[Wooster]

Come on guys. I know there are some out there that haven't voted yet. Get to it! :whip:

FYI: Sasso has zero votes. :haha:

[JBinCalgary]

got my vote for chocolate

[skrish]

Voted for Citadel, but I wish it was a bit taller.

[JBinCalgary]

FYI: Sasso has zero votes. :haha:
as it should

[ssiguy]

I'm glad to hear that it isn't as big a problem as I thought but it will become worse as apt continue to be transferred over to condos and no new rentals being constructed yet the population is swelling.

BTW, Alberta also has significantly higher tuition rates than NFLD, Manitoba, and Quebec.

[ssiguy]

I agree, the province should pay for the whole cost, it is their responsibility.
Also once a city helps pay for anything that the province has complete responsibility for, the precedent has been set.

Also with Cal/Edm getting new money which will probably go mostly to transit/LRT and with incoming funds from the feds plus the ussual amount from the city itself has the idea of greatly lowering the transit fares/passes been discussed.

[Doug]

Students and other short term renters are harmed by rent control. In general, rent control only benefits existing, long term renters such as seniors. Typically, rent control legislation excludes some buildings or permits landlords to raise rents only when the tenant moves out. This discourages tenants from moving out of rent controlled buildings and when they do the rents rise, often disproportionately to compensate for the units that are renting at submarket rates.

Stats Can has Alberta tuitions at fourth lowest in the country: http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/060901/d060901a.htm. These figure would not account for differences in programs of enrollment as I would bet Alberta has a higher proportion of students enrolled in more expensive programs like engineering.

[Stephen Ave]

I went with Citadel. Losing that dated ugly building was almost enough on it's own, but Citadel turned out to be a great looking building on top of that. To me the vote seemd a no-brainer.

[mersar]

I highly doubt we'll see that even proposed. Any money thats coming is being dedicated for infrastructure, not operations, and as they said was a condition not tax cuts either. In reality expanding the system increases costs relative to the expansion size, so I'd predict we'd likely see another fare hike by the the the WLRT is even close to being done.

[YYCguys]

No. Build it downtown. Needs to be build within 7 years, for the time the lease expires with northlands. Building downtown benefits the whole city as the centrality of the location.
West ed already has plans for a convention center and a mini-arena for about 5000 people.

I hope, but seriously doubt, those WEM owners are going to actually follow through with the plans for the convention centre/arena/hotel additions. They haven't been keeping up with the times and are letting the mall go to pieces. They probably are taking the profits and lining their own pockets instead of reinvesting some of it in what could be a very valuable asset.

Speaking of those plans, is it true that development permits for WEM expansion were applied for at some point in the past? Where can I access the DP information? Anybody have a link for this poor Calgarian who's tried to find it in the City of Edm website and failed?

[feepa]

I hope, but seriously doubt, those WEM owners are going to actually follow through with the plans for the convention centre/arena/hotel additions. They haven't been keeping up with the times and are letting the mall go to pieces. They probably are taking the profits and lining their own pockets instead of reinvesting some of it in what could be a very valuable asset.

Speaking of those plans, is it true that development permits for WEM expansion were applied for at some point in the past? Where can I access the DP information? Anybody have a link for this poor Calgarian who's tried to find it in the City of Edm website and failed?

I'm thinking 2002 Oct... is a good place to start. Or there abouts. I think thats when the DP came out...

[freeweed]

I'd predict we'd likely see another fare hike by the the the WLRT is even close to being done.

Quite frankly, fares will be in the $10 range by the time the WLRT is built, just due to inflation.

I've been here, on and off, for 4 years now. 4 years ago it was painfully obvious that the city needed to expand the LRT system. Expand the lines outward, go to 4 (and maybe 5) car platforms, put in some new lines. I've now witnessed 4 years of the best financial prosperity in Canada's history - AND THEY'RE STILL ONLY TALKING.

Seriously. Toronto, a city just basically breaking even, gets a billion dollars from the feds for mass transit (can you spell "buying Ontario votes", Mr Harper? I knew you could). Calgary FINALLY will see some money, in another few years. Enough money to expand the system out like it should have been done 10 years ago.

All of these plans and forecasts for the WLRT, SELRT, and all the rest of the work - this all assumed Calgary would be growing at a measly rate. No one anticipated this growth, and they haven't done a thing to address it. Until Bronco, or Stelmach, or whoever (I no longer care, I just want to hear some actuall PROGRESS happening) announces the WLRT is actually being started - I'm not holding my breath.

They've had years to plan this. Decades, even. Let's get the fucking thing started already before this city collapses under its own weight. I believe the current schedule has the LRT expansion finally done when Calgary hits 2 million people - has it not occured to the city that the system will STILL be inadequate at that point? The work planned is just barely enough to make the system usable NOW, let alone 20 years from now. :hell:

[You Need A Thneed]

but i would love an overpass at 16th Ave and 19th St NE... there is no reason why that should remain a stoplight intersection and it just irritates me when i have to get into queue between Barlow and 36th St during rush hour... :(

I would love to see something done at that intersection as well, plus some flyover ramps at 16th and Deerfoot - so there are no lights from coming from the East getting onto Deerfoot, or from Deerfoot going east on 16th.

Its such a shame to have 5 or 6 kilometres of freeway have one light just before you get onto another freeway.

[Coldrsx]

WEM has new Segway shop
The Edmonton Journal
Published: Friday, March 09, 2007

EDMONTON - Segway of Alberta and Enviroglide Rentals have opened a sales and rental outlet in West Edmonton Mall.

The attraction provides training by Segway-certified instructors, and test drives of the battery-powered Segway PT, a self-balancing two-wheeled device.

Enviroglide is located on the lower level near Chapters book store.
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Also, WEM has announced tentative plans to offer guided mall tours -- on Segways.


© The Edmonton Journal 2007

[Fiveway]

Re: Calgary Sun poll

It astounds me to think that so many Calgarians honestly believe that their quality of life will improve by building more or bigger roads.

[frinkprof]

Re: Calgary Sun poll

It astounds me to think that so many Calgarians honestly believe that their quality of life will improve by building more or bigger roads.
Really? Have you seen people that read the Sun?

[CMD UW]

Re: Calgary Sun poll

It astounds me to think that so many Calgarians honestly believe that their quality of life will improve by building more or bigger roads.
It is bizarre....we'd get the same response in Edmonton.

And I agree with finkprof....look at who 'reads' the Sun.

[lubicon]

Re: Calgary Sun poll

It astounds me to think that so many Calgarians honestly believe that their quality of life will improve by building more or bigger roads.

Mine will, and I don't read the Sun.

[IntotheWest]

Also, WEM has announced tentative plans to offer guided mall tours -- on Segways.



"Guided mall tours" - is this really popular??

[IntotheWest]

It looks like Citadel is a possible leader in this. I actually voted the Children's hospital - love the colours.

I also thought the Health Research Centre was quite nice.

It's no surprise about Sasso...I'm glad it went up to help kick-start condos in that area, but is far from a nice looking building. I'm just wondering with Vetro, if it will look better or worse...or, a maybe Nuera will just balance it out (I really like Nuera).

[Me&You]

Mine will, and I don't read the Sun.

Agreed. My life would greatly improve with better roads. I don't read the Sun either.

If I didn't spend so much time stuck in traffic, I would have more time to stroll around my home (mission), adding my own brand of vibrancy, supporting the businesses in the area, etc. Instead, when I'm required to do something that should realistically be a 1/2 hour round trip and it turns into a 2 hour cluster-fuck, that affects my quality of life.

There's alot of road-hating, for road-hating sakes on this site. I'm not advocating building freeways everywhere, but let's do some head removing from asses around here. Roads aren't just for personal vehicles. What about all of the commercial and transit traffic that are being thrown off schedule/delayed etc. Every person in those vehicles is having their quality of life (free time) chipped away at.

[ReginaGuy]

I really like the Vento, Citaldel West, Chocolate and Brava.. I couldn't decide :P The only one I didn't really like was the children's hospital. Not my cup of tea

Citaldel reminds me of a building here in Regina, which is also one of my favourite buildings. Citaldel is better tho

[The Chemist]

There's alot of road-hating, for road-hating sakes on this site. I'm not advocating building freeways everywhere, but let's do some head removing from asses around here. Roads aren't just for personal vehicles. What about all of the commercial and transit traffic that are being thrown off schedule/delayed etc. Every person in those vehicles is having their quality of life (free time) chipped away at.

Full agreement here. For a perfect example of road hating for the sake of road hating, this....

Wow, great news for Calgary and Edmonton. Make sure to spend it on transit and making your city better for people instead of building new interchanges. In fact, you should be spending money getting rid of some of them

...is a perfect example. Get rid of interchanges? Why? So people can sit in traffic even longer, and goods can't get to where they need to go? News Flash - Calgary is a western North American city. You're never going to turn it into a transit-centric European one. Ever. You can get rid of all the roads and interchanges you want, and all you'll do is make people mad.

We need a balanced approach. More transit, yes, but the road network needs to be improved too.

[greenboy]

Chocolate is a great all-rounder.

[Arriviste]

I went with Vento.
I'm a big fan of the wood. Great combo of res and retail as well. I wish there was more glazing but thats cool.

[e909]

BTW, Alberta also has significantly higher tuition rates than NFLD, Manitoba, and Quebec.
So what? It's still cheap.

[Bassic Lab]

To the best of my knowledge, there has been talk back and forth on the issue. If you ask MRC, they might say they are in the "final stages" and if you ask the provincial government, they might say otherwise. In fact, the last concrete thing I remember reading on the issue was Ralph Klein saying something to the effect of "Mount Royal College getting university status is not on the agenda and I don't believe that Calgary or Alberta is in need of another university at this time." Whether that changes with the boom, the new premier, or the passage of time, I'm not sure.

I'm of the opinion that these plans to turn MRC into some kind of psuedo university are greatly flawed. There is a need for the services that MRC renders, that of a community college, but there isn't a need for the kind of two tiered degree system that would result in making it a university lite. An MRC degree would never be worth a UofC degree and that would be wrong. If MRC were upgraded enough to make it worth while we would simply need a new community college type institution.

I'd favour a new University, at full University standard, being developed. It would primarily centre on the liberal arts and would include a real graduate program for subjects in the humanities and social sciences. It wouldn't require a business school or engineering since the UofC already fills those areas well. The city just really requires another institution, the UofC is already stuffed, taking mostly Calgary students, hell the UofL is becoming more and more a Calgary school, because the city simply doesn't have enough spaces for the kids it produces. A university shouldn't be like that, it should have a signifigant number of students from else where, to give it a proper diversity of ideas. In any case the new school would be purpose biult as a university, with all the resources it would require to achieve that, and with out the extra baggage that an institution like MRC carries to achieve its ends.

[Lee_Haber8]

Full agreement here. For a perfect example of road hating for the sake of road hating, this....



...is a perfect example. Get rid of interchanges? Why? So people can sit in traffic even longer, and goods can't get to where they need to go? News Flash - Calgary is a western North American city. You're never going to turn it into a transit-centric European one. Ever. You can get rid of all the roads and interchanges you want, and all you'll do is make people mad.

We need a balanced approach. More transit, yes, but the road network needs to be improved too.

I think you have to realize that Calgary will never be the great city you want it to be if car drivers are always being given priority over pedestrians, cyclists and transit. I think we all know that city's need a system of streets for transportation and goods, but we can't forget who those transportation and goods are serving and that is people. People are always the ends, and if you're means of servicing them with goods such as freeways actually ends up making their lives less enjoyable then you're not accomplishing anything.

A goal of any society should be so that every city has an equal opportunity to succeed an be happy in life. With this kind of society comes human rights, a justice system, quality public education, but also city planning. A goal of any city should be to plan in a way that provides equal opportunity for all citizens.When you plan for cars you are only planning for those who can drive and afford cars. What happens to those who can't drive such as young people and seniors or those who can't afford a car such as poor people? They get marginalized, losing mobility which makes life much less enjoyable. When you plan for pedestrians, you are planning for everyone regardless of age or income.

I haven't even gotten into all the more pragmatic reasons why a private automobile culture is bad such as pollution. What's really wrong about cars is not the actually cars themselves but the way they are used and treated. I have absolutely no problem with taxi cabs and I have no problem with vehicles that move slowly in four lane mixed-use streets.

Many people use goods movement as an argument for building things like freeways, but that fact is only a very small portion of vehicles actually end up using them. Also, everybody assumes that all goods have to be moved by semi-trucks. Whatever happened to rail? Rail is a much more efficient way of moving goods long distances. Trucks are only desirable because the infrastructure they used is maintained by the public purse. Yeah, the goods will have to be on trucks at some point, but who says they have to be semi-trucks, and who says they have to be going at 100km/h through cities? What really slows down freight operations is not the speed of the vehicles, but delays at delivery and transfer. For example, let's say that a truck has to go 15km for a delivery. If it is going at a speed of 40 km/h it will arrive before than if it went 100 km/h and the transfer took 15 min longer.

The point I'm trying to make is that all of Calgary's pseudo-freeways or 'trails' as you like to call the are a huge blight to the city and render the city ugly and void of any vibrancy. It seems like a city built for efficient car movement instead of enjoyment. What the city I think needs to do is convert those trails into normal streets with sidewalks, shops and people, and get rid of those goddamn interchanges. Having pedestrian overpasses does not make an area pedestrian friendly - it just says that the street is as much of a barrier as a river. If Calgary actually wants to become 'great' it's going to need to make some decisions which will seem unpopular, at least at first

[Xelebes]

You also realise you have to build to transport goods and people (bus). They have to develop for both the vehicle and the pedestrian - otherwise you're not getting anything anywhere fast. Roads have to be built, buses have to be funded, rail has to be maintained. Interchanges are necessary.

[Aralaus]

woot! moot point on the hospital, gov just announced they will fund hospital... :P

[Lee_Haber8]

You also realise you have to build to transport goods and people (bus). They have to develop for both the vehicle and the pedestrian - otherwise you're not getting anything anywhere fast. Roads have to be built, buses have to be funded, rail has to be maintained. Interchanges are necessary.

Outside of cities, not in them. Have you ever heard of this thing called an intersection. Both cars and pedestrians use it to cross or change onto another street -it's amazing!

[Xelebes]

Outside of cities, not in them. Have you ever heard of this thing called an intersection. Both cars and pedestrians use it to cross or change onto another street -it's amazing!

Yes, that works for lower traffic volumes. But at higher traffic volumes winding down from the highways, they serve as a great nuisance and back the highway up.

[Policy Wonk]

In the circles I frequent Mount Royal graduates with their Applied Degree in Policy Studies are very highly saught after. U of C is reguarded as just another "not horrible" large school. Nothing about seeing U of C on a resume would garner a second look. An MRC graduate who did social sciences there would get a second look.

Many MRC graduates with their applied degrees in Policy Studies have also been accepted into Masters programs in Public Administration.

But it is really a pretty stupid debate, given MRC faculty have been delivering a complete university level program for some time, the degree is just granted by Athabasca University.

[psych1]

"Guided mall tours" - is this really popular??
On Segways yet! I gotta say, that would be very funny to see. :haha:

[vid]

"And on your left, Starbucks. On the right, starbucks. Here you see a vacant store front. And down the hall is Zellers. :) Did you enjoy the tour??"


Our largest mall organises a large walking tour for seniors to get exercise. They walk the entire course of the mall, go upstairs then downstairs then eat salads for breakfast. :) You have never seen so much pink and sky blue hair in your life.

[m0nkyman]

WEM has new Segway shop
The Edmonton Journal
Published: Friday, March 09, 2007

EDMONTON - Segway of Alberta and Enviroglide Rentals have opened a sales and rental outlet in West Edmonton Mall.


Seeing a Segway is the best reason to go to WEM since I got here....

[biggiebear]

On the weekends I drive a shuttle from YYC to Banff-Lake Louise and back and usually on the return trip someone notices the hospital and it has been getting a lot of pictures taken the tourists are impressed with the design and the immensity of it. It is quickly becoming a landmark building for Calgary. Most of the busses take Countyry Hills in to the airport and out. I always take Memorial. In my opinion you have these tourists coming from around the world, let's show off our beautiful downtown. But unfortunately we still have to go through Montgomery lol.:tup:

[YYCguys]

Voted for Brava because it catches my eye from all different angles. It has great lines and is a very interesting design.

Thanks to all involved in the voting site. Looks great! Any front runners yet?

[YYCguys]

"And on your left, Starbucks. On the right, starbucks. Here you see a vacant store front. And down the hall is Zellers. :) Did you enjoy the tour??"


Our largest mall organises a large walking tour for seniors to get exercise. They walk the entire course of the mall, go upstairs then downstairs then eat salads for breakfast. :) You have never seen so much pink and sky blue hair in your life.


HAHAHAHA!!!!! :jester:

[ProudlyCanadian]

I voted for Vento.

:)

[mersar]

Josh has hinted before about it, and even after all this time he earlier comment holds true. It ain't what you would expect.

And make sure you confirm the vote by clicking the link thats emailed to you. Roughly 20% of the votes are sitting unconfirmed, and as such aren't included until they are confirmed.

[Arriviste]

On the weekends I drive a shuttle from YYC to Banff-Lake Louise and back and usually on the return trip someone notices the hospital and it has been getting a lot of pictures taken the tourists are impressed with the design and the immensity of it. It is quickly becoming a landmark building for Calgary. Most of the busses take Countyry Hills in to the airport and out. I always take Memorial. In my opinion you have these tourists coming from around the world, let's show off our beautiful downtown. But unfortunately we still have to go through Montgomery lol.:tup:

I love the hospital. I think he reason for this love is that it was designed with such focus upon pleasing those most affected by it. It really caters to its patrons which is so key. It might be loud, and become dated quickly, but right now its a superb building.
When I was taking the pics for the web site, the rental cop gave me some serious trouble about taking pics. I handed him a copy of the photographers rights, said that I was with CUI, and walked away. I couldn't believe the nerve of the guy to approach me and accuse me of malice. Quite rude.

[Just Build It]

I really like the Vento, Citaldel West, Chocolate and Brava.. I couldn't decide :P The only one I didn't really like was the children's hospital. Not my cup of tea

Citaldel reminds me of a building here in Regina, which is also one of my favourite buildings. Citaldel is better tho

Citadel reminds me of the Crown life building in Regina.

[Boris2k7]

I couldn't help it. I was originally going to throw my vote to Citadel West or Chocolate... it ended up going to the Vento. Not only for its eclectic beauty, but also for what it promotes: atttractive, medium-density, mixed-use buildings.

A big thanks to everyone who got this project off the ground. I obviously couldn't help that much in the end due to my schoolwork, but I am glad that some of my photos are there. Rob, Mersar, Jeff, Josh and Arriviste especially, thanks for the great work.

[niwell]

I went with Vento. The street level treatment plus environmental considerations puts it above and beyond IMO.

And my picture (I think at least) being on the website for the building makes no bearing, I swear!

[Champion3]

Full agreement here. For a perfect example of road hating for the sake of road hating, this....



...is a perfect example. Get rid of interchanges? Why? So people can sit in traffic even longer, and goods can't get to where they need to go? News Flash - Calgary is a western North American city. You're never going to turn it into a transit-centric European one. Ever. You can get rid of all the roads and interchanges you want, and all you'll do is make people mad.

We need a balanced approach. More transit, yes, but the road network needs to be improved too.
I am somewhat in agreement with you guys from the following perspective:

Transit moves people, not goods
While I am opposed to the feedback loop of constantly widening freeways (and the ever-increasing traffic that accompanies them), I do support the removal of bottlenecks in the existing system. I am of the opinion that a well designed, free flowing freeway with six core lanes is sufficient.
I also think that communities need to be better designed as a counterbalance to the freeway. I'm in the southern end of Shawnessy and it takes me 10 minutes to get out of my neighbourhood by car because of the street layout. With the exception of a few neighbourhoods, the suburbs are crap.

[brento79]

:cheers: Edmonton's property market roars ahead

ELIZABETH CHURCH

Globe and Mail Update

What western city has the fastest-growing real estate market? If you think it's Calgary, think again.

Edmonton, the City of Champions that has struggled for more than two decades to live down its “Deadmonton” image, is elbowing out Calgary as the hottest property market.

Office rents are skyrocketing, bidding wars for houses are becoming the norm and prime office space in downtown towers is getting gobbled up by companies in expansion mode.

“This is unpredicted,” said Richard Corriveau, an economist for Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp. who follows the Alberta market. “We are seeing a level of growth that was essentially unfathomable just 18 months ago.”

The average house price in the city has reached $375,412, a 52-per-cent increase from the same time last year and well above the national average. New-home prices increased 40 per cent between January of this year and last, according to Statistics Canada. Office space that was renting for less than $10 a square foot, and as low as $5, just a few years ago is now going for $25.

“There is some sticker shock,” says Dave Young, managing director in the Edmonton office of real estate service firm CB Richard Ellis. “But this is still a great place to do business. People are paying the rent and staying where they are.”

Mr. Young can relate. He just renewed his own space in Edmonton's Manulife Place at double the price. But he figures in a few months he'll look lucky with his new rate of about $26 a foot. “I think absolutely we'll see $30 this year in the best buildings.”

Those rates, while not as high as Calgary or Toronto, represent a hockey-stick trajectory for the city. Indeed, Edmonton is showing up at the top of the heap in several 2007 forecasts for both the housing and commercial sector.

“It's going to be the pace setter for the country,” predicts Sandy McNair, president of Altus InSite Real Estate Information Systems Inc., which tracks the commercial property market. Demand for office and industrial space in the city is jumping as more firms that service the oil patch use the city as a base, Mr. McNair said.

Calgary made headlines last year with its phenomenal housing boom and an office market that struggled to cope with the lowest vacancy rates on the planet. But most expect growth in prices and rents to moderate in Calgary this year. In Edmonton, the expansion is still in full swing as service firms scramble to keep up with demand and workers use their rising wages to buy bigger homes.

An influx of new residents as well as investors who figure the real estate run in Calgary has pretty much played out, are also pushing up prices, industry watchers say.

So is Edmonton the new Calgary?

“I'm not going there,” says Scott Hutcheson, chief executive officer of Calgary-based Aspen Properties Ltd., one of Edmonton's largest office landlords. “There is a real rivalry between the two cities. I wouldn't put it that way.”

What Mr. Hutcheson will say is that when he began buying buildings in 2003, the Edmonton market had been battered by one blow after another. First, there was the meltdown of the oil industry in the 1980s, which was followed by overbuilding in the office sector, government downsizing and the loss of some major employers.

“It became a difficult place to believe in,” said Mr. Hutcheson, who was told when he began investing in the city that double-digit rents would never happen. “Ten dollars was regarded as the ceiling.”

Since then, Mr. Hutcheson said the city has undergone a transformation in business confidence.

Ken Shearer, who has sold homes in the Edmonton market since the 1970s and owns five Royal LePage offices in the area, says the market is very different from Calgary and that makes comparisons difficult. Edmonton traditionally hasn't had the head offices and the big houses of Calgary, and its buyers have been conservative. But he sees that changing. The number of million-dollar homes is rising and he says the people buying them are younger, with tastes that favour “jazzy pools and hot tubs.”

“We are in uncharted territory,” Mr. Shearer said. “It's the oil thing.”

Murray Lange, Aspen's general manager in Edmonton, cautions that the city's office market is small compared with other cities such as Toronto or Calgary and for that reason it also can change quickly. Vacancy rates for prime space ended last year at about 4.5 per cent, but it would only take a few big leases to eat up that space, he said. On the other hand, he said downtown buildings could be vulnerable to development in the suburbs.

But he expects major revitalization efforts will keep downtown space in demand and prices rising. “We've come to a turning point,” he said. “It's about time. We were getting a little tired of waiting.”

[ExcaliburKid]

Finally, some National exposure :tup:

[Coldrsx]

great article...


and since dec31/06...we are already up 9.1% this yr.....people expected 15% now expect 25-30% price increases which should put us pretty close to calgary and above toronto.

[ScottFromCalgary]

Wow, great news for Calgary and Edmonton. Make sure to spend it on transit and making your city better for people instead of building new interchanges. In fact, you should be spending money getting rid of some of them

I would love to see a politician in Calgary or Edmonton propose this "solution" just to see the shitstorm that would follow. I can't really comment on the merits of the proposal from a technical perspective since I have no formal education in urban planning, but seriously, it would be fuckin hilarious to see what the half retarded media (I'm looking at you Gord Gillies) would have to say. No doubt it would be a career killer for the poor politician who dared to bring it up.

[feepa]

great article...


and since dec31/06...we are already up 9.1% this yr.....people expected 15% now expect 25-30% price increases which should put us pretty close to calgary and above toronto.
upside for people who are current owners and even more so for potential sellers.
downside for people who aren't and are planning to, and people moving from cheaper markets.

[brento79]

People like me how moved here last fall are screwed.

[240glt]

People like me how moved here last fall are screwed

Y'know, not necessarily. You can still buy an older house downtown for around $200k, and older resale condos are still relatively affordable

Sure if you only make $60k a year and have your heart set on a big house in Triwilligar or a penthouse in the ICON you are most likely screwed, but modest housing in Edmonton is still affordable.

[basilbrush]

There is not alot of selection in the 200k range for resale houses. You'd be lucky if it didn't require some foundation repair or other modernizing that would probably add near 50k to the initial price.

And yes, the resale condo market is still very affordable. Although you need to be cautious because a majority of them are apartment building conversions with high condo fees.

[ExcaliburKid]

And yes, the resale condo market is still very affordable. Although you need to be cautious because a majority of them are apartment building conversions with high condo fees.

A reality I know all too well :haha:

[Rusty van Reddick]

Please correct the thread title- this is from the Globe, not the National Post.

[chuber]

upside for people who are current owners and even more so for potential sellers.
downside for people who aren't and are planning to, and people moving from cheaper markets.

It actually isn't really a good thing for most current owners unless they own multiple properties, or like many of the idiots on my block that just like to brag about how much your place is worth. Unfortunately for many people like myself, the house I live in my be worth 500 grand now, but I may never be able to upgrade because to make a decent upgrade I now need to spend an extra 300 grand instead of and extra 100-150 grand 3-4 years ago.

[Coldrsx]

Please correct the thread title- this is from the Globe, not the National Post.

best reply ever...how about "good on you edmonton, congrats"


but no


"please correct the thread title"


:shrug: :koko:

[Coldrsx]

It actually isn't really a good thing for most current owners unless they own multiple properties, or like many of the idiots on my block that just like to brag about how much your place is worth. Unfortunately for many people like myself, the house I live in my be worth 500 grand now, but I may never be able to upgrade because to make a decent upgrade I now need to spend an extra 300 grand instead of and extra 100-150 grand 3-4 years ago.

yup...im pretty much stuck in a condo until

a: 2nd income
b: save up for 5 yrs
c: win lotto

but thats ok, i think people in Edmonton have had it too good for too long and now realize that you can be happy with a smaller house or condo. I have had too many friends under 30 who went from a condo to a 1200sqft to a 1800sqft to a 2300sqft now cause "they felt it was small".....

i have 770sqft and dont need more, sure i could use more for gold storage and the ferrari collection, but i dont need more.

[murman]

best reply ever...how about "good on you edmonton, congrats"


but no


"please correct the thread title"


:shrug: :koko:

Cut the perfesser some slack... must be in the middle of grading papers.

[Coldrsx]

Cut the perfesser some slack... must be in the middle of grading papers.

he gets an F from me.

[240glt]

There is not alot of selection in the 200k range for resale houses. You'd be lucky if it didn't require some foundation repair or other modernizing that would probably add near 50k to the initial price.

And yes, the resale condo market is still very affordable. Although you need to be cautious because a majority of them are apartment building conversions with high condo fees

Yes, to buy an older house for $200-250 you'll probably be looking at some upgrading, but what do you want for a fist time home buyer ? There's a few nice places in my neighborhood for $220-250, and if you are ambitious you can pick something up for $180 and fix it up to your tastes

As for the condos, the biggest thing to look out for with a conversion building is the mechanicals... I've seen too many old apartment buildings that are converted to condos, and yes you get the nice hardwood floors and stainless appliances, but if the boilers and radiant piping etc were not changed you are asking for major trouble!

[JAH]

Its hard to believe that house prices in Edmonton were predicted to grow 15% this year and we'll probably already pass that amount by the end of this month. I'm one of the lucky few who've benefited from this huge increase. I currently live in a Millwoods townhouse and bought a new duplex last April in the SW. My new place has been delayed forever and isn't done till this summer and in the meantime, my current millwoods townhouse just keeps going up. So I'm just paying for one mortgage but have "two" properties that are going up.

[Hali_user]

http://www.thegatewayonline.ca/students-tackle-housing-crisis.20070309.225.html


Liz Durden, News Staff Thursday, 8 March 2007

With the current housing shortage across the province, and campus vacancy rates projected at less than one per cent for next year, Students’ Union Vice-President (External) Dave Cournoyer took the opportunity to present recommendations to the provincial government’s Affordable Housing Task Force on 21 February.

The SU suggested that the Government of Alberta create more student housing, eliminate municipal property tax on residences and provide funding so that the University can deal with deferred maintenance issues. Cournoyer believes that these suggestions would reduce the overall strain on the housing market, since U of A students comprise approximately 3.5 per cent of the greater Edmonton area’s population.

“[The government] could alleviate pressureson the general market by creating more student housing and investing in student housing,” Cournoyer said. “Right now, in the University area, there is almost no vacancy, and the vacancies that do exist are generally high rent and out of the reach for most students.”

Third-year education student Jane Hawes found it difficult to find housing when she moved to Edmonton from Saskatoon in the fall. She’s currently going to school at the Campus Saint-Jean.

“It took a while—I came really, really early because I was told that the situation was going to be difficult, so I came in June or even before that to get housing for the fall. I actually had to rent a place from July on in order to [live in Edmonton over the summer],” Hawes said, adding that she pays around $600 a month for a single room.

Fifth-year student Shyam Ram, studying both physical education and education, echoed Hawes’ statement about the difficulties in finding housing.

“It’s almost impossible [to find housing]. I pay $1200 for a double,” Ram stated.

According to the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, Edmonton vacancy rates fell to 1.2 per cent in 2006. As stated by the SU submission, in the fall semester over 3800 undergraduate students—primarily from other parts of Alberta—came to the City and required housing.

“A big issue for a lot of students, especially for rural students, [is] finding a place to live in Edmonton,” Cournoyer pointed out. Not only is affordability an issue [when] moving from smaller communities to Edmonton to go to school; you have all your costs of living, tuition costs, the cost of books.”

Another issue that will affect the affordability of housing for students is the 10 per cent residence rent increase effective 1 May, 2007.

The Affordable Housing Task Force was created on 1 February, 2007 by the provincial government to address the housing crisis and to hear the concerns and suggestions of citizens across Alberta.

Len Webber, MLA for Calgary-Foothills and Chair of the task force, stated that the panel has listened to the concerns of student representatives across Alberta and acknowledges that it’s difficult for students to find places to live.

“Student housing is on the table and it is a concern. Students everywhere are having difficulty finding places to stay while they’re in school,” Webber acknowledged. “One thing unique about students is that a lot of them only require housing for eight months of the year. That makes it more difficult, because a lot of landlords nowadays want more than an eight month [commitment].”

Cournoyer also proposed to the task force that the provincial government reduce or eliminate the municipal property tax that’s currently imposed on University residences.

“It’s up to the tune of about $900 000 a year that the University pays in property taxes in residences,” Cournoyer noted. “We believe that alleviating that $900 000 a year will allow the University and residences to use [the money] to preserve affordability and to address a lot of the deferred maintenance issues.”

A one-time endowment from the provincial government to help the University with the maintenance and upkeep of residences was also proposed by the SU.

“The provincial government [should] provide funding so that the University can deal with a lot of the deferred maintenance; it’s very evident in a lot of the residences,” Cournoyer explained.

The task force visited nine locations throughout Alberta from 16 February to 2 March, and a final report of recommendations and solutions will be submitted to Ray Danyluk, Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing on 19 March.

[Kevin_foster]

I dont know, but a guy like me sees a Good opportunity here for someone that thinks they cant currently afford a house

1) Buy a house.
2) Rent the basement out to a student (or two)
3) ?????
4) Pay mortgage and make a small profit!

[Kevin_foster]

^ also, basement suites conversions aren't as common here as they are in Europe.

It's a win win situation for everyone.

[IntotheWest]

This was in the Herald Sat, Mar 10 - and I don't believe it was posted yet. I found it interesting - and hopeful that it actually does work out (especially better than what is already on the edge of Calgary)...is this a good idea? or just plain and simply more sprawl?

A 'rurban' future: Rocky View projects look at hybrid concept of rural development
Kathy McCormick, Calgary Herald
Published: Saturday, March 10, 2007
"Rurban" development is the wave of the future, say Calgary-area developers who are seeking to make such projects more environmentally sustainable.

Rural housing projects around urban Calgary are becoming coveted places to live, providing the desired lifestyle of the country with the proximity to city jobs, conveniences and amenities.

But such projects face problems like water consumption and use of agricultural land.


A sustainable "rurban" approach is being pursued by the Municipal District of Rocky

View, which borders Calgary on the east, north and west, says Steve Shawcross, a director with the IBI Group.

"The M.D. of Rocky View is looking for a hybrid development strategy," he says.

Shawcross has been working with Sapphire Development Corp., a Vancouver-based developer that has 230 hectares of land east of Chestermere that it is planning to develop.

"Meadow Lake Farm will be a much denser community making use of municipal services, but it will be done in a way that's much more sustainable," he says.

At the other end of the municipal district, a developer recently received unanimous approval from Rocky View council for a conceptual scheme for a community around the Springbank Airport.

Bordeaux Developments is planning a 700-hectare, master-planned community that is tentatively being called Harmony.

It will be a full village, with one-third of the area remaining as green space or water.

"It's a lifestyle statement," says Birol Fisekci, president and co-CEO of Bordeaux Developments.

"We will be clustering homes to allow vast green spaces with amenities and that will accomplish two things," says Fisekci.

"Firstly, we are not just bringing suburbia to Springbank, but are creating the perfect transition from the city, to farmland, to a village setting, and back to farmland. Secondly, the concern with low-density development creating sprawl is addressed."

Both Meadow Lake Farm and Harmony aim to include live-work-play concepts so that the communities do not have to rely on Calgary for employment.

"We're not creating a bedroom or satellite community of Calgary," says Fisekci about Harmony.

With water usage becoming a critical area of concern in new developments, each of the proposed projects is addressing water consumption in creative, sustainable ways.

A large part of the Meadow Lake Farm concept revolves around measures to protect that valuable resource, says Shawcross.

"The developer recognizes that water has become a scarcer commodity, so they're putting in place a system that conserves water," he says.

Each home will have cisterns and rain barrels and there will also be grey or waste water recycling.

State-of-the art stormwater management practices will be used to irrigate common areas such as playgrounds, parks and open spaces, says Shawcross.

Some of these features are already being used in several developments in and around Calgary.

Drake Landing in Okotoks, which is being developed by United Communities, uses sustainable water conservation methods as well as things like geothermal heating for homes.

Meadow Lake Farm will also include geothermal heating, says Shawcross. Such systems use the surrounding ground to heat homes in winter.

Meadow Lake Farm will obtain water from the proposed East Rocky View Regional Water Transmission Line.

The municipal district is currently attempting to obtain a license to draw surface water from the Bow River south of Langdon for the creation of the line.


Development plans include the creation of a recreational lake of about 10 hectares -- a feature designed to promote public health for residents, says Shawcross.

The Harmony project on the west side of the city, which already has a water license, will include a lake system totalling about 48 hectares.

It will not only enhance the look and esthetic appeal of the community, it will be used in a sustainable way, says Fisekci.

"The Harmony stormwater drainage system is designed to create the necessary drainage facilities that will improve the water quality and visual amenities, and provide recreational amenities, but may also be used to generate water resources for the needs of the community," he says.

Bordeaux has formed a partnership with WaterSmart, a non-profit organization that provides water conservation and technology.

"They will not only help us review technologies and support new development, but they will act as a watchdog for us," says Fisekci. "We'll be pushing the envelope on water conservation."

Bordeaux is also working with the University of Calgary, the Canadian Green Council, and TRLabs, a government-funded organization that encourages the use of new technologies.

"We have a lot of independent organizations around us," says Fisekci. "Everyone is willing to talk and share ideas with us."

Bordeaux is also looking at things like smart outdoor lighting, preventing light pollution of the night sky in a rural setting.

Other ideas include car pooling, even to the point of having communal cars for the use of residents.

A critical part of plans for both communities is the creation of specific areas to keep residents home, rather than creating a bedroom community for residents who work in Calgary.

One of the concerns faced by such developments is that they allow residents who work in Calgary to enjoy urban services without paying city taxes.

Due to Harmony's location surrounding the Springbank airport, a large part of the development will have a business component to it, says Fisekci.

"With the aerospace industry here, it's a chance to diversify the economy and provide economic benefits for the community and the municipality," he says. "Our business campus will complement that."

At Meadow Lake Farm, a large component of the design -- and a focal point of the whole area -- will be a central agricultural complex.

About six hectares will include community garden plots, a tree farm, a wind farm, greenhouses, and sustainable features such as recycling and composting areas.

"It will be a footnote to the agricultural past of the area and allow

residents to get involved in their

own food production," says Shawcross. "It also provides an opportunity for residents to come together

to share."

The complex will be anchored by a barn-like building housing a community centre, which can be used for workshops and a marketing centre.


The hubs of both Harmony and Meadow Lake Farm will involve the creation of village cores to provide ambience and allow residents to stay home for entertainment and relaxation.

The aim is to create a community reminiscent of villages in Europe, which are vibrant places to live and offer housing to suit all ages -- an "aging-in-place" environment.

Cluster housing will be implemented -- groups of houses set together, allowing for ample green space rather than scattered one-off homes typical of acreages.

Harmony has a golf course in its plan which will act as a buffer between neighbourhoods and ranchlands.

All types of housing -- from multi-family to a select few acreage-size lots -- will further define and transition areas.

By completion, Harmony should have about 3,500 housing units. Meadow Lake Farm will have 2,000 to 3,000 units.

The concept plan for Meadow Lake Farm is currently in circulation at the Municipal District of Rocky View.

"If all goes well, we're hoping to start development of deep services for the community by 2008," says Shawcross.

Bordeaux is currently creating land use and subdivision plans to submit to the municipal district.

If all goes well, Harmony could undergo deep servicing by the end of next year, says Fisekci.

In Short:

PROJECTS: Meadow Lake Farm, and Harmony (the working title), both in the Municipal District of Rocky View. They are separately being developed as master-planned communities that combine sustainable features and a holistic neighbourhood that is self-sufficient.

DEVELOPERS: Sapphire Development Corp. (Meadow Lake Farm) of Vancouver, and Bordeaux Developments of Calgary for Harmony.

LOCATION: Meadow Lake Farm is a 230 hectare property about 2.5 kilometres southeast of Chestermere near Highway 791. Harmony is north and west of the Springbank Airport, north of the Trans-Canada Highway and west of Range Road 33 (the Callaway Park exit). It's a 700-hectare parcel.

[liferanger]

JAH- I hear what you are saying....I got the bug last year and I'm currently in with 4 houses....expect to make about about $500-600,000 on the flip of these properties this summer.....

Next up, the ICON penthouse.....

[onishenko]

so if anyone needs a condo... just let me know. I think we're selling in late-June as I am headed out east.

Great news Edmonton. Glad to be on the inside this time.

BTW, I called it in November. (I said more like 20-25%.... not 15!)

[freeweed]

So when do we start hearing stories about people fleeing Edmonton and moving to Calgary, where real estate prices are more "reasonable"? :jester:

[murman]

I dont know, but a guy like me sees a Good opportunity here for someone that thinks they cant currently afford a house

1) Buy a house.
2) Rent the basement out to a student (or two)
3) ?????
4) Pay mortgage and make a small profit!

However, that eventually ends up being a false economic premise, because the market eventually ends up pricing the rental revenue into affordability calculations to an indifference point where you're paying $X more for the revenue stream; "I can afford to pay more because my mortgage will be cheaper."

Put two houses side by side, one in which you can rent out the basement, and the other you can't. I can guarantee that the house with the rental suite will sell for more.

[Coldrsx]

So when do we start hearing stories about people fleeing Edmonton and moving to Calgary, where real estate prices are more "reasonable"? :jester:

hahahha....now that would be rich, pardon the pun

[JAH]

Theres got to be a tipping point somewhere soon with all the price increase. How much longer can the market sustain these price increases? I'm condering one more investment/flip but scared of slowdown.

[Coldrsx]

might be a slowdown, but not a bubble unless oil tanks bad...

net migration is still huge, supply is low, demand is high...

[JAH]

If only I could have saw all this coming after I graduated.. I would have invested in lots of property instead of wasting all that money on partying and beer.. :( ah well

[feepa]

If only I could have saw all this coming after I graduated.. I would have invested in lots of property instead of wasting all that money on partying and beer.. :( ah well
I saw it all coming. I wish I had invested more money, or more money to invest with.

I also saw the huge increase in price of gold coming too. If only my dad had listened to me back when gold was $250 or less when I was like 14

[Coldrsx]

man i wish i invested in google back in 1980 before it started up

[MichaelS]

I saw it all coming. I wish I had invested more money, or more money to invest with.

I also saw the huge increase in price of gold coming too. If only my dad had listened to me back when gold was $250 or less when I was like 14

www.jsmineset.com

According to this guy, gold is going to $1650.

[Bassic Lab]

I thought we could use a seperate place to discuss the figures and the swath of articles that will likely come about from them.

I'll start with the CMA, then its constituent parts in order of size, then Foothills MD and the communities contained with in, then other centres that I feel should be included.


Calgary CMA

Calgary CMA

2006: 1,079,310
2001: 951,494
Growth: 13.4%

Calgary city

2006: 988,193
2001: 879,003
Growth: 12.4%

Rockyview MD

2006: 34,171
2001: 29,925
Growth: 14.2%

Airdre

2006: 28,927
2001: 20,407
Growth: 41.8%

Cochrane

2006: 13,760
2001: 12,041
Growth: 14.3%

Chestermere

2006: 9,564
2001: 3,856
Growth: 148.0%

Crossfield

2006: 2,648
2001: 2,399
Growth: 10.4%

Irricana

2006: 1,243
2001: 1,043
Growth: 19.2%

Beiseker

2006: 804
2001: 838
Growth: -4.1%



Area south of Calgary CMA:

Foothills MD

2006: 19,736
2001: 16,602
Growth: 18.9%

Okotoks

2006: 17,145
2001: 11,689
Growth: 46.7%

High River
2006: 10,716
2001: 9,383
Growth: 14.2%

Turner Valley

2006: 1,908
2001: 1,608
Growth: 18.7%

Black Diamond

2006: 1,900
2001: 1,866
Growth: 1.8%

Longview

2006: 300
2001: 300
Growth: 0.0%


Areas outside of above mentioned

Strathmore

2006: 10,225
2001: 7,621
Growth: 34.2%



I'm missing the T'suu T'ina Reserve as information has not yet been released. Also one area in Foothills that is along Highway 22 south of Longview and what might be a small reserve along Highway 541 west of the same area, as I couldn't figure out what places those were.


Federal Electoral Districts (alphabetical listing)

Calgary Centre

2006: 124,197
2001: 117,439
Growth: 5.8%

Calgary Centre-North

2006: 114,615
2001: 117,252
Growth: -2.2%

Calgary East

2006: 110,479
2001: 115,565
Growth: -4.4%

Calgary Northeast

2006: 129,015
2001: 109,339
Growth: 18.0%

Calgary Nosehill

2006: 130,942
2001: 100,026
Growth: 30.9%

Calgary Southeast

2006: 125,738
2001: 107,432
Growth: 17.0%

Calgary Southwest

2006: 120,750
2001: 107,920
Growth: 11.9%

Calgary West

2006: 132,162
2001: 103,893
Growth: 27.2%

Crowfoot

2006: 114,825
2001: 104,079 (adjusted due to boundary change)
Growth: 10.3%

Macleod

2006: 107,638 (missing data from one or more Reserves)
2001: 97,501
Growth: 10.4%

Wild Rose

2006: 115,872
2001: 101,670 (adjusted due to boundary change)
Growth: 14.0%

[feepa]

I've decided, after much disgust with a new "development" in the core of Edmonton, that a Wall of Shame needs to go up.

Please post pictures of new "developments" (if you can even call them that...) of CRAP that does not belong in your city's core or anywhere. Explain if need be, but my example clearly doesnt.

I'll start...

Edmonton - Oliver - 112th ave, 104th St.

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/6796/panacheql1.jpg

[CanadianCentaur]

UGH! I can't believe that this nasty looking POS's going to be up in a location more appropriate for a tower. Even TNP's products aren't as horrible as this!

[Calgarian]

Oscar
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8503/oscar2ly6.jpg

[Stephen Ave]

Holy Cow! Chestermere's growth is crazy. I had no idea it had grown that much.

The south areas have quite a lot of population, over 50k. Once Stascan adds those areas Calgary's CMA is going to take a major jump.

[frinkprof]

I've decided, after much disgust with a new "development" in the core of Edmonton, that a Wall of Shame needs to go up.

Please post pictures of new "developments" (if you can even call them that...) of CRAP that does not belong in your city's core or anywhere. Explain if need be, but my example clearly doesnt.

I'll start...

Edmonton - Oliver - 112th ave, 104th St.

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/6796/panacheql1.jpg
Is it 1970?

[Bassic Lab]

Holy Cow! Chestermere's growth is crazy. I had no idea it had grown that much.

The south areas have quite a lot of population, over 50k. Once Stascan adds those areas Calgary's CMA is going to take a major jump.

Yeah, Chestermere's growth was huge and it is now pretty safe to assume that the town has more than 10,000 people.

Rockyview and the communities within it (all of the Calgary CMA except Calgary its self) now have over 90,000 people, a jump of about 20,000.

If current growth rates continue there will have to be alot of redistricting of Alberta federal and provincial ridings. I might be the only one here that gets a kick out of that sort of thing but it is pretty interesting. I really wish that the census also had a category for provincial ridings to take some of the guess work out but some of them have to be pretty huge right about now. The average population of a provincial riding should be about 39,643 right now, Calgary's 23 ridings have an average of about 42,965. Calgary really ought to have 25 seats right now. Federally Calgary should have nine seats and Alberta should have 29 or 30. 2011 should be pretty fun for this stuff, current growth rates could make the redistricting very challenging. There were already problems in 2001 over the growing signifigance of Calgary and Edmonton in the provincial Legislature, this won't help matters.

[ScottFromCalgary]

^I saw on the news that Alberta should be entitled to another 5 seats or so on to of our current 28 (approx.). Ontario, on the other hand, should actually see their count go up from 103ish to 120. Puts things in perspective.

[Bassic Lab]

^I saw on the news that Alberta should be entitled to another 5 seats or so on to of our current 28 (approx.). Ontario, on the other hand, should actually see their count go up from 103ish to 120. Puts things in perspective.

It would really depend on the method used. I came to my number of one or two additional seats (so 29 or 30 total) by using the formula that is actually used for adding seats. This involves the total population of Canada divided by 279 to reach a base line then adding seats to those provinces above that threshold to put them there. There is talk of changing the formula so that the baseline is Quebec's population divided by 75. This would grant additional seats to those provinces above Quebec's threshold, BC, Alberta, and Ontario. Under that system we would end up with about five aditional seats for Alberta. If we took the current size of the house (308 seats) and simply allocated them according to population then Alberta would be entitled to roughly 31 seats.

So the formula used matters a great deal. If there was actually redistricting after this census the current law would follow my initial numbers though.

[Boris2k7]

The south areas have quite a lot of population, over 50k. Once Stascan adds those areas Calgary's CMA is going to take a major jump.

It's actually over 65K

[Bassic Lab]

It's actually over 65K


I get only about 53,000. Although I am missing one municipality I don't think it throws the numbers off by ten thousand. So umm, what am I missing?

[Boris2k7]

EDIT: NM...

Yeah I messed up in my calculation. Damnit

What I think happened was I accidentally put a 9 before a 1...

[JBinCalgary]

what is your worst nightmare come true when it comes to calgary construction?
mine is keynote.
http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/7359/keynote99mj.jpg :yuck:

[skrish]

A little jem by the name of OSCAR :yuck:. Where else can you get a sailboat on a building.

[Boris2k7]

Oscar, indeed. Keynote is absolutely tame in comparison.

[JBinCalgary]

oh yeah, that peach. i have had more architecturally pleasing shits
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8503/oscar2ly6.jpg

[Xelebes]

Us Edmontonions will take that. :(

Edit: re: keynote, kthx

[JBinCalgary]

you can have it

[jeffwhit]

^^ Was there a bolshevik revolution?

[jeffwhit]

Us Edmontonions will take that. :(

Edit: re: keynote, kthx

We have that in writing now.

[bob1954]

On Keynote, srap the office thing, make the residential towers a little taller! 2 buildings of similar design is enough!

[Riise]

Holy Cow! Chestermere's growth is crazy. I had no idea it had grown that much.

No lie, 148.0% is pretty crazy! If they had broken the 10,000 mark they would have would have been named fastest growing community in Canada by far!!!

Cities: Top 10 population growth gainers and losers
Canadian Press

OTTAWA — Top 10 Canadian communities with a population of 10,000 or more with the highest growth rates from 2001-2006, according to census data released Tuesday by Statistics Canada:
1. Milton, Ont., 71.4 per cent
2. Okotoks, Alta., 46.7 per cent
3. Airdrie, Alta., 41.8 per cent
4. Brampton, Ont., 33.3 per cent
5. Saint-Lazare, Que., 32 per cent
6. Vaughan, Ont., 31.2 per cent
7. Vaudreuil-Dorion, Que., 29.5 per cent
8. Blainville, Que., 29 per cent
9. Grande Prairie, Alta., 27.3 per cent
10. Whitby, Ont., 27.2 per cent