[jfsatlbldr]

The skies were somewhat overcast so these are not quite up to standard but will improve later;
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/jfsatlbldr/Twelve%20Centennial%20Park/02-23-07034.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/jfsatlbldr/Twelve%20Centennial%20Park/02-23-07039.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/jfsatlbldr/Twelve%20Centennial%20Park/02-23-07041.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/jfsatlbldr/Twelve%20Centennial%20Park/02-23-07054.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/jfsatlbldr/Twelve%20Centennial%20Park/02-23-07079.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/jfsatlbldr/Twelve%20Centennial%20Park/02-23-07085.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/jfsatlbldr/Twelve%20Centennial%20Park/02-23-07051.jpg

[Trae]

Love those photos Joe. Traffic looks horrible on the connector.

[Andrea]

Traffic looks horrible on the connector.

Yeah, and notice how most of it has nothing to do with downtown Atlanta. The connector is primarily an inter-suburban freeway that just happens be routed right through the middle of the city.

:(

I love these photos, too -- fantastic job as always, Joe.

[Chris Creech]

Great Pics, nice how when you get just a little bit off that Peachtree Spine the views really open up. Some of those views seem relatively protected from future development too, which should be a big selling point.

I know there's lots of things still to break ground, they remind me though just how much that area is still just surface parking lots.

And also...

I still think this big chunk of land below represents a prime development parcel. It can't be that hard to build over a two lane express ramp. That one day is going to be a key piece of tying this area together and covering the connector.

Also, I'd read where Atlanta was getting rid of most of the old Senior high rises, except the smallest ones (like the one on 10th in Midtown). I wonder if that means the old Portman designed tower in the pic below here (Upper left) is going? I wonder if that would be convertable or be torn down? I think that was one of his very first buildings - even before Peachtree Center, and after Avondale Mall.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/jfsatlbldr/Twelve%20Centennial%20Park/02-23-07051.jpg

[trainiac]

Yeah, and notice how most of it has nothing to do with downtown Atlanta. The connector is primarily an inter-suburban freeway that just happens be routed right through the middle of the city.

Ah, yes. The great car sewer

I love these photos, too -- fantastic job as always, Joe.

Yes, thanks! Doesn't look quite as scary as the Terminus shots a few weeks ago. If I was buying at Twelve, I'm not even sure which side I'd want, they all have pretty amazing views. That would be some penthouse.

Nice to see Polaris look so prominent. Anybody heard anything about it lately? It's been empty for a couple of years now I think.

[foxmccleod]

Great Pics, nice how when you get just a little bit off that Peachtree Spine the views really open up. Some of those views seem relatively protected from future development too, which should be a big selling point.

I know there's lots of things still to break ground, they remind me though just how much that area is still just surface parking lots.

And also...

I still think this big chunk of land below represents a prime development parcel. It can't be that hard to build over a two lane express ramp. That one day is going to be a key piece of tying this area together and covering the connector.

Also, I'd read where Atlanta was getting rid of most of the old Senior high rises, except the smallest ones (like the one on 10th in Midtown). I wonder if that means the old Portman designed tower in the pic below here (Upper left) is going? I wonder if that would be convertable or be torn down? I think that was one of his very first buildings - even before Peachtree Center, and after Avondale Mall.


There is a design floating around to remove the onramp by rerouting the traffic around to Ivan Allen, accessing the ramp from there, which would open virtually the entire parcel.

I also believe the article stated that both high-rises would come down on Centennial Olympic Drive, the one in the photo and the one at North Ave.

[sprtsluvr8]

Yeah, and notice how most of it has nothing to do with downtown Atlanta. The connector is primarily an inter-suburban freeway that just happens be routed right through the middle of the city.

:(

I love these photos, too -- fantastic job as always, Joe.


I'm wondering how you can tell that most of the traffic has nothing to do with downtown? In the southbound lanes they are just approaching the edge of downtown (and probably the edge of sanity) and northbound we can't really see where those people entered the connector. I for one use the connector a lot...admittedly at off peak hours, God willing. I live at one end of it, getting on at Langford Pkwy, and have friends and destinations at the other end in Midtown. I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I would estimate that a large number of cars on the connector are heading for/leaving downtown and Midtown locations...and others are traveling from one in-town area to another.

[Andrea]

Also, I'd read where Atlanta was getting rid of most of the old Senior high rises, except the smallest ones (like the one on 10th in Midtown). I wonder if that means the old Portman designed tower in the pic below here (Upper left) is going? I wonder if that would be convertable or be torn down? I think that was one of his very first buildings - even before Peachtree Center, and after Avondale Mall.

I think he'd started on Peachtree Center some years before that. The Mart was built in 1960, I believe, and the first office towers and the Hyatt Regency went up in the mid-60s.

I never realized that Portman designed Avondale/Columbia Mall. It was also mid-60s and was rather upscale when it opened. Portman gets associated with so many things in Atlanta which he did not do (the Five Points MARTA station, efforts to tear down the Fox, etc.) that it's sometimes hard to tell.

[(four 0 four)]

Thanks Joe! Great photos, as usual.:worship:

[Terminus]

Great Pics, nice how when you get just a little bit off that Peachtree Spine the views really open up. Some of those views seem relatively protected from future development too, which should be a big selling point.

I know there's lots of things still to break ground, they remind me though just how much that area is still just surface parking lots.

And also...

I still think this big chunk of land below represents a prime development parcel. It can't be that hard to build over a two lane express ramp. That one day is going to be a key piece of tying this area together and covering the connector.

Also, I'd read where Atlanta was getting rid of most of the old Senior high rises, except the smallest ones (like the one on 10th in Midtown). I wonder if that means the old Portman designed tower in the pic below here (Upper left) is going? I wonder if that would be convertable or be torn down? I think that was one of his very first buildings - even before Peachtree Center, and after Avondale Mall.

This area is about to be completely redesigned, if I recall correctly.

Some friends and I downtown have thought about contacting GDOT about seeing if they'd let us raise money to fence off a portion of this unbuilt right-of-way (on a part where you don't have to cross a ramp) to build a neighborhood garden.

[SteveD]

... If I was buying at Twelve, I'm not even sure which side I'd want, they all have pretty amazing views...

True, but remember, the eventual north tower will completely block what is shown in the third pic, so for that view, you'd want to procure a unit in the north tower...the converse being true for south-viewing units in the eventual north tower...

Great set Joe!

[SteveD]

There is a design floating around to remove the onramp by rerouting the traffic around to Ivan Allen, accessing the ramp from there, which would open virtually the entire parcel.

I love that idea. I wonder though if the folks at Barry and Allen Plaza would try to mount any opposition to it, since that would make the W Hotel and residences much less visible to southward traffic on the connector, and block north views.

[Fiorenza]

This was taken 2/2/2007 at 11.30

http://www.taxangle.com/images/12cp.jpg

[Atlriser]

Love it love it love it! Thanks for the great pics yet again!

G-DOT's figures show over 50% of the traffic on the connector is pass thru. Why do people keep arguing about this fact on the forum? During non rush hour times that figure approaches 75% of traffic. If you drive the connector daily and nost just rush hour, you'd see the number of out of state tags and quickly realize the volume that is simply passing through the state north or south.

Consider that 75 and 95 are 2 of the most travelled north south interstates in the entire country from Florida all the way to Canada and the growth along 85 outside the metro area is making this route explode with traffic as well. Connect 75 and 85 through a major urban area and you see the results in Atlanta on the connector.

Try 95 along the GA coast and you see the pure volume load as well outside of a metro area. Plus remember the mountains north of here block traffic moving east to west so you must pass south to Atlanta then back north thus creating a strain on 285 to deal with this volume.

[oldpainless]

Yeah, and notice how most of it has nothing to do with downtown Atlanta. The connector is primarily an inter-suburban freeway that just happens be routed right through the middle of the city.
please... for once will you set aside your knee-jerk suburban-hatred for one moment and realize that downtown's success is largely dependent on its excellent transportation access... :rolleyes:

[Andrea]

please... for once will you set aside your knee-jerk suburban-hatred for one moment and realize that downtown's success is largely dependent on its excellent transportation access... :rolleyes:

Er, I don't hate the suburbs. That's where 90% of the people in metro Atlanta live, and it could certainly be argued that in many ways they offer a better quality of life than the city.

But that's an entirely different issue from running suburban freeways through the middle of the city. Downtown Atlanta's success is not dependent upon vast numbers of workers commuting into the central city by automobile. Probably about 10% of metro area jobs are in downtown, and many of the people who hold those jobs already live in town and don't need the connector. Many take public transit. Some walk. Most take the surface streets. I worked in the heart of downtown for 10 years and never once needed the connector to get to or from work, and that was true of most people in our company.

The connector as it exists has essentially become a suburban interchange. If you don't believe me, check the traffic counts, or simply drive it and you'll see that the vast majority of this river of vehicles is merely passing through. If you're going northbound, for instance, the number of vehicles exiting into downtown is a relative trickle, and of course once you get past 5th Street you literally can't get off until you reach Buckhead.

My point is that we'd be far better off with an upgraded network of surface streets and urban boulevards in the cntral urban core. Freeways should be located in the suburbs where their burden will rest on the neighborhoods who prefer to use them.

[Pillsbury Doughboy]

I love the photos!!! Thanks for sharing them.

I agree with Andrea. In my experiences with downtown during rush hour, I've always been amazed at how well the traffic moves on the surface streets. Once you get on the Connector, however, it's a giant gridlock. It does seem to me (as an outsider) that a good chunk of the Connector traffic has little to do with downtown or midtown and more to do with people simply driving through.

[sabino86]

Love how the south-facing units have a great view of what I call the "Big Four" (SunTrust, 191, Georgia-Pacific, and of course, the Westin Peachtree Plaza) :cheers:

The other views are cool too... ;)

[dante2308]

This argument has been done and done again. Andrea truly believes that the connector should be ripped out of the ground and replaced by a field of daisies. Most people see that connectivity is an impetus for growth, but Andrea feels that ripping out connectivity will make a place thrive. Now thats (her?) right, but at least the GTOD isn't about to rip out a main artery like it was a sixth toe on a foot or an appendix.

Secondly, surface streets leading to the connector are jammed during the evening rush at nearly every entrance point all the way up and down the length. That picture of the North Avenue/Spring Street entrance shows cars basically trying to get on the connector. I know how traffic is. I literally live in that picture. The connector itself seems pretty clear actually. Not a jam, and I know you can't see motion in that picture, but it seems to be moving steadily.

Thridly, believe it or not, commuters do exist as well as people trying to get from point to point inside the city. Without the highways system, no one in their right mind would try to go downtown from the cozy suburbs for any reason other than critical need. Businesses would catch on and relocate even more to the cozy suburbs. Few people would come down for entertainment and thus that too would start to leave. Welcome to Atlanta's shell. No connector and no one but die hards putting up with the thirty mile drive only to get lost on surface streets no one understands.

[Andrea]

This argument has been done and done again. Andrea truly believes that the connector should be ripped out of the ground and replaced by a field of daisies.

Sorry, dante, but you don't get to fabricate my views. I've never said any such thing.

You may want to fact-check your own arguments, by the way.

[gttx]

Without the highways system, no one in their right mind would try to go downtown from the cozy suburbs for any reason other than critical need. Businesses would catch on and relocate even more to the cozy suburbs. Few people would come down for entertainment and thus that too would start to leave. Welcome to Atlanta's shell. No connector and no one but die hards putting up with the thirty mile drive only to get lost on surface streets no one understands.

Good point. There was no city at all until they put 75/85 in. :koko:

[RobMidtowner]

Secondly, surface streets leading to the connector are jammed during the evening rush at nearly every entrance point all the way up and down the length. That picture of the North Avenue/Spring Street entrance shows cars basically trying to get on the connector. I know how traffic is. I literally live in that picture. The connector itself seems pretty clear actually. Not a jam, and I know you can't see motion in that picture, but it seems to be moving steadily.

The surface streets leading to the connector are jammed because of spillback from the interstate (i.e. The traffic you see is just a big queue waiting to get on the interstate). But there are some surface streets not leading to the connector that back up during rush hour too (14th & 10th Streets). This is because of poor east-west connectivity in Midtown (i.e. All traffic going east and west is funneled onto these streets because there's no other adequate east-west corridors). I think what Andrea is talking about (and correct me if I'm wrong) is an upgraded network of streets that provides more connectivity, improved traffic flow, etc. while eliminating a "city bypass" cutting through the city. Personally, I think we should upgrade the surface streets and cover the connector with parks.

[mayhem]

I prefer 80 story high rises over the connector with GT developed air filtration systems on top of the connector, but I'll work with some parks too :haha:

I think one problem is, even if we had connectivity over the connector, how much good could it really do with GT across the way? The street grid falls apart over there and I doubt we'll see Kappa Delta Boner and the likes losing their front yard football fields ever, much less soon. :haha:

[Tombstoner]

This is because of poor east-west connectivity in Midtown (i.e. All traffic going east and west is funneled onto these streets because there's no other adequate east-west corridors). I think what Andrea is talking about (and correct me if I'm wrong) is an upgraded network of streets that provides more connectivity, improved traffic flow, etc. while eliminating a "city bypass" cutting through the city. Personally, I think we should upgrade the surface streets and cover the connector with parks.

I absolutely agree in theory,* but when it gets right down to it I don't think there's a lot that can be done to "open up" surface street arteries. I wish there were, but Ponce, Clairmont, DeKalb Ave., Cheshire Bridge, Briarcliff, Piedmont, etc. are what they are (in some cases there might be a little wiggle room). They ain't expanding anytime soon.

*assuming you mean "cover" the Connector a la 5th Street Bridge vs. "bury" it a la Troy...

[Atlriser]

Living in town now since 1999, I'd say the majority of the back ups are a result of the connector being overcrowded on many of the streets mentioned above...due to the amount of traffic passing through Atlanta.....you leave your list of streets mentioned and you can readily zip around Atlanta easily.

I also think you're arguments that the downtown would be a shell without the connector and high-rises would move to the suburbs even more is not valid. MOST major cities actually don't have major interstates passing through the core of them. Atlanta is pretty unique in that respect which actually I'm kind of fond of even though I hate it too. No matter how good a public transportation system we develop we are always going to have congestion....go figure?

Kind of like an ant hill, you create density....you create congestion so there isn't a solution to it but the GDOT has actually begun considering the idea of removing the connector downtown believe it or not and has provided funding to Ga Tech Grad students to study just that along with ways of reconnecting the city which was destroyed by building the connector.

Granted that'd be stupid and not likely at all to happen ever, but don't say that GDOT hasn't come to realize that the connector is not the best idea and really needs some new ideas to resolve the problems it has brought to the core downtown of the metro area.

[Atlriser]

I'm sorry the idea of covering the connector with parks is great but I so love to also drive the connector just to zoom by and see the highrises when I can so I'd miss it as crazy as that sounds.

BTW, ya'll remember GDOT's projections regarding the interstates last year for 2020. The connector would be rush hour conditions over 16 hours of the day. I love it though because I-85 through Gwinett would be rush hour conditions 22 hours out of the day! Hah! Gwinett's great take that! JK!

[dante2308]

Sorry, dante, but you don't get to fabricate my views. I've never said any such thing.

You may want to fact-check your own arguments, by the way.

Just being facetious....

Good point. There was no city at all until they put 75/85 in.

Before 75/85, Atlanta wasn't a metropolis, you have to see that much. I don't think the connector should be destroyed, but I would suggest covering it.

The street scape is broken up by GT on the other side of Midtown anyhow.

[RobMidtowner]

The street scape is broken up by GT on the other side of Midtown anyhow.

Well GT doesn't want anybody driving through its campus anyway, I believe it's in the Master Plan to not allow cars on campus at some point.

[Atlriser]

GT has pretty much removed all through streets already with the exception of the 5th street bridge over to Northside/Marietta. It's been made so through traffic wouldn't want to use it much anyway though with speed bump and raised sidewalks. The master plan has put decks all around the perimeter and removed most of the internal streets turning them into wide bricked sidewalks with planters and trees down them. The idea is the same that Atlanta is finally embracing intown. Walking is so much better and enjoyable then riding in a car.

[CityFan]

BTW, ya'll remember GDOT's projections regarding the interstates last year for 2020. The connector would be rush hour conditions over 16 hours of the day. I love it though because I-85 through Gwinett would be rush hour conditions 22 hours out of the day! Hah! Gwinett's great take that! JK!
No worry. By then, mass transit will have been in place to easy congestion. Right now we can get by without mass transit system. We have tendency not to take action until problems get out of control. Plus if there is no supreme power, things like major infrustructure won't get done. This is the drawback of democracy. When everybody thinks his own way, how can we gain synergy needed to accomplish our goal?

[CityFan]

Before 75/85, Atlanta wasn't a metropolis, you have to see that much. I don't think the connector should be destroyed, but I would suggest covering it.

The street scape is broken up by GT on the other side of Midtown anyhow.
I wouldn't suggest covering it. We should use much needed funds for much needed projects, such as improving mass transit system. Covering the connector is the last thing I would think of. There is so much to be done in Atlanta and surrounding area in order to improve the quality of our life and turn the area into world class attraction. BTW, if there was no connector, there wouldn't be today's Atlanta. It's very obvious. Atlanta doesn't have natural attraction, like water front. Just like no railway or airport hub, no Atlanta. It could be a tiny dot on the map.

[Andrea]

BTW, if there was no connector, there wouldn't be today's Atlanta.

That's for sure. It became the No. 1 escape route from the city and one of the major facilitators of sprawl. I'm not saying sprawl is bad and I realize that over 90% of the people who live here prefer it. I'm just noting the critical role that the connector played in that process.

[RobMidtowner]

I wouldn't suggest covering it. We should use much needed funds for much needed projects, such as improving mass transit system.But you just said in your previous post that we can get by without mass transit?!?!:koko:
Right now we can get by without mass transit system.

You may not need mass transit but half a million people per day do on average so how can you say that "we can get by without it"???

[CityFan]

But you just said in your previous post that we can get by without mass transit?!?!:koko:


You may not need mass transit but half a million people per day do on average so how can you say that "we can get by without it"???
The reason I was saying that is because we are not focusing on the same thing. All politics are just big talkers and don't get actual results to fix the problems. Luckly people still can afford driving around. In this sense we can get by with exisiting system. Often in the evenings I walk around MARTA stations and rarely see any one either enter or exit there. I compare the situation to other major cities, and conclusion is black and white. Here in Atlanta we are still in driving era. Mass transit system needed mostly is in rush hours, IMO. It's utilization is not that great under that circumstances.

[Atlriser]

Well, in order to be useful to those living intown during nonrush hours you need a system that actually gets you places unlike the system we have now that is just a backbone but with no ribs that support intown living/users during the evening.

I'd actually probably venture to Buckhead often to shop and such if I could easily get there on Marta. However, living in Grant Park it's a hassle to get to Marta to ride to Lenox. If a streetcar or the beltline were in place, I'd readily hop on it to a Marta station either at MLK or wherever it connected to Marta and take up to Lenox or even to visit friends that live around 10th street, but alas I rarely go into Buckhead now because I refuse to deal with the traffic of the area. Living in town has made me lazy about venturing far from home in the car eventhough the traffic is so much less then when I lived OTP. In the burbs I'd readily drive 10 or 15 miles to a mall or anywhere to shop. but not now. After visiting cities that do have intown transit which I throughly enjoyed using, I'd love seeing Atlanta develop a true useable network.

[dante2308]

That's for sure. It became the No. 1 escape route from the city and one of the major facilitators of sprawl. I'm not saying sprawl is bad and I realize that over 90% of the people who live here prefer it. I'm just noting the critical role that the connector played in that process.

That reasonable. Remember the time period we are talking about. Sprawl didn't just come with the highway, it came with the times. The highways didn't force people to move outside the city, it just allowed them to.

If it makes a difference, in inner city is coming back at a steady rate. Personally, I would prefer a 5+ million sprawling metro to a 1 million person suburb free city and personally, the price to live in places like that are way out of my range as a college student. I'm a sucker for a big house and open spaces so the idea of an apartment building or a townhouse does not suit me.

Mass transit is nice, but you can't force it down people's throats. Apparently the Beltline is not going to fly, so apparently we shouldn't force it no matter how much it will do for the neglected parts of the core. It is a shame, but perhaps soon, there will be a larger percentage of people who are pro mass transit. Education is key. George Mason is not.

[Atlriser]

From where did this 'the Beltline is not going to fly' descend upon us?? I'm sorry but there are some very serious plans already drawn up with plenty of neighborhood meetings already being held discussing the overlay zoning and citywide standards are being written. GA Tech has graduate students preparing citywide zoning maps and street mappings for each neighborhood and sections of the beltline which have already been completed and in the hands of engineers and city reviewers for corrections and such. All this is already happening and funds are already in place and some acreage purchased in areas to create pocket parks to ensure many sections are built and some of the ground work is beginning over the next few months in areas of the city.

The neglected core has already begun to be reborn without the Beltline. The density of these new developments meets or exceeds the base amount as originally planned for transit to be successful along the beltline route so nothing is being forced onto the populace and the citizens of the city seem thrilled about transit overall IMO and every meeting i've attended regarding the beltline.

[dante2308]

Thats good then. I would like to see the Beltline thrive of course, though I wouldn't see myself using it more than once or twice a year.

[Atlriser]

Well I'm one who would use it 1 or 2 times a week so I'm one of the target users probably considering i live a couple blocks from one of the proposed stations and hopefully one of the earliest to be built as things are moving right now for the section I live on in Grant Park.