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View Full Version : New Orleans Repeats Mistakes as It Rebuilds



Diddle E Squat
01-05-2007, 02:22 AM
Many Houses Built in Areas Katrina Flooded Are Not on Raised Foundations

By Peter Whoriskey
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, January 4, 2007

NEW ORLEANS -- By ones and twos, homeowners here are reinhabiting neighborhoods, even the most devastated ones, and many view their return as a triumph over adversity.

But experts involved in the rebuilding believe that the helter-skelter return of residents to this low-lying metropolis may represent another potential disaster.

After Katrina, teams of planners recommended that broad swaths of vulnerable neighborhoods be abandoned. Yet all areas of the city have at least some residents beginning to rebuild. With billions of dollars in federal relief for homeowners trickling in, more people are expected to follow.

Moreover, while new federal guidelines call for raising houses to reduce the damage of future floods, most returning homeowners do not have to comply or are finding ways around the costly requirement, according to city officials.

"It's terrifying: We're doing the same things we have in the past but expecting different results," said Robert G. Bea, a professor of civil engineering at the University of California at Berkeley and a former New Orleans resident who served as a member of the National Science Foundation panel that studied the city's levees.

"There are areas where it doesn't make any sense to rebuild -- they got 20 feet of water in Katrina," said Tom Murphy, a former Pittsburgh mayor who served on an Urban Land Institute panel for post-Katrina planning. "In those places, nature is talking to us, and we ought to be listening. I don't think we are."...




...A few blocks over, Vincent Gangi, 54, a real estate broker, is restoring a large brick house adorned with Greek-revival statues.

"I just don't think it's going to happen again -- something like Katrina happens only once in a hundred years," he said. "By that time, I'll be dead."...




...In the fall of 2005, planners from the Urban Land Institute, working with the city's Bring New Orleans Back Commission, recommended that large sections of Lakeview, Gentilly, New Orleans East and the Lower Ninth Ward be abandoned, at least temporarily. The panel called for the government to purchase homes at pre-Katrina prices.

There were two reasons for the planners' proposals. First, the levees had proved catastrophically fallible. Even now, they are not guaranteed to stand during the strongest hurricanes. Moreover, the wetlands that once protected the city from storm surges continue to erode, and hurricane experts, including Max Mayfield, the outgoing director or the National Hurricane Center, have repeatedly warned that many homeowners are taking on unacceptable risks in U.S. coastal areas.

Second, it seemed likely that New Orleans's post-Katrina population was destined to be smaller. It made sense to consolidate neighborhoods, planners said, to prevent blight from overtaking sparsely populated, partially abandoned areas.

"What we said was that, in the areas that had gotten 10 feet of water, don't commit to rebuilding anything yet, because it probably won't happen anyway," said Joseph Brown, head of the urban design panel at the Urban Land Institute.

But Nagin, who was hearing complaints that shrinking the city's footprint was unfair, particularly to African Americans, rejected the idea. Everyone should be able to return to their homes, he said...




For all of the article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/03/AR2007010301593.html


http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2007/01/03/PH2007010302007.jpg

bryson662001
01-05-2007, 03:06 AM
I have seen houses on the outer banks of North Carolina and also in the NJ beach towns that have all the living space on the 2nd and 3rd floors with only garage and storage space on the ground level. Maybe this style is too expensive to be widly used in NO.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k50/bryson662001/medium_42367.jpg

HurricaneHugo
01-05-2007, 07:47 AM
I like how that picture only has Mexican workers. :lol:

Grateful Denver
01-05-2007, 08:15 AM
most older buildings in NO are built that way, and mexican construction workers have overun the city

bryson662001
01-05-2007, 12:08 PM
most older buildings in NO are built that way, and mexican construction workers have overun the city
A few (houses, not workers) here and there but the vast majority are built after 1950 on slabs at ground level. That little house on concrete blocks isn't high enough anyway.

Trantor
01-05-2007, 01:07 PM
build in brick and reinforced concrete! Its not like if americans had no money for it. Even in Brazil, middle class housea re reinforced concrete and bricks! They wont float away in a flood...

MayorOfChicago
01-05-2007, 02:17 PM
build in brick and reinforced concrete! Its not like if americans had no money for it. Even in Brazil, middle class housea re reinforced concrete and bricks! They wont float away in a flood...

Americans and their structures are only as rich as the people who are living in an area. New Orleans city wasn't the richest place to begin with, and with housing prices the way they are - you're probably not going to get the most fancy, well built designs right now.

I think the city is actually slowly losing a lot of its more wealthy citizens and professionals.

bryson662001
01-05-2007, 06:43 PM
After more reflection, it seems totally unreasonable to expect that returning residents would be able to redesign and build their houses to this new standard, as the article suggests they should. After all many didn't even have flood insurance to help. Maybe this is a good place for government to step in with some kind of monitary incentive to encourage and make possible new design.

mikeelm
01-05-2007, 11:13 PM
I can't help but acknoweledge Mr. Gangi and his stupid comment. Was he not in N.O. in the 60's when they had those 2 big ones?

If there's certain areas that are not as safe, than go elsewhere in town.

AZheat
01-05-2007, 11:26 PM
None of this even addresses the fundamental problem that areas of NO are sinking and none of these changes in building design are going to change that. The sinking of coastal areas makes matters even worse because a future hurricane will be that much more powerful when it strikes the city. I think it's a mistake to even rebuild at all in certain vulnerable areas because it's doomed to fail at some point in the future and then we'll have another costly disaster that we can't afford to deal with.

passdoubt
01-06-2007, 12:39 AM
build in brick and reinforced concrete! Its not like if americans had no money for it. Even in Brazil, middle class housea re reinforced concrete and bricks! They wont float away in a flood...
Americans have money, meaning that our labor costs are higher.

BTinSF
01-06-2007, 01:38 AM
I have seen houses on the outer banks of North Carolina and also in the NJ beach towns that have all the living space on the 2nd and 3rd floors with only garage and storage space on the ground level. Maybe this style is too expensive to be widly used in NO.



This is pretty standard construction for the barrier island beach resorts all along the East Coast. Of interest may be that I have seen some of these houses after a hurricane or major storm. With the sand washed out from under them, they sit way up in the air on their pilings with what was the first floor garage hanging down below--also up in the air.

It may surprise some to know that a similar design is quite common in San Francisco houses. They are built with a first floor garage and one, two or, sometimes, even three floors of living space above. Of course this design has proved a little problematic in earthquake country because the first floor garage with no interior walls is considered "soft" and prone to seismic failure unless it is reinforced.

BTinSF
01-06-2007, 01:42 AM
build in brick and reinforced concrete! Its not like if americans had no money for it. Even in Brazil, middle class housea re reinforced concrete and bricks! They wont float away in a flood...

Can you get sued for having "mold" in Brazil? I think the building standards and easthetics are quite different between the two countries. When a house gets flooded in America, having the exterior walls remain standing really doesn't help much. It still generally needs to be gutted with everything inside replaced and that can cost as much as an entirely new house.

Policy Wonk
01-06-2007, 05:07 AM
I have seen houses on the outer banks of North Carolina and also in the NJ beach towns that have all the living space on the 2nd and 3rd floors with only garage and storage space on the ground level. Maybe this style is too expensive to be widly used in NO.

I wouldn't really call it a "ground floor" - its really just covering up the stilts and the walls aren't anchored and are designed to break away opening the space under the house in the event of flooding reducing the pressure on the actual house.

jcchii
01-06-2007, 02:14 PM
it does seem to be misguided, but probably the economics of it make sense to these people or they wouldn't be doing it

Capt AWACS
01-06-2007, 10:58 PM
Not surprised. My last year and half as an undergrad in Geography I worked as a flood zone certifier for Fidelity National Flood Inc (when they still had the Austin office a division of Fidelity National Title) and I certified properties, plats, and land on whether they were in a 100, 500 or no flood plain. Under US/FEMA rules you cannot build a new property in Zone A 100 year flood plain but I saw developers that do. They skirt rules, cheat, use fake plats or metes and bounds. Mississippi was one of my states and we basically had all the new properties along the coast in a zone thus requiring flood insurance for folks. Sadly not all complied or tried to get surveyors or engineers to issue fake "elevation" reports telling us and the feds they were out of the zone.

Again it is happening. Why? It is cheaper than fixing the problem.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Pissing off forumers since 1999

AZheat
01-06-2007, 11:25 PM
CaptAWACS,
That's an interesting bit of information on the topic. If a developer does manage to fake an elevation or somehow make a project seem legitimate how does that affect the insurance on those properties? You would think that the insurance companies would be doing a little research on their own rather than trust the word of developers who are trying to make money from a project. I guess this doesn't surprise me either but after we've been through this Katrina disaster you'd think we'd be more careful in the future. Do you think that the New Orleans sinking land problem is even something we can fix or is it even possible?

Capt AWACS
01-07-2007, 10:07 AM
Because the feds mandate the insurance and rate charts for 100 year flood plains as part of FEMA, that is how developers do it-they are not private insurers. Sidenote-It is only the structure that requires the insurance not the contents. So developers get cheap flood plain land then build new houses which technically is against the law . I had to certify whole new subdivisions in coastal Mississippi (and suburban Memphis) that we new would get washed out one day but according to the legally filed elevation plats the house it self showed out of the zone. That did not mean the developer or homeowner had to actually pay and have the house elevated...sometimes they forgot.

Old houses too would get shafted. Anytime a property is even refi'd in the US the lot has to be checked for the flood plain. Some old home owners would get there old homes exempted somehow through cheap engineer filings with the city but then come the flood "Oh why Oh why where is my federal money even when they declined the insurance"...

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, I hate everyone equally



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