[staplesla]

http://www.sdvintagetrolley.com/

Any clue as to when the Trolley/Silver Line is to start? It was supposed to start in 2008.

[cata77]

Any clue as to when the Trolley/Silver Line is to start? It was supposed to start in 2008.

no clue, but it got my attention

[bmfarley]

no clue, but it got my attention

Volunteers are responsible for rehabing the cars. I believe they only have two cars. Maybe three. When done, it will operate in the clockwise direction only and only during off peak times... lunch and weekends.

[SDCAL]

Where are you finding that? I just looked on their website and the lowest is at $199.

You know, you sure offer criticism on anything and everything in this thread, or development in general. Is there not one good thing going on right now that is financially feasible, in your humble opinion? Or should everything just stop and wait for recovery?

this person is just anti-development; if you look back, even before the economy went sour it was all doomsday and negative opinions then too. They don't feel building should stop because of a bad economy, they think it should just stop. And never start again.

[sandiegodweller]

this person is just anti-development; if you look back, even before the economy went sour it was all doomsday and negative opinions then too. They don't feel building should stop because of a bad economy, they think it should just stop. And never start again.

Guess what, the economy was never good. The US doesn't produce anything to sell. We are the worlds biggest money brokers; we borrow money and re-lend it. Do you two read the news? The whole "house of cards" was built upon false incomes, false demand, easy entitlements, cheap money, etc.

Anti-development? I am in the business. That is how I know about a lot of these white elephant projects. Looking back over the past two years, I have been pretty accurate with my observations/predictions.

Is there a new Wal-Mart market on J Street yet? No

Did CosmoSquare go BK? Yes. Did it get built? No

Is Pointe of View a huge abortion? Yes

I am all for responsible and smart development. I am not in favor of speculative overbuilding for the sake of building (with phantom demand).

[voice of reason]

Most people on this forum are like children who think that they are playing with toy models of buildings. They say, 'this one would look way cool over there, put a light rail over here, lets move the airport-not a problem'.

They have no concept of taxes, budgets, consumer demand or feasability. The city should be designed to their whims and if you point out reality, then you are just a curmudgeon in their eyes.

[dl3000]

Most people on this forum are like children who think that they are playing with toy models of buildings. They say, 'this one would look way cool over there, put a light rail over here, lets move the airport-not a problem'.

They have no concept of taxes, budgets, consumer demand or feasability. The city should be designed to their whims and if you point out reality, then you are just a curmudgeon in their eyes.

Ah but many do know I am sure. The problem is that you can't please everyone, especially without much money.

[CoastersBolts]

Speaking of hotels going under like The W. I have a friend who works at the Ivy, which as we all know was the big up and coming botique which offered such things as stripper poles in certain rooms among other things. Let us not forget the trendy, "scenester", upscale club Envy. Well, the Ivy is suffering big time in the recession and business is not faring too well by any means. My friend has had to take a big pay cut already and is worried he may lose his job as several people have been laid off. The layoffs apparently are not finished yet, either.

Through the issues at The W and now the Ivy, it's quite apparent the economy is now purging the hotel industry, especially here in San Diego.

[Filambata]

Amen to that!! :tup:

Most people on this forum are like children who think that they are playing with toy models of buildings. They say, 'this one would look way cool over there, put a light rail over here, lets move the airport-not a problem'.

They have no concept of taxes, budgets, consumer demand or feasability. The city should be designed to their whims and if you point out reality, then you are just a curmudgeon in their eyes.

[kpexpress]

Amen to that!! :tup:

I see nothing wrong with discussing the conceptual possibilities of the city.

[dl3000]

I see nothing wrong with discussing the conceptual possibilities of the city.

Yeah its not like we have any political power anyway.

[mongoXZ]

Looks like the vision impaired whiners have infiltrated this thread.

[SDCAL]

Looks like the vision impaired whiners have infiltrated this thread.


exactly

sometimes the envelope needs to be pushed and the impossible needs to be considered. It won't always come to fruition, in fact most times it won't, but San Diego is lacking vision, creativity and is in the mindset of ultra-conservative mediocrity

Living here about 9 years I had hope, as the great geographical location has tremendous potential, but now I have given up because of attitudes like the ones above.

I am actually researching moving, I've had enough of the backwards morons who make decisions here

[sandiegodweller]

Maybe you could move to Dubai. They seem to have big dreams and unlimted economic resources.

www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html

[Marina_Guy]

exactly

sometimes the envelope needs to be pushed and the impossible needs to be considered. It won't always come to fruition, in fact most times it won't, but San Diego is lacking vision, creativity and is in the mindset of ultra-conservative mediocrity

Living here about 9 years I had hope, as the great geographical location has tremendous potential, but now I have given up because of attitudes like the ones above.

I am actually researching moving, I've had enough of the backwards morons who make decisions here

Thoughts on what cities you are considering?? We have been considering a move too for the same reasons you state. San Diego has so much potential.

[tdavis]

Thoughts on what cities you are considering?? We have been considering a move too for the same reasons you state. San Diego has so much potential.

How weird that this is being discussed. My wife and I are going to Austin, TX this weekend to look at housing and possibly move. We've gotten tired of the lack of progress here and the economic problems with the state. My office is moving their headquarters from the Sorrento Valley area to Round Rock, TX (suburb of Austin) in 3 months.

[Marina_Guy]

How weird that this is being discussed. My wife and I are going to Austin, TX this weekend to look at housing and possibly move. We've gotten tired of the lack of progress here and the economic problems with the state. My office is moving their headquarters from the Sorrento Valley area to Round Rock, TX (suburb of Austin) in 3 months.

I wasnt too impressed by Austin. But, at least, the ground floor of their new residential buildings have really nice retail instead of orange and white for lease signs... :)

Portland and San Francisco are on my list.

[tdavis]

I wasnt too impressed by Austin. But, at least, the ground floor of their new residential buildings have really nice retail instead of orange and white for lease signs... :)

Portland and San Francisco are on my list.

Well the company will pay to relocate us there. And those that don't move from SD will be terminated. Not sure that I want to stay and try to find a job in this market.

[Viva-city]

Any clue as to when the Trolley/Silver Line is to start? It was supposed to start in 2008.

San Diego Vintage Trolley are possibility delayed due to a lack of funds. The organization came before CCDC quite some time ago requesting funds. The request was denied.

[eburress]

How weird that this is being discussed. My wife and I are going to Austin, TX this weekend to look at housing and possibly move. We've gotten tired of the lack of progress here and the economic problems with the state. My office is moving their headquarters from the Sorrento Valley area to Round Rock, TX (suburb of Austin) in 3 months.

California makes it VERY difficult for businesses to do business in California. The state increases taxes, companies leave, the tax base shrinks, and then the state increases taxes to make up the lost money, further exacerbating the situation. It's no wonder that companies are leaving for Texas in droves.

BTW, Austin is a great town and is the most San Diego-like city in Texas. You'll like it...just try to live in the west part of the city. :)

[staplesla]

One calls it “brilliant.” A second sees it as a way to expand educational opportunities. A third views it as a last ditch-effort at saving a project headed for failure.

On Tuesday, June 23, members of the San Diego school board will take up a controversial plan to spend $20 million of district money to help build a long-delayed downtown library.

The proposal calls for the San Diego Unified School District to use money from Proposition S — a $2.1-billion voter-approved measure to improve and build public schools — for a charter high school on two floors of a nine-story library planned for city-owned land near Petco Park.

The $20 million would fund part of the library's construction cost and could be critical in keeping plans for the iconic structure afloat.

The school district would lease the sixth and seventh floors at Park Boulevard and J Street for 40 years under the deal. The district could back out of the deal if construction costs exceeded what's been budgeted or officials are unable to secure full funding, among other reasons.

The San Diego City Council's Rules Committee is expected to address the project the day after the school board. The council discussed the project in closed session Tuesday morning, but no action was taken, said Gina Coburn, spokeswoman for the City Attorney's Office.

Schools Superintendent Terry Grier said Tuesday that he thinks there's a “good chance” the school board will approve the project.

“It's a brilliant opportunity for our students,” said school board member Katherine Nakamura.

“I support the concept, and I support it really for one primary reason,” said Trustee Richard Barrera. “The options for high school students downtown are limited.”

San Diego High School is the only comprehensive high school campus in the area, but it has room for just 2,900 students, Barrera said. Yet there are 5,000 students living within the school's enrollment boundary.

But longtime trustee John de Beck reiterated his opposition to the plan yesterday. “It's a last-minute attempt at saving the library,” he said.

School board President Shelia Jackson and trustee John Evans could not be reached for comment.

Backers of the library say it will cost $185 million to build, a price that critics say is vastly understated. Downtown redevelopment dollars would provide $80 million, a state grant covers $20 million and a nonprofit foundation has raised $35 million, with more, it says, on its way.

One sticking point earlier in the planning was that adding a school to the library would require the building to comply with the state's Field Act -- long-standing state law intended to ensure that public schools are built earthquake-safe. Staff reports say a charter school doesn't have to comply with the Field Act, but would have to comply with state building code.

The city must show a viable financing plan by July 1 to keep the stategrant.

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jun/18/bn18library112441/?dsq=11134913#comment-11134913

[tdavis]

Thought this was interesting. The Dallas fed chief said that Texas is set to steal jobs from CA and elsewhere because of the lower taxes, and lower cost of doing business. My company's last week in San Diego will be next week. :(

June 1st our corporate headquarters is moving to Austin.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/DN-GoneToTexas_18bus.ART.State.Edition1.420210d.html

[staplesla]

Two years after saying no to playing in Oceanside, the San Diego Chargers are again contemplating a new stadium there, this time at the site of a defunct drive-in theater on State Route 76.

A developer and a team spokesman stressed that it is very early in their discussions and an Oceanside councilman called the prospect highly unlikely, but the talks mark yet another attempt to keep the Chargers from bolting town.

An executive with Georgia-based Thomas Enterprises, which has approval to build 950,000 square feet of commercial space on the 90-acre site where the Valley Drive-In theater once showed flicks, broached the idea of putting a stadium there with Chargers spokesman Mark Fabiani six weeks ago.

Since then, Fabiani has shot down another developer's proposal to build a new stadium close to the existing Qualcomm Stadium in Mission Valley, and attended a Chula Vista meeting where city officials talked of their attempt to lure the team to their bayfront.

The Chula Vista option is complicated by a massive power plant on the site that the state plans to operate for some time. Yesterday, Fabiani said that possibility isn't very encouraging.

A North County site would be closer to untapped football fan markets in Los Angeles and Orange County, but Fabiani acknowledged the Oceanside property has issues as well.

The economy must rebound to support ancillary development of retail shops, hotels, residences and office space to support a stadium; there is little public transportation to the site; and it is close to Oceanside Municipal Airport.

There have been no financial studies or maps made of the site, said Mel Kuhnel, Thomas Enterprises' vice president of operations for the West Coast.

Kuhnel said meetings between his boss, Stan Thomas, and Chargers president Dean Spanos – an element of any serious discussion – would not occur this early in the process. Fabiani said he hopes that will happen next month.

“It involves a very credible development partner, which is good,” he said. “But it's in the very earliest stages, which means I would advise people if they're interested, it's something they should follow, but it's not something they should pin their hopes on at this point.”

Kuhnel has met with Fabiani twice in the last six weeks. Last week, he sat down individually with council members, including Oceanside Councilman Jerome Kern and Mayor Jim Wood, to talk Chargers and explain how the economy has hindered plans to break ground on the shopping center.

Wood said he was surprised Oceanside is back in the mix, two years after the Chargers said a stadium didn't pencil out at the Center City Golf Course. He said there would be a lot of hurdles for this new plan.

The city might soon lock in a 50-year lease extension for the airport, giving the Federal Aviation Administration a big say in nearby development. A stadium would require at least 20 acres and be up to 200 feet tall.

“I like the idea of the Chargers coming to North County, but it would be real tough to find a place for them here,” Kern said.

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jun/18/bn18chargers-eye-oside/?metro

[SDCAL]

Thoughts on what cities you are considering?? We have been considering a move too for the same reasons you state. San Diego has so much potential.

Well, I work in biotech and it's pretty clustered in a few areas, SD, SF and the northeast mainly

I am looking at SF. In the past 5 years or so, it seems like SF's pharmaceutical/biotech industry has been expanding whereas SD's had been declining. ("Biotech Beach" vs "Biotech Bay")

I like everything about SF better than SD except the weather

If SF were located where SD is it would be almost perfect :)

[SDCAL]

Maybe you could move to Dubai. They seem to have big dreams and unlimted economic resources.

www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html

Creativity does not need huge money supplies or grandiose design, and people who don't understand this seem to make a large portion of the development community here

I'm not just looking for towering mega-structures, but original smaller projects to fill in the gaps

I think it's just the very conservative nature of the city, people are happy just being mediocre and drab and there is not really a sense of community or interactiveness when it comes to the city centre

I have never seen a city where civic projects are frowned upon as much as here

[Marina_Guy]

Well, I work in biotech and it's pretty clustered in a few areas, SD, SF and the northeast mainly

I am looking at SF. In the past 5 years or so, it seems like SF's pharmaceutical/biotech industry has been expanding whereas SD's had been declining. ("Biotech Beach" vs "Biotech Bay")

I like everything about SF better than SD except the weather

If SF were located where SD is it would be almost perfect :)

I would agree, including the Mayor / Future Gov. Cool airport, BART, new public buildings, neighborhoods with retail... Wages are better in SF too. They still have wacky NIMBYs up there too. They have some WACKY guy that files a lawsuit every time a bike lane is proposed because he has some crazy theory that bikes contribute to global warming!

10 degrees warmer on average would make it an easy choice :)

[Crackertastik]

Well, I work in biotech and it's pretty clustered in a few areas, SD, SF and the northeast mainly

I am looking at SF. In the past 5 years or so, it seems like SF's pharmaceutical/biotech industry has been expanding whereas SD's had been declining. ("Biotech Beach" vs "Biotech Bay")

I like everything about SF better than SD except the weather

If SF were located where SD is it would be almost perfect :)

I think if you could blend any two cities in the world, youd be hard pressed to beat out San Frandiego. I dare poeple to try actually.

You'd have all the glory of the city of san fran, with the perfect weather of san diego and the beaches of san diego and coastline. Unbeatable.

[ShekelPop]

I think it's just the very conservative nature of the city, people are happy just being mediocre and drab and there is not really a sense of community or interactiveness when it comes to the city centre

I have never seen a city where civic projects are frowned upon as much as here
If you look at the amount of street festivals, downtown events, and outdoor concerts, I'd say San Diego, in terms of variety of events and number of attendees, far outpaces many of its California counterparts. This demonstrates people are in touch with the city and the different neighborhoods. If you're statement is based on the perception that people frown upon city-funded buildings or other improvements, I also think its tough to gauge what people actually feel since a lot of the current sentiment stems from the fact that San Diego, like many other CA cities, has experienced serious cash flow problems that make even the most civic-minded resident hesitant to support the output of city cash for a marginally beneficial public improvement.

I also think we can't draw conclusions about how people feel simply because they don't want to fund a new stadium for the Chargers (for example). If you look at Petco or the revival of downtown over the past 20 years, you'd be hard pressed to explain to how all of this took place if the majority of people in San Diego did not politically support these types of developments. Keep in mind, this is a forum where people are almost always pro development, and even on here, when plans came out for the convention center expansion, people scoffed at the idea. I think this further shows current public sentiment stems from more than just people in san diego being drab and anti-development but from frustrations that stem from other sources.

[staplesla]

If you look at the amount of street festivals, downtown events, and outdoor concerts, I'd say San Diego, in terms of variety of events and number of attendees, far outpaces many of its California counterparts. This demonstrates people are in touch with the city and the different neighborhoods. If you're statement is based on the perception that people frown upon city-funded buildings or other improvements, I also think its tough to gauge what people actually feel since a lot of the current sentiment stems from the fact that San Diego, like many other CA cities, has experienced serious cash flow problems that make even the most civic-minded resident hesitant to support the output of city cash for a marginally beneficial public improvement.

I also think we can't draw conclusions about how people feel simply because they don't want to fund a new stadium for the Chargers (for example). If you look at Petco or the revival of downtown over the past 20 years, you'd be hard pressed to explain to how all of this took place if the majority of people in San Diego did not politically support these types of developments. Keep in mind, this is a forum where people are almost always pro development, and even on here, when plans came out for the convention center expansion, people scoffed at the idea. I think this further shows current public sentiment stems from more than just people in san diego being drab and anti-development but from frustrations that stem from other sources.

I'm pro-development as long as the projects make sense for the overall culture, character, and topography/scenery of the area. Keeping this in mind, it really makes me mad that the city continues to ignore the waterfront (downtown's greatest resource), and further wall it off. This is one of the reasons I'm against the convention center expansion. My old college roommate visited a few weeks ago and thought it was odd that here we have this beautiful bay but don't embrace it.

I'm also sick of development groups/politicians using taxpayer money to develop or expand projects that don't consider the long-term growth of the city. Yeah new things are cool, like the airport. But I'd rather see our local leaders sit down and hash out real solutions. An expanded shiny new terminal on the I-5, does nothing to solve the long-term problem of the inadequate size and length of the one runway (and inability to expand to add more).

The CCDC, City Council, and other groups seem to be very reactionary to issues, instead of proactive. There doesn't seem to be any real 5,10,20 year plan to work off of. And being reactionary only hurts us, and costs more money in the long runn.

[Fusey]

Chargers again mull Oceanside for stadium site
Councilman calls prospect of building there unlikely

Matthew T. Hall (Contact)

Thursday, June 18, 2009
-

OCEANSIDE – Two years after saying no to playing in Oceanside, the San Diego Chargers are again contemplating a new stadium there, this time at the site of a defunct drive-in theater on State Route 76.

A developer and a team spokesman stressed that it is very early in their discussions and an Oceanside councilman called the prospect highly unlikely, but the talks mark yet another attempt to keep the Chargers from bolting town.

An executive with Georgia-based Thomas Enterprises, which has approval to build 950,000 square feet of commercial space on the 90-acre site where the Valley Drive-In theater once showed flicks, broached the idea of putting a stadium there with Chargers spokesman Mark Fabiani six weeks ago.

Since then, Fabiani has shot down another developer's proposal to build a new stadium close to the existing Qualcomm Stadium in Mission Valley, and attended a Chula Vista meeting where city officials talked of their attempt to lure the team to their bayfront.

The Chula Vista option is complicated by a massive power plant on the site that the state plans to operate for some time. Yesterday, Fabiani said that possibility isn't very encouraging.

A North County site would be closer to untapped football fan markets in Los Angeles and Orange County, but Fabiani acknowledged the Oceanside property has issues as well.

The economy must rebound to support ancillary development of retail shops, hotels, residences and office space to support a stadium; there is little public transportation to the site; and it is close to Oceanside Municipal Airport.

There have been no financial studies or maps made of the site, said Mel Kuhnel, Thomas Enterprises' vice president of operations for the West Coast.

Kuhnel said meetings between his boss, Stan Thomas, and Chargers president Dean Spanos – an element of any serious discussion – would not occur this early in the process. Fabiani said he hopes that will happen next month.

“It involves a very credible development partner, which is good,” he said. “But it's in the very earliest stages, which means I would advise people if they're interested, it's something they should follow, but it's not something they should pin their hopes on at this point.”

Kuhnel has met with Fabiani twice in the last six weeks. Last week, he sat down individually with council members, including Oceanside Councilman Jerome Kern and Mayor Jim Wood, to talk Chargers and explain how the economy has hindered plans to break ground on the shopping center.

Wood said he was surprised Oceanside is back in the mix, two years after the Chargers said a stadium didn't pencil out at the Center City Golf Course. He said there would be a lot of hurdles for this new plan.

The city might soon lock in a 50-year lease extension for the airport, giving the Federal Aviation Administration a big say in nearby development. A stadium would require at least 20 acres and be up to 200 feet tall.

“I like the idea of the Chargers coming to North County, but it would be real tough to find a place for them here,” Kern said.
http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jun/18/bn18chargers-eye-oside/?chargers

Sounds iffy to me, but at least a decent developer is behind this proposal. Thomas' company is currently working on the Railyards plan in Sacramento: 240 acres immediately next to downtown.

http://sacramentorailyards.com/assets/slideShow/slide2.jpg
http://sacramentorailyards.com/

[HurricaneHugo]

Keeping this in mind, it really makes me mad that the city continues to ignore the waterfront (downtown's greatest resource), and further wall it off. This is one of the reasons I'm against the convention center expansion. My old college roommate visited a few weeks ago and thought it was odd that here we have this beautiful bay but don't embrace it.

The expansion does not wall it off anymore than it already is.

The convention center had an economic impact of 1.8 billion last year, a gain of just 100 million due to expansion will pay for it in just ten years. And the expansion is going to bring it a lot more than that.

[staplesla]

The expansion does not wall it off anymore than it already is.

The convention center had an economic impact of 1.8 billion last year, a gain of just 100 million due to expansion will pay for it in just ten years. And the expansion is going to bring it a lot more than that.

I'm not against the convention center as it is important to S.D. But the expansion would eliminate the park between the Hilton and the Southern Embarcadero. And the expansion may not seem large, but every little bit of the bayfront that is taken away is a piece that San Diegans don't get to enjoy.

[ShekelPop]

I'm not against the convention center as it is important to S.D. But the expansion would eliminate the park between the Hilton and the Southern Embarcadero. And the expansion may not seem large, but every little bit of the bayfront that is taken away is a piece that San Diegans don't get to enjoy.

I agree because I've wanted the waterfront redone for so long since a signature public space would provide one of the final touches on downtown to seal the deal for people who are iffy on moving there. But at the same time, to borrow the phrase from the port commission, it really is a working waterfront too. In that sense, we need the waterfront space to drive jobs, incomes and visitors possibly more than we need much of that space to provide a public space. Thats one of the reasons I didnt want the stadium there because the stadium contributes no net economic gain. I think its a fair compromise to use that portion of the bay for the port's use so long as the long term vision of the remaining waterfront are actually executed.

[SDCAL]

If you look at the amount of street festivals, downtown events, and outdoor concerts, I'd say San Diego, in terms of variety of events and number of attendees, far outpaces many of its California counterparts. This demonstrates people are in touch with the city and the different neighborhoods. If you're statement is based on the perception that people frown upon city-funded buildings or other improvements, I also think its tough to gauge what people actually feel since a lot of the current sentiment stems from the fact that San Diego, like many other CA cities, has experienced serious cash flow problems that make even the most civic-minded resident hesitant to support the output of city cash for a marginally beneficial public improvement.

I also think we can't draw conclusions about how people feel simply because they don't want to fund a new stadium for the Chargers (for example). If you look at Petco or the revival of downtown over the past 20 years, you'd be hard pressed to explain to how all of this took place if the majority of people in San Diego did not politically support these types of developments. Keep in mind, this is a forum where people are almost always pro development, and even on here, when plans came out for the convention center expansion, people scoffed at the idea. I think this further shows current public sentiment stems from more than just people in san diego being drab and anti-development but from frustrations that stem from other sources.


I disagree.

I'm sorry, but you can't milk the economic crisis for all of San Diego's woes.

The reason people supported the development that took place is because it was private developers building condos. We got no major civic projects, which people would have whined about.

San Diego is a very "non-centralized" city compared to other cities I have lived in and been to.

Residents here prefer living in a "cluster" environment where you are able to live in suburban communities that have everything - - no reason to go to the city center. Other cities have transit designed to bring people to the city centre for jobs, courts, restaurants, museums, etc.

A prime example of this is the library. While the main library downtown rots and the NIMBYs oppose the new library, we have sunk TONS of money into branch libraries over the last decade.

Go look it up - - we have built new libraries and renovated others all over the place in the suburbs of San Diego county, but nobody wants a central library. People would rather not have to go into the central city because it's too inconvenient and they prefer to be self-contained in suburbia.

This is not the case in alot of other places

SO don't blame everything on "cash flow" because San Diego's lack of innovative urban design goes beyond that and into the attitudes of the people.

Even when times were better and development was taking off, all we saw were condos. No major civic spaces ever came to fruition. The library has been planned way before the economic crisis hit, and it never broke ground and will now probably never be built.

Development is always a risk whether the economy is good or bad.

If the economy is good and you embark on a big project, you run the risk of a down-turn by the time the development is ready (Vantage Point)

If you decide to halt everything when the economy is bad, you will be scrambling and left with nothing when times change because these projects take many years to plan, study and build.

I am not saying you need to build every project that is proposed, I'm saying San Diegan's have no vision.

The prime example - - a new City Hall

The project makes financial sense LONG TERM, not SHORT TERM;

To me, it's a no-brainer to start this project during the bad economy when construction prices are lower, and then not have to worry about the impending doom decades to come

Even the most fierce opponents of the new city hall project admit we WILL need eventually. Case in point, City Councilman Carl deMaio says we should "wait 10 years" to build it.

Yeah, wait 10 years and see the price triple!?

again, it's not a matter of IF this project is needed, or IF this projects is financially benneficial to the city, it's whether or not we decide to save money short-term, or to save more money long-term. San Diego is notorious for taking the short-term choice.

This is supposed to go to a vote, and my prediction is it will go down in flames just like the Miramar vote because San Diegan's are visionless and can't think past the next year or two when considering anything with long term benefits, especially if they get wiff of the "T" word (taxes, oh my!!)

If it goes to a vote and voters approve it, I will eat my words, but I don't think it will.

[sopas ej]

I disagree.

I'm sorry, but you can't milk the economic crisis for all of San Diego's woes.

The reason people supported the development that took place is because it was private developers building condos. We got no major civic projects, which people would have whined about.

Is this because San Diego has traditionally been a bastion of Republicanism?

[Viva-city]

San Diegan's have no vision. It's not a matter of IF this project is needed, or IF this projects is financially beneficial to the city, it's whether or not we decide to save money short-term, or to save more money long-term. San Diego is notorious for taking the short-term choice.



I've written my July Life in the City column on this topic and looking for quotes from Downtowners. Please contact me before Tuesday if you are a Downtowner and would like to be included. My website is viva-city dot info.

[tdavis]

Is this because San Diego has traditionally been a bastion of Republicanism?

I don't think it has anything to do with being a Republican. I'm a Republican but am for the majority of development projects. I just think we have poor leaders, who don't inspire and encourage citizens to see the value of certain projects. Thus the NIMBYism sticks around. For example, the airport vote a couple years ago at Miramar. If local leaders presented the measure to San Diegans in a way that the majority could see the economic benefit a larger airport with additional runways could have, while implementing measures to reduce sound, etc. I think the measure would have passed.

I can guarantee you the City Hall measure will most likely fail now that it is going to the people for the same reason. Most voters don't take the time to do their research and I bet the leadership will not convey that a new City Hall would combine the offices scattered all over for a cost savings in the long run.

So it isn't Republicans or Democrats. It's bad leadership all together!

[sopas ej]

I don't think it has anything to do with being a Republican. I'm a Republican but am for the majority of development projects. I just think we have poor leaders, who don't inspire and encourage citizens to see the value of certain projects. Thus the NIMBYism sticks around. For example, the airport vote a couple years ago at Miramar. If local leaders presented the measure to San Diegans in a way that the majority could see the economic benefit a larger airport with additional runways could have, while implementing measures to reduce sound, etc. I think the measure would have passed.

I can guarantee you the City Hall measure will most likely fail now that it is going to the people for the same reason. Most voters don't take the time to do their research and I bet the leadership will not convey that a new City Hall would combine the offices scattered all over for a cost savings in the long run.

So it isn't Republicans or Democrats. It's bad leadership all together!

Bad leadership I suppose, yes; but it's statements like the following, which someone actually posted in response to the "New life for a new downtown library?" story (http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jun/18/bn18library112441/?dsq=11134913#comment-11134913), that make me still think that many San Diegans probably think this way: "If you want to read, go by a book at the store. Thats how capitalism works. Libraries are about as socialist as you can get."

I was appalled when I read that.

[tdavis]

Bad leadership I suppose, yes; but it's statements like the following, which someone actually posted in response to the "New life for a new downtown library?" story (http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jun/18/bn18library112441/?dsq=11134913#comment-11134913), that make me still think that many San Diegans probably think this way: "If you want to read, go by a book at the store. Thats how capitalism works. Libraries are about as socialist as you can get."

I was appalled when I read that.

I agree that statement is appalling. But we can't lump all democrats and republicans into a category.

[Marina_Guy]

Bad leadership I suppose, yes; but it's statements like the following, which someone actually posted in response to the "New life for a new downtown library?" story (http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jun/18/bn18library112441/?dsq=11134913#comment-11134913), that make me still think that many San Diegans probably think this way: "If you want to read, go by a book at the store. Thats how capitalism works. Libraries are about as socialist as you can get."

I was appalled when I read that.

Especially with the rest of the comment you left out
"build the Stadium!!!!!!"

Sad place is San Diego right now...

[staplesla]

Interesting press release regarding Cosmopolitan by the CCDC.

http://www.ccdc.com/events/resources/Item%2011%20-%20Cosmopolitan%20Square.pdf

[staplesla]

Notice of default filed against Gaslamp Renaissance Hotel.

http://www.ccdc.com/events/resources/Item%2016%20-%20Gaslamp%20Hotel.pdf

[HurricaneHugo]

Interesting press release regarding Cosmopolitan by the CCDC.

http://www.ccdc.com/events/resources/Item%2011%20-%20Cosmopolitan%20Square.pdf

18 month extension?

I'll take it! :D

[SDCAL]

Bad leadership I suppose, yes; but it's statements like the following, which someone actually posted in response to the "New life for a new downtown library?" story (http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jun/18/bn18library112441/?dsq=11134913#comment-11134913), that make me still think that many San Diegans probably think this way: "If you want to read, go by a book at the store. Thats how capitalism works. Libraries are about as socialist as you can get."

I was appalled when I read that.

I agree with you, I can barely read the comments that come out whenever a downtown library story makes the news because they are so ignorant.

One common thing people say is "we don't need libraries anymore now that we have the internet".

There is TONS of stuff I can't get off the internet, especially not for free, I think quotes like this come from people who think wikipedia serves all their in-depth research needs (I like wikipedia, but it's only for quick fact-getting info not in-depth research).

Another common thing people say is that we don't need a "central" library, we can just duplicate everything at all the various branch libraries.

Again, I think the people who write those things are people who only read stuff that is mainstream/basic and typically available at any well-stocked branch library. They don't realize there are specialized collections and less common specialty items that can't be found on the internet and are far to expensive to house in duplicate at every branch library. They also would not get enough use if replicated at all the branches, but having one public place in a metro of 3 million where such specialized materials can be housed in necessary

[Derek]

Interesting press release regarding Cosmopolitan by the CCDC.

http://www.ccdc.com/events/resources/Item%2011%20-%20Cosmopolitan%20Square.pdf



Too bad we can't see any real action.

[Derek]

One calls it “brilliant.” A second sees it as a way to expand educational opportunities. A third views it as a last ditch-effort at saving a project headed for failure.

On Tuesday, June 23, members of the San Diego school board will take up a controversial plan to spend $20 million of district money to help build a long-delayed downtown library.

The proposal calls for the San Diego Unified School District to use money from Proposition S — a $2.1-billion voter-approved measure to improve and build public schools — for a charter high school on two floors of a nine-story library planned for city-owned land near Petco Park.

The $20 million would fund part of the library's construction cost and could be critical in keeping plans for the iconic structure afloat.

The school district would lease the sixth and seventh floors at Park Boulevard and J Street for 40 years under the deal. The district could back out of the deal if construction costs exceeded what's been budgeted or officials are unable to secure full funding, among other reasons.

The San Diego City Council's Rules Committee is expected to address the project the day after the school board. The council discussed the project in closed session Tuesday morning, but no action was taken, said Gina Coburn, spokeswoman for the City Attorney's Office.

Schools Superintendent Terry Grier said Tuesday that he thinks there's a “good chance” the school board will approve the project.

“It's a brilliant opportunity for our students,” said school board member Katherine Nakamura.

“I support the concept, and I support it really for one primary reason,” said Trustee Richard Barrera. “The options for high school students downtown are limited.”

San Diego High School is the only comprehensive high school campus in the area, but it has room for just 2,900 students, Barrera said. Yet there are 5,000 students living within the school's enrollment boundary.

But longtime trustee John de Beck reiterated his opposition to the plan yesterday. “It's a last-minute attempt at saving the library,” he said.

School board President Shelia Jackson and trustee John Evans could not be reached for comment.

Backers of the library say it will cost $185 million to build, a price that critics say is vastly understated. Downtown redevelopment dollars would provide $80 million, a state grant covers $20 million and a nonprofit foundation has raised $35 million, with more, it says, on its way.

One sticking point earlier in the planning was that adding a school to the library would require the building to comply with the state's Field Act -- long-standing state law intended to ensure that public schools are built earthquake-safe. Staff reports say a charter school doesn't have to comply with the Field Act, but would have to comply with state building code.

The city must show a viable financing plan by July 1 to keep the stategrant.

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jun/18/bn18library112441/?dsq=11134913#comment-11134913



Good luck to them...

[Fusey]

Chula Vista Out As Possible Chargers Stadium Site

CHULA VISTA, Calif. -- Despite two years of talks and studies, the city of Chula Vista is now off the list of possible sites for a new Chargers stadium.

"Just like any big project, you need to have advocates," said Chula Vista Deputy Mayor John McCann.

Chula Vista's city council came together Tuesday night to decide the fate of the just-formed Chargers subcommittee.

One week ago, the biggest obstacle to a stadium -- tearing down the South Bay Power Plant -- got even bigger when the options for power became fewer as a state commission rejected a new Peaker Plant in the South Bay.

"Obviously, it was a setback," said McCann.

On Monday, 10News learned McCann, a U.S. Navy reserve, was called to duty in Iraq and will serve for a year.

Chula Vista Mayor Cheryl Cox said, "Definitely Mr. McCann has been the No. 1 Chargers cheerleader."

Without McCann and not much sign of progress, a proposal to put the stadium subcommittee on hiatus was approved by the council.

In response, Chargers representative Mark Fabiani said, "This decision sends a message that they're not interested. With the city unable to get the power plant shut down, we will now walk away."

"I think it's a sad day for Chula Vista. It would have meant thousands of jobs for us," said McCann.

With Chula Vista now off the list, the Chargers said they are looking at several downtown San Diego sites as well as Oceanside.

Los Angeles remains in the picture, but the team said it is committed to the San Diego area for now.
http://www.10news.com/news/19849294/detail.html

[staplesla]

http://www.10news.com/news/19849294/detail.html

The lack of leadership from anyone in San Diego county amazes me. If this continues for too much longer we will lose the Charges to L.A. or another city. I personally could care less about the Chargers, but having a professional football team is important to the image of a city and also attracting businesses.

[Derek]

Fuck this county. So much.

[Fusey]

Move to Spain, Derek. The paella is delicious.

[staplesla]

With Chula Vista no longer an option for a new football stadium for the Chargers, a contender both new and old could be emerging to keep the Bolts in town -- the city of San Diego, a team official said Friday.

The local NFL franchise wants a new facility to replace aging Qualcomm Stadium but has failed to forge deals in San Diego, Chula Vista, National City or Oceanside.

A provision in the team's lease allows them time to look into moving to other cities, but the window has closed for this year. Pre-season training camp opens next month.

After several years of riding pine due to financial problems and political opposition, the city of San Diego is back in the conversation, said Chargers special counsel Mark Fabiani.

The Chargers have held more discussions with San Diego officials in the past four months than during the entire four years of Mike Aguirre's tenure as city attorney, Fabiani said.

City employees appear to feel free to talk now that Aguirre is out of office, he said. "People are talking, people are interested. Nothing has jelled,"Fabiani said.

He said the "preliminary ideas" brought forth include property east of Petco Park, and another look at part of the Tenth Avenue Marine Terminal.

Renewed interest by the city stems from financial losses being taken at the current stadium in Mission Valley, which sits empty except for football games and occasional special events, he said. The land could raise a substantial amount of money if sold.

Darren Pudgil of Mayor Jerry Sanders' office said no sites have been taken off the table. "There have been some informal talks between the city and the Chargers," Pudgil said. "Those will continue. The mayor is committed to finding a home for the Chargers somewhere in the San Diego region."

The Chargers are currently studying 90 acres along state Route 76 in Oceanside that was once home to the Valley Drive-In.

That site has complications, in that it's close to a municipal airport and a developer has been granted a permit to build 950,000 square feet of commercial space there.

"Our view is it's worth exploring," Fabiani said. He said the team's courtship with Chula Vista ran into multiple problems. The team's leading booster on the city council in Chula Vista, John McCann, is deploying to Iraq next month with the Naval Reserves for one year.

A plan to replace a power plant at the proposed bayfront site was denied recently by the state Public Utilities Commission, Fabiani said. "Without that bayfront site being available, there's not much more we can do," Fabiani said.

He also said the Chula Vista City Council voted this week to disband a Chargers sub-committee.

Chula Vista could return as a prospective site if the bayfront power plant is shut down, he said.

Fabiani cautioned that every proposed site will have some obstacles. The economic conditions are also a barrier, but Dean Spanos, the team president, would like to find a site now with hope that the markets are improved by the time financing is needed, he said.

http://www.10news.com/news/19874676/detail.html

[Derek]

With Chula Vista no longer an option for a new football stadium for the Chargers, a contender both new and old could be emerging to keep the Bolts in town -- the city of San Diego, a team official said Friday.

The local NFL franchise wants a new facility to replace aging Qualcomm Stadium but has failed to forge deals in San Diego, Chula Vista, National City or Oceanside.

A provision in the team's lease allows them time to look into moving to other cities, but the window has closed for this year. Pre-season training camp opens next month.

After several years of riding pine due to financial problems and political opposition, the city of San Diego is back in the conversation, said Chargers special counsel Mark Fabiani.

The Chargers have held more discussions with San Diego officials in the past four months than during the entire four years of Mike Aguirre's tenure as city attorney, Fabiani said.

City employees appear to feel free to talk now that Aguirre is out of office, he said. "People are talking, people are interested. Nothing has jelled,"Fabiani said.

He said the "preliminary ideas" brought forth include property east of Petco Park, and another look at part of the Tenth Avenue Marine Terminal.

Renewed interest by the city stems from financial losses being taken at the current stadium in Mission Valley, which sits empty except for football games and occasional special events, he said. The land could raise a substantial amount of money if sold.

Darren Pudgil of Mayor Jerry Sanders' office said no sites have been taken off the table. "There have been some informal talks between the city and the Chargers," Pudgil said. "Those will continue. The mayor is committed to finding a home for the Chargers somewhere in the San Diego region."

The Chargers are currently studying 90 acres along state Route 76 in Oceanside that was once home to the Valley Drive-In.

That site has complications, in that it's close to a municipal airport and a developer has been granted a permit to build 950,000 square feet of commercial space there.

"Our view is it's worth exploring," Fabiani said. He said the team's courtship with Chula Vista ran into multiple problems. The team's leading booster on the city council in Chula Vista, John McCann, is deploying to Iraq next month with the Naval Reserves for one year.

A plan to replace a power plant at the proposed bayfront site was denied recently by the state Public Utilities Commission, Fabiani said. "Without that bayfront site being available, there's not much more we can do," Fabiani said.

He also said the Chula Vista City Council voted this week to disband a Chargers sub-committee.

Chula Vista could return as a prospective site if the bayfront power plant is shut down, he said.

Fabiani cautioned that every proposed site will have some obstacles. The economic conditions are also a barrier, but Dean Spanos, the team president, would like to find a site now with hope that the markets are improved by the time financing is needed, he said.

http://www.10news.com/news/19874676/detail.html



All talk!

[Derek]

Move to Spain, Derek. The paella is delicious.



The girl and I may be moving to Chicago in a few years. We'll see how it plays out.

[PadreHomer]

Property east of Petco would be my dream location

[Crackertastik]

Property east of Petco would be my dream location

Completely Agree...I think its the best set up area for a Large Crowd, including parking and all that jazz. Best for pregaming it, in the gaslamp, and best for location for Super Bowls, etc.

THAT would be a dream come true.

[eburress]

^^ Unfortunately, I am afraid a dream is all that will ever be.

[tdavis]

I agree that is the best location as well. You already have the services of Petco, access to light rail, and the crowd could spill over into downtown after the games to help the city.

The only way this site would happen if there is pressure on the city leaders/Chargers. I've sent an email to all to encourage them to strongly consider this location.

[bmfarley]

I agree that is the best location as well. You already have the services of Petco, access to light rail, and the crowd could spill over into downtown after the games to help the city.

The only way this site would happen if there is pressure on the city leaders/Chargers. I've sent an email to all to encourage them to strongly consider this location.


Downtown would be sweet... if you like large sites sitting unused for the majority of the year. The site in question also has existing public uses... notably a large bus yard. Relocating that function would be a huge cost to taxpayers... and have its own relocation efforts that would need to be answered first.

I like another site... on the waterfront at the 10th Avenue Terminal IF IF marine and stadium uses can coexist in a postive and functional way.

But, I think the northwest quadrant of I-5 and I-8 is best. Light-rail is there.. or soon will be. And, I can imagine a little teraforming and some new marine docs and townhomes to go along with the site. Being Mission Bay would be pretty sweet.

[ShekelPop]

But, I think the northwest quadrant of I-5 and I-8 is best. Light-rail is there.. or soon will be. And, I can imagine a little teraforming and some new marine docs and townhomes to go along with the site. Being Mission Bay would be pretty sweet.

If I'm not mistaken, Farley's mentioned and promoted this site potential before. (and if not you, then someone else surely has). I've always liked this idea ever since it was mentioned. I felt if you considered the low impact on the number of residents (from what I can picture it affects very few residential homes compared with all other site proposals - am i wrong?), then because its not directly near as many homes as other sites, this location has a good argument on its side.

[bmfarley]

If I'm not mistaken, Farley's mentioned and promoted this site potential before. (and if not you, then someone else surely has). I've always liked this idea ever since it was mentioned. I felt if you considered the low impact on the number of residents (from what I can picture it affects very few residential homes compared with all other site proposals - am i wrong?), then because its not directly near as many homes as other sites, this location has a good argument on its side.If you say something often enough... sooner or later it will make sense. :)

Do I know you?

[Crackertastik]

If you say something often enough... sooner or later it will make sense. :)

Do I know you?

Why would a new stadium remain largely unused? Most modern stadium have TONS of activities year round. Concerts, conventions, trade shows, football, basketball, soccer, etc.

They aren't just football stadiums. Hell you can use the floor as convention center space if its that close by.

I think downtown makes the most sense. And if there is a public transportation spot on the land needed, that is why we have designers who can utilize the space for multifunction.

[SD_Phil]

^the economics of large stadiums just don't work that way. it takes a lot of money to rent out a huge venue like a football stadium. Very few concerts would make a profit because of those costs and those bands that could pencil out at a football stadium already have several large venues in the San Diego area that are well established.

The same economic problems would plague using a football stadium for most of the things you've listed: SD doesn't have a basketball team and no amateur teams could make money using a stadium that large as a venue, same goes for soccer. Convention space is equally baffling as a use given the multitude of convention specific spaces in SD. So far as I know only the very largest conventions have found the convention center lacking (I know we may lose Comic-Con for this reason).

Land downtown is very valuable. A football stadium just doesn't make sense there...at all.

[staplesla]

"As population rankings go, San Diego's descent this decade has been swift. First it was Phoenix that knocked the city down a notch from its No. 6 berth, and a few years later along came San Antonio, dislodging it from No. 7. Now, Texas has struck again."

I'm not surprised. The DFW metroplex is growing like crazy. Also, the city of Dallas has a team of people going to Fortune 500 businesses trying to entice them to move their headquarters to Dallas, stating the "economy is better, lower unemployment, lower cost of living, and lower cost to do business." AT&T and others recently made the move. And I didn't know till yesterday that TX has the most Fortune 500 companies, with NY being second, and CA third.

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jul/01/dallas-barely-sneaks-ahead-8th-place-population/

[ShekelPop]

If you say something often enough... sooner or later it will make sense. :)

Do I know you?

ha. no we don't know each other, but for whatever reason i remembered the stadium discussion from a while ago and recalled that you mentioned the mission bay location at that time as well. im always a sucker for a little rail rerouting and harbor fill projects.

[S.DviaPhilly]

^the economics of large stadiums just don't work that way. it takes a lot of money to rent out a huge venue like a football stadium. Very few concerts would make a profit because of those costs and those bands that could pencil out at a football stadium already have several large venues in the San Diego area that are well established.

The same economic problems would plague using a football stadium for most of the things you've listed: SD doesn't have a basketball team and no amateur teams could make money using a stadium that large as a venue, same goes for soccer. Convention space is equally baffling as a use given the multitude of convention specific spaces in SD. So far as I know only the very largest conventions have found the convention center lacking (I know we may lose Comic-Con for this reason).

Land downtown is very valuable. A football stadium just doesn't make sense there...at all.



I think the stadium downtown is a great idea. Look what Petco Park did for East Village. I do not think all these new condo buildings would exist if it were not for the ballpark. Having the football stadium downtown would do the same further east. Since the new football stadium will be a super bowl caliber stadium, downtown has a lot of hotels for people to stay in and downtown has the harbor for ships/boats to dock. And don't forget the fun gaslamp quarter.

If people think congestion is a problem take a look at Philadelphia's 4 stadiums all right next to each other. South Philly is now building "Philly Live", which is going to be shops, restaurants, and entertainment in South Philly. Downtown has public transportation available right now, with highways only blocks away. I do agree that downtown's land is valuable, but not when it is abandoned and filled with the homeless. DEVELOP DOWNTOWN, DEVELOP!!!!!!

[bmfarley]

I think the stadium downtown is a great idea. Look what Petco Park did for East Village. I do not think all these new condo buildings would exist if it were not for the ballpark. Having the football stadium downtown would do the same further east. Since the new football stadium will be a super bowl caliber stadium, downtown has a lot of hotels for people to stay in and downtown has the harbor for ships/boats to dock. And don't forget the fun gaslamp quarter.

If people think congestion is a problem take a look at Philadelphia's 4 stadiums all right next to each other. South Philly is now building "Philly Live", which is going to be shops, restaurants, and entertainment in South Philly. Downtown has public transportation available right now, with highways only blocks away. I do agree that downtown's land is valuable, but not when it is abandoned and filled with the homeless. DEVELOP DOWNTOWN, DEVELOP!!!!!!
Well, we know football and baseball are very different. Baseball has 81 games a season, many are in the evening and can be matched to after-game festivities and drinks... and extending a date with a hottie. Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights are prime.

Football, on the other hand, has 8 home games a year, add about 2 for pre-season and maybe a playoff game if the team is good, then you have 10-12 in a good year. But, all but 2-4 games are on Sunday afternoons.

Sunday afternoon games do not seem to have a good opportunity to greatly benefit downtown businesses. The best thing that can be said... for retail that is... is that football draws about 60,000 fans at a time. For a season... that's probably about 600,000 butts. I think baseball draws over 2 million a season. Maybe 3 million.

[tdavis]

Ok, those that think a downtown stadium would sit vacant for most of the year are flat out wrong. The stadium last year hosted over 150 events, including obviously the Chargers games, but also conventions such as the Jehovah Witness convention, soccer games including the recent Mexico vs. Guatemala match, drag racing, and the numerous trade shows and conventions.

The stadium is host to:
* San Diego Chargers Football
* San Diego State University Aztecs Football
* Pacific Life Holiday Bowl
* San Diego County Credit Union Poinsettia Bowl
* San Diego Auto Connection
* OMBAC
* Big 3 Auto Parts Exchange
* RaceLegal

[Derek]

A new stadium in this region could also attract more bowl games. :)

[SD_Phil]

^Right and many of those functions can happen at Qualcomm given it's current age and location and it's current costs. A brand new stadium, downtown, wouldn't be able to support the same kinds of activities at a cost that's competitive with competing venues with a far lower cost structure. I mean it seems like a strange comparison to compare what an aging (though by no means 'old') stadium 15 miles outside downtown on relatively cheap land could afford to do relative to a brand new stadium downtown and it's associated cost structure...

[HurricaneHugo]

I just want a new stadium to keep the Chargers and perhaps host a World Cup match or two. :)

[OneMetropolis]

"As population rankings go, San Diego's descent this decade has been swift. First it was Phoenix that knocked the city down a notch from its No. 6 berth, and a few years later along came San Antonio, dislodging it from No. 7. Now, Texas has struck again."

I'm not surprised. The DFW metroplex is growing like crazy. Also, the city of Dallas has a team of people going to Fortune 500 businesses trying to entice them to move their headquarters to Dallas, stating the "economy is better, lower unemployment, lower cost of living, and lower cost to do business." AT&T and others recently made the move. And I didn't know till yesterday that TX has the most Fortune 500 companies, with NY being second, and CA third.

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jul/01/dallas-barely-sneaks-ahead-8th-place-population/


Sad :no::(

[Derek]

I just want a new stadium to keep the Chargers and perhaps host a World Cup match or two. :)



I just wish it wasn't too much to ask. :(

[SD_Phil]

Sad :no::(

Not entirely sure why this is sad. So long as growth is healthy (or at least so long as there is growth) then why should we care whether other cities are growing faster or whether SD is the 7th or 9th largest city in the country? It's not clear that San Antonio or Phoenix or etc are doing better just because they have more people, in some cases it seems like the opposite is true.

[PadreHomer]

The bus depot is a terrible use of space in that area.

The choice is to build something truly fantastic or something merely great, I say reach for fantastic.

[bmfarley]

The bus depot is a terrible use of space in that area.

The choice is to build something truly fantastic or something merely great, I say reach for fantastic.
I agree there is opportunity to improve southeast San Diego. Starting with that yard is a logical place. However, the function of the yard would need to relocate elsewhere first.

[Filambata]

I believe lots of federal funds are apportioned according to population and population ranking...?

Not entirely sure why this is sad. So long as growth is healthy (or at least so long as there is growth) then why should we care whether other cities are growing faster or whether SD is the 7th or 9th largest city in the country? It's not clear that San Antonio or Phoenix or etc are doing better just because they have more people, in some cases it seems like the opposite is true.

[OneMetropolis]

Not entirely sure why this is sad. So long as growth is healthy (or at least so long as there is growth) then why should we care whether other cities are growing faster or whether SD is the 7th or 9th largest city in the country? It's not clear that San Antonio or Phoenix or etc are doing better just because they have more people, in some cases it seems like the opposite is true.

well being on top helps civic pride and it's kinda sad to see us tank you know my hometown.

[bmfarley]

I believe lots of federal funds are apportioned according to population and population ranking...?

Population rank has nothing to do with amounts apportioned to Urban Areas. Population, yes. Rank, no.

[staplesla]

The proposal to build a new main library in downtown San Diego picked up more momentum yesterday when the City Council agreed to incorporate a high school to help fund it.

The San Diego Unified School District has agreed to chip in $20 million in exchange for a long-term lease of two floors of the nine-story library. The council voted 5-3 to move forward with the new school-library combination.

Council members Todd Gloria and Marti Emerald said that despite the city's financial woes – San Diego faces deficits of $100 million or more per year – it's still important to embrace bold projects.

“This is an opportunity to show that there is some vision on this council, that we are willing to move this project forward, that we dare to dream big and do things even in difficult times,” Gloria said.

Emerald agreed.

“We may be down, but we are not out,” she said. “To sit and cower because of a bad economy, to be afraid of moving forward, to lack a vision, I think is a disservice to the community.”

Council members Donna Frye, Sherri Lightner and Carl DeMaio opposed moving forward, saying the city can't afford it.

The construction cost was pegged at $185 million in 2005. Getting a new cost estimate and updating the plans will cost $500,000 to $700,000. The city has spent $17 million on planning and designing the project and preparing the library site, officials said.

Council members expressed concerns about the expense of staffing and operating the new central library, which would be more than twice the size of the existing one.

“Restoring the city's financial strength must be our first priority so that all of the other goals we hope to accomplish have a chance to be achieved,” Lightner said. “Neighborhood libraries, which are used by the majority of San Diegans, already suffer from limited hours and short staffing. To further cut those branches at this time so a new central library can be built, furnished, maintained and operated would be unwarranted.”

The sixth and seventh floors would be used for a charter school serving about 400 students at the East Village location.

The council's endorsement will help San Diego keep a $20 million state grant. In addition to state and schools money, the library is relying on $80 million in downtown redevelopment funds and private donations.

Yesterday's council vote directs the city to send a letter to the state committing to collaboration with the district. The city may terminate the deal if construction costs are too high.


WHAT'S NEXT

September: Council to enter contract with school district and amend contracts with architects and others to update specifications

November: City to put project out to bid

July 2010: Construction contract to be awarded

January 2013: Building to be completed

July 2013: Library to open

[sandiegodweller]

July 08, 2009

JMI seeks to keep hotel going

San Diego's downtown redevelopment agency indicated today that it will give Padres owner John Moores' development company what it wants to keep alive a potential hotel at Ballpark Village, across the street from the Petco Park.

JMI Realty wants a 5-year extension of its density allotment to 2016 and the right to move some of its required parking spaces to the Metropolitan Transit System garage at 11th and Imperial avenues. The company said it needs the concessions to keep its lenders happy and make the site more marketable.

The split vote at a Centre City Development Corp. committee meeting came over the objections of the hotel workers union, UNITE Local 30, and the labor-friendly Center on Policy Initiatives. They argued the city should hold those points in reserve as negotiating tools when JMI submits its hotel plans, expected in the fall.

The hotel will be a large project, and the city would likely look to demand some concessions from the developer. In the past, it was dictating the placement of affordable housing.

The hotel union supported JMI's past hotel proposal on the site, a 1,900-room Marriott, because that company agreed to protect organizing rights for workers. Another operator might not be favorable to a similar agreement.

Marriott pulled out of the project last year, but JMI still hopes to build a hotel and attract another hospitality company.

The issue will eventually end up at the City Council for a final decision.

Posted by Jeanette Steele | 02:07 PM

[tdavis]

July 08, 2009

San Diego's downtown redevelopment agency indicated today that it will give Padres owner John Moores' development company what it wants to keep alive a potential hotel at Ballpark Village, across the street from the Petco Park.

Where does JMI want to build this? Where is across the street?

[HurricaneHugo]

It's to the east/southeast of the park. Dunno the exact streets.

[bmfarley]

It's to the east/southeast of the park. Dunno the exact streets.

Between Imperial and the Trolley/RR tracks.... and the 11th Ave (stub street)and Park Blvd. This project was discussed in this thread some months ago...

[HurricaneHugo]

Forgot to say it sooner...but has anybody watched Transformers 2?

I don't know if it was the weed but I could have sworn San Diego's skyline popped up for about two seconds while they were flying to some base.

[Derek]

It was definitely San Diego. :laugh:



I noticed that, too.



Is anybody else on here going to Street Scene? Beastie Boys are headlining. :D :D

[cata77]

Forgot to say it sooner...but has anybody watched Transformers 2?

I don't know if it was the weed but I could have sworn San Diego's skyline popped up for about two seconds while they were flying to some base.

yeah i saw that too

[SD_Phil]

Is anybody else on here going to Street Scene? Beastie Boys are headlining. :D :D

Be there both days. I'm psyched about the awesomeness of the bands this year.

[Derek]

I already got my two day pass. :D

[HurricaneHugo]

Can somebody please explain to me why there's always traffic on the 163 on ramp from the 5? ON A SATURDAY??!!!

I know it's horribly designed (4 lanes converge into 1 in a matter of seconds) but still...ITS A SATURDAY!!!

[Derek]

I was there last night. What time were you there?

[HurricaneHugo]

This was at 1pm...

[Derek]

Oh. :(


But yeah that interchange is ridiculous. I was on it again today and almost got sideswiped on both sides of my car at the same time!

[S.DviaPhilly]

I went for my usual walk to the Market 32 on 10th and island and I have to say the fake grass in front of fahrenheit and M2i stinks real bad today (must be the heat) of dog piss and such. Why don't they just put real grass there, so the urine stink and bugs go away or at least die down a bit. DAMN!!!

[staplesla]

I went for my usual walk to the Market 32 on 10th and island and I have to say the fake grass in front of fahrenheit and M2i stinks real bad today (must be the heat) of dog piss and such. Why don't they just put real grass there, so the urine stink and bugs go away or at least die down a bit. DAMN!!!

It's been like that for a while now. I always cross the street before walking down that block because the smell makes me sick.

[sopas ej]

From jetsongreen.com:

Beyond Platinum City Hall Proposal (http://www.jetsongreen.com/2009/07/leed-platinum-san-diego-city-hall-proposal.html)
Written by Preston Koerner | July 14, 2009

http://jetsongreen.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c67ce53ef0115710cf41d970c-500wi

According to the Union-Tribune, a $432 million project is making its way to San Diego City Council for consideration as the new San Diego City Hall. Although still in early stages, developer Gerding Edlen indicates that the design is beyond LEED Platinum, and according to some, it could be one of the greenest buildings on the West Coast if built. The 23-story building, with a design that kind of resembles a large sail, has some of the following green elements:

http://jetsongreen.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c67ce53ef0115720b3cbd970b-500wi



Solar thermal panels that offset about 75% of total hot water demand;
Solar PV panels that provide roughly 8% of total energy use;
Natural light, efficient lights, and smart controls that reduce energy consumed by 9%;
Small wind turbines that generate supplemental electricity;
Waste water that's treated on-site for reuse and to be exported elsewhere;
A green roof to capture and filter rainwater; and
An efficient chilled water system that cools the building.


The Zimmer Gunsul Frasca Architects design is handsome and innovative, and if San Diego decides to build something, they'd be in good hands with Gerding Edlen. The company has considerable experience with LEED projects, as well as a cutting edge Living Building Challenge project called the Oregon Sustainability Center. In any event, only time will tell as the new green San Diego City Hall still has a number of details to be determined.

http://jetsongreen.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c67ce53ef0115710cf7de970c-500wi

http://jetsongreen.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c67ce53ef01157201a54d970b-500wi

http://jetsongreen.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c67ce53ef01157201a62d970b-500wi

[HurricaneHugo]

Build it.

[Fusey]

^ Let's hope so. That part of the city really needs a project like this.

[ThreeHundred]

Build that now.

[staplesla]

The Gerding project won't be built until it comes up for a public vote. Many people think we don't need to build a new city hall building in this current fiscal climate (though I disagree). Therefore, the city council is stating that because public funds will be used it will be put up for a public vote.

[sopas ej]

^^^
Maybe it's time to start collecting signatures in support of the new City Hall? If I lived in San Diego I would be totally for it.