[newflyer]

The funny thing about socialism is they hate economics, as it proves lefty theories are inefficient and lacking a great deal in creating a quality of life which capitalism can provide.

I haven't ever met a lefty who appreciated Monitarist economics, or Kenysian, or Supply side economics. It all points to the need to provide effienct markets.


No they prefer Marx .. screw the economy and keep the power. Let the people starve, because they will work harder for crumbs. This is why socialism is dead ... although it is amazing to see pictures of long lines of people waiting to pick up a single loaf of bread... and half of the people got none. A friend of mine is from Poland and has told he how great it was to be ruled by government with no chance to improve your life. Poverty and hunger were common under communist rule.

[Greco Roman]

The funny thing about socialism is they hate economics, as it proves it is inefficient and lacking a great deal in creating a quality of life which capitalism can provide.

I haven't ever met a lefty who appreciated Monitarist economics, or Kenysian, or Supply side economics. It all points to the need to provide effienct markets.


No they prefer Marx .. screw the economy and keep the power. Let the people starve, because they will work harder to crumbs.


I really liked economics. But now I have to take Calculus :yuck: ; now there is a subject matter I can do without.

[skyscraper_1]

^ does the EU have a similar kind of "have" and "have-not" wealth distribution - where weatlhier countries pay in, and poorer countries receive?

And if that is the case - then isn't Ireland a "have-not" country?
In Canada, everyone pays in through general tax revenue and a portion of that money is sent back to the provincal governments to help pay for healthcare and education. This is neccessary because of the unequal development Canada has seen as part of the development of our confederation. Each province has different tax raising capabilties. A larger population centers can provide the same services at lower tax rates then smaller populations. In the constitution it states that all Canadians have the right to roughly comparable services and to do this smaller provinces would have to have higher taxes, which would hurt business and further hurt their economies...but i am getting off-topic.

I am not sure the actual mechanism in which money is/was transfered. I do not believe there is a direct transfer of money from the EU to the Irish government, but there are various EU development funds that could be drawn upon and also EU subsidies to business and agriculture. Perhaps someone with better knowledge of the E.U. could explain it.

[skyscraper_1]

I really liked economics. But now I have to take Calculus :yuck: ; now there is a subject matter I can do without.
I think economics is awesome, though some of the beginner classes are bit boring!

Calculus is the devil. :D

[Boreal]

As far as socialism goes... People aren't equal. Sad but true.

In my humble opinion, competition is what drives this world. Competition for ...money!!! Remove the competition (by the installation of market socialism) and you get a backwards country like Russia circa 1960, where they didn't try to produce 10,000 tractors. They instead tried to produce 1,000,000 pounds of tractor. So, manufacturers realize that the lofty government goals are unattainable using light weight and useful metals, so instead use massive amounts of cast iron to create tractors two times or more that of the weight of those in North America at the time. What happens? Well, the overweighted tractors, produced to meet government industry goals sank in the mud. Literally. Ooops.

As much as I like and appreaciate the work of sanitation engineers, the day a garbageman gets put on an equal plateau as a neuro-surgeon is the day I exercise my right to leave this world. With no competitive drive to shape our society, why strive to be a doctor, when you can live equal without pushing yourself. Oh yah... this is the wonderful NDP ideology ...all people want to be their best. BULLSHIT! Some people are VERY HAPPY with a mediocore standard of living at best. Why would anyone reward the half-assed and take from those who strive for greatness. Put it in terms of sports. It'd be like paying a guy playing professional baseball for the Winnipeg Goldeyes the same as Albert Pujols, super stud of the St.Louis Cardinals because, "they both work hard at their job". Yah sure ...but the fact that Pujols does it better then everyone else, and 10,000 times better then that of a Goldeye doesn't deserve him financially more?

John Maynard Keynes himself would laugh.

Capitalism DOES NOT EQUAL planetary destruction. Governments can be useful, set bi-laws that force business to play by rules that support the environment and it's the best of both worlds.

Quite simply put, with capitalism, you are playing to win, with socialism, you are playing not to lose.

Social liberalism is great, and something I stand-by, but it is business that provides the jobs that allow us to live well. It is free-market capitalism that drives up our standard of living, AND IT IS FREE-MARKET CAPITALISM THAT WILL FIND ALTERNATIVE FUELS AND INSTITUTE THEIR USE AMONGST THE MASSES!

Why?

Because there is a dollar to be made, for winning the competition, as opposed to getting paid to rest on one's laurels.

[newflyer]

Okay.... we have kind of gotten way off subject.


To remind everone... the Manitoba Chamber of Commerce has proposed that Manitoba strive to become a "have province".

Thoughts and comments on how this can be done.

It is obvious the same old policies of the past haven't worked at all. We need a new direction, which will improve the productivity per capita, which is just another way of looking at wealth. The more productive society is the wealthier it is.

How do we increase the productivity of society? What efficiences are there to be had? Is Manitoba's ecomony embracing modern means of production? Is there enough incentive in Manitoba to be productive? Is there enough incentive to incourage investment in the newest techologies to improve production in Manitoba? Is Manitoba dealing with the modern global economy?

Sometimes I think Manitoba is much too reliant on looking back and ignoring the economic reality of today. Yes Winnipeg was a great city 100 years ago.. state of the art metropolis. How do we make Winnipeg the state of the art metropolis of today?

[Greco Roman]

Sometimes I think Manitoba is much too reliant on looking back and ignoring the economic reality of today. Yes Winnipeg was a great city 100 years ago.. state of the art metropolis. How do we make Winnipeg the state of the art metropolis of today?


Agreed :)

[Wayfarin Stranger]

Well, first year economics, "the fundamentals", also covers the topic of market failure, and some people of the right wing persuasion don't seem to acknowledge this concept very often.

[h0twired]

Quite simply put, with capitalism, you are playing to win, with socialism, you are playing not to lose.

This made me think of the whole St Charles Hotel debate.

Perhaps Manitobans should be fighting harder to find investors to develop the downtown parking lots instead of wasting energy trying to prevent buildings from getting torn down.

[drew]

This made me think of the whole St Charles Hotel debate.

Perhaps Manitobans should be fighting harder to find investors to develop the downtown parking lots instead of wasting energy trying to prevent buildings from getting torn down.

Perhaps building owners who stubbornly hold on to buildings for years on end, refusing to sell to potential buyers who not only want to redevelop the building, but also keep the ones beside it... these are the people we should be directing our fight towards.

[chenmau]

The Dippers need to read some Ayn Rand.

[Greco Roman]

The Dippers need to read some Ayn Rand.


???????????????????????? :shrug:

[chenmau]

???????????????????????? :shrug:

Dippers = NDP
Ayn Rand is an author whose novels are romantic and dramatic, and they espouse a philosophy of rational self-interest that opposes the collective of the modern welfare state.
Her books are great. I loved Atlas Shrugged

[Greco Roman]

Dippers = NDP
Ayn Rand is an author whose novels are romantic and dramatic, and they espouse a philosophy of rational self-interest that opposes the collective of the modern welfare state.
Her books are great. I loved Atlas Shrugged

ah, I C

[Arriviste]

The Dippers need to read some Ayn Rand.

Haha, I loved this post.

[Waterlooson]

....my ideology is communism and socialism....

Have you considered donating your bones to the Tyrrell Museum of Paleontology after you die? ;)

[freeweed]

The Dippers need to read some Ayn Rand.

Uh oh. Now you've done it. This thread is hereby dispersed due to a modern incarnation of Godwin's Law. :haha:

Rand was a brilliant woman, but she let her experiences with hardline communism take her just a biiiiit too far the other way. Most of her philosophies were refreshing to read, but overall I think she was the inspiration for the term "flogging a dead horse". We get the point lady, and a 78 page after-the-fact rant isn't necessary. ;) Unfortunately, mentioning her name in most discussions, online or otherwise, is a great way to make people think you're a kook.

Oh, and for the record, I take a fair bit of offense at the term "right-wing". Contrary to what modern politicos would like you to believe, there are a lot more combinations of opinion and political/economic beliefs than simply "left" and "right". Interestingly enough, Ms. Rand was one of the first to see this, it's too bad that decades later most people still do not. Then again, most people learn these terms in high school, and don't progress much further than viewing the world as though it was an "us" vs "them" hockey match... :(

Back on topic, Manitoba needs far more Rand and far less Marx. :tup:

[ScottFromCalgary]

Well, first year economics, "the fundamentals", also covers the topic of market failure, and some people of the right wing persuasion don't seem to acknowledge this concept very often.

Of course there is the possibility of market failure. But in highly-developed, well-functioning markets like we have in Canada, you must at least acknowledge that the possibility of sustained market failure is much less likely than widespread inefficiencies resulting from a command-style economy.

[spiritedenergy]

Have you considered donating your bones to the Tyrrell Museum of Paleontology after you die? ;)

I perfectly know to be a living fossil:D but in Canada, in my place we have 2 communist parties in power (well, a large coalition that goes from catholics to radicals to greens to socialists to communists), and everyone there is communist at least once in a lifetime (usually between 15 and 25 y.o.); then the dreams fade away. Che Guevara is kind of a national hero among teenagers... Italy is an interesting place:cool:

[IntotheWest]

Che Guevara is kind of a national hero among teenagers... Italy is an interesting place:cool:

Ahh...that might explain why there were so many young kids the last few years wearing Che T-shirts. Yes, Che did a world of good for Cuba - look at them now.

What does Italy have to do with Che...refresh my memory??

[freeweed]

Ahh...that might explain why there were so many young kids the last few years wearing Che T-shirts. Yes, Che did a world of good for Cuba - look at them now.

What does Italy have to do with Che...refresh my memory??

This is more a side-effect of the usual anti-authority/rebellious attitude of most teens. Otherwise phrased as "F the man!" In the 80s it was the Anarchist symbol. (Most teens really don't understand that their iPods - or hell, their t-shirts - wouldn't exist in an Anarchist society, but who are we to judge...)

The irony of course, is that Che helped usher in one of the most authoritarian regimes in human history. But this is why we try not to let teenagers run our political systems. :haha:

[Xelebes]

Kante > Marx

Kante's Law (the social-level rule of thumb seen in Scandinavia) with a greased economic wheel is probably the way to go for a successful left government. A company can run, but it's not about the CEO of the company or the worker of the company, it's the product that matters.

[newflyer]

.... maybe I entered the wrong thread....


.. has anyone seen the one about making Manitoba a have province....

This simplistic post adolesent ideology thread is sooooooooo interesting, but I have to go watch paint dry and read about prehistoric mold. :sly:

..... life is so unfair :rolleyes: ....kids.

I must have missed this phase.. because when I graduated highschool I was running my first little biz and buying my first stocks.

[freeweed]

.... maybe I entered the wrong thread....


.. has anyone seen the one about making Manitoba a have province....

This simplistic post adolesent ideology thread is sooooooooo interesting, but I have to go watch paint dry and read about prehistoric mold. :sly:

..... life is so unfair :rolleyes: ....kids.

I must have missed this phase.. because when I graduated highschool I was running my first little biz and buying my first stocks.

Interestingly enough, Manitoba remains a "have not" province because its leaders keep recycling those same adolescent ideologies...

There, now THAT is flamebait. You and your free-market blatherings just aren't enough to keep a thread going anymore. :jester:

[chenmau]

Unfortunately, mentioning her name in most discussions, online or otherwise, is a great way to make people think you're a kook.


Freeweed, I am a kook. :crazy2:

[IntotheWest]

This is more a side-effect of the usual anti-authority/rebellious attitude of most teens. Otherwise phrased as "F the man!" In the 80s it was the Anarchist symbol. (Most teens really don't understand that their iPods - or hell, their t-shirts - wouldn't exist in an Anarchist society, but who are we to judge...)

The irony of course, is that Che helped usher in one of the most authoritarian regimes in human history. But this is why we try not to let teenagers run our political systems. :haha:

Yeah, I kinda figured that out...strange how teens see the glory in what Che represented, and not the affects. But, that's what being a teen is about.

Too bad Che wasn't around now, he might be able to help Manitoba too.

[psych1]

!