[viperred88]

hmmm here is a bit of news out of Inidianapolis RCA DOME is scheduled to be replaced by a new retractable-roof stadium in time for the 2008 NFL season. The new stadium, which is named Lucas Oil Stadium will be located across the street directly to the south of the RCA Dome's location in downtown Indianapolis. The RCA Dome is slated to be demolished to make room for an expansion to the Indiana Convention Center in late 2008.
They seem to have no ill effects to have built a domed stadium downtown as they are making way for a new one.

[trueviking]

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/9904/finalakeimage3ez6.jpg
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/5779/interiordomesv6.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/8955/plazadevelopmentwa3.jpg
http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/1899/1111cm8.jpg


i'll try and move the stadium discussion to this thread.

did anyone catch the piece on the david asper owned CKND newscast pointing out that the conceptual interior image of the canadinns stadium proposal was taken from the phoenix cardinal's stadium.

talk about dirty pool.

the lead designer for the canad inns stadium will be peter eisenman, the very same architect who designed cardinal's stadium.....of course this was not mentioned.

there is absolutely nothing wrong with using your own previous work as conceptual images to show general character and feel.....these are not designs..they are concepts....asper's concept would not be the design either. if they think that the final building will have sloped glass walls and an oval all glass hotel, they are sadly mistaken....these are concepts, not designs.

thre were several images of cardinal's stadium in the RFP....number ten took a tour of the facility and eisenman was chosen as the designer because of that stadium.

the newscast had a reporter at the forks holding two images asking what people thought.

the slant of the report was that if the cardinal's stadium cost 400 million to build then how can canadinns be saying that their proposal would only be 250 million....trying to cast doubt on its feasibility.

of course they failed to mention that the phoenix stadium is more than twice the size of the proposed stadium...it has a retractable roof, not a fixed one, it has hundreds of luxury suites and a moveable natural grass field....there is no comparasin in the scope of the two projects.

i wonder how canad inns will respond...

[Lee_Haber8]

^It doesn't seem like any thought was given to how everything should be laid out. The stadium needs to be moved close to Marion and Archibald where it can be better served with transit and rapid transit. I am also surprised they wouldn't try to develop some of this land as mixed use to offset the costs.

I wish Winnipeg had city planners who would demand these things :(

Here's a concept I made for East St. Boniface a while ago. It doesn't factor in these plans, by you can imagine where it would fit in
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y52/lee_haber8/stbr.jpg

[trueviking]

the site plan was literally done over easter dinner.

it is far more important for the commercial development to be at the intersection than the stadium...the retail relies on visibility and every day traffic...the stadium doesnt.

transit can run into the site easily from all directions and service the ballpark on the 10 days per year that it is used for football....there are way more realistic priorities guiding the site than mythical rapid transit.

the west end of the site is closest to the major artery of lagimodiere, which will be the highest volume access to the stadium itself.....that is one of the reasons it is there....also, the parking lot is best in the south east corner, buried away on the least viable property...the stadium needs to be adjacent to that.

the site is very much mixed use....if you mean housing, that is a possibility, but retail makes way more money.

[CCF]

Out of curiosity, how close is the proposed site to downtown?

[trueviking]

about 3kms.....the site is the open space in the foreground of the photo...downtown at the top.


http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/7559/untitled1oe0.jpg


green is the site...blue is downtown...

http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/2921/winnipegzt4.jpg

[CCF]

Is that the only spot being considered? Or is there somewhere else you guys would rather see it go?

[trueviking]

there are two proposals...one for an open air stadium at the existing stadium site at polo park...this is being proposed by david asper...he would also buy the football team....go here to see the images...

http://www.blueandgold.ca

the second proposal is for a dome on this site...the team would remain community owned....the proposal is by the canad inns hotel owners.

there is much debate on which is the better proposal..the bombers are considering both and will move forward to look for government funding once they decide.

[1ajs]

txs for posting the site viking now i can fix the asper image links

[FFX-ME]

congrats winnipeg, that stadium looks incredible, i wish ottawa had something like that

[The Diva]

Don't worry, Ottawa has a lot we do not have....

[FFX-ME]

like what, short ugly skyscrapers, politics lol, a border with québec, the only thing i can think of is an nhl team, i wish ottawa didnt move so slowly and stop contreversing all emprovements like the hight limit, the cancelation of the lrt, f in frank clair stadium

[The Diva]

You have a properly developed historic district (Byward is a hell of a lot more exciting than the Exchange District), you have a successful downtown mall, Ottawa has a lot more downtown residential options/more development, Ottawa has better hotels, LRT, more urban neighborhoods....

[SmileyBoy]

You have a properly developed historic district (Byward is a hell of a lot more exciting than the Exchange District), you have a successful downtown mall, Ottawa has a lot more downtown residential options/more development, Ottawa has better hotels, LRT, more urban neighborhoods....

Winnipeg has a successful downtown mall too. Last year I was in Winnipeg, I went to Portage Place, and it was PACKED.

[1ajs]

Winnipeg has a successful downtown mall too. Last year I was in Winnipeg, I went to Portage Place, and it was PACKED.

umm we got 3 malls downtown.........

[Lee_Haber8]

the site plan was literally done over easter dinner.

it is far more important for the commercial development to be at the intersection than the stadium...the retail relies on visibility and every day traffic...the stadium doesnt.

transit can run into the site easily from all directions and service the ballpark on the 10 days per year that it is used for football....there are way more realistic priorities guiding the site than mythical rapid transit.

the west end of the site is closest to the major artery of lagimodiere, which will be the highest volume access to the stadium itself.....that is one of the reasons it is there....also, the parking lot is best in the south east corner, buried away on the least viable property...the stadium needs to be adjacent to that.

the site is very much mixed use....if you mean housing, that is a possibility, but retail makes way more money.

Well I hope more thought is put into more advanced plans. I understand the justification but I still think you could add retail and a connection to lagimodiere by extending the urban fabric instead of some strewn together hodge-podge like SmartPark. You'd probably get more money out of the land by putting proper infrastructure since you would be using land more efficiently. This design seriously reminds me of the Olympic stadium complex in Montreal - that is not a good thing.

Mythical rapid transit? Only because today's politicians are so near-sighted they can't see how the area should be in the future. Sustainable development is about meeting future needs as well as the present ones - why not move the stadium to the northwest corner, build a street grid and parking lots in a way so that as Winnipeg moves away from cars the parking lots can be developed? Why not have the stadium surrounded and directly connected to retail buildings so that the retail building are on the street and the stadium is set back instead of having them all over the place?

I know this is a pretty critical analysis, but criticism makes a project better in the end. Where are the planners that should be doing this?

[trueviking]

Well I hope more thought is put into more advanced plans. I understand the justification but I still think you could add retail and a connection to lagimodiere by extending the urban fabric instead of some strewn together hodge-podge like SmartPark. You'd probably get more money out of the land by putting proper infrastructure since you would be using land more efficiently. This design seriously reminds me of the Olympic stadium complex in Montreal - that is not a good thing.

Mythical rapid transit? Only because today's politicians are so near-sighted they can't see how the area should be in the future. Sustainable development is about meeting future needs as well as the present ones - why not move the stadium to the northwest corner, build a street grid and parking lots in a way so that as Winnipeg moves away from cars the parking lots can be developed? Why not have the stadium surrounded and directly connected to retail buildings so that the retail building are on the street and the stadium is set back instead of having them all over the place?

I know this is a pretty critical analysis, but criticism makes a project better in the end. Where are the planners that should be doing this?

dont worry...whatever happens on this site, it will be planned...this was just a graphic, mostly to show scale and possible zoning.

who knows what it will turn into...residential is a possibility if the stadium doesnt happen.

i dont agree with you that the stadium should be on the north west corner though....that bohemoth would cut the rest of the site off from being useful....commercial space makes far more sense not only for visibility and traffic but also for neighbourhood scale.

[FFX-ME]

is it just me or does that pic looks more around the lines of 45000 instead of 30000

[ScrappyPeg]

I kinda like the idea that someone from another province/city has come into this site to congratulate Winnipeg on something. Of course, we are always quick to dispell any possibility that there is something to be proud of in this city.:cool:

[bomberguy]

is it just me or does that pic looks more around the lines of 45000 instead of 30000
It's more like 64 thousand. :rolleyes:

[SmileyBoy]

It's more like 64 thousand. :rolleyes:

It looks like they took an interior pic of the Arizona Cardinals stadium and inlaid the pic with blue and yellow seats, a blue bombers fierld and a huge scoreboard.

[bomberguy]

It looks like they took an interior pic of the Arizona Cardinals stadium and inlaid the pic with blue and yellow seats, a blue bombers fierld and a huge scoreboard.

Yep, TV mentioned that it was photoshopped.
Here's the original.
http://www.visitphoenix.com/assets/whatsnew/cardinal_sta_hi.jpg

[FFX-ME]

ah man, i knew it was too good to be true, and what do you mean, winnipeg has tons to be proud of, you had the first skyscraper in NA, were the chicago of the north, have a great sports community, new baseball, hockey and football stadiums.

[newflyer]

I kinda like the idea that someone from another province/city has come into this site to congratulate Winnipeg on something. Of course, we are always quick to dispell any possibility that there is something to be proud of in this city.:cool:

I agree .. Winnipegers are very critical of there city. I think.. or at least hope.. its because we want it to be as good as possible and are not satisfied with the status quo.

Winnipeg does have alot of great attributes and I also wish there was a little more optimism about our city.


As far as the stadium proposals go .. I think they both have positives and minuses, but I would be happy with either.
When do we hear about the third proposal?

[Brokenhead]

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/5779/interiordomesv6.jpg

Knowing that this is done with photoshop, if you look at the bottom, you can see two people standing indentical in reverse.

It's amazing what Photoshop or other software can do. This was done pretty will.

[trueviking]

^thanks...it had to be widened for the bigger field so i mirrored it down the middle....good eye.

[newflyer]

^thanks...it had to be widened for the bigger field so i mirrored it down the middle....good eye.

Well come on TV ... get out that eraser and eliminate the extra pair. ;)

[viperred88]

I would like to see glass above the upperdeck much like the new Ford dome in detroit.

[bomberguy]

Yeah, adding windows/glass would be great.
http://www.theticketking.com/tickets/images/millerpark1.jpg
http://www.jblpro.com/pressroom/ford_field/assets/Ford%20Field.jpg

[newflyer]

Yeah, adding windows/glass would be great.
http://www.theticketking.com/tickets/images/millerpark1.jpg
http://www.jblpro.com/pressroom/ford_field/assets/Ford%20Field.jpg

Very nice!!! ... add some natural light makes it a better setting I think.

[trueviking]

that is nice....it is kind of the idea i was thinking about for the exterior image...if you notice, there is a band of vertical glass around the top, below the roof and a large expanse of glass at the end. i made it yellow to differentiate it. this would be quite similar to ford field

it makes sense, because it is way cheaper than a retractable roof, but you can make it feel more outdoors...i was thinking that the windows could be openable so you could also get natural ventilation...like a retractable wall instead of a retractable roof...

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/9904/finalakeimage3ez6.jpg

[1ajs]

that is nice....it is kind of the idea i was thinking about for the exterior image...if you notice, there is a band of vertical glass around the top, below the roof and a large expanse of glass at the end. i made it yellow to differentiate it. this would be quite similar to ford field

it makes sense, because it is way cheaper than a retractable roof, but you can make it feel more outdoors...i was thinking about makeing the windows openable so you could also get natural ventilation...like a retractable wall instead of a retractable roof...

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/9904/finalakeimage3ez6.jpg
glass wall like the baseball stadium in houston has?

[drew]

Doer lines up behind Polo Park site

Wed Apr 25 2007

By Mia Rabson

KEN GIGLIOTTI / WINNIPEG FREE PRESS
Gary Doer (at podium) is joined by candidates (from left) Andrew Swan, Eric Robinson and Kerri Irvin-Ross as he announces NDP support for stadium Tuesday.
THE Winnipeg Blue Bombers will get provincial cash to help build a new stadium, Premier Gary Doer pledged on the campaign trail Tuesday.

And if Doer gets his way, the new facility will go up at the same site as the aging stadium at Polo Park.

After months of hedging on the issue of a new stadium, Doer told a crowd of 220 people at a Manitoba Chambers of Commerce breakfast he feels the existing stadium is outdated with bathrooms that are "crap" and seats "built for Lilliputians."

Later in the morning he used the MTS Centre as a backdrop for an official campaign announcement on the stadium.

"We want facilities that are not 60 years old," said Doer. "We want modern facilities for our modern community."

Doer also committed $60 million Tuesday to modernizing and building new recreation centres and sports facilities for amateur sports across Manitoba.

He said he can't commit to helping build a new stadium for professional sports and ignore the needs of communities, where kids don't have enough arenas or soccer fields to play soccer on.

"If kids want to play, we've got a community responsibility, when they want to participate, to build those facilities," said Doer.

Doer had never ruled out provincial money for a new stadium but it was never on his list of priorities for provincial capital. He had also never said which stadium proposal he prefers until yesterday.

"I personally like the Polo Park site initially because of the opportunities for private investment adjacent to the shopping mall," said Doer.

That proposal was put forward by CanWest Global executive David Asper. The other option on the table, for a St. Boniface stadium from Canad Inns president Leo Ledohowski, is a no-go for provincial cash as far as Doer is concerned because it includes a new convention centre, which would compete with the Winnipeg Convention Centre downtown.

"I won't be in favour of anything that will affect the Convention Centre (in downtown Winnipeg)," Doer told the Free Press.

The Blue Bombers' board of directors is considering both proposals now and will then move forward on any requests for public money.

Both of the proposals call for $80 million in public funding -- divided equally between Ottawa and Manitoba. Thus far, Ottawa has expressed no interest in funding a new stadium in Winnipeg, and Doer said yesterday federal funding would be helpful but isn't totally necessary.
But he also indicated even a $40 million contribution from Manitoba is too rich for taxpayers.

He said the stadium funding from the province will be doled out with the same type of public-private partnership as the MTS Centre.

The $133.5 million MTS Centre was funded 70 per cent by the private sector. Together, the three levels of government contributed $40 million, of which the province's contribution was just over $13 million.

-- with files from Bartley Kives

mia.rabson@freepress.mb.ca

[RAFS]

Well, I don't know who I'm voting for, but I now know who will NOT getting my vote! Fuck Doer! If he is backing Asper's plan, then fuck him. The current site of the stadium is terrible. It was fine many years ago when it was there with the velodrome (sp?) and PP. But now that it has turned into shopping hell, the stadium should go.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the Packer's site is perfect, but it is the better of the 2 (IMO).

Also, on the surface, Ledohowski's deal does appear to be much better, in terms of ownership, etc.

Sorry, just venting.

[drew]

^ Doer is expressing concerns (that I also raised here before) regarding potential convention business being siphoned away from Downtown with a covered stadium at the Packer's site. I think that is a very legitimate concern that we should all have regarding the propsal in St.B.

[RAFS]

^ Doer is expressing concerns (that I also raised here before) regarding potential convention business being siphoned away from Downtown with a covered stadium at the Packer's site. I think that is a very legitimate concern that we should all have regarding the propsal in St.B.
I understand. Neither proposal is perfect. But which one is the lesser of the 2 evils? I think the PP location is just terrible, and make that my #1 priority when it comes to deciding on one of them. Remember, it's just MY opinion.

[Pegger5]

Unless it is downtown or close by just keep it in Polo Park. If I still lived in the Peg I would rarely (if ever) go to a game if it was out by the Downs or on the Canada Packers site...
Winnipeg is not big enough to have two competing Convention Centre's, In fact no Canadian City really is. MTS Centre can act as a Trade Show place as well...
The Bombers have yet to say how they would pay for their proposal. At least Asper has a plan...

[The Diva]

Doer is f*cken SOB...if he cared about business downtown, he would find the money to expand the convention centre which would bring large conventions to the city...

[newflyer]

^ Doer is expressing concerns (that I also raised here before) regarding potential convention business being siphoned away from Downtown with a covered stadium at the Packer's site. I think that is a very legitimate concern that we should all have regarding the propsal in St.B.

Yeah thats fair. Winnipeg is not big enough to support two large convention centres. Although an expanded convention centre downtown sounds really good.

[viperred88]

Doer is f*cken SOB...if he cared about business downtown, he would find the money to expand the convention centre which would bring large conventions to the city...


Exactly, lets add another component in revitalizing downtown. Its central, your infrastructure is already, and most transit routes lead in and out of downtown. It all adds up to making too much sense.

if the city and convention centre would have any foresight, they would rezone the land and take away a street or two, tear down the convention rebuild it ( as it seems to be outdated already) as part of the stadium or build the stadium as an addition. The convention centre needs that extra space to hold bigger convention and exhibtions to hold heavy machinery shows.

Perhaps the delta hotels by the convention centre will realize there hotels need major updating so they would decide to build brand new by the new convention centre. Have Canad'Inns buld there water park there too.

I see nothing wrong with adding 30 000 another people downtown 10 times a year. I would sure help the restaurant and retail out bigtime.

[drew]

Bomber Board Picks Asper Plan For Stadium
MAY 01 2007 11:10 AM

The Winnipeg Blue Bomber Football Club has chosen David Asper's stadium proposal.

Board Chair Ken Hildahl says the first step is to enter into negotiations with Asper to see if they can come up with a letter of intent for a new facility.

Hildahl admits that David Asper's intent to take control of the team may be a stumbling block in negotiations. In the proposal, Asper would contribute 65 million dollars towards the stadium. However the plan also requires 80 million dollars from government.

CJOB's Kacey Wilson reporting.

[Archiseek]

wohooo
reason prevails

[fengshui]

Still don't know which one I prefer, but why would they pick Asper if they don't want to give up control? Seems like that part of the deal is required to make the whole thing work for the Aspers.

[drew]

I don't really care who owns the team. My biggest concerns were the dome and the stink. Picking polo park solved both those problems.

I also not convinced that the Polo Park area could quickly absorb the glut of new retail area opened up by the demolition of the stadium. It would be an eyesore for a long time in the future - much like the previous site of the arena.

[WpG_GuY]

The Winnipeg Football Club is entering into negotiations with Creswin Properties Limited and David Asper for a new facility at the current site of Canad Inns Stadium.

Bombers board chairman Ken Hildahl tells winnipegFIRST.ca that the board believes the Asper proposal is better for the long-term financial viability of the club than a second proposal by Leo Ledohowski.

Hildahl won't say whether any specific aspects of the Ledohowki proposal, which included a water park and hotel along with a domed stadium in St. Boniface, turned the tide in Asper's favour.

The Asper plan calls for a seating area that is covered, but no dome over the field.

All aspects of Asper's proposal will be open for negotiation, Hildahl says, including the eventual ownership of the football team.

Asper has made it clear that his plan is to become the owner of the club, which is currently community owned.

Despite recent financial success that has rid the football club of debt, Hildahl says it's impossible to guarantee the club will remain viable in the future if it remains community owned. He says the constant cycle of "boom and bust" for the CFL always leaves the future in doubt.

The plan calls for $65 million from Asper, and $80 million split evenly between the federal and provincial governments.

WinnipegFIRST.ca will have more on this breaking story later today.

[Reed Solomon]

^ Doer is expressing concerns (that I also raised here before) regarding potential convention business being siphoned away from Downtown with a covered stadium at the Packer's site. I think that is a very legitimate concern that we should all have regarding the propsal in St.B.

Screw the Convention Centre. Nobody cares about the Convention Centre, trade shows are skipping over Winnipeg. If Ledohowski wants to build a water park and convention centre with stadium, good.

[Reed Solomon]

I don't really care who owns the team. My biggest concerns were the dome and the stink. Picking polo park solved both those problems.

I like the dome, and I've never noticed the stink. Whoopdedoo.


I also not convinced that the Polo Park area could quickly absorb the glut of new retail area opened up by the demolition of the stadium.

Sure it could.

It would be an eyesore for a long time in the future - much like the previous site of the arena.

It's St James. Who Cares?

[1ajs]

Ledohowski could go after a foot ball team A.K.A. soccer

[newflyer]

I don't really care who owns the team. My biggest concerns were the dome and the stink. Picking polo park solved both those problems.

I also not convinced that the Polo Park area could quickly absorb the glut of new retail area opened up by the demolition of the stadium. It would be an eyesore for a long time in the future - much like the previous site of the arena.

The previous arena site could have been developed long ago.. Cadilac Fairview was waiting to se if the Bombers were going to leave the area and put there land up for sale. Trust me that piece of land is the hotest retail location in play right now. Look for CF to announce there plans in the coming months, if the Bombers finalize there plans... for the current stadium site.

If the Stadium location were ever to come available developers would line up from far and wide to have a chance to take that prime location. It would be filled with new shops, restaurants and perhaps a new hotel .. right quick.. you can count on that. :yes:

Polo Park is the retail hub of Winnipeg and has proven to be a huge money maker for most retailers. There are still a long line of stores who would want in on the action, if the opportunity was available.

[newflyer]

I like the dome, and I've never noticed the stink. Whoopdedoo.



Sure it could.



It's St James. Who Cares?

.. actually its not St.James .. its a part of old Winnipeg. St.James starts at St.James Street .. just west of the Polo Park mall and stadium.

And don't talk poorly of St.James its a great community .. and former city. :tup: I grew up there and have nothing but good things to say about it. Alot of great memories for sure!!

[Reed Solomon]

.. actually its not St.James .. its a part of old Winnipeg. St.James starts at St.James Street .. just west of the Polo Park mall and stadium.


Seems to me that the stadium is right on St James street.

[drew]

I like the dome, and I've never noticed the stink. Whoopdedoo.

Sure it could.

It's St James. Who Cares?

Domed stadiums are a relic of the late 1990s. They certainly don't make sense to be built for a modest professional league like the CFL - and they destroy the atmosphere of an outdoor game. People have been attending bombers games rain or shine, windy, snowy, hot and humid for well over 50 years now. It's part of the charm of watching football.

I am not going to start arguing about the smell factor, but whether or not you believe it smells there, there is no denying that this was an issue for the packers site in the eyes of many people in this city.

In terms of eyesores - even the Polo Park retail disaster is drop dead gorgeous eye candy compared to the St. Boniface Industrial park. No amount of shiny glass, intricate landscaping or fancy light stands would ever change that.

[Only The Lonely..]

. . .

In terms of eyesores - even the Polo Park retail disaster is drop dead gorgeous eye candy compared to the St. Boniface Industrial park. No amount of shiny glass, intricate landscaping or fancy light stands would ever change that.

But isn't it this area (Canada Packers) that needs urban renewal the most?

[drew]

^ not when it's bordered by heavy industry. I am not saying something shouldn't be done there, but it is certainly not an ideal location for an outdoor public use facility.

Use it for something more suited to the area surrounding it. Light industrial, warehouse/office mix...

But hey, if CanadInns thinks they can put a hotel and waterpark in there, let them go for it. I was never against that aspect, and really, if they actually had a business plan, the lack of a stadium really could only have benefitted their bottom line... (which is why the plan was suspect from the beginning for me).

[newflyer]

Seems to me that the stadium is right on St James street.

I believe it's address is Maroon road. Everything east of St.James Street is old Winnipeg and everything west is St.James and its slightly newer expansion St.James-Assinaboia.

[viperred88]

The previous arena site could have been developed long ago.. Cadilac Fairview was waiting to se if the Bombers were going to leave the area and put there land up for sale. Trust me that piece of land is the hotest retail location in play right now. Look for CF to announce there plans in the coming months, if the Bombers finalize there plans... for the current stadium site.

If the Stadium location were ever to come available developers would line up from far and wide to have a chance to take that prime location. It would be filled with new shops, restaurants and perhaps a new hotel .. right quick.. you can count on that. :yes:

Polo Park is the retail hub of Winnipeg and has proven to be a huge money maker for most retailers. There are still a long line of stores who would want in on the action, if the opportunity was available.


Of the 2 proposed sites the sta james site is the most logical one.

hmm I wonder what this prime parcel of land would sell for. A team like the bombers who is always in dire need of some extra cash I wonderwhy don't explore this option and sell it.


And move downtown by either higgins (open air stadium) or get in a venture with the convention centre and true north and build a retractable domed stadium and redevelop the land by the convention centre.

[Reed Solomon]

Domed stadiums are a relic of the late 1990s. They certainly don't make sense to be built for a modest professional league like the CFL - and they destroy the atmosphere of an outdoor game. People have been attending bombers games rain or shine, windy, snowy, hot and humid for well over 50 years now. It's part of the charm of watching football.

Certainly not just for the bombers, but as part of a convention complex with a waterpark a domed stadium offers the city something it doesn't have with the current convention centre. I'm not enough of a bombers fan that I think 80 million of public money should be handed over to david asper to build a stadium that will see use probably only 10 times a year and also gives him ownership of the bombers. I think you're dead wrong about domed stadiums being unable to offer the same sort of experience as an outdoor stadium, especially if you encorperate more modern design aspects. I don't particularly care for the charm of sitting outside watching the bombers lose while being bitten by mosquitos on a summer evening while being annoyed by fat ushers, nor do I particularly care if the bombers can somehow eke out a win just by being able to luck out a win on slippery icy conditions. Charm of watching football. The stadium has to offer more use than just the football team to me, to be worth the investment right now. The MTS Centre has given us lots of concerts. CanWest global was built for the pan-am games and makes the forks look better. What does a new stadium on the same grounds as the old stadium offer me? It doesn't make sense to build a dome in a city where its very cold much of the year? It doesn't make sense to build for the future? To think on a grander scale?

I am not going to start arguing about the smell factor, but whether or not you believe it smells there, there is no denying that this was an issue for the packers site in the eyes of many people in this city.
I was of the impression more people were in favour of the waterpark/st B/stadium proposal at least from the unscientific polls done by unbiased newspapers.

In terms of eyesores - even the Polo Park retail disaster is drop dead gorgeous eye candy compared to the St. Boniface Industrial park. No amount of shiny glass, intricate landscaping or fancy light stands would ever change that.
Yeah and it would have a park like setting on rehabilitated land surrounded by trees.

Although everything is moot anyways, because if Aspers proposal stays the same, it won't happen.

[Reed Solomon]

I believe it's address is Maroon road. Everything east of St.James Street is old Winnipeg and everything west is St.James and its slightly newer expansion St.James-Assinaboia.

Yeah whatever, google maps shows that it is right off of St James, whatever side its on is irrelevant.

[Only The Lonely..]

Dome in St. B never had a chance


Bartley Kives | Thu May 3 2007 | Winnipeg Free Press

AFTER the Winnipeg Blue Bombers chose to play ball with would-be stadium-builder David Asper, some fans are still wondering why the Polo Park plan was chosen over Leo Ledohowski's St. Boniface site.
Here's the deal: Given the benefit of hindsight, it's safe to say that the Canad Inns concept never really had a chance of getting selected by the Winnipeg Football Club.

Asper and the Bomber board may be far apart on the issue of ownership, but Ledohowski's $520-million proposal had too much going against it.

Asper succeeded by a simple process of elimination, at least in part. Here are five political reasons why the Canad Inns' proposal was doomed from the start -- and none of them have anything to do with the merits of the Public Markets plan itself:


1. Conflict with the
MTS Centre


WHEN the city and province signed a deal with True North to build a new downtown arena, all parties agreed to a clause that prevents both governments from funding or approving a covered venue that could compete with the MTS Centre.

The Canad Inns plan called for a domed stadium in St. Boniface. Such a stadium could not be built without the blessing of True North -- and such a blessing was neither requested nor granted, both sides have confirmed.

"The key difficulty that I had observed through the media with (the St. Boniface) plan is that it required consent from True North to proceed. That's probably where they should have started," Winnipeg Mayor Sam Katz said Wednesday. "That would have been a key hurdle to get over."


2. Conflict with the

convention centre

AS you read this, 14 Canadian cities are in the process of building or expanding their convention centres, all of which compete with the 130,000-square-foot Winnipeg Convention Centre.

The publicly funded venue is in the midst of seeking funding from all three levels of government to conduct an expansion of its own. But the Canad Inns plan for St. Boniface -- which called for 280,000 square feet of convention space -- would have rendered the downtown facility irrelevant.

In April, Manitoba Premier Gary Doer went on record stating he would not fund a facility that would replace the Winnipeg Convention Centre. That was a not-so-subtle signal to both the Bomber board and the public at large.

City sources say Ledohowski has always viewed the Winnipeg Convention Centre as competition -- and the powers that be at the province were not going to make it easy for him to build a convention centre of his own.


3. Conflict with

downtown hotels

On a similar note, if the Canad Inns plan went ahead, much of the city's existing convention business -- which injects $50 million into the local economy every year, according to Destination Winnipeg -- may have migrated from downtown Winnipeg to St. Boniface.

The owners of downtown hotels, who have remained quiet during the stadium debate, would have become enraged. The hoteliers are not powerful enough to affect government policy, but they are powerful enough to complain -- and no civic or provincial government would ever willingly create that sort of headache.


4. Party politics


IN the 1990s, a central figure in the provincial vote-rigging scandal was Taras Sokolyk, a former Tory operative. Most voters have long since forgotten the name, but not the NDP government, which would not prefer to work with a man they still have not forgiven, a source close to Premier Gary Doer confirmed.

Sokolyk now works as Leo Ledohowski's right-hand man. The Winnipeg Blue Bomber board, meanwhile, includes Eugene Kostyra, Gary Doer's former right-hand man.

You don't need to be a political genius in order to connect the dots. Sokolyk may be a man of considerable talents -- successful businessmen like Ledohowski don't employ liabilities -- but he continues to be disliked by the NDP.

5. Greasing the wheels


BEFORE the Winnipeg Football Club's board put out a call for proposals to build a new stadium, David Asper was already working the phones, informing Katz and Doer what he was planning.

Leo Ledohowski did not engage in this backroom diplomatic offensive. In fact, he was instructed not to do so by the Winnipeg Football Club itself: by the time he submitted a proposal, he was subject to a confidentiality clause that the Bombers only waived after the Free Press reported Canad Inns had purchased the Public Markets in St. Boniface.

"There was a process set out. We abided by it," said Ledohowski, insisting he was not allowed to speak to the city, province or federal government about prospective funding or tax breaks.

"We were in the process of contacting the three levels of government when the announcement was made... which we learned about through the media."

Katz and Doer said they never heard from Ledohowski. He may have played by the rules but, in doing so, lost the game.


bartley.kives@freepress.mb.ca

[1ajs]

http://www.winnipegsun.com/News/Winnipeg/2007/06/22/4282120.html

Bombers sign letter of intent to sell team to Asper

By KIRK PENTON

The Winnipeg Football Club has unanimously agreed to a letter of intent with David Asper on a new stadium proposal, which would effectively end 77 years of community ownership of the Blue Bombers.

Asper must now acquire $40 million from both the federal and provincial governments for a new $120-million stadium. If he can secutre that, he should also assume control of the team as part of the agreement.

“It’s a very exciting time,” Asper said. “We think we can create for the community what the baseball park created and what MTS Centre, along the same partnership model, has created for Winnipeg and to become a beacon for a revived and rejuvenated Blue Bombers and for the Canadian Football League.

“So we’re looking forward to it. There’s a lot of work left to do, but it’s very gratifying to be in a position to do it.”

The WFC chose Asper as its lone negotiating partner on May 1, and Thursday night’s unanimous vote concluded six weeks of negotiations. It appears the ownership details were worked out during the talks, although WFC chairman Ken Hildahl cautioned that a final deal hasn’t been done.
“The final deal won’t get voted on until the whole pacakge is before the board,” Hildahl said.

“What we’ve done is agreed to take it to the next step. It’s far from a done deal.”

Read more in tomorrow's Winnipeg Sun.

[Jets4Life]

Domed stadiums are a relic of the late 1990s. .


Actually, they seem to be more of a relic of the late 70's-80's. Domed Stadiums are horrible, and ruin the atmosphere of the game. I was in BC Place a couple of times, and you just can't compare it to a day at CanadInns Stadium.

[Jets4Life]

Yeah whatever, google maps shows that it is right off of St James, whatever side its on is irrelevant.

If you are debating whether the stadium is in Old St James or not, Newflyer is right. The stadium is just within the old City of Winnipeg limits.

[newflyer]

If you are debating whether the stadium is in Old St James or not, Newflyer is right. The stadium is just within the old City of Winnipeg limits.

Thought so, because the old city of Winnipeg wouldn't have built a city run (current) stadium in the city of St.James...back in the 50's. Since the new stadium is proposed for the same site .. there you go.

[dennis]

Winnipeg Sun
Saturday , September 15, 2007


'Hard' reality from feds
Private entertainment projects are no priority

By TOM BRODBECK




Winnipeg businessman David Asper pitched his idea of building a new, privately-owned football stadium -- largely with tax dollars -- to federal Treasury Board President Vic Toews on Wednesday, Sun Media has learned.

But Asper -- who wants taxpayers to contribute $80 million to a proposed $120-million stadium for the Winnipeg Blue Bombers -- got a cool response from Toews.

Toews told Asper during the meeting in Winnipeg that he would review Asper's request for federal dollars "as a courtesy," but at this point he's not even considering funding the proposed building.

Thank goodness.

"We've made absolutely no commitment to supporting it," Toews told Sun Media. "It would be a stretch to say we're even considering funding it."

OWNERSHIP FOR FREE

Asper is seeking $40 million each from the federal and provincial governments, which would cover two-thirds of the cost of a facility Asper would own outright.

As part of the deal, Asper wants ownership of the Bombers for free and the right to develop commercial property around the existing Canad Inns Stadium, which we as taxpayers own.

Did you want me to polish your shoes too, Mr. Asper?

Premier Gary Doer has expressed an interest in funding Asper's dream stadium and the province is reviewing details of the funding arrangement.

No big surprise there. Doer's never seen a corporate welfare deal he didn't like.

Unfortunately for Asper, the federal government hasn't been quite as loose with the purse strings for this stadium proposal.

Toews said his government is willing to take a look at the proposal but insists the federal review should not be construed as showing interest in the project.

"All we're doing, as a courtesy to a very prominent Manitoba businessperson, is taking a look at a proposal he's presenting," said Toews. "We see all kinds of proposals, but that does not in any way assume any type of tacit or other support for the proposal."

Toews says using tax dollars to build privately-owned stadiums for professional sports teams does not fit into the federal government's plan to upgrade Canada's "hard infrastructure," like fixing crumbling bridges and roads and upgrading sewer and water systems.

No kidding. And can you blame the feds?

"We have people who don't have basic infrastructure in their communities, and so we have to be very careful with the money that we as a federal government have," said Toews.

For example, there are now 50 boil-water orders in Manitoba, said Toews. And much of Manitoba's infrastructure, including bridges and roads, are aging and need to be refurbished or replaced, he said.

"As a federal government, where we're sharing the burdens of these financial demands, we have to make sure we have our priorities right and that they're in keeping with what Manitobans want," said Toews.

Asked if a privately-owned football stadium falls within those priorities, he said it's "not what I would call hard infrastructure, and my priority has been to emphasize hard infrastructure."

Amen.

That's not to say the federal government isn't interested in making financial contributions to publicly-owned sporting facilities like those attached to universities and colleges, said Toews.

But funding privately-owned ones for professional sports teams is a different story.

NOT RULED OUT

"As far as I know, our government has not committed to any funding of privately-owned sports facilities primarily utilized by professional sports teams," said Toews.

Nor should they.

Toews has not ruled out making a contribution to Asper's stadium.

He says federal officials will review the plan and he'll come to a firm conclusion at a later date.

But at this point, it looks like Asper may have to go back to the drawing board -- and maybe dig a little deeper into his OWN pocket.

---

THE STADIUM SAGA

Jan. 14, 2007

CanWest Global executive David Asper presents his visions of a $120-million stadium to the Winnipeg Blue Bombers board of directors. Asper wants the federal and provincial governments to each contribute $40 million to a proposed stadium on the site of Canad Inns Stadium. Part of the deal includes Asper taking over community ownership of the team and investing $25 million into retail/commercial development on city-owned land around the stadium.

April 9, 2007 -- Canad Inns CEO Leo Ledohowski proposes to build a $265-million domed football stadium at the former Canada Packers site in St. Boniface. Ledohowski wants $80 million from taxpayers and a $29-million tax break from the city.

April 24, 2007 -- Premier Gary Doer makes an election campaign promise to use tax dollars to help build a new football stadium.

May 1, 2007 -- Blue Bombers board chooses David Asper's stadium plan and agrees to negotiate exclusively with him.

June 21, 2007 -- Bombers board agrees to a letter of intent with Asper to move forward on the stadium project.

August 2007 -- Doer government says it's doing due diligence on Asper's request for $40 million in provincial funding for the proposed stadium.

Sept. 12, 2007 -- Asper meets with federal Treasury Board President Vic Toews to pitch stadium idea, including $40 million of federal funding. Toews cool to idea, says Ottawa not considering funding stadium right now.



As much as I agree with Mr. Toew's stance on not providing government funding to a private sports franchise, I am still saddened to hear this news. I would still be happy with a downsized proposal, such as another major retrofit of the current stadium.

[Dalreg]

So let me get this straight. Asper wants the team for free. A stadium where he will shell out 1/3 of the cost and the old stadium lands for redevelopment.

In exchange Winnipeg gets a new privately owned stadium and loses control of the team.

Thats the deal?

[rrskylar]

^ Who does Asper think he is, Sam Katz?

[1ajs]

lol haha asper why not just pay for it in full you idiot

[newflyer]

..

[newflyer]

So let me get this straight. Asper wants the team for free. A stadium where he will shell out 1/3 of the cost and the old stadium lands for redevelopment.

In exchange Winnipeg gets a new privately owned stadium and loses control of the team.

Thats the deal?

Its not as one sided at it appears ... as the MTS Centre also recieved a significant contribution from the three levels of government .. but the government funds were recovered through taxes before the new arena ever opened... which is why Doer is all over this deal.

Yes it is a bit extravigant, but at the end of the day it will give Winnipeg the best football stadium in the country to add to the other top-end sports facilities in this city.

[newflyer]

This is really Winnipeg's old attitude trying to peak through...

... imagine if the nah-sayers killed the ballpark or arena .. :yuck:


It costs too much..... :koko: ... or private investors are involved in the public ammenity.. GASP..

Winnipeg must get over this fear riddened attitude once more... :yes:

[J-MAN]

.

[Dalreg]

Its not as one sided at it appears ... as the MTS Centre also recieved a significant contribution from the three levels of government .. but the government funds were recovered through taxes before the new arena ever opened... which is why Doer is all over this deal.

Yes it is a bit extravigant, but at the end of the day it will give Winnipeg the best football stadium in the country to add to the other top-end sports facilities in this city.


It's not the funding of the stadium that gets me. It's the giving up control of a community owned team for basically nothing.

[newflyer]

It's not the funding of the stadium that gets me. It's the giving up control of a community owned team for basically nothing.

In reality .. both the Stamps and Ti-cats were give aways (when they became privately owned).. not to mention the array of free expansion teams in the 90's ... but in this case there is a really nice new stadium as part of the deal.

If the team were sold within a cash only deal.. what would it be worth in its current stadium? Who would the cash goto? .. community owned team, really doesn't have an owner. The government does not own any pro team I am aware of. At least within this deal, Asper has commited to provide strong support to the Manitoba Football Association and the Manitoba Bisons.... so the community will still benefit even while the Bombers are privately owned and operated.

The Aspers have shown time and time again to be big Winnipeg supporters .. and as a long time Bomberfan I would be 100% comfortable with them owning the team. I would also add I don't think the Aspers are looking at this team as a profit generator, as much as being able to add the means through the new stadium and ability for franchise to be among the strongest in the league. Its really more of a community investment.. along the line of the new Human Rights Musuem than a business deal. On the other hand the attached retail development and possible hotel and office building will create a strong stream.

[viperred88]

wouldn"t this be cool and efficient to have as a new stadium

click facilities info

http://www.saitama-arena.co.jp/e/

[drew]

So let me get this straight. Asper wants the team for free. A stadium where he will shell out 1/3 of the cost and the old stadium lands for redevelopment.

In exchange Winnipeg gets a new privately owned stadium and loses control of the team.

Thats the deal?

IIRC the new stadium will still be owned by the public...?

[viperred88]

ASPER PROPOSES NEW STADIUM – STABLE ERA FOR
WINNIPEG BLUE BOMBERS

http://blueandgold.ca/video.html



Community Partnership Could See Construction Start by Fall 2007
January 14, 2007 – A new stadium for Winnipeg and a financially stable era for the Winnipeg Blue Bombers could be just around the corner if a proposal by business leader and „uber‟ Blue Bomber fan David Asper gets the nod.
Asper presented the full proposal for a private/public partnership today to the Board of Directors of the Winnipeg Football Club.
“This is a great opportunity for Winnipeg to work together to build on past successes, like the MTS Centre, with a new landmark project that will secure the long-term future of the Bombers and a winning reputation for Winnipeg,” said Asper.
The cornerstone of Asper‟s $145 million proposal is construction of a new, partially covered stadium to be constructed on the same site without football interruptions.
Of this amount, Asper would contribute $65 million with $40 million required from both federal and provincial governments. Such a heavy contribution from a community investor would also mean a full change of ownership from the present structure.
“When a community investor steps forward with a significant investment, it is my hope that fans will feel it is only fair that club ownership undergo change, as well,” he said.
Referring to successful examples of privately run CFL clubs like Montreal, BC, Hamilton and Calgary as well as our own Manitoba Moose and Winnipeg Goldeyes, Asper said his plan simply makes the best business sense for the club and the community. “Plus, it is modeled after the MTS Centre where the arena was publicly supported and the team privately owned,” he said.
According to Asper, this fully integrated business model is the best way to maximize all streams of revenue – both on-field and off. “Clearly, this kind of financial security will allow the club to focus on building a winning dynasty rather than sometimes being distracted by short and longer term financial stresses.”
Also key to the plan is construction of a commercial development, a permanent Blue Bomber Hall of Fame and a new Blue Bomber Touchdown Foundation to support amateur football and important community charities.
“This is a solid business proposal that is fully doable right now,” he said, “with the potential for Phase I construction as early as fall, 2007 followed by stadium completion and inaugural kick off by the fall of 2008.”
1
Key details of the world-class stadium and overall proposal include:
State-of-the Art Stadium
 30,000 – 40,000 fan friendly stadium
 Comfortable seating; spacious legroom
 13 concession stands
 More than sufficient washroom facilities
 24 private suites
 Easy to navigate concourse and access points
 Permanent Blue Bomber Hall of Fame
 Elite fitness training facility
 State-of-the-art Media Centre
 Modern team offices
 Permanent “be a player” fan-interactive exhibition
 Modern Blue Bomber retail operation
Commercial Development
 Two level, 217,000 sq. ft. retail space along Empress
 23,000 sq. ft. restaurant pad
 Seamless fit with surrounding commercial development
 Integrated theme features creating unified sports entertainment and retail complex
Parking and Pedestrian
 Two-level, 2,000 stall parking facility
 Pedestrian circulation system with connections to sidewalks
 Internal transit corridor
 Improved traffic patterning on Empress
 Greater efficiency for events
 Ease of access for all fans
Bomber Pride Experience
 Blue Bomber Walk of Fame
 Interactive fan and Bomber „legends‟ public art installations
 Exterior commemorative displays of Bomber Championships
 „Bomber Fan Fare‟ Transit Corridor and Terminal
 Transit promotion through park & ride programs
Saluting Bombers – Past & Present
 Permanent Blue Bomber Hall of Fame & Exhibition
o Past Presidents invited to serve as first Directors
 Alumni supported heritage retail store
Honouring the Community
 Creation of „Blue Bomber Touchdown Foundation‟
o Permanent new charity to support community projects
o All current Bomber Board members invited to serve as Directors
o First capital donations made with net proceeds from 2006 Grey Cup and from current Bomber Stabilization Fund
2
Engaging the Community
 Partner with Football Manitoba to promote amateur football at all levels
 Facilitate donation of existing artificial surface to Bisons
 Initiate discussions re: refurbished facility at UM
 Create student internships and employment opportunities
 Promote volunteerism with enhanced WFC training programs
 Establish permanent Grey Cup Committee
o To promote Winnipeg & Bombers at Grey Cups throughout Canada
o Serve as a standing Host Committee for future Grey Cups
Built on the existing St. James stadium site, the new facility will be developed in three phases without interrupting football operations during construction:
 Development Plan (Subject to due diligence) Spring 2007
 Phase 1 Start First Half of Stadium Fall 2007
 Phase 2 Start Second Half of Stadium Spring 2008
 Completion Inaugural Kick-off Fall 2008
 Phase 3 Start Retail Development Fall 2009
The lead architect on the proposed new stadium is Raymond S.C. Wan Architect, which has retained the services of HOK, the world‟s leading stadium design architects who are ready to proceed to full development. Other members of the development team include:
 Team leader, Dan Edwards, President of Creswin Properties, the Asper real estate arm
 Legal Team leader Ron Coke of Taylor McCaffrey, LLP
 Accounting and Administration leader, Wayne Pestrak, CA, & Creswin CFO
 Deloitte & Touche LLP as lead financial advisory group
 Communications and Public Affairs led by Barbara Biggar, President, Biggar Ideas
“A new stadium is not just about building a modern, state-of-the-art facility that we, as a community and sports fans deserve,‟‟ Asper said. “It is about developing significant, ongoing sources of revenue that free both the Bombers and taxpayers from long-term financial worry.”
Asper also stressed that the private/public partnership model – where community investors join forces with different levels of government – will ensure construction of a lasting legacy and a strengthened team that will contribute to the growth and vibrancy of our community.
-30-
To arrange an interview with David

[viperred88]

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/story/4062663p-4666215c.html

Many new details revealed on the new Bomber stadium.

It's sounding better every day!
--------------------------------
source: http://www.blueandgold.ca/Message.html
(transcript from his presentation at MTSC on Monday)

David Asper:

Good evening and welcome Bomber fans. Welcome to each of you with us here tonight at the MTS Centre and to fans listening live to Wells & Co. on CJOB 68.

When I look back over the recent history of the Winnipeg Blue Bombers, I know that we wouldn't be here at an event like this tonight if it weren't for the leadership, foresight, determination and dedication of a small group of Manitobans.

This group has toiled, often silently and behind the scenes, on our behalf as fans, through some pretty lean years – all in an effort to keep our great Bombers alive and well.

- To the Boards past and present,
- To the Presidents and Chairmen past and present
- To Lyle Bauer and his staff

Please join me in showing them the thanks they deserve as the off field champions they are.

Also thanks to Marnie Scott and her team of alumni cheerleaders for their enthusiastic involvement in today's event and for the warm welcome they provided to all.

You know, I've been a Bomber fan as long as I can remember – trained by my Dad and my Uncle Aubrey – to be a fan through good years and bad… and that's just what I've done.

Like so many of you, I've been a season ticket holder forever, an exuberant fan and a loyal supporter who always wanted to play an active role in strengthening the team we all love. That's the one thing we all have in common – a passion for and a commitment to our beloved Winnipeg Blue Bombers.

I like to believe we are the best fans in the entire league. Fans that not only need but deserve a strong voice in plans to secure a long-term, stable future for our Bombers. And I've got to tell you – you're not a shy bunch.

Since our development team and I made our formal presentation to the Bomber Board in January, hundreds of fans have button holed me at Bomber games, during my kids hockey games, at social functions and even after funerals…to share thoughts and ideas.

Our website – blueandgold.ca – has been equally busy with over 1,000 individual emails plus nearly 1,500 fan surveys… put online just ten days ago.
I want you to know that I've listened to every conversation, read every single fan survey and read and answered almost every email that you've taken the time to send. Why? Because we're about to enter an exciting new era in the history of our team – and there are no opinions that matter more to me than the opinions of fans.

Fans who put their money down and show up, year after year, to support our Bombers no matter what the weather or the league standings. You're the true investors in our team…that's why I will always refer to this as a community partnership.

I want to assure you that, if this proposal succeeds, our team may no longer be community-owned but it will be more community-minded than ever.

In fact, your opinions on seating, concessions, washrooms, sightlines, game-day and the overall design have already influenced our plans more than you'll ever know.

But before I share the very latest on where we're headed, let's spend just a minute looking at where we've been because it's important to remember that there have been more than a few times in the past two decades when our Bombers faced death defying moments, off field.

With its back against the wall, I hate to think what might have happened if, under the tremendous leadership of our past presidents and their boards of directors, the community had not rallied round to save the team. Even then, without government and taxpayers filling in the gaps, all might have been lost.

It is important for you to know that, after the last financial restructuring in 2000…just 7 years ago…government was clear: “We'll help you one last time but this cannot happen again."

With that mission in mind, the mandate of future boards – myself, Gene Dunn, Ken Hildahl – and of course Lyle Bauer and his management team – was to protect the club from future lean years (and history shows that it will surely happen again) with a long-term, permanent solution.

While Boards past and present have differed on how to move forward, our end goal was always identical – to do what it takes to ensure not just survival but glory for our Bombers. Without question, a new stadium was always integral to a strong, stable future.

An engineering and a second overall feasibility study were conducted by the City and the Bombers themselves – to assess the condition of the existing stadium and offer advice on renovation vs. new construction.

In my mind, the Bomber study is straight to the point:

Spend $30 million on renovations today that would last, at best, just ten more years OR bite the bullet and get on with the job of building a new stadium right away. Knowing that things only get more expensive as time wears on, my views are well known – let's just get on with it and get it done today!

It is no accident that we are here this evening in the MTS Centre. A decade ago when that debate was underway, many questioned whether all three levels of government should contribute to a new privately run sports arena. Thankfully, as a community, we've all benefited, big time, from their willingness to step up to the plate as major contributors.

The fact is that that government got most of its money back even before the doors of this MTS Centre opened for business.

So where's the financial risk to taxpayers? Quite honestly, there isn't. Just rewards – job creation, ongoing tax revenue and the benefits of a strong and growing community that isn't afraid to demonstrate leadership and embrace the future with a can do attitude.

All this is a way to assure you that, if this proposal succeeds, your football club will have, as its new owner, someone who has the financial capacity, business experience, and willingness to take all the risks for bad weather, dismal seasons, injuries, poor ticket sales and economic downturns. Plus, you'll have a fan leading the charge who shares your unremitting passion to see our Blue Bombers succeed over the long-term.

Okay, let's get on with the tour of our proposed new stadium including our most up to date plans and designs created by our lead architect Raymond Wan of Winnipeg with the support of HOK Sport – one of the world's leading stadium design firms.

Keep in mind that this is still very much a work in progress and that all images you'll see are not exact duplicates of what we'll construct …but rather, representations to help you visualize what we have in mind.

Many months in the making and after tens of thousands of miles of travel to look at the latest stadium designs, these plans represent the tireless efforts of our entire development team.

Let's start with a look at the current Polo Park site that we're all familiar with and, again, keep in mind that the original stadium has undergone three significant renovations since 1953 to increase it to its current size.

Next, here's an overlay of where the new stadium will be constructed… with two main entrances right along St. James Street - maintaining both east and west side and end zone configurations exactly as they are now, except just further west on the property. There will be secondary entrances from the parking on the east side of the facility.

Other main exterior features include:

- A two level, 217,000 sf shopping complex running along Empress Street. Already, we have interest far in excess of the space we're constructing including thematically related large merchandisers.

- A 2,400 sf Bomber store will be located right here at the south end of the stadium, just off the concourse and will be complimented by at least 2 novelty stands right inside the stadium. We are also considering adding Bomber merchandise within the food concessions as well, to make it as easy as possible to see and buy your team colours.

- These features will likely more than double the retail shopping experience for ‘all things Bomber' and provide for dynamic merchandising of the products.

- At the corner of Empress and Maroons, room to construct a thematic restaurant & pub or sports lounge.

- Transit corridor off of Empress and interconnecting walkways and pedestrian plazas throughout the site

- Single level parking located right here between the east side of the stadium and the Empress retail development containing between 800 to 1,000 stalls

- A Hall of Fame throughout the stadium concourse will finally allow us to fully pay homage to Bomber greats, and display interesting memorabilia. I know many of you have your own collections, and we intend to provide secure display space both during the season and in the off-season so that you, too, can show your pride

- Finally, a Times Square environment with state of the art interior and exterior multi-media components. The sound system will be, as my kids might say, sweet. This new landmark will be hard to miss.

The bottom line is that we will construct a truly integrated and unified sports entertainment complex… or as I like to call it – Blue Bomber Nation, within one complete city block.
In terms of construction, we are proposing that the stadium be built in three phases without ever missing a single day of football. Here's how we'll accomplish that.

We hope shovels will go in the ground this spring, 2008 with Phase 1 construction during which we'll build the west half of the stadium in what is currently the parking area right along St. James St.

Once the 2008 football season is complete, the existing stadium will be demolished and the site readied for Phase 2 construction of the second half of the stadium – to be built through the winter and spring of 2009.

Phase 3 is construction of the retail development right along Empress on the east edge of the property. The purpose of this development is simple – to provide a year-round source of revenue for the Bombers. That's why it is such a critical component of this project and key to ensuring long-term financial stability for the team.

Come June of 2009 when we hope to complete all construction, spring training will be held in the Bomber's new home followed by the season opener and official kick-off in the summer of 2009.

That's the short and long of construction. Now, come on, let's go inside.

The biggest news is that we're going to dig a bowl resulting in a field below the main Concourse and sunken into the Manitoba gumbo. This will pack a powerful punch when you walk into the concourse at ground level and see the expanse of the field below and before you. Without question, the Bowl will:

- Create a more intimate fan environment
- Provide added shelter from the wind
- Offer a 360 degree view
- Improve sightlines and put fans closer to the action, even from the upper decks.

That's not all. We're proposing a ground level concourse which will:

- Be protected above and on the exterior from the elements
- Offer an open air view of the field
- Create an added sense of space – with a significant improvement over the darkness under the grandstands!!
- Plus, it'll be wide and roomy and provide improved circulation, room to roam and hopefully eliminate line-ups for two of the biggest fan sore points – concessions and washrooms.

Good news female fans. We'll be building 289 bathroom stalls, 6 family rooms and finally provide you with 50% of the facilities – a move that is long overdue considering that women make up almost half of the Bomber fan base.

In terms of concessions, imagine 134 point of sale food & beverage service stations and roaming vendors. That's the service you have long deserved and the service we're proposing.

Our mission – to provide healthy foods, variety and affordability by constructing an on-site commissary and central kitchen as well as bringing in branded food services such as what has been done right here at MTS Center. That's not to mention the food and beverage service in the 10,000 sf club lounge complete with its own washroom facilities.

In terms of private suites, we're proposing approximately 25 in total including both luxury and party suites as well as a separate Alumni and Hall of Fame Hospitality Room. These suites plus the Media Centre would be offered from the 2nd level upper concourse on the west grand stand. And again, our list is already long for corporate and individual fans ready to purchase.

Did I mention 16 loge boxes? To be located at ground level just off the Concourse, they'll be a welcome addition for special events and particularly for any fans with physical disabilities.

The number one fan complaint and it'll come as no surprise to you – seating and legroom – or lack of it as is currently the case.

By now, I hope you've had a chance to try out the new seats we're proposing located just upstairs in the concourse. If they feel roomier, you're bang on the money. That's because we're adding a full half foot of legroom from the standard 27 inch ‘tread' as it is known in the industry to an expansive 33 inch tread.

In terms of seats, all 35,000 will be 21" wide individual seats including a cup holder; 22 inch for club and private suites. No more benches! I long ago lost count of the number of fans who said not to forget these features.

Now let's focus on fan protection from the elements. The bottom line is that 80% of all fans will be under cover while in their seats. We'll accomplish this with overhead canopies and a protected concourse that completely wraps the exterior. Plus, the bowl effect will cut wind and help further reduce exposure to elements. All in all, I truly believe this is the best, most doable option for Winnipeg.

As part of our fan survey, we asked for your suggestions to help ensure the stadium would be used year-round. The ideas are pouring in fast and furious – everything from an ice hotel to a winter wonderland for families and tourists alike. Clearly, year-round use is something that needs further study but know that we're working on it. Plus keep in mind that the whole point of the retail complex is to provide the team with a year-round source of income so that we'll never again have to go to taxpayers asking for a bail out. It's a bit of a new concept for Winnipeg but the surest way to keep the stadium current and the football franchise healthy.

Speaking of money, this seems a good time to discuss where we're at in terms of funding. As you know, I'm prepared to contribute $40 million to the cost of the stadium and another $25 million for the retail development. That funding is secure and already in place.

For some time now, we have been meeting with all levels of government to assist them in conducting their own in-depth due diligence on behalf of taxpayers. That process continues to proceed and we will keep you updated as we have news to report.

In total, we have asked each level of government – provincial and federal – to contribute $40 million. This is based on a model used to construct the MTS Centre – though the numbers are different – it is a model that draws on a combination of government and private sector funds.

It's important to note that based on our projections, prepared by the accounting firm of Deloitte & Touche, the provincial government will recover about a quarter of its investment by the time construction is done and the federal government nearly a third. The remaining investment will be paid back to the province in about 5 years and just over 6 years to the federal government.

The bottom line is that while our payback will not happen quite as quickly as the MTS Centre, it will happen again and in a timely fashion with this project.

The best news for taxpayers as we look to the future? The financial risk will land squarely on my shoulders… and football is not without risk. If injuries plague our team or a severe economic downturn keeps fans away, I am the one who will shoulder the losses, not taxpayers.

With this in mind, I've taken the view that the entire project requires an integrated approach and therefore ownership of the team. From my perspective, it's the only way to maximize opportunities and ensure a strong, stable future for the Bombers.

I think you'll be very comforted when all the agreements are signed, that Manitobans will be fully protected from the potential worries of private ownership. This has been a key part of my proposal from the outset, is an imperative of the current Blue Bomber Board, and the Premier has said it's a condition to any involvement of the provincial government.
None of us ever wants to see our team leave and I'm prepared to sign a deal to guarantee just that.

Two other important elements that I'll touch on just briefly. Our proposal includes creation of a permanent Blue and Gold Foundation that will support, in perpetuity, important community projects.

As well, we plan to do more than simply motivate young football players. We plan to support them by partnering with Football Canada, Football Manitoba, the UM football program and by providing community funding. As an opening gesture, we will donate the current artificial turf to the U of M.

After further consultation with the other organizations occurs, I can assure you that Manitobans will see tangible benefits from our Foundation, and our plan is to make it grow so we can increase the amounts that can be distributed over the years.

Before we open the mics for a discussion, let me close by thanking each of you for taking the time to come this evening and for your continuing support and loyalty to our Blue Bombers.

Winnipeggers have demonstrated time and again that not only can we rise to a challenge, but when we do it together, we can strengthen our community and our reputation as one great city. Remember the vision it took to get the Forks started? The community strength it took to hold off the Flood of the Century?

The truth is -- we're at our best, as Manitobans, when we do things together. It's time to build a new home for the Blue Bombers, time to secure the team's future with year-round revenue sources and time to create a new sense of pride not only for the Bombers but for fans, alumni and the entire community.

I know that I am going to have to earn your support and I am a prepared to do just that…to ensure our beloved Blue Bombers remain as community-minded as ever. This is a huge investment and a risk in terms of money, emotion and importance of the Bombers to our civic identity. I'm going into this with my eyes wide open and am confident that I can make us all proud.

All I ask is that you keep an open mind and considering supporting this proposal so that we can get it done, together!


David Asper

[viperred88]

My opinion

hmm sounds like a great a football stadium my only qualms is it should be built downtown. The city should tell Asper the only way they are gonna give money to build is to build it downtown. And give him a good and comparitive land deal. Much like former mayor Murray told Chipman to build his arena and telling Hydro in order to complete the sale the new office tower will be have to built downtown. Build this stadium is the rezoned and renewed revitilized higgins avenue. I say we should carefully plan this even if it takes 3-10 yrs to get it built in the meantime we can save the money that is for the stadium and invest it in stocks or whatever kind of investment and take it out once we decide on a building date.

Along with that the bombers should have buisiness plan where it would take over the convention centre in this city and build anew and improved convention centre to keep up with new and bigger ones beeing built these days. I believe Edmonton has gotten bigger and I know for sure vancouver has gotten bigger. Wouldn't it make sense to have a convention centre tied in with the bomber stadium for addtional floor space for bigger equipement for example agricultural shows or bigger events that the Mts Centre can't handle. For example the Indinapolis Colts of the National footbal League use there stadium to be tied in with the convention centre. The bombers have to have a buisness model like True North unless True North become partners then it would be even better.

I see only upvalue and potential to be part of many pieces needed to bring downtown to its glory days. Once this stadium and convention centre is built you will see new high rise hotels going up, some residentials going up as well, some retail and restaurants going up also. The whole exchange will cash in from more conventions and game day, Enventually Higgins will be reborn and revitilized because the stadium and convention centre.

While sitting in the stands you will get to see the beautiful city skyline like you do at the goldeyes but in a different angle off course You have the option to boat it the game or convention. The river taxi buisness will pick up and the paddle wheel and red river cruise may as well. All buses route lead to downtown so its easier to not worry about drinking and driving. Again parking won't be an issue as we all know there is plenty of parking dispersed all over the city. As proposed in the stadium there will be 1000 parking stalls.

I would like to see Asper continue with his retail strip mall and have Canad"inns back in the plans for a hotel and water park that was introduced in red river ex stadium proposal.

The one qestion is what would happen with the old convention centre? Good question my solution is turn this building into a hotel/residential and fitness center.

All in all the stadium alone will bring an additional 300 000 more people downtown.

More people,more money more synergy= one great downtown.

[Dalreg]

Size would be too small in my opinion. 35,000 should be more like 45,000. I assume options to expand the stadium would be available?

[trueviking]

Size would be too small in my opinion. 35,000 should be more like 45,000. I assume options to expand the stadium would be available?


45 000 would be way too big....as they have learned in edmonton....empty seats are a bad thing....winnipeg would never average more than 30 000 for the bombers...why have 15 000 empty seats?...

empty seats ruin the atmosphere of the game and you have resort to puting banners over big sections of seats like they do in all the CFL stadia with more than 35 000 seats.

learn from montreal...create demand for a limited number of tickets and provide a full venue with good atmosphere....23 000 in montreal is a lot better than the same number of people in edmonton surrounded by 40 000 empty seats.

i also think downtown is a terrible idea....a stadium is a city killer....used 10 days a year.

i highly doubt that the government (feds in particular) will pony up the money anyways, so really it doesnt matter.

[viperred88]

TV I understand what you are saying but if it were designed with restaurants and stores attached to it like the MTS Center has with Moxies that I am sure it can be done.Attach a strip mall to it like Asper plan at polo park. THen there you have a busy block.

My idea does include a convention centre so that would surely help it from not beeing a dead zone. Heck you would probably have hotels around it or attached to it.



That beeing said the bombers could go back to the drawing board and make convention centre out of it like the Red river ex proposal had although it wasn't a convention centre but it had exhibition hall attached to it same shit but different pile. The bombers and cfl won't die because they don't have a new stadium but should build one in 3 to 10 yrs from now and plan it well.

I also think Asper plan at polio park will die because the feds won't back it beeing it will only be used 10 times a year. Whoever whines about that is an idiot of simple economics.


30 000 seats is good enough for me. hmmm I wonder if wish they had heated seats

45 000 would be way too big....as they have learned in edmonton....empty seats are a bad thing....winnipeg would never average more than 30 000 for the bombers...why have 15 000 empty seats?...

empty seats ruin the atmosphere of the game and you have resort to puting banners over big sections of seats like they do in all the CFL stadia with more than 35 000 seats.

learn from montreal...create demand for a limited number of tickets and provide a full venue with good atmosphere....23 000 in montreal is a lot better than the same number of people in edmonton surrounded by 40 000 empty seats.

i also think downtown is a terrible idea....a stadium is a city killer....used 10 days a year.

i highly doubt that the government (feds in particular) will pony up the money anyways, so really it doesnt matter.

[wags_in_the_peg]

Asper has a back-up plan if Feds don't pony up. More $ from city? more $ from Prov? More $ from big brother or sister?

[dennis]

We may need over 40000 seats if we would like to host a Grey Cup game. What about room for a temporary setup?

[Kitty Surprise]

My idea does include a convention centre so that would surely help it from not beeing a dead zone. Heck you would probably have hotels around it or attached to it.

That beeing said the bombers could go back to the drawing board and make convention centre out of it like the Red river ex proposal had although it wasn't a convention centre but it had exhibition hall attached to it same shit but different pile. The bombers and cfl won't die because they don't have a new stadium but should build one in 3 to 10 yrs from now and plan it well.

30 000 seats is good enough for me. hmmm I wonder if wish they had heated seats

I agree with viperred... I think a downtown stadium - whether attached in some way to the convention centre - or on its own in a reborn Higgins/Waterfront district -would be the best option. The direct/indirect business spinoffs and additional off-peak traffic will further help to revitalize our downtown.

Is there sufficient space to build a 30,000 seat stadium directly south of the Convention Centre? Would/Could Winnipeg consider closing portions of streets to make a larger block for a larger building such as a stadium there? Hmm.

A covered downtown stadium could be used for more than 10 days a year, no?

[h0twired]

I agree with viperred... I think a downtown stadium - whether attached in some way to the convention centre - or on its own in a reborn Higgins/Waterfront district -would be the best option. The direct/indirect business spinoffs and additional off-peak traffic will further help to revitalize our downtown.

Is there sufficient space to build a 30,000 seat stadium directly south of the Convention Centre? Would/Could Winnipeg consider closing portions of streets to make a larger block for a larger building such as a stadium there? Hmm.

A covered downtown stadium could be used for more than 10 days a year, no?

A downtown stadium would require the space of about 6 square blocks downtown. A project of that size would require the demolition of a TON of real estate and the removal of several roadways.

Take a look at Google Maps at the current CanadInns Stadium. It has a huge footprint.

[Marc B.]

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/8936/675dalaixl4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[1ajs]

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/8936/675dalaixl4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


:banaride:

now thats gota be one of the most oddest things to find on the freeps site

[Andy6]

A downtown stadium would require the space of about 6 square blocks downtown. A project of that size would require the demolition of a TON of real estate and the removal of several roadways.

Take a look at Google Maps at the current CanadInns Stadium. It has a huge footprint.

It seems like a non-starter. Where are the business spinoffs from the MTS Centre? They are meagre at best. How would demolishing a huge tract of downtown for a facility that was used far less often, and which would definitely require a lot of parking, be any more "revitalizing"?

[viperred88]

hmm lets see restaurants are benefiting from it and the MTS center, it does bring in night live. It doesn"t just take one project to make downtown better it takes several to cater to different kinds of interest.

Besides it works in major cities.

a convention tied in to the football stadium is magic pill to make this stadium feasible and profitable to the convention centre as they can hold big convention like tractor shows, motocross, greenhouse market convention, a stadium rock concert just to make a few examples as to what the convention centre could be benefitting from. For example tHe red river ex proposal was something similar.


I tell ya winnipegers gotta plan ahead for major projects like this and not just build for the spur of moment without any more forethought.
It seems like a non-starter. Where are the business spinoffs from the MTS Centre? They are meagre at best. How would demolishing a huge tract of downtown for a facility that was used far less often, and which would definitely require a lot of parking, be any more "revitalizing"?

[viperred88]

It seems like a non-starter. Where are the business spinoffs from the MTS Centre? They are meagre at best. How would demolishing a huge tract of downtown for a facility that was used far less often, and which would definitely require a lot of parking, be any more "revitalizing"?

parking is not a factor as there is plenty all over downtown and Centre Ventre is planning on building more parkades. The parking needs will probably go down slightly as most bus route lead downtown as people will opt to use a bus rather than drive. Free transit if you have a bomber ticket is beeing done today already.

[viperred88]

I agree with viperred... I think a downtown stadium - whether attached in some way to the convention centre - or on its own in a reborn Higgins/Waterfront district -would be the best option. The direct/indirect business spinoffs and additional off-peak traffic will further help to revitalize our downtown.

Is there sufficient space to build a 30,000 seat stadium directly south of the Convention Centre? Would/Could Winnipeg consider closing portions of streets to make a larger block for a larger building such as a stadium there? Hmm.

A covered downtown stadium could be used for more than 10 days a year, no?


Actuallymy first option was rebuild the whole convention centre area. A bigger and new convention centre is needed to be competitive with other major cities. I believe there is too many streets downtown that kill room for major complexes. I don't see why the city wouldn't consider since people are adjusted to edmonton street taken away when portage place was built.

[Andy6]

Actuallymy first option was rebuild the whole convention centre area. A bigger and new convention centre is needed to be competitive with other major cities. I believe there is too many streets downtown that kill room for major complexes. I don't see why the city wouldn't consider since people are adjusted to edmonton street taken away when portage place was built.

And where would the money come from for a new convention centre? You're talking hundreds of millions. Is Winnipeg really in the running for large conventions anyway?

[Greco Roman]

All I have to say is............................go big Blue?

[viperred88]

And where would the money come from for a new convention centre? You're talking hundreds of millions. Is Winnipeg really in the running for large conventions anyway?

And where would the money come from for a new convention centre? You're talking hundreds of millions. Is Winnipeg really in the running for large conventions anyway?


if the Red River Ex proposal for a stadium and exhibition space into one building is any indication then I think the Convention Centre should get its head out of sand and take notice. If the ex ends up building there own exhibition building then I would say they have lost out on some conventions.


What I propose is several partnerships to build this stadium. The bombers (Asper), the convention centre and hopefully True North (that way the bombers could hold out doors events without offending True North besides they do an exellent job in getting acts into the MTS Center and thats there speciality.


As I said before the indianoplis colts have a stadium linked to there convention centre. It make only $$$ to make a stadium that has multi-uses instead of 10 football days the stadium would pay for itself in the long run.


the land where the present stadium is high value land that could easily sold for alot money, then inturn that money would be used to build world class stadium that the bomber fans deserve.

[Greco Roman]

Woo hoo! Great game boys, but very gut-wrenching at the end!

[Only The Lonely..]

Good time, it's nice to see we had some divine intervention from the Dalai Lama.

[Corndogger]

And where would the money come from for a new convention centre? You're talking hundreds of millions. Is Winnipeg really in the running for large conventions anyway?

If they don't have proper facilities they never will be. As for where the money will come they should get it from the same place Toronto gets their's from--the Federal Government. Is Toronto the only place in the country worthy and capable of holding large conventions?

[Andy6]

If they don't have proper facilities they never will be. As for where the money will come they should get it from the same place Toronto gets their's from--the Federal Government. Is Toronto the only place in the country worthy and capable of holding large conventions?

Even Toronto has trouble attracting large conventions due to U.S. security issues that make it a headache to bring U.S. delegates across the border (e.g. they now all have to hold passports). The high dollar will finish the job of destroying U.S. convention business in Canada. Winnipeg is a very small and obscure city by North American standards and unlikely to attract conventions of a size that can't be handled by the existing facilities.

[ceedub1170]

I don't think you guys deserve a new stadium. You can't even come close to selling out a playoff game.

[Only The Lonely..]

I don't think you guys deserve a new stadium. You can't even come close to selling out a playoff game.

Mneh, if you saw the way the Bombers had been playing for their last 4 games you woulda been hesistant about going too.

I'm pleased to say I went to the game, but the weather wasn't very nice in the second deck.