[m0nkyman]

I've been trying to figure out how to find out the densities of neighbourhoods, and how to figure out which are the densest. Setting aside what would constitute a neighbourhood, how would we go about getting the stats?

Cheers!

[alps]

I read somewhere that St. Jamestown in Toronto is the densest neighbourhood in Canada, I think it was on Wikipedia.

I guess, to find the stats, you could figure out the population and area of the neighbourhood in question, and work it out from there. In some cities, I think there are formal neighbourhood boundaries you could work with.

[squeezied]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_selected_cities_by_population_density

it only gives densities of 4 districts in canada, namely West End(20,068/km²), Vancouver; Le Plateau-Mont-Royal(13,096/km²), Montreal; St. James Town(40,000/km²), Toronto; Somerset Ward(5,923.1/km²), Ottawa.

[LordMandeep]

I heard Cityplace in Toronto will have near 15,000-20,000 living in it and i think the area is smaller then a sqaure km.

[DrJoe]

It is definitely St. Jamestown, I believe Cityplace is poised to pass it though.

[jeremy_haak]

If you have access to raw census data (university students should), you can calculate the density by enumeration area, which is the smallest area they release data for. The size varies, but it is often just a single apartment building. Data for census tracts are much more accessible, but may be larger than some neighbourhoods.

[SSLL]

I wonder what the Cityplace footprint is right now.

[Only The Lonely..]

I know the densest neighbourhood in Winnipeg is Osborne Village, it is roughly double the city average in terms of population density.

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/4332/canada45ob.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/54/143698301_9d27b3d01e.jpg?v=0
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/31/66393084_00a35937a4.jpg?v=0
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/26/66686854_1efced02ba.jpg?v=0

[MTL Lucas]

I don't know if it is officially segmented and measured, but one of (if not the)densest areas in Montreal is the "Concordia student ghetto" from Guy in the East to Atwater in the West and Sherbrooke in the North to R-L in the South(the western end of downtown Montreal).

I walk through it often on my way to Uni - it is full of apartment towers (10 - 25 floors) and town/rowhouses - it is much more tightly packed than the rest of the city. I recall hearing it was the densest area on the island, though I will have to search around for it.

[Sacamano]

Cityplace will be 50000 to 75000/m²

(or 9000 to 12000 persons in .18 square kilmetres)

and the neighbouring Fort York Neighbourhood will have similar densities on twice the land

[LordMandeep]

50000 people in a meter squared???

wow thats density man!! :jester:

[Xelebes]

I think the Oliver neighbourhood is the most densely populated neighbourhood in Edmonton. No idea what the numbers are but I heard they are comparable to Manhattan?

[francely57]

Cityplace will be 50000 to 75000/m²

50000 people in a meter squared???

wow thats density man!! :jester:

Ha, how many floors would you need to achieve that?!

[flar]

The area south and west of downtown Hamilton is quite dense

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/oddstuff/west-central-hamilton.jpg
(not my photo)

[SpongeG]

how come vancouver's west end keeps getting named one of the densest after new york city?

[ReginaGuy]

Ha, how many floors would you need to achieve that?!
well, if the floorplate of the building was 625 meters sq. (25m x 25m), you would have to have 31.25 million people living in the tower :haha:, so if you can manage to cram 40 people into each floor (each person would have like 150 sq ft lol), there would need to be about 780,000 floors :haha:

lets get building Toronto! :tup:

[squeezied]

how come vancouver's west end keeps getting named one of the densest after new york city?

well according to wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_selected_cities_by_population_density
manhattan (25,849/km²)
west end (20,068/km²)

i find it odd that they actually listed manhattan considering manhattan is much too big to be a neighbourhood or district. they should have put actual neighbourhoods or districts like midtown or lower east side or watever.

[Nouvellecosse]

^ Wow, according to your Wikipedia link, St. James town is the densest district in the western hemisphere!

I wonder how accurate that is though...

[Sacamano]

"50000 people in a meter squared???"

'k' sticks sometimes but you already knew that

[Kilgore Trout]

all of this is irrelevant unless you're working with census tract data. comparing the west end of vancouver to the plateau or st. jamestown is absurd because these are three very different neighbourhoods with vastly different land areas.

population data for census tracts can be found through statistics canada's e-stat program, which is available online if you're at school or a library or have access to a university VPN.

[big W]

can someone post the statscan numbers for some of the neighbourhoods listed. I am intrested in the numbers for Oliver here in Edmonton as thats my neighbourhood.

[murman]

I think the Oliver neighbourhood is the most densely populated neighbourhood in Edmonton. No idea what the numbers are but I heard they are comparable to Manhattan?

:haha:

[flar]

A rough estimate using 2001 census tract data for the North Durand neighbourhood in Hamilton is 15,000/km2. Not too bad. This is based on a population of 11,268 within the areas bounded by James, Aberdeen, Queen and King (less than 1 km2, I used .75km2). If someone could figure out the exact area, it would be a better estimate. Actually the southern part of these census tracts include the mansions of Durand and the north part some office buildings, so the density of the highrise neighbourhoods is actually higher.

I can't do this for other cities because I don't know them well enough.

[caltrane74]

St. Jamestown is dense but by Wikipedia's own records they list Central Havana at 47K per sq k.

So not the highest density in the western hemisphere. And I have to believe parts of brazil are far more dense than St. Jamestown.

[Kevin_foster]

:haha:

:haha: X 2

In all honesty, Edmonton has some dense area's but not even close to that of Manhatten.... whoever gave you that info is on something potent.

However -
Edmonton's newest $1,000,000,000 T.O.D named Century park will be quite dense - Estimated 5,000 residents on a 40 acre block- 100% Completion likely before 2014. Made up of 12 residential towers and a buncha' street level commercial and amenities (pool, bowling, lake in the middle, etc.). Nice to have a community where people don't need cars. :slob: Especially in a city like Edmonton :)

http://www.westbankcorp.com/images/century-full6.jpg

There are many areas in Edmonton like this, but not to this scale. I know West Edmonton Village houses about 3,000 people:
Picture: http://www.westedmontonvillage.com/065-buildings.jpg

Lastly, there is a new development proposal in South/Central Edmonton in an area called Strathern, which will be made up of 4 towers - 17-19 floors each. Probably will house another 3,500 residents...

[flar]

I explored the census tract data further and found land area, so officially the densest nieghbourhood in Hamilton is North Durand, with a density of 17,113/km2.

EDIT: I would guess that only Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver have census tracts with higher densities than this. Actually, I doubt many of the other cities in Canada have densities over 10,000/km2.

[feepa]

I explored the census tract data further and found land area, so officially the densest nieghbourhood in Hamilton is North Durand, with a density of 17,113/km2.

EDIT: I would guess that only Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver have census tracts with higher densities than this. Actually, I doubt many of the other cities in Canada have densities over 10,000/km2.

I wonder what the density of the Oliver neighborhood in Edmonton would be. I would think it would come close to 10,000/km2, though I could be wrong. I would hazard to bet that current this is the neighbourhood with highest density in Edmonton.

You can see the neighbourhood of Oliver and Grandin here in this picture, Its basically everything in this picture west of the CBD or for locals, everything west of 109st
http://www.globalairphotos.com/images/ab/edmonton/2006/edh2006_007.jpg

[MolsonExport]

According to what I read in Stats Canada, the densest census area is the small (and very old) town of Saint Lin, in Quebec.

[malek]

Link?

[flar]

I looked through a bunch of 2001 census tract data and found the densest census tract in each of the ten largest metros in Canada. Unfortunately I don't know the names of these neighbourhoods, only the census tract code. Someone else will have to figure out which neighbourhood is which. I'm already insane for looking through these numbers!


city tract population area(km2) density(per km2)

Toronto 0065.00 16,225 0.2 81125.00

Montreal 0065.01 6,095 0.1 60950.00

Vancouver 0060.02 5,753 0.2 28765.00

Quebec 0014.00 2,095 0.1 20950.00

Hamilton 0039.00 5,134 0.3 17113.33

Ottawa 0007.02 5,450 0.4 13625.00

Calgary 0045.00 6,931 0.6 11551.67

Winnipeg 0023.00 4,531 0.4 11327.50

Edmonton 0032.01 3,731 0.4 9327.50

London 0044.04 2,631 0.5 5262.00

[caltrane74]

Even London is joining the density party. Cool!!

[flar]

^^ I'm sure there are other cities with greater density than London, (like Halifax and Victoria). I just looked at data for the 10 largest CMAs. Also note these are census tracts, which are very small, so many of these tracts are only portions of actual neighbourhoods. A real analysis of density would take much more effort than this.

[flar]

double post

[feepa]

I looked through a bunch of 2001 census tract data and found the densest census tract in each of the ten largest metros in Canada. Unfortunately I don't know the names of these neighbourhoods, only the census tract code. Someone else will have to figure out which neighbourhood is which. I'm already insane for looking through these numbers!


city tract population area(km2) density(per km2)

Toronto 0065.00 16,225 0.2 81125.00

Montreal 0065.01 6,095 0.1 60950.00

Vancouver 0060.02 5,753 0.2 28765.00

Quebec 0014.00 2,095 0.1 20950.00

Hamilton 0039.00 5,134 0.3 17113.33

Ottawa 0007.02 5,450 0.4 13625.00

Calgary 0045.00 6,931 0.6 11551.67

Winnipeg 0023.00 4,531 0.4 11327.50

Edmonton 0032.01 3,731 0.4 9327.50

London 0044.04 2,631 0.5 5262.00

Is there a link to this? so someone else can look it up?

[flar]

I used Statistics Canada's estat site, which is only available to computers at libraries and universities (or through VPN as KT said earlier). You can select variables from the census and the site will compile the data into tables. I selected population and land area by census tract for each of the 10 largest metros, and then searched for the tracts with the highest density for each city.

This is the start page if you can access it:

http://www.statcan.ca/english/Estat/licence.htm

[204]

The clearest evidence of the changing realities of city building is the fact that downtown Vancouver has recently eclipsed Manhattan as North America’s highest density residential area.

archnewsnow.com (http://www.archnewsnow.com/features/Feature177.htm) Sept 2005

[m0nkyman]

http://www.statcan.ca/english/Estat/licence.htm

Irritating. I'm a Canadian citizen, but for some reason it's limited to students only. Why the fuck isn't that open to everyone?

[Kilgore Trout]

The clearest evidence of the changing realities of city building is the fact that downtown Vancouver has recently eclipsed Manhattan as North America’s highest density residential area.

archnewsnow.com (http://www.archnewsnow.com/features/Feature177.htm) Sept 2005

that's a completely nonsensical assertion. downtown vancouver covers a few square kilometres while manhattan covers a few dozen kilometres. you can't take the average density of such a small area and compare to the average density of such a large one.

if you compared a single chunk of manhattan comparable in size to vancouver's downtown peninsula (the upper east side, for instance), you would find it is significant denser than anything in vancouver.

[salvius]

that's a completely nonsensical assertion. downtown vancouver covers a few square kilometres while manhattan covers a few dozen kilometres. you can't take the average density of such a small area and compare to the average density of such a large one.

if you compared a single chunk of manhattan comparable in size to vancouver's downtown peninsula (the upper east side, for instance), you would find it is significant denser than anything in vancouver.

Pointing this out last time had a person accusing me of assholery, so I'd watch it :)

[francely57]

well, if the floorplate of the building was 625 meters sq. (25m x 25m), you would have to have 31.25 million people living in the tower :haha:, so if you can manage to cram 40 people into each floor (each person would have like 150 sq ft lol), there would need to be about 780,000 floors :haha:

lets get building Toronto! :tup:

Oh, in other words, we would have to cram the whole country into this thin Toronto building...
780,000 floors x 3,5 m = 2,730 km ! When this tower falls over it could destroy everything from Toronto to (deserted) Calgary/Edmonton.

(Hum, 2,730 km is quite a lot, even Pluto would easily fit under that height...)


By the way, after reading some posts, it seems like many Canadian cities are comparable to Manhattan :haha: !