[MarkDaMan]

Tom Moyer to build 35-story downtown office tower
Portland Business Journal - 3:18 PM PST Thursday
by Wendy Culverwell
Business Journal staff writer

The temperature of Portland's downtown office market rose Thursday with the announcement by developer Tom Moyer that he will build a 35-story office tower just west of Nordstrom.

Moyer's firm, TMT Development, said it would break ground this fall on the $150 million project, which it has dubbed Park Avenue West at Park Avenue and Yamhill Street. The building will occupy Park Block Four, currently home to the Zell Brothers Building and kitty-corner from Moyer's most recent skyscraper, the 27-story Fox Tower.

Park Avenue West is being designed by Robert Thompson, founding principal of TVA Architects Inc., which also designed Fox Tower, which opened in 2000.

At 410 feet, the new building will be among Portland's tallest. And with 525,000 square feet, it will easily eclipse its sibling, the Fox Tower, which is Portland's sixth largest office building with 438,000 square feet.

The new building will have approximately 280,000 square feet of Class A office space, three floors of retail, 85 units of housing and 350 underground parking spaces.

The announcement comes as Portland faces its tightest market for downtown office space in recent years. According to the most recent figures from Grubb & Ellis, the vacancy rate for Class A space in the central business district has dropped to 5.9 percent and asking rents have inched up to $23.80 this quarter, from $22.66 a year ago. As a rule of thumb, it takes rents in the mid-$30s to justify new office construction.

"Everybody knows we're heading into a tightening market," said David Squire, managing director at Grubb and Ellis.

At present, major office users have little to choose from in downtown. Offerings include four spaces of 20,000 to 30,000 square feet, one between 30,000 and 50,000 square feet, and nothing above that.

With rents rising and a tight market giving major tenants little room to grow, several developers want to answer demand with new supply. BesidesMoyer, Equity Office Properties is still pressing ahead with plans for a 15-story office building plans at First and Main.

Squire said any one of the developers considering new office towers is capable of pulling it off, but said Moyer has an edge since he is sole proprietor of his firm.

"He certainly did it before with the Fox Tower. He answers to no one," he said.

"This is probably good news for downtown."

In addition to Fox Tower, TMT owns and operates the 1000 Broadway building and the Studio Building. Its headquarters are at Fox Tower.

TMT officials weren't available to comment this afternoon. They gave no indication of any pre-leasing activity in announcing plans to construct the new tower.

wculverwell@bizjournals.com | 503-219-3415
http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/stories/2007/01/15/daily31.html?t=printable

[Dougall5505]

Yes!!!

[twofiftyfive]

Hopefully the parking will share an entrance with the Fox Tower and PB5 garages.

[mSeattle]

Awesome! Hope it's a good design.

[cab]

Typical, a plus replacing a plus. We lose the virginia cafe with this development. A few dozen wasted propeties in the area that this building could have been put on, but I believe most are stuck in the goodmans hands. Not so sure this is a postive development.

[roner]

Cab,

How are you sure that this is going to replace the cafe? I thought west of Nordstroms was that new park. Has anyone seen some renderings?

[pdxstreetcar]

Awesome news! Considering that the architects are TVA, I'm expecting this will be a great design.

This is the block where Mercantile, Zell and Virginia Cafe are now. It is one of the smaller blocks downtown (100 x 200 ft). We heard rumors of this at least a year ago but I dont think it was going to be anywhere near this tall.

I agree cab that it is unfortunate that this replaces some successful businesses in fabric buildings especially when there is a parking lot less than a block away but I would imagine the businesses would definately relocate and I personally don't consider the buildings on this block architecturally significant.

[WonderlandPark]

Wow, a big one out of the blue.

Did this up on the fly:

http://www.pixelmap.com/images/Nav/moyer.jpg

[James Bond Agent 007]

Wow, great news! I'm jealous.

Can't wait to see a rendering.

[pdxstreetcar]

This would be the city's 5th tallest (PacWest Center is 417 ft).

Note the 85 housing units in the proposal.

[bvpcvm]

holy crap. this is great news. i wonder what happens to those other office projects down on 1st now?

[pdxstreetcar]

BesidesMoyer, Equity Office Properties is still pressing ahead with plans for a 15-story office building plans at First and Main..

[Hoodrat]

good for PDX:tup:

[PacificNW]

I am looking at the prospect of a "fabulous" design!

[der Reisender]

just about pissed myself when i saw this and that its supposed to start work this fall

happy that TVA is the architect, hoping we get something as cool as the Broadway Tower we've seen around here that would be next to the Ladd. Big fan of the height and mixed uses too. Now I reallllyyy want a G/E tower to replace the Yamhill smart park

[sirsimon]

Awesome! I am hoping this will be an awesome design. :)

[360Rich]

Yes! How'd I miss this, it was totally off my radar?!?!?

Very happy to hear that it will break ground so quickly.

[360Rich]

Tom Moyer, developer of downtown's Fox Tower, will announce Friday that he intends to start construction this fall on a $150 million high-rise office tower that could add long-sought retail vitality to a sleepy midtown section of downtown.

The Park Avenue West tower, at Southwest Park Avenue north of Yamhill Street, would contain 35 stories of offices, retail and condos on a half-sized block that many have hoped could someday become one of several new park blocks connecting the North and South Park Blocks. The 410 foot tall tower, if built today, would be the fourth-tallest building in Oregon, peeking over the Moyer-owned Fox Tower and the 387 foot PacWest Center, currently the fourth tallest.

"It's a good, underdeveloped block in town," Moyer said in an interview Thursday. "It's one block off Broadway. It's a good retail area. Its an opportunity to invest a little money there."

Moyer's TMT Development and another Moyer company bought the site for the new tower last week from the Zell family. Known as Park Block 4, or the Zell Block, it is most known for the Zell Bros. jewelry store and the Virginia Cafe, among other retail.

Moyer, 87, was once a Portland-area theater chain owner. But in recent decades, he has plowed a fortune into building highrise office tower's downtown and suburban retail centers.

Aside from the rare addition of office space, the Park Avenue West project is expected to include 85 condos on its upper floors and three floors of retail space starting on the first floor. It also would have 350 parking spaces that Moyer said he woudl like to connect to the parking under construction on Park Block 5, just south of the site.

Moyer said he has already started a list of national retailers with no presence in the Portland area, that could anchor the space, totaling about 45,000 square feet.

For full details, see The Oregonian on Friday.
- Dylan Rivera

http://www.oregonlive.com/newslogs/oregonian/index.ssf?/mtlogs/olive_oregonian_news/archives/2007_01.html#227036

[pdxstreetcar]

I would imagine this would go through design review quite soon if it is supposed to start construction later this year.

Looks like it will be 4th tallest. SSP diagrams had PacWest at 417 ft.

I cant wait to see tomorrows Oregonian, hopefully there will be at least a preliminary rendering.

[alexjon]

Swoon!

[Dougall5505]

im hoping theres a rendering in tomorrows paper

[bvpcvm]

here's some crappy googleearthitude i threw together.

green = moyer tower
yellow = zgf
manhattan = blue

height on the zgf might be a bit off.


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/bvpcvm/viewwzgfmanhattanandmoyertowers2.jpg

[Dougall5505]

nice render its really too bad they reduced the height on the zgf tower
bvpcm: can you put a 450 footer on the 10th and yahmill parking garage

[PDXPaul]

Is there still plans to replace the 10th and Yamhill Garage? God, I always parked there when going downtown to Fox Tower Cinemas. Next time I'm home the garage will be gone, that park will be there, this skyscraper will be there. Jeez.

[Drmyeyes]

This project would almost definitely kill any possibility of a nearly contiguous chain of Park Blocks as variously attributed to Olmstead and others. It's something to think about, because it's one thing to erect a building, but quite another to take it down for any reason once its up, especially such a massive structure as planned.

The hotly debated, criticized and ultimately put aside plan that Goldschmidt was part of had merit inspite of his backdoor dealings. The points of criticism weren't that strong; uncertainty about the potential loss of historic buildings in the park route (even though its rarely something thought to do, their facades could have been removed and reused in new construction) and fear about the park somehow creating a barrier that wouldn't be healthy for business.

Things could be worse than having Moyer plant his tall tower on that block. He tries harder than some of the others to create good buildings. This tower is at an angle relative to the sun that won't allow it to block sun from Pio Sq or South Park Blocks. Even the North Park Blocks should mostly escape its shadow.

The site really does only have one older building with potential character value, (the upper stories have been vacant and boarded up for years.) Moyer is smart; gives the city a block to build a park upon, and then borders it on two sides with his buildings, making quite a long lasting personal legacy that will be impressed upon the city for decades.

So I'm kind of receptive to Moyers tower, but a little disappointed that the park idea looks to be gone forever.

[bvpcvm]

i figured there's no way they're building two 400+ foot towers that close to each other without some kind of set-back, so i put the morrison garage tower on the corner.

i'll bet there are some architecture students out there with sketch-up skillz who could do a much nicer job, if ANYONE LIKE URBANLIFE OR ZILFONDEL have the time, hint-hint...

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/bvpcvm/viewwzgfmanhattanandmoyertowers3.jpg

[sirsimon]

Thanks for posting that - this really helps me visualize the impact these buildings will have on the overall urban "feel" of that part of DT. :)

[westsider]

^ I think the idea of a complete chain of park blocks has been dead for quite a long time now. The other buildings built on the potential parks are not exacty teardowns, and with or without this building it would take many years to realize. Maybe in Portland of 2100 there will be the will and ability to complete them, but for now I think this tower will do much more for downtown than a park would.

[Chicago3rd]

Great news. What is exciting is a building that tall and slender!

[MarkDaMan]

The continuous park block idea was dead when they erected the Paramount Hotel...and in any case, think of how many historic treasures would have to be torn down for the continuous parkway. It's time to develop a new continuous parkway on top of the 405!

The Oregonian article today didn't have a rendering, but they did have half a slice of a tower to depict it's height in comparison to the three taller towers already in Portland. Not sure if it was generic or based on something but it has a KOIN tower type shape.

Developer will erect 35-story high-rise
Zell Block - Tom Moyer plans to build a 410-foot tower combining retail, office and residential units
Friday, January 19, 2007
DYLAN RIVERA
The Oregonian

Tom Moyer, developer of downtown's Fox Tower, will announce today that he intends to start construction this fall on a $150 million high-rise office tower that could add long-sought retail vitality to a sleepy midtown section of downtown.

The Park Avenue West tower would contain 35 stories of offices, retail and condominiums on a half-sized block that many have hoped could someday become one of several new park blocks connecting the North and South Park Blocks. The 410-foot-tall tower, if built today, would be the fourth-tallest building in Oregon, peeking over the Moyer-owned Fox Tower and the 387-foot PacWest Center, currently the fourth tallest.

"It's a good, underdeveloped block in town," Moyer said Thursday. "It's one block off Broadway. It's a good retail area. It's an opportunity to invest a little money there."

Moyer helped found the Park Blocks Foundation, which had launched an attempt a few years ago to link the South and North park blocks together with open space and retail. That attempt met resistance from some historic preservationists who objected to razing National Register historic buildings in the path of the blocks.

"I'm sad and disappointed that we lose the chance to have that block as open space for the next 100 years or so," said Jim Westwood, foundation president. "My great-grandchildren are going to have to carry on, I guess."

Moyer's TMT Development and another Moyer company bought the site for the new tower last week from the Zell family. Known as Park Block 4 or the Zell Block, it is best known for the Zell Bros. jewelry store and the Virginia Cafe, among other retail.

Moyer, 87, was once a Portland-area theater chain owner. But in recent decades, he has plowed a fortune into building high-rise office towers downtown and suburban retail centers.

With his Park Avenue West proposal, many in real estate said Moyer could repeat the accomplishment of building a high-rise without the advance leasing commitments most developers need to convince a bank to loan.

By the time it was finished in 2000, the Fox Tower was 93 percent leased.

"I likened the Fox Tower to a perfect storm," said Michael Holzgang, a veteran downtown office broker with the Colliers International firm. "I think there's another perfect storm in the offing."

Pending city approval, Moyer said he would start construction on 280,000 square feet of Class A office space -- about 14 floors -- even without a commitment from a tenant.

At least three other developers have been marketing downtown-area high-rise office tower proposals, but not one has been able to secure an anchor tenant willing to agree to pay the $35-a-square-foot rent that new construction would require.

Equity Office Properties Trust, the largest office building owner in the nation and the Portland area, has said for more than a year that it would not start a building without an anchor tenant.

The announcement of Moyer's intentions will be a significant blow to Equity's First and Main building and other projects, Holzgang said.

"Tom has certainly proven he has vision and an uncanny sense of timing," Holzgang said.

Greg Goodman, one of downtown's largest landowners and developers, applauded the show of moxie on Moyer's part.

"It's going to be an identity piece for Portland," Goodman said. "Tom builds quality stuff. He's in it for the long term."

Moyer's companies paid $13.5 million for the 20,000-square-foot block, or about $675 a square foot. That far surpasses the $7.6 million, or $190 a square foot, that Equity Office paid for its block at the foot of the Hawthorne Bridge.

The Park Avenue West project is expected to include 85 condos on its upper floors and three floors of retail space starting on the first floor. It also would have 350 parking spaces that Moyer said he would like to connect to the parking under construction on Park Block 5, just south of the site.

Moyer said he has already started a list of national retailers, with no presence in the Portland area, that could anchor the space, totaling about 45,000 square feet.

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/1169182509299320.xml&coll=7

[MarkDaMan]

Moyer said he has already started a list of national retailers, with no presence in the Portland area, that could anchor the space, totaling about 45,000 square feet.

this is friggin' incredible for that area of downtown...the 'lifestyle center' type streets (but the real thing) are finally coming together. I hope one day Portlanders are smart enough to restrict traffic on Park Ave and make it more 'european pedestrian'

anyone hear any information about the Nordstrom upgrade? They were long rumored to be considering buying the Zell Block for expansion but that seems dead now.

[65MAX]

I've seen renderings of Park Avenue West. If you like the Broadway Tower proposal, you're gonna LOVE this.... :tup:

[pdxstreetcar]

Simple elevation render:
http://www.oregonlive.com/oregonian/ftp/Friday-A1.pdf

I'm assuming this is at least an idea of what it will look like and not just some random design to represent the tower made up for this graphic.

I think having continuous parks would really be a barrier. Dont get me wrong I love the park blocks tremendously but the series of park squares surrounded by buildings in the core of downtown makes the most sense to me.

I guess it could be possible that Nordstrom becomes the retail tenant in this building and then has either a skybridge between the two or just two seperate stores much like Saks down the street.

[Dougall5505]

I've seen renderings of Park Avenue West. If you like the Broadway Tower proposal, you're gonna LOVE this.... awwww 65 max your killing me with the suspense. how soon do you think the rendering will be released?

[65MAX]

TMT is very guarded with their releases, but they have always done first-class projects. This one is no exception. Hopefully they will release something within the week.

The small footprint on this block wouldn't work well for Nordstrom, but there are a number of high-end clothing retailers who do not yet have Portland locations. This will be the prime location for them (next to a remodeled Nordy's)

[pdxman]

this is awesome news! i did a double take when i saw this--it made my day. lets all hope for an awesome tenant for that retail spot. what kind of tenant could fit in that spot anyways? it doesn't seem huge...also, will this affect the broadway tower? does anyone have a clue if thats going to be built? i'm also wondering if this is going to kill that 1st and main building?

[Dougall5505]

the shape is interesting
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l177/dougall5505/Picture2-6.png?t=1169230372

[65MAX]

The urban design implications of this building are huge. This will become the main backdrop to Pioneer CH Square, the terminus of the lowrise corridor between Morrison and Yamhill to the river and towering over the remodeled Nordstrom block. It's also on axis with the South Park Blocks, with the above preliminary elevation outline being the south elevation facing PB5.

[urbanlife]

I am torn on this one. I knew it was a matter of time before this happened. I am sad about the buildings the city will lose, there is some great architecture on that block. But at the same time, I think it will be a major jumpstart to our old midtown blocks and could make this european streets dream a reality.

Plus with this new park block, this would become one of the next new prime locations downtown, and that part of town is just amazing in its urban fabric.

[MarkDaMan]

The urban design implications of this building are huge. This will become the main backdrop to Pioneer CH Square, the terminus of the lowrise corridor between Morrison and Yamhill to the river and towering over the remodeled Nordstrom block. It's also on axis with the South Park Blocks, with the above preliminary elevation outline being the south elevation facing PB5.

ooooh, I can't WAIT to see the full rendering! Thanks for the info...

Question, at 410' but up 5 blocks from the Wells and US Bancorp, and even more from the KOIN, will this tower rise higher than those towers, elevation wise? I can imagine this looking like a new tallest from the eastbank because the Fox certainly looks taller than it is.

Urbanlife, great architecture? The Zell Block has always looked a bit shabby to me and doesn't connect with the street well at all, IMO. It was either gonna become a park or tower eventually...I'd rather have the tower.

[MarkDaMan]

BTW...it appears the Broadway Tower rendering is not for the Broadway Tower. There is a rendering for a tower in Tangshan China that looks, at least in one rendering, to be the Broadway Tower...www.tvaarchitects.com

[Dougall5505]

yah every time i check that website i think that they put the rendering for the broadway tower back up but its just some building in China. but that was there when when the broadway tower was still on the site so i don't think they replaced its design

[mcbaby]

This tower is at an angle relative to the sun that won't allow it to block sun from Pio Sq or South Park Blocks. Even the North Park Blocks should mostly escape its shadow.


that was one of my concerns. how the light would effect the park blocks and pioneer square. also will miss the virginia cafe. very old. they should try and preserve the interior.

[tworivers]

I'm certainly excited to see what will be a well-designed tower go up (will it be LEED-rated???), but not happy about the loss of old buildings, whether they qualify as "important" or not, when there are SO MANY parking lots and garages around downtown. It is, granted, a perfect block for a tall tower.

I'd like to see some skyline renderings from TVA, particularly looking at downtown from the NE (like from the Bway bridge) and possibly including the towers that bvpcvm included. I predict that that perspective, looking SW, becomes the preferred skyline shot over the dull and over-used east-to-west shot. I think about such things.

Thanks 65MAX for all the info! Anything else you want to fill us in on? (wink)

[zilfondel]

i'll bet there are some architecture students out there with sketch-up skillz who could do a much nicer job, if ANYONE LIKE URBANLIFE OR ZILFONDEL have the time, hint-hint...

Actually, bvpcvm, I thought you did a wonderful job... those reds and yellows reallyl bring out the colors of Portland... and I don't have internet on a computer with google earth + sketchup... Urbanlife! :(

[zilfondel]

Moyer's companies paid $13.5 million for the 20,000-square-foot block, or about $675 a square foot. That far surpasses the $7.6 million, or $190 a square foot, that Equity Office paid for its block at the foot of the Hawthorne Bridge.

Oh my god that's a lot of money: $27 million an acre in downtown Portland! Geezus...

[zilfondel]

Simple elevation render:
http://www.oregonlive.com/oregonian/ftp/Friday-A1.pdf

I'm assuming this is at least an idea of what it will look like and not just some random design to represent the tower made up for this graphic.

I think having continuous parks would really be a barrier. Dont get me wrong I love the park blocks tremendously but the series of park squares surrounded by buildings in the core of downtown makes the most sense to me.

I guess it could be possible that Nordstrom becomes the retail tenant in this building and then has either a skybridge between the two or just two seperate stores much like Saks down the street.

Actually, the city of Portland has banned any future skybridges in downtown.

And I totally agree with you on the park-avenue plazas surrounded by buildings - gives them MORE identity than a linear park - and a separate one at that: time changes, so do plans...

Anyone want to start a 405-park fund? I'll donate a dollar!


and could make this european streets dream a reality.

Except Europe has few, if any, highrises. No sir-ree, this is an addition to a genuine, dyed-in-the-wool all-American downtown! And it will fit quite well, I believe. Now I just wish they would keep building highrises on both sides of Broadway all the way down to PSU.

[PacificNW]

This rendering was shown on the KGW and KOIN websites of the tower. I don't know how accurate it is.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/PacificNW/Portland3/ParkTower2.jpg

[WonderlandPark]

^^ Very nice, that means the press has renderings and it should be in the Oregonian tomorrow. Like what I see so far.

[Dougall5505]

that looks nice.

[pdxtraveler]

Looks VERY promising.

[Dougall5505]

there is a video on it on the front page of kgw.com right now
edit: in that interview there is a person at TMT development talking about park west. and behind her is a rendering of the broadway tower! so its not dead yet

[pdxskyline]

So that's the building I saw in the window at Sienna Architects a few years ago! This is going to look AWESOME! I wonder why they made a model of it and its surrounding blocks, and displayed it? Apparently, this has been in the works for a few years, and they've done a good job about keeping it under wraps.

I can't wait to see more renders!!!!!!!!!!!

[bvpcvm]

ok, well, since our architecture student friends "don't have" sketch-up/google earth, i figured it wouldn't hurt to learn it. this is a first attempt. pretty hard to figure out what's going on with some of the surfaces, but i based all the proportions on the silhouette in the paper, so at least from the south it should be fairly accurate. not sure why it's so jaggy, but i see the other sketch-up model in some of the screen shots is fairly jaggy as well. anyway, even though it doesn't stick up very far, the height seems to be correct.

obviously, it's a rockin' friday night at the home of bvpcvm etc.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/bvpcvm/sketch-up1.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/bvpcvm/sketch-up2.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/bvpcvm/sketch-up3.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/bvpcvm/sketch-up4.jpg

[Dougall5505]

i appreciate your hard work bvpcm!
that will fill in a gap in the skyline now we just need to put some buildings in between this and big pink
if your really bored it would be awesome to have all of the downtown projects in that render. ladd, manhattan, park avenue west, boradway tower, benson tower, eliot tower, 1st and main tower, maybe even a massing on the site of the new courthouse. im sure im missing a few. just a suggestion. i would do it but im horrible at the google sketchup thing.

[bvpcvm]

i appreciate your hard work bvpcm!
that will fill in a gap in the skyline now we just need to put some buildings in between this and big pink
if your really bored it would be awesome to have all of the downtown projects in that render. ladd, manhattan, park avenue west, boradway tower, benson tower, eliot tower, 1st and main tower, maybe even a massing on the site of the new courthouse. im sure im missing a few. just a suggestion. i would do it but im horrible at the google sketchup thing.

trust me, i've thought about it, but then things like, i don't know, "life" or whatever, interfere. i figured someone else would do it sooner or later.

[pdxtex]

bye bye virginia cafe. not that ive been there recently but i do have fond memories of it. i hope it can at least get moved somewhere. as for this new building, im glad they are adding residential stuff too.

[bvpcvm]

Here's a slightly bigger/better version of that same rendering (http://www.oregonlive.com/cgi-bin/prxy/photogalleries/nph-cache.cgi/cache=3000;/olive/images/6180/a004.jpg).

[bvpcvm]

Tower a sign of renaissance?

Analysis - Tom Moyer's plans for a new high-rise may foretell big changes ahead for Portland's downtown

Saturday, January 20, 2007 DYLAN RIVERA

The Oregonian

Tom Moyer is betting hundreds of millions of his own dollars that downtown Portland is on the cusp of a historic transformation into a place wealthier, denser and more cosmopolitan than anything imagined so far.
His is a vision of a downtown Portland much different from its past. A place where high-end condo dwellers dine and shop on a light-rail line. Where office towers and retail outlets are crawling with pedestrians from across the region 24 hours a day.

"Not too many years ago, people were moving to the suburbs," Moyer said this week. "Well, now they're moving into the cities."

Indeed, baby boomers and young professionals nationwide are flocking to downtowns. And retailers are following with double-decker Home Depot and Crate & Barrel stores in places such as Manhattan and Chicago.

If Moyer is right -- and his six-year-old Fox Tower shows that he has a keen sense of downtown's potential -- he's paving the way for something Portland's never seen in its history: a high-rise downtown that serves as the undisputed cultural and business center for the state and one of North America's most sophisticated and eclectic places to work and shop. If he's wrong, downtown would end up with a few more condos and parking spaces than it needs, without the magic.

The smart money's betting that he's right.

"I've never been this excited about downtown," said Richard Singer, the visionary behind the Northwest 23rd Avenue retail scene and owner with his family of several downtown blocks. Singer views the scale and number of development projects, from an overhauled historic Macy's building to new office towers competing for space on the skyline, as reminiscent of the 1950s heyday when downtown was the place to be.

Moyer's announcement Friday of a planned 35-story office, condominium, and retail building immediately west of Nordstrom will feed a growing excitement about downtown's promise nationally.

Candace Gray, whose retail real estate firm spent seven years helping Crate & Barrel locate its first Oregon store at Bridgeport Village, said she has some higher-end restaurant chains, including Oceanaire Seafood Room, sniffing around downtown.

"These people are circling," she said, "and this area has been ripe for change."

To be sure, that change would create a new set of tensions. Relations between high income condo residents and those who live in low-income housing could become strained. And the sense of a broadly defined downtown that includes the Pearl and South Waterfront districts as an enclave for the privileged could cause a social and political rift with the rest of the city.

Tom Potter, in his state of the city address Friday, dismissed recent skeptics who questioned downtown's appeal.

"More people are coming downtown, to live," he said. "Why? Simple: More and more people want to live where the action, arts and restaurants are."

Zeroing in on West End

The so-called West End section of downtown is the focus for much of the new urban opportunities, especially in retail. The neighborhood is a cornucopia of surface parking lots waiting to be developed and historic properties ready for a tuneup. Shelters for drug addicts and the formerly homeless are over here; the construction on a new corporate headquarters over there.

"The mixture of the new and the old creates an exceedingly rich environment," said Mark Edlen, managing principal of Gerding/Edlen Development, which is building a half-block high-rise in the area.

The Zell Block, the site of Moyer's proposed Park Avenue West tower, is one of several full-block sites that are available for development. The Naito family is reworking The Galleria, and the Goodman family is marketing the completely vacant block to the north -- and several other half-blocks the family owns in the area.

Retail broker Gray called the Zell Block "a phenomenal location" that's "very synergistic" with neighbors Banana Republic, Mario's and Nordstrom.
"Those blocks have just been waiting for something to happen," said Gray.

Next generation of use

But in his Park Avenue West project, Moyer appears to have thought of some of the ingredients that can help a retailer overcome size constraints. He wants to link the new tower's parking garage with the one under construction to the south, already linked to the Fox Tower's garage, for a total of nearly 1,500 spaces underground.

"Park Avenue West is truly the next generation of mixed use, which is probably unique even nationally on such a small block to be mixing three distinct uses," said Jon Kellogg, a retail broker with Commercial Realty Advisors.

Moyer already plans a follow-up to Park Avenue West: a condo and office tower that would rise at the corner of Southwest Broadway and Columbia Street.

All of this change bodes well for the city's core, said Ethan Seltzer, an urban planner at Portland State University.

"Downtown is a place where we should expect things to be churning and changing," he said. "When downtowns become static is when you have cause for worry."

Laura Gunderson of The Oregonian staff contributed to this report. Dylan Rivera: 503-221-8532, dylanrivera@news.oregonian.com


©2007 The Oregonian


link to the Oregonian's pdf map (http://www.oregonlive.com/cgi-bin/prxy/accessor/nph-repository-cache.cgi/base/pdf_captions/116927435967500.pdf)

[360Rich]

From the photo section of todays Oregonlive

http://www.oregonlive.com/cgi-bin/prxy/photogalleries/nph-cache.cgi/cache=3000;/olive/images/6180/a004.jpg

edit - sorry bvpcvm, didn't see your earlier post.

[sirsimon]

Nice looking building! It is awesome that they mention the Broadway building as well - I assume it is the same one that had a rendering we all drooled over in the past. One of the coolest parts about the Park Ave West project is the rapid timeline...I wish some of the other buildings proposed around here could get "fast tracked" like this one.

Impatiently waiting... ;)

[Dougall5505]

trust me, i've thought about it, but then things like, i don't know, "life" or whatever, interfere. i figured someone else would do it sooner or later.
don't worry about it i wouldn't have time to do it either

[sirsimon]

Does anyone know if 410' is at the height limit for this location?

[alexjon]

Anyone have a portland file for google earth? :o

[alexjon]

Oh, the city does... ta

[65MAX]

Does anyone know if 410' is at the height limit for this location?

I may be mistaken, but I think that 460' is the max for that block. I know it is for the blocks immediately N and S of the Galleria. But they're already maxed out on FAR, including a transfer of the air rights above PB5, and bonus FAR for amenities.

[sirsimon]

^ Gotcha. :)

[bob1954]

Nice looking building! To bad it was'nt 610' instead of 410'! Will someone in Portland ever build a building or two over 600'!

[mcbaby]

so are they going to tear down the galleria parking garage next?

[MarkDaMan]

New Moyer tower’s design is ‘simple, elegant’
by Alison Ryan
01/23/2007


First Fox Tower. Then the underground parking garage at Park Block 5. With the announcement of Park Avenue West, set to rise at neighboring Park Block 4, comes a third downtown core addition to the city’s built environment by TVA Architects Inc. and developer Tom Moyer.

The 35-story tower being developed by Moyer’s TMT Development Co. will mix retail – double-height space on the lowest floors – with office space and condominiums. And that mix, said Robert Thompson, design principal at TVA, informed a design that nods to the unique purpose of each use.

“The goal was looking at how you take multiple uses, each having a different function, and finding ways to stitch together structurally a composition where they all tie together,” he said.

Tying what will be inside the building to what – eventually – will be outside was a goal as well. TVA is part of the team working on South Park Block 5, the urban green space that will ultimately top the also TVA-designed underground parking garage.

“We wanted the tower itself, in a subtle way, to respond to a number of the design features in the park,” Thompson said, “primarily a significant water feature we’re proposing.”

The link is made primarily on the park-facing south façade, where two canted surfaces will lock over each other in a flared, sculptural element. Practically, said Monty Hill, a TVA associate, the element creates additional corners for maximum office and condominium views. But it also, he said, adds another exterior dynamic.

“You get the sense of some kinetic energy,” he said, “with the two pieces kind of wrapped around one another.”

Distinctive design, said Vanessa Sturgeon, TMT president, was the idea.

“The design is meant to create a landmark in downtown Portland,” she said, “and add something significant and different to the skyline.”

Height will factor, too. The 410-foot tower will be one of the city’s tallest, and the design – especially the south side canting – emphasizes that, Thompson said.

“That element acts as a piece which accentuates the verticality of the overall tower,” he said.

The “simple, elegant, sophisticated” tower, Thompson said, will also mark a western expansion of downtown retail. The district “really moves in an east-west direction, from the river or Pioneer Place, through Pioneer Square and the Nordstrom block,” he said. “With the continuation of the development in the West End, this is the logical step.”

The tower, expected to begin construction in fall 2007, is anticipated to include about 280,000 square feet of office space, three floors of retail, 85 housing units and 350 underground parking spots.

Design, Hill said, has its own role in tenant attraction.

“The sculptural quality will help give it a unique identity,” Hill said. “That translates to marketability for the project.”

The team has been working with the city on preparing for pre-application, Thompson said, and hopes to take the project before the Portland Design Commission within the next 60 days.

TVA is also investigating design and planning options for another potential TMT tower, tentatively called Broadway Tower, at the corner of Southwest Broadway and Columbia Street.

Sturgeon said that TMT, whose longstanding relationship with TVA Architects also includes the firm’s design of the company’s Fox Tower, is pleased with both the design and its potential impact on downtown.

“We believe in Portland, and we believe in downtown Portland especially,” she said. “We always want to do what’s right in the way of design.”

http://www.djc-or.com/viewStory.cfm?recid=28761&userID=1

[robbobpdx]

VERY cool design, and on a skinny block too. Thanks to Mr. Moyer for upping the notch on downtown buildings. I sure hope he builds the Broadway Tower condos on Broadway and Columbia as planned. In the meantime, this is a terrific design, and terrific multi-use. :worship:

[65MAX]

so are they going to tear down the galleria parking garage next?

I don't know if it's next, but it's definitely on the boards. I believe Gerding Edlen has the rights to redevelop that block, and it could possibly be our next tallest, if GE can convince the city to up the height limit and allow FAR bonuses. A few years ago, I would've said that wasn't possible, but thankfully today, there seems to be a trend towards increasing heights (while still preserving public view corridors). That's vital to maximizing density in the core and slowing sprawl at the edges.

GE has a lot of credibility and political good will built up. They should have the city on their side.

[PacificNW]

^We can only hope..

[pdxman]

:previous: i doubt if building all of these new condos will slow down sprawl at the edges-it might a little. The unfortunate bit is that most people can't afford to live downtown, pearl, nw because of the prices. There needs to be more affordable housing. Plus, this is america and most people will tend to want to live in the burbs because they have families and the schools and such are generally better out there than in the city. Its unfortunate that these condos are so damn expensive...that said i'm very much in favor of seeing a new tallest, and more towers being built. I like to see development but it sometimes bothers me to see average families being priced out of the market

[65MAX]

True, it won't slow the sprawl much, but 10,000 high-end condos in the core means fewer McMansions in Stafford. And unfortunately, I don't think we can build our way into a solution for affordable housing when so many people are making less than $10/hr.

The real check on sprawl will come from increased densities (i.e. mega multi-family housing complexes) along transit corridors in our existing suburbs. That's where most of our future workforce will be living. All the more reason for a more comprehensive high-capacity transit network here, to every corner of the metro area.

Oops, sorry. Back on topic..... yes, we need more towers like this Downtown. :tup:

[Urbanpdx]

Actually, most households do not have kids. The only major demographic that is NOT growing is the nuclear (nukuler if you are Bush) family. This is one of the reasons that condos are so hot.

I hate the word "affordable". Does it mean that regular people can afford it (like a $200,000 home) or does it mean that it is free or close to free for people who don't earn much and paid for by those who earn a little more?

[Drmyeyes]

Yeah, "affordable". I'm still coming to an understanding of what this means, but basically, I believe "affordable" in terms of housing, is based on median family income for a given area. In other words, average family income. Obviously, if an area has a substantial percentage of very high income earners, that raises the average to a height absurdly greater than that of minimum wage earners. Can't remember the last figure for median family income that I read, but it seemed ridiculous....doesn't sound right when I think about it, but $50-$60 thousand. Could be less. I'll try do a search later.

So anyway, you can figure out what that means. Nobody with a $20,000/yr job with a family to support is going to be able to afford much "affordable" housing. But the developers keep putting up their high priced crap based on the affordable housing figure anyway, further stratifying the society and making the best parts of the city ever more exclusively available to relatively wealthy people.

And just to give urbanpdx his due, his statement "Actually, most households do not have kids.", is probably roughly true. I seem to recall reading a blueoregon person saying some time back that 20% of Portland households have school age kids. Haven't confirmed this though.

[mcbaby]

i believe that's correct.

[urbanlife]

ooooh, I can't WAIT to see the full rendering! Thanks for the info...

Question, at 410' but up 5 blocks from the Wells and US Bancorp, and even more from the KOIN, will this tower rise higher than those towers, elevation wise? I can imagine this looking like a new tallest from the eastbank because the Fox certainly looks taller than it is.

Urbanlife, great architecture? The Zell Block has always looked a bit shabby to me and doesn't connect with the street well at all, IMO. It was either gonna become a park or tower eventually...I'd rather have the tower.

sorry for being like late as hell on a reply to this. Yeah been stupid busy.

great architecture, not so much, but those blocks are very historically linked to our past and our old heart of town. With that said, this is the one block I am willing to lose the buildings on in hopes of reuse of the other historical buildings along those two streets. Although I have always enjoyed the Zell building for some reason.

[Urbanpdx]

Yeah, "affordable". I'm still coming to an understanding of what this means, but basically, I believe "affordable" in terms of housing, is based on median family income for a given area. In other words, average family income. Obviously, if an area has a substantial percentage of very high income earners, that raises the average to a height absurdly greater than that of minimum wage earners. Can't remember the last figure for median family income that I read, but it seemed ridiculous....doesn't sound right when I think about it, but $50-$60 thousand. Could be less. I'll try do a search later.

So anyway, you can figure out what that means. Nobody with a $20,000/yr job with a family to support is going to be able to afford much "affordable" housing. But the developers keep putting up their high priced crap based on the affordable housing figure anyway, further stratifying the society and making the best parts of the city ever more exclusively available to relatively wealthy people.

And just to give urbanpdx his due, his statement "Actually, most households do not have kids.", is probably roughly true. I seem to recall reading a blueoregon person saying some time back that 20% of Portland households have school age kids. Haven't confirmed this though.


The problem is lately "affordable" is synonymous with "subsidized".   If a developer want to do houses or condos that median income families can afford and they call them "affordable" neighbors fight them and buyers shy away because everyone envisions the "projects".  Usually "affordable housing" is HUD or some other govt. program where people pay $100 per month.

[zilfondel]

Kind of ironic, considering that every other housing development in Portland is called "luxury" even if its a cheap starter home @ $180,000.

[Urbanpdx]

True true!

Also, even the cheapest low end tract house advertises "quality" and if it is a real ugly box with a roof it is "stylish".

[alexjon]

They should shift the lower classes out to Tigard or Vancouver

[pdxtex]

^^ yes, and send all migrant workers back to mexico.....i hope you were being sarcastic......

[BrG]

Yeah, "affordable". I'm still coming to an understanding of what this means, but basically, I believe "affordable" in terms of housing, is based on median family income for a given area. In other words, average family income. Obviously, if an area has a substantial percentage of very high income earners, that raises the average to a height absurdly greater than that of minimum wage earners. Can't remember the last figure for median family income that I read, but it seemed ridiculous....doesn't sound right when I think about it, but $50-$60 thousand. Could be less. I'll try do a search later.

So anyway, you can figure out what that means. Nobody with a $20,000/yr job with a family to support is going to be able to afford much "affordable" housing. But the developers keep putting up their high priced crap based on the affordable housing figure anyway, further stratifying the society and making the best parts of the city ever more exclusively available to relatively wealthy people.

And just to give urbanpdx his due, his statement "Actually, most households do not have kids.", is probably roughly true. I seem to recall reading a blueoregon person saying some time back that 20% of Portland households have school age kids. Haven't confirmed this though.

Affordable = Subsidized.

Anything market rate is reflective of the cost of construction, which has skyrocketed. That includes the cost of land, which is even more expensive to aquire. Plus, when you put together your proforma and put it in front of an institutional lender, asking to borrow 100 million dollars to build your project, you better show them that your project can cenerate a heatlhy bottom line, or the lender will laugh you out of the room.

It's actually very difficult to do any affordable project in the city these days. And without subsidies, damn near impossible. Just because the project is "affordable, doesn't make it any less expensive to build. The luxury part is really just finishes, and to a lesser extent the square footage per unit. The rest is the same on any building. You still need EVERYTHING else.

It's frustrating. When one gets completed successfully, it really is an accomplishement. Sitka being the most recent.

[BrG]

double post

[Drmyeyes]

BrG, thanks for that very clear explanation. I think I'm finally starting to get what the phrases market rate and affordable housing mean.

I might just add to the following: "Just because the project is "affordable", doesn't make it any less expensive to build." ...that it would seem as though "affordable" also doesn't neccessarily make housing from such projects less expensive to buy for people that need housing. This explanation you've offered would suggest that "affordable" housing refers to various subsidized housing that might be priced for a wide range of income levels but not limited to low income levels. Middle income levels too.

So perhaps that reflexive response on the part of some people to the idea that "affordable" housing definitively signals the arrival of unsavory low income residents to nice neighborhoods would be misplaced.

[BrG]

I should clarify that "affordable housing" if not an offical term for subsidized housing.

It it typically unfortunately only financially feasible with public subsidies, however.

Shoot. There are plenty of market rate projects that are only feasible with development tax incentives/ abatements and other subsidies.

[BrG]

So perhaps that reflexive response on the part of some people to the idea that "affordable" housing definitively signals the arrival of unsavory low income residents to nice neighborhoods would be misplaced.

That is correct.

There are a number of tiers for subsidized housing. From Section 8 (heavily subsidized) to Section 42 (middle income), to projects that sell at market rate, but have 10 year property tax abatements for buyers, to FHA loans and more. Lots of levels for lots of buyers. But, clearly, there is a gulf beween the luxury housing and useful workforce housing available at market rate.

Bottom to top, many larger projects were generated from catylsts like PDC land deals on brownfeild redevelopments, to SOWA (infrastructure costs like streets/ sewer/ etc), and they still are expensive.

It sucks, but until the cost of raw materials like steel, concrete and glass come down, the cost of construction will not come down. Therefore the sales prices will only come down to a certain point based on the market.

Condo projects I design every day, are most often projects I likely wouldn't (or couldn't) purchase a unit, because they are too expensive.

Some are even too expensive to build now, as the real estate market cannot support the prices needed to make them pencil.

This new Moyer project looks typically "Bob Thompson-esqe", and while very attractive (as a mix of office and condos), it will be a difficult project to build as concieved, and still sell to buyers at something other than astronomical pricepoints.

[alexjon]

^^ yes, and send all migrant workers back to mexico.....i hope you were being sarcastic......

Why would I joke about something so meaningful?

Look at all these impassioned people, they have spoken... poor people drive down EVERYONE's standard of living.

[Dougall5505]

Moyer's last beautey
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l177/dougall5505/DSC_0017-2.jpg?t=1170029845

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l177/dougall5505/DSC_0019-3.jpg?t=1170029872

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l177/dougall5505/DSC_0126-1.jpg?t=1170029903
the buildings to be replaced
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l177/dougall5505/DSC_0128-1.jpg?t=1170029914

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l177/dougall5505/DSC_0130-1.jpg?t=1170029943

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l177/dougall5505/DSC_0140-1.jpg?t=1170029962

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l177/dougall5505/DSC_0142-1.jpg?t=1170029969

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l177/dougall5505/DSC_0150-1.jpg?t=1170029983

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l177/dougall5505/DSC_0152-1.jpg?t=1170030009

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l177/dougall5505/DSC_0154-1.jpg?t=1170030040
and i liked this one it has so many different types of architecture plus american spirit!
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l177/dougall5505/DSC_0149-1.jpg?t=1170030061

[Urbanpdx]

Affordable = Subsidized.

Anything market rate is reflective of the cost of construction, which has skyrocketed. That includes the cost of land, which is even more expensive to aquire. Plus, when you put together your proforma and put it in front of an institutional lender, asking to borrow 100 million dollars to build your project, you better show them that your project can cenerate a heatlhy bottom line, or the lender will laugh you out of the room.

It's actually very difficult to do any affordable project in the city these days. And without subsidies, damn near impossible. Just because the project is "affordable, doesn't make it any less expensive to build. The luxury part is really just finishes, and to a lesser extent the square footage per unit. The rest is the same on any building. You still need EVERYTHING else.

It's frustrating. When one gets completed successfully, it really is an accomplishement. Sitka being the most recent.

I believe Sitka is subsidized.

How about:
Arbor Crossing in Quatama http://www.oregonlive.com/realestate/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/homes_real_estate/115774712629530.xml&coll=7
$141 per sq ft sales price

Matthew Frank in St. Johns http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/rfs/267135094.html
$178 per sq ft sales price

Sequoia Village in Clackamas http://www.seqcusthomes.com/sequoiavillage.html
$153 per sq ft sales price

None of those projects have subsidies.

When you can buy a 3 br/ 2.5 bath 1650 sq ft condo for $240,000 or a one bedroom for under $130,000 you have to say that is affordable. Affordable is possible, just not when you go over 3 floors.

[65MAX]

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l177/dougall5505/DSC_0142-1.jpg?t=1170029969

Great pics Dougall (as usual).

This one shows Park Block 4 (the Park Avenue West site). Not really anything worth preserving IMO. I'm all for saving historic buildings, but in this case, a 410' tower will be a much better use of this site.

[BrG]

I believe Sitka is subsidized.

Yes, it is. :) The developer went through many iterations of the project to see it realized. It was extremely challenging, financially...as is all affordable housing in the city. The point I was making earlier, was that it was completed succesfully, in an urban setting. :cheers:


How about:
Arbor Crossing in Quatama http://www.oregonlive.com/realestate/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/homes_real_estate/115774712629530.xml&coll=7
$141 per sq ft sales price

Matthew Frank in St. Johns http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/rfs/267135094.html
$178 per sq ft sales price

Sequoia Village in Clackamas http://www.seqcusthomes.com/sequoiavillage.html
$153 per sq ft sales price

None of those projects have subsidies.

...and none are in the city of Portland. It's much easier to build affordable housing on the outsikrts of the metro area. For a myriad of reasons.


When you can buy a 3 br/ 2.5 bath 1650 sq ft condo for $240,000 or a one bedroom for under $130,000 you have to say that is affordable. Affordable is possible, just not when you go over 3 floors.

Or, when you build to the minimum zoning code in the heart of Portland. The "for sale" prices of those units don't even exceed the raw construction cost of current condos, in the city.

[Urbanpdx]

Yes, it is. :) The developer went through many iterations of the project to see it realized. It was extremely challenging, financially...as is all affordable housing in the city. The point I was making earlier, was that it was completed succesfully, in an urban setting. :cheers:



...and none are in the city of Portland. It's much easier to build affordable housing on the outsikrts of the metro area. For a myriad of reasons.



Or, when you build to the minimum zoning code in the heart of Portland. The "for sale" prices of those units don't even exceed the raw construction cost of current condos, in the city.

St. Johns is in the city of Portland. Why couldn't any of those projects (or something very similar) be built anywhere in the city? BrG, Which minimum zoning code(s) are you refering to?

[Urbanpdx]

BrG, thanks for that very clear explanation. I think I'm finally starting to get what the phrases market rate and affordable housing mean.

I might just add to the following: "Just because the project is "affordable", doesn't make it any less expensive to build." ...that it would seem as though "affordable" also doesn't neccessarily make housing from such projects less expensive to buy for people that need housing. This explanation you've offered would suggest that "affordable" housing refers to various subsidized housing that might be priced for a wide range of income levels but not limited to low income levels. Middle income levels too.

So perhaps that reflexive response on the part of some people to the idea that "affordable" housing definitively signals the arrival of unsavory low income residents to nice neighborhoods would be misplaced.

Since it is expensive to build with or without subsidy, why not eliminate the building of "affordable" (subsidized) housing and use vouchers exclusively. Again, we do it with food stamps. No one suggests that government get in the grocery store business but everyone seems to want it in the real estate development business. With rent vouchers people could make the choice of where to live based on what is best for them and developers could build where and how people want units. I would imagine that people in the demographic that gets heavily subsidized housing live where the subsidies are rather than close to work, school, church, family, etc. They might also take whatever floor plan is available instead of what works best.

[bvpcvm]

Since it is expensive to build with or without subsidy, why not eliminate the building of "affordable" (subsidized) housing and use vouchers exclusively. Again, we do it with food stamps. No one suggests that government get in the grocery store business but everyone seems to want it in the real estate development business. With rent vouchers people could make the choice of where to live based on what is best for them and developers could build where and how people want units. I would imagine that people in the demographic that gets heavily subsidized housing live where the subsidies are rather than close to work, school, church, family, etc. They might also take whatever floor plan is available instead of what works best.

As far as I understand, that's pretty much what Section 8 is.

[BrG]

Since it is expensive to build with or without subsidy, why not eliminate the building of "affordable" (subsidized) housing and use vouchers exclusively. Again, we do it with food stamps. No one suggests that government get in the grocery store business but everyone seems to want it in the real estate development business. With rent vouchers people could make the choice of where to live based on what is best for them and developers could build where and how people want units. I would imagine that people in the demographic that gets heavily subsidized housing live where the subsidies are rather than close to work, school, church, family, etc. They might also take whatever floor plan is available instead of what works best.

Interesting thoughts. The challenge to go in that direction would be immense.

I'm not arguing for or against that idea, BTW.

Any city, by nature, is a real estate management organization, in addition to all it's other operational duties (defender of the public welfare and protector of the public heath).

PDC orchestrates and puts money into a land deal, and a tax base increasing project comes of it. It typically spurs other unsubsidized growth as well, and the cycle of economic growth continues.

Described at it's simplest, they make money with that investment, essentially so they can do it again.

With paying for "rental rations", it seems that they would give the control of that development away. The city PTB very much wants a say in what happens within its borders.

Sorry for taking this too off topic. Mods- feel free to spilt this thread out. :)

[BrG]

St. Johns is in the city of Portland. Why couldn't any of those projects (or something very similar) be built anywhere in the city? BrG, Which minimum zoning code(s) are you refering to?

Duh, you're right... brainfart. :koko: Sorry.

I was thinking near or within the CCPD (Central city plan district). Land costs are just so much.

Re the zoning: Nothing specific. That was a poorly worded comment I made. Zoning codes typically have min and max density/ parking/ housing/ max setbacks/ req's. Obviously dependent on the site, they vary dramatically. Often they are quite demanding. Certianly, the building use that is zoned dictates the occupancy type (retail/ housing/ office), which dictates the construction type (wood/ steel/ concrete). etc. A 3 story project in downtown Portland is often completely infeasible, based on land costs, use requirements, etc. It's not always the case, but quite often.

But... in any project I have been a part of designing, in the city, the process of satisfying some zoning as well as creating an economically viable project is challenging. It can take years...(and has) depending on the project. that part of the job wasn't covered in architecture school, I can certianly say that! :haha:

[Drmyeyes]

I think what makes this diversion relevant to Moyer's planned tower and development in downtown in general, is that it touches on whether affordable housing built here should be affordable to the income levels that would be relying on rental vouchers if they did exist, or if that is what section 8 accomplishes. I think there should be a certain percentage of decent, affordable housing units available within walking distance or a short mass transit ride from downtown, even downtown itself for persons working a full time minimum wage job.

I couldn't say about section 8 or rental vouchers because I don't know about them. It would be pretty tricky and not neccessarily helpful to indirectly suggest that through subsidized housing, affordable housing could be subject to the same kind of problems affecting the food stamp program. There's nothing particularly wrong with being a solid citizen holding down a min wage job. Efforts should be made to motivate and reward more people to do so by making decent affordable housing available accordingly. Obviously, whatever the range income level persons living near to each other may be, a fundamental requiste for success for the neighborhood would be to maintain a high quality standard of living for everyone.