[Shodan]

Here we go again........:shrug:

Alberta brags bad-boy attitude
Politicians promise national shakeup

Jason Fekete
CanWest News Service; Calgary Herald

Saturday, January 06, 2007

CALGARY -- Alberta is "the bad boy" of Confederation and will fight for its own rights as a nation, including a provincial immigration program and equitable treatment in Canada, the province's Intergovernmental Relations Minister Guy Boutilier said Friday.

His comments come as a leading expert on the so-called fiscal imbalance says Ottawa will likely release a framework to solve the federal/provincial funding feud by as early as February in the federal budget.

Boutilier's remarks also follow Alberta's new Premier Ed Stelmach's assertions in December that Alberta is its own distinct entity and will battle for the same rights as a Quebec nation.

They also indicate the Alberta government will stir things up on the national scene over the inter-provincial struggle for a new equalization formula and whether non-renewable resource revenues should be factored into the equation.

Boutilier said it's obvious Alberta is a "powerhouse" driving the national economy, and it's not afraid to ruffle some feathers as it fights for a fair deal with the provinces and Ottawa.

"We're kind of the bad boys of Confederation," Boutilier said. "What Albertans understand is this: they contribute immensely to this country of ours, but also we want to be able to benefit from it."

But Paul Boothe, an economics professor at the University of Alberta who recently helped oversee the equalization program for Ottawa, said the province is already reaping the rewards of its place in Canada.

Many of the workers who are driving the Alberta economy come from other provinces and have had their educations funded partially by federal equalization dollars paid to those jurisdictions to fund social programs.

"Confederation is working well for Alberta," Boothe said. "I'm not interested in Alberta being a bad boy. I'm interested in Alberta being a leader."

Yet, Boutilier said Alberta and other provinces and territories are owed the same rights associated with the Quebec nation, a distinction recently approved by the House of Commons.

"Each province is a nation within a nation," he said.

What exactly that title means is open for interpretation, Boutilier noted.

However, for Alberta, he said it could be a recognition that it deserves more immigration powers to address the mounting labour crunch, and that the federal government solve a fiscal imbalance that some provinces claim sees Ottawa collecting more tax revenue than necessary.

Albertans send $29 billion a year to Ottawa in federal taxes, but only receive back $17 billion in programs and services, according to the provincial government.

Critical for provinces like Alberta and Ontario, Boothe noted, is that the federal government move to per-capita health and social transfers. The current deal factors in tax points, which erode federal transfers sent to richer jurisdictions.

Provinces also are fighting amongst each other and with Ottawa over the makeup of a new federal equalization formula. The program, which is paid for through federal taxation collected across Canada, allocates cash to "have-not" provinces in order to provide comparable levels of services at similar levels of taxation.

A handful of reports have been published recently by the provinces and a federal expert panel on how to calculate the equalization formula. A major sticking point among premiers is whether non-renewable resource revenues should be factored into the formula, with Alberta and Saskatchewan some of the provinces fiercely against it.

Including resource revenues wouldn't affect provincial coffers, but would increase the equalization dollar pool funded by federal taxes.

With provinces unable to reach any sort of agreement on a formula, Boothe said it's likely Prime Minister Stephen Harper will unveil his own plan for the fiscal imbalance in a federal budget that could be released as soon as next month.

"If they can't reach consensus, what's the federal government to do?"he asked. "They've got to move ahead."

Calgary Herald
© CanWest News Service 2007

[240glt]

A bad boy attitude ? More like a spoiled rich kid attitude. :rolleyes:

[freeweed]

Please, for the love of everything that's holy, let this thread disappear before we get 2000 posts whining about "OMG ALBERTA EGO".

[feepa]

Please, for the love of everything that's holy, let this thread disappear before we get 2000 posts whining about "OMG ALBERTA EGO".

Seems like every region in Canada represented on these forums has its own ego, why should Alberta shut up?

[Claeren]

A bad boy attitude ? More like a spoiled rich kid attitude. :rolleyes:

Every Albertan sends ~$4000/year to the rest of Canada.

A family of 4 would be $16,000/YEAR better off outside of Canada then inside Canada.

That is a LOT of money. Would Quebec send that much money to us if fortune was reversed? Would any province NOT question things if THEY were the ones giving and not recieving to such an unfathomable degree?

(Also note that Alberta receives by FAR the least amount/capita in other direct federal spending (not transfers) like GST centre's, income tax processing, the arts, other gov job creators, etc).



I prefer Alberta inside Canada versus outside, but only an idiot would not stick up for themselves within that confederation. Anyone who complains that Alberta is spoiled and should shut-up is being as self serving and greedy as an Albertan complaining about giving the money in the first place...




Claeren.

[vid]

What about Northern Ontario? They ALWAYS forget Northern Ontario! We're whiny too!! Give us some air time!!!!!!

:rolleyes:

[Bassic Lab]

I really wonder what this new cabinet is thinking, are they really this stupid or will the electorate fall for it. They could try being an effective and responsible government, maybe they could even sit in the legislature occasionally, but no thats to hard, so they decide to bitch about the Ottawa bogeyman. Sometimes I really hate this province. Do they really think Alberta represents any definition of nation?

[feepa]

I really wonder what this new cabinet is thinking, are they really this stupid or will the electorate fall for it. They could try being an effective and responsible government, maybe they could even sit in the legislature occasionally, but no thats to hard, so they decide to bitch about the Ottawa bogeyman. Sometimes I really hate this province. Do they really think Alberta represents any definition of nation?
I think Alberta represents the definition of a nation as much as any other province in Canada would fit that definition.

[Xelebes]

I didn't bother reading the article past the first sentence. What absolute nonsense - it's as if it is meant to have everybody sic on us by means of creating something preposterous as an NEP or something.

[Smron]

"We're kind of the bad boys of Confederation," Boutilier said. "What Albertans understand is this: they contribute immensely to this country of ours, but also we want to be able to benefit from it."

Yes... contribute immensely..... to our greenhouse gas emissions.

[jeffwhit]

Well, I hope all you Stelmach cheerleaders are pleased with yourselves. This kind of talk is embarrassing.

[Canadian Mind]

I believe Alberta is giving far more than their fair share, and they know it. At the same time though, they were supported by the country for the first 75 years of their existance.

Its time to pay up, it will be over soon enough. besides, yuo guys already have more money than what you know what to do with it.

[Bassic Lab]

I think Alberta represents the definition of a nation as much as any other province in Canada would fit that definition.

Which definition of nation would that be? While your at it explain how Alberta can be described that way more effectively than the first nations (with Nunuvut representing a province/terratory with an Inuit majority), Quebec, or Newfoundland and Labrador? You might be able to do it, the idea of nationhood is very fluid and means different things to different people, I've just never met someone with a definition similiar to what I imagine yours is.

[Boris2k7]

Which definition of nation would that be? While your at it explain how Alberta can be described that way more effectively than the first nations (with Nunuvut representing a province/terratory with an Inuit majority), Quebec, or Newfoundland and Labrador? You might be able to do it, the idea of nationhood is very fluid and means different things to different people, I've just never met someone with a definition similiar to what I imagine yours is.

On the other hand, maybe you could explain how a multicultural and multilingual Canada can be described more effectively as a nation than Alberta, Quebec, or the first nations...

Honestly, it's all relative... and hardly relevant anymore in a time of globalization. Provincial and National boundaries become less relevant by the year. Just look at the EU for an example of this.

[Bassic Lab]

On the other hand, maybe you could explain how a multicultural and multilingual Canada can be described more effectively as a nation than Alberta, Quebec, or the first nations...

Honestly, it's all relative... and hardly relevant anymore in a time of globalization. Provincial and National boundaries become less relevant by the year. Just look at the EU for an example of this.

Well, I never said any thing about Canada, but okay. Canadian nationhood is quite different, we are not a very effective example of a classic nation-state. Many, particularly Quebec seperatists, would argue that Canada is not a nation. I disagree, our nationhood is simply based less on ethnic lines, that said we still have national myths that unite atleast some people from all of the various ethnic groups contained within. These differ from person to person. Many see multiculturalism as one such Canadianism, representing tolerance for diversity. Healthcare is another, representing for many a Canadian belief in a form of equality. Some might look at our military tradition; either the elite nature of our forces that initially caused English Canadian troops to develop a seperate identity from the previous British one felt by themselves and the people at home, or else the more recent development of UN Peace Keeping, representing all that it does. The RCMP are yet another, their history symbolizing a rejection of the American "wild west". There are many other things that unite people in this country in a sense of pride, together they form the core of Canadian national identity.

Nationalism is very relevant. Feeling some form of identity, be it tribal, cultural, linguistic, ethnic, religious, class, or national (which often incorporates most, if not all, of the others), is human nature. It has always driven human interaction, any Star Trek like notions of it's ceasure are the height of niavete. This is not a good thing, it causes war, genocide, hate, racism, religious strife and more, but it sure to hell is relevant and no trade zone will make it less so. How does the old Beduin saying go, something like "I against my brother, my brother and I against my neighbor, my village against the next, my tribe against the world". That is humanity, right there.

[Daver]

I really wonder what this new cabinet is thinking, are they really this stupid or will the electorate fall for it. They could try being an effective and responsible government, maybe they could even sit in the legislature occasionally, but no thats to hard, so they decide to bitch about the Ottawa bogeyman. Sometimes I really hate this province. Do they really think Alberta represents any definition of nation?

Any province in the confederation fully has the right to become it's own independent nation under the constitution. The provinces , is where all the nations' power lies...not on the federal level. Our constitution gave the provinces full rights and powers even over Ottawa and as a group of powers unitied make up what we call Canada. The federal government's role was only to represent the united provincial bodies and defend them in times of war, all other departments and ministries fall under provincal juristiction. Some how over the years the provinces forgot to fight for thier powers while Ottawa slowly took them over illegally.

[rk2000]

I know that at the present moment Alberta contributes far more federally than most others, but to be honest, that's how federations work. It was afterall federal government that invested a lot of money in the oil sands in the 1960s.

The very immigrants who come to Alberta and who have helped its economy over many generations usually come because of Canada. Look at almost half of the small and medium sized businesses, from ColdFx, Matrikon, Wilan, Acrodex, Upside Software, etc. in Alberta and the people who have put them together are first or at most second generation Canadians and trust me, none of them came here because of Grand old Alberta! It's hard to put a dollar figure on the value that Alberta gets from being part of this amazing confederation called Canada and it's a weak attempt by visionless politician to always blame Ottawa for their lack of competence.

[Bassic Lab]

Any province in the confederation fully has the right to become it's own independent nation under the constitution. The provinces , is where all the nations' power lies...not on the federal level. Our constitution gave the provinces full rights and powers even over Ottawa and as a group of powers unitied make up what we call Canada. The federal government's role was only to represent the united provincial bodies and defend them in times of war, all other departments and ministries fall under provincal juristiction. Some how over the years the provinces forgot to fight for thier powers while Ottawa slowly took them over illegally.

Umm, no, try reading the document. The constitution of which you are refering never existed. The Federal government has a number of powers clearly outlined in the document and constitutionally receives what was not.. The BNA act was crafted to give Canada a stronger central government than that of the US, at a time some fifty years after your notion of our constitution lost the arguement in that country. Canada was to be a strong centrally administered country, where the provinces were given powers over only those things that would cause dispute at the federal level.

So called federal intrusions into provincial matters are typically just Ottawa helping some one to pay the bills and telling them that if they want the help they have to do it a certain way, hardly trampling over provincial rights.

[Doug]

I know that at the present moment Alberta contributes far more federally than most others, but to be honest, that's how federations work. It was afterall federal government that invested a lot of money in the oil sands in the 1960s.

Wrong. Sun Oil of Philadelphia pioneered oilsands extraction in the 60's using a process created by a British engineer (father of Bob Blair, the one time CEO of Nova Corporation). The original plant, then known as Great Canadian Oil Sands, is still in operation today as Suncor, which was spunoff from Sun Oil in the early 90's. Syncrude was the second plant. It opened in the late 70's. The governments of Ontario and Canada became minority shareholders after the Federal government restricted FDI in the energy industry to appease the NDP which sustained the minority Trudeau government after the 1972 election. Both governments sold there interests in the 90's at considerable profit.

American capital pioneered development of the energy industry. The Federal government and St. James/Bay Street completely missed the boat and have been usining political influence to gain interest ever since. That is the primary reason for Alberta angst everytime eastern powerbrokers take notice of the wealth of the province's energy endowment. Only the paranoid survive.

[Claeren]

American capital pioneered development of the energy industry. The Federal government and St. James/Bay Street completely missed the boat and have been usining political influence to gain interest ever since. That is the primary reason for Alberta angst everytime eastern powerbrokers take notice of the wealth of the province's energy endowment. Only the paranoid survive.


Exactly. (Especially if you expand 'American Capital' to include the broader concept of 'free capital' as opposed to the monopolistic schemes the East has tried to impose over the years.)

This is also where the pain from the NEP came. Easterners love to point out that the NEP ended up costing Alberta very little directly because oil prices collapsed and the price floor was above the market price. What they fail to recognize is that Alberta's energy industry took ~20 years to recover as a safe place for foreign (and even domestic) investment capital to move. Even today foreign articles are phrased as if Alberta's energy industry is just now opening up to true foreign investment - and that is not some accident, it is because there is some truth to the matter.

For far too long investors had to sit on egg shells terrified that at any moment, at the whim of a biased Eastern government, their investment value could be whipped out by some new silly government 'equalization program/NEP.'



Claeren.

[LordMandeep]

That nice, Ontario says the same thing and the rest of the country call us whiny spoiled brats..

Anyways Canada is a nation but i never feel much pride for it from me or from other people apart from HOCKEY....

Really people talk about how other ethnic groups don't acept the Canadian culture. However i am born and raised here, there isn't really that much of a Canadian culture. Most of it is the American culture. Really who know a thing about hockey and politics and who know English and imo you are part of Canadian culture.

[freeweed]

Really people talk about how other ethnic groups don't acept the Canadian culture. However i am born and raised here, there isn't really that much of a Canadian culture. Most of it is the American culture. Really who know a thing about hockey and politics and who know English and imo you are part of Canadian culture.

You know, I've never understood this Canadian attitude of "we don't have a culture". We have our own history, our own foods, our own famous people, our own sports, our own music, our own television, our own literature, our own theatre, our own film industry...

Just because you personally might only eat at McDonald's, and watch 24, does not invalidate Canadian culture for the rest of us. Poutine and tortiere for the win! Try visting Banff sometime - show me ANYWHERE in the USA, or Europe for that matter, that has such intentional pristine wilderness. This is part of our culture. In the US they just pave over everything and drill tunnels through everything else. Here, we try to retain some of what makes this country unique. In Europe, it's been bombed out a dozen times already.

What's funny is in these discussions of "nations" within Canada, people fail to realize that EVERY country is like this. Take the US - you REALLY think that people in NYC and people in rural Texas have much in common, other than the country they live in? They're ALL "distinct nations/societies". Hell, check out the UK sometime - these people have been united as a single nation for centuries, and yet you can have 2 towns separated by a mere 20km that think the others are foreigners.

Canada's about as cohesive a culture as any on Earth, short of forced integration like in a dictatorship. You only have to visit the US to realize just how much of your life is uniquely "Canadian".

[rk2000]

Not that Wiki is the gospel, but reading this ain't too bad either:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_petroleum_industry_in_Canada,_part_two

AS noted, as early as 1940s or even 1890s, the Feds were invovled in the process. And although I can't find the links right now, Diefenbaker also made contributions to this process as well.

[spiritedenergy]

You know, I've never understood this Canadian attitude of "we don't have a culture". We have our own history, our own foods, our own famous people, our own sports, our own music, our own television, our own literature, our own theatre, our own film industry...

Just because you personally might only eat at McDonald's, and watch 24, does not invalidate Canadian culture for the rest of us. Poutine and tortiere for the win! Try visting Banff sometime - show me ANYWHERE in the USA, or Europe for that matter, that has such intentional pristine wilderness. This is part of our culture. In the US they just pave over everything and drill tunnels through everything else. Here, we try to retain some of what makes this country unique. In Europe, it's been bombed out a dozen times already.

What's funny is in these discussions of "nations" within Canada, people fail to realize that EVERY country is like this. Take the US - you REALLY think that people in NYC and people in rural Texas have much in common, other than the country they live in? They're ALL "distinct nations/societies". Hell, check out the UK sometime - these people have been united as a single nation for centuries, and yet you can have 2 towns separated by a mere 20km that think the others are foreigners.

Canada's about as cohesive a culture as any on Earth, short of forced integration like in a dictatorship. You only have to visit the US to realize just how much of your life is uniquely "Canadian".

well, i can't really think about something that's truly and uniquely canadian... Tim Hortons maybe? With their nicotene coffe? It's better not. :D
It's true that people here love outdoors, but probably just because they live close to them. The true culture of Canada is inuit and native, the one that is actually on the edge of collapse.

[raggedy13]

I don't know why people so often say our culture is just American culture with an emphasis on hockey. The minute you step into the US you can feel it in the air that you're not in Canada. Perhaps what defines Canadian culture cannot really be described by Canadians because you have to step out of the culture in which you live in order to properly observe it. I have quite a few American friends that I met living in residence at UBC and they agreed that living in Canada was somewhat of a culture shock for them. Granted, there are many similarities between the two countries but in the end it's the little things that matter most.

[big W]

I believe Alberta is giving far more than their fair share, and they know it. At the same time though, they were supported by the country for the first 75 years of their existance.

Its time to pay up, it will be over soon enough. besides, yuo guys already have more money than what you know what to do with it.

Alberta did not recieve equalization in 1980 so it was not the first 75 years.

More like the first 50 when Alberta was a have not province but back then there was no equalization. Not to mention the total population of Alberta was significantly smaller portion of the national population.

[Arriviste]

I am in a minority within Canada. I could take confederation or leave it. I feel immense pride in the diversity of the country, and its people yet would be all for a looser alliance with "Canada" if it proved to be VERY lucrative for Alberta.
I would be saddened by the break up Canada whether it be Quebec or Alberta deciding to break from confederation, but I'm sure I'd be over it within a few months. Especially if Alberta flourished. However political instability is never good for the economy, so in reality I can't see seperation ever being justifiably beneficent.
AS a side note, I felt much more "Canadian" or at least attached to the notion of Canadiana when I spent a few years in Ottawa.

[newflyer]

One thing is for sure.. there is a significant disconnection of perception of how Albertains see themselves and how much of eastern Canada sees them.

Alberta sees themselves like this:

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/5026/samxa5.png


How eastern Canada views Alberta:

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/3060/elmertt6.png

[Arriviste]

And how we see the east:

http://web.media.mit.edu/~hongma/Montreal_Jazz/Tim_Hortons.jpg

[Claeren]

And how we see the east:

http://web.media.mit.edu/~hongma/Montreal_Jazz/Tim_Hortons.jpg



But isn't Winnipeg more 'Central' then 'East'?


:haha:

;)


Claeren.

[Jay in Cowtown]

I have quite a few American friends that I met living in residence at UBC and they agreed that living in Canada was somewhat of a culture shock for them. Granted, there are many similarities between the two countries but in the end it's the little things that matter most.

Living in B.C. would be a culture shock for the rest of Canada, let alone Americans.

[Arriviste]

But isn't Winnipeg more 'Central' then 'East'?


:haha:

;)


Claeren.

Your postulation is astute.;)

[freeweed]

well, i can't really think about something that's truly and uniquely canadian... Tim Hortons maybe? With their nicotene coffe? It's better not. :D

Well, you don't try very hard then.

A basic guide to Canadian culture. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_culture)

You can boil any country's culture down to a couple of "joke" elements - Italy? What do they have other than pasta and a building that doesn't stand up straight! France? Nothing but cheese and military occupation! USA? Baseball and stupid action movies!

For a perfect (and stereotypical) example of Canadian culture, watch Hockey Day in Canada next Saturday. You'll see people from coast-to-coast, following traditions unique to this country. If you actually think for a second, you'll pick up that it's more than just hockey, too. One of my favourite Canadian things to watch, actually. Take the hockey out entirely and you still get a good idea what it means to be "Canadian".

[newflyer]

And how we see the east:

http://web.media.mit.edu/~hongma/Montreal_Jazz/Tim_Hortons.jpg

.... some jerk barking orders at us? :rolleyes:

"Thats not how you make dounuts .. you gas monkey!!"

[Smron]

Interesting... I was thinking more of something like this...

This is how Alberta views itself...

http://www.packageyourexpertiseforprofit.com/Man%20counting%20money.jpg

This is how the rest of the country views Alberta...

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2006/01/25/brokeback_2601_wideweb__470x314,0.jpg

[newflyer]

Interesting... I was thinking more of something like this...

This is how Alberta views itself...

http://www.packageyourexpertiseforprofit.com/Man%20counting%20money.jpg

This is how the rest of the country views Alberta...

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2006/01/25/brokeback_2601_wideweb__470x314,0.jpg

:jester: :jester: :jester: :jester: :jester: :jester:

:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

Just because we were the location of a film about gay cowboys??? :rainbow:

:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

[dubiousmike]

This is how the rest of the country views Alberta...


Nah, I think it's more like this:

http://www.prosoundweb.com/fun/Photofun/76-head_up_ass.jpg

:whip:

[newflyer]

How Calgary sees itself..

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/8476/jrewinguo9.jpg


How Toronto sees Calgary..

http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/1469/clownij5.jpg

That rubber chicken is hillarious!!

[newflyer]

Of course the rest of the country doesnt undrestand Calgary.

[newflyer]

Nah, I think it's more like this:

http://www.prosoundweb.com/fun/Photofun/76-head_up_ass.jpg

:whip:


Hmmmm I am sure the rest of the nation knows this guy better as Ralph.

[LordMandeep]

well you guys do have a point. When i went to New York for like a week, i had a nice fun trip.However when we finally were in Canada again i felt so happy and like i miss it. So yes i agree there is something special and unique here.

Of course the rest of the country doesnt undrestand Calgary.

Same could be said about Toronto...
I have yet to hear one person say, "we are the centre of the universe" and actually mean it. The funniest thing i saw, is some lady in Winnipeg of all places call Toronto a city that does not accept other people. Oh such hypocrisy!!!
Alberta is alright as there are a lot of people from the East there but people in BC have no idea what they are talking about, when it comes to Toronto or Ontario.

[Claeren]

I enjoyed listening to a property manager at a meeting last week in Calgary talking about buying bulk hydro. The half of the room born in Calgary had no idea what she was talking about and the half transplanted from Toronto didn't even bat an eye.

lol....


Claeren.

[spiritedenergy]

Well, you don't try very hard then.

A basic guide to Canadian culture. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_culture)

You can boil any country's culture down to a couple of "joke" elements - Italy? What do they have other than pasta and a building that doesn't stand up straight! France? Nothing but cheese and military occupation! USA? Baseball and stupid action movies!

you can't really compare Canada to France, Italy and USA! France and Italy, please let alone them, we made this world as you see it, everything you are come from us originally, and then some. USA, well I don't really like their culture, but it's undoubtedly a great culture, they are a machine of culture actually, from movies to music to way of life. Canada is just a mix of USA and UK cultures (French in Quebec), with a more liberistic approach (gay marriages, Trudeau chart, and so on), but nothing really unique, I'm sorry.:whip:
That's how canadian nation is build: everyone keeps their culture, and canadian-italians still call themselves italians, frenc canadians french, english-canadians english... It's really funny how many canadian stars are quick to claim their original natinality, too: Mary Pierce and Celine Dion took French citizenship, Nelly Furtado purtuguese if I'm not mistaken and so on...
It's like the true culture of Canada is the absence of its own culture, and that's not so bad actually.

[dubiousmike]

Beer and hockey.

And toques.

[vid]

You forgot the serviettes. :) We need them to keep our hands warm when we hold our beer. On the chesterfield. Watching hockey. Eating timbits and persians, all winter long.

Canada: The only country that defines itself by defining others.

[shreddog]

Beer and hockey.

And toques.
And, it appears, atrocious spelling and grammar!! Re. post #43.

[dubiousmike]

And, it appears, atrocious spelling and grammar!! Re. post #43.

Hey man, let alone him.

[Rusty van Reddick]

Living in B.C. would be a culture shock for the rest of Canada, let alone Americans.

Yeah, Kamloops would be a real culture shock for Americans.

Do you ever think before you post?

[LordMandeep]

Vancouver isn't any more diverse then Toronto.

[raisethehammer]

please do us all a favour and become your own nation (you're already a U.S. puppet). While you're at it, build a huge bubble over your province (nation) so the rest of us don't have to share your rotting air and cancer-filled waterways while you all go cash your 200 dollar cheques.
And by the way, don't come asking for help or money once the oil sands become more sand than oil. I'd suggest putting all your little government cheques in a safe somewhere for when you need them (although, by then you'll have your own national currency so maybe that's not such a good idea).

Your good friends in Ontario

[raggedy13]

^Who said that it was?

[Jay in Cowtown]

Yeah, Kamloops would be a real culture shock for Americans.

Do you ever think before you post?

Yup, you're right, Oh Wise One... I should have typed the Lower Mainland.

[dubiousmike]

Yeah, Kamloops would be a real culture shock for Americans.

Do you ever think before you post?

Oh, come on furry. You're far more insightful than this. Say something interesting.

[Arriviste]

please do us all a favour and become your own nation (you're already a U.S. puppet). While you're at it, build a huge bubble over your province (nation) so the rest of us don't have to share your rotting air and cancer-filled waterways while you all go cash your 200 dollar cheques.
And by the way, don't come asking for help or money once the oil sands become more sand than oil. I'd suggest putting all your little government cheques in a safe somewhere for when you need them (although, by then you'll have your own national currency so maybe that's not such a good idea).

Your good friends in Ontario

Wow, original post! Good on yah.

I hope you have the intellect to comprehend sarcasm, for you obviously lack the capacity for original thought.

[vid]

Do you ever think before you post?

It's constructive criticism like that that makes you a role model for the community! Gold star!

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/342/s432electroplatedgoldstid4.jpg

[Kevin_foster]

Quote - raisethehammer - "you're already a U.S. puppet"

So you're saying that your Car Factories are all making Canadian Cars??? Get over yourself man.

-----

Ok, I hate this nation within a nation talk.

FFS we're a country. Have some pride. Learn your culture, be a Canadian :P

One day I know this province will slow down, and we'll require the assistance of a stronger economy.

People forget - we didn't always used to be this rich, and one day (whether it be our grandkids' grandkids) we wont be rolling around in money like we are now. Take heed - were in this together as a country. It's greed like this that seems to cause almost every war/conflict in human history.

So stop being a thug and realize that were biting the hand that will feed us one day. Just because we have a stronger economy, it doesn't make us better people and/or entitled to separate from our country - isn't the first thing we try and teach our children, it is to play nice and share.

Sure the Oil is in our back yard, and we should get a little something extra from the fact - but for us to wrap our arms around the gold coins and pull it off the table is rediculous.

I'm sick and tired of the people of this province being the stereo-typical Albertan. PS I'm not a federalist nor a separatist, just sick and tired of the debate. It's like watching 4 year olds fight.

This doesn't go for my fellow Albertans either it goes for the Lot of you!

You know, I've never understood this Canadian attitude of "we don't have a culture". We have our own history, our own foods, our own famous people, our own sports, our own music, our own television, our own literature, our own theatre, our own film industry...

Just because you personally might only eat at McDonald's, and watch 24, does not invalidate Canadian culture for the rest of us. Poutine and tortiere for the win! Try visting Banff sometime - show me ANYWHERE in the USA, or Europe for that matter, that has such intentional pristine wilderness. This is part of our culture. In the US they just pave over everything and drill tunnels through everything else. Here, we try to retain some of what makes this country unique. In Europe, it's been bombed out a dozen times already.

What's funny is in these discussions of "nations" within Canada, people fail to realize that EVERY country is like this. Take the US - you REALLY think that people in NYC and people in rural Texas have much in common, other than the country they live in? They're ALL "distinct nations/societies". Hell, check out the UK sometime - these people have been united as a single nation for centuries, and yet you can have 2 towns separated by a mere 20km that think the others are foreigners.

Canada's about as cohesive a culture as any on Earth, short of forced integration like in a dictatorship. You only have to visit the US to realize just how much of your life is uniquely "Canadian".

Spot on. Well Said.

Some people have the deluded allusion that Alberta is run by Americans. I work with almost every facet of the oil and gas industry in my job, and can tell you that 99.99999999% of all clients are local small companies.

The only Americans in this province are the big names like Esso. Just like the East and GM/FORD/ETC. - the service side is completely and utterly Canadian. So go learn yourself something before making the Alberta/American comments.

[ScottFromCalgary]

please do us all a favour and become your own nation (you're already a U.S. puppet). While you're at it, build a huge bubble over your province (nation) so the rest of us don't have to share your rotting air and cancer-filled waterways while you all go cash your 200 dollar cheques.
And by the way, don't come asking for help or money once the oil sands become more sand than oil. I'd suggest putting all your little government cheques in a safe somewhere for when you need them (although, by then you'll have your own national currency so maybe that's not such a good idea).

Your good friends in Ontario

Actually they were $400 cheques...

:cheers:

[Lead]

If Alberta strategically uses the extra money they are getting from the oil boom now there is no reason that the "boom" couldn't continue but would come from other areas other than the oil industry.

[Hardhatdan]

please do us all a favour and become your own nation (you're already a U.S. puppet). While you're at it, build a huge bubble over your province (nation) so the rest of us don't have to share your rotting air and cancer-filled waterways while you all go cash your 200 dollar cheques.
And by the way, don't come asking for help or money once the oil sands become more sand than oil. I'd suggest putting all your little government cheques in a safe somewhere for when you need them (although, by then you'll have your own national currency so maybe that's not such a good idea).

Your good friends in Ontario
Ummm they were 400$ cheques okay...IGNORAMUS!

[dubiousmike]

Can we close this bad boy already?

And for that matter can we stop posting articles from the Calgary Herald or the Edmonton Journal?

There is absolutely nothing in either paper worth reading.

[Habanero]

please do us all a favour and become your own nation (you're already a U.S. puppet). While you're at it, build a huge bubble over your province (nation) so the rest of us don't have to share your rotting air and cancer-filled waterways while you all go cash your 200 dollar cheques.
And by the way, don't come asking for help or money once the oil sands become more sand than oil. I'd suggest putting all your little government cheques in a safe somewhere for when you need them (although, by then you'll have your own national currency so maybe that's not such a good idea).

Your good friends in Ontario

Do everyone in Ontario a favor and don't sign your posts 'Your good friends in Ontario'

You're an embarrassment to Ontario.

[Habanero]

Can we close this bad boy already?

And for that matter can we stop posting articles from the Calgary Herald or the Edmonton Journal?

There is absolutely nothing in either paper worth reading.

I'd love nothing more than to see these articles disappear, they're a waste of CPU Cycles.

[Habanero]

.

[itom 987]

This thread is done.