[SHOFEAR]

This would be awesome!!!!

--------------------------------
NCAA opens door for Canadian teams

By TRAVIS REED

ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) - The NCAA opened the door for Canadian teams to seek membership as part of a 10-year pilot program under changes approved Monday at the organization's annual convention.

NCAA president Myles Brand said it would likely affect only a small handful of schools - no more than three. "This is not a massive change, but conceptually it's an interesting change," he said.

The NCAA's three divisions would still need to pass rules specifically allowing Canadian schools before their membership could be solicited.

Also Monday, the convention determined NCAA teams will face a post-season ban for failing to meet academic progress standards in four consecutive years.

Teams that fail to meet the standards in three consecutive years will be warned publicly. In addition to the post-season ban, four straight years also will result in scholarship cuts and restrictions on practice time.

"Four years is a long time for an institution to be told, 'You're not doing well in academic performance,' so we think in that fourth year there ought to be some penalties of consequence," said Walt Harrison, chairman of the committee on academic performance.

The standards will be enforced on a sport-by-sport basis, with only the teams that fail to meet the requirements drawing sanctions. The rules will take effect in spring 2008.

The convention concluded without rule changes on two of the highest-profile measures the NCAA faced.

Division I was considering proposals to restrict or ban text messages between coaches and recruits. The committee defeated a plan with time and date limits, but returned to members for discussion another that would ban electronic communications altogether except e-mail and fax.

The use of text messages was allowed in 2004, under the assumption that they would be less intrusive than phone calls. However, top recruits say they're getting dozens of texts per day, which can be time-consuming and costly to field.

"I'm not sure if we passed a rule at this point we would get it right," Brand said, adding that he thinks the next wave of "video messaging" is already taking hold. "I personally think that we can be very intrusive in the lives of these young people, particularly in class time. Something needs to be done."

Division III deferred a decision to limit the participation of male players in female practices. Some in women's athletics have said it undermines Title IX, while proponents have argued it has made female athletes better.

Many representatives of the Division III conferences and nearly 500 schools that voted on the proposal said they wanted further study. Though their actions would affect only Division III, they could foretell similar changes in the NCAA's upper tiers. No change will be made until at least next year, when members are gathered for the 2008 convention in Nashville.

The NCAA also released results of a survey of more than 20,000 student-athletes in which 15 to 20 per cent said athletics "prevented them from majoring in what they really want." However, fewer than 5 per cent said they regretted the decision, and 90 per cent said they were pleased with their declared major.

[West_aust]

I wonder which universities would apply and in which sport

[flar]

I seem to recall from back when I was at Univeristy of Western Ontario that the cheerleading squad or something was competing with NCAA teams.

[edzed]

There is no way any Canadian School can match to the ones in the US. The only sports I can see happen are non-team sports.

[SHOFEAR]

There is no way any Canadian School can match to the ones in the US. The only sports I can see happen are non-team sports.


U of A's volloyball team usually wins an invitational against the best NCAA and CIS teams,

Hockey would have to directly compete against the CHL for players, and given the amount of canadian players who have decided to go the NCAA route this is a very good possibility....good bye CHL!

I think there is a minimum of sports you must enter, So the rest would be made up of track, swimming..etc.

Something would have to be done with Football and Basketball....

[Jay in Cowtown]

A school in B.C. was interested in joining NCAA Hockey... read it on espn.com a few months ago.

[CorporateWhore]

We can't compete money wise, although that's not necessarily a bad thing. I'd rather Canadian universities kept focusing their resources on things that matter in the long-term, namely academia. As much as I like sports, I dont want money for traditional subjects to be supplanted in order to try to better the life of a bunch of jokohomo frat kids.

[SHOFEAR]

We can't compete money wise, although that's not necessarily a bad thing. I'd rather Canadian universities kept focusing their resources on things that matter in the long-term, namely academia. As much as I like sports, I dont want money for traditional subjects to be supplanted in order to try to better the life of a bunch of jokohomo frat kids.


This might be the move that really makes university sport more popular in Canada. Yes it will cost more, but you also looking a much larger amount of potential revenue from ticket sales and corporate funding. There is no reason why it would have to take money from traditional funding.

I think the "community" you see when you get 10 000 20-30 something year olds packing hockey arena's and other sports venues is something that is missing when it comes to university education.

[drew]

U of A's volloyball team usually wins an invitational against the best NCAA and CIS teams,


I'll second this. University level volleyball in Canada is pretty much on par or better than the NCAA. The UofM has a historically strong volleyball program, and they usually beat the NCAA teams they play.

[SHOFEAR]

I'll second this. University level volleyball in Canada is pretty much on par or better than the NCAA. The UofM has a historically strong volleyball program, and they usually beat the NCAA teams they play.


http://www.cisport.ca/e/championships/m_volleyball/2006/past.cfm
I decided to look this up. It's pretty amazing really, the west has really owned mens volleyball. I wonder if it was marketed right could you sell it as a mainstream sport in western Canada. The same way we can fill hockey arenas for curling could be possible for Volleyball.... It would certainly help take a huge dent out of the cost to compete at a NCAA level.

[CCF]

Yikes, chalk me up as someone who doesn't want to join the NCAA.

I've competed at the CIS level, and I don't think there are any Canadian schools that would be able to compete in my sport against AMerican schools.

How are schools like Lethbridge, Trent, UPEI etc supposed to compete at that level? It's obvious they can't. Continue to work on what we have.

[drizzo_613]

i don't know about this year...but in previous years Carleton had one of the best, if not the best, basketball teams in the country.i doubt they'd do too bad

[trueviking]

doesnt simon fraser compete in an american athletics conference?

the SFU clansmen, i believe they are called...yeesh.


edit...

a little research shows that they havent since 2002....they used to play 4 down football against University of Illinois Fighting Illini, UC Berkeley Golden Bears, Oregon Ducks,

from wikipedia:

Simon Fraser (previously known as the SFU Clansmen) did not compete in CIAU/CIS until 2002, after a failed attempt to join the U.S. NCAA.

From it's inception in 1965, Simon Fraser competed in the NAIA to allow "full ride" scholarships. Canadian Schools did not allow any form of scholarships until the late-1980's. SFU was forced to leave the NAIA in many sports due to schools in the Northwest US shifting to the NCAA. The NCAA limits membership to schools based in the U.S.. Some Simon Fraser teams still compete in the U.S., and their men's wrestling program competes in both organizations.

[SHOFEAR]

doesnt simon fraser compete in an american athletics conference?

the SFU clansmen, i beieve they are called...yeesh.

They used to I believe...

How are schools like Lethbridge, Trent, UPEI etc supposed to compete at that level? It's obvious they can't. Continue to work on what we have.

Why should cities like Edmonton, Winnipeg, Calgary etc have to hold back so we can compete with Lethbridge? Smaller universities can join smaller college level leagues so the rest of us can compete with the UCLA's and Michigans.

[CCF]

Just SFU Clan.


Some of their sports (i.e. Cross Country) do participate in an American division, albeit a lower one. UBC's Cross team also participates in an American league. Only UVIC participates in Canwest, and they rarely attend any cross country events.

However, SFU's football team plays in Canwest. They are pretty bad.

[trueviking]

even clan is a suspect name...its like using the swastica as a logo....sure it is an ancient symbol used for a thousand years, but the connotation was kind of ruined forever by a single group.

time to come up with a new name i'd say.

[CCF]

They used to I believe...



Why should cities like Edmonton, Winnipeg, Calgary etc have to hold back so we can compete with Lethbridge? Smaller universities can join smaller college level leagues so the rest of us can compete with the UCLA's and Michigans.

Because, the league is more balanced than you think.

Do you know which basketball team has consistently been at the top in Canwest?

I'll assume you don't. The answer is the University of Brandon.

Big schools does not equal athletic success.

I can tell you one thing. Both the Bisons and the Wesmen can't compete with the schools they are playing right now. You want them to play in the NCAA?

Hah.

[SHOFEAR]

So should Canada west let in Nait and Macewan so they can compete and hold hands with the big boys?

[CCF]

So should Canada west let in Nait and Macewan so they can compete and hold hands with the big boys?


Obviously not, because those are colleges. Colleges have their own seperate league to play in.

These big schools haven't proven anything, and they certainly aren't ripping up the CIS. Unless these teams are going 20-0 in CIS, then they don't derseve to play in the NCAA. They would be destroyed so fast, it wouldn't even be funny.

[SHOFEAR]

I held season tickets for Golden bears hockey the past two years. The reason why I didn't by them this year... The only games worth watching were U of S, U of C and U of W. The other teams didn't belong in the league, they couldn't compete and you couldn't sell tickets to those games. It's the same year after year.

It's the same problem with Basketball and Volleyball. The drive home guy on the TEAM 1260 was the former PR (or something like that) person for the U of A. He always talks about how your always getting big crowds for the same handfull of universities..the rest were to small to ever be competitive (brandon is one of the few exceptions, but didn't they go through some accusations about questionable elligibility and recruiting a few years ago).

As it is now, the CIS does not work. There is a huge level of disparity and the creation of a super league would be tough to implement because the cost of western teams traveling out east (and vice versa) is huge. Unfortunatly, it might not be succesful at the gate becasue this super league will still have the unfortunate stigma that follows CIS with people having no idea how good some of the talent actually is.

[Hardhatdan]

So should Canada west let in Nait and Macewan so they can compete and hold hands with the big boys?
The difference between the ACAC level sports and the CIS level sports is huge...colleges would really have no chance.
As for Volleyball, sure U of A, Trinity Western, U of S, U of M, etc could play in the NCAA. In reality, I would say U of A would have an excellent shot of maybe even winning it. However, the travel expenses, time away from school and the extra demand on the players in the end may not be worth it.
The whole lets see 30 000 people out for a football game or hockey game is great, but the reality of it is, that Universities are supposed to be and should be academics first, athletics second. If this meant taking money from other faculties to fund an attempt into the NCAA, I would say no.

[SHOFEAR]

The difference between the ACAC level sports and the CIS level sports is huge...colleges would really have no chance.
As for Volleyball, sure U of A, Trinity Western, U of S, U of M, etc could play in the NCAA. In reality, I would say U of A would have an excellent shot of maybe even winning it. However, the travel expenses, time away from school and the extra demand on the players in the end may not be worth it.
The whole lets see 30 000 people out for a football game or hockey game is great, but the reality of it is, that Universities are supposed to be and should be academics first, athletics second. If this meant taking money from other faculties to fund an attempt into the NCAA, I would say no.

I doubt it wouldn't be able to fund itself. I know for a fact the U of A has offered huge sums of money year after year to lure top ranked NCAA teams to play the Bears hockey at home. They are already incredibley stingy with the coin so I doubt that would have made these offers if the didn't think there was a very good chance they would make money on it.

And really, whats the difference between Lethbridge and Macewan? I'd be willing to bet that if there was the population to support more larger universities in the west the lethbridges would be playing in the ACAC.

[Hardhatdan]

What would be the point of flooding the CIS with more low ranked teams? You are basically taking a group of athletes who are at the top of one and throwing them into the bottom of the other. The players that will eventually make it to the CIS, at least for volleyball, are usually down in the ACAC by the direction of a CIS team already. It does them better to play, than to sit on the bench and never use their skills. I don't know, for Hockey I could maybe see it...its just all that travelling, not just for tournaments now, but now every week is going to take a toll on course work...which for many athletes already is taking the second priority, but in the eyes of the school has to maintain a certain level.
As a pure athlete, I would love the ability to compete against a larger group of high level teams, as an athlete that at the same time is actually trying to get a degree, I am not so sure.

[SSLL]

It'd be hard to compete against US schools in the basketball and football, in terms of funding.

[christopherj]

Hockey would have to directly compete against the CHL for players, and given the amount of canadian players who have decided to go the NCAA route this is a very good possibility....good bye CHL!

That will never happen.

Canadian Universities, as it is, thrive off of picking up players who have graduated from the CHL. I don't Canadian players choosing to go to the U of A instead of the WHL/OHL/QMJHL just to play NCAA.

Trust me, the CHL will be around for a long time. :)

[SHOFEAR]

That will never happen.

Canadian Universities, as it is, thrive off of picking up players who have graduated from the CHL. I don't Canadian players choosing to go to the U of A instead of the WHL/OHL/QMJHL just to play NCAA.

Trust me, the CHL will be around for a long time. :)

But, look at how many players are deciding to go and play the NCAA route. Anybody who has watch the WJHC over the years will recognize that there are more and more players who prefer to go the NCAA route. Providing a Canadian option might be very tempting...

[SHOFEAR]

That will never happen.

Canadian Universities, as it is, thrive off of picking up players who have graduated from the CHL. I don't Canadian players choosing to go to the U of A instead of the WHL/OHL/QMJHL just to play NCAA.

Trust me, the CHL will be around for a long time. :)

But, look at how many players are deciding to go and play the NCAA route. Anybody who has watch the WJHC over the years will recognize that there are more and more players who prefer to go the NCAA route. Providing a Canadian option might be very tempting...

[lubicon]

Hockey in particular would be an interesting issue. Many of the University teams have ex-CHL players playing for them. If I recall pretty much all the U of A players were ex-CHL players so there is no question the level of hockey is very high. In case people don't know, the CHL (at least the WHL portion of it) has a program in place whereby the team/league will pay 1 year of tuition/costs for every year you play junior hockey. Thus a player who plays 3 or 4 years of junior pretty much get's a full scholarship at a Canadian University of their choice providing they have the marks to get in. It's a pretty sweet program, and allows the players to continue playing competitive hockey and the universities get themselves a great hockey program to boot.

The question I have is how the NCAA would view the inclusion of CHL players on a university roster. NCAA rules prohibit a player from playing university sport if they have played professionally, and they consider Major Junior Hockey (ie the CHL) to be professional as the players receive compenstaion if some form (boarding, food allowance etc). The Tier II Junior teams are not considered the same way by the NCAA. That is why you see some players moving from Tier II Junior to the NCAA, but never from the CHL to the NCAA - they are not allowed.

Canadian University teams may be considered inelegible to play in the NCAA if they have CHL players on their rosters.

[christopherj]

But, look at how many players are deciding to go and play the NCAA route. Anybody who has watch the WJHC over the years will recognize that there are more and more players who prefer to go the NCAA route. Providing a Canadian option might be very tempting...

I disagree - Team Canada players playing in the WJHC over the past few years have been:

2007: 3 (Daniel Bertram, Andrew Cogliano, Jonathan Toews)
2006: 4 (Sasha Pokulok, Daniel Bertram, Andrew Cogliano, Jonathan Toews)
2005: 0
2004: 1 (Jeff Tambellini)
2003: 1 (David LeNeveu)
2002: 1 (Mike Cammalleri)

What this suggests to me is that yes, there is always one or two, but all that has really happened is that a few good hockey players (Daniel Bertram, Andrew Cogliano, Jonathan Towes) have decided to play NCAA at the same time - something that does not occur often. I'd bet next year we will return to the normal patterns as COgliano, Toews, etc will be to old to play.

Also, a quick glance at NHL 1st rounders suggest that the NCAA is still far behind in recruiting Canadian kids:

2006: 11 Canadians drafted from the CHL, 1 from the US (Toews)
2005: 14 Canadians drafted from the CHL, 1 from the US (Polulok)
2004: 12 Canadians drafted from the CHL, 0 from the US
2003: 16 Canadians drafted from the CHL, 1 from the US (Tambellini)
2002: 10 Canadians drafted from the CHL, 0 from the US

So over the past 5 draft years there have been three Canadians picked in the first round who went to play NCAA hockey. At the same time, one could also argue that the CHL is showing to be a better training ground for prospects - over the same period of time, 7 Americans have gone to play in the CHL and were drafted in the first round (a number that is slowly increasing) - Dustin Brown (2003), Rob Schremp (2004), Bobby Ryan (2005), Matt Lashoff (2005), Peter Mueller (2006), Bob Sanguinetti (2006) and Nick Foligno (2006).

One a final note - I'm not sure why a Canadian player would choose the US over Canada anways. All CHL leagues offer scholarships to players who play in the league based on the number of years. In addition, it is common for CHL teams to guarantee education money for kids who are concerned that they will lose out on a free University education from the NCAA by playing hockey.

[SHOFEAR]

I'm not saying that NCAA would be everybody choice for hockey, but there are those who prefer it and having a couple Canadian universities offering that option could very well work. I'm pretty confident that a university that spends a lot of time recruiting (U of A being the best example) could lure players, providing a suitable facility is in place. As history filled Clare Drake is, it's still a dump.

Lubicon, you are right. The NCAA will not allow players who have played at a major junior (CHL) level play in the NCAA.

[Rye $ingh]

I heard in a radio a while back that UBC was trying to get into the NCAA for basketball, but i think Canadian schools are going to have to jump alot of hurdles to get in.