[IHEARTPDX]

I like this idea and I hope it happens...with the demise of locating the market in the firehouse in Old Town, I think a Public Market @ Union Station is a great alternative and would really be a nice economic/tourist shot in the arm for that area...(forgive me if this has been posted or included in a previous post already).

From The NW Examiner:

http://www.portlandpublicmarket.com/pdxMkt-Story070115.html



Trading Spaces

Northwest resident Ron Paul looks at Untion Station as site for a new public market after the city nixes his group's designs on former fire station

By Allan Classen

Ron Paul has been on a seven-year mission to establish a public market in Portland. The former restaurateur and longtime Northwest District resident believes buying fresh food from local producers has enormous benefit for our health, our cities and the environment.

His saga took a hit last July when the city cancelled a project to move the central fire station to Old Town and free its current location for a public market. But Paul is not easily discouraged.

"Our position became: trade up," said Paul, the consulting director of the Historic Portland Public Market Foundation.

In "trading up," the organization has its sights on an even better location, a historic landmark with great visibility at the hub of transportation crossroads. They want to go into Union Station.

"Based on the number of other rail stations around the country exploring higher levels of commerce and food, what I'm wanting to explore is: Can a station accommodate rail traffic and a vibrant public market?"

The train station has actually been at the top of the organization's list of possible sites since Paul's group was formed. Notable rail stations in other cities have gone this route. Grand Central Station in New York City houses the Grand Central Market, and Union Station in Washington, D.C., has lots of small shops and restaurants, he said. Amtrak has a national campaign to upgrade and enliven stations it owns or uses.

Paul's initial idea was to wait for Amtrak's expected move to Portland's eastside, leaving Union Station largely vacant. But when the Bush Administration sliced funds for Amtrak, that possibility died.

Now he thinks a public market could co-exist with train service. But getting the train station ready for a new use would require major investment. It's in serious disrepair and needs perhaps $30 million in seismic upgrades and repairs. When it rains, "it leaks like a sieve," Paul admitted.

Diana Holuka, who manages the property for the city's Office of Management and Finance, confirmed that virtually every part of the structure-from the roof to the wiring to the foundation-needs work, and outside funding is needed. Leases with Amtrak and other tenants (such as Wilf's restaurant) cannot cover the needed work.

Because the national historic landmark is owned by the city, Paul believes city leaders will eventually find the resources to save and restore it.

"The city needs to take care of this asset regardless," he said. "There has been no compelling reason to fix it in the past, but the market becomes a catalyst to change that."

And to justify the investment, new uses and revenue streams would be necessary.

Paul estimates that preparing the station to include a market would cost an additional $5-$6 million, an amount that could be generated by grants and donations. His job now is to persuade the community and its leaders that a public market has that magnitude of potential.

"It would be an economic development engine par excellence," he said. "It brings people from far and wide."

After mulling these factors, "The balance in my mind began to tip," he said. "We don't need to wait for Amtrak to move out or wait for federal support to come in. We could do it locally."

At this point, the Public Market Foundation is seeking about $25,000 from City Hall for a study to see if the project could be feasible.

"We are at the very early stages of just exploring the possibilities," Paul said. "We know there are mountains of issues."

For one, if Amtrak is flatly opposed, it could end right there. That being so, Paul has approached the rail company gingerly."

Amtrak's initial reaction was more positive than we feared," he told the Pearl District Neighborhood Association last month.

Amtrak's lease runs through 2010, with an option to extend to 2015, said Holuka. The train company currently leases the concourse off the main lobby where Paul would like to put the public market. He also thinks its baggage area is largely unused and might provide an option.

Obsessed with food

Paul believes the city would support a major public market because, as the New York Times reported recently, "Portland is obsessed with food." The quote came from prominent New York City restaurant operator Danny Meyer, who was asked about a growing national awareness of where our food supply comes from, how it's produced and food quality. Portland was at the top of his list of American cities where people are going the extra mile for high-quality, locally produced food.

Paul has been at the heart of that movement since he opened his first restaurant at Northwest 23rd and Quimby in 1983. (He later moved to Northwest 23rd and Everett and opened other eateries under his name in Northeast and Southwest Portland.) In the 1990s, he was part of a loose federation that included chefs, restaurateurs, architects, food writers and urban planners who formed the local nexus of the "slow food" movement.

Paul, who has spoken to groups about the problems of the modern industrialized food system and the growth of more natural alternatives, said, "Food consciousness is rising all the time." He believes that translates into rising demand for a public market that would offer local produce, meat and other food items.

"That ethos has begun to change with the success of Portland Farmers' Market. New Seasons and others have put a premium on local foods and organic food," he said.

Restaurants are increasingly getting all their greens from a particular grower, for instance, or all their beef from one rancher and promoting these sources by name, he noted.

"Increasingly, you're seeing that on restaurant menus," he said. "It all reinforces the consideration of local food. The pendulum is shifting now."

Joan Pendergast, president of the Pearl District Neighborhood Association, is ready to get on board.

"Everyone is eager to see the market- at least I am," she announced after Paul's recent presentation to her association.

Getting the money may be a harder sell.

Lew Bowers, a development manager for the Portland Development Commission, said the station is in the Downtown/Waterfront Urban Renewal Area and is thus eligible for low-interest loans and grants, but that program is being phased out and has no more uncommitted money.

"His concept and timing are right," said Bowers. "At some point, we're going to have to deal with Union Station."

In the short-term, however, "There are no funds available through the Urban Renewal Area," he said. "It may be a good idea, but we have no time or staff to actively pursue it. ... Our plates are full."

[MarkDaMan]

someone wake me up when they actually pick out a place. Since I've moved back to Portland 5 years ago this has 'been in the works' and yet they still don't even have a potential locations...jeebus...

[IHEARTPDX]

I think what might be missing is a private developer (Like the new Gerding theater) aspect to this project-- Where the developer deals with the location, development of the building/structure etc. and PDC/Portland Public Market deals with the market aspect (sans the structural stuff).

[brandonpdx]

I can't believe we don't have one yet! It would be nice to have it near the water somewhere. Perhaps by the Hawthorne bridge and they could incorporate the mid century modern building that's vacant. the patch of grass directly south of that isn't really ever used for much and they could incorporate the parking lot and space under the bridge.

[65MAX]

There's not enough room at Union Station for a full-blown Public Market. And truck access is problematic.

Put it at Centennial Mills. Plenty of room for LARGE public market plus restaurants, shops, et al; right on the river; easy access from Naito for deliveries; a great termination for the 10th Ave Boardwalk.....

Doesn't anyone else see that this is a no-brainer?

[Stepping Razor]

There's not enough room at Union Station for a full-blown Public Market. And truck access is problematic.

Put it at Centennial Mills. Plenty of room for LARGE public market plus restaurants, shops, et al; right on the river; easy access from Naito for deliveries; a great termination for the 10th Ave Boardwalk.....

Doesn't anyone else see that this is a no-brainer?

Only big drawback is no easy transit access, and it's way out on the edge of the part of the city that most people go to. Would its seeming remoteness make it unviable?

[bvpcvm]

no way dude, out at centennial mills it will wither and die, just like the other one did in the 40's. it's got to be very close to 10th and morrison, where max and the streetcar cross. srsly, who's going to patronize this thing? close-in transit users. very few people are going to drive in from beaverton, past all kinds of supermarkets and even farmers' markets to shop at a market in the pearl. so for it to be successful it's got to draw on the central city market and to that it has to be in the center of the central city area and very very easily accessible by transit. if it's downtown, there's a chance office workers might stop by on their way home after work - if it's out at centennial mills there's no way they will. and as to residents, in the center you're more or less equidistant from all the central city neighborhoods. centennial millz and the train station would a huge mistake.

[zilfondel]

Besides, the train station is currently in use.. for trains. Trying to convert the train station into anything else would be a complete travesty - just look at the spaces inside if you don't believe me.

30-40' ceiling, marble clad walls, very solemn and monolithic space. A public market needs to be eclectic and fun - these market supports should take a trip up to Pike's Place in Seattle or Granville Island in Vancouver.


and bvpcvm, you're completely correct. Remember the 3 most important aspects of architecture: location, location, location.

[65MAX]

Have you seen the density proposed for the north end of the Pearl? 5 years ago Jamison Square and Tanner Springs Park were remote. I wouldn't consider them remote anymore. The only potential drawback I see is that there is no direct streetcar or LR service there, although the Boardwalk helps to connect it to the streetcar. It's only a few short blocks away, and it'll be a shop-lined, amenity-rich walk.

Out of curiosity, what kind of rail service does the Pike Street Market have? How close is it to where most Seattlites live? Is it even on the way home for most Seattlites? It seems like Pike Street Market is more of a destination than a neighborhood market. What about Granville Island? Same questions. Nobody walks to GI. I don't even think they have bus service there, the streets are too narrow. GI does have a water taxi, something that would be very likely at Centennial Mills as well.

[65MAX]

The problem with putting it around 10th and Morrison is you're limited to a 200' x 200' block. Fine for a neighborhood market, but not big enough for a destination market.

[Drmyeyes]

Centennial Mills as public market site. No easy transit access? Don't you think that a loop off the present streetcar route will be an inevitability? Solves that problem.

[65MAX]

Centennial Mills as public market site. No easy transit access? Don't you think that a loop off the present streetcar route will be an inevitability? Solves that problem.

That would be really easy to do. How about a circulator that runs just on 10th and 11th, from NW Overton to SW Mill (at PSU)? That would increase the frequencies on the busiest part of the current line.

[bvpcvm]

how big of a market is portland hoping to support? taking a quick look at google earth, pike place market is about 800' long, but it's also very narrow. something half the size (for example) could, i imagine, be squeezed in to a regular-sized block downtown. and i really don't think the density planned for the north end of the pearl makes any difference - centennial mills is still on the way to almost nowhere, it's very inconvenient for people on their way home from work, and even with the streetcar going over the broadway bridge it's still about 6 blocks from the nearest possible station. i don't know grandville island at all, but the pike place market is smack in the middle of residential and a mere four blocks from westlake center, which, as far as i can tell, is the nearest equivalent to pioneer square in seattle - so i don't think it's a relevant comparison.

[PDX City-State]

Think about how much private development opportunity there is around Union Station--Old Town needs a landmark and the new Max can bring in the people. It's right off Glisan and Broadway, and within walking distance from the Pearl. I think this would be a huge win for Portland.

[65MAX]

how big of a market is portland hoping to support? taking a quick look at google earth, pike place market is about 800' long, but it's also very narrow. something half the size (for example) could, i imagine, be squeezed in to a regular-sized block downtown. and i really don't think the density planned for the north end of the pearl makes any difference - centennial mills is still on the way to almost nowhere, it's very inconvenient for people on their way home from work, and even with the streetcar going over the broadway bridge it's still about 6 blocks from the nearest possible station. i don't know grandville island at all, but the pike place market is smack in the middle of residential and a mere four blocks from westlake center, which, as far as i can tell, is the nearest equivalent to pioneer square in seattle - so i don't think it's a relevant comparison.

Westlake Center to Pike St Market is 2000 feet, about 8 Portland blocks. Not that that's really relevant, b/c Pike Street Market was successful long before Westlake Center was there. Also, Seattle was smaller then than Portland is now, so why would we want something half the size of PSM? I'd also argue that PSM is not really "on the way" to anything. It's very much a destination.

[westsider]

I say put it at the mill, and if it's worth coming to then people can just take a 3 min walk from the end of the street car.

[65MAX]

Think about how much private development opportunity there is around Union Station--Old Town needs a landmark and the new Max can bring in the people. It's right off Glisan and Broadway, and within walking distance from the Pearl. I think this would be a huge win for Portland.

The 3 vacant blocks between 6th and Broadway and Glisan and Johnson would also be a great location for a public market. Ground floor and mezzanine market, 3rd floor restaurants, apts and/or offices above, basement loading docks/deliveries, then public parking below that. This obviously would have to be a MAJOR public/private venture.

Save Union Station for trains and associated retail.

[MarkDaMan]

What about the Post Office site? If the majority of buildings were demo'ed, but the main building gutted, expanded, and made to look a little more pleasing, the market would work great there. There would still be enough room on the site for a park and condo towers, the Streetcar currently is only blocks away and will be expanded across the Broadway, providing two streetcar stops. The new MAX line and bus mall would also be only two blocks away.

[pdxstreetcar]

65 MAX, I agree about using those vacant blocks for the market.

[Nutterbug]

Out of curiosity, what kind of rail service does the Pike Street Market have? How close is it to where most Seattlites live? Is it even on the way home for most Seattlites? It seems like Pike Street Market is more of a destination than a neighborhood market. What about Granville Island? Same questions. Nobody walks to GI. I don't even think they have bus service there, the streets are too narrow. GI does have a water taxi, something that would be very likely at Centennial Mills as well.

No rail service to either, unless you count the part-time tourist oriented streetcar between Science World and GI on weekends. Pike Place is right along the heavily travelled 1st Avenue transit corridor, and the #50 bus takes you right to GI's doorstep. A couple of more blocks walk will take you to the transit exchange at 4th Avenue and Granville St.

But yeah, both PP and GI seem to be more destinations in and of themselves largely catering to tourists as well as locals, and serve a much greater area than the immediate neighbourhood. The Vancouver area does also have smaller pocket markets at Lonsdale Quay (at the northern Seabus terminus), Westminster Quay (in New Westminster) and in Richmond.

[IHEARTPDX]

It would fit nicely into the Burnside Bridgehead development as well...with "produce row" adjacent to the project and the proposed streetcar lines for the Central eastside. It would serve a wider section of Portland's community as well as bring more tourism (possibly) to that area.

[bvpcvm]

look, i don't mean to be negative, but portland isn't quite the tourist destination that seattle and vancouver are, which leaves residents as the primary customers.

residents of downtown are one thing; they can travel to a market more easily, even if it's at centennial mills. but 80,000 downtown are workers leave at 5pm in a hurry to get home, tired after a day of corporate raiding or whatever, and a side trip, even to union station when the max is running is going to add another hour. srsly. given 5 minutes waiting, 10 minutes travelling, 20 minutes shopping, then the same thing going back to pioneer square to catch the max back to willow creek, oh, and btw, with bags of groceries.

that's a huge barrier to put between you (market owner) and sales. i know finding a place in the very center would be a challenge, but if it's going to work, i think it's the only way. so, if i were to name my top locations, in order, it would be: 1. 10th and yamhill, or thereabouts; 2. (just thought of this) somewhere very close to the 18th and morrison max stop; 3. blocks in front of union station; 4. union station itself and a very distant (figuratively and literally) 5. centennial mills, but only very very grudgingly.

[urbanlife]

I have always wondered why there hasn't been a push to put it in the New Market Theater building at Ankeny Square. That use to be a public market building anyway. Plus they could tear down that ugly glass addition and do something much nicer and possibly taller that works into the rest of the architecture on that block.

Max stop right there, the walk from the Pearl and other locations in downtown would be very easy. UofO is going to be in that area. Then the need for parking could be addressed by building a garage on the parking lot on 2nd and Ash with condo, office space, and apartments above that.

I still think that location would be the best fit for that, but hell, give the democrats a couple years to take back the White House totally and the money needed to move the Amtrak station could easily happen, then that would be a good possibility too.

[PacificNW]

I agree, urbanlife. I have felt the same thing for a long time.

[65MAX]

I have always wondered why there hasn't been a push to put it in the New Market Theater building at Ankeny Square. That use to be a public market building anyway. Plus they could tear down that ugly glass addition and do something much nicer and possibly taller that works into the rest of the architecture on that block.

Max stop right there, the walk from the Pearl and other locations in downtown would be very easy. UofO is going to be in that area. Then the need for parking could be addressed by building a garage on the parking lot on 2nd and Ash with condo, office space, and apartments above that.

I still think that location would be the best fit for that, but hell, give the democrats a couple years to take back the White House totally and the money needed to move the Amtrak station could easily happen, then that would be a good possibility too.

New Market Theatre is too small for a large public market like Pike St. It's only about a half a block. Maybe a local market for OT/CT.

[65MAX]

It would fit nicely into the Burnside Bridgehead development as well...with "produce row" adjacent to the project and the proposed streetcar lines for the Central eastside. It would serve a wider section of Portland's community as well as bring more tourism (possibly) to that area.

Burnside Bridgehead would be a great location. :tup:

[robbobpdx]

The problem with putting it around 10th and Morrison is you're limited to a 200' x 200' block. Fine for a neighborhood market, but not big enough for a destination market.

I think at 10th and Morrison (the Galleria) you can go UP !!! so it doesn't need to all be on one floor. Pike market in Seattle is on several floors and works great ! Plus the Galleria has an underground parking garage, plus is next to MAX and the streetcar. Can't figure out why the market folks don't see THAT building as a potential. I don't think three floors of 200 x 200 is so bad. I don't get the reason or connection with the water for the public market. I like our river also, but we're not really a sea port (like Vancouver and Seattle). Seafood is one of the reasons their public markets are on the water. Not sure that quite fits Portland, but :shrug:

Like Mark said earlier, I can't believe they haven't done something so far. Seems they may be waiting for something to fall in their lap rather than really going after something. Otherwise, I think they would have done it by now.

[mcbaby]

New Market Theatre is too small for a large public market like Pike St. It's only about a half a block. Maybe a local market for OT/CT.

you know, if they relocated the family services inside and restored the interior, you'd see that the building isn't so small. it has a couple stories and the lot out front could accomodate tents like they do for saturday market.

[urbanlife]

New Market Theatre is too small for a large public market like Pike St. It's only about a half a block. Maybe a local market for OT/CT.

you are right, but there is ways around that. The New Market Theater is a three story building. But if you include the two buildings next to it and possibly whatever could happen within the garage it would create, that amount of space begins to add up and takes it out of being a one building development and turning it into something much more.

[PDX City-State]

RON PAUL

The Portland Public Market's biggest fan tells his fellow foodies not to give up their dream project after seven years and counting.

BY MIKE THELIN

As you read this, Portland's Ron Paul is 8,000 miles away in India

touting a local project that's yet to leave the ground in his hometown.

The 57-year-old restaurateur-turned-bureaucrat's proposed Portland Public Market seemed dead last July when Mayor Tom Potter and City Commissioner Erik Sten decided not to fund the relocation of Old Town's Central Fire Station. That move would have cleared the way for the year-round food market in the iconic but lifeless Ankeny Square.

But Paul and other public-market supporters have regrouped, aiming the market for the inside and outside of Union Station.

Before Paul jetted to India as one of 55 famous food luminaries and architects invited to speak at the Doors of Perception global conference, WW asked him about his seven-year quest to bring a public market to Portland, the only major Pacific Northwest city without one.

WW: After the tram debacle, why would Portland taxpayers support another publicly funded project like a market?

Ron Paul: A public market is not necessarily appropriate to talk about in the same breath. We're suffering from "post-tram-atic" syndrome. But that's not the substantive environment. The market has a very solid purpose in promoting local agriculture, place-making and locally owned commerce.

Opponents of Major League Baseball here have "Bring Major League Education" bumper stickers that mean education trumps frivolities like sports. Why is your project any less of a frivolity?

Whereas we've never had Major League Baseball, we have had a long and rich tradition of public markets. It's time to reconnect with authentic food sold by authentic providers. That is not frivolous; it's pretty core. The city's role in creating the type of public market we envision is only in a capital contribution. And with Union Station, it's a contribution the city acknowledges it needs to make. The operating expenses are covered by rents the vendors pay.

Wouldn't a central market undermine the city's dozens of neighborhood and farmers markets?

Think of local agriculture on a continuum. From a producer's point of view, you have it beginning with U-pick and farm-stand sales, going to community-supported agriculture, farmers markets, public markets and then on to supermarkets that support locally produced goods. The public market fits into that continuum without diminishing other elements along the chain. So in [Vancouver] and in Seattle, research has shown that the shoppers for farmers markets and public markets do not conflict with each other but broaden the spectrum of people who buy fresher, local products.

How much would it cost to renovate Union Station for a market?

Approximately $5 million to $6 million. To take care of the city's responsibility in deferred maintenance and seismic repair is probably $30 million to $35 million. But the increment for the market could actually be raised privately, so that having a market could exist at no additional public expense if the city understands its obligation in restoring Union Station. The city owns it, it's a landmark on the national registry, and the building continues to deteriorate to an intolerable level.

What's the maximum the city should spend on operations?

Except in extraordinary times, zero. Whatever the tab is for the restoration, coupled with private fundraising, will allow the market to open debt-free.

Given that this still hasn't happened and it's been seven years, what is your reason for optimism?

Well...I've yet to turn completely white. There is optimism for all the reasons we've talked about.
Paul was the first Northwest chef to cook at the James Beard House in New York City. He worked as a chef at 2601 Vaughn (now Meriwether's) before starting his own catering company in 1990.

Paul served as chief of staff to then-City Commissioner Charlie Hales from 1999 to 2002.

Paul believes Vancouver, B.C.'s, Granville Island Market is a good model for Portland.

[MarkDaMan]

what in the hell are questions like these? Seriously, I'd ask about what the market might look like, whether it would be a full time extension of the Saturday Market, what kind of timelines we are looking at before it's completed, sources of available funding? but these???

"After the tram debacle, why would Portland taxpayers support another publicly funded project like a market?"

"Opponents of Major League Baseball here have "Bring Major League Education" bumper stickers that mean education trumps frivolities like sports. Why is your project any less of a frivolity?"

"Wouldn't a central market undermine the city's dozens of neighborhood and farmers markets?"

"Given that this still hasn't happened and it's been seven years, what is your reason for optimism?"

[pdxman]

Typical WW questions...i would really appreciate it if the local media would just put the "tram debacle" to rest. Give it up ka-who? and willamette weak

[PDX City-State]

what in the hell are questions like these? Seriously, I'd ask about what the market might look like, whether it would be a full time extension of the Saturday Market, what kind of timelines we are looking at before it's completed, sources of available funding? but these???

Mark--your reactionary response shows you obviously haven't followed this issue too closely--nor really know too much about these types of projects. Why ask questions to which there are no answers?

As stated, they're back to the drawing board. I imagine they've no idea what it's going to look like. It took them years to get a feasability study together for the old site, and being that the article merely states they've set their sites on Union Station, I would guess they're not there yet.

Timelines? This is lip service--doesn't look like there are timelines either. Paul merely wants to put the market at Union Station. There aren't timelines.

Funding--has there ever been funding for the market? However, Paul does answer this question by making the admission that the market could be built with private funds so long as the city restores Union Station, as it ought to.

I personally believe that questions about costs in light of the tram are pretty damned important. I personally would love to see a market happen, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen with public funds--as Paul seems to have admitted here for the first time in print.

The role of the press is not that of a cheerleader.

I would really appeciate it if the local media would just put the "tram debacle" to rest
Look, I support the tram. But put it to rest? In case you were in a coma last summer, realize this project was killed due to the tram. Dead! And the tram will continue to cast a looming shadow on all public projects for years to come. It was way over budget. And the press is just supposed to pretend like it didn't happen? Maybe Nigel Jaquiss was right--South Waterfront is Portland's Iraq.

[MarkDaMan]

Mark--your reactionary response shows you obviously haven't followed this issue too closely--nor really know too much about these types of projects. Why ask questions to which there are no answers?

actually I have followed this quite closely which is why I made the comment earlier about waking me up when they finally select a site, as it appears this project is failing due to people that can't make final decision. There was never a definitive it is going in FS1, ever. There was consideration of the INS building and parking lot, under the Burnside, even the Customs House was once considered. They aren't at square one, they just need to select an appropriate venue.

I imagine they've no idea what it's going to look like.

I hope you understand I'm not talking about renderings. I mean what kind of vendors do they expect, arts and crafts sellers, farmers, fishermen, all of them. They haven't stipulated a clear vision of what they expect this market to be, so it can't be judged whether or not Union Station would make sense.

Funding--has there ever been funding for the market?

actually, there has been funding available for both planning, and than the next stage of building this market, from both the federal and city level. Since they can't make a decision, much of that funding has dried up.


I personally believe that questions about costs in light of the tram are pretty damned important.

really, there is no building selected, no idea of what might be needed to make it a reality, no preliminary cost figures of what it would take in staffing and annual costs...nothing...so it wouldn't be prudent to ask about funding when the plans are anything but definitive. Is it possible booth rental, PDC assistance, and even donors could cover the cost? This guy hasn't even said it would actually take city funding for it to become reality.

Throwing out an unsubstantiated number is only giving fuel to critics, like the $6B for a new columbia bridge based not on reality, but a hunch. If BoJack and the CPI, and every other 'bitch about everything group' takes the $35M number and runs with it, this project could be doomed before we even know what it might take to make it a reality.

[PDX City-State]

Looks like we agree then--you can't ask questions to which there are no answers.

[MarkDaMan]

and that is sad, after 7 years, 10 years...however long, we still can't get basic question answered. I'd like to see someone else spearhead this!

[PDX City-State]

and that is sad, after 7 years, 10 years...however long, we still can't get basic question answered.

I think that was the point of the interview.

I'd like to see someone else spearhead this!

Agreed, but what we really need is a Paul Allen or Bill Gates who pitches money at such projects. We have no one like that here--and we suffer. Really, it's fucking sad that Portland hasn't a public market. It's the most food-obsessed town I've ever lived in.

[cab]

Seems the project is trying to develop something too high end. Ron Paul is trying to drop out of the sky a character driven local market, top down. That's not how these things grow. 5 years ago if the land on the east side under the Marquam Bridge was provided for people at a very cheap price for commerce, some kind of market would have developed organically into something much bigger by now.

[MarkDaMan]

what we really need is a Paul Allen or Bill Gates who pitches money at such projects. We have no one like that here--and we suffer.

long ago there was a Portland that wasn't reliant on big pockets to make things happened. Portlanders have a long tradition of making things happen without asking daddy for money and I hate to see that culture lost. When Vista House needed a multimillion dollar renovation, Portlanders contributed to the cause. If the powers that be could come up with a basic plan, and basic costs, they could run a similiar campaign and probably raise a heck of a lot of money for the market, as they probably could for the downtown park renovations too.

[PDX City-State]

Seems the project is trying to develop something too high end. Ron Paul is trying to drop out of the sky a character driven local market, top down. That's not how these things grow. 5 years ago if the land on the east side under the Marquam Bridge was provided for people at a very cheap price for commerce, some kind of market would have developed organically into something much bigger by now.

To point out your irony, you accuse Ron Paul of being top down and suggest a market be built where no one lives.

To his credit, Ron Paul is probably the godfather of local and ingredient driven cuisine in this town. I don't know him, but by all accounts he's a good man who absolutely loves Portland.

[zilfondel]

and that is sad, after 7 years, 10 years...however long, we still can't get basic question answered. I'd like to see someone else spearhead this!

amen :(

[Drmyeyes]

I kind of accept the point some have made, that the tram may have been over budget even though its actual cost wasn't inflated. Applied to the situation regarding a public market, cost of such a facility is a question that's very hard to ask until some basics are established. People seem to be vague about what they expect a public market in Portland to be. Is is it a farmers market, a craft market, or both? They also can't decide where it should be. How can the cost of a project be estimated with any exactness until such things are known? Finally, city leaders can avoid the effects of "post-tram-atic" syndrome if they just keep abreast of actual projected costs of projects put together by the people putting bids together, and keep the public accurately informed of them.

[Eagle rock]

I don’t really see why it is such a big deal to build a public market. I mean you could just have a big glass canopy like Le Halles in Paris used to be. How much does it cost to build a big glass canopy? They could put it on those two empty blocks in front of Union Station. Or you could put it into some abandoned warehouse in the inner east side. I mean all you really need for a public market is a large open space in a location where trucks can park to unload produce.

I personally think it is stupid to put the market in Union station. It was built as a train station and that is what it should be. Train travel, whether it be on Amtrak or commuter rail or Max is only going to increase in the coming years and we will need space for passengers.

[cab]

PDX City-state, No disrespect to Ron Paul, I think he is trying hard to do something positive for Portland, I just think his approach is wrong.

The east bank is perfect because it’s a blank slate that these people involved in the effort can help define. Ron Paul keeps trying to redefine existing spaces. What is ironic is a PUBLIC market trying to forcefully remove a Saturday market that grew organically into its space. Or parasitically latching onto an existing, functioning rail station, he keeps trying to replace an asset with another asset.

You have an empty cheap space on the eastside with a lot of potential (talk about a clone of Granview Is.) that has an opportunity to be beautiful without displacing anything else in the process. Its a win win.

[PDX City-State]

Cab--all very good points. Portland Saturday Market truly reflects the character of this city--whether we like it or not.

[mcbaby]

I don’t really see why it is such a big deal to build a public market. I mean you could just have a big glass canopy like Le Halles in Paris used to be. How much does it cost to build a big glass canopy? They could put it on those two empty blocks in front of Union Station. Or you could put it into some abandoned warehouse in the inner east side. I mean all you really need for a public market is a large open space in a location where trucks can park to unload produce.

I personally think it is stupid to put the market in Union station. It was built as a train station and that is what it should be. Train travel, whether it be on Amtrak or commuter rail or Max is only going to increase in the coming years and we will need space for passengers.

amen.

[pdxman]

^^^Nothing is that easy or simple in portland. Things take FOREVER to get done. Its called the portland process: 1. create groups or task forces to study the issue 2. have millions of meetings 3. study the issue again, and again, and again, and...now take this process and tack on about 3-4 years to the original timeline and thats how its done. There's no such thing as a "Fast track" in portland, or oregon for that matter.

[brandonpdx]

Maybe Nigel Jaquiss was right--South Waterfront is Portland's Iraq.

Nigel Jaquiss article was completely short sighted. In ten years nobody will be talking about how over budget the tram was. They'll be talking about what a great monument of urban planning SoWa is.

In ten years we'll still be talking about where we should locate a public market and how the city lost it's opportunity to locate the public market where the remodeld fire station bunker that creates a dead pedestrian zone is.

Erik Sten where are you? Sam Adams, quiet Dan, Lents Leanord, of course Tom Potter are all shying away! step up, take a risk...be a hero. We all only live once and playing it safe is dull and won't win my 1 vote next time around.

Although, cab you may be on to something. In the model of Granville we could have little boats zipping us across the Willammette to our Eastbank Public Market. it would all be a part of the experience.

[PDX City-State]

In the model of Granville we could have little boats zipping us across the Willammette to our Eastbank Public Market. it would all be a part of the experience.

Except the city plans as if the river didn't exist.

[zilfondel]

cab: too right about replacing the spaces.

Granville Island in Vancouver was built across False Creek from downtown in an old industrial site; it sits below what is almost a freeway and includes workshop space for the community, children's educational programs (kind of like OMSI, but less institutional) and a public market closer to Pike's.

Anyways, it WOULD be a perfect fit over on the eastside: not only is the land cheaper and more room to spread out (without having to displace much), but most of Portland's population is also on the eastside, so one would think it would be a good fit. There are also a couple of blocks over by the end of the Marquam bridge, where there are a couple of warehouses being renovated, that allow a connection to the Esplanade. People could easily bike to it!

Could be the new landmark for the CEID renaissance.

[cab]

It also would be the opportunity to create a water taxi business connecting east and west. You have the best walking and biking bridge in the city right at the site, lots of parking, it's a good place to start the bike loop around the city, that kayaking retail place could help more vistors get on the river, it just a cool casual area that adds that river component to the city. The market would really give it that critical mass it needs to be a destination.

[pdxskyline]

I'm not exactly sure that Union Station would really work out well as a market. Maybe, if they got rid of the ugly post office and put it there, that would be a better connection between Union Station, the Pearl, and Old Town. Union Station seems too isolated from the Pearl right now for this to fly.

Location is everything, as Portland's history in regards to public markets goes. The first major market was on Yamhill Street- Fred Meyer got his start there. Then about in the 30's or so, the city decided that the Yamhill Market was "too crowded", and spent tons of money on a new market building right on the waterfront. The planning and construction processes were entirely corrupt, costs spiraled out of control, and, after Harbor Drive surrounded it, it was a weird location for customers. Vendors couldn't afford the rents, and it was closed. It went through different uses between abandonments and demolition for Waterfront Park. It was truely a white elephant worse than the tram's overruns. Had the city just left the Yamhill market alone, maybe we'd still have it today. In fact, the fact that the Yamhill Market was so overcrowded was exactly what made it work.

The eastside definetly has the potential for a great, expandable market. That or something over I-405, close to PSU maybe? It'd be really cool if they completely covered the 405/26 interchange, restored the street grid, and put it right there. The West End, PSU, Goose Hollow, and SW Portland would really get into that I think.

[Drmyeyes]

I wish we had a picture of the old Yamhill Market. Not old enough to have seen it in its heydey. Can't remember if it was on 6th or 5th. I remember it as a fascinating contribution to the downtown experience though; all those brilliantly colored fruits and vegetables glowing out of the gloom of Oregon winter. Never ever seen a really good picture of the market building on the waterfront either. Have heard the story about its dismal failure before though.

I think up through the mid 60's, 6th Av still had an old style newstand too. Made a great impression on me. Too bad there isn't some sort of modern counterpart to that; an i-pod download vendor or something.

[65MAX]

"...after Harbor Drive surrounded it, it was a weird location for customers. .... It went through different uses between abandonments and demolition for Waterfront Park."

Sounds like it was just south of the Morrison Bridge.

I agree that north of OMSI on the eastbank would be a great location for a public market. Besides all of the aforementioned positive attributes, it has great views of DT and SoWa. And this would definitely be a catalyst for the Water Taxi.

[Stepping Razor]

I wish we had a picture of the old Yamhill Market. Not old enough to have seen it in its heydey. Can't remember if it was on 6th or 5th. I remember it as a fascinating contribution to the downtown experience though; all those brilliantly colored fruits and vegetables glowing out of the gloom of Oregon winter. Never ever seen a really good picture of the market building on the waterfront either. Have heard the story about its dismal failure before though.

I think up through the mid 60's, 6th Av still had an old style newstand too. Made a great impression on me. Too bad there isn't some sort of modern counterpart to that; an i-pod download vendor or something.

Couldn't find an online pic of the old Yamhill market online, although they have a lot down at the Historical Society.

Here's one shot of the waterfront market, in its later incarnation as the Journal building. I've seen a better pic of the huge market building with the Battleship Oregon parked in front of it (this was the configuration in the late 1930s) but I can't find it in the Google either...

So here's all I got. Thank god that freeway is gone. (Now let's get rid of the eastbank too...)

http://www.historicphotoarchive.com/images7/00417.jpg

[robbobpdx]

:previous: There's a great website that has a huge collection of Portland history on it. It's at pdxhistory.com (http://www.pdxhistory.com). Also, they have a specific sub-page just for the historic public market (http://www.pdxhistory.com/html/public_market.html).

On the PDX history "site map" (http://www.pdxhistory.com/html/index.htm) page there is a small photo with the old market building with the battleship Oregon parked in front. I tried to copy it, but it ended up about the size of a postage stamp in my system, and don't have software at home to edit it. But there are lots of photos of the market, not to mention the story about it, on the specific sub-page noted above.

By the way, just saw this article in The Oregonian the other day. This MAY mean the public market will need to go somewhere else. I, for one, am glad to see the train station continuing to be used as a train station. This funding will help historic Union Station do just that. It was built for trains, and should stay that way as long as possible.

I wish the public market folks well, but just not at the Union Station (sorry).

UNION STATION GETS MONEY

Thursday, March 01, 2007
Union Station, 13 other projects get state money

The Oregon Transportation Commission has approved $1.2 million for restoration of Portland's Union Station as part of a package of "enhancement" projects around the state.

The commission approved 14 projects totaling $11.3 million under a federal program that provides money for projects that strengthen the cultural, aesthetic and environmental value of the transportation system.

An advisory committee selected the winners out of 75 applications. Recipients must provide at least 10.27 percent of the project costs.

Other winning projects and costs were: Corvallis-Albany Trail, $460,000; Brownsville, Main Street gateway and streetscape, $850,000; Culver, A to D street sidewalk and streetscape, $800,000; Eugene, East Bank Trail, Delta Ponds Path Bridge, $1 million; Gaston, Park Street and Main Street sidewalk connections, $1.12 million; Gresham-Fairview Trail, Powell Boulevard overpass, $800,000; Haines, Third Street sidewalk, $340,000; Hubbard, Oregon 99 sidewalk, $890,000; Jackson County, Bear Creek Greenway Trail, $840,000; Maupin, Deschutes Avenue lighting, $280,000; Historic Columbia River Highway trail, $920,000; Rogue River Greenway Trail, $800,000; and, Salem, Union Street railroad bridge: $1 million.
-- James Mayer

[Drmyeyes]

Nice page on the old public market over at pdxhistory. Thanks robbob. I had no idea. What a concept for the time...parking on the roof. Loved that interior illustration. Not a great building, but those towers leave an impression.

Check out the Bayocean page too.

Here-here!...for trains at the train station. I'd love to see it vibrant again. I actually miss the big railyard, but it was doomed for a long time.

[65MAX]

I had an idea while discussing the future of the Memorial Coliseum in a different thread, but it belongs here. Why not convert the MC in a new Public Market?

You've already got loading docks, easy access to transit and freeways, a concourse around the perimeter for food stalls (which could be opened up to the outside), plenty of restrooms, and a central area with seating for special events, daytime and nighttime concerts or just presentations on the big screen (possible advertising revenue). There's plenty of space for restaurants above the concourse level.

Add some high density housing and create an actual neighborhood around the MC with streets and shops and clubs, then presto, Rose Quarter is born. (Finally)

It's also close to the Convention Center, for instant access by conventioneers.

Does anyone see any negatives here?

[IHEARTPDX]

From the "Local News Daily"
http://www.localnewsdaily.com/news/story.php?story_id=119083835216826200

Public Market sets sights on new home
Union Station out as Melvin Mark offers different location

By Jennifer Anderson

The proposal to house a year-round public market at the historic Union Station building appears to be dead in the water, since the Portland Public Market Foundation mow has set its sights on a new location.

The new plan is for the much-talked-about market is to occupy the ground floor of the federal homeland security office at 511 S.W. Broadway, when that operation relocates.
**I don't think the address is quite right...I think that should be 511 NW Broadway :shrug:
Portland’s Melvin Mark Development Company plans to acquire the building from its current owner, the U.S. General Services Administration, within two years, Paul said.

Melvin Mark would then lease the ground floor of the building – 37,000-square feet, or a full city block – to the foundation, which would offer space seven days a week to vendors of fresh and locally grown produce, meats, baked goods and flowers.

To Ron Paul, the market’s biggest champion and consulting director of the foundation, the partnership is the perfect solution.

“Politically, economically and operationally, it is an answer to many problem that Union Station had raised,” he said. Occupying part of Union Station, alongside the existing rail operations, would have been dependent on the city and Portland Development Commission addressing the $40 million in seismic upgrades and other renovation costs.

The amount of available space and the layout at the 511 Building is also better for the market, Paul said. While the site had been one of the leading options for a public market site since 2001, he said, his dilemma was what to do with the upper floors of the building.

He had not known about Melvin Mark’s interest in the building until recently.

The plan would be for the market to be the anchor the building, with the rest of it developed into mixed-use space, including residential and commercial units.

Paul said he’s shooting for occupying the building about three years from the time Melvin Mark takes control of the building, and his goal would be to own its own space within a decade.

“We’ve encountered a gift, in terms of a willing and capable public-private partnership,” he said. “We are very engaged in seeing this option all the way through.”

On a side note, the public market foundation’s board voted today to intend to name the market after the late James Beard, the nationally known, Oregon born chef and culinary expert.

This week is also the James Beard Foundation’s “Taste America” event, which is happening at various locations including Union Station and the Williams-Sonoma at Washington Square. Finally, the public market will be the subject of discussion at the Portland City Club on Friday.

[sopdx]

This location was one of the originals ard probably the best. It's an awesome building. I believe the parking lot behind is going back to park space as well.

I think the market will open about the same time the Burnside Bridgehead starts construction :).

[urbanlife]

yeah, that is a sweet building and might be one of the best sites for it in the long run. There is the parking lot that could go back to being a park. The vacant block to the east. The post office building. All of which could easily grow into something quite amazing aroung the market.

[PDX City-State]

Public Marketing?????

What’s missing from the push for a portland public market? The public.

Last Friday night, more than 500 Portlanders paid $50 apiece to attend a fundraiser at Union Station for the proposed Portland Public Market. The iconic train station was packed with people excited by the idea of creating a local version of Seattle’s Pike Place Market, mostly well-heeled Portlanders slurping pinot and chowing vittles by stalwart chefs with names like Paley and Higgins to the tune of a live jazz duo.

The market does sounds like a perfect fit for food-obsessed PDX. Too bad this same party has been taking place for nearly a decade. Although, in the latest twist, a new site for the market emerged just 48 hours before the soiree.

Since 1999, chef turned politico Ron Paul and a cadre of local foodies and bureaucrats have been on a mission to land a public market downtown. The crusade was sparked in 1993 when Heidi Yorkshire, a volunteer for Portland Farmers Market (now a WW contributor), wrote a proposal for a public market hall with rent-paying tenants that could provide a permanent, year-round home for the Portland Farmers Market.

This blueprint became the framework for the Public Market. However, it soon became clear that the proposed site, Ankeny Square, couldn’t accommodate the growing downtown Farmers Market, and the parties went their separate ways. The Farmers Market stayed in the downtown Park Blocks, and Paul and company focused on the concept of a separate Public Market filled with local produce, vendors and restaurants.

Nearly a decade later, the two markets no longer aim to fill the same niche. “The Public Market opens economic opportunities for farms that are too big for a farmers market,” says City Commissioner Dan Saltzman, who’s a member of the Public Market board. “But still committed to the ideals of sustainability.”

To date, the Public Market concept has garnered $470,000 in earmarked congressional funding ($300,000 was contingent on the Ankeny Square site). It’s raised approximately $70,000 more at various fundraisers. Meanwhile, the proposed site for the Public Market has changed twice just in the past year. Union Station was the preferred spot until last Wednesday, when real-estate developer the Melvin Mark Company announced it had struck a deal with the Public Market Foundation to house the Public Market in a federal building at 511 NW Broadway, currently occupied by the Department of Homeland Security. But don’t get hungry yet. Paul says the project will not be completed until 2013—at the earliest.

Great...so why is this all taking so long? Paul blames the long delay on funding and a lack of political will. But I think a local PR guru has a better answer:

“The market is not part of daily conversation,” says Lisa Donoughe, a local media-relations strategist. “Initiatives like this need to be integrated into the community on all levels so the buzz builds and builds.”

Interesting. Now, let’s take a closer look at who wasn’t at Friday night’s fundraiser:

I didn’t see any of the ethnic food vendors, farmers, fishmongers and cheese merchants who would fill the proposed market’s stalls. And where were the chocolatiers and the butchers? Most importantly, where were the young and roguish Portland chefs getting so much ink in top food publications? How do they feel about a PDX public market?

“I don’t really know anything about it, to be honest,” says Andy Ricker, whose Thai shack Pok Pok was featured last week in a dashing New York Times write-up.

Of the six chefs I queried, only Le Pigeon’s Gabriel Rucker knew about the fundraiser, but that’s because he was asked to take part. (He gave a cooking demo later that weekend at Williams-Sonoma in the Washington Square Mall.)

While the public market has floundered, its inspiration, the Portland Farmers Market, has grown into a financially stable entity operating four markets, three days a week, nine months of the year—and without a penny of the dole.

“The city hasn’t given us dick,” says Farmers Market Vice President and Park Kitchen chef-owner Scott Dolich. “And we haven’t asked for dick.”

The city charges the Farmers Market $1,750 a month to use its public land, even as the market lures around 500,000 shoppers downtown each year. To put that in perspective, Seattle charges its city’s Neighborhood Farmer’s Market Association $200 for an entire season at one of its farmers markets. I’d argue that the secret to its success is exactly what the Public Market is missing—it feels homegrown.

So we have a thriving Farmers Market network that’s not being helped by the city, and we have a Public Market that is a superb idea but still stuck on the drawing board. Paul says in order for the market to open sometime this century the city needs to allocate an additional $8 million in funding, but the city isn’t even supporting our market that already exists.

These questions need to be addressed. In the meantime, maybe the Portland Public Market should rethink its audience to include all those vendors, young chefs and Portlanders who can’t afford to shell out $50 for a staid fundraising dinner and start building the kind of enthusiasm and momentum that national publications seem to say our food scene already has. That is, if it ever wants to resonate with any local community larger than cheese-nibbling benefactors.

[mcbaby]

Public Marketing?????

What’s missing from the push for a portland public market? The public.

Last Friday night, more than 500 Portlanders paid $50 apiece to attend a fundraiser at Union Station for the proposed Portland Public Market. The iconic train station was packed with people excited by the idea of creating a local version of Seattle’s Pike Place Market, mostly well-heeled Portlanders slurping pinot and chowing vittles by stalwart chefs with names like Paley and Higgins to the tune of a live jazz duo.

The market does sounds like a perfect fit for food-obsessed PDX. Too bad this same party has been taking place for nearly a decade. Although, in the latest twist, a new site for the market emerged just 48 hours before the soiree.

Since 1999, chef turned politico Ron Paul and a cadre of local foodies and bureaucrats have been on a mission to land a public market downtown. The crusade was sparked in 1993 when Heidi Yorkshire, a volunteer for Portland Farmers Market (now a WW contributor), wrote a proposal for a public market hall with rent-paying tenants that could provide a permanent, year-round home for the Portland Farmers Market.

This blueprint became the framework for the Public Market. However, it soon became clear that the proposed site, Ankeny Square, couldn’t accommodate the growing downtown Farmers Market, and the parties went their separate ways. The Farmers Market stayed in the downtown Park Blocks, and Paul and company focused on the concept of a separate Public Market filled with local produce, vendors and restaurants.

Nearly a decade later, the two markets no longer aim to fill the same niche. “The Public Market opens economic opportunities for farms that are too big for a farmers market,” says City Commissioner Dan Saltzman, who’s a member of the Public Market board. “But still committed to the ideals of sustainability.”

To date, the Public Market concept has garnered $470,000 in earmarked congressional funding ($300,000 was contingent on the Ankeny Square site). It’s raised approximately $70,000 more at various fundraisers. Meanwhile, the proposed site for the Public Market has changed twice just in the past year. Union Station was the preferred spot until last Wednesday, when real-estate developer the Melvin Mark Company announced it had struck a deal with the Public Market Foundation to house the Public Market in a federal building at 511 NW Broadway, currently occupied by the Department of Homeland Security. But don’t get hungry yet. Paul says the project will not be completed until 2013—at the earliest.

Great...so why is this all taking so long? Paul blames the long delay on funding and a lack of political will. But I think a local PR guru has a better answer:

“The market is not part of daily conversation,” says Lisa Donoughe, a local media-relations strategist. “Initiatives like this need to be integrated into the community on all levels so the buzz builds and builds.”

Interesting. Now, let’s take a closer look at who wasn’t at Friday night’s fundraiser:

I didn’t see any of the ethnic food vendors, farmers, fishmongers and cheese merchants who would fill the proposed market’s stalls. And where were the chocolatiers and the butchers? Most importantly, where were the young and roguish Portland chefs getting so much ink in top food publications? How do they feel about a PDX public market?

“I don’t really know anything about it, to be honest,” says Andy Ricker, whose Thai shack Pok Pok was featured last week in a dashing New York Times write-up.

Of the six chefs I queried, only Le Pigeon’s Gabriel Rucker knew about the fundraiser, but that’s because he was asked to take part. (He gave a cooking demo later that weekend at Williams-Sonoma in the Washington Square Mall.)

While the public market has floundered, its inspiration, the Portland Farmers Market, has grown into a financially stable entity operating four markets, three days a week, nine months of the year—and without a penny of the dole.

“The city hasn’t given us dick,” says Farmers Market Vice President and Park Kitchen chef-owner Scott Dolich. “And we haven’t asked for dick.”

The city charges the Farmers Market $1,750 a month to use its public land, even as the market lures around 500,000 shoppers downtown each year. To put that in perspective, Seattle charges its city’s Neighborhood Farmer’s Market Association $200 for an entire season at one of its farmers markets. I’d argue that the secret to its success is exactly what the Public Market is missing—it feels homegrown.

So we have a thriving Farmers Market network that’s not being helped by the city, and we have a Public Market that is a superb idea but still stuck on the drawing board. Paul says in order for the market to open sometime this century the city needs to allocate an additional $8 million in funding, but the city isn’t even supporting our market that already exists.

These questions need to be addressed. In the meantime, maybe the Portland Public Market should rethink its audience to include all those vendors, young chefs and Portlanders who can’t afford to shell out $50 for a staid fundraising dinner and start building the kind of enthusiasm and momentum that national publications seem to say our food scene already has. That is, if it ever wants to resonate with any local community larger than cheese-nibbling benefactors.

right on!

[pdxman]

Now it looks like PNCA is interested in the broadway building too...it will be interesting to see what happens with that. If they really do want it, my guess is that the public market will lose out because of $.

[MarkDaMan]

PNCA, Public Market spar over 511 Building
Two potential tenants fight over one property, with each arguing it would be a ‘catalyst’ for Old Town
POSTED: 05:00 AM PST Wednesday, October 31, 2007
BY TYLER GRAF
Daily Journal of Commerce

An Old Town Internet café was hot and bustling Monday as two vying interests lobbied Portlanders and the city’s Development Commission to be the next tenant of a redeveloped 511 Building.

The PDC intended the gathering to be an opportunity for neighborhood residents to offer input on the redevelopment of the historic 91-year-old property. But lacking a formal presentation and encumbered by the modest location, some attendees left the Backspace café feeling frustrated.

Still, amid the throngs of Portland developers and residents, representatives for the building’s two would-be tenants – the Pacific Northwest College of Art and the Portland Public Market – lobbied for their prospective developments.

Across from the PDC’s display outlining its redevelopment criteria was an area for the public to post comments. But 40 minutes passed without a single one. The message board – large segments of construction paper – went unadorned; then a woman began writing, leaving the first public comment of the evening.

Laura Hill sits on the PNCA board and believes the school would best fit the neighborhood. For her, the redevelopment is more about the potential of the district – a vital and quickly developing link between Old Town and the Pearl District – than simply about one building. She says she’s “disappointed” the PDC isn’t framing the discussions that way.

“Having been through the building, I agree that it should be an avenue for as many people as possible,” Hill said. “Because it’s historic, you can’t change the shell of the building.”

Hill envisions an anchor building that acts as a “catalyst” for future development – a building that grounds the neighborhood in arts, culture and education.

It isn’t a far cry from how the Portland Public Market views the building or the neighborhood either. Ron Paul, a Portland chef and former city staffer who is working on the Portland Public Market, said he “sees a catalyst at the 511 Building.”

“The time is right and ripe for redevelopment,” Paul said.

Disappointed by the meeting, Paul said he would have appreciated greater feedback from the PDC prior to the gathering. Although the PDC posted its development criteria, Monday’s gathering, Paul said, marked the first time he’d seen it.

The criteria for the 135,580-square-foot building include building it to green standards and implementing a public participation plan.

The Portland Public Market, Paul said, would create a market district, which he said is essential to community connectivity. Markets connect the urban – the consumers – with the rural – the providers – especially if the market isn’t “just interested in the yuppie food merchants,” he said.

By virtue of its status as a school, Paul says the PNCA would have a much easier time relocating to another location – he named the vacant U.S. Custom House as an example – and said the 511 Building is the only option for the Portland Public Market.

Hill said the PNCA has worked to secure the 511 Building for six months but has talked to other building owners as well. But with its voluminous ground floor and ample floor space, she said, the 511 Building is still the best location for the school.

The Portland Public Market, Paul says, would return the building to the tax rolls, house about 25 local businesses and employ about 250 people.

But Hill says the building has insufficient loading docks. Paul disagrees.

“The loading dock on Hoyt is one of the gifts of the building,” Paul said.

Overall, the building is only a piece in the PDC’s Broadway puzzle – there are development opportunities on adjacent blocks, running parallel to the 511 Building. And Lew Bowers of the PDC says Greyhound is amenable to selling its property on Sixth Avenue and cohabitating with Amtrak in Union Station.

“We want to work with friendly properties, or properties we have some control over,” Bowers said. But a move by Greyhound could create a problem for bus docking, so the discussions will continue.

Developer Art DeMuro of Venerable Properties was on hand and said that, if anything, he’d like the PDC to look at other potential tenants, and said its focus on only two potential tenants is too myopic.

“You only have two leading horses in that race,” DeMuro said.

In addition to PNCA and the Public Market, DeMuro would like more options – for-profit sectors that might have better opportunities to shore up revenue and keep afloat in the future.

Throughout the event, Hill maintained the PDC should do not only what is cost-effective but also what’s in the public’s best interest. And toward the end of the gathering, with three new messages added to the public sounding board, it appeared her feelings were shared.

“Respect historic character of the building,” one commenter wrote.

Review criteria for the building will be submitted by Nov. 15, while proposals are due Jan. 15, 2008.
http://www.djcoregon.com/articleDetail.htm/2007/10/31/PNCA-Public-Market-spar-over-511-Building-Two-potential-tenants-fight-over-one-property-with-each-ar

[MarkDaMan]

I've heard that the Custom House to hotel project is pretty much dead. Why can't the Custom House hold one venue, and the 511 building the other?

http://www.gsa.gov/graphics/pbs/hb/or0025.gif
Custom House (www.gsa.gov)

[PacificNW]

Great idea Mark! Although utilizing the Greyhound bus station as the market site has merits, also. I think the bus docks quandary at Union Station can be solved...especially if they place the bus loading area in the west area of the station where baggage claim is located.

[urbanlife]

between PNCA and the Portland Public Market, I think the market should take first priority between the two when it comes to joining areas together. That is something that will be a great service to all of Portland. PNCA is an expensive private art school, let them find their own space and pay market rate for it. If they really need a set number of open space, why not work with one of the developers and join into a new building or better yet, use the Customs House. That would give PNCA a bit of a prestigious look with that building in their portfolio.

[rsbear]

Ok, sorry to have to ask this, but what happened to bus depot? Is it no longer in use? If not, where's the Greyhound depot now days? Man, you leave town for 17 years and look what happens! :haha:

[PacificNW]

The Greyhound station is still located in their building situated next to Union Station....I understand they are open to relocating....probably if the price and location are right...

[sopdx]

The 511 building seems better suited for a public market w/the high ceilings, huge windows, it would have an old world feel to it. If the Customs House deal is dead, it seems like a perfect spot for PNCA and would be right next door to the recently refurbished Daisy Kindom building containing the Museum of Contemporary Craft, Blue Sky, etc...

[tworivers]

Ouch! Looks like PNCA is playing hardball. Too bad, because I'd much rather see a public market in that building.

PDC puts 511 Building on hold

POSTED: 12:57 PM PST Monday, November 12, 2007
BY TYLER GRAF

The Portland Development Commission announced Friday that it will stall the proposal process for the redevelopment of the 511 Building. There are currently two contenders for the building -- chef Ron Paul's open market, and the Pacific Northwest College of Art's new class space.

Earlier in the week, the PNCA told the PDC it was going directly to the General Services Administration, through the Department of Education, to acquire the building. They will ask for an Educational Use Transfer, which does not require the support of the PDC. Basically, the ball is in the GSA's court, and until it makes a decision the PDC will not make a move.

Interested parties can find out more at the Nov. 14 PDC board meeting.

[MarkDaMan]

yeah...hardball in Portland. I love it!!!

[zilfondel]

A pity. I liked their (prob more expensive) Allied Works campus proposal that has been in the works for the past few years. It would've contained their campus around the existing building they have.

[PDX City-State]

The PDC will vote this afternoon to stop the competitive process for the public market as PNCA, which has been pursuing this building for 14 months and actually has the money to transform it, is going to exercise its right to an educational-use transfer from GSA. Looks like the Public Market will be without a location as of 7pm this evening--unless something out-of-the-ordinary happens.

[PacificNW]

They still may have the Greyhound terminal option...

[MarkDaMan]

Thwarted, PDC cancels 511 RFP
The PNCA bypasses the agency and goes right to the government to ask for the property, which it always had the right to do
POSTED: 06:00 AM PST Friday, November 16, 2007
BY TYLER GRAF
Daily Journal of Commerce

The Portland Development Commission on Wednesday halted its proposal process for Old Town’s historic and federally owned 511 Building after the Pacific Northwest College of Art – one of two vocal contenders for the property along with local chef Ron Paul’s Portland Public Market – bailed out of the process to deal directly with the government.

After spending nine months studying an acquisition of the building, the PNCA decided to circumvent the PDC process and appeal directly to the federal Department of Education through the General Services Administration, which helps federal agencies obtain affordable real estate.

“For us to pass on going directly through the General Services Administration, it would be irresponsible,” Phyllis Oster, an adviser to the college, said

The GSA owns the property, not the PDC – a major sticking point for supporters of the art school who say the lack of specifics, and the preponderance of what-ifs, could conceivably bog the process down for everyone involved.

“Why are we going through all this time, effort and expense on a building the PDC doesn’t even have?” Laura Hill, chairwoman of a PNCA planning committee, said. “We might as well just pick another hypothetical building.”

Through the DOE, the college can acquire the property at negligible or no cost. Previously, the PDC hoped to get the property directly from the GSA and pass it along to either the PNCA, the public market and developer Melvin Mark, or a conceivable third party at fair market value.

“From the (PNCA’s) perspective, they will be receiving a property for practically free,” GSA spokesman Bill Lesh said.

Strict federal guidelines allow certain entities – including educational organizations – to obtain surplus government property for free. A non-negotiable sale is sometimes an option, but one not open to the college.

“Often a city government, in this case the PDC, would make arrangements to acquire the property for somebody who wasn’t eligible to buy it or get it directly,” Lesh said. And that’s what the PDC wanted to do.

Not anymore.

The coming year will pose challenges to the college, PNCA supporters say. The rapidly growing art school – enrollment has blossomed 44 percent since 2005 – has a burgeoning Master of Fine Arts program that began this fall.

And in early 2007, the school scored a $15 million gift from Southern Oregon philanthropist Hallie Ford – a gift Gov. Ted Kulongoski called one of the largest given to a cultural institution in Oregon.

“For us not to have a secure foundation, by not owning any of our own facilities, it really puts our future in jeopardy,” Oster said.

The government carefully scrutinizes organizations hoping to acquire property, to make sure they’re capable of maintaining the structural and aesthetic qualities of the buildings, Lesh said.

That shouldn’t be a problem according to the GSA and the school.

The increase in capital, along with the school’s perceived need to expand, make property ownership a paramount goal. The school currently leases its Pearl District building and is one of 37 independent art schools in the nation that doesn’t own any property.

But the resulting dissolution of the PDC process means Ron Paul’s proposed public market is once again on the backburner. For supporters of the market, it’s an inconceivable 180 degree shift from the PDC’s stated goals of only a month ago.

“What’s changed?” Paul asked the PDC board at Wednesday’s meeting.

According to representatives of the college, nothing, because the PDC and everyone involved in the process always knew the college could appeal directly to the government.

Still, Paul emphasized the strong partnership he’s forged with Melvin Mark and the public benefit his development would have on the community. He said he fears the PDC’s decision to halt the process will “rob the community and neighborhood groups from having a say.”

With the wheels set in motion, the PNCA now must file a formal application with the DOE, which will take at least three months to review it before passing it along to the GSA for a final decision.
http://www.djcoregon.com/articleDetail.htm/2007/11/16/Thwarted-PDC-cancels-511-RFP-The-PNCA-bypasses-the-agency-and-goes-right-to-the-government-to-ask-fo

[PDX City-State]

East and Eden

The public market has lost its digs. Should it shift its gaze eastward?

BY MIKE THELIN

After a Portland Development Commission vote, the Portland Public Market’s nearly decade-long search for a home has collapsed again.

The Pacific Northwest College of Art outmaneuvered backers of the proposed market, after both sought the historic 511 Broadway Building as a future home. Market supporters got the bad news when the PDC voted last Wednesday to bow out of the public process. PNCA exercised an option called an “educational-use transfer,” which gives academic institutions the right to bypass local processes and negotiate directly with the federal government, which owns the building.

In the past month, a lot of ink has been spilled in the local media trying to determine the best use of the 511 Building, and the PDC made the right choice. PNCA is a well-funded entity that has been around for a century while the public market has little momentum and doesn’t exist .

Before market backers regroup and home in on the next iconic building (in the past they’ve also had their hearts set on Union Station and the Skidmore Fountain building to house a PDX version of Seattle’s Pike Place Market ), they ought to explore why their efforts continue to fail. In food-obsessed Portland, a year-round market should have been an easy sell.

Back in the ’80s, Ron Paul and Amelia Hard, the market’s principal backers, helped sprout the city’s culinary movement. But PDX no longer resembles the place for which the original, 1993 Public Market proposal was penned. It called for a home for bakeries, coffee shops, wine merchants, and specialty-foods purveyors—amenities that Portland now has. In 1993, there was no New Seasons Market or Ken’s Artisan Bakery. And the Farmers Market was dinky.

Today, entrepreneurs have filled the niches that the city once lacked, while our Portland Farmers Market is lauded as one of the nation’s best. From nationally acclaimed restaurants to a thriving food-cart culture, Portland houses an impressive amount of foodie micro-enterprises.

That Portland needs a “kitchen and pantry” is Paul’s favorite one-liner, but PDX has plenty of them. What it doesn’t have is a landmark, year-round market and forum for food and food education. Safe to say that will only happen if a concerted effort is made to engage the public. A recent poll on the local foodie website Portlandfoodanddrink.com expressed overwhelming reader support for a year-round public market, but market backers have failed to harness this enthusiasm. In the days prior to the PDC hearing, public market backers didn’t even send out a press release to muster support for its 511 bid.

Vancouver, B.C.’s, Granville Island Public Market is a project Ron Paul often cites as an example for Portland. In 1979, it didn’t begin life housed in an iconic shell, but in a bunch of nondescript metal buildings that would transform an industrial wasteland into a showcase for gastronomy. PDX’s Central Eastside Industrial District could be our Granville Island. It’s where land is cheaper, urban renewal funds are available and Portland’s creative heart most strongly beats.

“The eastside wasn’t a viable location six years ago,” remembers veteran Portland chef David Machado. “Today it’s a viable location.”

Imagine taking a ferry—like in Vancouver, B.C.—across the Willamette River from Tom McCall Waterfront Park to the James Beard Public Market on the Eastside Waterfront: a collaborative effort of foodies like Paul and Hard plus the cadre of young chefs and artisans currently not part of the effort. It would be the right revitalizing project for the close-in east side and a link to the historic Produce Row in an industrial area where thousands already work.

“The river is no longer a barrier for people to engage with a public market,” says Brad Malsin, whose Beam Development is already busy reinventing portions of the inner east side.

Regardless of location, Ron Paul needs to take his message beyond bureaucrats and City Club debates. He needs to take to the streets, engaging the public. In addition to the sporadic (but necessary) fundraising galas, why not shut down traffic and plan a midnight market on the Burnside Bridge in the middle of July? Make us feel it, Ron!

Portlander James Beard famously said, “Food is our common ground.” So if we’re to honor his legacy with a showcase market, the effort ought to be our common ground as well.

Originally Published on

Find this story at www.wweek.com/editorial/3402/9988

[MarkDaMan]

I know there are Ron Paul friends on here so I'm trying not to be critical...but I'm not sure he is the right person to be pushing this market if he's been trying since the 80s. Sure, let him serve on a board, but I'd also like to see several local chefs step up and push this too. I'd also imagine the county or city has some space somewhere they could give for a cheap cost and start a smaller year round market while more permanent digs are located.

[alexjon]

They aren't trying to create a working market like Pike Place Market, they're trying to create a boutique Marie Antoinette-esque playground. A market shouldn't include the Saturday Market elements as an afterthought, it should be built AROUND the Saturday Market, like every other major market in the country.

Vancouver built one to this end, and cities like San Antonio and Flagstaff have had them for a while.

I think they should find the most accessible and trafficked place up for grabs and build it. There is no real need to have it on the waterfront except to be a tourist attraction-- so if there aren't options in the immediate area, start looking in other parts of town. The West End would be a great place. Or a nice market center at 10th and Alder. It's next to the culinary institute-- it would get tourist AND local use, for sure. Plop down an underground parking structure, ground level inner market, rooftop terraced market plaza. Something like that.

I don't know, I'm kinda frustrated at the speed and process here.

[PDX City-State]

Mark: your sentiments echo what a lot of people have been saying for a long time in private. Everyone likes Ron Paul--everyone--but he's not the guy to get this done.

[zilfondel]

Tear down the Lloyd Center and plop down a large public market.

Or better yet, give Opus the boot and let 'em build a couple of metal shed barns like they have in Granville there. Would be a lot cheaper, too - and could probably be finished within a month.


A market shouldn't include the Saturday Market elements as an afterthought, it should be built AROUND the Saturday Market, like every other major market in the country.

Bingo. You need to combine multiple events/activities together like this to make it equally attractive for tourists as well as local shoppers - public markets need as large of a market base as possible in order to survive and prosper.

The West End would be a great place.

I think the West End would be a horrible place for a market. Don't you guys know that 85% of Portlanders live on the east side and most loathe to even think about going downtown? Are you trying to give them a valid reason to have to pay for parking?

===

I can't believe I read that article backwards.

[joeplayer1989]

Best thing ever that could happen for old town would be a public market!

[IHEARTPDX]

Northeast Foodies: The Hub is Coming
by Christina Melander
The Oregonian
:tup:
While the city of Portland continues protracted negotiations to establish a year-round public market, developers Jon Kellogg and Thad Fisco are swiftly creating a marketplace for food lovers. In March they will complete the final phase of construction at the intersection of North Williams Avenue and Failing Street.

It is a nice bit of synergy that their project, christened The Hub, occupies the bones of the old Oregon Food Bank storehouse. When the drywall is up and the dust clears, The Hub will comprise 20 units and nearly 30,000 square feet, linking the existing half-block that includes the vegan-centric Nutshell restaurant and Yoga Shala with a second Ristretto Roasters coffee shop and Lincoln, a restaurant helmed by esteemed Portland caterer Jenn Louis.

Kellogg and Fisco, both 42, formed Adaptive Development Co. six years ago, setting out to salvage and reuse faltering buildings in close-in Portland. "We try to buy buildings in neighborhoods we can still afford so we can deliver the spaces at a fair rent," says Kellogg, who makes it a point to lease to local, independent entrepreneurs. The success of Pix and 5th Quadrant -- across the street in one of their rehabbed buildings -- coupled with growing momentum along the North Williams and Vancouver arterials encouraged the developers to take on the massive Hub job.
"It's an underserved neighborhood with no major grocery store," Kellogg says. "We want to create a model of urban, daily needs shopping -- a European-style marketplace that people can walk to."

Adaptive Development, currently in talks with several potential tenants, would like to sign food artisans and retailers such as a pasta maker, cheese shop, charcuterie and bakery, along with wellness-oriented businesses. (In addition to Lincoln and Ristretto, confirmed tenants include a naturopathic veterinary clinic and florist.)

Lincoln, an 80-seat eatery expected to open in summer or fall, should serve as a solid anchor. It is the first restaurant from Jenn Louis and her husband, David Welch, a restaurant-service veteran and freelance journalist. Lincoln will dish up "modern American food" akin to the simple, clean-flavored cooking Louis has honed at her 8-year-old Culinary Artistry catering, which will move over to The Hub.

"I'm not going out to reinvent anything, I just want to cook the kind of food I like to eat," Louis says. "Of course it will be seasonal because there's no other way to do it. We'll braise in the winter and grill in the summer and make great flatbreads and fritters of all sorts."

Louis, 36, and Welch, 34, gravitated to The Hub because of its convenient location and arched barrel roof, which reveals handsome original woodwork. The owners will play up the lodge aesthetic with a fireplace and a name that pays tribute to hardworking rural America and our principled 16th president.

[PDX City-State]

This ain't the public market.

[IHEARTPDX]

This ain't the public market.
I know it's not THE public market, or a publicly owned market but it's concept and design is similar to a public/permanent market. I think it's a great idea and we could use a few of these across the city.

[sopdx]

I agree. It's a cool concept and I applaud those folks for taking the initiative.

[PDX City-State]

I totally agree. This is a great thing.