[Trae]

http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4490194.html

NHL legend Mario Lemieux is expected to lead a delegation from the Pittsburgh Penguins to visit Houston and the Toyota Center later this week, according to an individual expected to be part of the talks.

Lemieux, the Penguins owner and Hall of Famer, said in December that the franchise, whose lease expires after this season, would "explore relocation offers in cities outside Pennsylvania."

[NBTX11]

I would like to see an NHL franchise in SA/Austin if we can't get a nfl or mlb. Austin is one of the biggest cities in the country without 1 pro team (not arena league). Why isn't Austin going after a team.

[austintilIdie]

With the AlamoDome and the SBC center, San Antonio has set itself up for hockey/football expansion more than Austin has. The Austin IceBats were relegated to a rodeo barnhouse/exposition center 20 minutes east of town and this season they're at Chapparal Ice, not a real arena by any decent standard. The Austin Wrangler's share the UT-owned Frank Erwin Center.

Austin needs to cultivate teams like the hockey IceBats and arena football Wranglers and build a first class arena in the downtown area. Location. Location. Location. Heck there's still room on Auditorium Shores to build a beautiful baseball stadium someday.

[Trae]

Well, San Antonio would have no chance at getting a NHL team with Houston at the door (I won't count Austin if Austin could not compete with San Antonio's arenas). Houston has the Toyota Center, corporate sponshorship, and 5.4 million people, also.

[METALMiKE]

Yeah, IMO SA doesn't care much for hockey, we don't pack the house with the Rampage, why the NHL?

[TexasBoi]

I think the same could be said for Houston, Metal. I have my doubts that the NHL can succeed there. If it happens, prove me wrong Houston.

[Trae]

I think the same could be said for Houston, Metal. I have my doubts that the NHL can succeed there. If it happens, prove me wrong Houston.

Have you been to an Aeros game?

[LouisianaRush]

I have been to several games and 60% of the seats were empty. Maybe a NHL team can do better in attendence than the Aeros.

[KevinFromTexas]

Austin needs to cultivate teams like the hockey IceBats and arena football Wranglers and build a first class arena in the downtown area. Location. Location. Location. Heck there's still room on Auditorium Shores to build a beautiful baseball stadium someday.

Oh, hell no.

Austin is a different city from other "sports cities". There are people here who do like sports of course, duh, but Austin is not a sports town. Sheesh, I didn't even watch the Superbowl lastyear and I couldn't tell you the date of it this year either. Austin does ok without the giant souless sports domes and arenas.

And don't even go there about building a sports arena at Auditorium Shores. *Shudders* No offense, but I can't believe someone with a handle like "austintilIdie" would even suggest that. :no:

[LouisianaCharm]

i dont think that would be a good move for hockey to move to houston. i think there would be arena issues with ownership, and attendance issues because houston is just no hockey hotbed. i honestly think that dallas is the only city in the state that can support one right now, mostly because they have an established franchise. i think houston missed its chance of getting in on the whole southern relocation/expansion of the nhl. that was their best chance.

[texastarkus]

hmmm....the name Houston Penguins just doesn't sound right.
How about the Houston Grackles...

[keymike]

I think the Penguins should move to Raleigh, NC. Then Raleigh’s team, the Hurricanes, should move to Houston. Houston Hurricanes sounds cool.

[TexasStar]

Man, this would be great! An in-state rivalry between the Stars and Penguins would be a huge boost for hockey in Texas! (of course, the Penguins would have to be moved to the NHL Western Conference.)

Anyone who watched the NHL All-Star Game from Dallas last night can see how good this game can be. (Especially if they boost the scoring.)

[sammyk]

I think it would do good because it is the Penguins. Moving any other team may not be as successful. The Penguins have some of the greatest young talent out there and that should be incentive enough to fill seats and lead the team to championships which would keep interest in the team like it did in Dallas after they won the Cup.

[JAM]

I've met enough people from PA around the Houston metro. There might be enough from PA that would go to the games. I personally never went to an Aero's game, but that was because they were minor league. I definitely would have made a major league game or two. Hopefully someone in Texas will grab 'em.

[Trae]

Man, this would be great! An in-state rivalry between the Stars and Penguins would be a huge boost for hockey in Texas! (of course, the Penguins would have to be moved to the NHL Western Conference.)

Anyone who watched the NHL All-Star Game from Dallas last night can see how good this game can be. (Especially if they boost the scoring.)

I couldn't find the damn versus channel. The NHL should have payed ESPN more money or at least Fox Sports.

[drycreek]

And don't even go there about building a sports arena at Auditorium Shores. *Shudders* No offense, but I can't believe someone with a handle like "austintilIdie" would even suggest that.

No joke. Well said.

Who cares if Austin ever has a pro team? Austin don't need dat kind of stuff to be cool.

[sammyk]

I couldn't find the damn versus channel. The NHL should have payed ESPN more money or at least Fox Sports.

It's not the NHL paying. ESPN didn't want to pay so the NHL had to look elsewhere for a national contract. Fox Sports is regional. You should be able to find which channel Verses is on from their website, verses.com. They are supposd to be repeating the game tonite...like right now.

[BSofA04]

Houston is in the same position Dallas was in 13 years ago....people said that hockey wouldn't work in Texas and BOY were they wrong. Houston has great attendance for one of the worst AHL teams. Bringing in the NHL would definantly increase attendance/fan awareness as well as promote the sport around the Bayou City. They currently have the second most high school hockey teams in Texas (next to the metroplex), a viable luxurious arena (17,800 seats in the hockey configurated Toyota Center), and MULTIPLE owners willing to put some $$$$$$ up. Les Alexander, Bob McNair and Watson come to the top of my mind, with the latter two actually attempting to buy the Edmonton FRIEKEN Oilers several years ago. If memory serves me correctly, the Oilers were sold at the last second to some locals to keep the team in Canada....but they continue to teeter-totter financially to this day and are starting to demand a new arena. If Lemieux's Pens don't make it to Houston, look out for the second coming of the Houston Oilers!!!!! BTW, Nashville is experiencing some attendance issues, so it would be some sweet Karma to get the Preds to come to Houston. The NHL has always looked at Houston the same way the NFL looks at LA, a big market that needs to be a part of the league. Either way, Houston will have a team in the next ten years....bet your ass on it.

BTW, NHL in SA would be a joke. To put this to rest, they would require a new arena since the AT&T Center was built to accomidate hockey, but not at the level of the NHL. The west end of the arena (the fan fiesta side) has to pull back the first 25-30 rows to properly configure the arena for the hockey boards, thus decreasing the max capacity to only 13,000 (hockey rinks are MUCH bigger than basketball courts). Unless 500,000 citizens were demanding another arena for hockey, this ain't gonna happen. Houston knew they had a great chance to get an NHL team so they built their arena much like Dallas's AAC, with minimal seat retractions and an oversized floor level. SA needs to continue looking for possibilities in the NFL and dump the NHL idea.

[BSofA04]

This is what I'm talking about.....
Houston
http://aeros.com.ismmedia.com/ISM3/thumbcache/48c21f7713fe75f2e6f60851afcedebc.500.jpg
San Antonio (sorry, the boards are reflective)
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h110/bsofa04/DSC01754.jpg
Miss Aeros for your viewing pleasure.....
http://aeros.com.ismmedia.com/ISM3/thumbcache/ac9ac6974270d1abe028ce9b5c2c70fd.500.jpg
http://aeros.com.ismmedia.com/ISM3/thumbcache/eb9fbe23113a797535e90ba88fc65673.500.jpg
http://aeros.com.ismmedia.com/ISM3/thumbcache/237b34d159fab46bd3fa39eff300b293.500.jpg
http://aeros.com.ismmedia.com/ISM3/thumbcache/df54e9f7a94e8f90826c9354581226c0.500.jpg
http://aeros.com.ismmedia.com/ISM3/thumbcache/d6f555e060c65a4d7ac9d38dc95888b3.500.jpg

[TexasStar]

I'm going to the Dallas Stars - Pittsburgh Penguins game tonight at the AAC.
Fingers-crossed this becomes a cross-state rivalry!

[Diddle E Squat]

Yes, nothing proves "This market can support pro hockey" more than showing pics of a bunch of plastic-boobed strippers in bikini's.


That said, Houston can easily support an NHL team, but the Penguins belong in Pittsburgh. The Browns belong in Cleveland, the Colts in Baltimore, the Cardinals in St. Louis (but Chicago never needed 2 teams!) and the Jazz in New Orleans. Stealing a well-supported team and long-established team that is so identified with a city is a weasel move, even if there is precedent.

[sammyk]

It's not stealing if the team itself is going around soliciting itself. The city of Pittsburgh screwed up. They gave the Steelers and Pirates (do the Pirates even sell out?) new facilities but not the Penguins, THEN, when a casino company said it would build them an arena for free if they got their slots license the city chose someone else who was not making such an offer. It is a shame the fans will lose their team but the city did it to themselves.

[Schertz1]

Kansas City seems to think the Penguins will move to KC. Take a look at their forum.

[sammyk]

With good reason, they've pretty much been the frontrunner and will have a brand new arena ready.

[BSofA04]

Yes, nothing proves "This market can support pro hockey" more than showing pics of a bunch of plastic-boobed strippers in bikini's.


That said, Houston can easily support an NHL team, but the Penguins belong in Pittsburgh. The Browns belong in Cleveland, the Colts in Baltimore, the Cardinals in St. Louis (but Chicago never needed 2 teams!) and the Jazz in New Orleans. Stealing a well-supported team and long-established team that is so identified with a city is a weasel move, even if there is precedent.

Haha...I like how you love my post....EVERYTHING'S BIGGER IN TEXAS! Someone already made this point earlier, but Pittsburgh is running the Pens out of town. Does the city deserve to keep the Pens...absolutly....has Pittsburgh stepped up to the plate.....not one bit. Lemuiex is even quoted as being disappoineted with the city in his bid to secure a viable arena. IF THE PITTSBURGH FRIEKEN PENGUINS ARE LOOKING AT OTHER CITIES....THE CITY OF PITTSBURGH MUST HAVE F$CKED UP REALLY BAD! You don't move the Pens out of an NHL hotbed unless the citizens and local government have given you the finger one too many times. (Would you want to play in that crap-hole for an arena???? You know Crosby doesn't.) I know you don't agree with them relocating, but this seems more and more inevitable as the years go by without anything on the table in Pittsburgh.

[sammyk]

Another thing is that Lemieux has done everything he can to keep the Pens in Pittsburgh and he never in the past played the "Build me an arena or I'm moving" card and threaten the city. Only now, after all has been tried, he's done that.

[PhillyRising]

^Uh...the Penguins have been given a good offer from the state and local governments. The Penguin ownership was upset because it makes them actually have to chip in a small amount to the construction of an arena in Pittsburgh. How awful to be asked to help pay for something that you are going to make a ton of money from....


The Penguins will prosper in the long run by staying in Pittsburgh....not some other city where hockey is just a curiosity.

[Mopacs]

I would absolutely hate to see the Penguins leave Pittsburgh. I'm sure the faults go both ways, governmental and ownership. Houston will get an NHL team sooner than later. I'd much prefer a relocation of a newer and/or southern franchise (Tampa, etc), if at all.

[sammyk]

Yah, that's all good and fine but why shouldn't they get one built by the city just like the other major teams in the city did? Why deny the casino that is willing to build it without taxpayer money? OK, that last one maybe there were other circumstances.

[NBTX11]

I would absolutely hate to see the Penguins leave Pittsburgh. I'm sure the faults go both ways, governmental and ownership. Houston will get an NHL team sooner than later. I'd much prefer a relocation of a newer and/or southern franchise (Tampa, etc), if at all.


Tampa???

I lived in Tampa for 5 years, and Tampa actually supports the Lightning VERY well for a southern franchise. They play in a newer Arena, St Pete Times Forum, sell out most games, make the playoffs most years, and won the Stanley Cup 3 years ago. They have an exciting young team. The Lightning will never relocate, nor should they.

[BSofA04]

Tampa???

I lived in Tampa for 5 years, and Tampa actually supports the Lightning VERY well for a southern franchise. They play in a newer Arena, St Pete Times Forum, sell out most games, make the playoffs most years, and won the Stanley Cup 3 years ago. They have an exciting young team. The Lightning will never relocate, nor should they.

I think (hope) they were referring to Nashville, Carolina (pre-Stanley Cup attendance), Columbus and Atlanta. That would make more sense. The Lightining have been very popular in Tampa.

But, there have been funny attendances with major league clubs such as Chicago, which drew 13,000 for a Wolves game and only 12,000 for a Blackhawks game on the same day.

I say, move the Preds to Houston cause payback's a motha f^cka.:whip:

[Mopacs]

Tampa???

I lived in Tampa for 5 years, and Tampa actually supports the Lightning VERY well for a southern franchise. They play in a newer Arena, St Pete Times Forum, sell out most games, make the playoffs most years, and won the Stanley Cup 3 years ago. They have an exciting young team. The Lightning will never relocate, nor should they.

Ok, very bad example on my part... For some reason I was thinking of other franchises when Tampa came to mind (Nashville, etc.). Obviously not... the Lightning did win a Stanley Cup after all! Also entering into my thinking is the fact that many of the sunbelt franchises lack the history and tradiition of the northern and canadian franchises (Carolina, Dallas and Tampa championships notwithstanding), which is why I would not lament over relocations as much.

[LouisianaCharm]

i guess this ends this conversation......................



A state senator on the board that would oversee a new arena in Pittsburgh says a deal to keep the Penguins in the Steel City could be announced by Friday.



"I'm hearing that a deal could be made any day, which makes me suspect it's all about crossing the T's and dotting the I's," state Sen. Wayne Fontana told the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. "I don't know that there are any major hurdles left. It's all just little things."


Fontana, who sits on the Allegheny County Sports & Exposition Authority, told the newspaper that Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell has been in continuing conversations with Penguins co-owner Ron Burkle about the deal.

Earlier this week, Pittsburgh Mayor Luke Ravenstahl said he expected a deal would be announced soon. But he had no comment Wednesday on Fontana's statement, the Tribune-Review said. Allegheny County Chief Executive Dan Onorato and the Penguins also declined to comment, the newspaper reported.

"People involved directly in the negotiations are not discussing anything publicly," Dick Skrinjar, Ravenstahl's spokesman, told the Tribune-Review.


The Penguins were expected to tell officials in Kansas City, Mo., by Feb. 4 whether they would move into new Sprint Center starting next season. The Sprint Center has offered the Penguins free rent and revenue-sharing if they move to Kansas City, which briefly was home to an NHL expansion franchise in the mid-1970s. The Penguins have long sought a replacement for Mellon Arena, the oldest building in the NHL.

Talks between local and state government and the Penguins hit a snag when the team balked at sharing parking revenue and redevelopment rights for the Mellon Arena site with Casino developer Don Barden, who was awarded a state slot machine license and has pledged to help build a new arena. The Penguins had backed another casino developer, Isle of Capri, which had pledged to entirely fund a new arena.

Fontana told the Tribune-Review the two sides have found "a middle ground" over the parking revenues and development rights.


Barden has agreed to pay $7.5 million a year for 30 years toward a new arena, with the state adding $7 million a year. And Rendell has said the Penguins' contribution to the project -- originally pegged at $8.5 million in up-front funds, $2.9 million a year and forgoing $1.16 million a year in naming rights -- has been "significantly" reduced.


The Penguins have not yet sought permission from the National Hockey League to move, the Tribune-Review reported.

[Trae]

Yeah I heard that too. Oh well, maybe someone else could move...like Nashville.

[TexasBoi]

Yeah I heard that too. Oh well, maybe someone else could move...like Nashville.


not a chance in hell. they are becoming a nice hockey town. The south needs another one besides Dallas.:haha:

[BSofA04]

not a chance in hell. they are becoming a nice hockey town. The south needs another one besides Dallas.:haha:

No no, they owe us one lol

[Complex01]

He he, i just had to...

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/am4ever7/cbwinter.jpg

[METALMiKE]

This is what I'm talking about.....

San Antonio (sorry, the boards are reflective)
http://i638dc95888b3.500.jpg

That pic is misleading,those sections are unavailable for hockey.

[BSofA04]

That pic is misleading,those sections are unavailable for hockey.

Exactley, my point was that another facility would need to be built in the NHL decided to come to San Antonio because those sections are unavailable. They didn't build a NHL caliber facility like the Toyota Center, but it's a great facility for an AHL team....probably one of the best.

[sakyle04]

Exactley, my point was that another facility would need to be built in the NHL decided to come to San Antonio because those sections are unavailable. They didn't build a NHL caliber facility like the Toyota Center, but it's a great facility for an AHL team....probably one of the best.

That's completely untrue. If the ATT Center were to be inserted today as an NHL arena, it would be among the best 10. The reason that the sections are"unavailable" is because the team doesn't draw 18,000 people like the Spurs. Therefore, there is no need to open (and then staff) the upper levels of the arena. They only sell the lower level, but they could easily open the whole thing up for hockey if the need ever arose. (Of Note: The need will never arise.)

[texastarkus]

Penguins declare arena talks impasse, move closer to leaving

By ALAN ROBINSON, AP Sports Writer
March 5, 2007

PITTSBURGH (AP) -- The Penguins moved a step closer to leaving Pittsburgh, declaring on Monday an impasse in their new arena negotiations with state and local leaders and saying they will actively pursue relocation.

The breakdown in arena talks came only three days after Gov. Ed Rendell said he felt an agreement was close. It also increases the possibility the Penguins will be playing in Kansas City next season.

"We have made a single-minded effort to bring this new arena to a successful conclusion and keep the team in Pittsburgh," owners Mario Lemieux and Ron Burkle said in a letter to Rendell and local government officials. "... Our good-faith efforts have not produced a deal, however, and have only added more anxiety to what we thought at best was a risky proposition for us moving forward."

In the letter, Lemieux and Burkle put the blame for the impasse on government officials, arguing they agreed to pay $120 million over 30 years to help build a $290 million arena and cover construction cost overruns, yet still have not reached a deal.

NHL commissioner Gary Bettman became involved in the talks several weeks ago, but also has been unable to finalize an agreement.

"We can do no more," Lemieux, the longtime Penguins star, and Burkle said in the letter.

The Penguins had an agreement with Isle of Capri Casinos to build the arena at no expense to the team or taxpayers in exchange for a license to build a Pittsburgh slots casino, but a state board in December chose a competing bid.

On Jan. 4, the team, state, city and Allegheny County began negotiating an alternate arena funding plan. At the time, government officials were asking for the team to contribute about $4.1 million per year but suggested they were willing to come down.

However, the amount being sought from the team has changed little, according to the Penguins' calculations.

Kansas City has offered its nearly completed Sprint Center to the Penguins rent-free. The Penguins would also gain revenue from development projects around the arena.

However, the Penguins would be leaving one of the NHL's strongest U.S. markets for a smaller one that lost an NHL team in 1976 after only two seasons because of lack of support. The Penguins' home attendance and local TV ratings are among the strongest of the 24 United States-based franchises.

When Lemieux's group bought the team in federal bankruptcy court in 1999, the Hall of Fame player said he did so to ensure the team's existence in Pittsburgh.

The Penguins' hardball negotiating stance comes with the team contending for a playoff spot for the first time in six years. A youthful team led by NHL scoring leader Sidney Crosby and rookies Evgeni Malkin and Jordan Staal has become one of the league's prime attendance draws.

At home, the Penguins are playing to nearly 96 percent of arena capacity for the season. All of their remaining nine home games are expected to attract standing-room-only crowds.

The Penguins also have begun selling season tickets for the 2007-08 season in Pittsburgh, even though they have not agreed to play there another season.

"They're tough negotiators," Rendell said.

[Trae]

Small market to an even smaller one? Why not go to Houston, more than twice as large.

[Trae]

People said the same thing in 1999 about us getting an NFL team over Los Angeles.

[sammyk]

I have a question for the Pittsburgh people here. Was there a reason that PITG (I think that was the name) was chosen over Isle of Capris (which would have funded the entire arena)? Was it a better deal for the city? I see that Isle of Capris and the other entrant is now appealing the decision.

[texastarkus]

Penguins co-owner meets with Las Vegas mayor


By DANIEL LOVERING, Associated Press Writer
March 7, 2007

PITTSBURGH (AP) -- Penguins owner Ron Burkle traveled to Las Vegas on Wednesday to meet with the mayor and discuss the possibility of relocating the team there.

Burkle, who lives in Los Angeles, led a delegation in talks with Las Vegas Mayor Oscar B. Goodman, according to Penguins spokesman Tom McMillan.
Meanwhile, Burkle and co-owner Mario Lemieux all prepared to meet with state, county and local officials on Thursday in Philadelphia to try to resolve differences over plans for a new arena in Pittsburgh.

Elena Owens, a spokeswoman for Goodman, confirmed the meeting with Penguins officials and said, "they had a very pleasant conversation." She declined to elaborate.

The Penguins issued a letter Monday saying the team planned to actively pursue relocation. It blamed government officials for failing to reach a deal to build a new arena in Pittsburgh.

In the letter, Lemieux and Burkle said negotiations had stalled, even though the team agreed to pay $120 million over 30 years toward a new $290 million arena and to cover any cost overruns.

Gov. Ed Rendell said Wednesday he was optimistic the team would remain in Pittsburgh. A day earlier, Rendell's office said the governor has put "an exceptionally attractive offer on the table." He later said officials would ask the NHL to intervene if the team didn't accept the deal.

Officials in Kansas City have offered the Penguins free rent and half of all revenues if they agree to play in the soon-to-be-completed $262 million Sprint Center.

The Penguins' lease at 46-year-old Mellon Arena, the oldest facility in the league, expires June 30. The Penguins have repeatedly said they may move, or sell the team to a buyer who would relocate the franchise if an arena deal isn't in place by then.

[TexasStar]

...The Penguins' lease at 46-year-old Mellon Arena, the oldest facility in the league, expires June 30.

Yikes, 46 years old!!
The arena the Dallas Stars left 5 years ago is twenty years younger than that.

[BSofA04]

That's completely untrue. If the ATT Center were to be inserted today as an NHL arena, it would be among the best 10. The reason that the sections are"unavailable" is because the team doesn't draw 18,000 people like the Spurs. Therefore, there is no need to open (and then staff) the upper levels of the arena. They only sell the lower level, but they could easily open the whole thing up for hockey if the need ever arose. (Of Note: The need will never arise.)

What are you talking about? The floor level at the AT&T Center is basketball friendly, not hockey. A hockey rink is MUCH bigger than a basketball court. They have to move those seats back to accomidate for the rink size, not because of a lack of attendance. Have you been to a Rampage game? That picture is a great example for the difference between the Spurs and Rampage. I know, I have season tickets to the Spurs and attend about 10-12 Rampage games a year. Belive me bro, it ain't an NHL facility like the Toyota Center.

[sakyle04]

What are you talking about? The floor level at the AT&T Center is basketball friendly, not hockey. A hockey rink is MUCH bigger than a basketball court. They have to move those seats back to accomidate for the rink size, not because of a lack of attendance. Have you been to a Rampage game? That picture is a great example for the difference between the Spurs and Rampage. I know, I have season tickets to the Spurs and attend about 10-12 Rampage games a year. Belive me bro, it ain't an NHL facility like the Toyota Center.

I am not talking about the seats that are pushed back in front of the Armadillo Homes banner.

The reference was to the upper level if you'll read the post you quoted.

Also, I never said it was as NHL-perfect as Toyota Center, but having opened only a couple of years ago, you're crazy if you think that NHL teams with older arenas wouldn't upgrade to ATT. I said it would top 10...as in the top 1/3 of the league.

Never said it was the best or better than Houston. (Also mentioned earlier that SA would not be a good relocation market for NHL....so I'm not trying to sell SA or ATT, just defending the photo from earlier.)

[sammyk]

There are only six "old" arenas in the NHL. The others are all less than 15 years old. Of the six, two are in Canada, two are of NY teams, one is of the Detroit Red Wings and the last is the Penguins so only one is likely to move.

[BSofA04]

I am not talking about the seats that are pushed back in front of the Armadillo Homes banner.

The reference was to the upper level if you'll read the post you quoted.

Also, I never said it was as NHL-perfect as Toyota Center, but having opened only a couple of years ago, you're crazy if you think that NHL teams with older arenas wouldn't upgrade to ATT. I said it would top 10...as in the top 1/3 of the league.

Never said it was the best or better than Houston. (Also mentioned earlier that SA would not be a good relocation market for NHL....so I'm not trying to sell SA or ATT, just defending the photo from earlier.)

Well, then I misunderstood you. My bad. I tend to look over posts rather than read word for word.....sorry.

[Evergrey]

I have a question for the Pittsburgh people here. Was there a reason that PITG (I think that was the name) was chosen over Isle of Capris (which would have funded the entire arena)? Was it a better deal for the city? I see that Isle of Capris and the other entrant is now appealing the decision.

We had a long discussion on the casino process going on in the Pittsburgh Projects Thread (see sig)...

It's important to note that the city had no part in the selection of the casino operator. A "casino board" was appointed by the state who made decisions on the casino operators for Pittsburgh, Philly and other locations throughout the state. They used a number of factors, most notably who they thought would produce the most revenue for the state. They also looked at transportation infrastructure for the proposed sites, fiscal health and industry experience of the operators, employment projections, and development spinoffs. PITG was selected due to its superior location... the best transportation infrastructure and rather isolated from nearby neighborhoods. One big drawback to Isle of Capri was that their proposed casino was located in a neighborhood stricken with high rates of poverty and crime. While the promise of a new arena paid for fully by IoC creates a huge emotional response... I think the casino board made the right decision for the state of Pennsylvania and city of Pittsburgh. PITG has pledged $7.5 million a year... or 40% to the new arena if the Penguins deal holds up... in addition, PITG has pledged about $300-400 million to redevelopment of the Lower Hill District, which is where the current arena stands and where the future arena will be built... the redevelopment will be some sort of mix of residential, retail, office, etc.


The two losing casino bidders filed appeals at the 11th hour... while it seems there is little chance of the decision being overturned... this action serves as a bit of revenge for the losers... by appealing at the last minute... and the resulting months of litigation... PITG will have to wait indefinately to get the casino up and running. This also puts added uncertainty into the state's arena deal with the Penguins... which is a major reason why the Pens freaked out with that "impasse" statement a few days ago. The Pens and state and local officials just had another meeting a couple days ago that was deemed "productive" and have another meeting scheduled Wednesday. I am confident they will come to an agreement.

[Great_Hizzy]

it's all moot because it seems that if things don't work out with Pittsburgh/Pennsylvania, the Pens are going to accept what is being reported as an "insanely lucrative deal" with Kansas City. Penguins officials canceled a trip to Houston last week in lieu of this "latest deal" offered by KC officials.

[Evergrey]

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07072/769032-85.stm

Arena deal keeps Penguins in Pittsburgh
Tuesday, March 13, 2007

By Mark Belko, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette



The puck stays here.

The Pittsburgh Penguins have reached an agreement with state and local officials for construction of a new arena that keeps the team here under a 30-year lease.

The basics of the agreement were reached during a make-or-break meeting last week in Philadelphia where both sides reported that signficant progress was made and most of the remaining details were worked out over the weekend, according to sources close to the negotiations.

A formal announcement will be made later today, before the Penguins 7:30 p.m. home game against the Buffalo Sabres.

The new arena, expected to cost about $290 million, is expected to be ready for the 2009-2010 season.

The Penguins will continue to play at Mellon Arena under a short-term lease extension until the new arena is built.

Under the terms of the deal, the Pens will pay $3.8 million per year toward construction and will add another $400,000 per year for capital improvements.

A meeting had been scheduled for Wednesday here where Penguins officials were supposed to meet with Gov. Ed Rendell, Mayor Luke Ravenstahl and County Chief Executive Dan Onorato.

That meeting may only be needed to finalize the deal that officials have been seeking for months.

Chuck Ardo, the governor's spokesman, said he could not confirm there was a deal last night.

But there was growing optimism that an agreement was near after a meeting Thursday in Philadelphia that lasted more than four hours.

Neither Mario Lemieux nor Ron Burkle could be reached for comment last night. Both were expected to attend tomorrow's scheduled meeting.

That atmosphere following the meeting in Philadelphia was quite a turnaround from the climate only four days before, when Mr. Lemieux and Mr. Burkle sent a letter to the politicians declaring an impasse in the talks and saying they would aggressively explore relocation.

What followed was a trip to Las Vegas, which is pursuing professional sports teams, and a sweetened offer from Kansas City, where the $276 million Sprint Center will be ready this year. The new offer improved on a deal that included free rent and half the building revenues.

With the Penguins' future in Pittsburgh hanging in the balance, however, Thursday's session in Philadelphia apparently significantly narrowed the differences between the two sides.

Neither Mr. Onorato nor Mr. Ravenstahl were available for comment yesterday.

Even before Thursday's meeting, the two sides did not appear to be far apart.

Under the agreement, the Penguins also would pay $500,000 a year for a parking garage.

The rest of the arena funding would come from Pittsburgh casino licensee Don Barden, who would contribute $7.5 million a year and another $7.5 million annually from a gambling-financed state economic development fund.

One unresolved issue going into Thursday's meeting was how to pay the extra $20 million that was added as a contingency to a proposed arena bond issue, increasing it from $270 million to $290 million.

The Penguins and the state have agreed to split the cost of any additonal costs exceeding $290 million up to $310 million, sources said.

Even as negotiators try to hammer out a final deal, the city-county Sports & Exhibition Authority has fallen behind schedule in demolishing 11 buildings in the Fifth and Centre Avenue corridors in Uptown for the new arena.

The work probably won't start for another two weeks, said Doug Straley, authority development manager. The authority originally had hoped to begin in early February.

Despite the delay, Mr. Straley said the authority still expects to have the site cleared by Sept. 1, when construction of the arena is expected to start, with hopes of opening it in 2009.

He said demolition of the 11 buildings -- nine on Fifth Avenue and two on the Epiphany Church campus -- is expected to take four months. Empire Dismantlement Corp. of Grand Island, N.Y., received a $926,419 contract to do the work.

"This demolition can get done well within the time frame to deliver the site," he said.

In explaining the delay, Mr. Straley cited the Feb. 5 collapse of a section of flooring at the authority-owned David L. Lawrence Convention Center, saying that diverted staff time away from the arena. He also said it took longer than expected to remove asbestos from the buildings to be razed.


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(Mark Belko can be reached at mbelko@post-gazette.com or 412-263-1262. )

[PhillyRising]

My reaction to Pittsburgh retaining their team...:banana: :banana: :banana:

[sammyk]

Damn. I was hoping they'd move. I really hate the Penguins.

[Saddle Man]

Who didn't really think this was going to happen?

[KevinFromTexas]

Me! But I didn't care either way. :)