[pkp]

That is awesome! Do you have any scans from it? I would love to see it.

no. it is a poster size map. $15 from the USA archives. cool though because my house is actually on it. the streets with car service are marked with "double lines" instead of single street lines.

[nimsjus]

Seems like the most of the development is spreading more north and south (a couple of blocks either way of Dauphin) staying close to the CBD. Not a lot of development spreading out to the far western edge (Cedar, Warren, Dearborn Washington, Scott, Bayou). Hopefully Bring Back Broad will have a positive effect on those areas. I know there are 10-20 historic homes on various streets within that area that would be prime for redvelopment. Alot of them are smaller, which would make them perfect for young professionals and empty nesters, which seems to be the target audience for downtown residnetial projects. I also love the idea of the medians for Governement if they could be squeezed in. Throw in some azaleas and that area would feel much more pedestrian ( and look nicer too). Government, Broad, and Water are definitely the biggest berriers to downtown expansion. Government would have to be addressed if any kind of major redevelopment happened on the Civic Center site and Water will have to be addressed when the Maritime Museum and former CSX site are developed.

[10101000]

I am with you, I would love to see some amazing landscape down there. I see some now, but breathtaking! Something exotic, different, provocative.

[bayou15]

Palm Trees Please! looks way better than those crappy azaleas which only bloom once a year.


PKP ...how tall is the new hotel going to be ?

[CottonCity251]

Palm Trees Please! looks way better than those crappy azaleas which only bloom once a year.


PKP ...how tall is the new hotel going to be ?

I agree with bayou...the city needs to put up more palm trees. The 30-40ft. ones, like those along the avenues in LA, would fit nice on Broad St. while the much smaller ones would fit beautifully along Government and Water streets. I hope they don't make the Bring Back Broad St. look cheap because of the area.

[Port_of_Bama]

I agree with bayou...the city needs to put up more palm trees. The 30-40ft. ones, like those along the avenues in LA, would fit nice on Broad St. while the much smaller ones would fit beautifully along Government and Water streets. I hope they don't make the Bring Back Broad St. look cheap because of the area.


King Palms( like the the obes that line Canal street in NOLA) would be a good look on Water and even Broad street. Street cars would add to that Mobile charm !!

Bayou kinda have a ggood point becasue the Azalia median that is on Springhill AVE is ok but I have never seen it bloom and they just planet those things about 3 or 4 years ago. They said it suppose to be 16 differnt kinds I havn`t seen 1.

I aslo wish that more of the streets in Mobile would look more like the ones in Fort Conde Village (red bricked). Imagine that being part of Bring back Broad street with Palms and streets cars !!

[MobileLSUboy2005]

instead of palms...why don't we put something native to the area, that would characterize our city better?

[DruidCity]

King palms might have trouble in the very coldest winters, as Mobile can get a little colder than New Orleans.
Palmetto trees do extremely well, though, and are indeed southeastern natives. Jelly palms give a very nice effect where you want something a little lower and wider.

[nimsjus]

instead of palms...why don't we put something native to the area, that would characterize our city better?

Thats why I went with azaleas(even if they are only in bloom for 1 month out of the year). I would love huge oaks down the middle of all of the streets mentioned, but those aren't really conducive to a narrow median. Dogwoods, magnolias, crate myrtles would all be a lot more "Mobile" than 50 ft palm trees. Regardless, I would take a median with anything growing in it over a 6 continuous lanes concrete.

[elb401]

remember..... Mobile was built over a swamp that was filled with small palms. and in the 1900 -1920s some of the streets used to be lined with huge palm trees. the only ones left from there are on spring hill ave. in ashland place near the visitation monestary. The city sold the rest in the depression to raise money. i like the king palm idea. lets stay away from the crate myrtle. But palm trees or not.....I would like medians better too.

[spookyapp]

You do realize that if there were a median on Govt St downtown that there would have to be breaks in it VERY frequently. Installing medians would cause traffic nightmares because people would be U-turning to get into their neighborhood or business (see This story (http://www.wkrg.com/local/article/greeno_road_woes/15274/) ). This isn't Airport Blvd, the street density downtown is much higher than anywhere in the city. Broad St works because it isn't cutting directly into the city.

And palm trees? Are you serious? Why would you want to take away from the natural beauty of the oaks?! Palms would wholly conflict with the oaks. :koko:

[pkp]

You do realize that if there were a median on Govt St downtown that there would have to be breaks in it VERY frequently. Installing medians would cause traffic nightmares because people would be U-turning to get into their neighborhood or business (see This story (http://www.wkrg.com/local/article/greeno_road_woes/15274/) ). This isn't Airport Blvd, the street density downtown is much higher than anywhere in the city. Broad St works because it isn't cutting directly into the city.

And palm trees? Are you serious? Why would you want to take away from the natural beauty of the oaks?! Palms would wholly conflict with the oaks. :koko:

I disagree, I am either walking or riding down government everyday during rush hour. Nearly all the traffic is through traffic. There are probably three streets that have any real traffic turning (maybe 3 cars at the most waiting to turn). I would be in favor of having a small turning lane for those streets, and simply cross overs (would allow folks to go half way) for the other streets - this could in fact be one all the way to the loop without effecting traffic much. This would not be taking away any travel lanes. Not to compare to NOLA again, but Poydras is a good example of this. It's median is not wide like canals, but it doesn't cause any turning problems. I am not in favor of any high growing vegetation.

[pkp]

Palm Trees Please! looks way better than those crappy azaleas which only bloom once a year.


PKP ...how tall is the new hotel going to be ?

I am really not sure - but its not a highrise - 6-8 floors if I had to guess, which is fine with me. I just wish the other space was anything put surface parking.

[DruidCity]

I am not in favor of any high growing vegetation.


Mobile marijuana median :haha:

[Muskavon]

Why not a crapload of Yucca plants? We had them all over my neighborhood as a kid. I learned they keep punks (me at the time) from screwing around where we aren't supposed to and ruin the day of anyone trying to throw or especially kick a football (a common problem of Alabama or Auburn fans). Advantages: no water required, no jaywalkers, bikers learn a hard lesson when they fall off and the road dept. has an excuse not to trim near them (money saved). Also, anyone ejected into the median from a car in a wreck can be presumed dead one way or another saving precious search & rescue funds. They also spread easily. All you need is one thorn to start the median and the rest takes care of itself. Forever.

[BlessedMobile]

I am really not sure - but its not a highrise - 6-8 floors if I had to guess, which is fine with me. I just wish the other space was anything put surface parking.

I know that Republic Parking will manage the lot for them during the day and guest will park there at night. Even though it won't be a parking deck it will look better than the general lots downtown. I was informed that there are plans to someday put a parking deck on the Republic lot by the Battle House. The lawyers at Lyons, Pipes own it and will have to commit to the 15-20 million to build it; they're are not yet committed! There are plans already drawn for the project.

[bayou15]

I love azaleas, but again if you dont keep them up they will look shabby. Palmettos would look great also, they are piled up down here on da island. When i mention the palms . I also thought of the ones down canal in Nawlins. I punched one , one time when da Saints lost, and poo did it hurt. To me palms in a city mean ,royalty ,progression(sp) , a city that is moving forward.

Would it be bad to say Old Mobile = azaleas and oaks? I guess not if u threw in some street cars ,now that would look good! example, The Garden District in Nawlins. You cant tell me that Dauphin, Springhill , gov't or Royal in Mobile couldnt look this good or better than St. Charles AVE? ;)..........later.....Happy 4th to y'all:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

[Musicisright]

Does anybody have any info on the supposed restaurant that's going in at the top of the RSA tower? Did someone here mention that, or was I dreaming?

[10101000]

I did not hear about that, but I did see Mobile and the skyline on GMA this morning. Unfortunately, the story was about a woman that shot a man in the leg. The picture looked familiar though.

[elb401]

That hotel restraurant isn't going to happen. the floor is for rent right now. who knows though. maybe in the future.

Oh and about the palms on government......that would be stupid. I think everyone was talking about putting them on water street. Its the type of palm at the GMAO building.

I really wish that they would put facades on the parking garages and make them look like historic buildings.

[pkp]

I know that Republic Parking will manage the lot for them during the day and guest will park there at night. Even though it won't be a parking deck it will look better than the general lots downtown. I was informed that there are plans to someday put a parking deck on the Republic lot by the Battle House. The lawyers at Lyons, Pipes own it and will have to commit to the 15-20 million to build it; they're are not yet committed! There are plans already drawn for the project.

Oh - I am sure it will be an improvement. I am not sure how it is going to work for Banktrust to use the lot during the day and the hotel at night. Being an extended stay, I would think a lot of those folks are working downtown and they would want to leave their cars during the day?

[10101000]

That hotel restraurant isn't going to happen. the floor is for rent right now. who knows though. maybe in the future.

Oh and about the palms on government......that would be stupid. I think everyone was talking about putting them on water street. Its the type of palm at the GMAO building.

I really wish that they would put facades on the parking garages and make them look like historic buildings.

Glad your happy about all this!

[10101000]

Mobilians please contribute to my thread, thanks!

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=153761

[elb401]

ha....sorry if I came off a little mad or something.

Hey Tim, do you have any updated pictures?

[10101000]

I thought it was funny!

[10101000]

Everyone have a happy forth, I am on my way to Mobile.

[The 251]

It doesnt have to be huge palm trees or azalea bushes... Heck, why not just plant some nice flowers in the median. Anything will look better than what we have now, especially on Broad St :) Trees tend to block the view of oncoming traffic anyway

[BlessedMobile]

Oh - I am sure it will be an improvement. I am not sure how it is going to work for Banktrust to use the lot during the day and the hotel at night. Being an extended stay, I would think a lot of those folks are working downtown and they would want to leave their cars during the day?

The new lot by the hotel will be for the general public I think. Nothing was said about being specifically for BankTrust. You may well be right about people leaving their cars in the lot during the day but I suspect that anyone working more than a 1/4 mile away will take their car...exercise not being a daily routine of many business people.

[NitekKetin]

The median of the Hank Aaron Loop should be flanked with people holding day-glo signs for local and national retailers that are in the midst of a 'going out of business sale'. A similar beautification project has done wonders for Airport Boulevard near I-65.

[CottonCity251]

The median of the Hank Aaron Loop should be flanked with people holding day-glo signs for local and national retailers that are in the midst of a 'going out of business sale'. A similar beautification project has done wonders for Airport Boulevard near I-65.

Yeah right. Airport Blvd. needs some help also.

[pboo74]

I was wondering has anyone been to the meetings they've been having about some ideas for downtown?I really would like to see mobile get an aquarium and also to get a riverboat to have lunch cruises,for us as well as for vistors to sightseeing and night dinner cruises for downtown, please bring some of these ideas up.I think that would be awesome along with maybe a zoo,riverwalk,with electric shops,comedy club to bring major acts to the city such as,mike epps,jeff dunham,katt williams,arnez j,etc.....what do you guys think i have brung up these ideas b4 but i wish this would all come to light soon....

[CottonCity251]

I was wondering has anyone been to the meetings they've been having about some ideas for downtown?I really would like to see mobile get an aquarium and also to get a riverboat to have lunch cruises,for us as well as for vistors to sightseeing and night dinner cruises, please bring some of these ideas up.I think that would be awesome along with maybe a zoo,riverwalk,with electric shops,comedy club to bring major acts to the city such as,mike epps,jeff dunham,katt williams,arnez j,etc.....what do you guys think i have brung up these ideas b4 but i wish this would all come to light soon....

I thought we had the Cotton Blossom that offered river cruises and sightseeing?? I do wish we had a aquarium downtown. Haven't been to any of the meetings concerning the plan for Old Mobile. Although I do hope someone mentioned downtown being open 24/7 or at least 6. I think more people will move down there if things of necessity were open 24 hrs(fastfood joints, corner stores, and a damn autoparts place)....how convenient is it when everything down there closes before everything everywhere else in the city.:shrug:

I would also like to see Mobile with a type of canal system similar to, I guess, the Riverwalk in San Antonio or canals of Venice and Birmingham, U.K.

[pboo74]

I thought we had the Cotton Blossom that offered river cruises and sightseeing?? I do wish we had a aquarium downtown. Haven't been to any of the meetings concerning the plan for Old Mobile. Although I do hope someone mentioned downtown being open 24/7 or at least 6. I think more people will move down there if things of necessity were open 24 hrs(fastfood joints, corner stores, and a damn autoparts place)....how convenient is it when everything down there closes before everything everywhere else in the city.:shrug:

I would also like to see Mobile with a type of canal system similar to, I guess, the Riverwalk in San Antonio or canals of Venice and Birmingham, U.K.
yes i agree with you'I don't think the cotton blossom runs downtown?

[10101000]

ha....sorry if I came off a little mad or something.

Hey Tim, do you have any updated pictures?

I wanted to take some this weekend when I was home, but I did not get a chance to! All the power was out on the eastern shore for a while on Saturday evening and that was when I had free time to take the photos. I could not charge my camera. I will get around to it at the end of the month. I got a new camera and I want to try it out.

[nimsjus]

There is an article in today's PR about moving Middle Bay Lighthouse to Battleship Park to preserve it and protect it from the abuse it takes out in the middle of the bay. I don't have anything against the Battleship Park idea, but I think it would be alot cooler if it could be placed in the area that will eventually be the Maritime Museum.I kind of see it as an outdoor exhibit connecting the Maritime Museum to Cooper Riverside Park. People already go to the Battleship so another exhibit there does not really provide that much additional benefit (not to mention the lighthouse doesn't really go with the other military exhibits). I think it would be nice to have something else across Water Street to pull people across to the waterfront in downtown, plus it would go great with the shipping/port emphasis that the Maritime Museum is focusing on. Any thoughts??

[phoenixboi08]

I thought we had the Cotton Blossom that offered river cruises and sightseeing?? I do wish we had a aquarium downtown. Haven't been to any of the meetings concerning the plan for Old Mobile. Although I do hope someone mentioned downtown being open 24/7 or at least 6. I think more people will move down there if things of necessity were open 24 hrs(fastfood joints, corner stores, and a damn autoparts place)....how convenient is it when everything down there closes before everything everywhere else in the city.:shrug:

I would also like to see Mobile with a type of canal system similar to, I guess, the Riverwalk in San Antonio or canals of Venice and Birmingham, U.K.

The riverwalk in San Antonio is AWESOME!!!! So amazing!

[Port_of_Bama]

I`m proud of the Port cities economic progress but it time for the city to lure in other amentities as well such as a river walk and other things. AWhy would people want to go Dt if everything shuts down earlier an no hang out spots. The Market in the square has been a sucess but i`m shur we can get other things as well.

[Port_of_Bama]

That hotel restraurant isn't going to happen. the floor is for rent right now. who knows though. maybe in the future.

Oh and about the palms on government......that would be stupid. I think everyone was talking about putting them on water street. Its the type of palm at the GMAO building.

I really wish that they would put facades on the parking garages and make them look like historic buildings.


The Palms that are in front of GMAO are king palms

[MobileMoving]

Downtown Mobile had a beautiful light display on the spires for the 4th of July!
http://picasaweb.google.com/tim.m.parker/AroundMobile/photo#5220644304740191634
http://lh3.ggpht.com/tim.m.parker/SHN0VLFT7TI/AAAAAAAAAU0/JnDFXYmaPMg/P1010306a.jpg
http://lh6.ggpht.com/tim.m.parker/SHN0U2SjIFI/AAAAAAAAAUs/o0X9hQJmKY0/P1010296a.jpg?imgmax=400
http://lh6.ggpht.com/tim.m.parker/SHN0U8VvpOI/AAAAAAAAAUk/u9i7m3mhPpc/P1010277a.jpg?imgmax=400
http://lh6.ggpht.com/tim.m.parker/SHN0UsdohKI/AAAAAAAAAUY/qjBGdd_urMI/P1010271a.jpg?imgmax=512

[10101000]

Just the site of the tower and the new spire on the river plaza is stunning. I still cannot believe that we have such a nice skyline now. I know that it is not as big as others, but it is such an improvement. Thanks for posting the pics.

[Del]

There is an article in today's PR about moving Middle Bay Lighthouse to Battleship Park to preserve it and protect it from the abuse it takes out in the middle of the bay. I don't have anything against the Battleship Park idea, but I think it would be alot cooler if it could be placed in the area that will eventually be the Maritime Museum.I kind of see it as an outdoor exhibit connecting the Maritime Museum to Cooper Riverside Park. People already go to the Battleship so another exhibit there does not really provide that much additional benefit (not to mention the lighthouse doesn't really go with the other military exhibits). I think it would be nice to have something else across Water Street to pull people across to the waterfront in downtown, plus it would go great with the shipping/port emphasis that the Maritime Museum is focusing on. Any thoughts??

Nimsjus, this is a great idea. Has anybody suggested it to the lighthouse organization or to the museum people? Would your location also expose the lighthouse to less danger during a hurricane?

[SouthSky]

http://lh6.ggpht.com/tim.m.parker/SHN0UsdohKI/AAAAAAAAAUY/qjBGdd_urMI/P1010271a.jpg?imgmax=512

Thanks for the pictures... I like this one in particular.

[OCA REP]

Nimsjus, this is a great idea. Has anybody suggested it to the lighthouse organization or to the museum people? Would your location also expose the lighthouse to less danger during a hurricane?

An article on this subject was in today's Montgomery Advertiser:

http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080708/NEWS02/807080331/1007/news01

Group wants to move bay landmark
The Associated Press • July 8, 2008

MOBILE -- A proposal to move the Middle Bay Lighthouse some 15 miles to Battleship Memorial Park, restore it and put it on permanent display could cost about $1 million.

The Alabama Lighthouse Association has proposed to move the 123-year-old, storm-lashed lighthouse, according to one of the association's founding members, Hal Pierce.

Pierce said the idea has the backing of the Battleship Commission and will be brought before the Alabama Historical Commission on Aug. 6 in Montgomery.

The move is needed so the wooden lighthouse can be maintained better and can be seen by hundreds of thousands of visitors to the park, Pierce said.

The lighthouse was built in 1885 and sits in the Mobile Ship Channel. Shaped like a hexagon and placed on steel screw pilings, it was patterned after several lighthouses on Chesapeake Bay, according to lighthouse association literature.

Frank White, executive director of the Historical Commission, said he doesn't yet know the specific details of the proposal, but it sounds like a good idea. The commission has jurisdiction over the lighthouse.

Pierce expects to turn to the public for donations.

He said the project is expected to involve lifting the lighthouse by crane and transporting it by barge to the park on the Mobile Bay Causeway.

The largest expense would involve restoration of the lighthouse and site preparation. Pierce doesn't yet have a timeline for completing the project but hopes to have the structure moved to Battleship Park by the end of the year.

I really like the Maritime Museum idea. Someone should bring this to the attention of Frank White with the Alabama Historical Commission. The article says they will meet on August 6th and this subject will be brought up at that time.

[10101000]

I know this is a cheesy tee, but I bought it!
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm108/timothychase/jitcrunch.jpg

[10101000]

I wish it were more stylish, kind of not me.

[Del]

Would it be much more difficult and expensive to get the Middle Bay lighthouse to the museum site rather than beside the battleship? I know nothing about transporting lighthouses. :)

[10101000]

I duno, but I am glad that they are moving it.

[10101000]

Would it be much more difficult and expensive to get the Middle Bay lighthouse to the museum site rather than beside the battleship? I know nothing about transporting lighthouses. :)

Congrats on you 69th post! :banana:

[bayou15]

69 ha ha!:banana: :banana:

[pkp]

Would it be much more difficult and expensive to get the Middle Bay lighthouse to the museum site rather than beside the battleship? I know nothing about transporting lighthouses. :)

still on the water and extra 1/8 mile

[Muskavon]

Would it be much more difficult and expensive to get the Middle Bay lighthouse to the museum site rather than beside the battleship? I know nothing about transporting lighthouses. :)

Nothing about transporting lighthouses? What the hell are our high schools teaching these days?


Seriously though...anyone ever seen a footprint of the maritime museum? What kind of property are they dealing with? I like you guys (yall's in normal southern speak) idea of moving the lighthouse there. Is it really possible on the site is the question.

[Del]

Only 1/8 of a mile?

Lighthouse Transport was only offered as an elective at my high school, Muskavon.

I wonder if the thing would just end up smack dab under the new 215-foot Frances Coleman bridge. Which may explain why nothing's happening on the Maritime Museum, too.

I had an email all ready to go to Frank White and the power went out. Haven't tried again.

[sandebr00]

According to an article in the online edition of the Press Register, Mayor Jones thinks that Carnival may announce "any time now" that Mobile will be getting a larger cruise ship. The City, in fact, is willing to spend money to build a new gangway for passenger vessels, and has been in preliminary discussions to do so, should Mobile get a larger ship. Moreover, according to Mayor Jones, Dr. Bronner is in discussions with Carnival about possible incentives should Carnival place a new ship in Mobile.

http://www.al.com/news/press-register/index.ssf?/base/news/121559495634500.xml&coll=3

[LHG]

No, you are not experiencing an flashback...

Press-Register:
http://www.al.com/news/press-register/index.ssf?/base/news/121559490534500.xml&coll=3

Birmingham News: http://www.al.com/birminghamnews/stories/index.ssf?/base/business/1215591347104140.xml&coll=2

[sandebr00]

Also according to the online edition of the Press Register, Defense Secretary Gates is expected to present his plan for moving forward with the refueling tanker contract sometime today. It appears from the article that there are four possible recommendations that Defense Secretary Gates can make, but it is unclear at this time which of the four he will propose. First, he could recommend that a new competition be held. Second, he could recommend that the Air Force reevaluate certain criteria in light of the GAO report, but not hold a new competition, Third, he could recommend that a contract be given to one of the companies. Finally, he could recommend that the contract be split between the two companies.

http://www.al.com/news/press-register/index.ssf?/base/news/121559490534500.xml&coll=3

[sandebr00]

Sorry about the report, LHG. I apparently was typing my post about the tanker decision at the same time that you posted your comment!

[sandebr00]

Phase II of the renovotion of the old Press Register building into Space 301, the new art complex downtown, has been completed at a cost of $5.2 million. Here is an article about Space 301.

http://www.al.com/entertainment/press-register/index.ssf?/base/entertainment/121533571375390.xml&coll=3

[10101000]

Nice, good to see extra space being used.

[sandebr00]

Defense Secretary Gates will hold a press conference at noon today to discuss the tanker contract. According to Fox Ten News, it is expected that he will call for a "limited repeat" of the contract. Boeing's protest listed approximately 110 alleged errors, but the GAO upheld only 7 of them. The repeat will be limited to re-reviewing these 7 errors, scoring these areas properly, and then reassessing the contract award taking into consideration the prior findings that were not in error (most of which, presumably, were in Northrop's favor), and the new findings with respect to these 7 errors.

Here is an article that I found about the expected recommendation. If Defense Secretary Gates does recommend this, then it would be a blow to Boeing -- which wanted an entirely new competition (presumably because Northrop might still be favored based on the other prior findings). Also, this would be an "expedited" process, which means that we might get some good news soon!

http://blog.al.com/live/2008/07/gates_to_recommend_quick_recom.html

[10101000]

Never fails, I understand the position that Boeing is in. However, I believe that the contract should be awarded to N.G.

[Shawn35816]

I find it kind of ironic that years ago Alabama was really the heel of the U.S. but now the state is starting to hit it's economic stride while a lot of other states around the U.S. are stumbling over themselves. With VW looking to maybe have a large presence in Alabama soon, and with EADS looking to get into the U.S. market via Alabama things have definetly never been better. It's also ironic that years ago U.S. companies wouldn't have given Alabama a second glance but now foreign companies are coming in and kicking tail left and right by way of, you guessed it, Alabama.

I'm rooting for Mobile on the tanker deal.:yes:

[alexjon]

The Air Force has been pulled from the bid process and it's in the hands of the Pentagon with oversight by the Secretary of Defense.

Basically, this is going to be a decision made by the Senate working through the Pentagon. What will Senator Murray tell Senator Byrd?

[10101000]

I find it kind of ironic that years ago Alabama was really the heel of the U.S. but now the state is starting to hit it's economic stride while a lot of other states around the U.S. are stumbling over themselves. With VW looking to maybe have a large presence in Alabama soon, and with EADS looking to get into the U.S. market via Alabama things have definetly never been better. It's also ironic that years ago U.S. companies wouldn't have given Alabama a second glance but now foreign companies are coming in and kicking tail left and right by way of, you guessed it, Alabama.

I'm rooting for Mobile on the tanker deal.:yes:

Thanks! Shawn:whip:

[sandebr00]

I just watched the news conference on the tanker deal. According to Defense Secretary Gates, the Air Force will reopen the bidding on the tanker contract. The rebidding process will be an expedited one that will focus on as few of the original criteria possible, but will at the very least include re-evaluation of the 8 errors upheld by the GAO. In other words, the new competition will not be an entirely new one that reevaluates all of the criteria that were originally considered. Defense Secretary Gates stated specifically that he hoped the competiton would be completed by December of this year, and he also stated that he did not believe that any new criteria (such as WTO disputes) would be considered.

As mentioned in a previous post, this appears to be the best option for N.G. Given the GAO's findings and Congressional concerns, it was expected that a new competition would be held -- the issue was whether there would be an entirely new competition (which could take more than 18 months), or a limited competition (which is essentially what is happening).

However, on a less positive note, Boeing, at its option, may submit a different, larger plane for review for the new competition. One of the primary complaints by Boeing was that the Air Force originally indicated that it wanted a smaller plane, but ultimately accepted N.G.'s larger one. If Boeing does submit a different, larger plane, it would make sense that the Pentagon/Air Force will have to re-evaluate more of the criteria than it otherwise would if Boeing sticks with its original plane.

[alexjon]

Or the Pentagon could declare, in the best interest of the other armed services, that it's impractical to go with a plane the size of the Airbus. The amount of infrastructure upgrades required would be shouldered by not just the Air Force but all the armed forces.

[sandebr00]

Or the Pentagon could declare, in the best interest of the other armed services, that it's impractical to go with a plane the size of the Airbus. The amount of infrastructure upgrades required would be shouldered by not just the Air Force but all the armed forces.

Taxpayers, not the branches of the armed forces, shoulder infrastructure upgrades costs. And, it is in the best interest of taxpayers for a military contractor not to overcharge systematically the government (and, thus, to overcharge the taxpayers), or for a government employee to agree to inflate prices on contracts to curry favor with her prospective military contractor employer, with the implicit consent of at least one of the military contractor employees ....

Yet, Boeing paid $75 million in 1994 to settle accusations of systematic overcharges to the military (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9901E3DF1230F933A05757C0A962958260), and the Boeing CFO in 2004 pled guilty to a conflict-of-interest charge, and admitted his role in the illegal hiring of an Air Force official who was overseeing military contracts involving the aerospace giant (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A51778-2004Nov15.html). Perhaps the Pentagon/Air Force should consider this in awarding the contract, and should penalize Boeing accordingly?

In any event, what you are complaining of is only one of many criteria that were considered, and this one criteria may or may not ultimately favor Boeing. However, I don't see why that one criteria should weigh more heavily than other criteria such as mission capability, risk, cost, fuel storage capability, etc. If Boeing's plane is ultimately determined to be superior in this new process, then so be it. But, by the same token, if N.G.'s plane is judged superior, Boeing needs to get over it, base any future appeal exclusively on the merits of the contract process, and stop politicizing the procurement process.

[10101000]

Round 2!

[Port_of_Bama]

Was downtown to day and things are looking great !! people were out it was nice. I wish some one would dio something with the Van Antwerp building.

We all know that D.Tobile is full of lofts and retail is picking up. I had this radical idea about having big box reatil stores on some of the floors in the Van Antwerp such as the 3rd and 4th floor being a Dillards and th3 4th,5th,and 4th being a Macy`s or Nordstrom.


I think the decision that Gates mad was a fair decision and if i`m not mostaking maybe someone from the B-ham area can bag me up but I think Boeing skrewd the B-ham area over a in a 1 billion dollar deal to reapir jet engines I believe.


I wish the people in Miami will soon give us another vessel the contract with them will be up in October so if they don`t get it right down there Mobile will be looking in other areas. The Holiday has been well over 100 % in occupancy so I know we can do the same with a vessel with around 1800- 2000 occupants !!

[10101000]

It's coming, just hang in there. The peeps know that Mobile is a great investment and people are starting to catch the vision. I am going to O.B. tomorrow hope you all have a great week and weekend.

[10101000]

Oh, has anyone heard anything about Auburn expanding in Mobile?

[alexjon]

Taxpayers, not the branches of the armed forces, shoulder infrastructure upgrades costs. And, it is in the best interest of taxpayers for a military contractor not to overcharge systematically the government (and, thus, to overcharge the taxpayers), or for a government employee to agree to inflate prices on contracts to curry favor with her prospective military contractor employer, with the implicit consent of at least one of the military contractor employees ....

Yet, Boeing paid $75 million in 1994 to settle accusations of systematic overcharges to the military (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9901E3DF1230F933A05757C0A962958260), and the Boeing CFO in 2004 pled guilty to a conflict-of-interest charge, and admitted his role in the illegal hiring of an Air Force official who was overseeing military contracts involving the aerospace giant (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A51778-2004Nov15.html). Perhaps the Pentagon/Air Force should consider this in awarding the contract, and should penalize Boeing accordingly?

NG gave the government defective aircraft in an ongoing case that looks to involve over $200 million in settlement. They also overcharged the government and settled for over $110 Million. Boeing paid $75 million and fixed its Personnel problem. EADS is involved in billions of dollars of ongoing litigation involving insider trading and defense contractor incentives.

By your own metric, I'm not entirely sure why they're even running.

In any event, what you are complaining of is only one of many criteria that were considered, and this one criteria may or may not ultimately favor Boeing. However, I don't see why that one criteria should weigh more heavily than other criteria such as mission capability, risk, cost, fuel storage capability, etc.

In fuel costs alone, it will cost the Air Force an additional 35 Billion in the service lifetime of the Airbus planes, and that's at $140/gallon oil prices. How much is this first contract? The KC-767's defense and survivability are higher and are almost completely independent, meaning there is almost no need for the entire flight crew to devote their total attention to defense of the craft in any case whatsoever. The KC-30's fuel capacity would go largely unused (similar to the KC-767) due to limited fueling requirements, meaning that most of that $35 Billion of extra fuel costs would be for nothing.


Edited to Add: Boeing employes 3,200 people in Alabama. This all sounds like a really REALLY good way to lose 3,200 jobs. +4,800 and -3,200. Net gain of 1,600. Woo.

[HSVTiger]

Oh, has anyone heard anything about Auburn expanding in Mobile?

Yes recruiting is going very well in that area.
If you mean another campus no, especially in light of the recent tuition hike
due to shortfalls in funding.

[OCA REP]

However, on a less positive note, Boeing, at its option, may submit a different, larger plane for review for the new competition.

:fingerscrossed: 777 in Air Force Gray :fingerscrossed:

But, for Alabama's sake, the NG EADS will work...

[bayou15]

If Auburn comes to town, Will they bring their cheating refs with them?

[Bogue]

Not an Aubie by any means, but it would be nice to have a university in or very near downtown. Too bad that one couldn't just purchase the Bishop St. property and replace it w/ a nice campus and 10K or so students.

I also feel that the city needs a new large community college located closer to commuting routes on a magnitude of Shelton State in Tuscaloosa.

[SouthSky]

NG gave the government defective aircraft in an ongoing case that looks to involve over $200 million in settlement. They also overcharged the government and settled for over $110 Million. Boeing paid $75 million and fixed its Personnel problem. EADS is involved in billions of dollars of ongoing litigation involving insider trading and defense contractor incentives.

By your own metric, I'm not entirely sure why they're even running.

Boeing fixed its personnel problem? Why did I read a report the other day about 787 delays because of "personnel issues?"

Edited to Add: Boeing employes 3,200 people in Alabama. This all sounds like a really REALLY good way to lose 3,200 jobs. +4,800 and -3,200. Net gain of 1,600. Woo.

Why would Alabama lose jobs because of this? Boeing's employees are working here (Huntsville area) on rockets, etc for the space program.

Or the Pentagon could declare, in the best interest of the other armed services, that it's impractical to go with a plane the size of the Airbus. The amount of infrastructure upgrades required would be shouldered by not just the Air Force but all the armed forces.

The size of the A330? I've read that Boeing is considering resubmitting with the 777! The 777F is 209 feet long while the longest derivative of the A330 is 208 feet. The MTOW for the 767 is 7900 ft, 777 is 8200 ft at a minimum, and the A330 is anywhere between 7200 and 8200 ft. What upgrades are you speaking of?

[pboo74]

Listen people I just came back from chattanooga and it's the first time i've been there in 8yrs and alot has changed especially with the downtown water front they have the southern belle that takes you on boat trips in 2hr increments dinner/sightseeing and they have the high speed ferry also all in all they've done a good job with their d.t. i'am so jealous that we dont have this also the d.t. theatre they have is awesome.Me and my family rode the free electric shuttle bus everywhere it stops everywhere d.t. and the aquarium was very nice also we really need an aquarium.lots of places to eat also.and most didn't close until 11pm.Take notes mobile..

[alexjon]

Boeing fixed its personnel problem? Why did I read a report the other day about 787 delays because of "personnel issues?"

Nationally? Not that I've read. Locally? Can't say -- don't read your newspapers. Of course, that's apples to oranges, unless it was a massive governmental fraud incident that caused the 787 delay.



Why would Alabama lose jobs because of this? Boeing's employees are working here (Huntsville area) on rockets, etc for the space program.

Your mayor and state officials are actively campaigning against Boeing. There's something about biting and hands.

The size of the A330? I've read that Boeing is considering resubmitting with the 777! The 777F is 209 feet long while the longest derivative of the A330 is 208 feet. The MTOW for the 767 is 7900 ft, 777 is 8200 ft at a minimum, and the A330 is anywhere between 7200 and 8200 ft. What upgrades are you speaking of?

Not at this point, no. They're touting the benefits of their 767 from here to the end of time, especially considering the need for larger storage area (given the A330's larger size), larger taxi areas in some cases (wider, longer) for the other plane.

And again, the fuel cost difference between the two planes is the same as the cost of the contract. Where's the benefit in that?

[SouthSky]

Nationally? Not that I've read. Locally? Can't say -- don't read your newspapers. Of course, that's apples to oranges, unless it was a massive governmental fraud incident that caused the 787 delay.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2008028852_global020.html

http://www.pr-inside.com/boeing-787-may-face-more-delays-r679309.htm

--- same vain as above: http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5giZXf0v6uGzsm3-h1bVCbhs1Q0UA

Your mayor and state officials are actively campaigning against Boeing. There's something about biting and hands.

MY mayor is in south Alabama... Huntsville is extreme north Alabama. Why would a person in Mobile saying something have effect over a plant in Huntsville? Why would they pull out of a venture that big over someone voicing disapproval over a military contract? Tell me.

State officials: it's a different situation than stumping against Boeing. It's not that total of a negative. They are campaigning against Boeing in getting this contract that will GO OUT OF STATE.


Not at this point, no. They're touting the benefits of their 767 from here to the end of time, especially considering the need for larger storage area (given the A330's larger size), larger taxi areas in some cases (wider, longer) for the other plane.

And again, the fuel cost difference between the two planes is the same as the cost of the contract. Where's the benefit in that?

The difference in storage area, taxi areas is negligible. You do know they are very comparable designs... (aside from the more modern systems and cockpit on the A330)

Fuel cost is quite subjective based on the flights. The main difference is that the A330 has more range and has more cargo space than the 767. Of course you will burn more gas, but you will carry more burning more gas.

[alexjon]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2008028852_global020.html

http://www.pr-inside.com/boeing-787-may-face-more-delays-r679309.htm

--- same vain as above: http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5giZXf0v6uGzsm3-h1bVCbhs1Q0UA

So how is this the same as the last big scandal?

EADS has scandals too: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4760087.stm & http://www.google.com/search?q=EADS+scandal&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Northrop-Grumman, too: http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=7832

Again, N-G sold defective aircraft to the Navy. And as a counter to Boeing paying $75 million for overcharging, N-G paid $111 Million.


MY mayor is in south Alabama... Huntsville is extreme north Alabama. Why would a person in Mobile saying something have effect over a plant in Huntsville? Why would they pull out of a venture that big over someone voicing disapproval over a military contract? Tell me.

Because 9,000 employees is more than 3,200 employees. There are plenty of states that would be happy to have those operations.

State officials: it's a different situation than stumping against Boeing. It's not that total of a negative. They are campaigning against Boeing in getting this contract that will GO OUT OF STATE.


Alabama's stake in Boeing's revenue is very very very low, so again, hands and biting.

The difference in storage area, taxi areas is negligible. You do know they are very comparable designs... (aside from the more modern systems and cockpit on the A330)

Fuel cost is quite subjective based on the flights. The main difference is that the A330 has more range and has more cargo space than the 767. Of course you will burn more gas, but you will carry more burning more gas.

The cockpit on the A330 is NOT more modern. It is designed to appear that way, but still maintains analog features that the Boeing design did away with long ago. The refuelling boom on the A330 is far less flexible as well, and given a 25% fuel discharge during each mission, that 25% increase of fuel usage starts to eat into the argument.

Also, given its increased size (30% larger, I believe?), it limits the options in landing, doesn't it? Don't forget we've got bases splotched all over the world, so distance is not as big a deal as people are making it out to be.

Finally, the A330 has been designed to be less combat ready, from its size to its near-primitive defense system, it's simply a big clunky plane that has some use when the situation is more or less peaceful. What about the wars of the future? The ones with high-speed tactical jets? Your large tanker holding way more gas than it will use in mission looks like a big moving target, doesn't it? Bigger radar signature, less maneuvarable...

Hmmmm

[SouthSky]

So how is this the same as the last big scandal?

When you hear of so many problems on a new line you begin to ask questions.

EADS has scandals too: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4760087.stm & http://www.google.com/search?q=EADS+scandal&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Northrop-Grumman, too: http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=7832

Again, N-G sold defective aircraft to the Navy. And as a counter to Boeing paying $75 million for overcharging, N-G paid $111 Million.

These articles are proving what I have been thinking... both plans have had past corruptions but Boeing seems to think its hands have been washed. We need to remember why this contract is still going on. It was a scandal between Boeing and government officials that ended up throwing the contract back to bidding.

Because 9,000 employees is more than 3,200 employees. There are plenty of states that would be happy to have those operations.

Alabama's stake in Boeing's revenue is very very very low, so again, hands and biting.

I recognize the point you are trying to make. Again, why would the state need to choose between the two after the state and Boeing have had dialogue about the state fighting for the tanker contract? There are 73,000 direct aerospace jobs in Alabama, by the way.

The cockpit on the A330 is NOT more modern. It is designed to appear that way, but still maintains analog features that the Boeing design did away with long ago. The refuelling boom on the A330 is far less flexible as well, and given a 25% fuel discharge during each mission, that 25% increase of fuel usage starts to eat into the argument.
Also, given its increased size (30% larger, I believe?), it limits the options in landing, doesn't it? Don't forget we've got bases splotched all over the world, so distance is not as big a deal as people are making it out to be.

I would like to see where you get your stats, because you word it to make it seem that it was such an easy choice when the rest of the world's airlines recently have been buying a330's more than the smaller derivatives of the 767's. Besides, one of the critical shortfalls of Boeing's proposal was size. Remember how the AF was critiqued because "it wasn't specified" that size would be a factor?


Finally, the A330 has been designed to be less combat ready, from its size to its near-primitive defense system, it's simply a big clunky plane that has some use when the situation is more or less peaceful. What about the wars of the future? The ones with high-speed tactical jets? Your large tanker holding way more gas than it will use in mission looks like a big moving target, doesn't it? Bigger radar signature, less maneuvarable...

Hmmmm

We've gotten by with decades old tankers... why should we have to guess and be critiqued on the immensely different possibilities of future wars? In different scenarios each plane would have better effectiveness. The reason behind this "indecision" is that the AF liked EADS/NG's proposal (they should know better than Patty Murray about defense capabilities) and Boeing was left in the cold holding only their own propagandized statistics that released to the public hoping people would use them as the God's honest truth. Ask any unbiased enthusiast, the competition was close, and it was a judgment call and the AF picked the one that better suited their needs. Now, if the competition changes and the rules change you might see a different story.

http://blog.al.com/pr/2007/07/KC-30_spider_chart.jpg

[sandebr00]

This will be my last post on the Air Force Tanker contract (at least until the contract is re-awarded!), since we can continue to debate this forever, but it will ultimately be the Pentagon/Air Force which makes the decision (hopefully in the next 5 months).

Let me begin by reiterating that I want the best plane for our soldiers and our taxpayers. If it is Boeing's plane, then so be it. On the other hand, it sometimes appears that some Boeing supporters are not interested in the United States getting the best plane for its soldiers, but only that the United States get a Boeing plane, regardless of the two planes' merits. If it is true that Boeing's plane is superior, and N.G.'s is inferior, then perhaps the Senators and Congressmen from Washington and Kansas will kindly consider withdrawing their support for the bill that they introduced that either gives the contract to Boeing, or forces the Pentagon to consider new criteria that places Boeing at formidable advantage in the new competition? Obviously there's no need for such a bill if Boeing's plane is superior on the current merits.

I also wanted to add that my original post was not meant to imply that scandals are limited to Boeing. Rather, it was meant to point out that Boeing's latest attempt to portray itself as the protector and defender of the American taxpayer, and its current argument that cost to the taxpayer should be the overriding concern in this competition, is disingenuous to say the least. In the not so distant past, Boeing admittedly ripped off the American taxpayer systematically, and did so with apparent impunity (until it was caught).

Cost is, and should be, a valid consideration in the competition. But, there are other considerations, too, and, if the totality of the criteria favor N.G., then N.G. deserves the contract. Period. If, by contrast, Boeing's plane wins a majority of the criteria, then Boeing should be awarded the contract.

We all know, at this point, that the Air Force erred in calculating the life cycle cost of Boeing's plane, and that Boeing's plane actually offered the lower life cycle cost after proper recalculation. However, what we do not know is how this one criteria affects the overall competition. For instance, to my knowledge, we (the public) don't know the true difference in life cycle costs at this point, because that information was redacted in the final GAO report. We also do not know, at this point, whether the other benefits of N.G.'s plane, if any, outweigh this sole factor. If we did know this, then (i) it would be unnecessary to rebid the contract, or, at the very least, (ii) it would be unnecessary for the competition to last another six months. The new competition will answer these questions, and then we can all find out which plane is best for the Air Force.

The final point that I would like to make is that Boeing supporters have been much, much more vocal in disparaging N.G. and the Air Force than Alabamians have in disparaging Boeing. Instead of letting the appeals process work as it should have, Boeing and its supporters in Washington and Kansas, among other states, made the conscientious decision to wage a P.R. battle in newspapers, in print, and on Capitol Hill. (Incidentally, N.G. does have a presence, albeit minimal, in both Kansas and Washington. One must wonder how concerned the Senators from Washington and Kansas are about these jobs). Speaking of jobs gained and lost, time will tell if Boeing's decision in this regard will have any adverse implications for future contract opportunities with foreign governments (which, in turn, would affect future job opportunities for American workers in Washington and Kansas). There has certainly been some indications in the press that foreign European governments are upset by Boeing's actions after the contract was awarded to N.G. For Boeing and its workers, and for the American public in general, let's hope there will be no future adverse implications.

I hope that I speak for all Alabamians in saying that we welcome and appreciate Boeing here in AL. We also understand that Boeing is vital to our continued economic success. But, many here feel that N.G.'s plane is superior on the merits, and of course feel somewhat slighted by the efforts of Boeing supporters to ensure that Boeing wins the tanker contract, notwithstanding lipservice to a free, open, and fair competition.

[Del]

Speaking of biting and hands...did I not read somewhere a letter to the editor or statement by a NG official pointing out that NG had a line in Kansas, and that they'd hate to have to consider moving it? I paraphrase, of course.

[elb401]

Yeah, I read that too. but who cares anymore.

Have any of ya'll read milking the moon? Its a great book book about Eugene Walters. The first few chapters are about growing up in the early 1900s Mobile.

[OCA REP]

This will be my last post on the Air Force Tanker contract (at least until the contract is re-awarded!), since we can continue to debate this forever, but it will ultimately be the Pentagon/Air Force which makes the decision (hopefully in the next 5 months).

Let me begin by reiterating that I want the best plane for our soldiers and our taxpayers. If it is Boeing's plane, then so be it. On the other hand, it sometimes appears that some Boeing supporters are not interested in the United States getting the best plane for its soldiers, but only that the United States get a Boeing plane, regardless of the two planes' merits. If it is true that Boeing's plane is superior, and N.G.'s is inferior, then perhaps the Senators and Congressmen from Washington and Kansas will kindly consider withdrawing their support for the bill that they introduced that either gives the contract to Boeing, or forces the Pentagon to consider new criteria that places Boeing at formidable advantage in the new competition? Obviously there's no need for such a bill if Boeing's plane is superior on the current merits.

I also wanted to add that my original post was not meant to imply that scandals are limited to Boeing. Rather, it was meant to point out that Boeing's latest attempt to portray itself as the protector and defender of the American taxpayer, and its current argument that cost to the taxpayer should be the overriding concern in this competition, is disingenuous to say the least. In the not so distant past, Boeing admittedly ripped off the American taxpayer systematically, and did so with apparent impunity (until it was caught).

Cost is, and should be, a valid consideration in the competition. But, there are other considerations, too, and, if the totality of the criteria favor N.G., then N.G. deserves the contract. Period. If, by contrast, Boeing's plane wins a majority of the criteria, then Boeing should be awarded the contract.

We all know, at this point, that the Air Force erred in calculating the life cycle cost of Boeing's plane, and that Boeing's plane actually offered the lower life cycle cost after proper recalculation. However, what we do not know is how this one criteria affects the overall competition. For instance, to my knowledge, we (the public) don't know the true difference in life cycle costs at this point, because that information was redacted in the final GAO report. We also do not know, at this point, whether the other benefits of N.G.'s plane, if any, outweigh this sole factor. If we did know this, then (i) it would be unnecessary to rebid the contract, or, at the very least, (ii) it would be unnecessary for the competition to last another six months. The new competition will answer these questions, and then we can all find out which plane is best for the Air Force.

The final point that I would like to make is that Boeing supporters have been much, much more vocal in disparaging N.G. and the Air Force than Alabamians have in disparaging Boeing. Instead of letting the appeals process work as it should have, Boeing and its supporters in Washington and Kansas, among other states, made the conscientious decision to wage a P.R. battle in newspapers, in print, and on Capitol Hill. (Incidentally, N.G. does have a presence, albeit minimal, in both Kansas and Washington. One must wonder how concerned the Senators from Washington and Kansas are about these jobs). Speaking of jobs gained and lost, time will tell if Boeing's decision in this regard will have any adverse implications for future contract opportunities with foreign governments (which, in turn, would affect future job opportunities for American workers in Washington and Kansas). There has certainly been some indications in the press that foreign European governments are upset by Boeing's actions after the contract was awarded to N.G. For Boeing and its workers, and for the American public in general, let's hope there will be no future adverse implications.

I hope that I speak for all Alabamians in saying that we welcome and appreciate Boeing here in AL. We also understand that Boeing is vital to our continued economic success. But, many here feel that N.G.'s plane is superior on the merits, and of course feel somewhat slighted by the efforts of Boeing supporters to ensure that Boeing wins the tanker contract, notwithstanding lipservice to a free, open, and fair competition.


Pretty well said.

It would have probably been a good idea to have started a seperate thread for the AF Tanker Project similar to how "Alabama in the running for VW?" was kept seperate from "Huntsville updates." I don't know what the majority would think of this at this point, but thought I would throw it out.

I would read both threads anyway, so it does not make a real difference to me. Just a thought...

[MobiMan]

we need something for the children, a zoo would be great downtown north of where they tore down the housing projects, i think Broad st ends somewhere in there, but a zoo with a huge farris wheel, a double decker merry go round, just a small amusement park and there is enough land there for a small central park like area and there is water running through there perfect for a walk way and some nice bridges for walking and maybe carriage rides, they could put retail shops, just a nice place to spend the day have picnics in the park a place where families can play football or whatever...we have all this entertainment for adults but what about the kids i mean we are the largest school district in alabama, meaning we have the most children here, yet we have limted entertainment and activities for children and families ,,,and also what about movies under moonlight in cathedral square, thats a perfect sight for free movies, they can make money off consessions, like hotdogs ,popcorn, drinks, cotton candy ect. we could have an early movie on sunday for the children and a later movie for the adults...

[sandebr00]

Mobiman, I had the same thoughts about showing movies downtown. In fact, I just ate lunch with a person who works for the Downtown Mobile Alliance, and mentioned that I thought that movies in cathedral square would be nice! We did the same thing in ATL, and so many people turned out for the Turner classics. People would bring blankets, food, beer or wine, and have a picnic. The person from the downtown alliance indicated that he would look into the feasibility of it. He did mention that the Saenger is currently showing classic movies on Sunday nights, in case you're interested in that.

[Alxx611]

JD Crowe's take on a few recent events:


http://www.crowetoons.com/toons/70808mblighthouse.jpg


http://www.crowetoons.com/toons/61908rematch.jpg

http://www.crowetoons.com/toons/71008kingsolomon.jpg

[Muskavon]

LOL at the spire lighthouse. Maybe it's time to try a different design on the top of something. ;)

[Port_of_Bama]

So how is this the same as the last big scandal?

EADS has scandals too: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4760087.stm & http://www.google.com/search?q=EADS+scandal&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Northrop-Grumman, too: http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=7832

Again, N-G sold defective aircraft to the Navy. And as a counter to Boeing paying $75 million for overcharging, N-G paid $111 Million.




Because 9,000 employees is more than 3,200 employees. There are plenty of states that would be happy to have those operations.



Alabama's stake in Boeing's revenue is very very very low, so again, hands and biting.



The cockpit on the A330 is NOT more modern. It is designed to appear that way, but still maintains analog features that the Boeing design did away with long ago. The refuelling boom on the A330 is far less flexible as well, and given a 25% fuel discharge during each mission, that 25% increase of fuel usage starts to eat into the argument.

Also, given its increased size (30% larger, I believe?), it limits the options in landing, doesn't it? Don't forget we've got bases splotched all over the world, so distance is not as big a deal as people are making it out to be.

Finally, the A330 has been designed to be less combat ready, from its size to its near-primitive defense system, it's simply a big clunky plane that has some use when the situation is more or less peaceful. What about the wars of the future? The ones with high-speed tactical jets? Your large tanker holding way more gas than it will use in mission looks like a big moving target, doesn't it? Bigger radar signature, less maneuvarable...

Hmmmm






I thought that the Boeing operation in Huntsville is with Space exploration not aviation .N.G just did an expansion in Huntsville on the Red Stone Arsenal.


Didn`t this Alex guy tell us in a later post that Seattle makes big bucks and Mobile is economicaly depressed ? It seems as if your state and city are doing most of the complaining buddy !!


We (Mobilans) aren`t coming on the Seattle thread your coming on ours which we don`t mind but what the hell this Tanker talk is getting out of hand . Alex are you worried ,well with Seattle making big dough in all and not realy needing this 40 bill dollar deal ? I believe that is a bunch of bull crap who wouldn`t wan`t it hell there are 2 states against 1 Washington and that piece of trash state Kansas by the way what the hell is Kansas known for anyway ? Oh yeah I got it Kansas the state of perpetual whining !

[elb401]

A little harsh Port of Bama, but i understand your fustration but lets not go down to there level. Alex.... Your not going to change anyminds here about who the contract should go to and how corrupt Boeing is. This region (Northwest Florida, South Alabama, and Southern Mississippi) has a lot of anti boeing additude. Not just over the tanker deal but Boeing lying to us and taking advantage of our communties in the past.

So lets all just end this tanker talk for now and we can have a nice conversation about it in December.

Lets get back on topic about Mobile.

[pboo74]

A little harsh Port of Bama, but i understand your fustration but lets not go down to there level. Alex.... Your not going to change anyminds here about who the contract should go to and how corrupt Boeing is. This region (Northwest Florida, South Alabama, and Southern Mississippi) has a lot of anti boeing additude. Not just over the tanker deal but Boeing lying to us and taking advantage of our communties in the past.

So lets all just end this tanker talk for now and we can have a nice conversation about it in December.

Lets get back on topic about Mobile.

amen

[MobiMan]

I think we should get back on track and think of ways we can help make some of our ideas become realities...Ive read everyones post and we have some very intellegent people here...i Believe if we all get together, have our on meetings and put some of our ideas on paper we could present them to the city...There are ways we can raise money, sell candy, sell t shirts put those big water bottles in stores and other businesses, talk to business owners, we can find private funding we can raise money ourselves, It seems thats the only way some of these ideas dreams and views are gonna become real, somany of the people running this city are set in their ways, and we do need what they are providing, but if we want to live in a city that looks and operates the way we want it to, then we have to do something about it, so put your ideas on paper and let us have our own meetings put something together and present it to the city after all we are the city, after all without us there would be no city

[Muskavon]

^ As much as your idea may be scoffed at as idealistic, I actually think it'd work if used as a force. Motivated people who know the issues fired up to accomplish goals. There really isn't a force like that outside the typical motivated developers and small group of motivated homeowners. Even they only are concerned about their little micro-environments. Save the even smaller groups of environmental concerns.

The first step would be for everyone here to agree on a priority list and categories. Everyone here has local public ideas. They all cost money. Yucca bushes in a median (ok...my bad joke again). Lighthouse ideas. Etc.

Then there are bigger public project ideas....I-10 Bay Bridge concepts, I-265 by-pass possibilities, Etc.

Then there are zoning issues...Spring Hill, etc.

Then there are mega-development priorities to consider. Race Track killing rivers or transportation to a new steel plant or port issues or cruise ships or bridges to Brookley Field.

And on and on. Haven't even addressed a big issue talked about here all the time...downtown livability. And how to draw more to downtown. And transportation. And urban living. Auditorium use. Best use of other properties. Parks.

If you want to address government with real influence (and I believe you could with all these people here), you need a consensus priority list like you say. And you need a volunteer who can deliver them charismatically and with no shame.

I'd suggest debating a priority list now.

If you guys ever pull this off I demand you help me do the same in Pensacola. If there was ever a town that needed a consolidation of priorities and a dream for the future...it is this sad town. Some focus above leaders lack of....that'd be a dream come true.

[Bogue]

I could say a lot about my feelings on Boeing, but I'll just condense it and move on.

My opinion of Boeing and its supporters could not be more negative.

No one w/ half a brain is worried Boeing will pull out of Huntsville. To do so would effectively remove them from the space business and give their opponents a very profitable new revenue stream. It's such a lame, toothless threat that it's funny to watch Boeing's pathetic little supporters try to use it. I mean..... really?

I could say a LOT more about Boeing and the ignorance and racism displayed by its supporters in Seattle, but this will be it for now.


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I like the idea of projecting movies in Cathedral Square. I think a film festival in general in the LODA area from Cathedral to Bienville Squares during Summer would be nice. A cartoon film festival one Saturday a month May - September maybe. They could block off sections of the streets through there and set up small-ish tents w/ projectors and have a single flat rate to enter w/ local vendors/shops open at regular rates. Have some events for kids, show some of the older Disney movies, maybe. Have some events for kids and people in some favorite character costumes in the crowds. Perhaps a photo op w/ the Trail Maids? They could have it end at 8 and that would keep it from conflicting w/ the weekend crowds in the area.

I LOVE the idea of an aquarium in the area, but where would you put it? I think putting something really nice in the place of the grocery store on the corner of Broad & Govt. would be a great way to kick off redevelopment there. It would also complement the beautiful churches there and be both visible and accessible to the citizens of the city. I know that DT needs grocery stores, but that one's kind of seedy-looking, IMO. Something along the lines of Ripleys aquarium in Gatlinburg would be a great size for Mobile.

The zoo idea would be nice as well. Another case of where to put it. I would've liked to have seen that whole neighborhood north of the PR building flattened and turned into land for public use... not necessarily as a park in the traditional sense, but perhaps a zoo or something in a similar vein. That would "seem" to be the only area where you could get significant space that close to the interstate right now, though the Civic Center property & the areas just west of it might be an interesting option.

[sandebr00]

In my opinion, the first priority should be to implement the movie showings at Cathedral Square. The reason being, it may not be overly expensive to do (particularly if we could get the Saenger or one of the movie theaters in town to donate the movies), and it could produce tangible results (happy families getting to watch movies and happy business owners who may benefit from it) in a short period of time. Moreover, we could then explain our other ideas to a large group of people who (hopefully) come to watch the movies, and maybe some of these people would be interested in helping us to fulfill our other goals, either through volunteering or financial donations.

I've also thought that it would be nice for downtown Mobile to have a museum of natural history devoted primarily to dinosaurs. Children love dinosaurs, and it would give Mobilians and visitors something else to do and to see. The museum could have some life sized replicas of smaller dinosaurs, and could have interactive games of some sort. I was thinking that the museum could go in the old American Red Cross building on Broad Street (it looks pretty big from the outside), which could spur future development along that corridor (if you have large groups of people there, maybe more restaurants and shops would open).

I also really like the idea of an aquarium, although, given the flooding problems of downtown during hurricanes, the site choice would have to be made carefully.

[Bogue]

Is there not a Natural History museum in town? I don't actually know now that you mention it. I guess I assumed since there were so many museums (musea?) that there would have to be one. Kids like Dinosaurs, true, but could be cool to focus on the giant aquatic dinosaurs (some of which swam in the area back in the day so the kids might connect more).

Isn't the disaster response building supposed to go on the site of the old Red Cross building or did they decide to move further inland? I lost track of that story a while back.

[sandebr00]

I had not heard about anything going in the American Red Cross building. I thought it was just sitting empty. But, if that's true, then that site clearly would not work, and I'll have to be on the lookout for other property.

I'm not sure if we have a museum of natural history, but if we do, I don't think it's devoted primarily to dinosaurs. I like your idea of having an aquatic theme to it (an obvious tie-in to the port city). I have to admit, though, I'm partial to the flying dinosaurs!

I just think that downtown needs more family oriented things to do to give families a reason to come to downtown on the weekends, and to give visitors and tourists things to do throughout the day. The business component of downtown is there, and residential is quickly catching up. But, other than bars and restaurants, there's not much downtown for families, except during special events such as the chili cookoff.

[sandebr00]

This is somewhat off topic, but I just read that a German automotive publication has reported that Huntsville is the favored choice of the VW management board for the new VW plant! If true, great news for Huntsville and all of AL. Congratulations to all!! Maybe Mobile be next on the list for an automobile plant?

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2008/07/huntsville_first_choice_for_vw.html

[elb401]

I think starting a group is a great idea.