[angevine001]

What is the consensus with what is happening with this SITQ/Matco/AIM project?

http://www.pennylanedevelopment.com/

http://www.pennylanedevelopment.com/images/diagram.jpg

[Bokimon]

Will go as planned whenever it gets clear of the delays and holdbacks since last month.

[Reesonov]

Will die a horrible painful death. I hope.

[YYCguys]

I like the concept, especially the lobby and the mezzanine levels, such as the restaurant areas and the indoor water features. Looks good from inside and out, but as I've said before, it sure would be nice to see at least the facade if not the building itself to be incorporated into the final design. Hopefully these delays are because of a redesign reflecting this.

[bob1954]

I hope it'll be one single tower a little taller than the original taller tower! They'll have plenty of time to develope the rest of the site for mixed-use or residential!

[Calgarian]

I think the developer was put to shame by tha calibre of the other proposals out right now and asked the architect to spice up the design. They will probably go for 60 and 50 storey towers now as well.

[Bigtime]

I hope it'll be one single tower a little taller than the original taller tower! They'll have plenty of time to develope the rest of the site for mixed-use or residential!

Voted ammended to one tower, integrate the facade or part of it into the design. Although a long shot I like Bob's idea of some mixed-use residential on the site as well.

[YYCguys]

Voted ammended to one tower, integrate the facade or part of it into the design. Although a long shot I like Bob's idea of some mixed-use residential on the site as well.

Indeed that would be a perfect location for residential! It's so central to everything!

[Coldrsx]

be built in Edmonton

[Calgarian]

be built in Edmonton

dream on

[Coldrsx]

^just saying that given its past, it seems as likely:>

[CorporateWhore]

be built in Edmonton

please, take it.

[Coldrsx]

^ok, but on one condition, stucco stucco stucco.

[vid]

I spent 6 hours drawing a stale proposal? :(

:P

[Doug]

I think the developer was put to shame by tha calibre of the other proposals out right now and asked the architect to spice up the design. They will probably go for 60 and 50 storey towers now as well.

I highly doubt that. In this market, a 40 story stucco box could lease for $40/sq ft. More likely, the cost escalated so much that the business case doesn't fly even with some of the highest rental rates in North America. The redesign is probably aimed to reduce construction cost.

[Bigtime]

I spent 6 hours drawing a stale proposal? :(

:P

You also did Centennial place though right? Those look great, perhaps Boris can hook you up with the images of Jamieson place and you can take a shot at that one. They have started demolishing the site.

[Boris2k7]

You also did Centennial place though right? Those look great, perhaps Boris can hook you up with the images of Jamieson place and you can take a shot at that one. They have started demolishing the site.

I put in a drawing request for it about a week or two ago. Still no responses...

[EastVanMark]

Nevermind the towers, the important question here is what will happen to Cowboys?:haha:

[tokama]

I really have no idea - but I like to vote - "makes me feel important - like a big man" (you have to do it with a Jimbo voice to get the right feel)

[Calgarian]

I think it will go ahead as they have spent far to much time ant money to let it slip through the cracks.

[vid]

I put in a drawing request for it about a week or two ago. Still no responses...

PM me the link, I have to go downtown in a couple minutes so I won't be able to look for it and don't want to forget. I'm getting into a drawing mood again!

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/8482/scmhappyhw3.png
^^
Map for a sim city town which I just recently completed

[RWin]

Will die a horrible painful death. I hope.

Thats what I think too. Only I hope not.

I think they (whoever they are) are afraid to just build it where others weren't. Their loss. Maybe its too late now.

[Habanero]

I think the developer was put to shame by tha calibre of the other proposals out right now and asked the architect to spice up the design. They will probably go for 60 and 50 storey towers now as well.

I'm betting on a redesign, but even cheaper and less exciting.

[Arriviste]

I hope God has realized that he was wrong by implanting such idiotic notions into the archietcts head, and is now righting them, by enlightening the poor sap. This divine intervention should result in a spectacular tower that represensts the greatness of the lord Jesus Christ. Thats what I would be thinking if I were a Christian right about now, but that theory is flawed for God would realize that PL is overwrought garbage, pretenuous, and disturbingly ugly already and that another even more grandios sturucture would be firlmy hipocritical. The deity would be more inclined toward the purity and morality of modernist principles over the gradeur preffered by the secular entity that claims to represent God.... I hope you guys likes my rant. I have been full of non sense liek this for months now, and should start getting it out mroe often


And I am agnostic for those of you wondering.

[Claeren]

The lead driver behind the project, from what i understand, is an older and deliberate player in the market.

He is in no rush.

He will wait for a big lead tenant and for the right time in the market cycle.


I think Penny Lane and City Centre (and even Aspen's Calgary Tower Testicles) all missed cycle and will have to wait it out... Could be 5 years could be 100.







Claeren.

[Wooster]

I realy hope what happens is that The current mall is retained, except it only really being retail facing 8th. The southern part being swallowed be a development that faces 9th ave. one tower residential, one commercial.

As far as cowboys goes, the best location in my opinion would be along the retail street that is proposed for Olympic Avenue in the north part of the stampede expansion. It would certainly help make the stampede grounds a year round attraction. A match made in heaven I think.

Also for Stampede grounds, have the Calgary Farmer's Market move there. Right across Olympic way from the Casino, hotel. Surround and incorporate other bars, restaurants and stores, similar to Byward Market in Ottawa. It could be a real destination. A farmer's market would also fit in with the agricultural focus of the Stampede.

Thoughts?

[Western Spaghetti]

I realy hope what happens is that The current mall is retained, except it only really being retail facing 8th. The southern part being swallowed be a development that faces 9th ave. one tower residential, one commercial.

As far as cowboys goes, the best location in my opinion would be along the retail street that is proposed for Olympic Avenue in the north part of the stampede expansion. It would certainly help make the stampede grounds a year round attraction. A match made in heaven I think.

Also for Stampede grounds, have the Calgary Farmer's Market move there. Right across Olympic way from the Casino, hotel. Surround and incorporate other bars, restaurants and stores, similar to Byward Market in Ottawa. It could be a real destination. A farmer's market would also fit in with the agricultural focus of the Stampede.

Thoughts?

All good points.

The farmers market really needs to come to a more central location. The one up in the currie barracks is a great market, but inaccessible without a car.

As for PLT. Yes, developing the lot that Cowboys is on, and keeping Penny Lane wouldn't hurt my feelings, and having one office /one residential would be bonus.

[Rob D]

I would like to see this turn into a one tower project with a redesign by a totally different architectural firm. We have more than enough Gibbs Gage projects downtown already. Time for some fresh ideas. Restart this project from scratch and retain the existing facade along Stephen Avenue at the very least.

[Rob D]

I realy hope what happens is that The current mall is retained, except it only really being retail facing 8th. The southern part being swallowed be a development that faces 9th ave. one tower residential, one commercial.

As far as cowboys goes, the best location in my opinion would be along the retail street that is proposed for Olympic Avenue in the north part of the stampede expansion. It would certainly help make the stampede grounds a year round attraction. A match made in heaven I think.

Also for Stampede grounds, have the Calgary Farmer's Market move there. Right across Olympic way from the Casino, hotel. Surround and incorporate other bars, restaurants and stores, similar to Byward Market in Ottawa. It could be a real destination. A farmer's market would also fit in with the agricultural focus of the Stampede.

Thoughts?

The Farmer's Market at the Currie Barracks is one of the best if not the best one in the city. It would be fantastic to see this market relocated to the expanded Stampede park.

The area around the Stampede grounds is going to be second to none as a shopping/recreation/cultural (are rodeos & hockey cultural :shrug: ) destination once it is complete. Three Arriva towers, Sasso, Vetro, two Nuera towers, Stampede Station office towers, Hotel Arts complex, two Union Square towers, Chocolate, Colours, the 3 towers at the Exchange, 3 towers at Keynote, etc. are going to literally recreate this entire area.

The relocation of the Victoria Park/Stampede LRT station to the other side of Macleod Trail and elimination of the Erlton LRT station (to facilitate the LRT going under 25th Avenue SW) will further integrate the Stampede grounds into the Beltline and allow 17th Avenue direct access into Stampede park. This in turn should help accelerate the much needed overhaul of the blocks of 17th Avenue SW from Macleod Trail to 2nd Street SW. The Red Mile should officially start at Stampede Park and not be interupted by two blocks of urban decay. The potential is almost unlimited and it will happen eventually.

Hopefully groups like the Calgary Urban Initiative (CUI) and the Beltline Planning Group can play a key role in guiding the redevelopment of the area. For those forumers possibly considering joining CUI, go ahead and sign up at the site below. We can and will make a significant and positive impact in future developments in urban Calgary.

Sign up now (you know you wanna!) :banana: www.calgaryurban.com (http://www.calgaryurban.com)

[Bokimon]

The lead driver behind the project, from what i understand, is an older and deliberate player in the market.

He is in no rush.

He will wait for a big lead tenant and for the right time in the market cycle.


I think Penny Lane and City Centre (and even Aspen's Calgary Tower Testicles) all missed cycle and will have to wait it out... Could be 5 years could be 100.
Claeren.


Actually I believe the cycle is not over yet. To aim for a target substantial completion date of late 2010 to early 2011, construction start of this year would be a must. At the latest the deadline for any start should be fall of this year or else the cycle will be missed.
All projects currently proposed or underway have a chance still. Even the Exchange if that can start work this year. The land is practically empty so no months spent on demo or deconstruction.

PLT still has a chance but to me the next window of opportunity would be either Spring or Summer of this year like when Encana is expected to start.
A redesign is probably unlikely except some modifications to the current one. Maybe enough modifications to make it look good perhaps is what I hope.
If a redesign can be done and all city approvals before this fall, then that would be a specacular pace of speed and I for one would be impressed at our development and planning departments.

I think ones like Centennial and Jamieson are in the best position to meet the 2010 goals. Livingston will of course be the first to open this year.

[Daver]

I hope God has realized that he was wrong by implanting such idiotic notions into the archietcts head, and is now righting them, by enlightening the poor sap. This divine intervention should result in a spectacular tower that represensts the greatness of the lord Jesus Christ. Thats what I would be thinking if I were a Christian right about now, but that theory is flawed for God would realize that PL is overwrought garbage, pretenuous, and disturbingly ugly already and that another even more grandios sturucture would be firlmy hipocritical. The deity would be more inclined toward the purity and morality of modernist principles over the gradeur preffered by the secular entity that claims to represent God.... I hope you guys likes my rant. I have been full of non sense liek this for months now, and should start getting it out mroe often


And I am agnostic for those of you wondering.

No...Actually, we don't care.

[vid]

You can always count on good ol' Davey to bring enlightenment to a thread! :tup:

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/1774/pennylanetowersscaledyg4.png

:hug:

[YYCguys]

The relocation of the Victoria Park/Stampede LRT station to the other side of Macleod Trail and elimination of the Erlton LRT station (to facilitate the LRT going under 25th Avenue SW) will further integrate the Stampede grounds into the Beltline and allow 17th Avenue direct access into Stampede park. This in turn should help accelerate the much needed overhaul of the blocks of 17th Avenue SW from Macleod Trail to 2nd Street SW.

Is this part of the plans for redevelopment of the Beltline or just part of a wish list? Why would the LRT need to go underground at 25th Ave?

[Rob D]

Is this part of the plans for redevelopment of the Beltline or just part of a wish list? Why would the LRT need to go underground at 25th Ave?

No, it is not a wish list. At a Beltline Planning Group meeting in November or December of last year there was a presentation regarding the Stampede Park expansion plans. A spokesperson from the Transportation Infrastructure department at the City of Calgary was there and the changes I mentioned in my previous post are all part of the plan. The only way that 17th Avenue SW can be brought into Stampede Park is by relocating the Victoria Park/Stampede LRT station. The Erlton station is in close proximity to the Victoria Park Stampede station and is very under utilized. The removal of the Erlton station will facilitate the extension of the LRT tunnel and help reduce traffic congestion at 25th Avenue SW and Macleod Trail.

Whether any of this actually happens or not I am not sure, but the plans are in place to do so.

[YYCguys]

No, it is not a wish list. At a Beltline Planning Group meeting in November or December of last year there was a presentation regarding the Stampede Park expansion plans. A spokesperson from the Transportation Infrastructure department at the City of Calgary was there and the changes I mentioned in my previous post are all part of the plan. The only way that 17th Avenue SW can be brought into Stampede Park is by relocating the Victoria Park/Stampede LRT station. The Erlton station is in close proximity to the Victoria Park Stampede station and is very under utilized. The removal of the Erlton station will facilitate the extension of the LRT tunnel and help reduce traffic congestion at 25th Avenue SW and Macleod Trail.

Whether any of this actually happens or not I am not sure, but the plans are in place to do so.

Thanks for the clarification! :)

[WHISTLERINMUSKOKA]

Hopefully a re-design will take place. They look like something dreamt up in the eighties. Other then that the scale is nice and will probably go ahead.

[Distill3d]

i hope they build it. i seriously do. it would be nice to see them incorporate both buildings into one and go head to head with The Bow for Calgary's tallest 9too much to wish for)

[Stephen Ave]

i hope they build it. i seriously do. it would be nice to see them incorporate both buildings into one and go head to head with The Bow for Calgary's tallest 9too much to wish for)

I'd like to see both office buildings combined into one 60 storey tower, with a 35 story residential tower beside it. Both towers, being on the south side of the block, leaving Penny Lane Mall to be.

[vid]

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/764/ggio2.png

:banana:

It's 368 metres tall!

[Arriviste]

No...Actually, we don't care.


Dear Resident SSP Hillbilly,

Thanks for your reply which added nothing to the conversation. At least I was having fun. Sorry for possibly making light of a magic zombie.

Sincerely
-Someone whom pities your ignorance and unhappiness.



Back to PL, I like what you've done vid. I can get behind that tower for sure. I bet if you situated it East West we could keep the existing Penny Lane!
A dream I'm sure it will always be, a 368m PL tower that is.

[vid]

Give me some time and I will re-texture one like that. :) Maybe tomorrow? We can add it to Calgary's diagram as a fantasy. :)

[Rob D]

Dear Resident SSP Hillbilly,

Thanks for your reply which added nothing to the conversation. At least I was having fun. Sorry for possibly making light of a magic zombie.

Sincerely
-Someone whom pities your ignorance and unhappiness.



Back to PL, I like what you've done vid. I can get behind that tower for sure. I bet if you situated it East West we could keep the existing Penny Lane!
A dream I'm sure it will always be, a 368m PL tower that is.

Drumheller, land of the living dinosaurs;)

[unibrain]

That penny lane block is an eyesore everytime I walk by. No hate on the 8th avenue side where the mall actually is, but damn, Cowboys and the BFI container next to it, the Mynt, the Belgo building, the tiny parking lot... it's all got to go. I'll somewhat sad to see the old building fasades on 8th go, but I'll be happy to see this development go up. I dont understand why all the hate on this project. I actually like this project, and think it's got more architecture/style than the beloved Arriva. Besides size, Arriva (especially the 4 tower, now 3 tower proposal) is bland, looks the same, and worst of all, is clustered together. Smaller projects such as Nova/Stella, Kai and even Sasso/Vetro have different looks going up. Arriva is the same from floor one all way up to the penthouse before it takes on a Sydney Opera hat look. It makes the Keynote project interesting!! They could have at least proposed an Exchange type of project with differnt towers...

The penny lane project, whatever it will look like will revitalize that part of downtown, and growth over the CP rail yards will start with this project and the Palliser project.

[WHISTLERINMUSKOKA]

Looking up if it was to be 64 floors.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i165/whistlerinToronto/63FloorPenny03.jpg?t=1168664031

[bob1954]

I think PL would look great at 60-65 floors, and I don't think it would take much of a design change either! A residential tower next to it would be a good fit given the location...

[Bokimon]

It would be wicked nice at a height like that. Even if it was say just that one East tower with more floors. But also at the same time the design should be modified so that a tower that high will look impressive and not just mundane typical look. Close to 900 feet at such projections, very nice.

[bob1954]

Then it's settled! Penny-Lane shall be a single 900' single skyscraper! What about the rest of the block!

[Riise]

be built in Edmonton

How about the PLT for Commonwealth?

[Distill3d]

How about the PLT for Commonwealth?


okay, heres my new idea then.

Lets build PLT with the new downtown rink for the Oilers. right where Stationlands was supposed to be. we'll make it one 900' tower, and build a smaller (say 450') hotel tower next to it (with a non matching design, cause Edmonton hates twins), and finally we'll build a third tower (we'll say 225') for residential use next too it. :banana:


(for the record, yes i have been drinking tonight :tup: )

[Mark Bench]

okay, heres my new idea then.

Lets build PLT with the new downtown rink for the Oilers. right where Stationlands was supposed to be. we'll make it one 900' tower, and build a smaller (say 450') hotel tower next to it (with a non matching design, cause Edmonton hates twins), and finally we'll build a third tower (we'll say 225') for residential use next too it. :banana:


(for the record, yes i have been drinking tonight :tup: )

One to many Duff beers Homer?:cheers:

[Calgarian]

I would hate to have PLT as the tallest, that building will be good filler, but not a good signature tower.

[1ajs]

Then it's settled! Penny-Lane shall be a single 900' single skyscraper! What about the rest of the block!
parking

[h0twired]

parking

There is already more than enough parking on the south side of 9th Ave SW.

[Arriviste]

parking

Worst idea ever.

[freeweed]

There is already more than enough parking on the south side of 9th Ave SW.

Yeah, that's one of the few places in Calgary that actually has decent parking, and not $78/day either. Until those rail lines get moved, that land will be covered in surface lots.

[vid]

Worst idea ever.

Most plausible idea ever. :(

[Wooster]

Yeah, that's one of the few places in Calgary that actually has decent parking, and not $78/day either. Until those rail lines get moved, that land will be covered in surface lots.

Well, some of the land right on the tracks is starting to be developed. That is a good sign. For instance Qualex's next major project is on the Alberta Boot site on 10th ave. Those surface lots there are a real blight on the Centre City. Can't wait to see those built out.

[CorporateWhore]

parking

deeper.

[bob1954]

The best thing that could happen IMO, is that PL become a single 55-60 story tower, scrap the smaller one! PL being built would'nt affect the other big projects from being built! All those 8-10-12 story suburban type buildings could effect the outcome of the bigger stuff, IMO!

[freeweed]

Well, some of the land right on the tracks is starting to be developed. That is a good sign. For instance Qualex's next major project is on the Alberta Boot site on 10th ave. Those surface lots there are a real blight on the Centre City. Can't wait to see those built out.

Good point - although I've heard nothing about any development on the south side of 9th, I suspect that if PLT goes forward that huge lot across the street would be snatched up for SOMETHING. Maybe a shopping/eating complex.

Either way, let me flog the horse a tiny bit more - HURRY UP WITH THE C-TRAIN!

[CMD UW]

I think the developer was put to shame by tha calibre of the other proposals out right now and asked the architect to spice up the design. They will probably go for 60 and 50 storey towers now as well.
No, I think the developers dropped the ball in securing a big tenant. As murman and others will agree, timing is everything. There was nothing wrong with the design, location, etc. They just didn't get their sh*t together and others beat them to the punch.

[ScottFromCalgary]

i hope they build it. i seriously do. it would be nice to see them incorporate both buildings into one and go head to head with The Bow for Calgary's tallest 9too much to wish for)

I also think this is extremely unlikely. IMHO, we will only see a cheaper (potentially worse) proposal or outright cancellation. If it is uneconomical as two shorter towers, it seems unlikely to go ahead as one tall building which would be more expensive per sq.ft. With the price of oil of oil dropping down to $50 over the last couple months and Ottawa stomping on the throat of Calgary's vibrant income trust sector, we may see more projects around the city getting a sober second thought. There is no doubt that we are in need of a lot more office space, but with companies having to face the reality that 2006 was probably the peak of the boom, the extravagance and heady days of the last few years may see a correction in 2007.

[chenmau]

^^ Nice sig. Wall Street. Good movie

[ScottFromCalgary]

Thanks, much appreciated.

[ummagumma66]

I did see them moving some construction equipment around on 9 Av earlier today, perhaps we're jumping the gun a bit, or am I missing something?

[mersar]

Likely just utilities type work. The city has a note of a few lanes closed on 9th between 1st and 2nd, and another between 4th and 5th.

[bob1954]

With all the smaller office projects (8-12 stories), if PL is not a single taller tower, why not develope a mixed-use project! No office at all! There is a screaming need for a lot more hotel space! A 40-50-60 story hotel and incorporate it with acouple of condo-rental towers, with some retail/entertainment, it's a great location for that type of developement. I'm surprised it's taking so many years to develope that large block! IMO!

[RWin]

As long as we're reviving old threads...

[freeweed]

With the price of oil of oil dropping down to $50 over the last couple months


Reviving old threads brings back some memories. That's a particularly good quote. I just had a chuckle over an email today that said "oil drops below $90".

[Calgarian]

Too bad they didn't go with the 50 and 60 storey towers like I predicted.

[wild wild west]

I guess the "stale" theory didn't come to pass...

[RWin]

I guess the "stale" theory didn't come to pass...

There isn't much in the ground yet.

[CMD UW]

Stale = developing and operating an u/g parking lot for awhile (see old Bay-Adelaide in Toronto as reference).

[RWin]

Stale = developing and operating an u/g parking lot for awhile (see old Bay-Adelaide in Toronto as reference).

Yes. For Penny Lane, I wouldn't consider it a sure thing until tenents start moving in. Too bad. I like the proposal.

[Boris2k7]

Well, I really liked the original mall, so this is quite tragic. I hope that if this proposal dies and sits as an U/G parkade for a while, we don't lower our standards even further just because we want to see the gaping hole in the streetscape developed...

[Sacamano]

we don't lower our standards even further just because we want to see the gaping hole in the streetscape developed

everyone has their breaking point (again ... Bay Adelaide Centre)

[Calgarian]

I hope PLT goes the way of FCC, in that the first tower gets built now, and the second tower will get re designed at a future date.

[Surrealplaces]

I hope PLT goes the way of FCC, in that the first tower gets built now, and the second tower will get re designed at a future date.

That's what I'm hoping. I'd be happier with one tower, the 50 storey one. Maybe the mixed use tower of some kind will come at a later time.

[wild wild west]

While I agree there is a chance this project will stop at the parkade level, I would argue that could be the case with any office tower in the event of a downturn. The developer's stated intent was to build the first tower since last spring, and he has held to the construction timeline thus far, so I see no reason not to believe that will be the case. For example, Centennial went ahead with its first tower on spec, and now they are out of the ground with substantial preleasing and construction to go ahead on the second tower.

Come on, folks - show some optimism - after all, this is Calgary!

[Slug]

I can't see this project going ahead on spec anytime soon. It is caught up in a epic catch 22 situation where it will not go out of the ground until tenants are signed and the tenants wont sign until there is proof it is coming out of the ground.

It will at the very least be interesting to see what happens when the parkade is complete.

[ibz]

Id be quite surprised if Penny Lane went ahead without securing a tenant, Calgary or not, there is still quite a bit of spec space u/c (There is still 900k+ of space in Centennial 1 & 2 available). There were quite a few in town who suspect they would go ahead with the parkade to take advantage of the more favorable parking ratios they stood to lose. That being said it is Calgary...huge rfps seem to grow on trees out there.

Ive never been able to figure this project out, if they do indeed stop at the parkade they stand to have missed 2 building cycles....and they were one of the first projects out of the gate. LIke CMD said they just havent been able to get their shit together, which is a bit odd considering there is good money and people behind this one.

[AUM]

From what I was told from a former colleague at GGA the UG parkade is to go ahead as it is desperately required downtown. The towers went on hold for much of the same reason as the University projects. High construction costs and labour shortage are causing major delays in projects.

Currently Arriva is signing off two floors at a time for occupancy just so they can get people in without further delays.

I think it is a wise choice for some of these projects to hold off until we get the correction we need. Rushing to build the projects will only result in poor quality and cut backs to the design in order to meet budget.