[Verve]

I am very ignorant when it comes to actual workings of development and things like this proposal. I am more of a pipedream person:) . That idea sounds fantastic and I would have never thought of that. I think the city could then take that money and turn it around for some parking decks(preferably like the new ones in Charleston that are hidden within the interior of a block with very discreet entrance/exits). Those service lots are really putting a halt to downtown development because alot of them are located right off the Dauphin corridor. They were fine when Dow started the string of pearls b/c they provided parking near the on redeveloped area. Now they are preventing the spread of development outside of that area.

I agree that the parking lots are what some term as the "missing teeth" in a smile. There has to be a way to either provide an incentive for them to sell or as indicated earlier, a higher tax that could be used for other downtown projects.

[CottonCity251]

On the front page of the Mobile Press yesterday they showed a view of Downtown Mobile from Mobile Landing of the CSX Building being demolished. I hope this means construction is soon to follow.

http://www.al.com/press-register/pageone/thursday1b.pdf

[BamaGrad04]

It's about damn time. I know the asbestos removal contributed to the delay, but it was beginning to sit for just a tad too long.

[Musicisright]

You mean it's actually going to happen? Wow, I had lost hope on that project.

[elb401]

I'm glad that Downtown isn't going through a cool down period!! I still think the court house is a horrible idea. There are huge oak trees and two historic (1800s) town homes that they would have to destroy, and they would have to put another break in the street grid pattern. wish they could find a different place or build up.

[austin356]

I'm glad that Downtown isn't going through a cool down period!! I still think the court house is a horrible idea. There are huge oak trees and two historic (1800s) town homes that they would have to destroy, and they would have to put another break in the street grid pattern. wish they could find a different place or build up.



These should move those homes if at all possible. Mega-movers on the discovery channel style.

[elb401]

maybe. But I would like for them to stay. any I dont like the idea of a futuristic building like that being in the detonti square district. I think they need to find a different place or at least just build up.

[Alxx611]

Yea, I'm not too crazy about the new courthouse either.

On a brighter note, here's the Register's pics of the RSA Tower from across the river, as well as a pic of the CSX Building's demolition.


http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/Alxx611/downtown/CSX.jpg


http://www.downtownlivingmobile.com/images/rendering.jpg


Unfortunatley, their Water Street Landings website is no longer up.

[CottonCity251]

Hopefully the lot won't sit empty for long.

[Verve]

Here's a shot of the remains of the CSX Building taken on Saturday. I hope the construction process begins as quickly as it went down.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/176/433469020_cf236569be.jpg

[Exodus]

Mobiles skyline is changing so fast.

[Scottybo]

Here's a shot of the remains of the CSX Building taken on Saturday. I hope the construction process begins as quickly as it went down.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/176/433469020_cf236569be.jpg

LOL, it took forever to come down.

[Bama_75]

I'm glad to see the eye sore gone...

[pboo74]

iam so happy their finally knocking that down to start construction.......

[Exodus]

My wife is a little upset that they are building towers by the river. She claims it will ruin the area by clogging up views.

[elb401]

I would tell her not to worry to much. there were not that many places that could see the bay anyways. the only view that will be affected will be the view of the riverview hotel. but they can still see the delta.

[pboo74]

i've read an article online,chastang has presented this to mayor jones yesterday, about plans to put a 21 story condo where the old courthouse sat.do anyone has a rendering of this?i think it's in today's paper??????

[nimsjus]

The article on the courthouse condo site...
Vision of 21-story downtown condo unveiled
Friday, March 30, 2007By DAN MURTAUGHStaff Reporter
A lush, 21-story beige condominium building overlooks a fountain pool surrounded by trees in a conceptual drawing based on Mobile County Commission President Juan Chastang's vision for the old courthouse site in downtown Mobile.

Chastang and John Stainback -- the head of a development firm the county paid to come up with the drawing -- presented the sketch to Mobile Mayor Sam Jones on Thursday, hoping to create a consensus on developing the now-vacant property.

In addition to the condo tower and fountain, the drawing includes a new vision for the nearby Probate Court building. Instead of adding three more stories to the building, Stainback would demolish the current building and create a new one with office space for government and private use.

The first floors of both buildings would be filled with retail space, and a restaurant with a large outdoor eating area would be situated next to the fountain.

The county would contract with a private firm to build the development at an estimated cost of between $85 million and $100 million, said Stainback, president of Stainback Public/Private Real Estate.

The county would reap between $500,000 and $750,000 per year in lease fees, and the complex would create about $1 million per year in both property tax and sales tax revenue, Stainback said.

The property has been a source of contention between city and county leaders since April, when Chastang announced that he wanted to build a condominium tower on the site of the old Mobile County Courthouse, west of Royal Street and between Government and Church streets in downtown Mobile.

Prior to that, the county had planned on building a Mardi Gras-themed park on the site, which would include a fountain or water feature of some kind.

When Jones was a commissioner in 2002, the commission voted to build the park once the courthouse was torn down in 2006.

Jones has steadfastly opposed the development plan since Chastang announced it.

The link to an adobe version of the front page of the register with a rendering is below.
http://www.al.com/press-register/pageone/friday1a.pdf
The picture gets a little distorted when you zoom. I like the look of the building itself, but with the pool and all it looks like it belongs at Gulf Shores, not downtown Mobile. I also thought it was dumb/rude to present this to Mayor Jones, in an attempt to get him on board, and the renderings don't inculde space for the park that Jones wants on the site. I think the park and the retail/condo thing are great ideas. After seeing the renderings, I think that project would be more than downtown could handle as far as condo units. Not everyone who wants a downtown condo wants it in a big brand new building like the ones at the Gulf. This project creates alot of very similar units, maybe more than the market can handle. I also feel like the office space parts of the project are also unnecessary at the moment. We still haven't seen if the RSA Tower's addition to existing office space downtown can be supported. If it was my choice, I say build the park and let the CSX site do condos. All that hinges on a big "if", which is whether or not the CSX condos ever happen. I think we can support one cond/office/retail project, but two at one time seems like a little much.

[CottonCity251]

I love the design of the proposed condos. I only hope this site is developed in this way, its adds much need beauty to this part of downtown. This site is too large to be used as a Mardi Gras themed park when you have alot of other smaller vacant lots that could be used for a park. Now, both the old courthouse site and the old CSX Building site willl have retail space as well as office space, when you consider the areas where the sites are located both retail and offices can be used. The old CSX Building site, where Waterstreet Landing will stand, will be used by visitors the Maritime Center and the Criuse Terminal will bring whereas the old courthouse site development will be used by general citizens and visitors. I don't believe that the office space in these two projects will affect that of the RSA Tower. If the city plans to have 10,000 residents living downtown by 2010 both projects are needed.

Where is the Probate Court? I thought it was in the old Press-Register Building?

[elb401]

I do not like the plans for the condo tower. Just not in that spot. I think it would be much nicer if the condos were 4-6 stories tall and and left a little bit of room for the park. After all the only surviving piece of the wall of fort conde (early 1700) is sitting on that site. I also like that the Old church there has a nice veiw. also it allows for the oldest sidewalk in Mobile (early 1800s) to be seen and the oldest street light in Mobile to be seen. I do like the building for a different place. I think it needs to be a more Creole or colonial looking building. not floridaish.

[austin356]

I do not like the plans for the condo tower. Just not in that spot. I think it would be much nicer if the condos were 4-6 stories tall and and left a little bit of room for the park. After all the only surviving piece of the wall of fort conde (early 1700) is sitting on that site. I also like that the Old church there has a nice veiw. also it allows for the oldest sidewalk in Mobile (early 1800s) to be seen and the oldest street light in Mobile to be seen. I do like the building for a different place. I think it needs to be a more Creole or colonial looking building. not floridaish.



Mobile should not stop progress to save any of these things you mentioned, which nobody (less than a couple % of the city) give a damn about.

I agree with you about building style, it does need more "Mobile" in it, or if they are just completely against that then do something modern (though that is less preferable than traditional southern coastal architecture.


Personally I think the fountain is a good idea. It is a place of congregation during the summer and would actually serve the area as a "more used" public space than a park. Though I believe the current design of the fountain is not great.

[austin356]

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f380/austinw356/MobileCenter.jpg

[austin356]

Ok so can anyone explain the politics behind this and what if any, agreements/acceptances are needed by the county for this to go forward.

I know this is county owned land, but I also know that Jones has said he opposes a condo. So who wins out? Does Jones have any direct authority over this project?

[Mike06]

It said in the article that Jones approval was not necessary, but Chastang said he would like him on board. He will need support from one of the two other commissioners to build.

[nimsjus]

I love the design of the proposed condos. I only hope this site is developed in this way, its adds much need beauty to this part of downtown. This site is too large to be used as a Mardi Gras themed park when you have alot of other smaller vacant lots that could be used for a park. Now, both the old courthouse site and the old CSX Building site willl have retail space as well as office space, when you consider the areas where the sites are located both retail and offices can be used. The old CSX Building site, where Waterstreet Landing will stand, will be used by visitors the Maritime Center and the Criuse Terminal will bring whereas the old courthouse site development will be used by general citizens and visitors. I don't believe that the office space in these two projects will affect that of the RSA Tower. If the city plans to have 10,000 residents living downtown by 2010 both projects are needed.

Where is the Probate Court? I thought it was in the old Press-Register Building?

To say the office space will have no effects on downtown office space is premature. Mobile has not proven it can fill the RSA Tower, while maintaining current occupancy in preexisting space. Only time will tell that, and I think Mobile should hold off just a little before oversaturating the market. You want to keep things a hot commodity. I agree that there are plenty of empty lots in downtown, but the problem is very few are available for development at reasonable prices. This piece of property is owned by the county, and provides an easy transition to a park(which is still a public space). I think the property is plenty big enough for a decent sized condo tower with a smaller park/water feature. If they can squeeze in a resort swimming pool, I think they probably could have compromised and created a park on the property. They don't need Jones' approval though and so they will probably proceed however they want as long as they get 2 of 3 commisioners on board. The one thing I am 100% for in this project is the ground level retail. I think retail on that block would spur retail development along Royal and up Govt. moving away from that corner. That area has been somewhat of a gap between the Civic Center/Ft Conde area and Dauphin/Bienville. I think preserving the historical aspects on that site(Fort wall,sidewalk, and lamp post) could be done regardless of what development is done. I think that should be a stipulation on whatever project is chosen. We destroyed enough of our history in the 60's/70's. No reason to eliminate any more. It would not be a deal breaker to the developers to have these things preserved.

[Alxx611]

I really feel we're overestimating the condo market in downtown. Even Water Street Landing is a bit much to me, but now another 21 storys worth of condos? I don't like to see the lot sit and rot, but i think we should wait first and see how Water Street Landing plays out.

The building itself looks nice, very nice, but is that a pool at the bottom or is that the actual fountain? I think they could work on the bottom area, its not really park like enough, it looks like a pool resort the belongs to the condos, not the public.

[austin356]

The building itself looks nice, very nice, but is that a pool at the bottom or is that the actual fountain? I think they could work on the bottom area, its not really park like enough, it looks like a pool resort the belongs to the condos, not the public.

Its the fountain, which I think could be made a bit more "public space like".


I really feel we're overestimating the condo market in downtown. Even Water Street Landing is a bit much to me, but now another 21 storys worth of condos? I don't like to see the lot sit and rot, but i think we should wait first and see how Water Street Landing plays out.

You might be right, though right now we just dont know for sure. Waiting until construction has started on Water Street landing would be the most prudent thing imo.

[trnsplnt]

Is that a private pool?!? Well I'll be damned... a big private pool in the heart of downtown!?! :hell: This land would be much better served with a condo overlooking a public park. NOT a fenced-off private pool. Come on people, can we compromise just a little... 50/50, little park here -little condo there.

Nonetheless, I think the building looks reasonably nice, reminds me of an overpriced Florida vacation, but let us not be picky.

[Musicisright]

http://xs313.xs.to/xs313/07136/rendering.png

I like the top...Reminds me of the GM&O. I agree though, it could use a little more Mobiliness in the design instead of its beachiness. I still really like it, though. The whole time I pictured the condos facing East for some reason. But they'd be facing South (that's the AmSouth Building in the background). Hm.

[Verve]

http://xs313.xs.to/xs313/07136/rendering.png

I like the top...Reminds me of the GM&O. I agree though, it could use a little more Mobiliness in the design instead of its beachiness. I still really like it, though. The whole time I pictured the condos facing East for some reason. But they'd be facing South (that's the AmSouth Building in the background). Hm.

It is a nice design and I agree with the others about waiting to see how the waterfront condos sell. It is much larger than I had expected when the idea was first raised by Chestang.

I imagine this design to the south maximizes the view of the river and bay.

[austin356]

Is that a private pool?!? Well I'll be damned... a big private pool in the heart of downtown!?!



Ok, let me say again for the 4th time. That is a public fountain.

[Blazer85]

Have they started pre-selling any units in the Water Street Landing?

[Alxx611]

Remember too that they're building the Hampton Inn right behind these condos too, so maybe we'll have some more density now in that area.

[CottonCity251]

I see this project could move faster than Waterstreet Landing. Anyway, I last heard Waterstreet Landing was scaled back to the retail section of the project? I would rather condos on the old courthouse site than Mobile Landing, which might be a better site for a Mardi Gras themed park.

What would you'll name this project? My pick is Highland Park because I always saw this site as the highest in elevation downtown.

[nimsjus]

I would go with something to reflect that the courthouse has been in that vicinity for a couple of hundred years. Maybe something like Court Square. As for the Waterstreet Landing project, I don't see how those investors are not lsing their shirts over this deal. They paid a ton of money for the property and some more for demolition. Since they pruchased the property, construction costs have skyrocketed so much so that there original plan seems to be impossible to make moeny off of. Now they are planning on putting just retail on the site. Well that is great, but how can a retail development of that small size make back the millions spent on the property? I wouldn't be surprised to see these guys sell the property as soon as demolition is completed. That would get them back more of their money than just building a few spaces for stores and collecting rent from leases. Not being pessimistic, but I just can't see how those investors can make any money out of this situation as it is now.

[Exodus]

Looks like a really good design. I hope that building gets built. Mobile is on the threshhold of doubling the size of its skyline that its had for years. Very exciting era for the city.

[elb401]

If they built the building facing south then all those historic things that nobody cares about will be open more to the publice and can be preserved. :D But still can downtown hold two large condo buildings?? It is a pretty building and the top kind of does look like the GMO, but it needs to be more histioric Mobile.

[Blazer85]

Probably not both Water Street and this one will be built at the same time. Or if they are, one of them will likely not be as tall as their original proposal.

[Alxx611]

I wish the park had a more Mardi Gras theme to it because I forget that the courthouse site is along a major stretch of Mardi Gras Parade route.

[sahara727]

i think the design is great. the setbacks are very dramatic--very gothic. also, the gm&o-esque top is kind of florentine. it's much more attractive than i expected. in addition, the pavillion, retail, and fountain seem to offer an inviting street-level aspect. besides, we mustn't get too picky about architecture just because we're spoiled in the rsa era. let us not forget that our downtown is home to the R2D2 courthouse.

[nimsjus]

File this under "Never going to happen"...
Civic Center swap offered
Tuesday, April 03, 2007By DAN MURTAUGH and JEFF AMYStaff Reporters
Mobile Mayor Sam Jones has pitched a trade offer to the Mobile County Commission: the Mobile Civic Center parking lot for the old county courthouse site.

Jones made the offer last week to Commission President Juan Chastang as a way to end the dispute between the two over the old courthouse site in downtown Mobile. Jones wants a park there, while Chastang wants to let a developer build a high-rise condominium tower and retail stores on the property.

"My question to them was, 'Tell me what it would take to get you off this corner,'" Jones said in an interview after meeting with Chastang and John Stainback, who is consulting with the county on the deal.

Advertisement





Chastang and Stainback said they would need another downtown property suitable for development, according to Jones.

The mayor said that if the county could get a developer to tear down the Mobile Civic Center complex and build a new parking garage, arena and theater, then the expansive parking lot there could be developed into retail stores and condos.

The city would continue to operate the Civic Center, Jones said, and the county would have more land for its development. The Civic Center complex is 21.5 acres, while the courthouse property is 2.7 acres.

"I told them, 'We need a large arena and a theater, but with that in mind give me a concept to redevelop the area, do what you want to do with the back part of the lot, and we might be able to talk about swapping properties,'" Jones said.

After the meeting, Chastang said in an interview that he was not interested in the deal. But his fellow commissioners, Stephen Nodine and Mike Dean, said they would be willing to listen to such a proposal.

"I think that's a reasonable compromise to take a look at," Nodine said. The commissioner said he liked that Jones's proposal would move the proposed condominium and retail development away from Christ Church Cathedral and the Museum of Mobile.

Jones and other city officials have said they've had tentative talks about redeveloping part of the Civic Center property in the past, but they've never come to much. Usually, the concepts hinge around building a parking garage behind the center's theater and using the rest of the parking lot land close to Interstate 10 to build something. There's also some chance the city would part with Expo Hall, the small convention space on the west end of the complex. It has gotten little use since the Arthur R. Outlaw Mobile Convention Center opened.
Jones tossed out the land swap idea on Thursday, after Chastang and Stainback presented him with a drawing of a proposed development on the old courthouse site. The plans include a 21-story condominium tower, a fountain pool surrounded by trees, ground-floor retail space, a restaurant, and a new Probate Court building with office space for government and private use.

Jones has been opposed to any development of the property. When he was on the County Commission, the body approved a plan to build a Mardi Gras-themed park with a giant fountain on the land.

The Civic Center was built in 1964 at a cost of $12 million, and the Expo Hall was added in 1973. The city has insured the building for about $40 million, according to a 2005 document.

Advertisement





"I don't know how much that county courthouse site is worth, but the Civic Center is worth a lot more," said City Council President Reggie Copeland.

In the most recent fiscal year, the city has had to pay about $700,000 to subsidize operating losses. And city leaders were told by a consulting group last year that the complex needs millions in renovations and upgrades

The City Council voted last month to spend $180,000 to replace the escalator outside the arena, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Officials are shopping for consultants to redesign the climate control system, an effort that could cut utility costs by allowing managers to heat or cool one part of the complex at a time. The climate control upgrade would likely cost millions, but could pay for itself over time because of reduced power bills.

A consulting group that looked at Civic Center operations said some costs of some renovations were so high that they advised the city not to do the work -- particularly the $10 million to $20 million it could cost to bring the interior of the arena into compliance with disability access laws.

Chastang's plan for the courthouse development is already beginning to fall apart. One of the aspects he described last week was to cancel a $19.5 million project to add three stories to the Probate Court building and instead construct a new edifice that would contain both government and private-sector office space.

To do that, he would need the support of at least one other commissioner, because the Probate Court plan was approved in the county's 2004 Pay-As-You-Go program. Both Nodine and Dean have said they would oppose any move to cancel that plan.

"I was there when we made the decision on building that four-story building for the probate judge, and we owe him that commitment," Dean said.

The plan sounds great to me from the city's prospective, but I don't really see any benefit for the county commission. It sounds like the switch would make the county's development much more difficult and labor intensive. Since they can do whatever they want at the current site without city approval, I see no reason for them to agree to this new swap. I wish it would happen because then we would get redevelopment on the park site as well as the civic center area, 2 for 1. That arena is probably one of the worst in the nation. They propped it up with the Mystics,NBDL, Anything on Ice and monster truck shows to scrape by rather than just fix it a long time ago. Now we have come to a point where it needs to be demolished and start over. In the mean time, USA built the Mitchell Center which competes with it for some functions, is nicer, is not downtown, and is not owned by the city. I like the idea of getting rid of the parking lot and expo hall, which are both big wastes of space, and replacing them with something new and useful. This plan would definitely be the best course of action for Mobile and that area of downtown specifically, but I just can't see it coming to fruition.

[austin356]

The piece of crap civic center needs to be torn down. Hell the land it is on might actually be worth more with it gone (demolition cost).

I would love a new highly urban neighborhood with 3-15 story buildings to be built on the site, which I think is the best thing the city can do downtown in the near future (long term hopefully we can get the docks riverfront property redeveloped).

[nimsjus]

Louisiana is saying they lost the bid for the steel plant. Seeing as we are the only other option one would assume we won te plant. La officials said there incentive package was not enough for TK, and that ours may not be rich enough either. Here is the link: http://www.al.com/news/press-register/index.ssf?/base/news/1175678825225320.xml&coll=3

[BlessedMobile]

I think the development director from Louisiana was really saying that Alabama has the will and the means to land the plant. As he was talking to his legislature I believe he was trying to cover himself when TK announces Alabama as the winner. I am taking a boat tour of the port in the middle of next week and intend to get ask the only real question remaining in my mind which is "how do we best move the slabs from Pinto Island to Calvert". This project will essentially give our area a minimum five year construction boom. At the end of IP's time in Mobile there were 800 company employees so think of this as being the near equivalent of four IP plants coming online in 3 years. Mobile is going to be a Boomtown in 6 months. I'll try to get some good photos of Pinto, Choctaw Point and anything that might be of interest to waterfront followers. Welcome to the new "Steel City" ...Mobile.

[elb401]

LA is still something to compete with. Let’s don’t celebrate just yet. Not until the site is picked.

[Musicisright]

Wow.

[nimsjus]

More courthouse condo political positioning. I found the part about Dean and Nodine not beeing 100% behind the rendering interesting. Apparently they are not sold on something of that scale(which I think was everyone here's initial reaction as well). I also im glad to here the Downtown Alliance is going to come up with a new plan for downtown. It is time to update goals/plans before/during this boom time. I also liked that the city wants to plan for other areas (SpringHill/Florida Street were mentioned below). I think it is great that SpringHill created its own planning/development group. Considering that is were the wealthiest people in town live, it has not always had that feel to it. That group will have money and pull so I would expect big things in that area in the next 10 years. Here's the article.
Chastang extends olive branch on courthouse site
Thursday, April 05, 2007By JEFF AMYStaff Reporter
Mobile County Commission President Juan Chastang used his state of the county speech last year to introduce the idea of a condominium tower on the former site of the county courthouse. Wednesday, he used the same speech to try to cool the dispute over that parcel's use between him and Mobile Mayor Sam Jones.

In doing so, Chastang admitted that his vision may not be built, and that the plan for a Mardi Gras park, approved when Jones occupied Chastang's commission seat, may yet occupy the property.

Jones, in his state of the city speech, made no reference to the courthouse site, including the proposal he made last week that the county trade that lot at Royal and Government streets for part of the Mobile Civic Center property.
Instead, Jones appealed to civic and business leaders for cooperation in improving the worker training done by local schools, colleges and universities, saying that it's a critical need, especially if both the Northrop Grumman/EADS tanker plane plant and the ThyssenKrupp steel mill are built in Mobile County.

Hundreds of listeners gathered over grilled chicken salad and pecan pie at the Arthur R. Outlaw Mobile Convention Center to hear the two speeches. It was the 10th year that the pair of speeches has been presented by the Mobile Area Chamber of Commerce.

Chastang touted the plan for a 21-story condo tower, with ground-level stores, as a way to increase county revenues without raising taxes.

"The development would provide a push for returning downtown to its glory, provide a boost to our convention industry, spearhead retail, encourage more residents to build downtown and give visitors something to do and somewhere to go," Chastang said.

He said the county government would reap $61 million over 30 years from the project.

But Chastang, a Republican giving the speech for the second time, also tried to dispel the idea that he was in a feud with Jones, and indicated he would not stall development of the park if the other two commissioners weren't interested in the condo plan.

"My discussions with the mayor have been pleasant and fun. Let us not pitch this development as being a struggle between the county and the city," Chastang said. "We will work toward a conclusion. If the majority wants a park, then so be it. Let's just move forward in a spirit of cooperation."
In part, the concession may stem from a realization that the other two commissioners, Mike Dean and Stephen Nodine, do not support development on the courthouse site as intensive as seen by a consultant who drew up a plan for the county. They also oppose the consultant's proposed changes in the planned redevelopment of the adjacent courthouse annex.

Chastang also said in his speech that the county wanted to find ways to reduce taxes. Commissioners have been discussing adding a sales tax holiday on hurricane supplies, in addition to the back-to-school tax breaks that began last fall.

"The county understands that low taxes equals a healthy economy," Chastang said.
Jones used much of his speech to ask business and other community leaders to help in a push to better prepare workers in K-12 schools, community colleges and universities.

"We have the potential of over 5,000 new jobs over the next three years," Jones said. "Our ability to provide a prepared work force for those jobs, as well as our present work force, is vital."

Tim Alford, the state's director of work force development, is helping draw up a plan for the Mobile region to improve training. Jones said that plan should be unveiled by mid-summer.

Jones also focused on education in much of his 2006 speech, his first as mayor. After Wednesday's address, he said that he wants the city to assist local schools and colleges, because they are key to worker training and economic success.

Jones told business leaders that the city plans to seek a consultant in the coming months to draw up a new master plan for downtown and some other neighborhood business districts, such as Florida Street and the Spring Hill community.

The downtown planning area would encompass an area beyond the Hank Aaron Loop, going south to around Baltimore Street, west to the Loop area, and north some distance up Martin Luther King Jr. Avenue, Jones said after the speech.

Downtown advocates, in particular, have been calling for a new city plan for the area, saying previous plans, more than a decade old, have become outdated.

[BlessedMobile]

Mayor Jones is a fine man and a capable leader. I know for a fact that the REAL concern he has about education comes from his learning that many young people can't pass a drug test to get any of these good jobs. We must teach them more than reading and writing but that there are consequences for bad choices. Our school board sure doesn't help much. I sometime wonder how many of them could pass a drug test after hearing some of their decisions. Oh yea, and about TK, we are in the drivers seat and heading down the home stretch....in first place!

[austin356]

Does anyone have any information on the Broad St. restoration project?

If this project turns out as talked about a while back, then I think it will have a dramatic impact on intown development.

I see that as a big deal, also that corridor should be used for a Streetcar in the future (not viable now).

[pboo74]

I will be comin back home this weekend,and will be strolling downtown to see what's all been done r what's going to be done...welcome back...:)

[BamaGrad04]

The piece of crap civic center needs to be torn down. Hell the land it is on might actually be worth more with it gone (demolition cost).

I would love a new highly urban neighborhood with 3-15 story buildings to be built on the site, which I think is the best thing the city can do downtown in the near future (long term hopefully we can get the docks riverfront property redeveloped).


They should have torn that monstrosity down and put Hank Aaron Stadium on the site. Something about it being on 65 just doesn't work for me. The changing skyline would make an impressive backdrop for the fans.

In any case, something's got to be done there. As I see it, the MCC is not a viable choice for events anymore, outside of Mardi Gras balls and monster truck races. Heck, the Mitchell Center at USA gets many more concerts and events now. I guess I'm not real sure what I'd like to see done there now. A new arena would be great, but would it be needed? Is there another suitable location for a new arena?

[Exodus]

I think an arena downtown is a good thing, they just need a new one to attract people and events back downtown again. Personally I don't have anything against the current arena.

[nimsjus]

They should have torn that monstrosity down and put Hank Aaron Stadium on the site. Something about it being on 65 just doesn't work for me. The changing skyline would make an impressive backdrop for the fans.

In any case, something's got to be done there. As I see it, the MCC is not a viable choice for events anymore, outside of Mardi Gras balls and monster truck races. Heck, the Mitchell Center at USA gets many more concerts and events now. I guess I'm not real sure what I'd like to see done there now. A new arena would be great, but would it be needed? Is there another suitable location for a new arena?

I had the same thought today too. I got to day dreaming about how much better our ballpark would have been downtown. Even if it was at Texas St (which was the other possible site), that would be a better location in hid sight. That Texas St site would be ideal now, especially with talk of land switches and condos in the area between downtown and Texas St. Montgomery's new downtown ballpark is amazing and puts ours to shame. We should have replaced or updated the Civic Center back in the day. Now it is too far gone and Mitchell Center is nicer. It would be nice to have a city owned arena, especially one downtown.

[nimsjus]

Im home from Auburn this weekend for Easter with the fam. If you see two guys wondering around downtown oogling at all the development, it will be me and pboo

[nimsjus]

Will somone explain to me the process of posting pictures to the forum? I took a bunch downtown today, but I have no idea how to get them up here. I know there is something about having them hosted or something and I don't anything about that either. Someone point me in the right direction.

[Scottybo]

Will somone explain to me the process of posting pictures to the forum? I took a bunch downtown today, but I have no idea how to get them up here. I know there is something about having them hosted or something and I don't anything about that either. Someone point me in the right direction.

Go to ImageShack.com and register. Then upload your photos. Come here and click the Insert Image button that is 2 buttons to the right of the Insert URL button, it's the one that looks like a mountain landscape. Just copy and paste the url (http://imageshack.com/yourimage.jpg as an example, must end in .jpg, .gif, etc..) of each of your photos and click OK. Do that for each picture.

[Bama_75]

My wife and I were walking around downtown yesterday and we walked over to the Cooper River Side Park. It was locked up. Any ideas why its closed? There were some inside the park, that looked homeless. I seen how they got around, but I wasn't about to try and get my german shep around.

[pkp]

What time did you go? As underused as the park was (a lovely park except for a few needed repairs, by the way) the cruise terminal and apparantly fictional Maritime Center have made it even more underused. The southern side of the park looks like a mix of a construction zone and parking lot more than a park. The biggest problem is one that not only affects the park, but all of downtown, and that is Water Street and how difficult it is to cross.

[elb401]

yeah....thats weird that it is closed. Maybe with the CSX building being torn down. but its been gone for a few weeks, right?

[Bama_75]

We were there around 5. We walked down to the Churh Street graveyard and it said closes at 4 and it was like 5:30-6 and still open.

[nimsjus]

So I have a ton of pictures from the weekend. I will start with the pictures of projects that I found signs for or knew about. I apologize if I missed some yall wanted to see. I didn't think to take a list of projects with me. I'll save the other pictures for later in the week.
Matress Factory
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w222/nimsjus/IMG_2560.jpg

Nameless Project near Wintzells on Dauphin
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w222/nimsjus/IMG_2590.jpg
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w222/nimsjus/IMG_2589.jpg

Crescent Theatre(Condos and independent movie theater)
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w222/nimsjus/IMG_2603.jpg

St. Emanuel Place
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w222/nimsjus/IMG_2605.jpg

On Bienville(Engineering firm is up top I believe... Can't remember is Hancock Bank is opening a branch in this lobby or St. Emanuel Place lobby)
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w222/nimsjus/IMG_2604.jpg

The Carriage Works (On Dauphin in the vicinity of Wintzell's)
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w222/nimsjus/IMG_2592.jpg
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w222/nimsjus/IMG_2591.jpg

Random Condo Project down in Conti/Conception vicinity(I think... Building used to be Vision's which I think was a gay bar)
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w222/nimsjus/IMG_2577.jpg

Loft/Retail/Office conversion on Goverment near the Tunnel
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w222/nimsjus/IMG_2575.jpg


Ill do some BattleHouse/ RSA Tower picture tomorrow.

[austin356]

:notacrook: :notacrook: :tup: :tup: :tup:

[ExpatBaman]

Very nice, nimsjus, thanks.

[pboo74]

nimsjus,hey nice pics i had a blasts this weekend in my hometown i stayed at the radison downtown and as yourself took a nice tour of downtown but left my camera at home in huntsville:( ....

[pboo74]

is the carriage way project going to be built from the ground up?and where will it be?

[Musicisright]

is the carriage way project going to be built from the ground up?and where will it be?
It looks like it'll be built from the ground up on the Southwest corner of Dauphin and Washington. I didn't even know about those.


I love the Mattress Factory lofts. I didn't realize they're going to have balconies...

[CottonCity251]

Beautiful pictures.

[Bama_75]

State of The City speech from the City of Mobile web page link. It sounds good, but read for yourself.

http://www.cityofmobile.org/news.php?view=full&news=1021[/URL]

[nimsjus]

I'm posting some RSA Tower/Battlehouse pictures on the thread specifically for the project. I'l' put the rest of my downtown pictures on here tomorrow.

[pkp]

Hancock is going into St. Emanuel lobby

[pboo74]

It looks like it'll be built from the ground up on the Southwest corner of Dauphin and Washington. I didn't even know about those.


I love the Mattress Factory lofts. I didn't realize they're going to have balconies...

thanks musicisright.

[Musicisright]

State of The City speech from the City of Mobile web page link. It sounds good, but read for yourself.

http://www.cityofmobile.org/news.php?view=full&news=1021[/URL]

Gotta love people who type in all caps. I liked this: "SO LET ME COMMIT TO YOU TODAY THAT I WILL MAKE EVERY EFFORT TO SEE TO IT THAT OUR CITY WILL NOT BOG DOWN BECAUSE OF INACTION."

The video's pretty good, too.

[Bama_75]

He sounds like he is ready and going for it. Maybe he will do as he says.

[CottonCity251]

Let's hope so. This year the city is suppose to release plans for a new annexation attempt, how do you all feel about this? Will it work?

[elb401]

I don't know I'm nervous about this one. they need to use the one that John Peavey made. it was perfect. the city needs to treat this like an economic development project. include tax breaks and capital improvements beyond Cody road. The last polls to be taken in the area see that annexation is a lot more likely to happen this time around. after all it only lost by 48 votes last back in the 1990s. a lot has changed. Another indication in the polls is that west Mobile does not want to become their own city.

[nimsjus]

I can't figure this one out. The people who are against annexation are always very vocal, so much so that they seem to be an overwhleming majority. When voting comes around turns out they win by 48 votes out of thousands. I don't think it helps the annexation cause that one of their representatives is raising hell about the city trying to annex the airport. I see no incentive to join the city unless Mayor Jones gives them some major breaks on taxes, lots of upgrades(roads, capital improvements, developments, etc.). I would love to annex any property into the city limits, especially the Schillinger Rd corridor. I have always hated all the residential development between Cody and Snow Roads. Those people mooch of Mobile without contributing anything to the city. Hopefully this go round will be successful. If not, I think you may see the city look north and south to annex in the future. These efforts would be helped if we would clean up the areas just inside the northern and southern city limits. Imagine all the waterfront development that could benefit Mobile proper if we cleaned up the "down the bay" area and annexed further south. People are paying big money to live on the water. That part of Mobile is full of waterways, and some of Mobile's poorest live in the B.C. Rain area because it has become a rough area. The Brookley area also wastes alot of waterfront that could be put to good use by developers, which would bring in bigtime property taxes. I think southern annexation could be more beneficial in the long term than western annexation

[eastbayblu]

So I saw the rendering for the Hampton Inn downtown at Royal and Conti...the Main entrance will be there at the corner, and it will be 7 stories high...and the best part...it has GREAT balconies right on the parade route.

[nimsjus]

Where'd you find this rendering? I can't wait for that project to get started. Dauphin was the starting point for all the revitalization and now it is moving nicely. It is time to start moving away from Dauphin with some of this growth. Conti with this Hapton Inn is a good place to start.

[pkp]

Has there been another Hampton rendering? The one I saw was just the one that is in downtown Memphis.

[nimsjus]

From the real estate column of the Press Register...
The Mobile Arts & Sports Association , the parent organization of the Senior Bowl , paid $425,000 for a three-story, 6,000-square-foot building at the southwest corner of Dauphin and St. Emanuel streets, according to John Peebles of Grubb & Ellis/Peebles & Cam eron , which worked for the buyers. The arts and sports group plans to renovate the 1890s building and put the Mo bile Sports Hall of Fame Muse um on the ground floor, Peebles said. M.J. Baxter of Baxter & Associates represented the seller.
Always nice to add something to do downtown. Can't picture the building, or what was in it before. Also did anyone make it down to ArtsAlive? Just curious as to how the turnout was. Wish I would have been in town. I think arts and culture are something Mobile can stress to make itself more unique. It isn't my favorite (I'm more of a sports guy) but I think it is important to support and can make Mobile a really interesting place. All th other succesful midsized coastal cites are know for these things(Savannah, Charleston, etc) while those that dont have it are just kind of boring and unnoticed.

[pkp]

It was a copy shop.

[Alxx611]

yea I really love the art community Mobile has been growing. I'm an art person, so i really appreciate all the galleries popping up around lower dauphin and by cathedral square as well as all these art walks, shows and festivals to go to.

[Musicisright]

I'm surprised, too, by all the art galleries I see downtown. So many.

I went to Arts Alive Saturday. It was absolutely perfect weather. I was really surprised to see so many people. Really a lot to see and a lot to do. I believe last year's was named one of the top 10 tourism attractions in Alabama. I feel like this is going to grow into one of Mobile's best assets.

[pkp]

FYI - here is the link for the urban devolpment RFP the city has put out

http://www.cityofmobile.org/announcement_files/final_rfp_old_mobile_plan_41207.pdf

[nimsjus]

Nice link on the cities request for proposal. Here is part of a story from the newest Lagniappe about a new downtown coffee shop. These are the baby steps needed to start drawing people/retail back downtown.
Coffee is a two-way street

Royal Street is getting coffee, right next to the Compass Bank building – no lease has been signed but negotiations are underway. Named Serda’s Coffee, John Serda has two other sites in mind should this one not come to fruition. John began his coffee entrepreneurship while on a study abroad program in Costa Rica and opened up an Internet café while there with a friend.

Today he has one store in Tillman’s Corner. Downtown, he will be serving coffee, tea, ice cream, paninis and wraps, smoothies, beer and wine. The paninis and wraps alone sound like a welcome tasty addition to downtown. He is committed to helping out the local music scene, and plays and sells local music in his stores. He plans at first, to see how it goes, opening Monday through Thursday 6 a.m. to 10 p.m. and until 11 Friday and Saturday’s.

Please listen here – many, many of us have desired a true, local coffee shop on this side of Government. No matter where he locates downtown, those of us who work and live down here must support it. I for one plan to camp out on Saturday mornings to read the paper and drink copious amounts of coffee. Check out his site at serdascoffee.com

[pkp]

There already is kind of coffee place on Dauphin, but they have lousy hours.

[pkp]

Is this the building Johnson Controls was in? Damn, I was considering leasing that as a boutique space for my wife.

[BamaGrad04]

Here's the building....

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q196/BamaGrad04/serdas.jpg

On the corner of Dauphin and Royal; I'm guessing right next to the Three Sisters, across from Van Antwerp.

[nimsjus]

There already is kind of coffee place on Dauphin, but they have lousy hours.

Yeah there is Mostly Muffins, but like you said they have terrible hours. Basically alot of stuff opens only for downtown workers and then they are not open at night or on weekends. This place sounds like a lot better option. If you check out there website(linked in the article) you can get a sense of what they offer( food, hours, music, style/atmosphere) based on there less cool Tillman's Corner strip mall locale. It will help them that the store is located between two 4 star hotels on its street along with dowtown workers/residents.

[pkp]

I drink a ton of coffee - about three of those 5 cup pots in my office everyday. But I would hit this place to support it - its 2 blocks from work and a 10 min bike ride/25 min walk from home. I hope it does well - guess I will need to look at another spot for store.

[nimsjus]

From the Press Register...
Hotel developers from Tuscaloosa paid $1 million for more than half an acre at the corner of Royal and Conti streets and plan to build a 150-room Hampton Inn & Suit es , according to court records and developers. Windwood Mobile plans to start construction soon on the seven-story hotel, which should open in the summer of 2008, according to developer Mike Cowart of Cowart Hospitality Services in Birmingham. The hotel owners plan to lease the Republic parking lot at Royal, Government and St. Emanual streets from Meaher LLC for guest parking, he said. Joe Davis and Charlie Gray of Surety Land Title handled the closing.
I was wondering when this would get started/finished. Glad to hear they wont waste part of the property with surface lots/parking garages. We have plenty of downtown parking that goes unused. When I first read that I was hoping it would be one of the really bad looking lots, and that they could force Republice to spruce it up, but I think that is one of the nicer looking lots already with landscping and iron fence.

[SouthSky]

Here's the building....

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q196/BamaGrad04/serdas.jpg

On the corner of Dauphin and Royal; I'm guessing right next to the Three Sisters, across from Van Antwerp.

Is it just me or does that third story make this building so much cooler? I wish all the buildings down this way were all at least three stories as it enhances the feeling of being "downtown" in a city.

[elb401]

a lot the 19th century buildings are 3 to 4 stories. but as they were destroyed (through fires or the 50s and 60s) they were replaced with buildings with less stories.

[nimsjus]

This is all just pie in the sky but if anyone has a minute I would love to hear other opinions. My question is: What is keeping Mobile from having something like this- http://www.bridgestreethuntsville.com/ ? Downtown is primed for redevelopment right now and believe it or not there are actually large downtown parcels that could be made available(Civic Center, Texas Street Park). I know RSA Tower and Battle House projects have breathed new life in to downtown, but something like this would be taking it to a whole new level. I feel like if Mobile doesn't seize this momentum(sp?) while it has it then it will just pass us by. If we don't act now someone will do something similar to this, but it won't be in Mobile proper. One of the surburban areas will get it and Mobile will miss out on a golden opportunity. What do yall think about this?

[pboo74]

This is all just pie in the sky but if anyone has a minute I would love to hear other opinions. My question is: What is keeping Mobile from having something like this- http://www.bridgestreethuntsville.com/ ? Downtown is primed for redevelopment right now and believe it or not there are actually large downtown parcels that could be made available(Civic Center, Texas Street Park). I know RSA Tower and Battle House projects have breathed new life in to downtown, but something like this would be taking it to a whole new level. I feel like if Mobile doesn't seize this momentum(sp?) while it has it then it will just pass us by. If we don't act now someone will do something similar to this, but it won't be in Mobile proper. One of the surburban areas will get it and Mobile will miss out on a golden opportunity. What do yall think about this?

Yeah,I think you r right mobile does yeally need something like this,local investor need to take a stand and also mobile period'mayor jones'county commision'downtown alliance' etc.. need's to take great strides in getting aggressive in recruiting out of town developers to make things like this happen....And to make owners of abandon buildings downtown clean 'em up, r get rid of the buildings by selling to investors and stop holding on to the destress property?that's a really big problem downtown.....

[nimsjus]

Now for some actual news, and good news at that. I really hope this passes. Mobile needs more nice residential areas near downtown. Plus these old homes are so amazing and should not be left for crackdealers, etc.
Advisory body approves Oakleigh expansion
Final decision is up to Mobile City Council; vote remains unscheduled Tuesday, May 08, 2007By JEFF AMYStaff Reporter
An advisory body approved Monday night a significant expansion of the area included in the Oakleigh Garden Historic District.

It would be the largest expansion of historic protection in years.

The new territory would include areas along Broad Street from Church Street south to Virginia Street. It would also include houses on Texas and Fry streets that are north of Magnolia Cemetery and south of Oakleigh's current boundary.

The Mobile Historic Development Commission voted to add the new territory. The ultimate decision is up to the City Council, which has yet to schedule a vote.

Councilman William Carroll, who represents the area, has been supportive so far but said he will vote against it if a majority of property owners and residents oppose the plan. Other council members are likely to follow Carroll's lead.

"I've had way more positives than negatives," Carroll said Monday of residents' responses. But he said that few residents overall have voiced opinions. He said a second public meeting is likely before the council votes.

Unlike in 2002, when the city proposed creating a Midtown historic district, residents will not vote directly.

The Midtown district failed, falling just short of the 60 percent majority needed. Since then, the city has added the Campground area, southwest of the corner of Martin Luther King Jr. Avenue and Ann Street, to the federal list of historic districts but didn't include local protections, which govern the exterior look of properties.

The Oakleigh proposal has been greeted cautiously by residents, many of whom were concerned that they would be ordered to make costly repairs or upgrades to their houses or face burdensome new restrictions on their properties.

"I have a feeling if this passes, they're going to be right out here telling me I have to tear this down and repaint that," said Tom Godwin, owner of Friendly Pawn at 312 S. Broad St.
Proponents downplayed those fears at a meeting last week, saying the Historic Development Commission, the city agency that enforces historic district rules, does not plan to try to force property owners to make upgrades.

"We're not going to be starting with someone who needs a little maintenance," said Devereaux Bemis, the commission's executive director.

Bemis told the roughly 100 attendees at the meeting that approval of most work was relatively routine and that the commission had stock plans to help people preserve or enhance historic buildings.

Supporters also emphasized that restrictions meant residents would have less cause to worry about a neighbor doing something undesirable.

One reason for the proposal is the Bring Back Broad initiative, a plan to make changes to Broad Street in an effort to slow down traffic and make the street more attractive.

Palmer Hamilton, an Oakleigh resident and redeveloper, is the prime mover behind Bring Back Broad, which is being financed with $2 million in federal money that Hamilton helped secure.

Hamilton said the project will be enhanced if the historic properties bordering the street are protected and can't be developed into something that would contrast with the street improvements and surrounding neighborhood.

As plans were being drawn for Bring Back Broad, a developer proposed building a convenience store and gas station on an empty lot near the corner of Broad and Elmira streets.

"I would say that was certainly a bit of a wake-up call," said Jaime Betbeze, an Oakleigh representative to the historic commission.

The developer has since dropped the plans in the face of neighborhood opposition. The other main reason cited by expansion backers is that the new lines would clear up confusion along Texas Street about which parcels are in the district and which are not.

Right now, both sides of the west end of Texas are in the district, as well as parts of three other blocks of the north side of Texas. All parcels bordering Texas Street would be taken in, as well as all parcels along Fry Street north of Magnolia Cemetery.

In recent years, property values in Oakleigh have grown strongly, which backers attribute to the historic protections. One study has shown that properties in Alabama historic districts have appreciated more rapidly than all properties in the same general areas, a finding touted by preservationists.

Advertisement





Increasing values, though, raise fears of gentrification -- that poorer, black residents will be pushed out by richer, white newcomers.

Carroll addressed that fear at the meeting last Tuesday, saying he didn't want this to be like the mass displacements and demolitions that accompanied urban renewal in the Down the Bay neighborhood just east of Oakleigh.

"Do not get it in your minds that we are trying to move you out, come in and displace you, make you fix your houses immediately," Carroll said last week. His house is inside the current Oakleigh boundaries.

On Monday, Carroll said some homeowners had gotten letters from HomeVestors, a company that buys houses and tries to resell them for a profit. He said those letters, arriving while the expansion was being considered, had caused further concerns about displacement.

Hamilton, the leader of a group that has renovated some Oakleigh homes and built new ones in historic styles, said improving housing close to downtown is important for Mobile's tax base and long-term viability. He said some people who move in have higher incomes than those who moved out.

"I think there's a perception of gentrification, and not that some of that isn't going on, but I think it's overstated," Hamilton said.

[elb401]

The thing about that project in Huntsville, is that it is such a FAKE downtown that is coping other cities. It doesn't really even match the culture of that area. Mobile needs a project like the Savannah river landing project. it is incredible. it is an extension of downtown savannah Ga. Savannah gets a great new project and a whole extension of downtown along with keeping its great culture. Mobile doesn't neeed an extension but a project like the one in savannah could do some serious infill. then expansion later.

[nimsjus]

I guess I wasn't as excited about the pre-fab, generic, forcedness of it as much as the size/scope. They have managed to create a setup where upscale, highly sought after, national retail/dining are fighting to get into their downtown vicinity. The Savannah project is great too along with King Street in Charleston. I just wish we could have something similar and I can't quite figure out why. We are just as historic, similar sized or larger, with just as much natural beauty. Why is Mobile not the southern coastal destination that the others are. I think a project like the ones mentioned above would be a huge step towards that goal. You have to one up anything offered in the suburbs in order to lure the folks back downtown. With the explosion in Baldwin County, Downtown is now very centrally located relative to the population and it is still less than 10-20 minutes from the outskirts of the Metro suburbs( Fairhope/Daphne/SF, Saraland, West Mobile).

[elb401]

You are right about that! One of the problems is that the owners of the parking lots wont sell because of the money they are making off of them. Maybe there could be an extra tax on them or something. Also we are lacking a lot of water front space near our downtown. I think the orange grove area and the blocks west of detonti all the way back to dauphin could be good for a project like that. a lot of the buildings are not historic. tear those down and build new......maybe even replicate what used to be there. oh our city leaders need to contact these people and offer incentives for them to build. these kind of projects are just as important as steel mills and corporate headquaters.

[rabbi2007]

I have read about ten years now that the City of Mobile is going to build a National Maritime Museum and a high speed ferry across the bay. Are they building the museum ? We are planning a vacation along the Gulf and would love to stop in Mobile but have No interest in the Battleship.