Arar gets 12.5 million settlement

[mr.John]

Is this some kind of a sick joke?:koko:

[caltrane74]

holy shit.

When's the next flight to Syria?


www.thestar.com


Ottawa Bureau
and Canadian Press
OTTAWA - Maher Arar has received a formal apology and $10.5 million from the federal government in compensation for the ordeal he suffered in a Syrian prison after the RCMP incorrectly labelled him an Islamic extremist and security threat.
"The government of Canada and the Prime Minister have acknowledged my innocence," Arar said this afternoon after Stephen Harper announced the settlement and apology. "This means the world to me."

Arar, a Syrian-born Canadian citizen, was detained on Sept. 26, 2002, during a stopover in New York en route home to Ottawa. American authorities deported him to Syria, where he was questioned, tortured and jailed for nearly a year without charge.

Justice Dennis O'Connor concluded after an investigation last year that mistaken information passed to U.S. authorities by the RCMP "very likely" led to the U.S. deportation decision.

Arar has been seeking an apology and $37 million, down from his initial demand for $400 million.

"My suffering and the suffering of my family did not end when I was released. The struggle to clear my name has been long and hard," Arar said at a press conference after Harper's announcement. Arar said the government's action will allow him and his family to begin putting this episode behind them.

In a letter to Arar, Harper said, "I sincerely hope that these words and actions will assist you and your family in your efforts to begin a new and hopeful chapter in your lives."

Arar is also expected to receive $1 million to cover legal costs arising from his ordeal.

Harper said Ottawa will continue to press the United States to remove Arar from its border security watch list.

"We think the evidence is clear that Mr. Arar has been treated unjustly," the Prime Minister said. "He should not be on a watch list." Harper said the U.S. has not presented evidence to Canadian authorities to justify keeping Arar on the watch list.

Arar also thanked the Canadian people for their support in his legal case and in helping to get him out of jail in Syria. "Without the support of the Canadian people, I may never have come home."

Arar’s lawyer, Julian Falconer, said the apology and compensation represent a “triumph of innocence.

“To those few who may regard the compensation directed to Mr. Arar as some kind of windfall I ask you to consider this: no amount of money would cause a rational person to choose what Maher Arar and his family have been through.”

Falconer noted that Arar was confined to a cell just a metre wide for 10 months, never knowing from one day to the next when he would be dragged out and tortured.

Harper said the $10.5 million “is within this government’s realistic assessment of what Mr. Arar would have won in a lawsuit and that is the basis on which we concluded this settlement.”

Arar had sought $37 million in compensation after filing an initial suit for $400 million. Mediation sessions began late last year, opening the door to a settlement.

In September, Arar was exonerated after a two-year public inquiry led by Justice Dennis O’Connor.

The inquiry report found the RCMP passed misleading, inaccurate and unfair information to U.S. authorities that very likely led to Arar’s arrest and deportation to face torture in Syria.

The report pointed out that Arar’s inability to find work since his return from Syria has had a devastating economic and psychological impact on him and his family.

The telecommunications engineer came under RCMP scrutiny in Ottawa in October 2001 through his contact with Abdullah Almalki, the target of an anti-terrorism investigation.

O’Connor urged the RCMP to usher in a raft of policy changes on information sharing, training and monitoring of security probes. In the aftermath, RCMP Commissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli resigned over his handling of the file.

Arar, who now lives in Kamloops, B.C., continues to have troubles as American authorities keep his name on a no-fly list.

That led to a clash this week between Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day and U.S. Ambassador David Wilkins.

Day chided the Americans for continuing to harbour suspicions about Arar. But Wilkins said it was presumptuous of Day to tell the Americans who they can allow into their country.

Harper repeated the call Friday for the U.S. to reconsider Arar’s status, prompting Wilkins to issue a statement saying the two countries must agree to disagree.

“Based upon requests from Canada, the information in this case has been re-examined by the appropriate U.S. agencies,” Wilkins wrote.

“After that thorough review, the United States government informed Canada of its decision to keep Mr. Arar on a U.S. watch list. We are standing by that decision.

Democratic politicians have raised Arar’s case in Washington, demanding the administration officials explain their handling of the case.

U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales has said he’ll release more information on Arar to a Senate committee in private.

Senator Patrick Leahy, a Vermont Democrat, said he is anxious to see the file.

“The Canadian government now has taken several steps to accept responsibility for its role in sending Mr. Arar to Syria, where he was tortured,” Leahy said Friday.

“The question remains why, even if there were reasons to consider him suspicious, the U.S. government shipped him to Syria where he was tortured, instead of to Canada for investigation or prosecution. I look forward to hearing the Justice Department’s answer to that question next week.”

The NDP applauded Friday’s settlement, calling it long overdue.

“From the beginning, New Democrats, along with countless Canadians from every corner of this country, stood side by side with Ms. Mazigh in her battle to bring her husband home to justice and to his family,” said New Democrat MP Alexa McDonough

[Canadian Mind]

I think its a bit much, but he deserved it... maybe 4-5 million.

I think that this is more us showing the US the country is willing to give money to those whom they think are terrorists, perhaps in an effort to get America to STFU an take Arar of the flight list.

Could be effective, but i prefer to laugh at the states even if that isn't the intended plan.

[WHISTLERINMUSKOKA]

Good for him, he went through hell and I'm sure all the money in the world won't help him forget what he went through.

[ErickMontreal]

All this shit is caused by the coruption within RCMP...

To invent proof is illegal !

Great job RCMP, great job !

[mr.John]

For a man who supposely suffered so much,he certainly doesn't look
in bad shape to me.... poor baby.

[ErickMontreal]

The problem is RCMP, not Arar or the cash as well

If RCMP has not been able to make a good job, this is not my problem!

[Canadian Mind]

For a man who supposely suffered so much,he certainly doesn't look
in bad shape to me.... poor baby.

you think the torture was yesterday?

while i don't know what kind of torture he went through, generally injuries do heal after 3, or has it been 4, years now.

[mr.John]

Another question I have is ...how much are we paying our brave soldiers
in Afganistan who are risking their lives every day,while this whining bozo
makes off with 12.5 million tax payers dollars? welcome to Canada

[WHISTLERINMUSKOKA]

I'm sure the emotional scaring is much worse then anything visible.

[WHISTLERINMUSKOKA]

Another question I have is ...how much are we paying our brave soldiers
in Afganistan who are risking their lives every day,while this whining bozo
makes off with 12.5 million tax payers dollars? welcome to Canada

No they don't get paid enough, but unlike our soldiers Mr. Arar never signed up for what he got.

[401_King]

Another question I have is ...how much are we paying our brave soldiers
in Afganistan who are risking their lives every day,while this whining bozo
makes off with 12.5 million tax payers dollars? welcome to Canada

its not like he stole the money. the dude got tortured. i cant imagine the stuff he went through.

what an ignorant statement.

[ErickMontreal]

Another question I have is ...how much are we paying our brave soldiers
in Afganistan who are risking their lives every day,while this whining bozo
makes off with 12.5 million tax payers dollars? welcome to Canada

We had the choice to take part in this war. Canada wanted get involve the country in that war, we will pay for it too.

[mr.John]

"The dude got tortured" and was it Canada which carried out this torture?
one more thing why is half the middle east running around with Canadian passports?.... how soon we've forgotten about the Lebanese fiasco
"I'm a Canadian citizen evacuate me now"

[asher11]

All this shit is caused by the coruption within RCMP...

To invent proof is illegal !

Great job RCMP, great job !




I'm with you. I mean, completely aside from whether he deserved that kind of settlement or not, why should the taxpayer pay for this - take the 12.5 mil out of the RCMP/CSIS budgets (or the wages of those at the top) and fire some of those guys - otherwise, nobody learns anything from this (unless the "taxpayer" is supposed to have learned from this - haha). Does anyone really believe this won't happen again? Are there safeguards in place? Who in charge of all this mess is really going to sit down with their colleagues and say "Let's smarten up here boys"? Of course not. The only repercussions are that the taxpayer gets screwed over.

But, one thing. I am glad it's over. I am so fucking sick of opening the paper (Globe & Mail) every day and seeing so much attention given to one story - every day, day after day - ARAR. Stop it - move on already.

[asher11]

how soon we've forgotten about the Lebanese fiasco
"I'm a Canadian citizen evacuate me now"


Looks like we're going to have to do it all over again pretty soon. O Canada.

[The Chemist]

Another question I have is ...how much are we paying our brave soldiers
in Afganistan who are risking their lives every day,while this whining bozo
makes off with 12.5 million tax payers dollars? welcome to Canada

How about the US wrongfully sends you to Syria on the basis of false information from the RCMP to be tortured for a year and then we see how you like it. :rolleyes:

Nothing can make up for what Arar has suffered, but at least he's been given compensation. Now if only the US would admit they were wrong...as if that's ever going to happen, though. :hell:

[someone123]

Let's be reasonable here. Being tortured and jailed is not good, but 12.5 million basically means that Arar will instantly become quite wealthy and will not have to work another day in his life if he doesn't want to.

It seems excessive, and I don't buy the argument that his ordeal was so terrible that we should unquestionably be handing him huge sums of money. If the money were meaningless in relation to his suffering then he wouldn't be after it.

I bet if the government offered up $12.5 million for painful but non-lethal trips to Syria they'd have thousands of volunteers.

The other issue is that this guy is still suspected by the American government to have terrorist connections. Canada has cleared him but the government has been under a lot of pressure to do so because of RCMP bungling and Arar's personal popularity. I wonder what the Arar case would look like right now if he looked like an Arab Robert Pickton?

[asher11]

Good points someone123. The government caving under pressure to settle this is one thing, not doing anything to prevent this from re-occurring or making heads roll over this cost to the taxpayers is another thing completely. Let's not forget the millions (and yes it was in the millions, at least 5) that the RCMP spent defending itself at taxpayer expense.

The government owes the Canadian people an explanation, as well as some follow-up action - like some firings at the RCMP. Paying off Arar is not enough.

Robert Picton - what's with that? 49 women missing and the RCMP/Vancouver police didn't notice anything? OK, I know what their backgrounds were, but still, you'd think they'd have clued in. Hell, Jack the Ripper only had like 12 victims and all of Eastend London was terrorized. I can hardly wait for the lawsuit and payouts to the families from that mess. While we're at it, let's add in the payouts to the families of the 2 dudes who died in RCMP custody in Alberta and BC while a commissioner states that the "people don't have a right to know anything" and they'd conduct their own internal investigation. For shame.

[mr.John]

Thank you someone123 I'm glad this forum isn't made up of just bleeding heart ndp supporters. Hell for 12.5 million I'll do a tour of Iraq ,chances
are I'll get my ass back to Canada in one piece

[malek]

I am from syrian background and its common to hear from family and friends horror stories of people being literally destroyed by the Syrian authorities during detention for a few days or weeks.

I cannot imagine months of torture and humiliation.

[asher11]

bleeding heart ndp supporters

I'm about as far from that as you can get (well, in Canada, anyway).

A question to the westerners on the forum - has there been any talk of having your own provincial police forces like the OPP to replace the RCMP out there?

[m0nkyman]

I'm about as far from that as you can get (well, in Canada, anyway).

A question to the westerners on the forum - has there been any talk of having your own provincial police forces like the OPP to replace the RCMP out there?
Yes.

[sync]

$12M is a deal considering he was originally seeking $400,000,000.00

[m0nkyman]

$12M is a deal considering he was originally seeking $400,000,000.00
I think you meant 400 Billion Dollars:
http://www.defence.gov.au/news/armynews/editions/1119/images/16-dr%20evil.jpg


Sorry. I am as appalled as the next person about this awful case, but the Canadian government was neither the government that tortured Arar, nor was it the one that handed Mr. Arar to the torturers. That was Syria and the US respectively.

Canada isn't blameless, but I don't see 10.5 million worth of blame.

[malek]

monkey, it was proved that Canada has a big part of the blame (have you been following the news?)

Nevertheless, what would be a "fair" amount to you?

[asher11]

Canada isn't blameless, but I don't see 10.5 million worth of blame.




Good question - how was all that decided. Did the PM just pull a number out of thin air that he thought Arar would accept as if it was just a few cents that each Canadian would have to pay. I dunno - it seems like governmants do that - take the amount they plan to spend and divide it by 34 million and think "well, that's all it is per person". Then there's the optics of getting re-elected:

:dead:

[asher11]

it was proved that Canada has a big part of the blame (have you been following the news?)


Well, I dunno about Canada. I didn't have anything to say about it all and it all got going under a previous administration that I had no hand in getting elected - let's punish them. But, seriously, it was a failure of the RCMP as you stated earlier and the government - not the Canadian people. I would however, be in favor of stringing up all the politicians who happened to be MPs at the time, if only to teach them a lesson.

Of course, I am in favor of bringing back the guillotine for all politicians who have faithfully devoted themselves to "public service".

[m0nkyman]

monkey, it was proved that Canada has a big part of the blame (have you been following the news?)

Nevertheless, what would be a "fair" amount to you?

20% of what he gets out of the Americans. ;)

[trueviking]

its worth 12 million dollars to stop seeing this guy on the news...man i am sick of hearing about him....please lets move on.

[asher11]

:previous: :cheers:

[big W]

A question to the westerners on the forum - has there been any talk of having your own provincial police forces like the OPP to replace the RCMP out there?

Yes here in Alberta there have been talk for years about an Alberta Provincial Police (part of the so-called Harper firewall). The talk died however when that one guy shot and killed 4 mounties a year or so ago. I guess it is still too politically insensitive to talk about it.

[big W]

I support this actually. If I was sent to Syria to get tortured by the Canadian Government then I would want compensation as well. Remember our government was in the wrong and has now owned up to it. I would expect no less from any government in the country and that is the foundation of our legal system.

[asher11]

when that one guy shot and killed 4 mounties a year or so ago

Oh yeah, that - that's just one more reason to question the competence of the RCMP. Who sent those inexperienced officers into that compound without backup?

[Kilgore Trout]

The other issue is that this guy is still suspected by the American government to have terrorist connections. Canada has cleared him but the government has been under a lot of pressure to do so because of RCMP bungling and Arar's personal popularity. I wonder what the Arar case would look like right now if he looked like an Arab Robert Pickton?


ah, an arar skeptic. so i guess you've read the o'connor report and can knowledgably dispute the judge's findings, then? or are you just talking out of your ass? ("the US still suspects him, he's muslim, so he MUST be a terrorist!")

i'm not a lawyer, but given that arar was suing the government, wouldn't there have been a distinct possibility that, had this been settled in court, the government would have been on the hook for a much larger sum of money? don't forget that the canadian government is entirely to blame for the fact that arar was sent to syria and tortured in the first place, that he remained there for so long, and that he was the victim of a well-documented smear campaign when he returned.

[Kilgore Trout]

Thank you someone123 I'm glad this forum isn't made up of just bleeding heart ndp supporters. Hell for 12.5 million I'll do a tour of Iraq ,chances
are I'll get my ass back to Canada in one piece


yes, the 15 percent of canadians who support the NDP are the driving force behind the arar settlement! that makes perfect sense.

[malek]

But, seriously, it was a failure of the RCMP as you stated earlier and the government - not the Canadian people.

geeezuz, where to start with this guy:haha:

[Andy6]

ah, an arar skeptic. so i guess you've read the o'connor report and can knowledgably dispute the judge's findings, then? or are you just talking out of your ass? ("the US still suspects him, he's muslim, so he MUST be a terrorist!")

i'm not a lawyer, but given that arar was suing the government, wouldn't there have been a distinct possibility that, had this been settled in court, the government would have been on the hook for a much larger sum of money? don't forget that the canadian government is entirely to blame for the fact that arar was sent to syria and tortured in the first place, that he remained there for so long, and that he was the victim of a well-documented smear campaign when he returned.

I'm not sure what the basis of the suit would have been. But it would have been embarrassing for the government to have to defend it, and (more to the point) it would have turned a Liberal embarrassment into a Tory one. So whip out the chequebook and strike another blow, at taxpayer expense, against the media's cherished image of the Conservative Party as anti-immigrant or anti-Muslim or whatever.

We probably will hear about him in the media again, in about 4-5 years when feature stories start to appear in Saturday papers about how the family has run through their millions and is now destitute. At least, if he's anything like the average 6/49 winner.

[Andy6]

yes, the 15 percent of canadians who support the NDP are the driving force behind the arar settlement! that makes perfect sense.

Maybe some crucial NDP votes in the House of Commons have something to do with it, though. Wasn't his wife an NDP candidate as well?

[asher11]

geeezuz, where to start with this guy


If I must spell it out for you, making the taxpayer, and only the taxpayer pay doesn't hold anyone in the RCMP responsible and certainly won't prevent anything like this from happening again. I'm sure the head of the RCMP can just sit back and say "Carry on as usual, if we screw up again, it's OK - the taxpayer will bail us out". Let's just wait for the next round of lawsuits.

[asher11]

Quote:
Originally Posted by asher11
The other issue is that this guy is still suspected by the American government to have terrorist connections. Canada has cleared him but the government has been under a lot of pressure to do so because of RCMP bungling and Arar's personal popularity. I wonder what the Arar case would look like right now if he looked like an Arab Robert Pickton?


Kilgour, that was NOT "Originally Posted by me". I should not be given credit for some else's thoughts.

[Taller Better]

I haven't read the report. When people are saying that the Canadian government was entirely responsible for Arar being sent to Syria, what was the exact circumstances? I had heard the RCMP passed on incorrect information, but that the American's were acting on their own intelligence. What is the scoop?

[m0nkyman]

I haven't read the report. When people are saying that the Canadian government was entirely responsible for Arar being sent to Syria, what was the exact circumstances? I had heard the RCMP passed on incorrect information, but that the American's were acting on their own intelligence. What is the scoop?

Then read the report (http://www.ararcommission.ca/eng/26.htm).
An excerpt:

• The RCMP provided American authorities with information, including the
entire database from the aforementioned terrorism investigation, in ways
that did not comply with RCMP policies requiring screening for relevance,
reliability and personal information. Some of the information related to
Mr. Arar.
• The RCMP provided American authorities with information about Mr. Arar
that was inaccurate, portrayed him in an unfairly negative fashion and over-
stated his importance in the RCMP investigation.
• The RCMP provided American authorities with information about Mr. Arar
without attaching written caveats,2 as required by RCMP policy, thereby
increasing the risk that the information would be used for purposes of
which the RCMP would not approve, such as sending Mr. Arar to Syria.
• The RCMP requested that American authorities place lookouts for Mr. Arar
and his wife, Monia Mazigh, in U.S. Customs’ Treasury Enforcement
Communications System (TECS). In the request, to which no caveats were
attached, the RCMP described Mr. Arar and Dr, Mazigh as “Islamic Extremist
individuals suspected of being linked to the Al Qaeda terrorist movement.”3
The RCMP had no basis for this description, which had the potential to cre-
ate serious consequences for Mr. Arar in light of American attitudes and
practices at the time.

[the dude]

what a stupid thread. this is not about the failure of the RCMP, it's about their complicity. there's a big difference. i won't be losing any sleep over $12.5 million. do the math. it works out to about $.375/canadian. big friggin' deal. get over it.

also, arar was a computer engineer, described by fellow employees as a workaholic. let's not worry about him blowing his money and not being a valid member of canadian society. he's already shown his worth by coming to this country, learning english and being gainfully employed before being sent to syria. we're better for having him and others like him in our country.

[ssiguy]

I still believe that Arar is not as pure as the undriven snow but thats my opinion.
There is no doubt this was an obscene violation of his rights and our laws made even worse by doing it all in total compliance of the RCMP which is there to safeguard us from such things.
I to think 12 million is a bit excessive but it has brought to the forefront the corruption of the RCMP and the federal government so for that it has been a useful endevour. I congradulate the guy on seeing all the way to the end as opposed to a chunky little buy-out package which I'm sure the RCMP offered him as long as he shut up and dropped the whole thing.

The thing that hurt his case is that he initiatly asked for $400,000,000.........so bizzare I can't even fathom it. People thought he was nothing in except a nice juicy cheque.

Like I said I still think it was excessive but he clearly suffered horrific toture both physical and mental as Syria is one of the worst human rights and torturous nations on the planet which will haunt him for the rest of his life.
I can live with this settlement.

[LordMandeep]

your poor dumb fucks, aren't you guys....

Jealous because you don't get anything. Greedy pigs you guys are...

[Kilgore Trout]

I'm not sure what the basis of the suit would have been. But it would have been embarrassing for the government to have to defend it, and (more to the point) it would have turned a Liberal embarrassment into a Tory one. So whip out the chequebook and strike another blow, at taxpayer expense, against the media's cherished image of the Conservative Party as anti-immigrant or anti-Muslim or whatever.

good point.

We probably will hear about him in the media again, in about 4-5 years when feature stories start to appear in Saturday papers about how the family has run through their millions and is now destitute. At least, if he's anything like the average 6/49 winner.

that's awfully cynical of you... the "average 6/49 winner" isn't a computer engineer who is married to a woman with a ph.d.

[someone123]

ah, an arar skeptic. so i guess you've read the o'connor report and can knowledgably dispute the judge's findings, then? or are you just talking out of your ass? ("the US still suspects him, he's muslim, so he MUST be a terrorist!").

Well, let's have another look at what I actually wrote instead of making things up:

The other issue is that this guy is still suspected by the American government to have terrorist connections. Canada has cleared him but the government has been under a lot of pressure to do so because of RCMP bungling and Arar's personal popularity. I wonder what the Arar case would look like right now if he looked like an Arab Robert Pickton?

I noted that:
1) the US still claims to have issues with him.
2) it is in the Canadian government's best interest to quickly wrap this up.
3) he is fairly young and attractive, which tends to sway public opinion.

Somehow, (1), (2), and (3) became:

"the US still suspects him, he's muslim, so he MUST be a terrorist!"

...and I'm the one talking out of my ass? You didn't actually respond to my claims, you just invented a conclusion that I never wrote. I'm not even sure what the conclusions are myself.

[the dude]

the US does not suspect he's a terrorist. the reality is that if they acknowledge a fuck-up then it opens up a huge can of worms for them. how many hundreds are currently imprisoned in the US/guantanamo based on less than arar was tortured for? they'll have to deal with it eventually, just not now.

also, there are 3 other canadians who are claiming to have suffered the same fate as arar. we'll see what direction those claims go in the coming months.

finally, the pay-out to arar was based on what he would have likely gotten in the lawsuit. that's where the figure's come from. for people questioning the $400,000,000, well, question his lawyers, not him.

[Kilgore Trout]

the US does not suspect he's a terrorist. the reality is that if they acknowledge a fuck-up then it opens up a huge can of worms for them. how many hundreds are currently imprisoned in the US/guantanamo based on less than arar was tortured for? they'll have to deal with it eventually, just not now.


exactly.

someone, i apologize for the callousness of my response to you.

[TOBoy]

I love how he said that no amount of money would compensate him for his loss, yet sued for $400 million. Something tells me money was going to make him happy.

[BTTO]

Is this some kind of a sick joke?

how about you be labled evil and get tortured to confess something...
if anything this shows what a respectable, honourable country canada actually is!!!

[Arriviste]

I think he got what he deserved. Our country did let this man down, and he deserves compensation. 10 million is a lot, but if I were a torture victim I would want to live out my days sipping on ceasers, trying to forget the atrocities that I endured, and the country whom allowed it too happen.

[Pavlov]

Another thing to keep in mind is that the total bill for the inquiry and investigation for this incident will likely be more than the 12 million dollar settlement. I would imagine that the total bill will therefore be well over 20 million dollars. However, this was a very unique and singular case, and one that has brought a lot of attention on the RCMP. Hopefully in the wake of this scandal, reforms will be made at the RCMP that will prevent another incident like this, or one even worse than it. If that indeed happens, than it was 20 million well spent IMO.

[the dude]

like i said, arar is not the only one this has happened to. there are 3 other muslim men who suffered the same fate as arar. unfortunately for them, they're not as eloquent and educated as arar.

[MolsonExport]

For a man who supposely suffered so much,he certainly doesn't look
in bad shape to me.... poor baby.


what an imbecile remark. What do you think he should receive for wrongful imprisonment and torture?

[mr.John]

Was it Canada that imprisoned and tortured him? yes or no
P.S. keep your personal insults to yourself ,or go have another of your
molsonexports with your buddy Arar ,I"m sure he'll take care of the tab.

[Pavlov]

/\ Was Canada legally responsible and liable for Mr Arar's treatment in Syria? It certainly appears so (although several posters have raised good points about political considerations which may have lead to an unusually quick resolution).

[mr.x]

$12.5 million is way too much.....it's actually disgusting, seeing all our tax dollars pouring into this man. Instead, they should've given him $5-5.5 million ($2.5 million for lawsuit costs and $3 million for compensation).

If he somehow got $400 million from the government, you'd be seeing his dead body dragged on the street by an angry mob....

[WHISTLERINMUSKOKA]

You think he asked for that money (400 million)? His lawyers did, c'mon people anyone of us in the same situation would have done the exact same thing. If you say no I'd call you a liar.

[SpongeG]

meh we give loads of people money who do nothing all the time

a girl i know works in the welfare office and she gets people who come in often without passports or id and can't even speak english but they get money from welfare within 24 hours and she usually never hears more about them

than you get someone who gets laid off denied EI and can't get welfare for 3 weeks

it seems immigrants to this country know how to get money that most people don't even know about

i know of so many scamming immigrants it makes me mad but nothing ever happens - one guy we knew of - from the middle east - was on social services and was constantly asking them for things and money - one time he asked for money so his wife could go visit a relative in the USA - turned out he wanted his wife to go on some game shows down there

but here he was oh poor me on welfare yet he was able to buy TV's electronics, have a car etc.

another friend of mine his cousin told him to go get social housing - his cousin said you won't have to pay more than $400 - yet my friend works and saves makes a decent living working full time yet here is his relative encouraging to go milk the system - my friend asked me how he can get a place and i just have not been helpful at all

[WHISTLERINMUSKOKA]

Immigrants are driving the economy of much of this nation and I bet for every new Canadian leeching off the system you could find 2 or more leeches born right here. Lets not forget how many hard working an intelligent people come here only to be told they're degrees are useless. Some end up on welfare while others are stuck driving cabs or asking us if we would like to biggie size our combos. Arar was not a leech but a citizen that his country let him down. How long does somebody need to live here until he or she is respected as an equal Canadian and not brandished an immigrant?


This thread's going downhill fast.

[m0nkyman]

Immigrants are driving the economy of much of this nation and I bet for every new Canadian leeching off the system you could find 2 or more leeches born right here.

I'd say four.

As for my opposition to this, it stems from a realization that on a daily basis we are deporting people from the country that will face female circumcision/torture/rape and all sorts of depravities. Are we truly liable for the actions of foreign governments, and how responsible can we afford to be.

[mr.John]

"Are we truly liable for the actions of foreign governments" that sums up my
point perfectly ,for me there's nothing left to say but goodbye.

[WHISTLERINMUSKOKA]

Another question I have is ...how much are we paying our brave soldiers
in Afganistan who are risking their lives every day,while this whining bozo
makes off with 12.5 million tax payers dollars? welcome to Canada


One of you points it seems. Takes one to know one eh mr.John?

[SpongeG]

Immigrants are driving the economy of much of this nation and I bet for every new Canadian leeching off the system you could find 2 or more leeches born right here. Lets not forget how many hard working an intelligent people come here only to be told they're degrees are useless. Some end up on welfare while others are stuck driving cabs or asking us if we would like to biggie size our combos. Arar was not a leech but a citizen that his country let him down. How long does somebody need to live here until he or she is respected as an equal Canadian and not brandished an immigrant?


This thread's going downhill fast.


i am not picking on immigrants

I am just saying its pretty amazing how fast they find out how to work the system and do so

I know just as many canadians who scam the system

and the system is just as much to blame and no wonder it gets take advantage of

as for Arar - he was a citizen and Canada probably did him wrong and a settlement was in order

[LordMandeep]

look we would all sue if we were in the same situation.

However Arar is very smart and was able to win the support of Canadians.

PLus if he did get 400 million, we would bitch for 2 weeks then go on to our jobs. Canadians don't really get to angry about things like this.

[ssiguy]

Hey people.
It is important to make clear divisions in this conversation. Someone who is an immigrant has gone thru all the hoops and has qualifications up the ass. Contrary to popular beleif it is very difficult to get into Canada. WE have very high levels of qualification minimum of which is a minimum of a standard university degree.
It is the refugees are the ones who are bogus and blead the system and thanks to our ever so esteemed lawyers they can appeal their denial of status til the cows come home.

[Pavlov]

Mr Arar is a Canadian citizen. It makes absolutely no difference in this case whether he was born here, immigrated here as an economic class immigrant, a family class immigrant, or a refugee. He is a Canadian citizen and his government, without the due process which he is guaranteed by the constitution, colluded with foreign governments to have him deported and tortured. So how is immigration or the Canadian refugee policy an issue in this case? Perhaps the $0.35 this settlement cost some taxpayers is enough to awaken some long-dormant xenophobia? Or perhaps it wasn't dormant at all?

[Pavlov]

Hey people. It is important to make clear divisions in this conversation. Someone who is an immigrant has gone thru all the hoops and has qualifications up the ass. Contrary to popular beleif it is very difficult to get into Canada. WE have very high levels of qualification minimum of which is a minimum of a standard university degree.
It is the refugees are the ones who are bogus and blead the system and thanks to our ever so esteemed lawyers they can appeal their denial of status til the cows come home.

In fact, half of all immigrants to Canada are family class, which means that their only "qualification" is that they were sponsored by a family member in Canada. However, as a I've already suggested, its irrelevant in this case how Mr Arar became a Canadian citizen. It is only relevant that he is a Canadian citizen.

[Taller Better]

"colluded with foreign governments to have him deported and tortured"

The Canadian government supplied incorrect information to the Americans. Are you saying the Canadian government intended him to be taken to a third country, Syria, and tortured??!? Where did you get this information? Let us not forget that the American government played a rather ** ahem** LARGE role in all of this. I'm happy the issue has been settled and Arar can get on with his life, and Canadians can stop flaggelating themselves about what happend. I'm happy if this will help prevent it happening to another innocent person.

[Pavlov]

/\ You're right. It is not clear whether Canadian officials expected Arar to be deported. I overstated that. However, after his arrest in New York, the RCMP did (incorrectly) notify the Americans that Arar was no longer a Canadian citizen.

[Taller Better]

Knowing the way the Americans operate, I sincerely doubt they gave any information out about their intentions.They probably requested information about Arar, and received it. I simply cannot believe they openly admitted to the Canadians they were not only going to detain him, but to fly him to Syria and torture the poor guy.
Supposing I knew a man named Joe. A camera got stolen, and it really looked like Joe might be the theif. Frank, who owned the camera, asked me my opinion, and I said:"Yes, I am pretty sure Joe stole your camera". Frank then picks Joe up, carries him out to the back alley and breaks his kneecaps, teeth, and as many other bones as he can. Moral question; am I directly responsible for Joe's broken bones, or is Frank? I played a role in the affair, but ultimately it was Frank who took it upon himself to beat the tar out of Joe. I collaborated in the sense I passed on incorrect information, but I did not participate in the beating or even know it was going to happen. If I had told Frank "No, I do not think Joe stole your camera", would Frank have let the incident drop (bearing in mind Frank thinks I am an irritating weakling) , or would he have continued to beat up Joe based on his own information (bearing in mind that Frank has a habit of doing whatever he likes)? It seems to me this is a similar situation to what happened to Arar. There is a partial guilt on the part of Canada, but it does not strike me as a full collaboration.

[Pavlov]

/\ Although the American policy of "extraordinary rendition" began during the Clinton presidency and had become increasingly common after 9/11. Is it unfair to assume that the RCMP could have at least suspected that Arar may be deported to a third-party state for "interrogation"? Its difficult to say.

[Taller Better]

The American government generally plays its hand very close to its chest, and I am sorry to say that the opinion of Canada rarely affects the outcome of their actions. Witness the present situation.. Canada can beg/demand/scream all it wants and the Americans will not change their mind about Arar one iota. Canada is nothing but an irritating little mosquito buzzing around their ears. I think Canada has done what they can to make amends, and I think we should move on. Hopefully lessons have been learned.

[MolsonExport]

Thank you someone123 I'm glad this forum isn't made up of just bleeding heart ndp supporters. Hell for 12.5 million I'll do a tour of Iraq ,chances
are I'll get my ass back to Canada in one piece

With your insulting attitude and your childish intellect, I am sure that you will soon appear on the BANNED list of forumers, Mr. Comfortably Dumb.

[malek]

i would be surprised, there's no rules for banning ignorant and stupid members.

[Taller Better]

"Originally Posted by mr.John
Thank you someone123 I'm glad this forum isn't made up of just bleeding heart ndp supporters. Hell for 12.5 million I'll do a tour of Iraq ,chances
are I'll get my ass back to Canada in one piece"

Hell, if I had an extra 12.5 million I'd happily buy him a one way ticket to Iraq and see how much he likes it..

[mr.John]

I'm curious... since quite a few people seemed to agree with the
Arar settlement what do you think a fair settlement would have been in the Milgaard case ? This poor fellow spent 23 years in jail for a murder he didn't
commit he ended up getting 10 million from the provincial and federal governments combined , do you think Mr. Arar suffered more than David
Milgaard?

[malek]

Its two different kind of suffrance, both deserve their settlement.

Comparing the two is like comparing which is better, "killing with a gun" or "killing by drowning", its useless.

[drizzo_613]

lol @ mr.john haha.....they just don't make em that stupid anymore

[asher11]

:previous: Ha - another noob soon to be on the BANNED list of forumers

[mr.John]

Internet trolling involves a user making comments intended to provoke an angry response...... I plead guilty guilty guilty. To set the record straight I couldn't care less how much money Mr. Arar is getting from the government in fact my philosophy in life is to quote Steve Miller "take the money and run"

[Taller Better]

^^^ There's a shock. :sleep: