Metro Phoenix Transit/Transportation Developments [Archive] - Page 18

HooverDam

Jan 28, 2009, 3:38 AM

http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2009/01/27/20090127abrk-inmatelightrail.html

Sheriff's Office to transport inmates via light rail
222 comments by Eddi Trevizo - Jan. 27, 2009 02:52 PM
The Arizona Republic
Maricopa County sheriff's deputies may soon begin taking some inmates to Fourth Avenue Jail on Metro light rail in a bid to cut costs.

Sheriff Joe Arpaio's decision caught Metro Light Rail officials by surprise, but a spokeswoman said transporting inmates on the train does not violate light rail ordinances.

"This is not the intended use of the system and Metro objects on the basis of the potential concern it may create for our passengers," Metro Light Rail spokeswoman, Hillary Foose, said. According to Foose, Metro Light Rail wants to ensure the safety of the 20,000 to 30,000 passengers that ride the light rail each day.

"Anything that concerns our passengers, or has the potential to concern our passengers, concerns Metro Light Rail," Foose said.

Arpaio said he planned to transport inmates using the light rail from 44th and Washington streets to the Fourth Avenue Jail in order to eliminate parking fees. MCSO estimates that the new system can save about $72,000 in transport fees.

The stop Arpaio designated is the one commuters use to access Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport.

The Sheriff's Office announced the new arrangement Tuesday afternoon, but did not specify what kind of inmates will be transported or how many may be moved at a time.

The agency will release more details at a 5 p.m. news conference,

"There is nothing to be concerned or worried about as my deputies will be armed," Sheriff Joe Arpaio said in a press release.

The inmates are not required to be separated from other commuters but Metro Light Rail is concerned that passengers may still object to the new arrangement and fear for their safety, according to Foose.

"We are expecting them to be responsible for their inmate; the security of the inmate and those around the inmate is the responsibility of the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office," said Foose.

As a public transportation system, Metro Light Rail, ordinances allow anyone who pays proper fare and abides by the rules to ride the light rail. The ordinances also allow passengers to carry concealed weapons with valid licenses.

Sheriff Joe would you just keel over already?

EDIT: VV Well they'd all be shackled to each other, so that wouldn't happen. But either way, its an idiotic idea. Sheriff Joe always claims he's saving the taxpayers money, but its quite the opposite. For instance, "Smile, Youre Under Arrest" a reality show the MCSO was involved in (and I worked on) was a gigantic money sink for the county and just a publicity stunt.

SunDevil

Jan 28, 2009, 4:39 AM

It might save $72,000 in transport fees but will certainly decrease ridership (lost revenue) and what's to stop a particularly strong inmate from making a last second dash before the doors close, thereby cutting off the deputies and then jumping into a friends awaiting car.

What a fucking dumbass. I can't believe people vote for this gloryhound.

nickkoto

Jan 28, 2009, 5:26 AM

Save on parking fees? I call BS. MCSO has garages in the jails and designated parking places all around the court complex and they certainly aren't feeding any meters when they pull up with a busload of inmates.

So if the train is already somewhat full of people, are they still going to bring inmates on board? Are the deputies just going to come on board and tell all of the paying customers at one end of the train that they're commandeering half the car and they all need to give up their seats? Or are they just going to bring them on board and mingle with the crowd, so you'll be seated and look up to see some tweaker on a felony aggravated assault charge standing right next to you in a prison jumpsuit? Or if maybe they want to fill a whole train full of inmates, are they going to require the passengers already on board to exit?

And by the way, any tourists who board from the airport shuttle will get a nice first impression of the place. What a douche.

combusean

Jan 28, 2009, 5:43 AM

It's to save *airport* parking fees. I posted the update to the article in Transportation:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=164217

Sonoran_Dweller

Jan 28, 2009, 5:57 AM

Being an elected official for 16 years has done something to this crazy guys head. I think it was just a one-time media event trying to persuade The City to give pack his free parking at the airport. I don't think Phoenix would want him to put his prisoners on the train. And how do we know that the prisoner who was with him wasn't just an actress (it looked like a female on the evening news). We all know Arpaio loves the media and will do anything for just a little attention. I really don't think that he would bring a convicted felon onto a public transportation vehicle with everyday citizens.

...but then again it is Arpaio.

JI5

Jan 28, 2009, 6:59 AM

I saw the inmate and media while taking the train home from work tonight.
It was very weird to see, and not what you want to be dealing with at the end of the work day. It's almost enough to make me get back in my car.

exit2lef

Jan 28, 2009, 8:53 AM

An interesting view of our new light rail from Seattle. There's some condescension and misinformation in a few of the comments, but the blog post itself seems accurate and fair for the most part. I'd take issue with the author's claim of minimal TOD in Phoenix, though. Although some high-profile TOD projects are on hold or canceled due to the economy, many smaller ones have gone forward near 44th & Washington, along Apache, along Central, etc. Overall, a worthwhile read:

http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/01/27/phoenix-light-rail/

glynnjamin

Jan 28, 2009, 7:49 PM

That option was not on the table. They have a no-advertising policy to which they made an exception for the NBA All Star game.

I'm pretty sure that if the World Series or NBA Finals were to come back to AZ, at least ONE train would be "wrapped" in red or purple/orange. It is not "advertising" as much as it is "showing support" and I feel like, as a city, we should show that support. I don't even like stupid football or the Cards but knowing how cheap Bidwill is, I'm sure he didn't want to pay for it. You can bet that Colangelo would have wrapped everything he could get his hands on if he still owned the Suns/Dbacks and they were in the finals.

Besides that, think how cool the LRT would look as a Cards train!

PhxPavilion

Jan 29, 2009, 10:39 AM

Sheriff Joe always claims he's saving the taxpayers money, but its quite the opposite. For instance, "Smile, Youre Under Arrest" a reality show the MCSO was involved in (and I worked on) was a gigantic money sink for the county and just a publicity stunt.

Indeed. He blew millions of dollars on personal security and an "investigation" into what he thought was a plot by a few individuals to kill him. :no:

Vicelord John

Jan 29, 2009, 11:55 AM

Wow i never saw so maNy people who knew how to be good sherrifs in one room... /sarcasm

glynnjamin

Jan 29, 2009, 2:25 PM

^Hey, John's back.

So, I'm not really sure but it seems like we haven't really had a train-car/ped accident in a couple weeks. I thought with ASU going back, there would be some instances, but apparently the folks down at University & Mill are smarter than I thought and can manage to look both ways. How is the speed of the train coming along? Any better? I have not ridden in weeks but I saw it stopped at Fillmore, McKinley, and Van Buren yesterday because of lights.

PHX31

Jan 29, 2009, 3:22 PM

I don't know where someone thinks it takes 2 hours to go end of line to end of line. That seems literally impossible and I've never had it take anywhere near that long... Plus, some stupid bizzo on the azcentral comments sections once said it was going to take the train 7 minutes (10 minutes sometimes) at each station. She literally thought the train would sit at each station for 7+ minutes and wait. I'm not sure I've heard someone with any less common sense than her. The trains are taking much shorter than even I thought at each station. In my experience, the train is pretty quick... although everything is slower on the weekend's during the day with all of the joy riders still.

KEVINphx

Jan 29, 2009, 3:37 PM

Wow i never saw so maNy people who knew how to be good sherrifs in one room... /sarcasm

He IS an elected official, open to public scrutiny.

If you think it's a good thing for what the lightrail is supposed to accomplish to be putting felons on the trains, you need to get a clue. Even if they are non-violent offenders, it's clear this is indeed for publicity.

Looks like they did not ever really NEED to pay to park either.
________________________________________________________________
Plan to transport inmates on light rail concerns Phoenix

60 comments by Glen Creno - Jan. 29, 2009 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic

Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio's new system for hauling prisoners on Metro light rail isn't being met with universal praise.

Arpaio spun the plan as a cost-saving measure when he unveiled it to the media on Tuesday. He calls it "Con Rail," and it lets deputies ride the new rail line to and from Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport so his office can save money on parking.

One issue: The airport says parking for law agencies is free.

Officers transporting prisoners can leave their cars at the Phoenix police's airport bureau. The officer and prisoner then ride to the terminal in a bureau police car.

"Nobody pays to park there," airport spokeswoman Deborah Ostreicher said. "That's where the police cars park. They have a few spaces in there. They open them to fellow law-enforcement officers."

Arpaio's office apparently hadn't heard. It has been paying to park at the airport - the maximum fee is $25 a day - since its free parking cards were canceled in 2007 to open spaces for airline passengers.

Under the gun to cut spending, along with the rest of the county, Arpaio decided rail transportation could save a few dollars. His spokeswoman, Lisa Allen, said that every dollar counts in cutting a budget that last year was $289 million.

She estimated that the office spent $25,000 last year to park at the airport. Arpaio estimates the office will spend $72,000 for airport parking during his current four-year term.

"There's not one person over here with the understanding that we have any free parking at the airport," Allen said.

Arpaio's announcement that he would begin using the train to move prisoners caught Phoenix by surprise. Allen said top Phoenix officials called Tuesday after the press release hit to offer "whatever you need" to resolve the parking dispute. Meanwhile, calls and e-mail messages started to filter in to Metro from worried passengers.

"It comes down to them not being comfortable putting themselves or their families on the trains," Metro spokeswoman Hillary Foose said.

"I can't speak for the sheriff or his office, but public transportation is not a controlled environment, and it is not intended for this kind of use."

Deputy City Manager David Krietor, who oversees aviation and other city units, said that Phoenix would have preferred to deal with the dispute directly rather than learning of it via press release.

Still, he said, the top priority is making sure "law enforcement can operate effectively at the airport."

Allen said the issue may not be free parking, but the number of spaces the department is assured. Con Rail stays in business until a deal is worked out.

The office moved one prisoner by rail Tuesday, none Wednesday and possibly may do a few more today.

Allen said the worst criminals are moved by private vehicles, so rail passengers shouldn't worry.

"No one can usually tell who the deputy is and who the prisoner is," she said.

glynnjamin

Jan 29, 2009, 4:25 PM

He IS an elected official, open to public scrutiny.

If you think it's a good thing for what the lightrail is supposed to accomplish to be putting felons on the trains, you need to get a clue. Even if they are non-violent offenders, it's clear this is indeed for publicity.

How is it a good or bad thing? It's not like ConAir where they loaded 24 of the most violent offenders into an enclosed space & they had time to plan & hijack the plane. We are talking about one guy who probably stole a credit card or SS# or something. Hell, I've done worse crimes. Every prisoner I have ever seen is so disgraced to be in public that all they do is stare at the floor. We transport criminals via commercial jet all of the time, does it stop people from flying?

While I agree that, assuming the airport is telling the truth, if parking is free, I'd rather see them drive the prisoners, I can't see anything wrong with using the rail.

As far as publicity goes - I'd argue he is just trying to piss off Gordon.

KEVINphx

Jan 30, 2009, 5:27 PM

How is it a good or bad thing? It's not like ConAir where they loaded 24 of the most violent offenders into an enclosed space & they had time to plan & hijack the plane. We are talking about one guy who probably stole a credit card or SS# or something. Hell, I've done worse crimes. Every prisoner I have ever seen is so disgraced to be in public that all they do is stare at the floor. We transport criminals via commercial jet all of the time, does it stop people from flying?

While I agree that, assuming the airport is telling the truth, if parking is free, I'd rather see them drive the prisoners, I can't see anything wrong with using the rail.

As far as publicity goes - I'd argue he is just trying to piss off Gordon.

Either way, it does no good for the success of the whole damn project by pulling this stunt (which has now apparently been canceled)

You are probably correct in regards to pissing off the mayor but the fact that this guy has shown such a penchant for media-whoring, couple that with the fact that he personally rode on the train with the "felon" under local news media presence is proof enough for most that this was also, at least in part, more media-whoring on the part of the sheriff.

Vicelord John

Jan 30, 2009, 10:17 PM

Jsmscaleros

Jan 30, 2009, 10:29 PM

So if one has commited a felony worse than the criminal being transported, but didn't get caught, they might be riding the train someday to go to work. You'd be sitting next to a dangerous criminal and have no idea. Hmmm, chances are this happens to you every day and you don't even know it. I would much rather be on a train with a handcuffed criminal being watched by a deputy than one out in the wild.

I don't think this is even really about felons riding the trains... it's about a crazy sheriff doing anything to make headlines - not to mention make a mockery of the light rail system to his conservative fans in Scottsdale and Fountain Hills that hate it in the first place.

He's a piece of sh**, albeit an evil genius, and I don't have to be a sheriff or public official to know that.

Vicelord John

Jan 31, 2009, 12:10 AM

Sheriff Joe would kick your ass if he heard you say that.

I saw him in an elevator at Wells Fargo once and shook his hand to say thank you for all he has done.

People like you are roadblocks.

Jsmscaleros

Jan 31, 2009, 12:19 AM

Sheriff Joe would kick your ass if he heard you say that.

I saw him in an elevator at Wells Fargo once and shook his hand to say thank you for all he has done.

People like you are roadblocks.

No, he would have his posse do any ass kicking for him, I'm sure. I'll shake his hand and say thank you when he retires.

HooverDam

Jan 31, 2009, 3:09 AM

Sheriff Joe would kick your ass if he heard you say that.

I saw him in an elevator at Wells Fargo once and shook his hand to say thank you for all he has done.

People like you are roadblocks.

This is a flawed theory, it 1. assumes Sheriff Joe has his hearing, and 2. is sane enough to realize he's alive, cognoscente of where he is, and able to process information.

Those are to big assumptions.

HooverDam

Feb 2, 2009, 11:47 PM

http://www.azcentral.com/community/pinal/articles/2009/02/02/20090202gr-pinalrail0204.html
Deal could lead to rail line between Phoenix, Pinal County
21 comments Feb. 2, 2009 07:45 AM
The Republic
Democrat state Rep. Barbara McGuire says pending federal land swap could lead to a passenger rail line from Phoenix to Superior, opening eastern Pinal County to easy reach of Phoenix.

The Magma Arizona Railroad Company's rail line, which already exists, could provide easy access for seniors to the Valley and bring tourism in both directions, said the Kearny legislator.

"This rail would channel revenue in both directions from the Valley to eastern Pinal County," McGuire said. "The rail would make it easier and more cost-effective for non-drivers and seniors to travel to Phoenix, to access air travel, shop and see their doctors."

The rail also would provide access to a nearby medical campus in Queen Creek and Apache Junction and Central Arizona Community College, she said.

Currently owned by Resolution Copper, the rail originally hauled cattle and copper on 30.2 miles of track to and from the Southern Pacific main line in Magma, between Florence and Queen Creek, McGuire said.

Local, county and state government representatives and Resolution Copper are interested in establishing a passenger collection point at Superior for people traveling to Phoenix from areas like Globe, Kearny and Superior. The rail also could eventually connect to Metro Light Rail in Phoenix, she added.

"This low-cost rail line is a common-sense way to generate revenue and aid people in transportation," McGuire said, suggesting that low-cost speeder cars could be used for the line. "I plan to work with Resolution Copper to make sure this rail line is as efficient as possible for all economic venues."

The Southeast Arizona Land Exchange and Conservation Act includes transfer of land from the federal government to Resolution Copper for mining operations. In return, Resolution Copper would transfer to the government more than 5,500 acres of conservation lands.

McGuire is asking Congressional leaders to consider the rail in the land swap and suggests that it could also be incorporated into transportation within the federal stimulus package.

McGuire said the rail was built as a 3-foot gauge line and was converted to standard gauge in 1923.

Originally headquartered in Superior, the company primarily hauled cattle and copper on 30.2 miles of track.

The Australian mining giant Broken Hill Proprietary Company (BHP) purchased the Magma Copper Company and its lines in 1996 and suspended rail operations on this line a year later, McGuire told Arizona's Congressional delegation in a letter.

McGuire said "speeder rail cars," similar to double-decker buses with a rail undercarriage and powered by propane or other form of clean energy would be cost-efficient since the rail already is in place.

This story seems a bit bizarre to me. It sounds mostly like they're just trying to do a land swap but put in the idea that rail transit may be put in there. Id hate to see the land get swapped and the rail never built. Or perhaps worse, the rail does get built but proves unpopular and hurts AZs chances for future commuter rail.

I'm not really sure how popular a line like this would prove to be. Superior is pretty far East, and not a destination of any kind. Also Google maps doesn't show any rail lines running directly from Superior towards the Valley (though they could be small and not appearing on the map). Are they suggesting running a train from Superior to the 'Magma' area and then up towards the Valley?

It seems to me the best route for higher capacity rail transit would be on the line that connects Downtown Mesa (w/ a station near Center/Broadway), SE through Gilbert (w/ a station near Gilbert/Park ave), perhaps a stop near the 202/Ray road for a link w/ the freeway and a large park and ride, a stop at Power/Pecos Rd to serve ASU Poly & the Airfield, a Queen Creek stop at Rittenhouse/Ocotillo, a stop at Drifter Pass Rd/Quail Run near Magma, where the train would have to change directions to go more due South, a stop in Coolidge somewhere (Im sure they have a historic train station that could be rehabbed). Coolidge could be the end of the initial line if cost was prohibitive.

In the future you could then extend due south through Randloph, La Palma (which is close enough to Casa Grande to serve its needs), and Picacho. Then it goes SE towards Tucson, w/ possible stops at Picacho Peak State Park, Rilito and/or Cortaro. Then into Tucson proper w/ a stop downtown. It could then head due South to have a stop at the Tucson Airport. In the future a 3rd phase could be developed running parallel along the 19 serving the communities South of Tucson, Sahuarita, Green Valley, Amado, Tubac, Tumacacori, and terminate in Nogales. I imagine that link would mostly be used for people in rural areas needing a link to Tucson, but also it would be heavily used by tourists going to and from Mexico.

I also wonder if the current rail corridor running North-South through Chandler could be used as a cost effective way to bring LRT to that area. While I like the in road LRT for its potential to deliver TOD, I imagine some TOD could still happen along this corridor, probably more of the office and light industrial variety though.

Or I probably could've just saved all that typing and drawn a map (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=104507236446463849213.000461f75d81968dd42c6&ll=33.162846,-111.601868&spn=1.034639,2.579041&z=9)

exit2lef

Feb 3, 2009, 1:16 AM

http://www.azcentral.com/community/pinal/articles/2009/02/02/20090202gr-pinalrail0204.html

This story seems a bit bizarre to me. It sounds mostly like they're just trying to do a land swap but put in the idea that rail transit may be put in there. Id hate to see the land get swapped and the rail never built. Or perhaps worse, the rail does get built but proves unpopular and hurts AZs chances for future commuter rail.

I'm not really sure how popular a line like this would prove to be. Superior is pretty far East, and not a destination of any kind. Also Google maps doesn't show any rail lines running directly from Superior towards the Valley (though they could be small and not appearing on the map). Are they suggesting running a train from Superior to the 'Magma' area and then up towards the Valley?

It seems to me the best route for higher capacity rail transit would be on the line that connects Downtown Mesa (w/ a station near Center/Broadway), SE through Gilbert (w/ a station near Gilbert/Park ave), perhaps a stop near the 202/Ray road for a link w/ the freeway and a large park and ride, a stop at Power/Pecos Rd to serve ASU Poly & the Airfield, a Queen Creek stop at Rittenhouse/Ocotillo, a stop at Drifter Pass Rd/Quail Run near Magma, where the train would have to change directions to go more due South, a stop in Coolidge somewhere (Im sure they have a historic train station that could be rehabbed). Coolidge could be the end of the initial line if cost was prohibitive.

In the future you could then extend due south through Randloph, La Palma (which is close enough to Casa Grande to serve its needs), and Picacho. Then it goes SE towards Tucson, w/ possible stops at Picacho Peak State Park, Rilito and/or Cortaro. Then into Tucson proper w/ a stop downtown. It could then head due South to have a stop at the Tucson Airport. In the future a 3rd phase could be developed running parallel along the 19 serving the communities South of Tucson, Sahuarita, Green Valley, Amado, Tubac, Tumacacori, and terminate in Nogales. I imagine that link would mostly be used for people in rural areas needing a link to Tucson, but also it would be heavily used by tourists going to and from Mexico.

I also wonder if the current rail corridor running North-South through Chandler could be used as a cost effective way to bring LRT to that area. While I like the in road LRT for its potential to deliver TOD, I imagine some TOD could still happen along this corridor, probably more of the office and light industrial variety though.

Or I probably could've just saved all that typing and drawn a map (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=104507236446463849213.000461f75d81968dd42c6&ll=33.162846,-111.601868&spn=1.034639,2.579041&z=9)

For the current population distribution, your route makes a lot more sense. I wonder, however, if the Superior route might better serve the Superstitions Vistas area, when and if that area is intensively developed. Regardless, this article is bizarre. It might be another case of the Republic writing about a very speculative plan as if it's going to happen tomorrow. A lot of Republic articles, and especially the headlines, tend to do this.

HooverDam

Feb 3, 2009, 9:11 AM

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/02/03/20090203link0202.html

Buses quickly connect riders, light rail
Mesa's program first of 5 for Valley
by Sean Holstege - Feb. 3, 2009 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic
The opening of the Valley's light-rail system overshadowed the start of another transit service never seen before in Arizona.

The service, in the form of extra-length purple buses, runs along Mesa's Main Street and Power Road and is called Link. It's more than a name; it's a concept. Link will connect outlying areas with light rail by providing a rapid bus that is designed to work like a train. The service is supposed to extend the reach of light rail at a fraction of the cost.

The Mesa Link debuted the same week as light rail. For now, Link involves a fleet of 10 buses. Each $756,000 vehicle carries a transponder to coordinate traffic lights and keep the bus on schedule for a 12-mile run in 45 minutes.

It's the start of a much more ambitious program.

Over the next few months, the Regional Public Transportation Authority, which coordinates Valley Metro bus service, will build stations and add technology to the Mesa line to give it more of the pace and feel of a train.

Mesa's service is the first of five Link lines planned to connect to light rail over the next 15 years. In 2010, a second line will be created to run 12 miles along Arizona Avenue in Mesa and Chandler. It will feature 10 stations and cost $28 million for construction and the purchase of nine buses. Future lines are planned for Scottsdale Road, Baseline Road and Chandler Boulevard.

The 20-mile light-rail line cost $1.4 billion to build.

The Link lines are part of a strategy to improve transit throughout the region and were funded by the 2004 passage of Proposition 400, which allocates a half-cent-per-dollar sales tax in Maricopa County toward transit projects.

Options for riders
For riders, Link offers choices.

Tim Daniels moved to east Mesa in April to take care of his ailing mother at the Leisure World subdivision. The 52-year-old Daniels is looking for work as a bartender, but he has better opportunities in Tempe and Scottsdale.

"This (Link) makes it a lot easier," Daniels said.

Before Link, his westbound trips involved two buses and a hit-or-miss transfer. Now, he can get to downtown Tempe in about an hour using Link and light rail. From there, he can connect to a bus line that runs to Scottsdale or ride the rail to downtown Phoenix. The options have opened job prospects he never had before.

Wanda Woods, 51, of Gilbert, rides Link daily and says she loves it. The bus means she can get to a new bank job in Tempe on Alma School Road much quicker than before.

Woods has noticed the 63-foot bus is usually about half-full and most people are going to the Sycamore/Main Station, Mesa's only light-rail stop.

"I saw somebody yesterday with suitcases going to the airport. I see that a lot," she said.

How it works
Technology and permanent stations will help Link move more passengers and travel faster than a regular bus line can.

A regular bus carries a maximum of about 50 passengers, while a longer Link bus can hold up to 90. The Link line now carries 950 passengers a day, and transit-authority planners expect the number to more than triple in the next few years.

The transit authority awarded an $8.9 million job on Jan. 2 to build stations at each of the 13 major intersections along the route, which connects the Sycamore/Main station and Superstition Springs Center near U.S. 60.

When complete in the fall, the station platforms will allow people to get on and off the buses quickly. As with light rail, the level platform will allow people with wheelchairs or strollers to board without assistance.

In time, planners hope to install light-rail ticket machines and let people use all the doors to enter and exit the bus. Quicker boarding and streamlined payment speeds up the service.

Platform message boards also will tell passengers the location of the next bus and the time it arrives.

The message boards use global positioning technology, which tracks bus movements. On-board transponders give the bus slightly longer green lights when it is running behind schedule. The idea is to create a more dependable schedule than with regular buses. Road tests show that the Link bus can complete its run in two-thirds the time as the parallel local bus, Route 40.

Link is known in transportation circles as bus rapid transit. The concept came into vogue after Los Angeles opened a rapid-bus line in 2000 along busy Wilshire Boulevard to glowing success. The line now carries 50,000 passengers a day, and Los Angeles since has added 25 bus-rapid-transit lines.

Growth pains
Not all Link patrons are entirely thrilled because the service is limited, means making connections and takes getting used to.

Joe McDonald, 35, travels from northwest Phoenix to his job in Mesa.

He takes a local bus to the Montebello/19th Avenue light-rail station, rides the entire line and then rides Link for about 5 miles to his job as a mortgage broker.

On good days, the trip takes two hours. On bad days, when he misses transfers or buses run late, it can take more than three.Like many passengers, he learned about Link through word of mouth. Others discovered it when they saw the distinctive purple bus.

There's still a learning curve. Light-rail passengers have to find the paper sign taped to the pole at the bus bay where Link pulls up. Many people board it not realizing it skips regular bus stops and complain to drivers when their destination passes by.

Jim Book, Link project manager for the Regional Public Transportation Authority, says rapid-bus service will be a success when people can depend on it without relying on a schedule.

Im sorry Joe McDonald, 35, you need to either freakin' move or get a different job. I don't want to hear complaining from idiots like you who choose to live so far from where they work.

Also, I sort of wish they'd redo the streets to provide "LINK" with a dedicated lane for them, I imagine that would help their speed a lot.

glynnjamin

Feb 3, 2009, 3:14 PM

^The link is the most worthless P.O.S. I've ever seen. It should not take an hour to get from Sycamore to Power. It just shouldn't! The normal surface street bus takes the same amount of time and has more stops. The difference is, it only stops when people need to get on and off. The Link stops and waits. It tries to conform to a schedule instead of trying to get people to and from their destination as quickly as possible.

Mesa needs to run overhead electrical lines down Main and have a dedicated trolley service (with its own lane) that runs up and down Main. Let a bus run from Main & Power to Superstition Springs Mall. Then, when they decide to expand the LRT, they can just put the track in and use the same lane & overhead lines.

exit2lef

Feb 3, 2009, 5:56 PM

BRT is acceptable as an interim arrangement until light rail can be extended further east, but it is not a long-term alternative to rail. No matter how much is done to enhance BRT with limited stops, priority at traffic lights, off-bus ticket sales, raised boarding platforms, dedicated traffic lanes, etc. -- it's still just a bus, and buses seldom draw discretionary riders the way that rail does.

glynnjamin

Feb 3, 2009, 5:59 PM

exit2lef

Feb 3, 2009, 7:07 PM

All of this nonsense about BRT and LRT

How about PRT
Treehugger (http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/02/masdar-prt-interview.php)
http://www.treehugger.com/PRT-car-on-display-masdar-abu-dhabi-photo.jpg
Because I don't want to bother quoting the article, let's just sumarize

The arabs are building a carless city. It will have a network of personal taxis under the city that will run on electricity and get you within 100m of anywhere in the city.

What we can conclude from this article is this:
Even in oil rich nations, getting cars off the road is a priority
In the desert, underground transport is nice & cool
We should all work as transportation specialists in the UAE where they actually have the money to do the things we want.

Light rail opponents in Phoenix, desperate to show that they are pro-something, rather than just anti-everything, have promoted schemes like this from time to time. The main difference is that the PRT proposed for Phoenix, SkyTran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skytran), relies on overheard pods instead of underground ones. Of course, these would most likely become private chambers for IV drug use, encounters with prostitutes, etc. In other words, I think they'd be venues for all the behavioral problems that light rail opponents associate with public transportation -- multiplied 100x at least. Schemes like this are fine for places with money to burn, which was probably Dubai until recently, but they seem comical when advanced as light rail alternatives here in Phoenix.

PHX31

Feb 3, 2009, 7:28 PM

/\I think there is already something similar to that which serves the campus/town of the University of West Virginia.

exit2lef

Feb 3, 2009, 7:34 PM

/\I think there is already something similar to that which serves the campus/town of the University of West Virginia.

Morgantown has a people mover system in which each car can accomodate up to 20 people. It's more intimate than a typical rail system, but less so than schemes with pods built for 1,2,3, or 4 people. It's like the Detroit People Mover in terms of being an experimental system running over a relatively short distance. The concept has never really gained traction as the backbone of a major city transit system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgantown_Personal_Rapid_Transit

glynnjamin

Feb 3, 2009, 7:56 PM

No one told me there would be drugs and women! Screw lightrail...
PRT

PARTY RAPID TRANSIT!!!

exit2lef

Feb 3, 2009, 8:11 PM

Sobering news about budget cuts affecting transit systems around the country. We're not alone with our bus cutbacks:

http://tinyurl.com/dz8hdv

HooverDam

Feb 4, 2009, 12:37 AM

http://www.azcentral.com/community/mesa/articles/2009/02/03/20090203mr-gateway0204.html

Williams-Gateway Freeway funding scratched
31 comments by Kerry Fehr-Snyder - Feb. 3, 2009 11:22 AM
The Arizona Republic
Mesa is scrambling to find $20.4 million that Legislators promised two years ago for the Williams Gateway Freeway but pulled from a freeway fund over the weekend to cover a $1.6 billion state budget shortfall.

The $104 million in cuts to the Statewide Transportation Acceleration Needs (STAN) account is a blow to Mesa and its efforts to improve access to the east side of the Phoenix-Mesa Gateway Airport.

"We're now trying to find a Plan B," said Scott Butler, Mesa's government relations director. "We think it's really important for the Southeast Valley and for the Gateway Airport. We haven't given up."

Among the options Mesa is considering is breaking the project into smaller pieces, such as design work and right-of-way acquisition, until the tough fiscal times improve.

Transportation planners have said building the freeway's first mile would cost $215 million, primarily because it would involve constructing costly interchanges.

Williams Gateway Freeway, also known as Arizona 802, is a 22-mile stretch that would run from the eastern end of the Santan Freeway through Pinal County and connect either to U.S. 60 or Arizona 79. Planners have been studying four different alignments for the freeway, which is estimated to cost $325 million to $546 million.

"Really this first mile does so much," Butler said. "It really greatly improves access to the east side of the terminal. The question has been how can we provide better access for airline passengers because it has always been severely slammed in the area."

Phoenix-Mesa Gateway Airport is emerging as a reliever airport to Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport, especially in the Southeast Valley cities of Mesa, Chandler and Gilbert because of their proximity to the airport and ease of use.

Building the freeway also would give motorists better access to the Gaylord Resort project planned for a 52-square-mile area around the Gateway Airport.

Construction on the freeway had been scheduled to begin in 2016. Mesa wanted to start in 2012.

llamaorama

Feb 4, 2009, 2:30 AM

It's said that PRT is the worst of both trains and cars. It both needs expensive tracks like a train, and it's low capacity and inefficient like a car

What they need to invent is a PRT without tracks, IE a robot taxi

HX_Guy

Feb 11, 2009, 4:21 PM

PHX31

Feb 11, 2009, 4:46 PM

So I almost got hit by a light rail car last night, could have very easily happened if I were actually following the traffic lights and wasn't paying attention.

I had just made a left turn onto 1st Ave from Fillmore...but onto the inside lane (between the tracks and the post office/Civic Park). Once you reach the YMCA, there is a stop light, actually two of them, one for the lane I was in and one for the other lanes. The one for my lane dead ends and you have to cross over the tracks at that point to join the other lanes.

Initially the light was red, so I was stopped, but it turned green. The light rail icon lit up as well, which is what made me stop and look in the side mirror, only to find a train almost on top of me. I stopped...he stopped...all while my stop light was still showing green. I signaled the train to go ahead and I waited but what the hell? Would would the light be green for that lane if a train was coming?

I know exactly where/what you're talking about. I'd probably call Metro to let them know what happened if I were you. They might be able to recreate what happened and correct the problem. I'm sure they'd be happy to hear from you to prevent future accidents.

HX_Guy

Feb 11, 2009, 4:53 PM

I sent them an email.

glynnjamin

Feb 11, 2009, 6:15 PM

Vicelord John

Feb 11, 2009, 6:42 PM

So I almost got hit by a light rail car last night, could have very easily happened if I were actually following the traffic lights and wasn't paying attention.

I had just made a left turn onto 1st Ave from Fillmore...but onto the inside lane (between the tracks and the post office/Civic Park). Once you reach the YMCA, there is a stop light, actually two of them, one for the lane I was in and one for the other lanes. The one for my lane dead ends and you have to cross over the tracks at that point to join the other lanes.

Initially the light was red, so I was stopped, but it turned green. The light rail icon lit up as well, which is what made me stop and look in the side mirror, only to find a train almost on top of me. I stopped...he stopped...all while my stop light was still showing green. I signaled the train to go ahead and I waited but what the hell? Should the light be green for that lane if a train was coming?
so you were going to cross the tracks on a green light, not a green arrow?

I'm just trying to understand. Green light does not mean you have any permission to cross the tracks.

I said on AZCentral the other day if you get hit by a train, you should be forced to wear a tshirt that says so for the rest of your life. It's on a track, you know where it is going, and anyone who crosses train tracks should be looking for a train.

Am I the only one that looks both ways before I cross any tracks... actually scratch that HX you said you looked, but I hear of so many people that say they didn't see the train coming or it just came out of nowhere.

How the fluck does a train come out of nowhere?!

nickkoto

Feb 11, 2009, 7:20 PM

This really shouldn't have to be any different than entering any other intersection. Sure, you keep your eyes open and try to avoid what you can, and maybe you give the 100 ton train a little more respect than the average car, but the roads wouldn't function without us making the basic assumption that when we have a green light, the crossing traffic is going to stop at their red light (or horizontal bar).

PHX31

Feb 11, 2009, 7:58 PM

The train doesnt work on the light, what was the bar saying? I see that train stop there every day. That stretch there is just terrible. Everything between McKinley & Washington is a disaster waiting to happen. First there is that loop track on McKinley, then you have that single lane that ppl don't realize is one-way and always go north on, then you have the track split just north of Fillmore, then the lane-change at the park, then the track x-over by Z-Pizza. Amazed only one person has been hit there.

But ya, HX, you gotta look at the bar...either - or | will tell the train if it can go or not. Obviously if the train stopped, he probably had a - which means "traffic is crossing, try not to hit it, unless it is an Orbit bus, you can hit them".

Typical drivers aren't supposed to look at the - or | and when you're at any green light essentially going straight, no one looks before going (like nickkoto is saying). It is jacked up there... but no, the train doesn't stop there everytime... it stops about 100 feet up at the entrance/exit for buses going into Central Station.

Sekkle

Feb 11, 2009, 8:04 PM

so you were going to cross the tracks on a green light, not a green arrow?

I'm just trying to understand. Green light does not mean you have any permission to cross the tracks.

I said on AZCentral the other day if you get hit by a train, you should be forced to wear a tshirt that says so for the rest of your life. It's on a track, you know where it is going, and anyone who crosses train tracks should be looking for a train.

Am I the only one that looks both ways before I cross any tracks... actually scratch that HX you said you looked, but I hear of so many people that say they didn't see the train coming or it just came out of nowhere.

How the fluck does a train come out of nowhere?!

but if I understand HX_Guy correctly, the train was basically coming from behind him, not from the side like cross-traffic. That is definitely a problem. I don't know how many people would think to look behind them for a train. If the opening in the guideway curb allows traffic to join the regular southbound lanes on 1st Ave (i.e. it's not a left-only or something), one or the other (theoretically the car if the train has signal priority) should have a red light. A green light for the car should mean that the train is stopping and the car has permission to cross the tracks.

This is the situation, right? (green = car, red = stop bar (approximately), blue = train)
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj223/Brizzle78/desc.jpg

glynnjamin

Feb 11, 2009, 8:16 PM

Typical drivers aren't supposed to look at the - or | and when you're at any green light essentially going straight, no one looks before going (like nickkoto is saying). It is jacked up there... but no, the train doesn't stop there everytime... it stops about 100 feet up at the entrance/exit for buses going into Central Station.

I wasn't saying typical drivers should look at it, I was just asking him if he looked at it. I don't think the train driver stopped because he thought better of the situation, I think he stopped because he had the -. If that was the case, then he wouldn't have been hit any more than I would have been hit every time I cross in front of it when I have a green light and it has a -. And I never said it stops there everytime, I said that just about every day, I see it stopped there. It is right outside my house and with all of the traffic coming from the construction of the park and the post office, there are occasional situations where the train has stopped there, those seem to happen one of the 50 times I am outside during the day. The train also stops at the crosswalk before it enters the Central Station stop. It does seem like it ALWAYS stops there but it may not.

Vicelord John

Feb 11, 2009, 8:39 PM

maybe because I ride motorcycles and my level of awareness is required to be much higher, but looking at that diagram, I'm thinking a brief look over my shoulder to make sure I'm not going to get hit by a train would be worth the nanosecond it would take.

I stand by my statement that if you get hit by a train, you freakin' deserve it. I'll have no problem repeating it if I get hit by one.

HX_Guy

Feb 11, 2009, 9:22 PM

I wasn't saying typical drivers should look at it, I was just asking him if he looked at it. I don't think the train driver stopped because he thought better of the situation, I think he stopped because he had the -. If that was the case, then he wouldn't have been hit any more than I would have been hit every time I cross in front of it when I have a green light and it has a -. And I never said it stops there everytime, I said that just about every day, I see it stopped there. It is right outside my house and with all of the traffic coming from the construction of the park and the post office, there are occasional situations where the train has stopped there, those seem to happen one of the 50 times I am outside during the day. The train also stops at the crosswalk before it enters the Central Station stop. It does seem like it ALWAYS stops there but it may not.

The train definitely did not stop because of their light. It was an awkward situation where neither of us knew who should go. When the light turned green, I started moving, then noticed the train, so I stopped. The train slowed and then blew it's horn. I figured maybe he wanted me to go, so I inched forward, but he inched forward too. I then stopped an waved him to go ahead of me, which he did. All this while my light was still green.

combusean

Feb 11, 2009, 9:42 PM

That intersection is messed up. That light across from the Y appears out of nowhere with no street markings to really indicate it. A crosswalk and stop lines and a break from the white lane pattern is warranted.

I can't remember what the split lane light looks like--maybe it needs an arrow or two. But you could make the argument since you're really changing directions, ie, making a lane change into traffic, you would have to check your blind spot like any other. The solution could be as simple as a yield sign instead of a light there.

I waited *forever* at the Central Avenue light going westbound on McKinley before I gave up and doglegged on Roosevelt the other night.

PHX31

Feb 11, 2009, 10:16 PM

As long as we're bitching... they still haven't moved the bus stop on EB Thomas at Central. It's still right next to the intersection, even though the newly constructed bus pull out sits empty a hundred feet or so down Thomas for the past 4-5 months. The other day I saw cars backing up to the tracks, luckily the bus then started moving.

NIXPHX77

Feb 15, 2009, 9:49 PM

trains were crowded last night for sure - standing room only mostly.
also the announcement still calls 1st ave "1st street" going southbound
and going northbound announced roosevelt as approaching van buren.

no announcements or postings at the stations saying when the next train would arrive. it all seems inconsistent and erratic still.

PHX31

Feb 17, 2009, 9:18 PM

The train may not change a light once they are red in a romantic sense (ie, they come to the light and magically they change it to green), or in an emergency vehicle pre-emption sense, but they do recall the signal and "minimize the green time of the cross street" if you will. It's my understanding that the trains (assuming all systems and detections finally become online, or they iron out the bugs) have precedence, and if the signal controller dectects a train coming it may switch the green time of the cross street to some set "maximum remaining green time", even if the cross street doesn't reach it's minimum green time for a normal traffic signal cycle.

Point is, if a train comes to a signal which is red for the train, it will make the cross street turn yellow then red much sooner than if the train never showed up, but it doesn't instantly turn it green for the train, hence sometimes you see the trains "wait at a red light"... but they really never wait at a red light as long as one of us in our cars would wait at a red light.

And I have seen a cross street's traffic become "backed up" or congested due to a train minimizing their green time and not allowing any/enough cars through on the cross street (wreaking havoc).

I really think we are being very critical of the systems... it's only been about two weeks of real world service. I think it's only fair they have ample time to work out the bugs.

I found out some more information on what I said above. Plus, the questions keep arising regarding the amount of times the trains have to wait at a signal...

What I said is basically true. I heard today in a meeting that the light rail system even had their own controller made for the operations of the lightrail/traffic signals/etc. These controllers are having problems and basically aren't working correctly... although they're working on it.

We need to keep patient, and as good as it is now, the light rail system will only get better.

Vicelord John

Feb 17, 2009, 9:55 PM

I don't find it to be good right now.

I'm getting sick of the piece of crap.

pbenjamin

Feb 17, 2009, 10:40 PM

I am perfectly satisfied with it. Granted my requirement is modest, Encanto to downtown and back a couple of times a week, but it does what I need it to do.

Vicelord John

Feb 17, 2009, 11:31 PM

oh it does what you need it to do, but it does it shittily.

It stops at all the stop lights, tells me a million things I cant do while raping my ears with the loud messages, and stops running at 1120 pm.

Too bad phoenix is such a craptastic sprawlville that cant support a real train.

glynnjamin

Feb 18, 2009, 3:01 PM

What I can't figure out is why they spent the money building the controllers for these trains and why them embedded them they way they did. For a fraction of the cost, they could have used RFIDs and placed readers on each light pole that the track crosses. Not only could it have relayed more accurate arrival information to each station (basically a LED map that just lights up in a specific place when a train triggers the reader) but it would have made the light transition quicker and easier. Once the RFID is within reading distance of a train (something you can adjust with an antenna & power) it would trigger the pedestrian countdown for cross traffic. Adjust the distance so that the reader picks up the train 25 seconds out (allowing 15 seconds for pedestrians) and kicks the light in. Seems easy. Actually, seems like something I made in my Technology class at Desert Foothills Jr. High - only then I used electromagnets.

I don't really understand how I can have a model HO train set that makes the crossing gates go down & lights blink when the train drives by but for $1.4B Valley METRO can't figure it out.

PHX31

Feb 18, 2009, 3:20 PM

Well, I'm with pbenjamin. I think it serves us well. And will only get better.

HX_Guy

Feb 18, 2009, 7:56 PM

Good stuff!

Light rail ridership exceeds expectation

5 comments by Sean Holstege - Feb. 18, 2009 12:29 PM
The Arizona Republic

The area's new light rail system surpassed ridership expectations in its first full month, Metro boss Rick Simonetta reported Wednesday.

Metro carried an average 30,600 passengers on weekdays in January, the first full month of service. That's good news for light rail boosters, because the region promised 26,000 average weekday riders after a full year of service to justify getting hundreds of millions of dollars in federal grants.

Surprisingly, Metro carried more people on Saturdays,an average of 31,300. That's more than 10,000 over year-end projections.

Another surprise for rail operators was that park-and-ride lots are less than two-thirds full. Planners feared Metro would have a problem with lots filling up immediately, a common experience with other rail openings.

Overall, 911,883 people boarded a light rail train in January.

Vicelord John

Feb 18, 2009, 8:04 PM

the problem is the first few days in january people were still joyriding. I'll expect February's numbers to be a bit more accurate as to the true projection of ridership.

HooverDam

Feb 18, 2009, 8:35 PM

Thats bizarre that the park and rides are less than 2/3rds full, I wonder what could be causing that. Youd think with the Valleys nearly complete lack of TOD most people would have to park and ride. I wonder if a lot of people are carpooling to the park and rides.

Tempe_Duck

Feb 18, 2009, 9:08 PM

I remember reading something (I thing it was on azcentral.com) about Park and Rides on other systems and that Valley Metro, studied them. The article seemed to say that VM overbuilt the Park and Rides so that they wouldn't run into the overcrowding that other systems ran into when they first opened.

glynnjamin

Feb 18, 2009, 9:24 PM

HooverDam

Feb 18, 2009, 11:55 PM

If you ask me, the biggest reason the Park & Rides arent full is because people just park at the store. Like, the Christown one, there is a security guard in front of target - Im gonna park my car there and walk over instead of across the street at the P&R. Same goes for the Safeway on Main. Maybe that's not what people are doing (I've never parked and rode) but it is what I would do.

But why would you do that? It doesn't cost anything to park and the Park and Rides does it (that was my understanding, your train ticket covers the cost), so you're just giving yourself a longer walk.

nickkoto

Feb 19, 2009, 1:25 AM

I've seen more security present at the park & rides than I see at most strip malls.

HX_Guy

Feb 19, 2009, 2:52 AM

Plenty of riders around 4:30pm...

http://nitnelav.com/DTFeb182009/2.jpg
http://nitnelav.com/DTFeb182009/3.jpg

exit2lef

Feb 19, 2009, 4:35 AM

I use the park and ride at Central & Camelback a lot and can always find a spot there. Still, the trains are crowded, so it's an interesting situation and a good one. Sure, we may see the numbers slip a little due to reduced joyriding in February, but I'm predicting ridership will still be high. I'm very pleased with light rail so far, and I'm glad to see the community taking to it. We'll never win over the uber-libertarian transit haters, but a lot of people who were on the fence about rail seem to be getting it.

Sonoran_Dweller

Feb 20, 2009, 3:53 AM

I'm sure that February ridership will go down. I think that the weekday will remain fairly steady, but the weekend will see plummets. Because there won't be any more Train-Tourists. There still might be some, but most people who really wanted to see it, have. I go to ASU every Saturday and Sunday to work on my projects, and most of the time the trains are packed with families just there to take in the ride. You can always tell by the way they act, what they say, how they look around and out the window, and just that NO ONE gets off. I don't know about anyone else, but I've gotten sick of them. But as the novelty wares off the weekend passengers won't be as successful as the January numbers showed. I think the weekday numbers will remain as is, because most of the riders are people who aren't joy riders, who actually are using it everyday to benefit their lives.

HX_Guy

Feb 20, 2009, 4:20 AM

Couldn't February's weekday numbers actually increase due to ASU?
ASU started around January 20th, so 2/3 of the month was already gone and the numbers were still great. Now add a whole month of ASU students and it should look pretty good...plus the All Star Game stuff will influence February a lot so I think the numbers will definitely exceed January.

pbenjamin

Feb 20, 2009, 5:01 AM

February should also have a lot of extra traffic due to the NBA All Star Game and associated activities. We rode it back and forth last Friday night going to the Dodge to see Robin Williams and it (and downtown) was real busy.

HX_Guy

Mar 3, 2009, 5:12 AM

Businesses getting on board light-rail bandwagon

by Jahna Berry - Mar. 3, 2009 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic

When light-rail construction scared off scores of shoppers, many struggling downtown merchants considered the $1.4 billion line more of a curse than a blessing.

Light rail began running in December, and what a difference a few months has made.

Last week, several downtown business owners lobbied a transit agency to make sure that their shops would sit near a future light-rail route.

Metro appeared before an influential downtown business group to talk about plans for a light-rail span that would link West Phoenix, the state Capitol and downtown in 2019.

Metro is weighing several possible routes on the west end of downtown Phoenix. One option would put tracks on Jackson Street. Another alternative would use Washington and Jefferson streets, Metro officials told the Downtown Phoenix Partnership.

Dale Jensen and David Wallach, two of the businessmen behind the proposed Jackson Street Entertainment District pushed for the Jackson Street option. The city wants an entertainment district, and a Jackson Street light-rail route makes sense, Wallach said.

Bill Smith, who owns four downtown restaurants, including Stoudemire's Downtown, argued for the Washington-Jefferson option. All of his downtown restaurants sit near the Washington-Jefferson corridor.

"I have to disagree with my brother, Dale Jensen," Smith said.

The banter was playful, but the stakes are high.

Metro recently announced that initial daily light-rail ridership was nearly 20 percent higher than expected. About 30,000 boardings - one-way trips - are made each day.

If a business is located near the future light-rail line, those trains could bring thousands of potential customers.

HooverDam

Mar 3, 2009, 5:18 AM

^WTF, Jackson St? That makes no sense. It already runs East on Washington/Jefferson, going down to Jackson seems just out of the way. Furthermore Jackson St is already within TOD/walking distance to current lines, as well as lines running west on Wash/Jeff, its not like your business has to be right on the line to see benefit from it.

EDIT: VV I understand they're talking about running it West to the Capitol, sorry if my sentence was confusing. It just makes no sense for it to go down an extra 2 blocks to Jackson, where it will then have to meet back up w/ Jefferson at 12th Ave anyhow when Jackson ends. It seems like a line on Washington and one on Jefferson (like exists East of Central) with them meeting up with each other 'behind' the Capitol on 19th ave makes the most sense.

Vicelord John

Mar 3, 2009, 5:20 AM

My guess is they are talking about running it on Jackson street, west of central, which wouldn't be as redundant as you are hinting.

What do I know though? I only did the math between the capital and jackson street. I'm a little stupid, however.

Fuck, I need a cocktail. 7 weeks without booze and I start using all sorts of words, grammar, and reasoning. This is sick.

glynnjamin

Mar 3, 2009, 6:12 AM

I think it makes sense if you are going to re-open Union Station...something that NEEDS to be done. The line could run south from Central Station down 1st Ave to Jackson, down Jackson to 5th Ave (Union Station), maybe cut north through the lot between 9th & 11th aves up to Madison, down Madison to 19th Ave, and then loop back on Jefferson. Headed East-bound on Jefferson until Central where it can go north through the CityScape plaza area and connect with the north-bound line. That would minimize cross-train traffic, embed rail into CityScape, connect the government part of downtown with the rest of us, and provide a link to commuter rail (which would take the place of some pointless I-10 lightrail line to the west valley.

oliveurban

Mar 4, 2009, 3:06 AM

^ And that's a point the article failed to shed light on. If we ever get commuter-rail service, and or a "high-speed" rail link to Tucson (even god forbid Amtrak, again) someday, those services will likely be utilizing the Union Station. I think it's in our best interest to use or focus what little transit-oriented foresight Phoenix has, in leaving the Union Station as an open variable for future use.

As many of us I know agree, It would be fantastic to eventually see our Union Station become a truly intermodal transit station. If we build the line directly west along Washington/Jefferson, I feel it would cut off any legitimate chance to do that. I would much rather see a fixed rail link between the Union Station and our Metro system, as opposed to operating some neighborhood bus circulator to do the same as the alternative, if Jackson St is not used.

How about using Jackson St, west until only about 8th Ave (not it's entire length), then angling the line back up to Washington/Jefferson St to complete it's trek to the State Capitol?

Just ideas.

HX_Guy

Mar 4, 2009, 3:34 AM

I doubt they would use Jackson St as it's too narrow to run both east and west bound trains on it, so only one direction would work...then what do you do with the other?

HooverDam

Mar 4, 2009, 3:58 AM

I hadn't really thought about connections w/ Union Station and future High Speed or commuter rail. Though like I said and HX Guy reiterated, Jackson seems way too narrow for LRT going both directions, but maybe something like that has been done in other cities. If they had it on Washington, with a stop at 4th Ave, I don't think that would be too bad of a connection, its only 2 blocks. If they had it well shaded it would be ok.

It seems to me that Union Station would be far too small for Phoenix's needs, it was built as a station for a small town that no longer exists. I'm just thinking outloud here, but what about turning 4th Ave from Union Station to Washington St into an enclosed mall of sorts, something similar to St Louis' Union Station (http://www.stlouisunionstation.com/). Though I suppose it may be tricky since the Madison St Jail sits along 4th ave.

combusean

Mar 4, 2009, 11:22 AM

4th Avenue is a bit far off the beaten path--especially for the obvious extension of LRT south on Central Avenue.

There are two vacant blocks surrounding the freight tracks on the west side of Central and enough parking lots to the east to gobble up for station platforms. A closed loop people mover could the connect the whole shebang to Central Station easily enough.

exit2lef

Mar 4, 2009, 4:56 PM

I noticed some changes in the announcements on the train this morning:

The "Van Buren / First Street" error has been corrected. The announcements now say, "Van Buren / First Avenue."

The announcement at 44th St. / Washington now also says, "Sky Harbor Airport."

Also, I think they've done away with having an "arriving <station name>" announcement come just a few seconds after an "approaching <station name>" announcement.

All good changes and responsive to the feedback I've been hearing here and elsewhere.

glynnjamin

Mar 4, 2009, 9:44 PM

^Ya, I noticed those this last weekend. It was SO NICE to not have them say "Next Stop..." and then, 5 seconds later "Now arriving ...". The less that automated voice talks the better.

I never went North of Central Station so I didn't hear them say 1st Ave but that is good to hear. I did notice they called it Sky Harbor Airport now. That was nice too. In all, it was pretty quick on Saturday night. Things are getting better. The rail was packed on the 11pm run. Some people got off at 38th St when they clearly didn't mean to and tried to get back on at the last minute...they got left. Sucks for them.

HooverDam

Mar 5, 2009, 2:29 AM

4th Avenue is a bit far off the beaten path--especially for the obvious extension of LRT south on Central Avenue.

I'm not sure why you think 4th ave is off the beaten path. Its the street that runs directly in to the front of the Union Station. If a goal was to make sure there was a good connection from the LRT to Union Station, enclosing 4th Ave and basically turning it into a terminal of sorts makes sense to me. The 2.5 block walk from Union Station to a potential future stop at Jeff/4th Ave would be much nicer indoors, especially in the summer. The big problem Id see with it is it would be awfully close to the stop at 1st ave.

There are two vacant blocks surrounding the freight tracks on the west side of Central and enough parking lots to the east to gobble up for station platforms. A closed loop people mover could the connect the whole shebang to Central Station easily enough.

Id be fine with a people mover that connected Union Station to the Central Station as well. Though as I've said before, our Central Station is a freaking joke, and needs to be replaced. At the very least something like the Tempe Transit Center, but Id prefer something like the Terminal Tower/City in Cleveland.

Though maybe it would be worth considering moving the Central Station over nearer to Union Station if we were going to get high speed rail so that bus, LRT, rail, taxi's, circulators, etc. could all be in one central place. Of course there would need to be a lot of parking (preferably underground) and perhaps there could even be a mini car rental center there for people coming into Phx via rail.

Leo the Dog

Mar 6, 2009, 4:19 PM

^^^ I have to agree with you about our "Central Station". It really is a joke. What happened to all of the trees/palms that used to be in the central area of the station?

What Phoenix needs is a great iconic station that is clear to everyone what its purpose is. Better signs at the very least. (Take a look at Boston's South Station.)

HX_Guy

Mar 9, 2009, 9:32 PM

Some good stuff...

First-hand account: Riding the Light Rail for the first time
Reported by: Greg Hogue

First hand account:

It's been a long time coming for me. But last week, I thought I would finally get around to riding the light rail.

Being a car guy, it was strange not being on the road and being on guard for other drivers.

And being technologically challenged, I wasn't even sure I could figure out the automated fare kiosks.

Walking up to one of the stops, I didn't have any of the troubles I was worried about. The instructions were simple and straight forward, and in both English and Spanish. I inserted my debit card, pushed the button for the day pass ($2.50) and was on my way.

I missed the first westbound train while I was getting my pass, but it wasn't more then about 15 minutes before the next one came rolling up to the platform.

The light rail car was clean and air-conditioned. There were also plenty of seats, along with a place for bike riders to park their bikes.

Having lived in Phoenix for almost 11 years, I rarely go downtown, except for jury duty.

One reason for that is that's not easy to find a place to park the car. The parking rates aren't cheap either.

Factor in all those people working downtown, rushing to cross the streets, and it's often too much for me.

The light rail is a way to get around my downtown driving drama.

The city of Phoenix set up several park n ride lots along the route so I could park on the outskirts of downtown and enjoy the ride in.

One thing I didn't know was that the rail has stops within a block of US Airways Center and Chase Field (the eastbound rail has a stop right in front of Chase Field). I could actually get out and see more Diamondback games this year!

On my ride into downtown, I saw several restaurants that I want to go back and try when I have more time. I wouldn't have known they were there if I wasn't riding the light rail.

One place is First Watch at One 1st street. They open early so if I worked downtown and wanted some breakfast, I could see myself leaving the house a bit sooner.

Or I might try Fair Trade Cafe, a little coffeehouse that deals only with fair trade coffee and supports local businesses.

One of the stops is only a block from Margaret T. Hance Park on north 3rd Avenue. Near the park is the Irish Culture Center and the Japanese Friendship Garden.

There is so much to see and do around downtown Phoenix that I never knew about until I took the light rail and explored.

I have no excuse now for not seeing what the city has to offer and I have the light rail to thank for that.

Greg Hogue is a newscast director at ABC15

And a couple comments by readers of the article:

Rick01 - 11:47 AM
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I live near a Light Rail station "Central & Vernon" and really enjoy using the new system. A couple of comments I have passed on: Post more information on the electronic boards other than the time & date ie; aprox time of next train arrival, aprox time of last train of the day etc.... Also, I would like to have the train run later on Friday and Saturday nights. I saw the train stop at the station on Sunday morning at 5:00am with not a single passenger, but we don't seem to think it would be worth while to run later when there is a higher probability of passengers.

B621jel - 11:31 AM
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I, too, love the light rail! After riding the RAPID bus from Chandler (40th Street & Pecos) to my job in downtown Phoenix for 4 years, I convinced my husband to move into an area north of downtown Phoenix 2 weeks ago so I could ride the light rail and leave my car at home. I love it, and we are both having a great time discovering all of the attractions and restaurants we never knew existed. Staying out of freeway traffic and having more free time is the way to go!

glynnjamin

Mar 9, 2009, 9:48 PM

^I have freshmen in the "Learning Skills" class who write better than that guy. Oy. What a joke.

Seriously:
One reason for that is that's not easy to find a place to park the car. The parking rates aren't cheap either.

Really?

Tfom

Mar 10, 2009, 6:06 PM

I actually had to park several blocks away from my destination last wed night. I was kind of surprised.

glynnjamin

Mar 11, 2009, 2:46 PM

It's not the statement that he is making Tfom, it is the HORRIBLE GRAMMAR. "THAT'S" as a contraction for "that it is"....

Tfom

Mar 11, 2009, 9:13 PM

It's not the statement that he is making Tfom, it is the HORRIBLE GRAMMAR. "THAT'S" as a contraction for "that it is"....

Well I was so surprised to find a comment that wasn't a tirade of ignorant comments about how light rail is a 43 billion dollar investment designed to kill our sons and rape our daughters I must have forgiven him his poor grammer.

combusean

Mar 12, 2009, 12:15 AM

He's a television journalist to begin with. Still, that doesn't explain the lack of copy editing anywhere.

So Mayor Phil said in his speech the LRT now averages 35,000 riders a day. What to make of that?

Leo the Dog

Mar 12, 2009, 1:21 AM

35k per day is great. Looks like the ASU numbers are now factored in with this count. February is the first full month of classes. Each time I ride, (a few times a week) the trains are standing room only, unless it is early morning hours.

PHXguyinOKC

Mar 12, 2009, 2:38 AM

just talked to a guy i know who's in Phoenix for work from OKC. He just told me how he loves the light rail and wishes OKC would build something like it.

Sonoran_Dweller

Mar 13, 2009, 12:29 AM

This is great:

NEW Link Between Light Rail and the Garden

APS Creates Link Between Light Rail and Desert Botanical Garden

The Desert Botanical Garden is pleased to announce the inauguration of shuttle service connecting the Garden with the Valley Metro Light Rail system. Funded by a generous grant from APS, the shuttle van will run from 9 a.m. to 7 p.m. daily between the Priest/Washington station of Valley Metro Light Rail and the Garden’s entrance. There is no cost to ride the shuttle van.

The first pick-up of the day is at 9 a.m. in the parking lot of the retail center at the northeast corner (gazebo) of Priest and Washington. The last return trip to the Light Rail station leaves the Garden at 7 p.m. The shuttle van will make the round trip twice each hour. Both locations will have signage easily identifying the pick-up sites.

Visit www.valleymetro.org or call 602-253-5000 for light rail and bus routes and times.

Free Shuttle Van - The shuttle service will continue through May 31, 2009.

http://www.dbg.org/index.php/about/news/lightrailanddbg
go to the above link to see the schedule

I would love to see this permanently installed. I don't know why they have to end when the Chihuly exhibit ends. What I would love to see in the short term is a Papago Park shuttle bus. A bus that goes to all of the Papago park sites (Phoenix Zoo, Desert Botanical Garden, Hole-in-the-Rock, Papago Sports Complex, and Arizona Historical Society Museum) and connects with a light-rail station. And in the long term a type of street-car or light rail through the park that goes to Scottsdale.

Vicelord John

Mar 13, 2009, 1:26 AM

haha!

Too bad they didn't have enough money to run it the same hours as the garden... 8-8. Seems the garden goers are in the same part as bar goers and have to cut their night early.

It's a TREND!

HX_Guy

Mar 13, 2009, 8:57 AM

Tfom

Mar 13, 2009, 4:43 PM

Info on the city's quest to get stimulus money for the people mover at Sky Harbor.
http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2009/03/13/20090313airtrain0313.html

PHXguyinOKC

Mar 13, 2009, 8:33 PM

i cant believe az is taking all this money. it isnt free money, its has to be paid back.

HX_Guy

Mar 13, 2009, 8:48 PM

F*ck it...everyone else is taking it...join the game or be left behind is how I look at it. We aren't going to come out ahead by trying to set some example and not take the money.

KEVINphx

Mar 13, 2009, 9:44 PM

i cant believe az is taking all this money. it isnt free money, its has to be paid back.

If our state refused this money, do you think that means it will not just be snatched up by some other hard-up state? It's not as though this money will go unspent if we refuse it! It would just be a foolish act on principle AND we as federal tax payers would still be footing the bill minus the benefit.

Tfom

Mar 13, 2009, 11:12 PM

If our state refused this money, do you think that means it will not just be snatched up by some other hard-up state? It's not as though this money will go unspent if we refuse it! It would just be a foolish act on principle AND we as federal tax payers would still be footing the bill minus the benefit.
Thank you! I get so tired of people pitching a fit like we should refuse this money. It doesn't make any sense.

oliveurban

Mar 14, 2009, 9:38 AM

^ I agree. I'm a taxpayer who is greatly looking forward to getting a "fair share" of this stimulus injected into their own state, and hometown.

As for the Central Station, I hope they help transition it from what I consider a glorified suburban park-and-ride stop, into something more cohesive, as well as more prominent and visually impressive from the street.

HX_Guy

Mar 14, 2009, 5:51 PM

How far could the $10 Million go? To me, it seems like quite a bit of money...but the money they spend on projects is astounding sometimes, so I have no idea.

electricron

Mar 14, 2009, 6:21 PM

Looks like Central Station will get a $10 Million upgrade and rehabilitation...I wonder what they will spend the money on.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/03/13/20090313stim-transit0313.html

Probably most of it on re-roofing Central Station, replacing broken windows, and repainting. You'll be surprised how fast that $10 million will be spent.

HX_Guy

Mar 15, 2009, 6:20 PM

It's pretty incredible how much of a success light rail seems to be so far. I rode it yesterday around 2pm and again around 5pm and both times it was standing room only. 2pm was heading into DT, 5pm was coming back.

This was the 5pm train in midtown...

http://nitnelav.com/03142009/Lightrailcrowd1.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/03142009/Lightrailcrowd2.jpg

ljbuild

Mar 17, 2009, 4:21 PM