[Stephen Ave]

As Everyone knows there will be a significant amount of cultural space involved in the Encana tower project. There has been talk of bringing the national portrait gallery to this space, or maybe having a dedicated art gallery in it. Maybe there is something else that would be better suited for it. What do you think?


Here are some renderings of the project. They were taken by Blue_Cypress using his cameraphone so they are a little bit fuzzy.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/157/397275241_726b9adbc6_o.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/148/397280330_ebadd40f28_o.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/170/397281615_b5670d2f8f_o.jpg

[Habanero]

+A new science centre right downtown would be kinda cool.

[Calgarian]

Skateboarding?

[Bigtime]

Well I think we can rule the science centre out since they are already moving to North of the zoo.

My vote went to a dedicated art gallery. I can picture something along the lines of the MOMA in New York, multi-level and very modern. That would be a cultural coupe for us!

[Grendel]

I'd like to see more venues around Calgary for the arts, but I don't think that the Bow is the place for it. The culture of the oilpatch is deeply conservative, and this building will represent the image that EnCana projects to its colleagues and the world. As a result, I find it highly unlikely that EnCana will be able to find any room in this cultural space for any truly original or creative art. Sadly, there's no shortage of existing venues in Calgary to go see derivative, unchallenging, meaningless and boring art. Having said that, I think that the scale and prestige of the building would be a perfectly appropriate place to have the National Portrait Gallery.

[HomeInMyShoes]

I'm thinking sculpture gallery. The space looks to have quite a bit of direct lighting which sculpture is usually good with, but painting/drawing is usually a bad idea. It's also got some decent outdoor plaza space which would be good for some outdoor monumental sculpture.

Otherwise, I'd probably go science centre, although I sort of like stuff like that to have park around it for the kids as opposed to just more buildings in the downtown core.

I voted dedicated art gallery for the sculpture.

[Wooster]

I voted National Portrait Gallery. It has a cache and prominence that is that well matched to this project.

I understand the argument that it is a waste that the facilities were built in Ottawa, but my selfish side really doesn't give a shit. If EnCana pays the cost of making the gallery work here, then fine. The national archives building in La Cité Gatineau is not exclusively for portrait storage, I am sure they will find uses for it. I want it in Calgary. It would be a huge boon for the city.

At the same time, I really want a dedicated public art gallery. If this is not the opportunity for that, I hope another comes up soon. Maybe in Imperial, in a similar format to MoMA????

Science Centre, I wish was staying where it is. It is a good location and a kick ass building. I guess it works out by the zoo as well.

Library clearly needs its own building. The current location is great. That will be another amazing project.

[walli]

I'm thinking sculpture gallery. The space looks to have quite a bit of direct lighting which sculpture is usually good with, but painting/drawing is usually a bad idea. It's also got some decent outdoor plaza space which would be good for some outdoor monumental sculpture.

I really like that idea - there isn't much of this in Canada overall, and plus, the entire project is a sort of sculpture also.

On the negative side, I'm sure the energy industry will contribute one of their old drill bits as the first sculpture :(

[skrish]

I picked the National Portrait Gallery. I just think it would be a great addition to the city.

[Coldrsx]

what about a national oil/mining museum...

[walli]

what about a national oil/mining museum...

I wouldn't consider such a thing as a 'national' museum. It creates a stigma.

Frankly, I think galleries and museums should be such that they attract people who are not already knowledgeable about the area. I think an oil/mining museum would only really attract oil/mining people. That being said, perhaps an area of the new Science Centre can be dedicated to oil/mining.

For EnCana, if the Glenbow is a no-go (which is what it seems), and art, portrait or sculpture gallery would be the best IMHO.

In addition, I think an area about city planning and architecture would be interesting also. This would be quite unique, and could highlight various international high calibre projects, including the Bow development, but also similar transformational projects in other cities/countries. The beauty about something like that would be its direct connection to the overall project within which it would sit, and also that new material would always be coming down the pipe (such as the toronto waterfront development, the world trade centre project, Dubai projects, various museum projects globally, etcetera). Now that would be cool!!! [the USA has a National Building Museum]

[feepa]

I picked "Other" Other for how about a warming shelter for all the bums that hang out downtown, and east of downtown

[Surrealplaces]

what about a national oil/mining museum...

A national oil/mining musuem is a good idea, but not for the Bow. I'd like to see something more interesting and exciting for the Bow.
Something like a smaller scale of the musuem of science and industry in Chicago would be cool, but a oil/mining museum seems kind of boring.
I voted 'dedicated art gallery', but would be just as happy with the National portrait gallery.

[Coldrsx]

science and industry...yup doesnt sound like mining and O&G to me.

[SHOFEAR]

I think some sort of Calgary Sports Museum would be cool. Not sure if one exists or not...

[Boris2k7]

We had a O&G type centre already (which I don't think is around anymore). It was very small and rather boring IMHO.

[Surrealplaces]

science and industry...yup doesnt sound like mining and O&G to me.

I guess it depends on what you would have in the museum as an O&G museum. I was thinking oil derricks, soil samples, and seizmic trucks. Which is quite different than the Science Industry musuem in Chicago. I thik a proper one like the one in Chicago would need a bigger venue anyway.

The best use IMO is an art museum/gallery.

[Surrealplaces]

I think some sort of Calgary Sports Museum would be cool. Not sure if one exists or not...

That would be good, although given the successs of Calgary sport teams it might be a rather small museum. ;)

If we didn't already have the Tyrell museum, The Bow would have been a great spot for it.

[walli]

I think some sort of Calgary Sports Museum would be cool. Not sure if one exists or not...

Though the brainstorming is good, I think some of the suggestions are 'low-balling' the opportunity.

I'm really liking the idea of a city planning and architecture museum. Here is my 'refined' post from the Calgary construction thread. [promise not to re-post it again - I just want to make sure people read it in a thoughtful manner]

---
I think a gallery / museum about city planning and architecture would be very interesting. This would be quite unique, and could highlight various international high calibre projects, including the Bow development, but also similar transformational projects in other cities/countries. The beauty about something like that would be its direct connection to the overall project within which it would sit, and also that new material would always be coming down the pipe (such as the toronto waterfront development, the world trade centre project, Dubai projects, various museum projects globally, etcetera). In addition, I think there could be a strategic partnership with the UofC's urban planning area, which would be moving to East Village.

[AUM]

I voted for a dedicated gallery. I envy Winnipeg for having the WAG. I wish that we could have a contemporary art gallery in this city. The early efforts of the IMCA crashed. Even Edmonton is potentially going to get theirs. It would be great for us to have something with that much cultural significance.

[Rob D]

I picked "Other" Other for how about a warming shelter for all the bums that hang out downtown, and east of downtown

I always enjoy your positive contributions to the thread :koko:

[The Chemist]

I picked "Other" Other for how about a warming shelter for all the bums that hang out downtown, and east of downtown

Jealousy is not a virtue. If you have nothing positive to contribute, please don't bother posting. Thanks.

[SHOFEAR]

Though the brainstorming is good, I think some of the suggestions are 'low-balling' the opportunity.

I'm really liking the idea of a city planning and architecture museum. Here is my 'refined' post from the Calgary construction thread. [promise not to re-post it again - I just want to make sure people read it in a thoughtful manner]

---
I think a gallery / museum about city planning and architecture would be very interesting. This would be quite unique, and could highlight various international high calibre projects, including the Bow development, but also similar transformational projects in other cities/countries. The beauty about something like that would be its direct connection to the overall project within which it would sit, and also that new material would always be coming down the pipe (such as the toronto waterfront development, the world trade centre project, Dubai projects, various museum projects globally, etcetera). In addition, I think there could be a strategic partnership with the UofC's urban planning area, which would be moving to East Village.

I'd be very interested in seeing that, as well as checking up time to time to see new projects. I just question the appeal it would have to the masses.

[Xelebes]

ROLLER COASTERS!!!!!!


lol

[ExcaliburKid]

Make it a sweet opera house

[Xelebes]

Make it a sweet opera house

ding ding ding

[walli]

I think a gallery / museum about city planning and architecture would be very interesting. This would be quite unique, and could highlight various international high calibre projects, including the Bow development, but also similar transformational projects in other cities/countries. The beauty about something like that would be its direct connection to the overall project within which it would sit, and also that new material would always be coming down the pipe (such as the toronto waterfront development, the world trade centre project, Dubai projects, various museum projects globally, etcetera). In addition, I think there could be a strategic partnership with the UofC's urban planning area, which would be moving to East Village.

I'd be very interested in seeing that, as well as checking up time to time to see new projects. I just question the appeal it would have to the masses.

That is a good question, and that is also what I'd be worried about if it was specific to calgary sports, or oil and mining as has been suggested. Architecture and planning, in my view, can have a significantly broader appeal, because there is the overlay factor of culture that could be applied.

As an example, there could be areas about South Asian architecture and planning, Oriental architecture and planning, African architecture and planning, etcetera. Something I'd like to see would be an area about Muslim architecture and planning (and note that the largest architectural award in the world is the Aga Khan Award for Architecture - related to Muslim architecture and planning). In this way, you are bringing all types of people together, and it is in direct but complimentary support to the cultural core of Calgary. At the same time, the theme of the gallery / museum would be directly related to the city and EnCana's hopes for the project. Transformation and thoughtful architecture / planning.

A couple of touchstones:

National Building Museum in Washington DC
http://www.nbm.org/

Aga Khan Award for Architecture
http://www.akdn.org/agency/aktc_akaa.html

[Just Build It]

I like the idea of an opera house, except that Opera is something that only a very small amount of the population ever goes to see.

In my mind, it should be an art gallery, and a dedicated one. The NPG would be great, but I'd rather see them host some of the pictures now and then. They can be part of a rotation system, with Edmonton's new art gallery.

A museum of science and technology would be pretty cool as well, with a focus on computers and electronics. I know we have a new science centre on the way, but how far away is it? I don't see anythig happening with it.

[Xelebes]

An opera house can do more than house opera, y'know.

[vid]

You should use it for cultural purposes!!

An Opera House can also hold concerts, festivals, etc. It isn't exclusively operas. University of Alberta would gain one kick-ass graduation party in that thing. :)

[Coldrsx]

You should use it for cultural purposes!!

An Opera House can also hold concerts, festivals, etc. It isn't exclusively operas. University of Alberta would gain one kick-ass graduation party in that thing. :)

University of Alberta hey...

[vid]

What? It's in Edmonton isn't it? :( How about University of Calgary? Is that one existent?

We only learn about Ontario universities here. We have 23, but only one of them counts. :rolleyes:

My point was: We use our auditorium (which has been used for operas before. Surprised?) for the students graduation. So imagine how sweet it would be to graduate in EnCana's cultural centre? :tup:

[Xelebes]

Alberta has like 4 universities? Alberta, Lethbridge, Athabasca and Calgary?

Alberta is in Edmonton, Calgary is in Calgary.

[vid]

Ok. I thought it was like American ones where there is a branch of University of Alberta in each city or something. I'm sorry. :)

[walli]

Ok. I thought it was like American ones where there is a branch of University of Alberta in each city or something. I'm sorry. :)

No worries - University of Calgary used to be a campus of the University of Alberta, and the UofA still has their Augustana campus in Camrose, Alberta. Both the UofC and UofA have multiple campuses.

[Boris2k7]

I am leaning towards Walli's suggestion for a sort of "National Civic Arts" museum (the National part could be also dropped if one such thing already exists). As I noted in the Calgary Construction Thread (in relation to my infrequent visits to the Glenbow Museum):

I'm leaning towards the lack of decent programming. Nothing that the Glenbow put up before the Foster Exhibit was particularly enticing. I would suggest that it is due to a lack of scope on their part rather than a matter of public interest. At the same time as the Foster Exhibit, the also had some stuff about buddhism and hinduism, as well as an ancient weapons collection or something like that. Neither exhibits were really well furnished, nor did their presentations leave much impact. I had a chat with one of the ladies working the 'ticket booth' and she indicated that it was for the Foster Exhibit that the Glenbow was experiencing a small surge of activity.

Thinking about this further, the Glenbow strikes a person as a museum that is primarily for moving exhibitions as well as local history. I think that a "Civic Arts" museum would deserve its own facility, and in the context of a wonder like The Bow and its podium, I can't think of a better location.

[Coldrsx]

Dont worry VID, i wouldnt expect people to know where a top 7 ranked University is in our Country.

[vid]

Lakehead is number 1 in Value Added! :D :tup:

[Distill3d]

i'm with you guys on the new opera house/concert hall.

[Lecom]

The tower looks futuristic as hell, and I don't mean the cheesy 60's futurism - I mean a viable high-profile high-tech design that's likely to push architecture, and progress in general, to new directions. Reminds me of futuristic buildings in new movies that were actually based on viable scientific predictions, such as the stuff in Minority Report and I Robot.

[Bad Grizzly]

I say go with the NPG if you can get it. Any type of art gallery would be good.

The opera house would be good as well, but isn't there already a performing arts centre for concerts and operas? I know various concerts hit Jack Singer Hall...would the opera house be the same thing?

[walli]

The opera house would be good as well, but isn't there already a performing arts centre for concerts and operas? I know various concerts hit Jack Singer Hall...would the opera house be the same thing?

Yeah - we already have three or four in the Epcore centre, with the Jack Singer being a major one. In addition we have the recently renovated Jubilee Auditorium (re-done for the provinces 2005 centenary celebration). I'd be okay with this idea if we didn't have existing spaces, or if the existing spaces were being over-booked. That is not the case.

[Western Spaghetti]

I'm with the art gallery school of thought. Whether it's the NPG or our own art gallery, it doesn't matter, just some kind of art gallery. We already have Jack Singer concert hall, which is one of Canada's best. We have a new library and science centre already in the works. A museum of technology isn't a bad idea, but I still lean toward an art gallery as the best use.

[ScottFromCalgary]

We had a O&G type centre already (which I don't think is around anymore). It was very small and rather boring IMHO.

I think you are referring to the Energeum, which used to be on the main floor of the Energy and Utilities Board's building downtown. I think it was relatively popular for school kids and stuff, it just got axed during the lean years of the 90s to save some provincial dough.

[trueviking]

a giant vault to hold all the money....

[Just Build It]

a giant vault to hold all the money....

No kidding. What was the profit for the last year? 6 Billion? Whatever it was, it was sick.

[Only The Lonely..]

The tower looks futuristic as hell, and I don't mean the cheesy 60's futurism - I mean a viable high-profile high-tech design that's likely to push architecture, and progress in general, to new directions. Reminds me of futuristic buildings in new movies that were actually based on viable scientific predictions, such as the stuff in Minority Report and I Robot.

Somehow I doubt you'll think this in the future. ;)

[Only The Lonely..]

Will this new gallery have anything brainy or conceptual in it, like dead squirrels nailed to trees?

Fuck, I hate having to think.

[vid]

Dead squirrels nailed to trees would really say a lot about the current geo-political climate. But frankly, that would deserve it's own thread!! It is a very deep and controversial issue.

[jeffwhit]

Ok,

I don't know who's actually seen the plans, but a lot of these suggestions are impossible.

Opera House- those have to be designed from scratch, you can adapt a space, especially this one. There are 100000 sq. feet spread over three floors, with the atrium cutting through the centre. You might be able to get a 200 seat recital hall in there, but even then the building likely isn't designed to fit a space that would require more than one floor, like a concert venue.

Public Art Gallery- Of course this would be great, but I think we need far more than 100k sqft for this, and if Encana becomes the Calgary Art Gallery, we'll never get the kind of facility we actually need.

Library - This space is no bigger than the current library, so no.

National Portrait Gallery - My choice. I know I'm selfish, I know Harper wanting to move it here is pure political maneuvering, I know there's a facility half-built in Ottawa, I don't care. I want this here, purely selfish and homeristic. I believe this option would provide the highest quality experience to visitors of all these choices.

FYI: Calgary's opera facility is the shitty, shitty Jube, Jack Singer is a concert hall. We need a 500 person facility far more than anything right now.

[jeffwhit]

Yeah - we already have three or four in the Epcore centre, with the Jack Singer being a major one. In addition we have the recently renovated Jubilee Auditorium (re-done for the provinces 2005 centenary celebration). I'd be okay with this idea if we didn't have existing spaces, or if the existing spaces were being over-booked. That is not the case.

Point of info, Jack Singer is the only concert facility in Epcor, the rest are all theatres for plays, and that is all that happens in them.

Calgary needs a new concert hall of some kind though, or Jack Singer's stage system needs to be automated now, as opposed to in 2010, when there is a minor reno happening.

[walli]

Point of info, Jack Singer is the only concert facility in Epcor, the rest are all theatres for plays, and that is all that happens in them.

Calgary needs a new concert hall of some kind though, or Jack Singer's stage system needs to be automated now, as opposed to in 2010, when there is a minor reno happening.

Even then - take a look at Jack Singer bookings ... there are far too many openings to consider building another one virtually next door. In addition, the opportunity cost for building a semi-duplicate would be huge.

[jeffwhit]

^^ You aren't accounting for the fact that 5 days of almost every week the Calgary Philharmonic is rehearsing in there, we are the primary tenant. Those bookings don't show up on the calendar of events. Jack Singer is in use every single day. Trust, me the hall is at capacity and it is impossible to have the stage reconfigured properly for every event. Of course, it's the CPO that gets screwed by this but that's a different topic for a different day.

[Rusty van Reddick]

The culture of the oilpatch is deeply conservative, and this building will represent the image that EnCana projects to its colleagues and the world. As a result, I find it highly unlikely that EnCana will be able to find any room in this cultural space for any truly original or creative art. Sadly, there's no shortage of existing venues in Calgary to go see derivative, unchallenging, meaningless and boring art.

Where can we see "derivative, unchallenging, meaningless, and boring art"? We don't have a proper public gallery- we do have many very interesting, provocative, edgy private galleries, a new anarchists' bookstore and gallery, the High Performance Rodeo, a queer film festival... it's so fucking trite to be one of these "I hated Calgary and left it for ______" (usually Vancouver, Montreal, or Toronto, natch), citing a lack of "arts," but that characterization is simply false and lazy. You can get away with these sorts of comments on disovervancouver.com or lonelyplanet.com. You can't get away with this sort of thing here.

[Grendel]

^ The other day, I had some business I had to attend to at the Royal Bank Building downtown. I entered through the south lobby of Bankers Hall, the one that faces onto 9th ave. You skyscraper types will recall that for the 10 years while we waited for the west tower to be built, there was a model of the complex living in there. My point is this; go down in there one of these days and take a look at the sort of art that corporations buy. That lobby is full of dull landscapes, paintings of grain elevators, etc. For corporations, the purpose of art is not the pursuit of art itself, but to either complement the aesthetic of an existing building, or to make a statement about the corporate image. If the cultural space in the Bow becomes and art gallery, and EnCana can a) hire a creative, thoughtful curator and b) refrain from interfering with that person, then bravo, let's have an art gallery. On the other hand, I think that the National Portait Gallery would be a more suitable tenant because it will be inherently uncontoversial and will add to the prestige of the city, both of which I think are laudable goals.

[walli]

Jack Singer is in use every single day. Trust, me the hall is at capacity ...

Does the 3k seat Jubilee Auditorium not count?

http://www.jubileeauditorium.com/southern/images/view_from_stage.jpg

The opportunity cost of putting in yet another 'hall' is too great, particularly if the current capacity issue with Jack Singer is simply *practice time*.

This new EnCana space should be something for the broadest cross-section of the city, and I'd like it to be something unique and different - not a repeat or a copy, or simply a bandwidth expander. I'd really like to see a 'transformational planning & architecture' gallery / museum, represented in a way that celebrates different cultures.

[Zilla]

Interesting poll. I would be most happy with either the NPG (my first vote, if just for the pizzazz) or a civic art gallery, which we very much need.

[jeffwhit]

This new EnCana space should be something for the broadest cross-section of the city, and I'd like it to be something unique and different - not a repeat or a copy, or simply a bandwidth expander. I'd really like to see a 'transformational planning & architecture' gallery / museum, represented in a way that celebrates different cultures.

Why are you arguing with me on something we agree on? As for your assy comment about 'practice time...' you should maybe try not to sound so ignorant. When you have a $40000 instrument run into by a half retarded roadie for the fucking Goo Goo Dolls then you may understand where I'm coming from.

Calgary lacks a venue in the 500-1000 people range, particularly for rock shows, and I said Encana's space cannot accommodate such a facility and I didn't advocate that it should. The Jube has almost 3000 seats, I'm talking about something less than a 3rd that size, closer to the Chan centre at UBC or The Toronto Centre for the Performing Arts in North York. Try not to forget that the CPO is the sole reason the Jack Singer exists in the first place. Jack Singer's upper balconies are closed off for a huge number of it's events, like stand-up comedy.

[jeffwhit]

Interesting poll. I would be most happy with either the NPG (my first vote, if just for the pizzazz) or a civic art gallery, which we very much need.

I'll repeat my personal argument that I think we need a civic art gallery that is larger than the space Encana is providing, and if that is where it ends up we'll never get the facility we need and deserve. All things considered though, I would prefer that to anything else should the NPG deal fall through.

[walli]

Calgary lacks a venue in the 500-1000 people range

Glad that we agree on not using the EnCana space for a theatre. With respect to the issue you've mentioned, a couple additional locations come to mind.

The university theatre is excellent, and at 505 seats, fits the size requirements you're looking for. In addition, the Boyce theatre at Stampede Park just got re-done, and looks fabulous (big change from the previously looking like something appropriate for a highschool). It has 500 seats.

University Theatre:
http://www.finearts.ucalgary.ca/theatres/theatres/images/ut-seating.jpg

Boyce Theatre:
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:yyWiwNq5aY3Z8M:http://www.butenko.org/cpc/03worlds/boyce.jpg

There are several others between 300 and 500, including at SAIT and other UofC facilities such as the Reeve Theatre and others.

[Surrealplaces]

I'm re-thinking my wish for it as dedicated art museum. If the space is going to be only 100k sq/ft, then that wouldn't give us the freedom to do what we want with a new art gallery. Calgary's waited long enough, we need to go for something big and bold.

Is there any chance the space could be increased if some more public money was added??

[newflyer]

Make it into the largest country music muesum. It would reflect the city very well.... tie into it western theme. Could even include a pickup truck exhibit. :rolleyes:

[trueviking]

im telling you, a room filled with oil money that calgarians could bring their entire families to on weekends to relax, swim laps and frolic in, like a public pool filled with gold...

http://www.dreamprogram.org/images/photo_ScroogeMoney.jpg

http://1-2-3nodebt.com/images/scrooge.gif

http://graysmatter.codivation.com/content/binary/scroogemcduck_money.JPG

[vid]

His name in Swedish is Joakim? :P

[Arriviste]

Public Gallery. I want our gallery in that space more than anything in the world. The portrait gallery would suffice.
As for a bum shelter, I think it owuld be cheaper/easier to put them back on the bus to Edmonton. They'd feel more at home.


(I'm actually a big advocate of homeless issues, but Feepa talks so much shit)

[trueviking]

His name in Swedish is Joakim? :P


that's danish...swedish has these: ö, not these: ø.:)

[Wooster]

im telling you, a room filled with oil money that calgarians could bring their entire families to on weekends to relax, swim laps and frolic in, like a public pool filled with gold...

http://www.dreamprogram.org/images/photo_ScroogeMoney.jpg

http://1-2-3nodebt.com/images/scrooge.gif

http://graysmatter.codivation.com/content/binary/scroogemcduck_money.JPG

Ha ha. This is what I thought of when I was in the bank of canada vault at the Diefenbunker.

[vid]

that's danish...swedish has these: ö, not these: ø.:)

I have failed our Scandinavian heritage. :(

[dubiousmike]

Digital Media Library/Museum of Technology.


edit: Or the National Portrait Gallery. That would be fantastic as well.

[YYCguys]

I voted "Other" because I think the Glenbow Museum should move there. But I also think an art gallery would be appropriate. Would there be space for both?

[jeffwhit]

^^ I'm not sure what the sq footage is on the Glenbow currently, but 100000 sq ft seems to small for me. I definitely don't think there is room for more than one major attraction.

[skrish]

^^ I'm not sure what the sq footage is on the Glenbow currently, but 100000 sq ft seems to small for me. I definitely don't think there is room for more than one major attraction.

On wikipedia it says that the Glenbow is 93,000 square feet.

[jeffwhit]

Would it even make sense for the Glenbow to relocate for just 2 McMansions worth of space? Besides, I'd rather have 2 museums than 1 anyway. In my ideal world NPG in Encana, new Glenbow, and huge new Calgary Art Gallery.

[tkoe]

I know this is going to get me into trouble (and granted I don’t know very much about this project), but why on Earth is a cultural facility being built before a definite tenant is lined up for the space? This isn’t like building a shopping mall and then finding tenants. Facilities like a civic art museum need to be founded on a core group of supporters that respond to the needs and desires of the community by building something that is organic – not just spending gobs of money to buy some purdy pictures to hang on the wall. It seems only in money-drenched Calgary that people think culture can be bought from the top down.

[jeffwhit]

Firstly, your last statement was ignorant by your own admission and not even based on a single actual event.

Secondly, Encana is not buying pretty pictures and hanging them on the wall, they are not acting as the institution, they are simply providing space. The Art Gallery of Calgary for example, is nothing more than a collection of art and people, they are the institution, not the building they reside in. This has nothing to do with buying culture, it has everything to do with enabling it to thrive.

Is Montreal "buying" a world class orchestra by building a proper facility for the OSM? No, they are simply providing the OSM with the facility necessary to show how great an ensemble they are.

One thing that I find a little frustrating is how people don't understand how any art needs proper facilities to function properly and thrive, just as much as a hockey team needs a proper rink to practice on. You wouldn't except the Flames practice on the Bowness Park Lagoon, why would you deny arts and culture proper facilities?

[tkoe]

Firstly, your last statement was ignorant by your own admission and not even based on a single actual event.

Secondly, Encana is not buying pretty pictures and hanging them on the wall, they are not acting as the institution, they are simply providing space. The Art Gallery of Calgary for example, is nothing more than a collection of art and people, they are the institution, not the building they reside in. This has nothing to do with buying culture, it has everything to do with enabling it to thrive.

Is Montreal "buying" a world class orchestra by building a proper facility for the OSM? No, they are simply providing the OSM with the facility necessary to show how great an ensemble they are.

One thing that I find a little frustrating is how people don't understand how any art needs proper facilities to function properly and thrive, just as much as a hockey team needs a proper rink to practice on. You wouldn't except the Flames practice on the Bowness Park Lagoon, why would you deny arts and culture proper facilities?

I don't disagree with you - cultural institutions need to have excellent facilities to interact with the public and create spaces for social dialogue. And most definitely it is the people that make a truly great art gallery, not the fancy building. What I find irritating though, is when people want to skip all those years of organic, community-driven growth and simply buy cultural institutions that don't have any relation to the city they are in other that signalling that 'we've made it'.

The Calgary Art Gallery is about 30 years old and has about 6,000 s.f. of exhibition space, and some on this thread are complaining that 100,000 s.f. will be too small. I'm not suggesting that the Gallery should never grow, but pouring money into the project simply because an oil company has decided to make some cultural space available is a terrible reasoning. Does the Gallery even have enough work to display in a space that large?

What I am suggesting is that a space like EnCana should be purpose-built because there is a cultural group whose needs require a better, more attuned space to do what they have already been doing. Calgary has so many amazing features and strengths, but seems hell-bent on proving itself with cultural institutions that aren't 'of Calgary'. If people are so desperate for the title of wold-class gallery, why don't you just buy the MoMA and drop it in Calgary and be done with it?

[jeffwhit]

Interesting that you should pick MoMa, which as an institution was a mere 10 years old when David Rockefeller commissioned it's current building. Previously MoMa was 6 small rooms in an office tower.

What I find irritating though, is when people want to skip all those years of organic, community-driven growth and simply buy cultural institutions that don't have any relation to the city they are in other that signalling that 'we've made it'.

You seem to be ignoring, or denying that many the worlds great institutions exist only because of large philanthropic gifts from corporations, or wealthy individuals. Why does Carnegie-Mellon University exist? Isn't a prestigious higher education 'not-of' a town of working-class steal workers? What about the Cleveland orchestra, one of the worlds greatest, in Cleveland a town founded on heavy manufacturing? It's not a group of plucky violinists toiled for years slowly building into what is today, it's because Bell gave a shitload of money to create a fully professional orchestra and paid a lot to bring one of the world's best conductors to Cleveland.

Should the Art Gallery of Calgary (which just a hypothetical situation) take over the space their own current collection would become only a small part of what is displayed. Like many public museums (Denver very notably) a large amount of the displayed art will be donated, or loaned private collections (Denver is a good example because much of what is displayed in the new Libeskind building was donated/loaned after the new space was secured.) A substantial amount of the space would be reserved for traveling exhibitions. I have trouble believing a museum in a Foster-designed facility would have much trouble luring collections to a new home.

I am irritated that Encana is being ridiculed for it's contribution, rather than lauded, especially when in Canadian corporations get little or no tax incentive for these type of gifts, and thus Canadian corporations are extremely stingy with philanthropic activities, unlike the US where this would be entirely tax deducible and thus a culture of corporate philanthropy is alive and well.

Also, since you're wondering, it's very clear in Foster & Partners building plans that the top three floors of the building were designed to be gallery space in the renderings.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/147/397280327_e6d784c488_o.jpg

[tkoe]

You seem to be ignoring, or denying that many the worlds great institutions exist only because of large philanthropic gifts from corporations, or wealthy individuals. Why does Carnegie-Mellon University exist? Isn't a prestigious higher education 'not-of' a town of working-class steal workers? What about the Cleveland orchestra, one of the worlds greatest, in Cleveland a town founded on heavy manufacturing? It's not a group of plucky violinists toiled for years slowly building into what is today, it's because Bell gave a shitload of money to create a fully professional orchestra and paid a lot to bring one of the world's best conductors to Cleveland.

Should the Art Gallery of Calgary (which just a hypothetical situation) take over the space their own current collection would become only a small part of what is displayed. Like many public museums (Denver very notably) a large amount of the displayed art will be donated, or loaned private collections (Denver is a good example because much of what is displayed in the new Libeskind building was donated/loaned after the new space was secured.) A substantial amount of the space would be reserved for traveling exhibitions. I have trouble believing a museum in a Foster-designed facility would have much trouble luring collections to a new home.

I am irritated that Encana is being ridiculed for it's contribution, rather than lauded, especially when in Canadian corporations get little or no tax incentive for these type of gifts, and thus Canadian corporations are extremely stingy with philanthropic activities, unlike the US where this would be entirely tax deducible and thus a culture of corporate philanthropy is alive and well.

Thanks for you thoughtful response - you've made many good points. I agree that gifts from companies and wealthy philanthropists are very important for many cultural groups. I did not mean to suggest that being a patron of the arts is a bad thing, whether one gives $10 or $10 million (particularly in Alberta where government funding is few and far between). I think though, that in the case of the EnCana space it seems that the cart is being put before the horse, metaphorically speaking.

You seem to know quite a bit about the MoMA -- so please correct me if I'm wrong -- but from what I understand the land that the Gallery sits on today was donated by John Rockefeller specifically for the purpose of building a space to exhibit modern art (for a group that already had a history of putting on very successful shows). The Museum was not built as a neutral 'cultural space' - it was purpose-built by a committed group art enthusiasts with the help of a wealthy patron.

Undoubtedly, having a cultural institution in the Bow will only augment the prestige of having the largest tower in Western Canada designed by a world-renowned architect. And EnCana didn't have to incorporate any space for the arts at all, you are correct. It seems to me, however, that if EnCana truly wanted to leave a lasting and genuine impact on the community in which they are headquartered, they would have taken even just a moment to think about what the space might be used for. Just the fact the people are discussing whether it should for a music or fine arts seems to indicate just how far this portion of the project was thought through. I wish that in this case the 'culture' wasn't simply the designer handbag to go along with the new expensive dress.

[jeffwhit]

You seem to know quite a bit about the MoMA -- so please correct me if I'm wrong -- but from what I understand the land that the Gallery sits on today was donated by John Rockefeller specifically for the purpose of building a space to exhibit modern art (for a group that already had a history of putting on very successful shows). The Museum was not built as a neutral 'cultural space' - it was purpose-built by a committed group art enthusiasts with the help of a wealthy patron.
The Rockefellers were involved with MoMa from the start, it was mainly the collection of John D Rockefeller's wife. 10 years after MoMa was founded John D had the current building commissioned.


Undoubtedly, having a cultural institution in the Bow will only augment the prestige of having the largest tower in Western Canada designed by a world-renowned architect. And EnCana didn't have to incorporate any space for the arts at all, you are correct. It seems to me, however, that if EnCana truly wanted to leave a lasting and genuine impact on the community in which they are headquartered, they would have taken even just a moment to think about what the space might be used for. Just the fact the people are discussing whether it should for a music or fine arts seems to indicate just how far this portion of the project was thought through. I wish that in this case the 'culture' wasn't simply the designer handbag to go along with the new expensive dress.
No it doesn't - Encana made calls for for proposals to the arts and cultural communities before they had even announced Foster as the architect. Thruthfully, this speculation is interesting, but for the most part isn't even being guided by the facts at hand. Don't you think that fact says a lot more about how well thought out this idea was more than random people totally disconnected from the project, or in some cases the city, say on an internet forum?

The truth is no one really knows what's happening behind the scenes with this space, little bits of info get out and people speculate, and that's all that's going on here, it's certainly no more valid than any other discussion board. The opera house suggestion i assume you're alluding to came from someone not even from Calgary.

[DizzyEdge]

Make it a sweet opera house

The lot north of the York hotel *was* an opera house till the 60's when they tore it down.

[mersar]

Correct. The Hull Opera House (1893-1963)

http://www.calgaryheritage.org/images/Gone/na-468-4.jpg

[DizzyEdge]

Correct. The Hull Opera House (1893-1963)

http://www.calgaryheritage.org/images/Gone/na-468-4.jpg

That's one of my top 5 regretful teardowns

[Surrealplaces]

Correct. The Hull Opera House (1893-1963)

http://www.calgaryheritage.org/images/Gone/na-468-4.jpg

Boy that is a shame. On the other hand Encana's arts space will go there, so it sort of makes up for it.

[walli]

Part of this article somewhat explains why the Glenbow backed out of the Bow.

-----
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070327.wxmuseums27/BNStory/Entertainment/home

excerpts:
---
Even as federal politicians are scheming and dreaming of ways to fund national museums in Winnipeg and Calgary, and bring national heritage treasures to the regions, the federal bureaucracy is quietly killing a program that supports the transportation of such treasures.

Exhibition Transport Services (15-metre-long, climate-controlled trucks, and drivers trained to handle art) is to be phased out by April, 2008. Alarmed gallery and museum directors calculate that switching to private-sector carriers will up their costs by as much as 30 per cent.

---
While the death of the service hobbles arts and museum curators across Canada, it actively trips up the Stephen Harper government's hopes of decentralizing national museums and moving the Portrait Gallery of Canada to Calgary's soon-to-be-built EnCana office tower. The feds planned to truck the paintings and photos chosen from the gallery's vast collection, stored in Gatineau, Que., to Alberta when needed, and then truck them back for safe storage.

By increasing transport costs, the ETS cancellation bolsters the arguments of those who would keep the Portrait Gallery in Ottawa. So do rocketing construction costs in boomtown Calgary.

When it was announced that EnCana might contribute $30-million toward the Portrait Gallery's $44-million cost, it initially looked like the energy company was offering to assume three-quarters of the gallery's cost, a model of the Tories' dream of public-private partnerships for the cultural sector.

"But it seems that the 'contribution' was more in the form of space in the mall ground floor of EnCana's new Bow Tower," says Liberal Senator Serge Joyal. He says the deal would in fact have required the Portrait Gallery to pay for interior construction, installation of lights, walls and museum-standard conservation conditions. Indeed, the gallery space EnCana was offering was so expensive it was rejected when originally offered to Calgary's own Glenbow Museum.

Complicating matters, the office tower has changed hands: In February, EnCana sold the property to the Toronto-based H&R Real Estate Investment Trust and will lease office space from them. New management at EnCana and new ownership realities may squash the offer of space in the Bow building.

Even if they do not, "Would the Portrait Gallery have to pay rent or other costs that would reflect the conditions of the Calgary market?" demands Joyal. "That too would increase the operation costs of the gallery." He adds, "Strange: For a government committed to accountability and transparency, this is the most secretive file -- yet it has nothing to do with security or defence. It's heritage!"

[Sean.Perrin]

Correct. The Hull Opera House (1893-1963)

http://www.calgaryheritage.org/images/Gone/na-468-4.jpg

What the fuck is wrong with out city... this is a real shame.

[murman]

Part of this article somewhat explains why the Glenbow backed out of the Bow.

-----
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070327.wxmuseums27/BNStory/Entertainment/home



I've also been told that part of the reason why the Glenbow didn't get what it wanted is because its sense of entitlement "upset" EnCana.

[Zilla]

I think the cultural space should be offices for the Calgary Heritage Initiative and the Calgary Urban Initiative :)

[Wooster]

I think the cultural space should be offices for the Calgary Heritage Initiative and the Calgary Urban Initiative :)

Good Plan. We call top floor. :yes:

Seriously, it would be great if some developer as part of some density bonus contribution created free, or super cheap office space for non-profits.

[Zilla]

^ That's okay - we'll take space in the York.

[Boris2k7]

Wait, does this mean I get a desk? :O

-CUI Office of Misinformation

[Wooster]

Boris - CUI Information Minister:

"There is no sprawl in Calgary"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joshwhit/development/borisminister.jpg