[James Bond Agent 007]

Thursday, February 8, 2007
Sonics unveil arena funding plan
By Ralph Thomas and Ashley Bach
Seattle Times reporters

OLYMPIA — After weeks of waiting, state lawmakers today finally got to see the details of a $300 million tax package that the Sonics are proposing for a new arena in King County.

The legislation, which probably won't be formally introduced until Monday, is similar to what the team's previous owners failed to sell to the Legislature the past two years. It would allow King County to extend several existing taxes that are currently being used to pay off the debt on Safeco Field, Qwest Field and the Kingdome, which was demolished in 2000.

"These are the same taxes we've been paying all along," said Sen. Margarita Prentice, D-Renton, the Sonics' biggest supporter in Olympia.

So far, however, support in the Legislature is spotty at best.

"I know there are some senators interested," said Senate Majority Leader Lisa Brown, D-Spokane, "but I just don't know how that translates yet into broader support."

Aside from paying for a new arena for the Sonics and Storm basketball teams, the tax package proposed in Senate Bill 5986 would raise an additional $123 million that King County could use for other purposes. The bill says the top-priority use for the money is arts and cultural activities, followed by maintenance on existing sports facilities.

Sonics lobbyists worked the halls today, rounding up sponsors for the draft legislation. By the end of the day, five senators had signed onto the bill. The team plans to start looking for sponsors in the House next week.

Prentice, who chairs the powerful Senate Ways and Means Committee, will hold a hearing on the bill on Tuesday.

She said she assumed Sonics owner Clay Bennett would be ready to announce an arena site by then, but team officials weren't making any promises.

"I can't predict that," said team spokesman Jim Kneeland. "We're working as quickly as we can to get the site."

The team is deciding between sites in Bellevue and Renton. Kneeland said the team had hoped to have that finalized before formally proposing the tax package.

"It just didn't make sense to wait any longer, we had to get it moving," he said.

Sonics consultants met with Bellevue city officials today and asked what the city was prepared to offer for a new arena. City officials did not have an answer because they said they still needed more information, such as how much money the building would make, said City Manager Steve Sarkozy.

"We're still in the information gathering mode," Sarkozy said. "We're trying to understand their business plan, their revenue structure and where they see gaps in their financing."

Renton city officials have not met with the team in person but have spoken on the phone, said Alex Pietsch, city economic development director. The team has not directly asked city officials what they would offer, though both parties have discussed parking and other improvements at an arena site.

Pietsch said team officials assured him they don't need any more information from the city to make their decision. "I feel like we've done what we can."

If the team chooses Renton, "we'll really be able to dive in and really understand what the economics are," he said.

The new arena — a multi-purpose facility that could accommodate other professional sports, such as hockey — is expected to cost more than $500 million. The team and other private-sector sources will pick up the portion not covered by taxpayers.

[oilcan]

I hope something evolves clearing all this b.s... would rather see it in d/t rather than the burbs... but anything will work at this point I guess.... I hate that stadiums are leaving city cores and heading outward... hats off to the cities that keep them centralized.... The Sonics franchise has been a disaster/mockery the way it has been ran/handled lately... ashamed just to think little bit more than 10 years ago they were in the NBA finals.. What a slap in the face to a metropolitan area that well populated to loose them, and does not fair well for the NW in general with the Grizz departing Vancouver, Portland's shakes as of recent years... Sure something will work out, it had better because just the thought of the Oklahoma Sonics... drives me insane...

Downtown Freddy Brown....

[pdxtex]

what's wrong with key arena? do the sonics want a larger capacity venue or is it a situation with the new owners who are demanding it?

[PacificNW]

The Sonics/Owners want a larger venue to be competitive in revenue.

[WonderlandPark]

That thing just got a complete and thorough renovation in what, '96? '97?

[herb]

They need lots of help because their just a poor bunch of Joes in it for the love of the game, not the filthy rich fuckers who could easily build it with their own money.

[James Bond Agent 007]

That thing just got a complete and thorough renovation in what, '96? '97?
'95. I think.

[northface]

thats still new^ and still not payed off if i recall. i was driving down I 405 today and I could picture it in renton down there by boeing and the landing on the water...we'll see what monday and tuesday's announcments will mean for the sonics and the region.

[sirsimon]

They need lots of help because their just a poor bunch of Joes in it for the love of the game, not the filthy rich fuckers who could easily build it with their own money.

^ :haha:

[NW Mike]

What ever they did in 95-96 for remodeling was just the basics. The city did not want to over haul the Key. BUt that was there big mistake. The team has not been able to make any money do to loss sale in the club seats and private suites. Its time for a world class arena like quest field and safeco field.

[Seasun]

What ever they did in 95-96 for remodeling was just the basics. The city did not want to over haul the Key. BUt that was there big mistake. The team has not been able to make any money do to loss sale in the club seats and private suites. Its time for a world class arena like quest field and safeco field.

Except for the 4 main support beams of the roof - I think Key Arena got an entirely new roof structure and skin. The floor of the arena was dug out to increase seating capacity. A corresponding excavation took place outside the arena towards the International fountain to access the lowered floor. I believe HVAC and electrical got major upgrades - probably more like completely replaced. I could be wrong but I think this was a lot more than just the basics.

[bedir than average]

It is the third smallest arena in the NBA though and yet we are the 13th largest Market in the league.

That and the lease sucks for the team.

I'm in favor of Renton. The project would integrate into the rapidly revitalizing downtown with The Landing, the Transit Center and the rennovations along antique row. If Renton adds this and has at the opposite end of Jean Coulon the Seahawks training facilities the city will be linked with the Eastside for reputation as opposed to its "southend" reputation.

[uwhuskies]

:previous: Gene Coulon

[northface]

yeah, went by there again today, love the area for it. Renton highlands is booming...and the downtown has done a complete 180. There still needs lots of work to be done...revitalization wise...

[James Bond Agent 007]

And the winner is . . .

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/303613_sonics14.html

Sonics: Renton, here we come
But first, team wants $400 million from taxpayers

By CHRIS McGANN AND CRAIG HARRIS
P-I REPORTERS

OLYMPIA -- The Seattle Sonics want the public to pay for most of a new $500 million multipurpose arena in Renton, they want most of the proceeds from that facility and they want the money without a public vote, owner Clay Bennett told lawmakers Tuesday.

The NBA team will face a fight on every front.

Aside from support from Renton and King County, Bennett is dealing with taxpayers who still are paying for four major stadiums and who have grown weary of subsidies for millionaires and sports teams.

And there are many other formidable obstacles:

# It would be nearly impossible to pass the tax package without support from Speaker of the House Frank Chopp, D-Seattle, who has said his caucus isn't interested and that the money should go to education and health care.

# If the Legislature authorizes a tax package that does not include a public vote, opponents say they'll file an initiative to block the deal and King County Council Chairman Larry Phillips has told state leaders he'll block the necessary county tax increases.

# The land Bennett said he wants to build is apparently not for sale.

The Boeing Co. owns the roughly 22 acres that the Sonics want, but a Dallas-based developer, Harvest Partners, has the first right of refusal to buy the property.

And Harvest Partners on Tuesday gave no indication it was willing to sell.

"We are moving forward to build a shopping center on that land. That is our intent and that is the direction we will pursue," said Natalie Quick, a Harvest Partners spokeswoman. "We have no formal agreement nor have we had discussions with anyone. Our plan remains the same."

Bennett told the Senate Ways and Means Committee that he expects the public to provide most of the financing -- $300 million from the state, about $100 million from the city of Renton -- and that most of the money from the facility should go to the team.

Bennett said his time and the $350 million the Oklahoma City ownership group spent buying the Sonics last year is a substantial part of the team's investment. He also said he expects to take responsibility for about $100 million in private investments.

Ways and Means Chairwoman Margarita Prentice, D-Renton, said the public would benefit from new jobs and tax revenue generated by sales at and around the arena.

"With each transaction, you get a new tax," she said.

But Chris Van Dyk, founder of Citizens for More Important Things, blasted the proposal.

"For them to say they are doing a big community service by buying the team is preposterous," he said. "The former Sonics owners bought the team, held it for five years and made $80 million profit."

Van Dyk said the Sonics should pay for their own arena.

"This is a private enterprise, we are not a socialist state, let the private market take care of those problems."

Bennett said the hostility in some quarters to public sports stadium funding surprised him.

"I underestimated that part of the deal," he said, adding he hopes the region will rally to keep professional basketball. Bennett has said he may move the team if the Sonics don't get a new arena.

Asked why he didn't try to build the stadium with private money, Bennett said the "model has changed" because the facility will be much more than a venue for sports. "This will be the most expensive building ever built (for an NBA team)," he said.

King County Executive Ron Sims testified in support of Senate Bill 5986, which would allow the county to extend taxes on things such as restaurants, rental cars and hotels worth $423 million. He said the plan would provide sustained money for the arts and ball fields that is not available today.

Renton Mayor Kathy Keolker said the facility would help create a vibrant community.

"We see the potential of this arena as a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity," she said.

But one of Renton's biggest investors said the area's economy could bloom without a new multipurpose stadium and pro basketball.

Harvest Partners is now building on 46 acres of the first phase of the Landing, a proposed 68-acre urban village just off Interstate 405 near the south end of Lake Washington. The land the Sonics want is directly south of phase one, which Quick said is 70 percent leased.

"People continue to see the value of doing business in Renton and we don't see that changing," Quick said. "When we think of that second 22 acres, we are looking at it as viable property for retail."

Peter Conte, a Boeing spokesman, said the company was very excited about possibly having an arena in Renton, but "significant issues" such as security and traffic flow must be worked out because the nearby Boeing plant is the final assembly site for Boeing 737s.

"Boeing needs to make sure its manufacturing operations are not impacted and we continue to meet our obligations to our customers," Conte said.

Larry Warren, Renton's attorney, said the city has not made any financial promises to the Sonics regarding infrastructure or parking amenities.

"There is no deal," Warren said. "We have a pretty strong message we try to follow and that is the revenues brought in by any new endeavor have to cover what we will invest. We would have to do an economic analysis."

Meanwhile, Renton's gain is a loss for Bellevue, which also had been in discussions with the Sonics about having an arena.

"I wish them well," Bellevue Mayor Grant Degginger said. "If they continue to look, I'm sure we will talk to them again."

Back in Renton, Jay Fisher, who owns the Dog and Pony Ale House and Grill, is optimistic about the proposed move.

"This is going to impact us, and it can only be positive. ... Sonics fans are not just in Seattle; they're from all over Washington. I think for many Sonics fans it wouldn't be much harder to make the drive here."

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20070214/sonics-renton.gif

[northface]

YAY 4 renton! DONt let them become the oklahoma sonics! YUCK!

[herb]

And the winner is . . .

The Seattle Sonics want the public to pay for most of a new $500 million multipurpose arena in Renton, they want most of the proceeds from that facility and they want the money without a public vote, owner Clay Bennett told lawmakers Tuesday.
...


Wise to avoid a public vote. I'd estimate maybe only %15 of the voting public takes it in the ass. %20 tops. And to reach even that pathetic number it's gonna take a lot of sweet talk and a lot of alcohol, neither of which is part of the proposal.

Stadium gets built anyway.

For those of you keeping track:
Billionaires: 128934710958720398723095820349525
Everyone else: $19.95 + tax*










*128934710958720398723095820349525

[uwhuskies]

:previous:
What is your proposal Herb? Letting the Sonics leave will also rid the region of those tax revenues they were planning on using for the new Arena.

Unfortunately, only billionaires can afford to spend hundreds of millions of dollars of THEIR own money to purchase a team. So, if the community insists that the billionaire now must keep the team in Seattle how is it that the owner is getting a return on their investment if they are the only ones that assume risk?

We will probably see the malcontent Mr Van Dyk who was against Qwest Field become more vocal in the coming days. He was outspoken against the Seahawks saying that the team should just leave town and that there are "more important" social issues. The decision to build Qwest and Safeco fields turned out a success with the revenues generated in the county allowing for an early retirement of the bonds. The proposal is to extend those bonds ALREADY in place. How is this so unreasonable?

As far as spending on items that are "more important" such as social services. Which proposal generates tax revenue to FUND social services? Will tax revenues to fund those "more important" things increase or drop with the proposal should be the question. The sonic proposal is revenue neutral meaning that there will be neither a gain nor loss, but remember the community as a whole benefits when cultural and sports activities flourish.

Sounds unfair? How often do you buy merchandise at the store and just give the newly purchased item away? Essentially that is what some believe should happen. True, the Sonic ownership is wealthy but even their resources are finite. Shouldn't they have they ability to do whatever they want with the Sonics, even move the team?

:shrug:

[herb]

:previous:
What is your proposal Herb? Letting the Sonics leave will also rid the region of those tax revenues they were planning on using for the new Arena.

Exactly. No Sonics whining about a new arena. No new arena. Seattle already has an arena. All of that money just stays in our pockets.


Unfortunately, only billionaires can afford to spend hundreds of millions of dollars of THEIR own money to purchase a team. So, if the community insists that the billionaire now must keep the team in Seattle how is it that the owner is getting a return on their investment if they are the only ones that assume risk?


I was just having fun with the billionaires bit, but really, I think they actually could build their own stadium if they wanted to. They don't want to, I assume, because it's a crappy investment opportunity. So they look for ways to minimize and share the crappy investments while still raking in "most of the proceeds". Good idea, but if they are not willing to make that investment why should the public be asked to. Why should I be asked to. Sucks that their particular business can't "compete" without massive public subsidy but they bought the team, not me. I imagine the price reflected any uncertainty about the teams future.

Some people are insisting that they stay, others couldn't care less. The best way we have for settling things like this is to vote. Let everyone decide for themselves if this is a good investment of their money. Wonder why the billionaires don't feel we should have a say in the matter?



We will probably see the malcontent Mr Van Dyk who was against Qwest Field become more vocal in the coming days. He was outspoken against the Seahawks saying that the team should just leave town and that there are "more important" social issues. The decision to build Qwest and Safeco fields turned out a success with the revenues generated in the county allowing for an early retirement of the bonds. The proposal is to extend those bonds ALREADY in place. How is this so unreasonable?


I have no idea how the financing works on these projects. Are you saying that Quest and Safeco fields are paid for already? How about the new roof for the kingdome? And the key arena renovation? If so, that's great news. Why not stop while we're ahead.


As far as spending on items that are "more important" such as social services. Which proposal generates tax revenue to FUND social services? Will tax revenues to fund those "more important" things increase or drop with the proposal should be the question. The sonic proposal is revenue neutral meaning that there will be neither a gain nor loss, but remember the community as a whole benefits when cultural and sports activities flourish.

Sounds unfair? How often do you buy merchandise at the store and just give the newly purchased item away? Essentially that is what some believe should happen. True, the Sonic ownership is wealthy but even their resources are finite. Shouldn't they have they ability to do whatever they want with the Sonics, even move the team?

:shrug:

The Sonic ownership already can and will do whatever they want with their team. If the stadium is such a great investment why don't they build it and run it themselves? Because it's not. They pay for 1/5 of it and take "most of the proceeds". Public pays for 4/5 but what it receives is mostly intangible: the knowledge that we have a NBA team, a "world class" stadium, a home team to root for. For basketball fans and sports fans in general these might be tax dollars well spent on institutions they value, but what benefit do the rest of us receive? Intolerable sports related television, news, conversations, fashion, traffic, and architecture? (I KID)

[seaskyfan]

The Stranger's SLOG has a letter from all five D members of the KC Council (a majority of the KC Council) to Senator Prentice saying they would ask folks to vote before turning over the hotel/motel/etc. revenue.

http://www.thestranger.com/blog/2007/02/kc_to_sonics_nope

[uwhuskies]

:previous: Just a quickie for Herb.

Look up the information regarding the Qwest Field stadium bonds and the Kingdome roof retirement costs. Most individuals find their own research compelling rather than someone else's. Don't get me wrong, I am about as fiscally conservative as many come, but I try to see the bigger picture rather than exhort platitudes that sound great. How would the Seattle area be better if we lose a community asset.

Enough said. Let's talk about skyscrapers and buildings. Oh, when are the Sonics planning to build that $500 million arena? How many people will it take to build and operate the new arena? Get my drift....:tup:

[uwhuskies]

:previous: Just a quickie for Herb.

Look up the information regarding the Qwest Field stadium bonds and the Kingdome roof retirement costs. Most individuals find their own research compelling rather than someone else's. Don't get me wrong, I am about as fiscally conservative as many come, but I try to see the bigger picture rather than exhort platitudes that sound great. How would the Seattle area be better if we lose a community asset.

Enough said. Let's talk about skyscrapers and buildings. Oh, when are the Sonics planning to build that $500 million arena? How many people will it take to build and operate the new arena? Get my drift....:tup:

[PacificNW]

Why is that when it comes to sports stadiums and arena's Seattle always go for the most expensive option? Plus, I always thought most national presidential conventions were held closer to the city....isn't this proposed site a little to far from downtown Seattle/hotels to be a serious contender? Can you imagine the traffic nightmare of getting the nominee's and delegates to and from Renton? (How close is light rail going to be to this proposed site?) Anyway, most of today's sports facilities being built closer to a major cities downtown...although there are exceptions. If the Sonics move from the Key they should have brought back the Qwest/Safeco area plans IMO....maybe the owners are just telling Seattle to shove it up their behinds. I still think Mr. Bennett has other plans for the Sonics.

[northface]

well, being close to the airport...its VERY convinient... people dont want to deal with traffic going into and out of SEATTLE. It will serve as a convention center for the city of renton and everything...as far as congestion in the renton area....there are plans to expand 1-405 through there and construction is already underway at the landing for new roads and on ramps...so it works in the end....ALSO, the development on the water known as "southport" is about to build a buisness park, marina, resteraunts and hotel on the waterfront...rentons changing.

[SeattleHusky82]

If the Sonics move from the Key they should have brought back the Qwest/Safeco area plans IMO....maybe the owners are just telling Seattle to shove it up their behinds. I still think Mr. Bennett has other plans for the Sonics.

The city of Seattle passed an initiative that made it virtually impossible for the Sonics to make a deal. So in actuality, it was Seattle that told the Sonics to shove it up their behinds.

Seattle's loss will be Renton's gain, thanks to the shortsightedness of idiots like Nick Licata and Chris Van Dyk.

[PacificNW]

I have a feeling that the funding for this arena is not a done deal. When people visit the Northwest, and in Puget Sound in particular, they want to spend time in Seattle. Renton is probably not even on their lists....and this goes for conventions. Why do you think the Washington State Convention and Trade Center was built downtown and not, say....Renton? Plus, the concentration of hotels are downtown. As for Sonic games there is going to be a commute regardless ....last count there is a higher % of Sonic fans living on the eastside. Although the commute across 520 is not ideal for those fans the 405 S curves are a mess.

[SeattleHusky82]

^ what's your point? The tax that is going to fund the arena is not a city-only tax, it will be a state-wide tax. So taxes from restaurants and hotels in Seattle (as well as the rest of the state) will also contribute, not just from Renton.

The Sonics WANTED to stay in Seattle but were forced to move to the Eastside because of the idiot elected officials (Nick Liccata).

[herb]

:previous: Just a quickie for Herb.

Look up the information regarding the Qwest Field stadium bonds and the Kingdome roof retirement costs. Most individuals find their own research compelling rather than someone else's. Don't get me wrong, I am about as fiscally conservative as many come, but I try to see the bigger picture rather than exhort platitudes that sound great. How would the Seattle area be better if we lose a community asset.

For me, whether or not the Sonics are an asset to the community is not so cut and dry. Because of the limited supply of teams and the resulting competition among cities we essentially pay for the privilege of having them conduct their business here. Then again we also benefit from their very presence in ways both tangible and intangible, so maybe it evens out or we come out ahead. How can we be sure? We can measure and calculate and discuss and debate and in the end decide whether we get more out than we put in. If 51% of the rest of you want a new stadium, I'm down. Lets do it. How about something shiny. No beige, please.

What the owners are proposing, however, is that there be no vote; that we not discuss and debate. They decide that they are in fact an asset to us and also how much it will cost us to keep them. What if a majority of people don't agree with their generous self appraisal? What right do they have to impose themselves on a population that is not interested?

Enough said. Let's talk about skyscrapers and buildings. Oh, when are the Sonics planning to build that $500 million arena? How many people will it take to build and operate the new arena? Get my drift....:tup:


I get that you're drifting, but where to? I'm still back here in the Sonics unveil arena funding plan thread.

[herb]

^ what's your point? The tax that is going to fund the arena is not a city-only tax, it will be a state-wide tax. So taxes from restaurants and hotels in Seattle (as well as the rest of the state) will also contribute, not just from Renton.

The Sonics WANTED to stay in Seattle but were forced to move to the Eastside because of the idiot elected officials (Nick Liccata).

I think I might have helped too. Me and around 70% of Seattle voters.:tup:

Nick Lacata rocks!

:babyeat:

[PacificNW]

☝The point being why spend $500 million+ for an arena to attract conventions, etc. in Renton when the concentration of hotels/attractions are downtown Seattle? Most arena's that are multipurpose are located to those attractions. A $300 million arena would be okay...it doesn't have to be the most expensive arena in the whole world...Plus, a tax for the whole state? ↓

[northface]

doesnt lynwood, bellevue, everett, and tacoma have convention centers? yes....so why cant renton? Plus seattle already has their own massive convention and trade center. its useful for renton b/c of big names like boeing, ikea, seahawks headqrt's and the federal reserve bank.

[SeattleHusky82]

☝The point being why spend $500 million+ for an arena to attract conventions, etc. in Renton when the concentration of hotels/attractions are downtown Seattle? Most arena's that are multipurpose are located to those attractions. A $300 million arena would be okay...it doesn't have to be the most expensive arena in the whole world...Plus, a tax for the whole state? ↓

Sorry, I meant a county-wide tax. But like I've said repeatedly, they wanted to stay in Seattle but due to the nimby's they were driven out and forced to build an arena on the Eastside. As far as conventions go, I doubt this arena would host many conventions, they are trying to get a NHL team as well so the main use of the arena would be for sports (Sonics, Storm, NHL, maybe Arena Football?). northface made a good point too, several smaller cities in the region have successful convention centers as well so why not in Renton?

[PacificNW]

I never stated that Renton shouldn't have a convention center. What I was attempting to say was that the Sonics owner stating that a $500 million dollar could also attract National Political Conventions as a selling feature. I think it would be too far from downtown Seattle, and the large number of hotel rooms needed (which are concentrated dt Seattle), for a convention of this size to seriously consider Renton. In addition, it appears some powerful leaders of your state legislature are against funding this proposal.

[PDXPaul]

Yeah... 400 million... nooooo.

[uwhuskies]

:previous: PacificNW

Bellevue's Downtown is planning several very large hotels and more will probably follow if an Eastside arena is built. Frankly I don't understand why but it is a real phenomena that many Eastsiders would rather drive miles up and down the Eastside than to drive 5 miles across Lake Washington. There are many possible reasons but the fact is that Renton is at the apex of 2 major freeways (I-405 and SR-167) that will have major widening occur according to the Wa. State Dept of Trans., and the proposed site is like 7 miles south of Bellevue and 7 miles from SeaTac Int'l Airport.

Mass transit is not the best argument for the Key Arena site, because most fans drive and the Link and SLU systems will not be close enough to make much a difference to fans trying to get to a game that starts at 7pm. Most fans drive their cars, and the proposed site sits at the exit to I-405.

Although I am NOT a Sonics fan, I just understand the need to keep the entire community economically healthy (hmmm, maybe some selfish interest here?). Unfortunately, the opponents keep casting the argument as a food and shelter for the needy versus welfare for the rich.

The questions should be:

1) How will our community pay for social services when economic vitality drops and tax revenues follow? (Arena plan envisions using taxes as a result of its activities to fund building arena...this does not take into account if a NHL team were to also arrive which cant happen today because Key Arena is too small by NHL requirements)

2) How will the Key Arena's debt be paid off when the Arena is empty? (Just like the Kingdome, the Key's debt could be rolled into the financing package so Seattle folks won't have a gift that keeps giving. If the Sonics just leave, that does not mean the folks in Seattle don't need to pay--they will likely need to raise taxes to cover these costs)

3) Is it just me, or am I missing something here. Which option would everyone prefer?
Option A--Brand new stadium, 2 professional teams (Sonics, Storm and possibly an NHL team), tons of well-paying construction jobs, lots of fancy new condos, highrises, hotels, restaurants, things to do, a new facility for meetings, and without any LOCAL tax increase (current tax impacts tourist related activities), or

Option B--BYE, BYE Sonics. Hello $60 million dollars to retire the Key Arena debt, lower area hotel vacancy levels leading to cancelled projects, reduced number of jobs, fewer tourists, fewer restaurants, etc, and possibly higher local taxes. And, for those people who advocate for "more important things"....less revenue to support homeless people, schools, roads, etc.

I don't care if Mr Bennett and his buddies make a trillion dollars from their investment as long as our community reaps billions from HIS team being HERE!

[PacificNW]

↑↑This is a topic where no one is going to change anyone's thinking until the funding is in place and the lst spade of dirt is turned. I don't think the Sonics need a $500 million dollar arena. As I have said before: I seriously think this is a ploy by Mr. Bennett. He is asking for $300-$400 million knowing that the state will not support the proposal. He doesn't want a public vote. He will then claim a lack of support for his teams and move them to Oklahoma City, and trust me, I am far from the only one who feels this way. Prove me wrong. If you do....I will not be the least upset because I love the rivalry between the Sonics and Blazers. :)

[Fiat Lux]

Nick Lacata rocks!



Licata is scum. Just wait for Seattle to grovel for $ for the white elephant known as Key Arena. Licata, and idiot Seattle voters have either cost us more $ or a big hit to our reputation.

[Fiat Lux]

☝The point being why spend $500 million+ for an arena to attract conventions, etc. in Renton when the concentration of hotels/attractions are downtown Seattle?

Hey Oregon guy, do you know how close the Renton site is to the airport and a large # of hotel rooms? Ever hear of the Meydenbauer Center? I have been to more conventions there than any venue in Seattle. Downtown Renton is a focus point in this region and can become something special with its unique location along the lake, near the airport, close to Seattle, the Eastside, and the Valley.

[PacificNW]

Hey Washington boy...I just moved to Oregon. I have lived in Seattle (until recently) for over 20 years....I know where Renton is, smart "one" as well as the center in Bellevue. I have attended many events, as a matter of fact, in the Meydenbauer. One of the only reasons I am making any comments on your Sonics is my concern is if they relocate what this could mean for the Blazers....


http://www.newsok.com/video/100044

[Fiat Lux]

I think it would be too far from downtown Seattle, and the large number of hotel rooms needed (which are concentrated dt Seattle), for a convention of this size to seriously consider Renton.

Downtown Seattle isn't the only large concentration of hotels in the area. One of the three major hotel areas is just minutes up the freeway from the Renton site... The Double Tree is the 2nd largest hotel in the state, just 41 rooms less than the Westin flagship downtown.

[Fiat Lux]

Hey Washington boy...I just moved to Oregon. I have lived in Seattle (until recently) for over 20 years....
[/B]

I am no boy, boy.

Then you should know of the major concentration of hotels in Bellevue and near Sea-Tac, plus all the conventions in both places. Downtown Renton is a perfect place. In fact people have been talking about that area for a Sonics/NHL arena for over a decade. Now that Boeing is moving most of its operations to Bellevue, it opens up the lake to Renton. Watch hotels galore pop up after the arena comes in.

[PacificNW]

You sound as though it is a done deal...since I take it by your avatar you may have connections in Olympia......it sounds to me that the powers of Olympia are saying no tax extension without a public vote. Good luck.

[PacificNW]

I have a feeling the majority of delegates to the National Democratic/Republican Conventions would rather stay in hotels next to Renton and SeaTac than downtown Seattle, don't you? Seriously?

[northface]

well, when renton builds the landing, the new waterfront...(southport) which has a boardwalk and shops and resteraunts and future site of a new arena...i think its a defintie possibility. Renton wont be the same city in 5 years....take a look at the east renton highlands....hella homes going in....and they are all middle-to-upper class. then theres the 400 homes going in on Port Quendall....all 1million-3 million dollar homes....renton will become an "eastside" community soon...rather then the "southend"

[SeattleHusky82]

I have a feeling the majority of delegates to the National Democratic/Republican Conventions would rather stay in hotels next to Renton and SeaTac than downtown Seattle, don't you? Seriously?

I don't get why you are so fixated on the idea of political conventions at this arena. It was just an idea that Bennett suggested but it's far from the main purpose of this facility. The success of this arena does not hinge on if they can lure a political convention.

[PacificNW]

You are correct that it doesn't hinge but the reason Bennett wants a $500 million dollar arena, and all that it will provide, is to attract events such as the National Political conventions....I am trying to say that: 1. $500 million is too much to spend on an arena. 2. In attracting these kind of events (political or non political) most out-of-the area people attending "probably" would rather be closer to DT Seattle. 3. I still would like the Sonics to stay in the Seattle "area". 4. I do not like the idea of out of city owners threatening to move "their team" if they don't get their way. AND 5. That goes for Paul Allen if he tries to relocate the Blazers.

[uwhuskies]

:previous: How do you define "too much"?

Let's start in reverse...is one dollar reasonable for a multipurpose arena that will bring in enough TAX revenues to pay for a $300 million arena (Bennett's group and land donation take remainder), or risk losing the entire deal?

...continuing on...

How about two dollars.....etc (eventually reaching the $300 million)....what about $299,999,999? Hmmm, don't you think definitions such as "too much" are more in the eye of the beholder?

Everything is relative. How much are homes going for in your neighborhood? Is that "too much"? Not probably compared to neighborhoods in Medina, WA (Bill Gates neighborhood) but certainly more than in Hermiston, OR.

Seems as though (and this may not be your case) that many people just plain hate (or envy) rich people. I am not rich, but da*n it I sure want to have the best opportunity where I live NOW to become rich. These opportunities only flourish where a PRO-business climate flourishes. I wish the Northwest had a truly more "progressive" attitude which doesn't mean giving alcoholics a place to sleep for free and more booze!

:cool:

[PacificNW]

↑You know you can stick your condescending attitude up where the sun doesn't shine. I have nothing against Bill Gates, or people like him. In fact, I admire much of what he and his wife are doing for the health and benefit of many. I don't know much about Hermiston..I have never lived there, although they do have a high percentage of wealthy ranchers in the area.

If you think $500 million is cool, great. Don't be afraid to put the idea to the voters of King County.

[oilcan]

↑↑This is a topic where no one is going to change anyone's thinking until the funding is in place and the lst spade of dirt is turned. I don't think the Sonics need a $500 million dollar arena. As I have said before: I seriously think this is a ploy by Mr. Bennett. He is asking for $300-$400 million knowing that the state will not support the proposal. He doesn't want a public vote. He will then claim a lack of support for his teams and move them to Oklahoma City, and trust me, I am far from the only one who feels this way. Prove me wrong. If you do....I will not be the least upset because I love the rivalry between the Sonics and Blazers. :)

Horrible situation all the way but exactly can't be nieve about this one... .. Bennett will be a hero back in his native state for this one.. hit a real road block...

Obviously no secret to local area folks but for anyone else reading.

Just a blurb out of Forbes magazine Thurs:

The NBA team's new owners, led by Bennett, want to leave KeyArena. If Bennett doesn't get an agreement for a new arena in the Seattle area by Oct. 31, his $350 million purchase agreement allows him to move the team to Oklahoma, where he is a prominent businessman

Damn..... nice shiney new stadium IN Seattle built back during the "Renovation" of key arena would of been nice.. smack in downtown area.... Now it's suburbs, where the hell are we going to get the money? ohhh now were going to loose our team.... The Seattle Economics...

[seaskyfan]

I voted yes last November and I'm a big Nick Licata fan.

I'm frankly not interested in subsidizing the NBA's failed business model and I don't think for one second that the OKC folks are seriously trying to stay in the NW.

Voters around here are still angry about the Mariner's stadium and when they talk about it they talk about voting no on both of the other new stadiums (even though the Seahawks stadium won at the ballot box). I've sat in on a lot of focus groups over the years and I think the King County folks are making the right call by insisting on a public vote.

[bedir than average]

seaskyfan, SoDo would be an absolute dump if the Mariners and Seahawks weren't there. The KingDome was literally falling apart and the Mariners were going to leave. If the Mariners left and the state had to fund hundreds of millions of dollars to get the old Dome up to snuff I doubt the Seahawks stay either.

There have been dozens of positive growth projects down there that have turned one of the blights of Seattle into a highlight for locals and tourists.

[seaskyfan]

seaskyfan, SoDo would be an absolute dump if the Mariners and Seahawks weren't there. The KingDome was literally falling apart and the Mariners were going to leave. If the Mariners left and the state had to fund hundreds of millions of dollars to get the old Dome up to snuff I doubt the Seahawks stay either.

There have been dozens of positive growth projects down there that have turned one of the blights of Seattle into a highlight for locals and tourists.

I wasn't talking about my personal stance on the SODO stadiums, only that elected officials still get a lot of crap from voters about the "emergency" declaration that the legislature used to make the Safeco possible. I think they should have tried a second time with the Mariners and it would have passed - they miscalculated by having it on the primary ballot.

I think the King County Council folks are showing sound political instincts by insisting on a vote before giving the Sonics any $$.

[bedir than average]

I just hope the vote includes the area from which fans come. The Mariners vote was absurd as it was only the county and more than 50% of fans at that time came from outside of King County. Now that number is even higher.

[MrVandelay]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2007/02/26/2003590448.jpg


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2007/02/26/2003590454.jpg

[MrVandelay]

Sonics release drawings of proposed arena
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/basketball/305210_arena26ww.html
By GREG JOHNS
P-I REPORTER

After months of blind conjecture, Clay Bennett and his partners put a visual face on their new arena concept Monday with the release of architectural drawings of the proposed Sonics' facility.

The public -- as well as lawmakers -- can now picture the 20,000-seat building Bennett has planned for the Renton site that was announced two weeks earlier.

As expected, the $500-million project would be a rather glamorous addition to the current Boeing property at the south end of Lake Washington.

Large glass exteriors and open walkways would greet visitors to a massive structure nearly double the size of KeyArena.

Bennett unveiled the drawings in Olympia on Monday night, while meeting with members of the House Finance Committee. Jim Kneeland, a spokesman for Bennett, said this step is important in letting people know the size and scope of the proposed arena.

"We think it's critical," Kneeland said. "It gives people a sense of the magnitude of the project. Compared to KeyArena, it's a much larger and more-flexible venue."

The proposed facility will be about 730,000 square feet, according to Kneeland. KeyArena stands at 400,000 square feet. That figure does not include parking structures also planned for the Renton project.

"It will have bold concourses and more room for people and events before entering the (arena) bowl," Kneeland said.

Picture a facility with not only increased restroom and food vending areas, but restaurants and perhaps a nightclub, along with office and practice space for the Sonics and other tenants.

"We want a venue where people want to spend more time, not just come five minutes before the game and leave five minutes before it's over," said Kneeland. "We want to create a place where people want to linger."

Only exterior views were released Monday. Kneeland said interior design is underway and views of those aspects could be expected within the next month.HOK Sport has designed numerous sports facilities around the country, including Denver's Pepsi Center and Atlanta' Philips Arena, two multi-purpose arenas housing NBA and NHL franchises.

The company also has designed six NFL stadiums and seven Major League Baseball facilities.

Both the Denver and Atlanta arenas were completed in 1999. The Pepsi Center seats 19,000 for basketball and was built for $160 million. It has since hosted the 2001 NHL All-Star Game, the 2005 NBA All-Star Game and will be home to the 2008 Democratic National Convention.

Philips Arena seats just over 20,000 for basketball and cost $213.5 million. HOK went with a unique design on that Atlanta facility, putting all the luxury and club seating on one side of the court. Kneeland said that sort of arrangement isn't being considered by Bennett.

Atlanta hosted the 2003 NBA All-Star game and will put on the NHL All-Star Game in 2008.

Bennett has stressed that the proposed arena in Renton would be a similar multi-purpose facility capable of housing NBA, NHL and various entertainment events.

First, however, comes the challenge of convincing state and county officials to help fund the project. Bennett is stressing that the proposed Senate Bill 5986 would only extend current taxes that are paying off debts on Safeco Field, Qwest Field and the Kingdome.

Kneeland said the momentum of naming a site and coming out with a conceptual design now needs to carry over to public understanding of that issue.

"We need people to get a better understanding of the financial element, that this can happen without any tax increase," he said. "And also that a truly multi-use facility like this building can be a tax-revenue generator through events and business conventions that KeyArena wasn't designed to host."

[oilcan]

Sharp looking arena

HOK sports venue and entertainment are at the top of ladder when it comes to design.. Same company hired for the Martin Stadium expansion in Pullman. At least they have a visual in all this chaos.. thats a start.. Still doubtfull... County is stuck in a hard place and the owner has...... OOOOklahooooma.. on his mind..

[Dougall5505]

it looks good but it would look a lot better if it was next to safeco field and qwest field and they were all surrounded by high rise condos

[oilcan]

it looks good but it would look a lot better if it was next to safeco field and qwest field and they were all surrounded by high rise condos

I second that.. We have one stadium in the heart of downtown where I live for the NBA team (vivarant).. then one in BFE in the "burbs" for the NHL team (lame).. Just something to be said about a stadium/arena in the core of the city...

[SeattleHusky82]

The arena looks gorgeous! I'm still doubtful about this being approved but for now, we can dare to dream.

[James Bond Agent 007]

I guess it'll look interesting when you pass through Renton on I-405.

[Capitol Hill]

DOA

I think that the residents of Washington State don't feel the need for the basketball teams. Will the community lose something? Yes, but I think the majority of residents think that it's okay.

[NW Mike]

Speak for yourself and not the entire city or region. Many people want this to go through. The F****** Media like to distort our thinking and show false surveys of what the whole region wants.

[Capitol Hill]

Well, then it is incumbent on your side to convince the region that this is best. I don't think it is, and I have yet to speak to anybody, Republican, Democrat, independent, urban or suburban who is in support of this.

I've even spoken to people who used to be season ticket holders who've said, regarding the whole situation, 'good riddance.'

So if you want to flame me, go right ahead. But sit back and listen to what people are saying. I haven't been hearing people fretting about the Sonics/Storm moving, they've become more resigned to them leaving, and don't seem that disturbed.

And yes, I am speaking for myself and my observations. I would be interested to hear what large group of people in the region are firmly behind a $300 million welfare payment to the basketball team owners. Bennett is somewhat softening on not wanting a public vote on the matter, but isn't it telling that he didn't want that vote in the first place? The thought seems to be that there wouldn't be a chance for the financing to pass a public vote, and Bennett indicated that. So if the general public isn't willing to support it for a vote, knowing that the team will leave, is it really an amenity we need or want? You say yes, NWMike, I say, I can live without it. And from my observations, the majority seem to be on the same page as me, but Lord knows I've been wrong before.



Vancouver survived basketball leaving, Los Angeles survived football leaving. Seattle/Greater Puget Sound will survive basketball leaving.

[seaskyfan]

I'm with Capitol Hill. I think the arena is DOA. These folks are just messing around before they throw up their hands and go to OKC.

[oilcan]

Whoops...


A nasty storm brewing in Seattle
By LZ Granderson
Page 2

The NBA is once again in a bit of a pickle over this whole gay issue, but this time it has nothing to do with Tim Hardaway or John Amaechi. It does, however, have everything to do with David Stern's propensity to turn a blind eye to the discriminatory actions of the league's owners.


I first brought this topic up a year ago, after Utah Jazz owner Larry Miller abruptly pulled "Brokeback Mountain" from his movie theater upon discovering the film's subject matter. Back then I said Miller's actions were akin to pulling "Glory Road" after he learned the black team won. But that incident didn't raise much dust because, well, it didn't involve money.


However, in Seattle, money is involved.





AP Photo/Michael Conroy
The Sonics might be celebrating their victories somewhere else soon.The city is all abuzz right now because it's been discovered that Howard "Starbucks" Schultz sold the Seattle SuperSonics and Storm to a conglomerate that features two principals who practically bankrolled an anti-gay marriage group. According to the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, the Americans United to Preserve Marriage, an organization led by conservative former presidential candidate Gary Bauer, spent $1.3 million during 2004-06, of which about $1.1 million was donated by Oklahoma City businessmen Aubrey McClendon and Tom Ward.


This places the league in a precarious situation, because the new ownership is looking to the legislature to approve a taxpayer subsidy for a new arena that costs somewhere around $500 million. This is the same legislature that is expected to approve domestic-partner benefits this year. And if they don't get the new arena, the new owners are free to pack up and move the teams -- with the most likely landing spot being Oklahoma City, where the ownership group is based.


Given the liberal leanings of the people of Seattle, and the Sonics' record, I would think the last thing the NBA wants to see is the fate of one of its oldest franchises come to a vote. But there's a good chance that's exactly what's going to happen.


And I think that's exactly what Stern and the NBA deserve.


Given the extreme care taken in approving the purchasing and selling of NBA franchises, I find it difficult to believe the league was unaware of the activities of McClendon and Ward. But the decision was made that what owners do with their own time and their own money has no bearing on their abilities to own and run a team. And technically, I agree with that. But I find it hypocritical for the NBA to hang Hardaway out to dry for expressing his personal feelings on a very divisive topic while simultaneously cashing the check from a pair of men whose off-the-court activities suggest on some level they agree with him. (Hardaway was representing the NBA in an official capacity at the All-Star Game, but was sent home after his comments, with David Stern saying, "It is inappropriate for him to be representing us given the disparity between his views and ours.") Beyond saying he hated gay people, Hardaway said he didn't think they should be allowed to live in this country. McClendon and Ward support an organization that doesn't believe gay people should have equal rights. Hardaway's comments were inflammatory but those two ideologies are not that far apart.


But actions speak louder than words. And money is louder than both of them.


The situation in Seattle had become unpleasant, as Schultz was unable to get a new arena built and desperately wanted out. The league needed a resolution, and selling the franchise to the new group provided one. Ridding the NBA of the vulgar tongue of a former player was easy. Turning away billionaires with the potential to cure a headache is a bit more difficult.


I actually admire the work Stern has done, and believe he truly wants a tolerant and diverse NBA. But running a league is a fairly political process, and sometimes you have to know when to fight and when to cut your losses. I get it. I don't like it, but I get it.


The bottom line is: Stern could have stopped this transaction long ago. He didn't. So now here's where we stand: Eventually it may come down to the left-leaning people of Seattle deciding if they want to help line the pockets of men who aggressively fund anti-gay organizations or say goodbye to their first professional franchise.


It's a tough choice, but life is full of tough choices.


Stern made his. Now Seattle, the ball's in your court.

[herb]

:previous: I'd say the choice has never been easier.

[Capitol Hill]

As a gay man, I'm not that offended by the ownership's contribution to the anti-marriage efforts. I'm not thrilled, but I guess I take a pragmatic view that if not them, someone else would step up to the plate.

I'm more offeneded that people who were all for welfare reform in the '90s haven't stepped up to the plate to put an end to corporate welfare.

[PacificNW]

As a gay man, I disagree with Capitol Hill's point of not being offended by Sonic ownership's political viewpoint since they are asking for "state" support for their arena plans. But since I don't live in King County/Washington state anymore it is not my place to go into detail supporting my views. I do agree with his "welfare" views.

[Capitol Hill]

Allow me to clarify:

I find their views offensive. I'm just aware that if not them supporting it (the marriage ban), someone else would. What I find interesting to see how the NBA's 'gay problem' will play out.

And your point of using state funds to help a group that goes against some of our laws is very valid (anti discrimination recently added sexual orientation), and might just sway my opinion, I'll be thinking it over some more.

[James Bond Agent 007]

Maybe the folks who own Southcenter won't have to worry about all that extra retail in Renton after all.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/basketball/310885_arena10.html

Last updated April 9, 2007 11:55 a.m. PT
Sonics reach deal on Renton property
P-I STAFF

The Sonics have reached an agreement in principal to acquire a 21.2-acre parcel of land in Renton on which they hope to build a $500 million arena.

The Boeing-owned property had been controlled by Harvest Partners, the Dallas-based developer of The Landing, a 68-acre urban village in Renton's South Lake Washington neighborhood.

The Landing was to include retail development on the parcel targeted by the Sonics for their future home, and as recently as 12 days ago, a Harvest Partners spokesman said the developer had no intention of transferring its control of the land.

But Monday, Harvest Partners reached an agreement in principal to assign its rights to the Sonics.

"We have been involved in extensive recent discussions and expect to have a signed definitive agreement soon," Eliot Barnett, managing general partner of Harvest Partners, said in a statement.

Said Sonics owner Clay Bennett: "We both see excellent potential for The Landing and the new events center and believe that together they would provide even greater economic, cultural and other benefits to the City of Renton, the region and the state."

[northface]

hmm, interesting. I went by the landing yesterday and like all the walls are already built for the target and some other buildings....going up quick. they are now working on all the condos too and theres 2 cranes up there.

[PacificNW]

http://www.nwcn.com/sports/stories/NW_041607SSBsonicsarenaKC.17c610bc.html

Lawmakers won't vote on Sonics arena this session

08:02 PM PDT on Monday, April 16, 2007
KING5.com & Associated Press
OLYMPIA, Wash. - The Washington state Legislature will not vote on a measure to help finance a new $500 million arena for the Seattle SuperSonics this legislative session, leaders said Monday night.

Related Content
Renton mayor Kathy Keolker on the arena
At a meeting involving Gov. Chris Gregoire and House and Senate leaders, lawmakers came to the conclusion that there simply wasn't enough time to decide the issue before the session adjourns on April 22. But they said the issue was not dead.

"We were running out of time," said Sen. Margarita Prentice, D-Renton, and the arena's strongest champion.

Monday's caucus came after Gregoire convened a Saturday meeting to gauge support among Republicans and Democrats in the House and Senate.

Last Friday, Prentice's committee, the Senate Ways and Means Committee, approved a $278 million package of local taxes to help build the new events center in Prentice's hometown of Renton, south of Seattle. The proposed facility would hold at least 15,000 fans and could accommodate conventions and other sports.

But the plan has run into stiff opposition in the state House, where discussions among House Democrats have been lukewarm, and where the powerful speaker, Rep. Frank Chopp of Seattle, had all but pronounced the plan dead.

Bennett, of Oklahoma City, has asked the Legislature for $300 million in public money for the facility, which could cost in excess of $500 million. The city of Renton has been asked to contribute money as well, but that amount hasn't been determined yet.

The NBA team's new ownership is seeking to replace Seattle's KeyArena. If Bennett doesn't get an agreement for a new arena in the Seattle area by Oct. 31, his $350 million purchase agreement allows him to move the team to Oklahoma, where he and his Sonics co-owners are prominent businessmen.

The Sonics measure is Senate Bill 5986.


Statement by Clay Bennett on Lack of Action on Legislation Authorizing King County to Develop a Multipurpose Events Center

This a staggering and quite likely a debilitating blow to our efforts to develop a world-class arena facility. Clearly at this time the Sonics and Storm have little hope of remaining in the Puget Sound region.

We believe we have gone to extraordinary lengths with significant time and resources to craft a proposal for a global caliber multi-purpose event facility that would be a valuable public asset for the region for years to come and have minimal impact on taxpayers. By its inaction the Legislature has delivered the message that they are indifferent to the notion of the Sonics and the Storm leaving the market.

We remain willing and available to work with the Governor and the Legislature to explore every conceivable funding option for the building. We are also receptive to analyzing any private financing mechanisms that are brought to our attention. But at this time we have no other concepts on the table.

We want to recognize Senator Margarita Prentice and Representative Eric Pettigrew for their courageous leadership in the Legislature. We also want to thank the good people of Renton who have enthusiastically supported these efforts. In addition we wish to thank the many supporters and advocates who have worked hard on our behalf.

As owners we remain absolutely committed to restoring the Sonics to a championship caliber team – on this subject we will not waver.

Further we are committed to delivering the very best fan experience and sponsor value that we can.

We thank our fans, season ticket holders and sponsors from the bottom of our heart. We also thank our professional staff, our players and coaching staff, all of our friends who work at Key Arena and everyone who has believed in us.

[James Bond Agent 007]

Bennett is now saying it looks like the Sonics are gone:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003669052_websonicleg16.html

[Seasun]

Refreshing. See ya Sonics. A few nights ago I was inside Key Arena watching the T-birds play against Vancouver. The seats almost seemed new - oh wait - they are almost new. And there were lots of luxury suites ringing the arena that looked very comfortable. Only if players were paid an average of say $100K and the ownership group survived on donations like arts groups or schools - I'd consider giving them significant tax revenues. The whole thing just makes me gag.

From http://www.newsok.com/article/3041607

Hopes grow dim in Seattle that Washington politicians can save the SuperSonics. And if the Sonics' Oklahoma City-based owners know sooner rather than later that a new arena is not possible, they could and almost surely would campaign to leave Seattle immediately.

No one is interested in a lame-duck season.

The Washington legislative session ends Sunday, with the Sonics needing passage of a bill that would allow King County voters to decide on taxation that would largely fund a new arena in suburban Renton.

Midnight deals always are possible, especially when it comes to something as high profile as a major league sports franchise, but what little momentum existed in Olympia for a vote in the Washington Senate and House seemed ready to crash Monday night. Gov. Christine Gregoire met with legislative leaders to gauge support for the arena plan, and Sonic boosters seemed on the verge of surrender.

What does that mean for Oklahoma City? It means the Sonics owners might have time to request relocation this summer.

The NBA deadline for relocation request was March 1, but all things are negotiable, including the Sonics' lease through summer 2010 at Seattle's KeyArena.

The Sonic owners, led by Clay Bennett, clearly have demonstrated that they prefer to stay in Seattle, with a new arena. But they also have clearly stated that without the arena, they will leave their home of 40 seasons.

Bennett's group vowed to give Seattle a full year from the Oct. 31 purchase date to settle on an arena plan, but if the legislative session ends without a plan, there is no alternative. No other funding plan exists. The only hope would be a special session, and if a bill can't even get to a vote in the Senate, which is more much receptive to public funding than is the House, how could a special session possibly be warranted?

Barring a miracle, this week holds Seattle's hopes. If the session ends, the Sonics will start making plans to scram, and soon. Bennett, like any owner in sport, wants no part of a season in which a city and its fans, and a franchise and its players, knows is the last hurrah. The Sonics would take a financial bath, and the city would suffer constant embarrassment.

Far better to barter to put a quick end to the relationship.

Would NBA owner David Stern endorse such a quick exit? I don't know. He wouldn't like it; it wouldn't look good. He also wouldn't like that lame-duck season, which would look even worse.

Bennett has been a huge friend to the NBA. A contributor to the stability of the Spurs in San Antonio, when he was on its board of directors, and the point man in the rescue of the Hornets after Katrina swamped New Orleans.

The Hornets were a raging success in Oklahoma City because of the efforts of OKC's business community and the civic government, and Bennett was the main reason why. The NBA owes Bennett big time and knows it.

If Bennett cashed in his chips by asking the league to waive the March 1 deadline, I don't see how it could say no. Logistics are no problem; the Hornets' Year 1 had a six-week time frame to get ready in Oklahoma City. The Sonics could have six months to get ready.

Truth is, here's the biggest sticking point to instant relocation: Making sure Oklahoma City is the proper home for the Sonics.

Despite the hometown ties, the Sonic owners paid premium dollar for the franchise: $350 million. The four primaries — Bennett, Aubrey McClendon, Tom Ward and G. Jeffrey Records — each ponied up about $70 million. They are Oklahoma City businessmen; we like to focus on that OKC part, but don't forget the businessmen part.

The NBA at the Ford Center must make long-term financial sense for these guys, just like it would for George Shinn or anyone else who might put a franchise here.

It's quite possible that Bennett would scope out other cities, Kansas City and Anaheim, primarily, and see what's out there. He owes it to himself and his partners to explore all possibilities.

But at the end of the day, it would be very difficult for men who grew up in Oklahoma City to put an NBA franchise somewhere else. At the end of the day, I say they would bring the Sonics here. At the end of a day this week, even.

[seaskyfan]

I'm glad to see they didn't get the $$ from the Legislature. I am curious about their move to OKC - I wonder if the NBA is cool with someone moving a team from a metro of around 4 million to one that's a bit over 1 million?

[LA Guy]

^No not at all. The Sonics lose a lot of value if they move from Seattle. It's not like going from Minneapolis to LA. The NBA will not go for teamless in Seattle. With its huge corporate base, Seattle is a really powerful city and important market. It is known world-wide.

[PacificNW]

⬆ How many years has it been that the NFL and LA been trying to get a team in LA since the Rams left? The Sonics still may remain in Seattle, or relocate. The story, I doubt, is over. If they leave, the NBA, no doubt, will try to get a team back in Seattle, ASAP. But like LA it could take awhile.

[Black Box]

^No not at all. The Sonics lose a lot of value if they move from Seattle. It's not like going from Minneapolis to LA. The NBA will not go for teamless in Seattle. With its huge corporate base, Seattle is a really powerful city and important market. It is known world-wide.

Maybe the Sonics do lose some value if they relocate to OKC. Who knows, maybe the new team in OKC will be the one of the most successful and valuable teams, but Seattleites are sick of subsidizing professional sports facilities and really, we will not lose our value over this. Los Angeles has not, Seattle will not. I am not dismissing what the franchise has meant to the city, nor what local programs the franchise was involved in, but this is nothing to lose sleep over, there are so many other things to worry about. Hit the highway, Clay.

[Hoodrat]

As a basketball fan (though not really the Sonics), I think the legislature totally blew it on this one.

It just seems like a case where the poor record of the team, coupled with the regions (still) disgruntled populace over the last two stadiums, as well as the whole hippy, earth mama, lesbo, anti-male/anti-competition vibe that you get up here just doomed the Sonics to life in another town.

At least Detroit still has the Pistons...

[Dougall5505]

do you think that when the sonics move there will be many more seattle area blazer fans? It could become similar to the relationship portland has with the mariners and seahawks. I know I am I fan of those teams and often drive up to seattle to catch a game

[Black Box]

^If I were a basketball fan, yes, I would cheer for the Portland Trailblazers.

[InlandEmpire]

I could care less about whether the Sonics stay or not; and most people I know feel the same way having more loyalty to the Mariners and Seahawks. The tax rate in King County is already high, and like it was said earlier, Los Angeles has lost none of it's prestige by losing pro sports teams. Seattle is much more than the Sonics. I am sorry that people that are loyal fans will be affected, but go see the Blazers! The Rose Garden is a great venue!

[SEA-TOWN]

do you think that when the sonics move there will be many more seattle area blazer fans? It could become similar to the relationship portland has with the mariners and seahawks. I know I am I fan of those teams and often drive up to seattle to catch a game

If the Sonics left and no one came in I would say yes. It would take some time but it would happen.

[PacificNW]

http://www.nwcn.com/sports/stories/NW_041707WABsonicsarenabennettTP.1c0b460c.html

Sonics may break Key Arena lease

08:03 AM PDT on Wednesday, April 18, 2007
By ROBERT MAK / KING 5 News
Related Content
Robert Mak reports on what Bennett is saying Tuesday night
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Sonics majority owner Clay Bennett says if there is no deal to keep professional basketball in the Puget Sound region, the team will probably leave Key Arena before its lease is up in 2010.

The Sonics owner is expressing his disappointment after the legislature on Monday refused to vote on any Sonics tax package.

"It was very clear to me, the votes weren't there," said Governor Christine Gregoire. "And so there's no purpose in putting them through a vote when it was very clear, that the votes just weren't there."

The team had proposed $500 million arena in Renton, and wanted state lawmakers to authorize $300 million in taxes on hotels, car rentals and restaurants.



KING
Seattle Center's Key Arena
But many lawmakers, including house speaker Frank Chopp do not see building a new arena as a priority this year.

With the legislature set to adjourn Sunday, the Governor does not see calling them back for the Sonics.

That's disappointing news to Bennett, who spoke to KING 5 on Tuesday.

"It's clear that the speaker, and Ross Hunter and others have no interest and no intentions of supporting this legislation, and so I think we need to move on," said Bennett.

Bennett says he's willing to continue negotiating until October, but he's not holding out much hope.

"Well, it's certainly over for that public concept, for that public investment now we're going to continue to work hard on understanding what other private models may be out there, what other creative financing structures may be out there," said Bennett.

Bennett also said it's possible the Sonics might break their lease at Seattle's Key Arena before it expires in 2010. Bennett says he doesn't think an arena can be built without public dollars, but he is talking with banks and financial experts about ways to use private financing

[Fiat Lux]

Keep an eye on the Associated Grocers site, which is adjacent to a potential future light rail station, as a potential arena site:

http://sonicscentral.com/blog/?p=1376#more-1376

I think the location is perfect and would get a lot of people who wouldn't normally ride light rail onto light rail.

Also, the Muckleshoots are being very proactive in being a possible solution. The Seattle area is working hard to save the Sonics, I hope the NBA and David Stern see this so they block any moves.

Sonics arena is feasible in Auburn, tribe consultant says (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003821126_sonics04m.html)

Muckleshoots forge ahead with arena plans (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/basketball/326350_arena04.html)

[WESTSEATTLEGUY]

Sonics in Auburn!?!?!?!? Gross. :yuck:

[Fiat Lux]

Sonics in Auburn!?!?!?!? Gross. :yuck:

Better there than out of the state. Since the city clowncil did so much damage early on, the solution will most likely happen outside of Seattle proper, unless it is the Sabey site which straddles Tukwila, or a miracle.

I hope it is the Sabey (AG) site.

[WESTSEATTLEGUY]

^Ya, I hope so too. I have this vivid image in my head of a massive arena surrounded by evergreens next to the Muckleshoots casino. I'm haunted by this image. LOL. :haha:

[Fiat Lux]

^ The Muckelshoots would build it next to Emerald Downs on some land they own.

[Fred Savage Man Boy]

Pretty bad news on the SuperSonics front today:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003834577_websonics13.html

"Sonics minority owner Aubrey McClendon insists team owners have made good-faith efforts to secure an arena deal in the Seattle area, despite comments to an Oklahoma City newspaper that he always meant for the team to move there.

McClendon said in a profile published today by The Journal Record, "we didn't buy the team to keep it in Seattle; we hoped to come here."

....

In his comments to The Journal Record, McClendon, chief executive of natural gas producer Chesapeake Energy, acknowledged the NBA team would make more money if it stayed put in the Pacific Northwest, but said financial difficulty won't be what prevents the team from moving to Oklahoma City.

"We know it's a little more difficult financially here in Oklahoma City, but we think it's great for the community and if we could break even we'd be thrilled," he told the newspaper, also saying he was "under a self-imposed gag order" in regards to the business end of the Sonics.

....

"They take pride in Seattle not needing a NBA team to be considered a world-class city. That's probably true, they don't," he said.

After noting the Sonics were going through ownership challenges, Bennett made a move for the team last year.

And "to the great amazement and surprise to everyone in Seattle, some rednecks from Oklahoma, which we've been called, made off with the team," said McClendon.

______________________________

Also here's an opinion piece from ESPN: http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-27-49/Steamed-in-Seattle.html

I guess you can't really be suprised, it's been pretty obvious from the start that their intention was to get back to Oklahoma City. However, you'd figure someone in McClendon's postion would be smart enough to not let the cat out of the bag when they're still "negotiating" for an arena deal.

[Sioux612]

Well, there is the Portland Trailblazers.

[James Bond Agent 007]

^ ^
We already knew that anyway.

[ski82]

I think this thing could be far from over. This minority owner should have kept his mouth shut in the interest of their own intentions.

As a team in the NBA, the owners have an obligation to other owners to be as profitable as possible. I am pretty sure that a move would require the vote of other owners. With things like the luxury tax in play, why would any other owner vote for a move when it is less financially viable? The OKC group might be businessmen, but they aren't really acting like it with these comments.

These comments also show how this group has been toying with the city and state. Their moves are calculated and demands just out of reach, knowing that if they get what they want they will have robbed the craddle blind. Really, given their true intentions, it is a waste of the legislators' time and a waste of public resources. The group has known it all along. Pitiful if you ask me.

This is where I feel bad (relatively) for Shultz. He is too vested in the community to even threaten a move and get people talking about a new government funded arena. Like it or not, this is the way most new sports complexes are built and he needed it to happen to stay competitive and grow his investment. He sells and looks like the guy who let this happen. If a city or state is going to blow money on something, better it be a stadium or something else that contributes to an areas identity or brand.