[crewer]

You know, with this whole mortgage sector mess going on, I can't believe that it will not have some affect on developments in downtown Austin. I'm wondering how many condo investors are going to find that they can't close their deals in the end. Pre-approved loans do not translate to a guaranteed closing. There have been numerous articles in the Wash. Post over the past few weeks about people who are literally finding out minutes before closing that the mortgage companies are denying their loans. It's a mess, it will be a long while before it's cleaned up, and it's having an affect on most buyers, not just those with bad credit histories.

What we are going to start seeing is a return to substantial down-payments, far fewer 100% financing options, and less flexibility in the debt to income ratio* (Post quote). I suspect that will influence the buying power in downtown.

The days of immediate gratification in real estate are ending. Some buyers may find that they'll actually have to cough up 10 to 20% for down payments on their $500,000 condos. Ain't that a bitch?

[crewer]

I totally agree to both of those comments. Imagine sitting out on your balcony with a few beers in you, although I suppose 360 folks might prefer wine over beer. ;) I'd want to feel secure on my balcony if I was a little buzzed.

No kidding! A few brewskies, and it's amazing how stupid people can be on a balcony. You know, like the, "I wonder what will happen when I drop this beer bottle from the 40th floor?" Sadly to say, it's pretty inevitable that someone will be killed at some point. Someone will get drunk and sit on the balcony ledge and will topple over.

Tall buildings and drunkenness are not a good mix. A buddy of mine in Toronto was telling me of a recent happy-hour in an office tower in downtown Toronto. Young stockbrokers were drunk and thinking it would be fun(?) to body-slam into the big floor to ceiling office windows on the 67th floor. One dude hit the window so hard that it popped out, along with him. It's amazing how creative drunk people can get at finding ways to kill themselves.

[KevinFromTexas]

^ There was a guy that fell off the 4th or 5th floor balcony of one of the University Towers in West Campus overnight/early one morning. He died of course. Supposedly he was in a fraternity, and he and his frat buddies had been drinking. Somehow he fell off the balcony and was found dead next to building by a pedestrian.

[Jdawgboy]

I was wondering if anybody knows when they will put up the crane at the Legacy Site???

[priller]

They're building something on the W Hotel lot. I suppose it's not part of the hotel. ;)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1185/1165708947_72ed03088e_o.jpg

[crewer]

They're building something on the W Hotel lot. I suppose it's not part of the hotel. ;)

Not part of the hotel. I heard it was the sales office, or at least part of it is.

[Saddle Man]

Got it.... that is an interesting part that I missed. From everything in their statement and the article in the paper it looks as though While Lodging does need their permission. Do you know any source that can confirm one way or another?

I don't know of a source either way. Sorry.

[austin242]

I don't know what is going on at w site but in dallas when they started building they demolished a historical building because they started to early. they could be starting to early again.

By the way i have been looking at this thread for a while and just now decided to say something and make it official.

[priller]

I took this shot of one corner of the AMLI on 2nd building yesterday. I was under the impression that the dark exterior portion of the building was going to be much darker that this.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1138/1166564754_869c975203_o.jpg

[crewer]

I took this shot of one corner of the AMLI on 2nd building yesterday. I was under the impression that the dark exterior portion of the building was going to be much darker that this.

Oh, no. It looks like they're using the same type of panels used on the convention center, which I always thought looked mobile home foundation skirting.

I think going darker would have given a better contrast, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[MichaelB]

Oh, no. It looks like they're using the same type of panels used on the convention center, which I always thought looked mobile home foundation skirting.

I think going darker would have given a better contrast, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Like the tiles..... They are a lite gold..... metalic. THere was a bit darker one they tested I did like a bit better.... but,eh, I still think it is going to make a handsome building.

[andrew.A..T..X]

No kidding! A few brewskies, and it's amazing how stupid people can be on a balcony.

Yes, it will take a few people to fall off then they might have to change them. So the deck is has no railing or anything? Thats crazy

[Northcrossed]

Yes, it will take a few people to fall off then they might have to change them. So the deck is has no railing or anything? Thats crazySince the Austin building code won't allow you to build a deck in your backyard higher than 36 inches without a railing, I doubt they'd let you have a 36th floor balcony with no railing.

[crewer]

Yes, it will take a few people to fall off then they might have to change them. So the deck is has no railing or anything? Thats crazy

They'll have railings for sure, but that doesn't mean anything. Stupid people can still fall over them. I was at a party last year in a Toronto high rise when the host freaked and ran out onto the balcony to pull a guest off the balcony's ledge. Seems the drunk guest thought the balcony's ledge was suitable for sitting, despite the fact that we were on the 37th floor. The guest admitted that he was oblivious to how high we were.

Like I said, drinking and balconies don't mix.

[Mopacs]

The 360 webcam page has been upgraded. Included now is a timelapse feature, which goes back as far as the camera has been live.

http://novare.oxblue.com/austin360/index.html

FYI...up to the 33rd floor now.

[priller]

The time-lapse is great. You can also see the Intel shell get blown up and cleaned up at the same time.

[andrew.A..T..X]

With all these buildings going up there is only one thing im woried about. The Frost Bank tower is a really cool looking building, and its a shame they couldn't of made it mabye 600 ft or so, because it may dissapear here after all of the buildings are done. i dont know what do yall think

[Mopacs]

With all these buildings going up there is only one thing im woried about. The Frost Bank tower is a really cool looking building, and its a shame they couldn't of made it mabye 600 ft or so, because it may dissapear here after all of the buildings are done. i dont know what do yall think

100% agreed. Architecturally one of the most significant high-rises built over the past few years (IMHO), and I love it. However, from the early days I found it proportionally too 'squat' and should have been at least 100ft taller. Much like the Chrysler Building in NYC, it won't lose its significance, but will be overshadowed in height by others buildings.

Can't really complain though... the developers took a big risk starting construction when they did (just weeks after 9/11 and during the ongoing dot-com bust).

[swild]

I know this building is not a favorite among the posters on this site, but the crane went up for La Vista on Lavaca earlier this week.

[hookem]

As they finish up the 34th floor in the next few days, is this an Austin milestone? The first 34th floor? I know Frost is 33, and I think there are some 30-32 floor buildings...

I know 360 still has a way to go til it reaches Frost height, and I'm very curious how it will look with the mainroof below the crown of Frost. I'm thinking it won't appear taller from some distant angles.

[Jdawgboy]

I think from the western angles 360 should look taller than Frost but from the east it might not look as if its taller. it should look taller for the most part since the highest floor of 360 will be like somewhere in the 460 foot range I think compared to the heighest floor on Frost is around 400 feet. if the Frost crown is about 115 feet higher than the top floor then that would make the highest occupied floor on 360 half way up on the crown. Thats not including the mechanical part of 360 and the spire part. Either way I think 360 will be the first real vertical tall looking building we have.

[Strayone]

^ Yeah from the North and South it will be very narrow and seem like a knife blade. 360 is a bit wide from the side views, and really blocks a lot of area out of sight. 10 floors to go at this point, I'd say by sometime in late October it will reach the roof.

[priller]

As they finish up the 34th floor in the next few days, is this an Austin milestone? The first 34th floor? I know Frost is 33, and I think there are some 30-32 floor buildings...

I was thinking much the same thing. The first building with 34 floors is certainly a milestone!

I know 360 still has a way to go til it reaches Frost height, and I'm very curious how it will look with the mainroof below the crown of Frost. I'm thinking it won't appear taller from some distant angles.

From the east, the Frost tower will certainly look a little taller:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1189/934609967_88d2e4130a_o.jpg

From the west, however, I think 360 will really look big. In fact, I've noticed recently, when coming up 5th Street, where I used to notice the Monarch looming so large, I now notice 360 a lot more behind it. After another 10 floors it will really soar.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1113/641692812_280134b926_o.jpg

[KevinFromTexas]

As they finish up the 34th floor in the next few days, is this an Austin milestone? The first 34th floor? I know Frost is 33, and I think there are some 30-32 floor buildings...


Yes, this will be the first time there's been a 34th floor in Austin.

The current list of buildings in Austin with 30 floors or more at the present moment:

Frost Bank Tower - 33 floors
One American Center - 32 floors
Austin Hilton Convention Center Hotel - 31
One Congress Plaza - 30 floors

360 will also be the state's new tallest all residential building and the tallest residential building period until the Mandarin Hotel in Dallas is completed which is 650 feet tall. This is of course if you count spires, which officially spires are counted in building heights. 360 will also be the first 40+ story building outside of Houston, Dallas and Fort Worth. Fort Worth's Burnett Plaza has 40 floors, but 360 will have 44. It'll also put Austin ahead of San Antonio by 17 feet, but Fort Worth will still have us beat by 4 feet with Burnett Plaza.

360's highest occupied floor will be 462 feet high versus 400 feet high for Frost Bank Tower. The building's roof at its highest point will be 472 feet high. I'm thinking that the roof will be slightly higher than where the crane is now. It'll probably be around 20 to 30 feet higher than the top of the boom. As for appearance on the skyline, 360's site elevation is 23 feet lower than Frost's. So the roof should be about halfway up the crown of Frost Bank Tower.

[hookem]

It'll also put Austin ahead of San Antonio by 17 feet, but Fort Worth will still have us beat by 4 feet with Burnett Plaza.
4 feet?! Some contractor involved with building that spire needs to make a measurement error, say plus 49 inches or so. Sort of a reverse of the Stonehenge set Spinal Tap error.

[KevinFromTexas]

Yeah, they should have gone for it. Oh well, there's still 3 more buildings in the works that would all be taller, one of which, The Austonian will have 56 floors. Another first, the first building in Austin over 50 floors of course, and the first in the state outside of Houston and Dallas with that many.

[MichaelB]

The time-lapse is great. You can also see the Intel shell get blown up and cleaned up at the same time.

That is soooo cool..... I can;t believe I was sooo focused on 360 (and the cars coming and going on the garage!) That I didn't notice the courthouse!

[jgouger]

Yeah, they should have gone for it. Oh well, there's still 3 more buildings in the works that would all be taller, one of which, The Austonian will have 56 floors. Another first, the first building in Austin over 50 floors of course, and the first in the state outside of Houston and Dallas with that many.

This may be going out on a limb here, but assuming that the level of construction and the market conditions continues for the next few years, Austin may have a skyline that rivals Houston and Dallas's today. Right now it looks like there will be at least 4 major new projects starting next year (21c, Four Seasons, 7th and Rio Grande, and T. Stacy's project) and possibly many more to come!

[eburress]

^^ Oh I don't know about that. Austin's skyline is coming along and will certainly feature some nice buildings, but Houston and Dallas' skylines are so much taller, fuller, more developed, and IMO striking. Maybe Austin's will catch up in 20-40 years -- assuming of course that Austin's development continues and those cities don't grow at all.

[andrew.A..T..X]

^^ Oh I don't know about that. Austin's skyline is coming along and will certainly feature some nice buildings, but Houston and Dallas' skylines are so much taller, fuller, more developed, and IMO striking. Maybe Austin's will catch up in 20-40 years -- assuming of course that Austin's development continues and those cities don't grow at all.

i agree. Austin's skyline will look great in 3-4 years, but still nothing like Houston or Dallas. Im not sure why San Antonio doesn't have a big skyline, mabye there are some restrictions or something but it is a bigger city than Dallas if you dont count metro, 7th biggest in U.S, you would expect a bigger skyline.

[ATXboom]

Interesting discussion.

I fully agree in 5 years downtown Austin will still not have the hieght or density of Dallas or Houston.

However it will have a similar amount of highrise buildings but Austin will be much more spread out over a much larger downtown area. Really stretching from the Concordia campus to the government area out to Lamar diagonally. Square mileage wise almost three times the area of Dallas or Houston's downtown.

From a distance downtown austin will look very wide as illustrated in Priller's models.

Austin will have a much more "modern" feel as well. Houston and Dallas will have the 80's historical perspective. Austin will look more like a Singapore or modern city built 2000+

Most importantly Austin will have more residents downtown than both Houston and Dallas combined and of course the urban street life they miss.

Should be fun to observe.

Oh yeah... metro populations drive the amount of business done in a region and therefore downtown sizes with the exception of residential... however there are exceptions like Madison, WI which has a big downtown for its population... or Seattle and Miami where there are a lot of residents living downtown and hence most high rises are actually residential and not business related, etc... Austin will be more like a Seattle or Miami with lots of residents as opposed to business only like Dallas, Houston, San Antone, etc.

[Complex01]

Interesting discussion.



Austin will have a much more "modern" feel as well. Houston and Dallas will have the 80's historical perspective. Austin will look more like a Singapore or modern city built 2000+



Austin will not look like Singapore, it will look more modern yes but not to the degree of an Asian city, thats for sure...

BTW that rendering is looking very good. Nice job...

:yes:

[Mopacs]

Unless Austin gets a few 1000 footers, I dont think our skyline will ever have the same imposing presence that Dallas and Houston have. Part of the reason is downtown's location in the Colorado River valley, relative to the rest of the city. Downtown Houston and Dallas are situated amongst a vast prairie/coastal plain that aids in their overall visibility, giving a truer sense of building heights.

Now on the other hand, Austin has the advantage of panoramic hilltop/valley views, which add a dramatic element to it (especially from South and West Austin). From northern and central areas of Austin, the skyline appears rather squat. Hopefully that will change with the taller/sleeker buildings on the way.

[jgouger]

Unless Austin gets a few 1000 footers, I dont think our skyline will ever have the same imposing presence that Dallas and Houston have. Part of the reason is downtown's location in the Colorado River valley, relative to the rest of the city. Downtown Houston and Dallas are situated amongst a vast prairie/coastal plain that aids in their overall visibility, giving a truer sense of building heights.

Now on the other hand, Austin has the advantage of panoramic hilltop/valley views, which add a dramatic element to it (especially from South and West Austin). From northern and central areas of Austin, the skyline appears rather squat. Hopefully that will change with the taller/sleeker buildings on the way.

Hey you never know! All of the doubting Thomas's out there are probably amazed that the 600' barrier is about to be shattered by the Austonian. If T. Stacy's project ever actually happens, then the 700' barrier will be shattered too!

[ATXboom]

Ha... I lived in Singapore. Downtown proper is actually considerably smaller than both Houston and Dallas. Orchard area has a lot of high rises... but those are just neighborhoods. Sing is certainly no Hong Kong and so forth.... and in fact most Asians don't consider it an "Asian" city... its a melting pot with many Inidans, Australians, and Americans.

I don't doubt Austin could get 1000 footers...

I think once the Waller Creek tunnel is done it will open up the east side of downtown to high rise development but that area is also subject to more cap view cooridor issues... so I see another fury of high rise development happening in another decade.

Too bad the city didn't plan for view cooridors from the outset like DC. You could have some nice avenues radiating from the capital.

[KevinFromTexas]

Yeah, I don't know about Austin rivaling Houston and Dallas just yet. Certainly the rest of Texas, but Houston and Dallas are monsters. Houston's downtown skyline is like a freaking mountain range. I guess size-wise, our skyline will be quite large, though, easily passing San Antonio and Fort Worth's. It's already 3 miles long north/south give or take from Barton Springs Road to about 28th Street, a distance of about 35 blocks. And it's about a mile wide. With the added height it'll be more dominant than it is now for sure. Also other areas of Central Austin are densifying and will expand the overall horizon of buildings past where it is now. The 30th and 32nd Street area looks like it'll have some highrises soon with St. David's expanding and the redevelopment of Concordia University. Also to the west are some low to midrise medical buildings in the 8-story range. Then farther north up around 49th to 51st you have a handful of midrise 10-story state office buildings. And then farther northwest will be The Domain. That's a good ways, though, about 30 to 40 blocks from those state office buildings at 51st Street. Still, it definitely is a densification of our city's core on a level that would have been unimaginable years ago.

And as far as the number of highrises go, Houston and Dallas still blow Austin out of the water. We'll have around 160 or so completed by 2011, but even now Houston and Dallas have a ton of buildings. At the present moment Houston has over 334 highrises completed while Dallas has over 238 completed. Dallas has 15 under construction while Houston has 18 under construction, Austin has 9.

Still, Austin is on its way to being the 3rd city in the state skyline-wise.

Ha, and that's the 2nd time in less than 3 days that someone here on the forum has mentioned a Texas city will look like Singapore. :koko: The other was Houston.

[Mopacs]

Hey you never know! All of the doubting Thomas's out there are probably amazed that the 600' barrier is about to be shattered by the Austonian. If T. Stacy's project ever actually happens, then the 700' barrier will be shattered too!

Oh i would never say Never either! All it takes is one building to break through a barrier, and it raises the bar for subsequent high-rises. 1000 footer is not out of the question in our future. Especially if developable land starts to shrink dramatically. Time will tell, and I'll be more than elated to be proven wrong!

[Strayone]

Dallas (11 Fortune 500)and Houston(23 Fortune 500) have such a large base of corporations compared to SA (5)that it is fitting they tower over the SkyLine in SA. The list below shows a lot of why Dallas and Houston have such dynamic economic presence. Many of the companies are in suburban Tx areas of Dallas and Houston and contribute to spinoff companies and they need office buildings somewhere.
2006 listing.
Texas
State Rank Company Rank Revenues
($ millions) City
1 Exxon Mobil 1 339,938.0 Irving
2 ConocoPhillips 6 166,683.0 Houston
3 Valero Energy 15 81,362.0 San Antonio
4 Marathon Oil 23 58,958.0 Houston
5 Dell 25 55,908.0 Round Rock
6 AT&T 39 43,862.0 San Antonio
7 Plains All Amer. Pipeline 65 31,177.3 Houston
8 Sysco 68 30,281.9 Houston
9 Halliburton 103 20,994.0 Houston
10 AMR 105 20,712.0 Fort Worth
11 Electronic Data Systems 108 20,537.0 Plano
12 J.C. Penney 118 18,781.0 Plano
13 Lyondell Chemical 121 18,606.0 Houston
14 Tesoro 132 16,473.0 San Antonio
15 Kimberly-Clark 140 15,902.6 Irving
16 D.R. Horton 162 13,863.7 Fort Worth
17 Texas Instruments 167 13,392.0 Dallas
18 Fluor 169 13,161.1 Irving
19 Waste Management 170 13,074.0 Houston
20 Burlington No. Santa Fe 171 12,987.0 Fort Worth
21 Centex 175 12,859.7 Dallas
22 Enterprise Products 183 12,257.0 Houston
23 USAA 189 11,980.4 San Antonio
24 Continental Airlines 207 11,208.0 Houston
25 Dean Foods 216 10,900.3 Dallas
26 Reliant Energy 220 10,708.0 Houston
27 TXU 228 10,449.0 Dallas
28 Tenet Healthcare 236 10,052.0 Dallas
29 Kinder Morgan Energy 243 9,787.1 Houston
30 CenterPoint Energy 244 9,784.0 Houston
31 Clear Channel Communications 252 9,468.9 San Antonio
32 TEPPCO Partners 267 8,618.5 Houston
33 Burlington Resources 298 7,587.0 Houston
34 Apache 299 7,584.2 Houston
35 Southwest Airlines 300 7,584.0 Dallas
36 Baker Hughes 310 7,218.0 Houston
37 Anadarko Petroleum 314 7,100.0 The Woodlands
38 Commercial Metals 329 6,592.7 Irving
39 Enbridge Energy Partners 335 6,476.9 Houston
40 Dynegy 337 6,438.0 Houston
41 Energy Transfer Partners 347 6,274.3 Dallas
42 Celanese 356 6,070.0 Dallas
43 Group 1 Automotive 361 5,969.6 Houston
44 Blockbuster 366 5,864.4 Dallas
45 Freescale Semiconductor 368 5,843.0 Austin
46 Pilgrim's Pride 382 5,666.3 Pittsburg
47 Smith International 390 5,579.0 Houston
48 RadioShack 423 5,081.7 Fort Worth
49 Atmos Energy 430 4,973.3 Dallas
50 Triad Hospitals 432 4,916.6 Plano
51 Temple-Inland 433 4,910.0 Austin
52 Whole Foods Market 449 4,701.3 Austin
53 National Oilwell Varco 452 4,644.5 Houston
54 El Paso 455 4,596.0 Houston
55 Affiliated Computer Svcs. 471 4,351.2 Dallas
56 Frontier Oil 496 4,001.2 Houston
57 Brinker International 504 3,912.9 Dallas
58 Neiman Marcus 512 3,821.9 Dallas
59 Michaels Stores 522 3,676.4 Irving
60 EOG Resources 528 3,620.2 Houston
61 XTO Energy 541 3,519.0 Fort Worth
62 Lennox International 560 3,366.4 Richardson
63 BJ Services 573 3,243.2 Houston
64 FMC Technologies 576 3,226.7 Houston
65 Holly 578 3,212.7 Dallas
66 EGL 599 3,096.5 Houston
67 GameStop 601 3,091.8 Grapevine
68 American National Ins. 609 3,045.5 Galveston
69 Crosstex Energy 610 3,033.0 Dallas
70 Trinity Industries 632 2,902.0 Dallas
71 Sabre Holdings 683 2,521.3 Southlake
72 US Oncology 684 2,518.6 Houston
73 Cooper Cameron 685 2,517.8 Houston
74 Stewart Information Services 703 2,430.6 Houston
75 Pioneer Natural Resources 708 2,417.1 Irving
76 Zale 715 2,383.1 Irving
77 Rent A Center 729 2,339.1 Plano
78 Builders FirstSource 730 2,337.8 Dallas
79 Adams Resources & Engy. 746 2,269.7 Houston
80 Benchmark Electronics 749 2,257.2 Angleton
81 Noble Energy 761 2,186.7 Houston
82 UICI 773 2,123.2 N. Richland Hills
83 Pride International 799 2,034.6 Houston
84 Southern Union 803 2,019.4 Houston
85 Perot Systems 807 1,998.3 Plano
86 Quanex 809 1,996.9 Houston
87 Texas Industries 822 1,951.2 Dallas
88 Pier 1 Imports 836 1,897.9 Fort Worth
89 Rush Enterprises 845 1,864.8 New Braunfels
90 Quanta Services 849 1,858.6 Houston
91 Newfield Exploration 870 1,762.0 Houston
92 Service Corp. Intl. 879 1,738.5 Houston
93 Men's Wearhouse 887 1,724.9 Houston
94 HCC Insurance Holdings 918 1,644.3 Houston
95 Kinder Morgan 932 1,594.5 Houston
96 ExpressJet Holdings 942 1,562.8 Houston
97 Alliance Data Systems 946 1,552.4 Dallas
98 Oil States International 953 1,531.6 Houston
99 Belo 962 1,521.2 Dallas
100 Pogo Producing 978 1,478.5 Houston
101 BMC Software 984 1,463.0 Houston
102 AmeriCredit 988 1,450.8 Fort Worth
From the April 17th, 2006 issue

[G Lee]

Dallas and Houston will always have more tall buildings than Austin but Austin's skyline is undergoing a more dramatic change. Dallas' tallest building was completed in 1985.

[KevinFromTexas]

Austin's seeing some impressive proposals, but they haven't all broken ground yet.

Dallas right now is building a 650 foot hotel/residential tower and has a proposal for another tower that is said to be 560 feet, though I think it might actually be taller according to the renderings. They also have one proposal which may end up being a 700 foot tower. Houston had the first 600+ foot skyscraper built in the state since 1987 back in 2001, and now it looks like they'll be getting another 630 foot tower. There's also a proposal for one that could end up being over 800 feet tall.

With The Austonian breaking ground, Texas will be the first state to have 3 or more cities with buildings at or above 600 feet tall. We already have more cities with buildings over 500 feet with 5 and 7 cities with buildings over 400 feet, soon to be 8 with South Padre Island building a new tallest. Come on El Paso, wink, wink, nudge, nudge. ;)

[Strayone]

Just wondering does The Hemisphere Tower count as a building, or in height stats? Surely it is taller than Frost or 360!

[KevinFromTexas]

Just wondering does The Hemisphere Tower count as a building, or in height stats? Surely it is taller than Frost or 360!

Technically it is a building, I mean you can open the door and walk inside. But it's not a traditional building so it usually gets left off of "building" lists. The Tower of the Americas is 622 feet tall to the roof and 730 feet with the antenna, though the old listing for the height with antenna was 750 feet. Up until the Stratosphere Tower in Las Vegas was completed in 1997 the Tower of the Americas was the tallest observation tower in the US.

Anyway, back on topic of Austin's development. ;)

[atx001]

So I drove by the former Binsingwear glass site (not sure what the official name is?) and noticed bulldozers were finally moving dirt around. Does anyone know of anything official?

[GoldenBoot]

:previous: Construction permits are still pending. I believe Phoenix Property Company wants to start vertical construction later this year, i.e., this fall.

[KevinFromTexas]

^ What project is this?

[crewer]

^ What project is this?

It's a 5-story apartment building (mixed use).

[MichaelB]

^ What project is this?

South Lamar at Toomey

[Strayone]

Are you talking about this?

[Strayone]

This should work, this is what your talking about.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=3008071&postcount=1330

[Mopacs]

Huge Statesman cover-story on the status of the high-rise condo market in Austin. ...

http://www.statesman.com/business/content/business/stories/realestate/08/26/0826condos.html


Austin condo market: How much is too much?

Developers and analysts say Austin could keep bucking national trends

By Shonda Novak (snovak@statesman.com)
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Sunday, August 26, 2007

http://img.coxnewsweb.com/B/09/82/41/image_5741829.jpg

Construction cranes and the shells of new buildings dot the downtown Austin skyline. Developers tout the latest high-rise condominium projects, some with luxury units topping $1 million. But from Miami to Las Vegas, a real-estate slump has been dashing developers' dreams.

And the question at Austin cocktail parties is: Could downtown, where developers have more than 1,400 luxury condos under construction and nearly 3,200 planned for the next few years, end up with too many units and too few buyers?

Several experts say the market is solid, fortified by healthy job, population and income growth.

But some who have lived through boom-and-bust cycles here and elsewhere caution that Austin isn't bulletproof and that demand for downtown condos, where prices can range from the $200,000s to $3.8 million, may shrink.

[KevinFromTexas]

Good article. Next week is going to be one for the books. The Austonian breaks ground and Town Lake Park opens.

[Strayone]

Did you notice in the AAS article they never mentioned Altavida and it wasn't included in their list of proposed and under construction. Seemed odd to me!

[priller]

Did you notice in the AAS article they never mentioned Altavida and it wasn't included in their list of proposed and under construction. Seemed odd to me!

Maybe the article was focusing on condos and not apartment buildings.

[Mopacs]

Here are some updates/pics I took this past Friday (8/24), focussed on 360.

Wide shot from the South Lamar Alamo lot

http://images27.fotki.com/v989/photos/5/54967/4687436/DSC_3043-vi.jpg

http://images27.fotki.com/v985/photos/5/54967/4687436/DSC_3099-vi.jpg

http://images29.fotki.com/v1017/photos/5/54967/4687436/DSC_3106-vi.jpg

http://images28.fotki.com/v978/photos/5/54967/4687436/DSC_3111-vi.jpg

http://images29.fotki.com/v1017/photos/5/54967/4687436/DSC_3107-vi.jpg

http://images29.fotki.com/v1017/photos/5/54967/4687436/DSC_3119-vi.jpg

http://images27.fotki.com/v981/photos/5/54967/4687436/DSC_3121-vi.jpg

http://images29.fotki.com/v1006/photos/5/54967/4687436/DSC_3123-vi.jpg

Austin Music Hall reconstruction

http://images29.fotki.com/v1011/photos/5/54967/4687436/DSC_3128-vi.jpg

Monarch...

http://images28.fotki.com/v988/photos/5/54967/4687436/DSC_3150-vi.jpg

From Lamar bridge...

http://images27.fotki.com/v996/photos/5/54967/4687436/DSC_3015-vi.jpg

http://images28.fotki.com/v987/photos/5/54967/4687436/DSC_3018-vi.jpg

http://images29.fotki.com/v1011/photos/5/54967/4687436/DSC_3020-vi.jpg

http://images28.fotki.com/v987/photos/5/54967/4687436/DSC_3070-vi.jpg

http://images28.fotki.com/v979/photos/5/54967/4687436/DSC_3078-vi.jpg

http://images28.fotki.com/v1004/photos/5/54967/4687436/DSC_3097-vi.jpg

From Lamar/House Park

http://images28.fotki.com/v998/photos/5/54967/4687436/DSC_2978-vi.jpg

The end, for now...

[KevinFromTexas]

Great shots there, Mopacs. The building is certainly starting to make a real impact on the skyline. I can now see about the top 2 floors poking up above the horizon here in South Austin, especially from the William Cannon bridge and the crane is appearing in almost every location that Frost does.

Maybe the article was focusing on condos and not apartment buildings.

I think you're right about that. They also left off AMLI II.

[crewer]

A quote from the Statesman article: At Spring, "we have sold all our lower-priced units," said Diana Zuniga, a partner in the project."

Sold? They're not sold until the closing takes place! And with the current mortgage crisis, you're going to see many people who THOUGHT it was a done deal suddenly find themselves unable to qualify at time of closing.

Here's an interesting article in the Wall Street Journal from this week:

Troubles Further Squeeze Property Lenders (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118799900508008451.html?mod=googlenews_wsj)
Full Force of Glut Is Felt As Buyers Back Out; 'More of the Iceberg'

[Austin55]

nice pics.I love 360's shiy facede.

[MichaelB]

Maybe the article was focusing on condos and not apartment buildings.

I think that is the case. I just went back and glaced at it. All the lists were focused on Condo's. No mention of any new apartment complex.

[priller]

Hey Mopacs, that's a great shot from South Lamar. I was just there this afternoon (watching "King of Kong", which is great!) and I had no idea you could see such a view from there. Was that from the 2nd floor of one of the buildings there?

[Mopacs]

Hey Mopacs, that's a great shot from South Lamar. I was just there this afternoon (watching "King of Kong", which is great!) and I had no idea you could see such a view from there. Was that from the 2nd floor of one of the buildings there?

The shots were taken from the top floor of the 'South Austin Gym' building next door. There is an exterior stairway from which you'll get these great skyline perspectives. I doubt you will find a better view of the city from any other gym in town!

[jgouger]

Mopacs,

What kind of camera and lens do you use to take your photos? Your photos are excellent as always!

Speaking of good vantage points.... the other day I was looking at some recently renovated houses near Kinney St. and came across a house that had a private 3rd floor balcony that had an incredible view of the skyline. That balcony would be a perfect place to put a jacuzzi and watch the construction while drinking a margarita!

[jgouger]

Link to Monarch's floor plans:

http://www.urbanspacerealtors.com/monarch/art_work/floorplans/floorplans_monarch.pdf

The floor plans look very nice. All of the units have good sized rooms and WICs with full size w/d connections.

[tildahat]

Link to Monarch's floor plans:

http://www.urbanspacerealtors.com/monarch/art_work/floorplans/floorplans_monarch.pdf

The floor plans look very nice. All of the units have good sized rooms and WICs with full size w/d connections.

I'm glad to see they have at least one sub 800sf 1-1 floorplan, but I don't understand why we never see 700-1000sf 2bdrms or 900-1300sf 3bdrms, or for that matter 400-500 sf studios. You know, like you might find in a real city. That would greatly diversify the people who could live downtown, without any subsidies, affordable housing programs, etc.

[Mopacs]

Mopacs,

What kind of camera and lens do you use to take your photos? Your photos are excellent as always!

Speaking of good vantage points.... the other day I was looking at some recently renovated houses near Kinney St. and came across a house that had a private 3rd floor balcony that had an incredible view of the skyline. That balcony would be a perfect place to put a jacuzzi and watch the construction while drinking a margarita!

Thanks! I am using Nikon's D40 "entry-level" SLR camera, with the included 18-55mm lens. Its an excellent camera, especially for those new to the SLR realm.

[Mopacs]

There are rumors floating around about a massive redevelopment/expansion of Highland Mall. It could include a dense, mixed-use westward extention of the mall, connecting to the proposed commuter rail station across Airport Blvd (accessible by a pedestrian bridge). Possibly comprised of high-rise office/hotel/residences. There's even talk of a Bass Pro Outdoors store. Can anyone confirm? Sounds extremely ambitious, but you never know.

[tildahat]

There are rumors floating around about a massive redevelopment/expansion of Highland Mall. It could include a dense, mixed-use westward extention of the mall, connecting to the proposed commuter rail station across Airport Blvd (accessible by a pedestrian bridge). Possibly comprised of high-rise office/hotel/residences. There's even talk of a Bass Pro Outdoors store. Can anyone confirm? Sounds extremely ambitious, but you never know.

While M1EK will be quick to point out that the commuter rail line there would be of limited (at best) use to residents, and he'd be correct, I'd love to see movement on this. The Highland neighborhood is the only one that adopted smart growth infill across entire sections of the neighborhood.

[arbeiter]

While M1EK will be quick to point out that the commuter rail line there would be of limited (at best) use to residents, and he'd be correct, I'd love to see movement on this. The Highland neighborhood is the only one that adopted smart growth infill across entire sections of the neighborhood.

What infill has exactly been built thus far?

[StoOgE]

What infill has exactly been built thus far?

Specs jumbo liquor store?

[MichaelB]

There are rumors floating around about a massive redevelopment/expansion of Highland Mall. It could include a dense, mixed-use westward extention of the mall, connecting to the proposed commuter rail station across Airport Blvd (accessible by a pedestrian bridge). Possibly comprised of high-rise office/hotel/residences. There's even talk of a Bass Pro Outdoors store. Can anyone confirm? Sounds extremely ambitious, but you never know.

That would be smart. That is such a hugh piece of property. With forsight, I think that area will be in demand again before long......Hope so...

Where did you hear this??

[Mopacs]

That would be smart. That is such a hugh piece of property. With forsight, I think that area will be in demand again before long......Hope so...

Where did you hear this??

Nothing concrete...I've heard 'rumblings' from multiple sources. I think some form of redevelopment within the next 3-4 years is inevitable. The mall is in a fantastic location overall, and any reinvestment by co-owners General Growth Properties and/or Simon could go a long way. Both have a history of pumping money into redevelopment of their older properties, so this is not out of the question. Perhaps the co-ownership has been a hindrance?

[tildahat]

What infill has exactly been built thus far?

Not much that I'm aware of - but there are two large sections where all the lots have a smart growth overlay. One is cottage lot option, the other urban homes or something like that. Plus all of St. Johns is MF-6. (EDIT: On second thought I think it's sf-6, townhouse option.) (This is all from memory, so don't quote me on it.) In other words, you could buy up 2 or 3 SF-3 lots and subdivide and actually have the NP on your side. Just need to get the ball rolling...

[M1EK]

Nothing concrete...I've heard 'rumblings' from multiple sources. I think some form of redevelopment within the next 3-4 years is inevitable. The mall is in a fantastic location overall, and any reinvestment by co-owners General Growth Properties and/or Simon could go a long way. Both have a history of pumping money into redevelopment of their older properties, so this is not out of the question. Perhaps the co-ownership has been a hindrance?

If you're looking for a major new investment, Highland is just an awful, awful location for the foreseeable future. Crime is high; nearby demographics are poor; and, no, the commuter rail line provides no major access to the property (the station, if built in the first round, is still just an every-30-minutes-during-rush-hour-only service with poor characteristics on the residential and office ends of the line).

This isn't anything remotely like the properties along DART's rail line which have redeveloped. The transit-dependent population which will serve as most of the ridership of this rail service is already over-represented at the mall due to the superior bus access provided by the transfer center.

Oh, and, driving access is poor too - compared to Northcross, for instance, because of the barrier the rail line and I-35 present to east-west circulation.

All in all, about the worst site in Austin (except maybe the 183/Braker strip malls currently being abandoned) for redevelopment. Don't hold your breath.

[Strayone]

I never heard of the high crime, can you explain? Good reason for change I'd say. How about the demographics what is wrong with that, do you suppose those are the only people that shop at highland. Wow it sure looks buzy at times. And how about that access to Highland - 290 Koenig, I35 frontage, Airport, just horrible, horrible access.

[KevinFromTexas]

I have heard of some crime there. I have to say it, the area around 183 and I-35 and 290 and I-35 has had a rash of crime over the last year and a half. These include car burglaries, muggings, some shootings. A guy was mugged and shot to death in the parking lot at Target in Capital Plaza. Of course that happened at 1 in the morning and I think they were beside the store, or slightly behind it. Typically this stuff seems to be happening right around I-35, from US 290 to around Rundberg.

This area does however have some good things going for it. Highland Mall is already one of the nicest in the city, I'd put it up against Barton Creek just about any day. I haven't been to Lakeline Mall, so I can't say for that one. As for the neighborhood, I haven't exactly explored it much, but I wouldn't really call the area poor. We ate at an Italian restaurant in that shopping center just west of I-35 at 290, and it was quite nice. Very nice menu, I had a gourmet pizza and the place had a wine list. Not exactly a "poor" establishment.

As for transportation, again, the place has huge potential, the city and Capital Metro just needs to recognize that and utilize the location. It has a rail line running right along it on Airport Boulevard. Plus, it's central.

[OfCourse]

Lakeline is nice. It's being renovated. Or was. I don't know if they've finished yet.

Last time I was in Highland Mall (2yrs ago), a huge fight broke out near the food court and the swarm moved through half the mall, through JCPenney, and out into the parking lot. Cops were all over the place. Not really unexpected from the types of people that hung out there at the time. Anyway, it always used to smell like marijuana in there. I haven't been there since.

[M1EK]

As for transportation, again, the place has huge potential, the city and Capital Metro just needs to recognize that and utilize the location. It has a rail line running right along it on Airport Boulevard. Plus, it's central.

The rail line is on the other side of Airport, and no commuter rail line remotely like this one anywhere in the country has ever spurred TOD in any way, shape, or form. Rail service every 30 minutes during rush hours only isn't going to bring in any shoppers - and CM says they'll only expand duration/frequency of service due to customer demand - which, once shuttle buses hit the vernacular, isn't going to be a factor. Broken record time: it does not pay to be naively optimistic about this thing; it's following precisely Tri-Rail's path to failure rather than the successful one blazed by LRT all over the country.

"It's central" in this case is a drawback, too, since access from the areas with favorable retail demographics is poor (from the west, for instance), although Mueller could help this.

[RobDSM]

That area around and in Highland Mall is a dump. I have only been to Highland Mall once since Lakeline opened, and that was about a year ago. I have no desire to go back. I rarely visit shopping malls anymore, but if I do it will be at Lakeline or the Domain (which I have yet to visit).

Any redevelopment of that area would be great, as it seems to be quickly becoming a dirty and dangerous area.

[hookem]

"It's central" in this case is a drawback, too, since access from the areas with favorable retail demographics is poor (from the west, for instance), although Mueller could help this.
I lived in NW Hills up until last year, and I can tell you access from the west (at least along 2222, places like NW Hills, Cat Mountain, etc) was very easy. From Allandale even better. 2222/Allandale/290 is the closest thing in Austin has to an E/W central thoroughfare. It took about 10-15 mins from 2222/Mesa to Highland, even with traffic, making it the most convenient mall for me. Barton Creek and Lakeline are nicer, but with any traffic on Mopac or 183, they were easily 25+ minutes away.

I agree that the Highland mall area is pretty sketchy, and there already is tons of bus access so the rail isn't going to add anything. But the road access, IMO, is very good.

[Jdawgboy]

Barton Creek by far is the best indoor mall we have in Austin. It is the largest as well. Highland has not had any renovations as far back as I can remember while Barton Creek has had about three major renovations and additions since it was built. Lakeline mall is the sister mall of Barton Creek so it too is being renovated.

[M1EK]

I lived in NW Hills up until last year, and I can tell you access from the west (at least along 2222, places like NW Hills, Cat Mountain, etc) was very easy. From Allandale even better. 2222/Allandale/290 is the closest thing in Austin has to an E/W central thoroughfare. It took about 10-15 mins from 2222/Mesa to Highland, even with traffic, making it the most convenient mall for me. Barton Creek and Lakeline are nicer, but with any traffic on Mopac or 183, they were easily 25+ minutes away.

I agree that the Highland mall area is pretty sketchy, and there already is tons of bus access so the rail isn't going to add anything. But the road access, IMO, is very good.

Now that 183 is done, the typical person in NW Hills is going to go to Lakeline long before they'd go to Highland. I was referring to west-central Austin (Hyde Park in particular - i.e. close enough in that Lakeline is a pain, and where there's enough money to make retailers interested). Try crossing Airport on 51st or North Loop someday (or heading over on 45th). Very different story - very unattractive way in.

[mars-man]

Very cool. Can’t wait to visit. Here are some terrific photos by Steve Hopson and others that Austinist linked to, as well as a few by Rodolfo Gonzalez in the AA-S.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/stevehopson/sets/72157601731593344/show/with/1273969794/

http://www.statesman.com/news/mediahub/media/slideshow/index.jsp?tId=32483

[WestAustinite]

I went to the new Park on Monday night and the view from the mound is spectacular. The fountain is awesome.

[MichaelB]

I went to the new Park on Monday night and the view from the mound is spectacular. The fountain is awesome.

Yes! I just posted the same on another thread! It was Great!!!!!!

[KevinFromTexas]

I'm really looking forward to visiting the park. I'll be like a kid in a candy store with the all the sights. I'm curious to see how good the pond and fountains are. And that labyrinth sounds really cool. An oh man, those pictures are so cool. That park is going to end up being a favorite spot of mine in the city I have a feeling.

The rail line is on the other side of Airport, and no commuter rail line remotely like this one anywhere in the country has ever spurred TOD in any way, shape, or form. Rail service every 30 minutes during rush hours only isn't going to bring in any shoppers - and CM says they'll only expand duration/frequency of service due to customer demand - which, once shuttle buses hit the vernacular, isn't going to be a factor. Broken record time: it does not pay to be naively optimistic about this thing; it's following precisely Tri-Rail's path to failure rather than the successful one blazed by LRT all over the country.

I see your point about the tracks being on the other side of Airport Boulevard. That basically makes them useless to a pedestrian on the other side of the street. I've never had to do it, but I bet Airport Boulevard is a pain in the ass to cross on foot. As for a pedestrian walkway over the street, I hate the way those look and they don't actually encourage pedestrian activity. They're just a bridge over a busy street to keep people from getting run over.

[LiveattheOasis]

Tomorrow is the Groundbreaking for the "new" tallest building in Austin! What time is it does anyone know?

[Lincoln]

I was wondering this same thing.

Also, would it even be anything to see, or does some guy just stick a shovel in the ground and a picture is taken? I've never seen a groundbreaking...

[WestAustinite]

Groundbreakings are typically ceremonial. You'll have the developers, the mayor, a few council members perhaps. The architects, the bankers, etc. You'll probably see a photo in Sunday's AA Statesman.

[MichaelB]

Very cool. Can’t wait to visit. Here are some terrific photos by Steve Hopson and others that Austinist linked to, as well as a few by Rodolfo Gonzalez in the AA-S.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/stevehopson/sets/72157601731593344/show/with/1273969794/

http://www.statesman.com/news/mediahub/media/slideshow/index.jsp?tId=32483

the Steve Hopson pics really capture the spirt of the park! Beautiful!

[Strayone]

That park looks like a gem, and it has such great potential to be a great destination for visitors as well the people of Austin. Those pictures blow me away.

[KevinFromTexas]

Just found this on the Waller Creek tunnel.
http://web.mac.com/jamesgstuart/iWeb/Site/Tunnel%20Project.html

[RobDSM]

That little park looks amazing! It looks like they put a lot of effort into it, and it strikes a perfect balance between the natural elements and the man-made. And on top of it all, it provides a perfect frame for the skyline. I think I may have to go pay a visit.

[andrew.A..T..X]

anyone go to that austonian thing?

[Jdawgboy]

No but I saw it on the news. You know the media really needs to get its facts straight. I keep hearing them say 55 stories when its supposed to be 56 right??? KVUE had it on its news ticker and they put 56 stories but when they started talking about it they said 55 stories.. Make up your minds people wich is it???

[KevinFromTexas]

Fox7 said 56 floors. They also posted greenbelt's photoshopped skyline rendering. austintowers.net's founder was on the news also.

[ATXboom]

Public asked to assess positives and negatives of downtown
Online survey will help set city's priorities in downtown plan.
Click-2-Listen
By Kate Miller Morton

AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF


Tuesday, September 04, 2007

The public will get a chance starting this week to weigh in on what they want downtown to look like 20 years from now.

City officials and their lead consultant on the downtown plan, ROMA Design Group, plan to post an online survey this week at downtownaustinplan.org to solicit comments. They have spent the past few months talking to special interest groups ranging from downtown property owners and residents to affordable housing advocates and cycling enthusiasts.


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"One of the things we're trying to be careful and conscientious about is that downtown belongs to everybody," ROMA principal Jana McCann said.

"We want everybody in the region to participate in downtown, and we, therefore, want to understand what are people's priorities, concerns and great ideas and not just the sort of near-in downtown stakeholders."

Participants will be asked why and how often they go downtown, how they get there and how they feel about the experience. They also will be asked to weigh in on how the city could make downtown a more desirable place to live and visit and what should be preserved as the area changes.

Anyone can take the confidential survey, regardless of whether they live in the city, and the questions will be offered in English and Spanish.

Austin has conducted numerous studies about downtown, but most of those looked at isolated issues such as the number of retailers or the condition of sidewalks and streets.

This newest plan, which the city is spending $600,000 to develop, will go beyond the zoning and land-use issues that are typically addressed in neighborhood plans.

It will lay out a vision for how downtown should be redeveloped in the next 20 years, tackling controversial topics such as building heights, view corridors, the sale of public land and affordable housing.

"The project as a whole is designed to establish a vision for downtown and a vision that has some legs to it that can endure over 15, 20, 25 years and be a guiding light informing private and public decision-making," said Jim Robertson of the city's neighborhood planning and zoning department and co-project manager for the downtown plan.

Robertson said the plan will be about more than just what the city would like to see in the area bounded by Interstate 35, Lady Bird Lake, Lamar Boulevard and Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard.

"The role of the downtown plan is to identify and put in place concrete steps that get us from where we are to achieving that vision," Robertson said.

"That may include things like changing development code; it may be coming up with an implementable plan for infrastructure improvements downtown and means for financing those improvements."

ROMA is expected to deliver the first phase of the project by the end of the year, including an overall vision and a prioritized list of things the city needs to do first to help make that vision a reality.

[G Lee]

Great to have the forum up again.
I rarely post but I read it every day

[andrew.A..T..X]

The first angled pieces have gone on the monarch

[priller]

I know, I've really missed it the last several days.

[KevinFromTexas]

Woah, nelly, it's good to be back. :)

The first angled pieces have gone on the monarch

Yep. Picture taken Saturday, 9/8.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b234/KevinFromTexas/Austin%20Town%20Lake%20Park%20day/P1110591EDIT.jpg

[MichaelB]

oh my.... I didn;t realize how addicted I was to the forum....

I have been out of town for a week now (still am)... and it is my link to Austin!

Welcome back!

BTW.... was at 21C Louisville this week..... what a great property!