[kpexpress]

CCDC finally updated their interactive map and I saw this!! 11th & Broadway (http://www.ccdc.com/projects/major-downtown-projects/projects-landing-page/east-village/1147-11th-a-broadway.html) Has anyone ever heard of the proposal on 11th & Broadway?

I'm not a fan of twin's either. These are a distant contrast to some of MC's previous work..... Nice to see something more contemporary in that area, in keeping with contrasts these would contrast well to the pasty stucco and painted concrete of Vantage Point, 1050 B (Cutri) and Smart Corner.

[mello]

I'm down with 11th and Broadway, looks great. So I just drove through Denver today, in Colorado Springs now visiting family. First time driving in the metro area and it looks like Denver has a significantly larger amount of high rises outside of their downtown than San Diego. This area is quite flat and obviously not coastal so its real estate is not restricted yet they have more verticality then the SD metro.

Why is it that San Diego is so afraid of height outside of downtown? I just don't get it. Denver is a smaller metro and has more stuff, I think for a metro area of our size our amount of mid and highrises outside of DT is really pathetic, do you guys agree. SD is way too low rise :(

[Derek]

I'm down with 11th and Broadway, looks great. So I just drove through Denver today, in Colorado Springs now visiting family. First time driving in the metro area and it looks like Denver has a significantly larger amount of high rises outside of their downtown than San Diego. This area is quite flat and obviously not coastal so its real estate is not restricted yet they have more verticality then the SD metro.

Why is it that San Diego is so afraid of height outside of downtown? I just don't get it. Denver is a smaller metro and has more stuff, I think for a metro area of our size our amount of mid and highrises outside of DT is really pathetic, do you guys agree. SD is way too low rise :(

It's because 90% (so it seems) of the people in San Diego doesn't support high density, or pretty much any kind of growth for that matter....among many other things wrong with this city. :(

[eburress]

I'm down with 11th and Broadway, looks great. So I just drove through Denver today, in Colorado Springs now visiting family. First time driving in the metro area and it looks like Denver has a significantly larger amount of high rises outside of their downtown than San Diego. This area is quite flat and obviously not coastal so its real estate is not restricted yet they have more verticality then the SD metro.

Why is it that San Diego is so afraid of height outside of downtown? I just don't get it. Denver is a smaller metro and has more stuff, I think for a metro area of our size our amount of mid and highrises outside of DT is really pathetic, do you guys agree. SD is way too low rise :(

Aren't there still parts of SD in which buildings' height is limited by an ordinance?

[kpexpress]

I'm down with 11th and Broadway, looks great. So I just drove through Denver today, in Colorado Springs now visiting family. First time driving in the metro area and it looks like Denver has a significantly larger amount of high rises outside of their downtown than San Diego. This area is quite flat and obviously not coastal so its real estate is not restricted yet they have more verticality then the SD metro.

Why is it that San Diego is so afraid of height outside of downtown? I just don't get it. Denver is a smaller metro and has more stuff, I think for a metro area of our size our amount of mid and highrises outside of DT is really pathetic, do you guys agree. SD is way too low rise :(

I think we are very much a poli-centric city. This bothers me. UTC, Mission Valley, Sorrento Valley, Downtown, etc. They all compete for willing investors to build projects. Density and height are not similar by the way.... I understand that market factors and personal preferences do spur growth and density outside of downtown, I just think that downtown should be the most advantageous place to develop. There should be more incentives and streamlined procedures to encourage developers to invest their money in downtown and not Mission Valley.

As for height.... I think the height restriction on downtown SD has done the city wonders in terms of aesthetics. It has helped to broaden the cluster of highrises rather evenly - aside from the gaslamp quarter. Many feel the skyline is 'squaty', I like this cause it spreads the density farther than just along the B street corridor. If not, we would have a LA-style Bunker Hill effect along B street.

[staplesla]

Some pics regarding the Seaport Village old police headquarters project.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/photos/galleries/2011/sep/15/old-police-headquarters-project/

http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2011/09/15/policerendering_t620x349.JPG?355b3277bec9d339f1728cced3aced55a8e84e56

[kpexpress]

A new point loma!
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/ScreenShot2011-09-19at84025AM.jpg


http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/ScreenShot2011-09-19at85317AM.jpg

[Dale]

Some pics regarding the Seaport Village old police headquarters project.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/photos/galleries/2011/sep/15/old-police-headquarters-project/

http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2011/09/15/policerendering_t620x349.JPG?355b3277bec9d339f1728cced3aced55a8e84e56

Hasn't this project been planned for more than twenty years ?

[Derek]

A new point loma!
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/ScreenShot2011-09-19at84025AM.jpg


http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/ScreenShot2011-09-19at85317AM.jpg

Details? It looks like a good idea...

[tyleraf]

A new point loma!
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/ScreenShot2011-09-19at84025AM.jpg


http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/ScreenShot2011-09-19at85317AM.jpg

Any ideas on the height? Also any other renders?

[HurricaneHugo]

I can't tell what streets are those.

[tyleraf]

Harbor Dr is the front steet in the project. The project is right past Liberty Station

[dl3000]

Is that Harbor Drive and Nimitz?

[HurricaneHugo]

Somebody should do this with San Diego's skyline:

http://i.imgur.com/w58l5.jpg

[Leo the Dog]

Somebody should do this with San Diego's skyline:

http://i.imgur.com/w58l5.jpg

That's awesome!

[202_Cyclist]

Trolley extension takes a step forward

La Jolla Light
9/25/2011

"Federal officials have given a nod to the project that will bring the San Diego Trolley Blue Line from the Old Town Transit Center north to UCSD and Westfield UTC.

Called the Mid-Coast Corridor Transit Project, the 11-mile trolley extension will serve eight stations along the route.

With the Federal Transit Administration’s approval to move the project into preliminary Engineering, it is officially in the pipeline and eligible to receive federal New Starts funding, according to a press release.
SANDAG Executive Director Gary Gallegos said, “We are advancing environmental and design efforts to deliver this project as fast as possible...”

http://www.lajollalight.com/2011/09/25/trolley-extension-takes-a-step-forward/

[HurricaneHugo]

I thought it was further along than that...

[kpexpress]

Has anyone seen the changes that have been made to 13th and Market? Looks a lot better. And what I hear is that 15th and Market (behind Albertson's) is coming up too.

[HurricaneHugo]

Interesting...CCDC says completion date of July 2013 for Leeding Edge (16th and G)

http://ccdc.com/scripts/gis/webportal/common/download.aspx?id=70

I can only hope so.

Imagine if we get Library Tower, Cosmopolitan Square, 15th and Island, 1st and Island, and this all built...

[HurricaneHugo]

Has anyone seen the changes that have been made to 13th and Market? Looks a lot better. And what I hear is that 15th and Market (behind Albertson's) is coming up too.

Not tall enough.

By 15th and Market do you mean this?

http://ccdc.com/scripts/gis/webportal/common/download.aspx?id=52

It says Market St between 14-15th streets.

[mello]

Wow Market seems to be popping off. Lets hope these break ground soon. And what are the cranes for East of City College right before the 5? Is that just an expansion of the school --

[Lipani]

Convention Center expansion clears first step
City Council approves method for raising $33 million annually
Written by Roger Showley

The $550 million expansion of the San Diego Convention Center took its first legal step forward Monday, when the City Council approved a method for raising most of the money needed for the first addition in 10 years.

The council voted 7-0, with Marti Emerald absent, to set in motion the creation of a special district and tax on local hotel owners.

"This vote is a critical step forward on an investment that will make San Diego much more competitive in the convention industry," said Mayor Jerry Sanders after the council acted.

If two-thirds of the owners approve the plan and other funding sources fall into place, supporters hope the facility can be open by 2016.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/oct/10/convention-center-expansion-clears-first-step/

[mongoXZ]

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/oct/13/east-village-developer-team-chosen-jeromes-furnitu/
East Village plan downtown's biggest undertaking since Petco Park
Potentially 3 million square feet worth $1 billion could be built in coming years; biggest thing since Petco
Jerry Navarra, chairman of Jerome's Furniture, has picked a team headed by Rob Lankford of Lankford & Associates for the multi-year effort that could result in nearly 3 million square feet of new residences, shops, hotels and office buildings tailored for high-tech design, innovation and education pursuits.
http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2011/10/12/navarra_image_1_t460.png?5b9ff86709102c19278f82a78c5bbb3c5b81acd3
http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2011/10/13/navarra_image_2_t460.png?5b9ff86709102c19278f82a78c5bbb3c5b81acd3
http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2011/10/13/navarra_image3_t460.png?5b9ff86709102c19278f82a78c5bbb3c5b81acd3
:):cheers:

[HurricaneHugo]

Imagine that with a new Chargers stadium to the south....lovely!

In other news, San Diego named luckiest city in the US!

(Reuters) - San Diego, which has been touted as having one of the best climates in the United States, is also the luckiest, according to a new ranking.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/13/us-usa-cities-lucky-idUSTRE79C5P520111013

[mello]

Did you guys see the headline article in the UT today saying that 10 to 20 elementary and middle schools in the city may be closed in the next two years? This is great news for infill development. San Diego is "overschooled" and consolidation is needed. So this is great news for efficiency and adding density to SD.

[OneMetropolis]

Did you guys see the headline article in the UT today saying that 10 to 20 elementary and middle schools in the city may be closed in the next two years? This is great news for infill development. San Diego is "overschooled" and consolidation is needed. So this is great news for efficiency and adding density to SD.

San Diego is overschooled? I went to high school here, and they hardly had enough room for their own students, because of how there isn't enough room for everyone within San Diego. So what the hell are you talking about?

[mello]

What I should have said is that "perhaps" San Diego is overschooled in certain wealthy coastal areas like Point Loma or in areas populated by young singles like Crown Point/Mission and Pacific Beach. So this could be a nice way to utilize coastal properties for infill developments.

Speaking of Mission Bay, I noticed there is a ton of vacant land West of I-5 along Sea World Drive. Does anyone know who owns that land and why prime coastal real estate is just sitting there?

This is what annoys me about San Diego, right in our core coastal area we have vacant land. This would never happen in Miami or LA, why do we waist property like that here?

[tyleraf]

Does anyone have any renderings of the Casa Mira View complex that is under-construction in Mira Mesa?

[Streamliner]

Does anyone have any renderings of the Casa Mira View complex that is under-construction in Mira Mesa?

Here's what I found:

http://www.gardencommunitiesca.com/casamiraview/images/CMV-photo-1.jpg

http://www.gardencommunitiesca.com/casamiraview/images/CMV-photo-2.jpg

http://www.gardencommunitiesca.com/casamiraview/images/CMV-photo-4.jpg

Images from the developer's website (http://www.gardencommunitiesca.com/welcome.htm):

[HurricaneHugo]

Quick picture I took of the Courthouse with my crappy camera phone

http://i.imgur.com/rzzYj.jpg

Looks decent but it's sad how tall it could have been :(

[kpexpress]

Tomorrow (Tuesday October 25) is the last day to go vote for your CCAC representatives (if you live downtown). Voting is from Noon to 6:30PM at three locations downtown (Downtown Information Center, Cafe Luna, and Basic Pizza). Take an ID and a utility bill showing your address and go vote.

[LosAngelesDreamin]

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/oct/13/east-village-developer-team-chosen-jeromes-furnitu/

:):cheers:

omg... i LOVE it!!! especially the Eurospace =] i really hope this pulls through.

[HurricaneHugo]

Tomorrow (Tuesday October 25) is the last day to go vote for your CCAC representatives (if you live downtown). Voting is from Noon to 6:30PM at three locations downtown (Downtown Information Center, Cafe Luna, and Basic Pizza). Take an ID and a utility bill showing your address and go vote.

Rub in it why don't you. :(

[HurricaneHugo]

Does anybody know why OWS is against spending 200 billion over 40 years on transportation projects? Seems that would create a lot of jobs...

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/oct/28/several-occupy-san-diego-protestors-arrested/

[tyleraf]

http://martinezcutri.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Campbell_Hotel_FULL_1.jpg
Has anyone heard of the Campbell Landing Hotel?

[mello]

^^ I remember it being a proposal from a long time ago. I think it is dead with this convention center expansion though. Where did you find that rendering?

[kpexpress]

Thoughts on 11th and Broadway????? It comes before predesign tomorrow.

http://www.ccdc.com/images/stories/downloads/meetings-and-events/event-calendar/2011/November_1_2011_CCAC_Pre_Design_Item_4_11th_and_Broadway_reduced.pdf

[HurricaneHugo]

Thoughts on 11th and Broadway????? It comes before predesign tomorrow.

http://www.ccdc.com/images/stories/downloads/meetings-and-events/event-calendar/2011/November_1_2011_CCAC_Pre_Design_Item_4_11th_and_Broadway_reduced.pdf

Like the design but needs to be taller and thinner

[TGBinSD]

Thoughts on 11th and Broadway????? It comes before predesign tomorrow.

http://www.ccdc.com/images/stories/downloads/meetings-and-events/event-calendar/2011/November_1_2011_CCAC_Pre_Design_Item_4_11th_and_Broadway_reduced.pdf

i think SD has enough twins or twin-like buildings. i'd like to see more diversity in architecture.

[ucsbgaucho]

This could be a huge positive to keeping the Chargers in San Diego... can anyone say, Los Angeles Vikings?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/01/vikings-stadium-proposal-suffers-serious-setback

[Derek]

This could be a huge positive to keeping the Chargers in San Diego... can anyone say, Los Angeles Vikings?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/01/vikings-stadium-proposal-suffers-serious-setback

I really hope so. :D



Even though I no longer live in San Diego, the Chargers need to stay there.



If they ever had an opportunity to move to Portland though I'd support that. :rolleyes: :jester:

[mello]

Agree about the twins concept, lets mix it up an bit. This project is a bit uninspiring and I would like to see the towers a bit thinner and taller. What is the height on those as they stand now?

About the Vikings moving to LA. Chargers wouldn't be totally out of the woods because there is a lot of talk about having one NFC and one AFC team in LA. So if the Vikings moved first, the Chargers could simply move in and be a "tenant" in the new stadium without selling a piece of the team.

[Derek]

Two teams in the same city is stupid. Shoot neither the Giants or the Jets play in New York. They should at least give Jersey some recognition. The New Jersey Jets has a nice ring to it. :P

[staplesla]

The California Coastal Commission voted unanimously Wednesday against the Navy’s redevelopment plans for its 16-acre waterfront property, concluding that it is no longer consistent with state coastal requirements.

The vote, taken at the commission's meeting in Oceanside, will further delay a project that has been in the works for two decades.

The Navy had earlier informed state coastal officials that it does not agree with that agency's findings. Commission staff said it expects the next step will be to either enter into mediation or file a new lawsuit against the Navy.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/02/coastal-commission-votes-down-navy-redevelopment-p/

[Derek]

The California Coastal Commission voted unanimously Wednesday against the Navy’s redevelopment plans for its 16-acre waterfront property, concluding that it is no longer consistent with state coastal requirements.

The vote, taken at the commission's meeting in Oceanside, will further delay a project that has been in the works for two decades.

The Navy had earlier informed state coastal officials that it does not agree with that agency's findings. Commission staff said it expects the next step will be to either enter into mediation or file a new lawsuit against the Navy.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/02/coastal-commission-votes-down-navy-redevelopment-p/

Does this surprise anybody?

[eburress]

Does this surprise anybody?

It's a wonder how anything at all happens here. It's no wonder businesses can't wait to leave...too bad for the Navy they're stuck here!

[mongoXZ]

The proposal by Manchester isn't worthy of that location. That bayfront 16 acre parcel is arguably one of the most desired spaces for urban development in the entire country and that's the best they can do? A bunch of bland rectangles and squares.

If there was a place to put something iconic for San Diego then this is no doubt the best place for that. Aside from the potential jobs being delayed, maybe it's a good thing it was rejected. It needs to get done right! This proposal just screams "We are San Diego! We are mediocre!"
http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2011/10/21/pacific_gateway_2007_image.jpg_r620x349.bmp?75d51d0aea2efce5189afce216053cbc530c46a8
http://www.signonsandiego.com/

Manchester is the absolute worst bunch to put in charge of this project. They gave us the uninspiring Hilton and French Chateau Tower (Hyatt). Just put me at the helm of this project and I can draw something up more creative and fitting for that location in a couple hours.:yes:

[LosAngelesDreamin]

The proposal by Manchester isn't worthy of that location. That bayfront 16 acre parcel is arguably one of the most desired spaces for urban development in the entire country and that's the best they can do? A bunch of bland rectangles and squares.

If there was a place to put something iconic for San Diego then this is no doubt the best place for that. Aside from the potential jobs being delayed, maybe it's a good thing it was rejected. It needs to get done right! This proposal just screams "We are San Diego! We are mediocre!"
http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2011/10/21/pacific_gateway_2007_image.jpg_r620x349.bmp?75d51d0aea2efce5189afce216053cbc530c46a8
http://www.signonsandiego.com/

Manchester is the absolute worst bunch to put in charge of this project. They gave us the uninspiring Hilton and French Chateau Tower (Hyatt). Just put me at the helm of this project and I can draw something up more creative and fitting for that location in a couple hours.:yes:

What do you expect in san diego?? something like in dubai??

[HurricaneHugo]

Hey I like the French Chateau Tower...

[Miklo Velka]

The proposal by Manchester isn't worthy of that location. That bayfront 16 acre parcel is arguably one of the most desired spaces for urban development in the entire country and that's the best they can do? A bunch of bland rectangles and squares.

Agreed. It lacks originality. A space like that on the waterfront should not be wasted, we need some nice, original design and modern.

[Derek]

Agreed. It lacks originality. A space like that on the waterfront should not be wasted, we need some nice, original design and modern.

Which is never going to happen, no matter how hard anyone tries. ;)

[kpexpress]

Which is never going to happen, no matter how hard anyone tries. ;)

We need a Bilbao effect on the waterfront, and not Gehry. I say open a huge international competition and invite progressive firms to bring a big idea to the waterfront - BIG.dk

[Derek]

We need a Bilbao effect on the waterfront, and not Gehry. I say open a huge international competition and invite progressive firms to bring a big idea to the waterfront - BIG.dk

Even then, what ever anybody comes up with is going to have a hard time getting approved. :P

[LosAngelesDreamin]

Even then, what ever anybody comes up with is going to have a hard time getting approved. :P

Cause San Diego is so damn picky lol.. no matter what they offer to san diego you're gonna have people who like it and some who don't.. you can never have something that everyone will like or love .. sooner or later developers are just gonna be like fuck it.. if you guys keep up with the "ew i don't like that i want this!!" "no give me something better i want more!!" "no thats too much give me something less!!" "no no no your all fucked up.. thats not enough!!"

WTF DO YOU WANT?!?!?! :tantrum: you're like bratty lil children!!

:)

[kpexpress]

Cause San Diego is so damn picky lol.. no matter what they offer to san diego you're gonna have people who like it and some who don't.. you can never have something that everyone will like or love .. sooner or later developers are just gonna be like fuck it.. if you guys keep up with the "ew i don't like that i want this!!" "no give me something better i want more!!" "no thats too much give me something less!!" "no no no your all fucked up.. thats not enough!!"

WTF DO YOU WANT?!?!?! :tantrum: you're like bratty lil children!!

:)

One quick look at what has been built in this city it's difficult to say that people 'are so damn picky'.

[eburress]

One quick look at what has been built in this city it's difficult to say that people 'are so damn picky'.

hahaha - that's just what I was thinking! It's not like this city is packed with world-class architecture. I'd be delighted if SD got something like Manchester's proposal because based on what's downtown now, I am afraid the reality is going to be so much worse.

[Dale]

They're bouncing off the walls, in Austin, over the convention hotel Manchester has planned for there.

[mello]

They're bouncing off the walls, in Austin, over the convention hotel Manchester has planned for there.

Is that a positive reaction? This NBC thing is a tough call while I agree that the current proposal is very bland I think that if we wait to try and come up with a project that pleases everyone (or more than 50%) something may never be built.

So here we are with Lane Field still with no start date and NBC delayed indefinitely I think we run the risk of having parking lots sitting at the waterfront for decades to come if we don't get going soon. The economy isn't going to get any better so we might as well put some shovels in the dirt now.

[Dale]

Is that a positive reaction? This NBC thing is a tough call while I agree that the current proposal is very bland I think that if we wait to try and come up with a project that pleases everyone (or more than 50%) something may never be built.

So here we are with Lane Field still with no start date and NBC delayed indefinitely I think we run the risk of having parking lots sitting at the waterfront for decades to come if we don't get going soon. The economy isn't going to get any better so we might as well put some shovels in the dirt now.

Positive, ecstasy bordering on gibberishness.

Re: Lane Field, first time I visited San Diego was in 1990. And at that time the redevelopment of Lane Field was in the 'advanced planning stage.'

[TGBinSD]

They're bouncing off the walls, in Austin, over the convention hotel Manchester has planned for there.

They were bouncing off the walls (in a positive way) when the first proposal was made public. It was a beautiful, tall building that most architecture enthusiasts were proud of, even for those who are very picky in Austin. However, word is that the proposal had since been shortened (because of an addition of a helipad) and the spire was cut out. So along with the changes, and Manchester's homophobic past, many people aren't bouncing any longer.

[TGBinSD]

We need a Bilbao effect on the waterfront, and not Gehry. I say open a huge international competition and invite progressive firms to bring a big idea to the waterfront - BIG.dk

It would be great to get some better architecture on that parcel-bring on the competition! I think the proposal is okay, but not worthy of that particular parcel on the waterfront. It's deserving of something much better, and something more inspiring.

[TGBinSD]

http://www.statesman.com/business/san-diego-developer-plans-50-story-hotel-east-1561221.html?cxtype=rss_business (http://www.statesman.com/business/san-diego-developer-plans-50-story-hotel-east-1561221.html?cxtype=rss_business)

here's the link to manchester's original hotel proposal in austin if interested...

[HurricaneHugo]

Seriously though, get something approved quick cuz we need the jobs...

I just lost my job...anybody need a Civil Engineer/Urban Planning intern? :(

[Streamliner]

We need a Bilbao effect on the waterfront, and not Gehry. I say open a huge international competition and invite progressive firms to bring a big idea to the waterfront - BIG.dk

Speaking of Bilbao, the Midway Museum is set to display their proposal for a public plaza on the Navy Pier (where their parking lot sits). Read the article for more details, but they did describe it this way:
It would double as a public plaza and, as with the acclaimed Bilbao Museum in Spain, use “the power of an architectural feature to capture the imagination of the world and to define a city,”

Article link:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/03/navy-pier-if-not-navy-broadway-complex-moving-forw/

Sketch of design found in article:

http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2011/11/03/the_bridge-navy_pier_idea_t593.bmp?f53c1bb70f629018cec0bd6246c82dae770b93ac

Hopefully we'll get more info on Tuesday

[HurricaneHugo]

WINGS OF FREEDOM!

http://64.19.142.13/media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2011/11/08/navypier-overview_r300x179.jpg?6d3b6074649958b82684686e8fa30dc3cba69a25

[staplesla]

The City Council Tuesday unanimously approved a plan to renovate St. Paul's Cathedral north of downtown and build two mixed-use towers on adjacent land.

The 1.76-acre property at 2728 Sixth Ave. -- across from the west side of Balboa Park -- is home to the administrative offices of the Episcopal Diocese of San Diego and its primary house of worship, which was built in 1928.

The two towers will contain 110 condominium units, and 20,000 square feet of office and program space for the diocese. A 16-unit apartment complex more than 70 years old will be demolished.

http://www.10news.com/news/29717385/detail.html

[staplesla]

Midway aircraft carrier museum proposes $68 million plan with 500-foot-high sail-like structures; critcs say views will be blocked

Sydney has its opera house, St. Louis its arch and Paris, the Eiffel Tower.

San Diego can match those iconic images with "Wings of Freedom," a 500-foot-high sculpture shaped like sails or wings on the downtown waterfront, the San Diego Unified Port District was told Tuesday.

The Midway aircraft carrier museum proposed the concept as part of a $68 million development, called "Veterans Park," on the adjacent Navy Pier:


A 500-space parking lot;
A 5-acre park on a deck 12 to 20 feet above the lot;
A permanent home for the San Diego Symphony's Summer Pops concerts with capacity for 6,000 attendees, plus public restrooms; and,
The "Wings of Freedom" sails flanking the pops amphitheater.


http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/08/skyscraper-sized-wings-sculpture-proposed-navy-pie/

http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2011/11/08/navypier-overview_t593.jpg?f53c1bb70f629018cec0bd6246c82dae770b93ac
http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2011/11/08/alternate_without_titanium_t593.bmp?f53c1bb70f629018cec0bd6246c82dae770b93ac

[Derek]

Midway aircraft carrier museum proposes $68 million plan with 500-foot-high sail-like structures; critcs say views will be blocked

Sydney has its opera house, St. Louis its arch and Paris, the Eiffel Tower.

San Diego can match those iconic images with "Wings of Freedom," a 500-foot-high sculpture shaped like sails or wings on the downtown waterfront, the San Diego Unified Port District was told Tuesday.

The Midway aircraft carrier museum proposed the concept as part of a $68 million development, called "Veterans Park," on the adjacent Navy Pier:


A 500-space parking lot;
A 5-acre park on a deck 12 to 20 feet above the lot;
A permanent home for the San Diego Symphony's Summer Pops concerts with capacity for 6,000 attendees, plus public restrooms; and,
The "Wings of Freedom" sails flanking the pops amphitheater.


http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/08/skyscraper-sized-wings-sculpture-proposed-navy-pie/

http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2011/11/08/navypier-overview_t593.jpg?f53c1bb70f629018cec0bd6246c82dae770b93ac


Ok. I laughed pretty hard at the picture. I'm all for some kind of statue or "iconic" structure. But 500 foot "sails"? :jester:

[tyleraf]

Please if you build this project just build one! The two look completely wierd. Otherwise I think this could be interesting.

[mongoXZ]

The article also posted an alternate version which I feel is better, more pleasing to the eye and less obtrusive to the views. They may have something here. Perhaps tweek the design a bit and add a observation booth on the top.:hmmm:

http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2011/11/08/alternate_without_titanium_t593.bmp?f53c1bb70f629018cec0bd6246c82dae770b93ac
signonsandiego.com

But please don't call it "Wings of Freedom" :haha:

[tyleraf]

Wow the alternate design would be MUCH better! It would totally modernize the waterfront. Build these and have Calatrava design the new NBC and we would have a world class waterfront.

[HurricaneHugo]

Reminds me of this:

http://64.19.142.13/www.galinsky.com/buildings/milwaukeeart/mam4.jpg

I agree, it needs an observation deck!

Maybe just clear glass on top of the alternate version?

[Streamliner]

Until I see better/more detailed renderings of the initial proposal, I like the alternate better.

Looking at the full proposal pdf:
http://media.signonsandiego.com/news/documents/2011/11/08/navy-pier-11.2011Presentation.pdf

You see one more rendering viewed as if on a boat in the bay. From this perspective, they will definitely pop out of the skyline. I also noticed that the section of the park nearest downtown is supposed to resemble a waving American flag. That and calling the sculpture Wings of Freedom is a bit much.

But other than that I kinda like it!

[patriotizzy]

This is a great proposal. We need more modern "monuments" in our cities these days. Although something bigger and better, sort of like the St. Louis Arch, would be a lot nicer.

[eburress]

High speed rail is still kicking arse in California! It's one hit after another. hahaha

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/weblogs/news-ticker/2011/nov/09/cost-doubles-on-high-speed-rail/#.Trr3-IMhNLg.facebook

People need to give up on this monumental waste of money. Like others have stated, the cost/benefit ratio is so thoroughly out-of-whack with this thing.

[eburress]

The article also posted an alternate version which I feel is better, more pleasing to the eye and less obtrusive to the views. They may have something here. Perhaps tweek the design a bit and add a observation booth on the top.:hmmm:

http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2011/11/08/alternate_without_titanium_t593.bmp?f53c1bb70f629018cec0bd6246c82dae770b93ac
signonsandiego.com

But please don't call it "Wings of Freedom" :haha:

I like it too. I will PUKE if they call it "Wings of Freedom" though!!!!! :yuck:

[eburress]

High speed rail is broken in China too!

http://www.echinacities.com/aroundtown/china-in-pulse/chinese-academy-of-sciences-high-speed-rail-construction.html

[LosAngelesDreamin]

One quick look at what has been built in this city it's difficult to say that people 'are so damn picky'.

lol i know 8]

[LosAngelesDreamin]

Is that a positive reaction? This NBC thing is a tough call while I agree that the current proposal is very bland I think that if we wait to try and come up with a project that pleases everyone (or more than 50%) something may never be built.

So here we are with Lane Field still with no start date and NBC delayed indefinitely I think we run the risk of having parking lots sitting at the waterfront for decades to come if we don't get going soon. The economy isn't going to get any better so we might as well put some shovels in the dirt now.

seriously... you, me and people complaining about design are prolly be dead by the time they even start breaking ground.

[staplesla]

Seaport Village, the bayside shopping center celebrating its 30th anniversary next year, looks to add an 82-room hotel, create 30 percent more space and demonstrate that "green redevelopment" works.

Terramar Retail Centers, owner of the 12.8-acre property at the foot of Pacific Highway, proposes to demolish the east side, remodel the west side, simplify the architectural theme and attract new national name brands to the collection of local mom-and-pop shops that cater to tourists.

"Keep in mind it's just a concept," Alex Liftis, senior vice president, told the San Diego Unified Port District board this week. "Some of these things are just ideas."

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/09/hotel-proposed-seaport-village/

http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2011/11/09/Spanish_steps_rendering_for_newspaper_t620.jpg?3ba288e077780dca5879b70fc3e0b2d025cf5799

[bmfarley]

High speed rail is still kicking arse in California! It's one hit after another. hahaha

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/weblogs/news-ticker/2011/nov/09/cost-doubles-on-high-speed-rail/#.Trr3-IMhNLg.facebook

People need to give up on this monumental waste of money. Like others have stated, the cost/benefit ratio is so thoroughly out-of-whack with this thing.

The cost of doing nothing is not nothing. Demand to travel in this state will grow proportionally with the population, yet, where is the land and money for freeway expansions? Which, would require three times teh cost and three times the footprint. Actually, it is silly to think that roadways and more parking structures make any sense at all.

[bmfarley]

The article also posted an alternate version which I feel is better, more pleasing to the eye and less obtrusive to the views. They may have something here. Perhaps tweek the design a bit and add a observation booth on the top.:hmmm:

http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2011/11/08/alternate_without_titanium_t593.bmp?f53c1bb70f629018cec0bd6246c82dae770b93ac
signonsandiego.com

But please don't call it "Wings of Freedom" :haha:



Looks nice. Personally, I have visions of an Arc de Triumph type building in Balboa Park at Laural Drive and Balboa... immediately east of 6th Street. Call it, "The Arc of Tolerance"

[SDfan]

Just watch, the double deck parking will turn into single level meters, the amphitheater into a circle of benches, and the monument into a 30ft pencil, designed to maintain the "view." This city's citizens are way to simpleton to let this go through.

[LosAngelesDreamin]

The cost of doing nothing is not nothing. Demand to travel in this state will grow proportionally with the population, yet, where is the land and money for freeway expansions? Which, would require three times teh cost and three times the footprint. Actually, it is silly to think that roadways and more parking structures make any sense at all.

I completely agree... it would cost more to expand highways, more parking, more plane runways and more airport gates.. than to build the bullet train. how many major airports do we have in CA??? haha that is a lot...not only LAX and SFO but also Sac, SJ and SD. I don't even wanna start with the freeways... think of all that expanding AND repairing of CA's extensive highway system.

Right now i believe it was around $170billion for all those expansions and only around $98billion for bullet train.

PLUS the high speed train is more environmentally friendly. using less energy to transport people. and its proven to be one of the safest transportation methods in the world... yes trains can derail... but far far less than how many car accidents happen everyday and waiting time is shorter than airports.

[eburress]

HSR isn't going to do away with the need for airports or freeways.

[Virtual Urban Vision]

Conversely, airports and highways can't do away the need for High Speed Rail and the cost of expanding their capacity exceeds the cost of building HSR.

[Zorak]

I completely agree... it would cost more to expand highways, more parking, more plane runways and more airport gates.. than to build the bullet train. how many major airports do we have in CA??? haha that is a lot...not only LAX and SFO but also Sac, SJ and SD. I don't even wanna start with the freeways... think of all that expanding AND repairing of CA's extensive highway system.

Right now i believe it was around $170billion for all those expansions and only around $98billion for bullet train.

PLUS the high speed train is more environmentally friendly. using less energy to transport people. and its proven to be one of the safest transportation methods in the world... yes trains can derail... but far far less than how many car accidents happen everyday and waiting time is shorter than airports.

If I understand the published materials correctly, the $98 billion only pays for the San Francisco - Anaheim segment (construction of which is broken into 4 phases) and would not be completed until 2030. I also read the $170 Billion for freeway and airport expansion was an estimate put out by the CHSRA, hardly an impartial source in this context.

I voted for HSR but that was based on proponents saying it would only cost $33 billion for the entire system. We've blown way past that.

[bmfarley]

I completely agree... it would cost more to expand highways, more parking, more plane runways and more airport gates.. than to build the bullet train. how many major airports do we have in CA??? haha that is a lot...not only LAX and SFO but also Sac, SJ and SD. I don't even wanna start with the freeways... think of all that expanding AND repairing of CA's extensive highway system.

Right now i believe it was around $170billion for all those expansions and only around $98billion for bullet train.

PLUS the high speed train is more environmentally friendly. using less energy to transport people. and its proven to be one of the safest transportation methods in the world... yes trains can derail... but far far less than how many car accidents happen everyday and waiting time is shorter than airports.
Good points. More people need to realize this.

Personally, I don't think ribbons of concrete for freeway is the way to go. I also don't want to see downtown San Diego become a car park.

[eburress]

Good points. More people need to realize this.

Personally, I don't think ribbons of concrete for freeway is the way to go. I also don't want to see downtown San Diego become a car park.

And you think that HSR is going to influence that in ANY way?

[bmfarley]

And you think that HSR is going to influence that in ANY way?

I think society has largely moved on. Admittedly, San Diego and Orange County havent turned the corner yet it would seem.

[mello]

Wow a sudden flurry of activity on the San Diego page. Where do I begin, towers on 6th Ave, Seaport Village Hotel, Navy Pier proposals, HSR debate....

Great to see some density going in the Southern Portion of Bankers Hill jet noise be damned I still think there is good potential there. Of course a street car up Fifth would really help.

Seaport Village is in dire need of a redo so I applaud that proposal and lets get that Police Headquarters project moving please... Seems to really be lagging.

I'm down with the wings as long as they use really good materials, would like to see some more detailed renderings though. And I really don't know enough about HSR to weigh in on the debate I just don't see it getting built with the global economy set to go in to the shitter again very soon and costs ballooning combined with California NIMBYism and regulations/lawsuits...

[HurricaneHugo]

For those who don't think HSR will help with air traffic...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrid%E2%80%93Barcelona_high-speed_rail_line

It was forecast that the AVE will substantially replace air traffic on the Barcelona - Madrid route (in the same way that the Eurostar has on the London-Paris/London-Brussels routes and France's TGV has on the Paris-Lyon route). In fact, more than 80% of travellers between Madrid and Seville use the AVE, with fewer than 20% travelling by air.[4] The route Madrid-Barcelona was in 2007 the world's busiest passenger air route with 971 scheduled flights per week (both directions). In order to compete with each other RENFE has made, and Iberia will make, changes to their fare structures, as well as changing services; Iberia plans to use smaller planes which will leave as soon as full, and a non-stop AVE service is available between the two cities.

[202_Cyclist]

HurricaneHugo:
For those who don't think HSR will help with air traffic...

Of more relevance here in CA:
1) A report, "Expect Delays: An Analysis of Air Travel Trends in the United States," by Brookings notes that almost half of all flights in 2009 were distances less by 500 miles. The second biggest origin/destination pair in the US is SF - LA. http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Files/rc/reports/2009/1008_air_travel_tomer_puentes/1008_air_travel_report.pdf

2) SH&E, a very well respected transportation consulting firm, estimates that 12% of passengers at San jose, 9% at Oakland, and 4% of passengers at SFO will switch to high speed rail, a total of 6M annual passengers. http://www.thetransitcoalition.us/newspdf/sjmn20100224b.pdf

3) SFO is the second-most delayed airport in the US from Jan - Aug. 2011. http://www.bts.gov/programs/airline_information/airline_ontime_tables/2011_08/html/table_04.html

4) SAN has a single runway and may be capacity constrained in coming decades. http://www.aci-na.org/static/conferences/images/Commiss%20Conf/Steve%20Van%20Beek.pdf

5) High speed rail can actually improve aviation by expanding the catchment area for airports, especially SFO. This airport would be an hour (or less) from Fresno and other Central Valley cities. http://www.aerlines.nl/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/49_Terpstra_HST_AMS_BRU-1.pdf

For those who are interested, there is an excellent Airport Cooperative Research Program (ACRP) report about the ability high speed rail to alleviate aviation capacity and delay issues in the coastal megaregions: http://www.njtransit.com/pdf/acrp_rpt_031.pdf

[202_Cyclist]

It is also worth noting that high speed rail will be valuable for intra-city travel if there is high or volatile oil prices. When oil was $145 per barrel in 2008, airlines were quickly cutting capacity and charging fuel surcharges of $20-$30. Just this week, the IAEA announced that Iran is much closer to developing nuclear weapons than previously estimated. If there is a Middle Eastern war involving Iran and Israel or Iran and its Arab neighbors, oil could quickly rise to $150 - $175 per barrel. It would be nice to have options for intra-city travel in CA (and other corridors in the US) that don't put us at the mercy of petro-dictators hostile to the US>

[austin242]

The point is sometimes you have to spend money for the future. If its 100 billion now it will be 1 trillion in the future. In the future people will see it as a good investment if you keep the lines up and running. Things that need to be done shoudln't have to worry about the price ($) it will take to get them done but what is at stake if its not done. If its not done traffic will be higher on roads and there really is only so much roads you can build till enough is enough. Same with airports. California's real problem is overpopulation which no one has the balls to adress anywhere in the world except china. Yah I said it. :tup:

[mello]

It is also worth noting that high speed rail will be valuable for intra-city travel if there is high or volatile oil prices. When oil was $145 per barrel in 2008, airlines were quickly cutting capacity and charging fuel surcharges of $20-$30. Just this week, the IAEA announced that Iran is much closer to developing nuclear weapons than previously estimated. If there is a Middle Eastern war involving Iran and Israel or Iran and its Arab neighbors, oil could quickly rise to $150 - $175 per barrel. It would be nice to have options for intra-city travel in CA (and other corridors in the US) that don't put us at the mercy of petro-dictators hostile to the US>

Good thinking but a conflict with Iran is probably going to happen in the next 2 years. HSR won't be finished until 2025 or 2030. The impact to the world economy of the Strait of Hormuz being shut off will be astounding and oil will probably skyrocket to $250 to $300 a barrel. Unfortunately HSR will not arrive in time to help out with the result of an Iran conflict and the massive global inflation that would ensue. :(

[LosAngelesDreamin]

If I understand the published materials correctly, the $98 billion only pays for the San Francisco - Anaheim segment (construction of which is broken into 4 phases) and would not be completed until 2030. I also read the $170 Billion for freeway and airport expansion was an estimate put out by the CHSRA, hardly an impartial source in this context.

I voted for HSR but that was based on proponents saying it would only cost $33 billion for the entire system. We've blown way past that.

yea SF-Anaheim correct.. i didn't mean 98B for the completed Sac-SD.... and even if 170B isn't the precise amount... it would still be over 100B

[bmfarley]

yea SF-Anaheim correct.. i didn't mean 98B for the completed Sac-SD.... and even if 170B isn't the precise amount... it would still be over 100B

$98 billion = Year of Expenditure
$65 billion = 2010 dollars

Assumed is a 3% annual increase in cost of construction. That might be overly aggressive.

[laguna]

The point is sometimes you have to spend money for the future. If its 100 billion now it will be 1 trillion in the future. In the future people will see it as a good investment if you keep the lines up and running. Things that need to be done shoudln't have to worry about the price ($) it will take to get them done but what is at stake if its not done. If its not done traffic will be higher on roads and there really is only so much roads you can build till enough is enough. Same with airports. California's real problem is overpopulation which no one has the balls to adress anywhere in the world except china. Yah I said it. :tup:

most would agree that your mother should have visited Planned Parenthood-now I said it.

[twrb]

Really? This giant piece of art (junk) sitting smack in the middle of the downtown waterfront, completely discordant with the landscape and serving no purpose other that (further) junking up the view, is going to draw people like the Eiffel Tower or the St. Louis arch? LOL.

Kinda like people will want to fly to SD to see this "iconic" piece of junk:

http://art.san.org/pub_art/legacy/galleries/at_the_gate_gallery.aspx?dir=/images/collections/legacy/at_the_gate/large/

?

Midway aircraft carrier museum proposes $68 million plan with 500-foot-high sail-like structures; critcs say views will be blocked

Sydney has its opera house, St. Louis its arch and Paris, the Eiffel Tower.

San Diego can match those iconic images with "Wings of Freedom," a 500-foot-high sculpture shaped like sails or wings on the downtown waterfront, the San Diego Unified Port District was told Tuesday.

The Midway aircraft carrier museum proposed the concept as part of a $68 million development, called "Veterans Park," on the adjacent Navy Pier:


A 500-space parking lot;
A 5-acre park on a deck 12 to 20 feet above the lot;
A permanent home for the San Diego Symphony's Summer Pops concerts with capacity for 6,000 attendees, plus public restrooms; and,
The "Wings of Freedom" sails flanking the pops amphitheater.


http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/08/skyscraper-sized-wings-sculpture-proposed-navy-pie/

http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2011/11/08/navypier-overview_t593.jpg?f53c1bb70f629018cec0bd6246c82dae770b93ac
http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2011/11/08/alternate_without_titanium_t593.bmp?f53c1bb70f629018cec0bd6246c82dae770b93ac