[<ak/>]

some updates on the bridge situation:
http://www.ccdc.com/resources/resource_files/2007_Harbor_Pedestrian_Bridge.pdf

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j220/klepika/dt/hdpb2.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j220/klepika/dt/hdpb1.jpg

[Derek]

i cant wait for that thing to get underway:tup:

[Urban Sky]

With regard to land use, I've heard from a legitimate source that the FAA has no power what-so-ever. The FAA is merely an advisory board. The city really does have the ultimate say so. The FAA only has two options in any situation. 1) Close the airport, or 2) Work around the problem. Since the city approved these buildings already, the only way these 2 floors will ever come down is with a city mandate. If that happens, the city will owe Sunroad a hell of a lot of money for their fuck-up. I don't know if any of you know, but there are two more towers scheduled to start construction there. This is the shortest one. They are to be 12, 14, and 16 floors. I believe the others are on the opposite side of the 12 floor tower in relation to the airport, so they may be ok, but I'm not sure.

At least they havent started construction on the other two yet.

That's interesting info on the FAA. For some reason I thought they had more say because of set height restrictions and all. The city really screwed this one up and now they are trying to make it seem like the builder is the one in the wrong when all theyve done is keep it legal. I heard a representative from the Pilots Association saying (on the news) that they are working with the FAA on this one and for now have informed pilots about the building (as if they hadn't noticed it) and told them to "fly around it". I thought that was a funny statement. You can even see that in the picture I posted with the news story, the building isn't even in the flight path.

Anyway, it's good news that the FAA isn't the Iron Fist I thought they were. That means the city better get crackin on raising those height restrictions in east village (at least)!

[eburress]

first of all, i called her crypt keeper above and you tisk-tisked me for it. next, i thought you liked donna frye. and last...shes never going to win an election. so weve got nothing to worry about there.

but :haha: re: the highway miles comment

Oh you did? I totally missed it!! hahaha I didn't mean to steal your stuff! :)

[Urban Sky]

Oh you did? I totally missed it!! hahaha I didn't mean to steal your stuff! :)

no no, i dont mind. i just thought you liked Donna Frye..thats why i said something.

[Derek]

Anyway, it's good news that the FAA isn't the Iron Fist I thought they were. That means the city better get crackin on raising those height restrictions in east village (at least)!

at least someone agrees;)

[eburress]

It's exciting to think that other buildings might soon go up in that Kearny Mesa area. Outside of a few small pockets, there's not much height in SD, but it's nice to see that might change.

[Derek]

^we need more in Mission Valley!! id love to see more highrises there!

[eburress]

^we need more in Mission Valley!! id love to see more highrises there!

I guess that would be OK, but since stuff can't be taller than the valley's rim, it makes me wonder what's the point. hahaha

[Derek]

^id sacrifice density for height in that neighborhood anyday;)

[HurricaneHugo]

how tall is the valleys rim anyways?

[Urban Sky]

how tall is the valleys rim anyways?

its about 380 feet ASL on both sides where most of the highrises are. the valley floor is 50ft above sea level so that would make the maximum building height approx. 330ft. thats still a good sized tower.

ive never heard that rule before. where did you hear that the buildings had to be below the rim?

[Urban Sky]

^id sacrifice density for height in that neighborhood anyday;)

id rather see any and all highrises built downtown. in fact, id like to transplant some of the cool ones from mission valley and sorrento mesa to downtown.

[eburress]

its about 380 feet ASL on both sides where most of the highrises are. the valley floor is 50ft above sea level so that would make the maximum building height approx. 330ft. thats still a good sized tower.

ive never heard that rule before. where did you hear that the buildings had to be below the rim?

This came up sometime last year when some of us wondered why CalTrans didn't use some kind of suspension bridge for I-805 where it intersects with I-8. Besides the obvious cost issues, somebody said that there was an ordinance (or something along those lines) that limited the height of structures in Mission Valley.

[Derek]

id rather see any and all highrises built downtown. in fact, id like to transplant some of the cool ones from mission valley and sorrento mesa to downtown.

i gotta disagree, i think diversity is good, but i do agree with focusing highrise construction downtown

[Derek]

oops! i made a typo...i meant to say id sacrifice height for density in that neighborhood anyday;)




:(

[VA_Gentleman]

Man, you guys have a heck of a boom. I'm amazed at how many condo buildings are going up. That will make for a more lively city instead of just commuters. Any idea of the percentages of construction for office to retail to residential?

[Derek]

^i wish

but thank you for the attention;)

[Urban Sky]

i gotta disagree, i think diversity is good, but i do agree with focusing highrise construction downtown

well, when our downtown is as built up and diverse as it needs to be or could be, then sure, id be willing to give up highrises to other areas. but right now, there is plenty of room to expand. i would love to see several different neighborhoods develop and thrive independently of each other.

[Derek]

^i see...


then yes, i agree;)

[Urban Sky]

Man, you guys have a heck of a boom. I'm amazed at how many condo buildings are going up. That will make for a more lively city instead of just commuters. Any idea of the percentages of construction for office to retail to residential?

This is just a guess, but I would say that Residential dominates about 70% of downtown construction at this time. Outside of downtown, high-rise development is almost 90-100% commercial. If you read some of the discussions above, you will see that unfortunately demand still needs to be created for commercial office space in the CBD. There are several Hotels going up and most all the buildings have some type of ground level retail. I hope that answers your question. :)

[Derek]

damn the Padres game is so good tonight!

[Urban Sky]

whens opening night down here? the 6th?

[Derek]

Friday (April 6th yep:))

[spoonman]

It's exciting to think that other buildings might soon go up in that Kearny Mesa area. Outside of a few small pockets, there's not much height in SD, but it's nice to see that might change.


Sorry, but I think there is a lot more than it sounds like you might be giving credit for. Think of Sorrento Valley (now including the new Qualcomm complex...which is a fancy green building too), UTC, University Heights, Mission Valley and the Balboa Park/163 Corridor. Coronado even has condo towers by the Hotel Del. Del Mar Heights has had success building mid-rise offices and I wouldn't be suprised to see a highrise or two there in the not too distant future.

[spoonman]

Just wanted to throw it out there^^^

[spoonman]

Anyone else think they're addicted to SSP?

[Derek]

^dude, i just had 500 posts docked for whore posting, yes i am addicted;)

[spoonman]

If we can develop a 12-Step program for SSP, we'll be rich:upload_71700:

[Urban Sky]

id say the majority of those are mid-rises...few high rises. nothing in downtown is even over 500 feet...so outside? im guessing 300 tops, if that.

[spoonman]

I have to whore post sometimes to keep the individual project threads alive. They always need help. For whatever reason, we don't have a lot of San Diego SSP members. I think if there was snow in San Diego we'd see more of that type of thing.

[Derek]

La Jolla is pushing 400 feet...

[Derek]

I have to whore post sometimes to keep the individual project threads alive. They always need help. For whatever reason, we don't have a lot of San Diego SSP members. I think if there was snow in San Diego we'd see more of that type of thing.

yes, snow would...definitly solve that:koko:



:jester:

[spoonman]

Seriously though, I bet Buffalo has more regular members than San Diego...

[sandiego_urban]

What the hell has happened in here? How did you all get so chatty in just a couple of days? I guess the only way to keep up-to-date in here is to check in everyday...not necessarily a bad thing :)


Here's an interesting article from this week's SD Business Journal regarding the 7th & Market proposal. This condo/apartment/hotel will have 638 units, so chances are favorable for a fairly tall tower. I believe this project is the empty lot in between The Mark and Alta.


Redevelopment Arm OKs Proposal for Historic Block on Market Street

African American District Was Once Called Harlem of the West

By JESSICA LONG
San Diego Business Journal Staff


A downtown city block once slated to become little more than another reinforced-concrete parking lot may soon host apartments, condos, a hotel and a police substation, as well as public art and retail space.

A committee of the Centre City Development Corp. voted March 26 to accept a proposal by the joint venture of Related/City Link Investment to develop the 55,000-square-foot block bounded by Seventh Avenue on the west, Market Street on the north, Eighth Avenue on the east and Island Avenue on the south.

Related LP is based in New York, while City Link Investment Corp. is based in downtown San Diego.

On March 28, the full CCDC board approved an exclusive negotiation agreement with Related/City Link that paves the way for the two to discuss finances.

In Related/City Link’s proposal, total development costs for developing the block are listed at $298 million.

“It’s envisioned to be a fairly extensive mixed-use project,” said John Collum, senior project manager with the Centre City Development Corp., the city’s planning and redevelopment agency that oversees downtown redevelopment projects.

CCDC owns the block, excluding a privately owned, 56-room hotel designated a historic landmark because of its relationship with African Americans who visited the city.

The venerable Clermont Hotel, once advertised as “a hotel for colored people,” was built in 1887.

The history of the property is expected to play a big role in the redevelopment project, which may include public art or some other kind of homage to an area dubbed the Harlem of the West in the 1920s.

In its proposal to CCDC, Related/City Link proposed a project that was roughly 1 percent police storefront and cultural space, 2 percent retail/restaurant, 21 percent condos, 35 percent hotel and 41 percent apartments.

The proposed hotel would feature 220 rooms, according to city documents that have been filed with CCDC.

The overall project would include 418 apartments and condos, with the average size being 753 square feet.

About 20 percent of the units would be considered affordable housing, and offered to residents with lower incomes.

Representatives for Related/City Link were unavailable to give details of their proposal.

According to Derek Danziger, communications director for CCDC, the process of selecting a developer for Seventh and Market began several months ago.

Related/City Link was among seven original proposal submitters, a pool that was later whittled to three, then two and, finally, just one last week.

“Basically, our board said we had a much greater opportunity to do more,” Danziger said. “Parking will still be an essential element, but now there’s room to develop other things.”

[spoonman]

I put myself on the Google Map yesterday...that's when you know you're in trouble

[Derek]

yo SD urban...im gunna post your pics from SSC aight?

[Derek]

Some new stuff -


14th & K St
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/14thK.jpg

Design approval was granted for 14th & K St, a 7, 11, and 23-story (65’ – 236’) residential tower located on the block bounded by J St, K St, 13th, and 14th. When completed, the 222-unit building will have ten shopkeepers, 27 studios, 104 one- bedroom, and 81 two-bedroom condominiums; 318 spaces in a four-level underground garage.

The three buildings are positioned around a seismic fault; this open area creates an urban canyon to be enjoyed by residents and those passing by. Retail (8,000 square feet) will be situated at the building’s corners. The buildings design are rustic in feel, using brick and exposed aggregate concrete at their bases with light glass and metal finish in the towers to compliment the rehabilitation of the existing historical building. (East Village – Lower East Neighborhood)


RIVA TRIGOSO
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/RivaTrigoso.jpg

Design approval was granted for Riva Trigoso, a 7-story (88’) mixed-use building with 40 condominium units, 9,900 square feet of commercial retail space, 11,500 square feet of commercial office space, and nearly 5,000 square feet of roof terraces and communal open spaces, located on the south side of Date between State and Columbia. The three-level below grade garage parks 94 cars.

Inspired by 1920s and 1930s Italian rationalist architecture, the project subtlety incorporates nautical elements of the tuna fishing industry. The clean lines and orthogonal volumes are highlighted by deep bays and large storefront windows framed with sea glass, mosaic tile panels, and light-colored porcelain tile. (Little Italy Neighborhood)


PARKSIDE
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/Parkside.jpg
Parkside, a mixed-use affordable rental housing project located on the north side of Island Avenue between 13th and 14th streets. The developer, Parkside Terrace, L.P.’s project would contain 77 apartments, 76 of which are planned affordable units. Necessary actions include termination of Owner Participation Agreement with Oak Shelter Systems, LLC. The project would involve an agency loan not to exceed $13,791,000 from the Centre City Redevelopment Low-and Moderate-income Housing Fund.



Some random pics I took earlier this week -


Smart Corner is looking pretty smart
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Streetlevel/IMG_7602.jpg

Tenants of DiamondView are beginning to move in. This should bring some daytime foot traffic to East Village.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Streetlevel/IMG_7542.jpg

Aria is looking sleek
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Streetlevel/IMG_7599.jpg

MetroWork office condos
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Streetlevel/IMG_7574.jpg

Candy Factory(?) restoration
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Streetlevel/IMG_7537.jpg

Park Terrace
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Streetlevel/IMG_7543.jpg

Alta towers behind new townhomes at The Mark
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Streetlevel/IMG_7528.jpg

The Legend rises above another historic building being restored
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Streetlevel/IMG_7532.jpg

Electra standing tall
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Streetlevel/IMG_7573.jpg

Here's the proposed Navy tower at NBC

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/navy280.jpg


More pics -

Vantage Pointe at floor 2, with 38 more to go!!
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Streetlevel/IMG_7605.jpg

Electra from Pantoja Park
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Streetlevel/IMG_7580.jpg

It's amazing how fast the Hilton is going up!
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Streetlevel/IMG_7530.jpg
:tup:

[spoonman]

That's great news SD Urban! That site was originally going to be a parking structure. I think it's funny that the project will include a police substation. The police headquarters is about 6 blocks away...lol

[Derek]

What the hell has happened in here? How did you all get so chatty in just a couple of days? I guess the only way to keep up-to-date in here is to check in everyday...not necessarily a bad thing :)


Here's an interesting article from this week's SD Business Journal regarding the 7th & Market proposal. This condo/apartment/hotel will have 638 units, so chances are favorable for a fairly tall tower. I believe this project is the empty lot in between The Mark and Alta.


Redevelopment Arm OKs Proposal for Historic Block on Market Street

African American District Was Once Called Harlem of the West

By JESSICA LONG
San Diego Business Journal Staff


A downtown city block once slated to become little more than another reinforced-concrete parking lot may soon host apartments, condos, a hotel and a police substation, as well as public art and retail space.

A committee of the Centre City Development Corp. voted March 26 to accept a proposal by the joint venture of Related/City Link Investment to develop the 55,000-square-foot block bounded by Seventh Avenue on the west, Market Street on the north, Eighth Avenue on the east and Island Avenue on the south.

Related LP is based in New York, while City Link Investment Corp. is based in downtown San Diego.

On March 28, the full CCDC board approved an exclusive negotiation agreement with Related/City Link that paves the way for the two to discuss finances.

In Related/City Link’s proposal, total development costs for developing the block are listed at $298 million.

“It’s envisioned to be a fairly extensive mixed-use project,” said John Collum, senior project manager with the Centre City Development Corp., the city’s planning and redevelopment agency that oversees downtown redevelopment projects.

CCDC owns the block, excluding a privately owned, 56-room hotel designated a historic landmark because of its relationship with African Americans who visited the city.

The venerable Clermont Hotel, once advertised as “a hotel for colored people,” was built in 1887.

The history of the property is expected to play a big role in the redevelopment project, which may include public art or some other kind of homage to an area dubbed the Harlem of the West in the 1920s.

In its proposal to CCDC, Related/City Link proposed a project that was roughly 1 percent police storefront and cultural space, 2 percent retail/restaurant, 21 percent condos, 35 percent hotel and 41 percent apartments.

The proposed hotel would feature 220 rooms, according to city documents that have been filed with CCDC.

The overall project would include 418 apartments and condos, with the average size being 753 square feet.

About 20 percent of the units would be considered affordable housing, and offered to residents with lower incomes.

Representatives for Related/City Link were unavailable to give details of their proposal.

According to Derek Danziger, communications director for CCDC, the process of selecting a developer for Seventh and Market began several months ago.

Related/City Link was among seven original proposal submitters, a pool that was later whittled to three, then two and, finally, just one last week.

“Basically, our board said we had a much greater opportunity to do more,” Danziger said. “Parking will still be an essential element, but now there’s room to develop other things.”


a pic of that site that i took...not extensive...
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1/emoelmo88/Jan12007-SD042.jpg
Padre's Pizza is across the street...
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1/emoelmo88/Jan12007-SD041.jpg

[spoonman]

Is Padre's pizza good? I make it down to SD once a month?

[Derek]

its just another pizza place...its not bad though...i like it cuz it involves "Padres"...ahhh:tup:

[sandiego_urban]

As much as we all get excited about the big projects, it's the small, individual businesses that help keep the streets lively.

Here's some stuff I discovered in East Village that's helping to transform the neighborhood-

A sneak peak at the restaurant/live music venue/bowling alley under construction now
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Streetlevel/IMG_7749.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Streetlevel/IMG_7748-1.jpg

And the new coffeehouse around the corner from the future bowling alley that's getting ready to open soon. According to the owners working inside, they will be open every night till midnight. What a great asset this will be to the area. For those of you familiar with PB, Zanzibar Coffee is opening up a couple of blocks away.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Streetlevel/IMG_7744.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Streetlevel/IMG_7743.jpg

The cool thing about this place are the jumbo coffee roasters in the glass room in back of this pic. It's similar to the large vats that you see in the local microbreweries. This place will also have a second story mezzinine.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Streetlevel/IMG_7742.jpg

The owners hard at work
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Streetlevel/IMG_7741.jpg

[Derek]

i cant wait for that bowling alley;)

[sandiego_urban]

That's great news SD Urban! That site was originally going to be a parking structure.
I know, but luckily CCDC realizes that putting a parking lot there would be underutilizing the block. Can't wait to see the renderings for this...

[Derek]

do you know when completion is expected for the bowling alley?

[Derek]

I know, but luckily CCDC realizes that putting a parking lot there would be underutilizing the block. Can't wait to see the renderings for this...

i recognized this too...definitly a very good thing;)

its in a pretty good location, too...

[Urban Sky]

What the hell has happened in here? How did you all get so chatty in just a couple of days? I guess the only way to keep up-to-date in here is to check in everyday...not necessarily a bad thing :)


im here thats hows.

[Urban Sky]

i cant believe they are building a zanzibar downtown! i love that place! and a bowling alley! holy crap!

[spoonman]

Doesn't Zanzibar in PB have music and events?

[eburress]

Sorry, but I think there is a lot more than it sounds like you might be giving credit for. Think of Sorrento Valley (now including the new Qualcomm complex...which is a fancy green building too), UTC, University Heights, Mission Valley and the Balboa Park/163 Corridor. Coronado even has condo towers by the Hotel Del. Del Mar Heights has had success building mid-rise offices and I wouldn't be suprised to see a highrise or two there in the not too distant future.

In other places I've lived (most recently Dallas), there is much more than this.

[Urban Sky]

Doesn't Zanzibar in PB have music and events?

i believe they do. im glad downtown is finally getting a few more indie coffee shops. SO tired of seeing starbucks every square mile. I make it a point to go to Bassam on Market and 4th instead of the Starbucks that was strategically placed across the street. a-holes!

^^ thanks for all the updates yall...every time i hear something like this, i get even more pumped about downtown san diego being one of the best urban areas in the country.

[sandiego_urban]

do you know when completion is expected for the bowling alley?

Looks like a June opening, according to this blurb from the latest issue of SD Metropolitan Magazine -

Returning bowling to Downtown, Dan Hurd, Michael Merrigan and Richard Synott, owners of the Gaslamp Tavern at Fifth Avenue and E Street, will open the East Village Tavern and Bowling Alley at 930 Market St. in June. The 9,124-square-foot hotspot will include Downtown’s only bowling alley — the six lanes alone will occupy 4,000 square feet — plus an expanded bar and kitchen area. “We haven’t been able to do the menu we wanted (at the 2,200-square-foot Gaslamp) so this extra space will allow us to do that,” Hurd says. Hungry bowlers can look forward to grilled paninis, pastas and several entrée salads in addition to a food and beverage menu similar to the Gaslamp Tavern’s. This isn’t Downtown’s first bowling alley — at least three have rolled through 92101 at various times, including Academy Bowl, Sunshine Alley and Tower Bowl, which was located where One America Plaza now towers.


I make it a point to go to Bassam on Market and 4th instead of the Starbucks that was strategically placed across the street. a-holes!
Are you aware that Cafe Bassam closed recently? The new owner of the building raised their rent so much that they were forced to close. Cafe Bassam's owner says he will open up again in either Hillcrest or North Park.

[Urban Sky]

Looks like a June opening, according to this blurb from the latest issue of SD Metropolitan Magazine -

Returning bowling to Downtown, Dan Hurd, Michael Merrigan and Richard Synott, owners of the Gaslamp Tavern at Fifth Avenue and E Street, will open the East Village Tavern and Bowling Alley at 930 Market St. in June. The 9,124-square-foot hotspot will include Downtown’s only bowling alley — the six lanes alone will occupy 4,000 square feet — plus an expanded bar and kitchen area. “We haven’t been able to do the menu we wanted (at the 2,200-square-foot Gaslamp) so this extra space will allow us to do that,” Hurd says. Hungry bowlers can look forward to grilled paninis, pastas and several entrée salads in addition to a food and beverage menu similar to the Gaslamp Tavern’s. This isn’t Downtown’s first bowling alley — at least three have rolled through 92101 at various times, including Academy Bowl, Sunshine Alley and Tower Bowl, which was located where One America Plaza now towers..


Here's Downtown San Diego's original bowling alley circa 1920s. The view is facing East on Broadway. As mentioned above, this Bowling alley was sitting where One America Plaza now stands.
http://www.sdera.org/images/photos/tmatson/post/Broadway23_m.jpg



Are you aware that Cafe Bassam closed recently? The new owner of the building raised their rent so much that they were forced to close. Cafe Bassam's owner says he will open up again in either Hillcrest or North Park.


WHAT?! Man, I haven't been there in two months and look what happens. Apparently, they couldn't stay open without my patronage. Fucking starbucks. I blame them. That sucks because Bassam has been there FOREVER!!! Well, I guess on the bright side, Bassam will be replaced with a couple new, unique coffee houses that will hopefully bring the same flavor to DTSD that Bassam did for so many years.

[Derek]

thanks SD urban



Andrew, that picture is mind-blowing!!! wow...the changes...

[mello]

I totally agree with eburress: Look at metro areas like Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, Minneapolis, even suburban areas of Orange County and LA !! They all have way more highrises spread out all over the metro area than SD County.

Shit Oxnard has a couple of highrises. How come north of UTC you find NOTHING. (The shit off Del Mar Heights doesn't count as highrises in my book)

Carlsbad/Oceanside/Escondido/Vista etc. all fairly large cities with lots of office space but it is all in low slung campus style buildings. Kearny Mesa/El Cajon/Chula Vista NO highrises I just don't get it.

The other metros I mentioned above are flat with no hills or oceans to restrict them so you would think they wouldn't have to build vertical. Is it because they have more fortune 500's?? Maybe it is because we are so close to the megalopolis of LA that they suck up all the kinds of companies that locate in highrises. :shrug:

[Derek]

^my opinion...NIMBYs!! :hell:

[mello]

Well it could be NIMBYs or it could be local governments. For example take Plano Texas (Metro Dallas) or Irving, Arlington etc. Then look at Carlsbad, Escondido, Oceanside, and Chula Vista. Do they have different zoning or restrictions on highrises built into their local charters or laws that the Texas cities don't??

[Urban Sky]

i think its partly because of the types of industry in san diego and requirements in office space

[eburress]

^^ There is anti-development sentiment throughout the SD metro area, but I think the root problem is that there just aren't that many companies (a.k.a. demand) for commercial development. Downtown...North County...Mission Valley...anywhere.

If you look at any big metro like Dallas, Atlanta, Houston, Denver, there are numerous skyscraper districts. Looking at Dallas specifically (because that's the place I am most familiar with), the areas of Las Colinas, Uptown, Park Central, North Central Expressway, Addison, Richardson, Frisco, Preston Center, North Irving, Galleria (just to name a few) all have at least as much commerical space as San Diego's Sorrento Valley/UTC area.

[mello]

Still this is a metro area of 3.5 million people (including Temecula/Murrieta) so those people must work for some *company* So look at Denver it is a smaller metro area then SD. Is it because they have more big corporate employers like oil companies??

Is the San Diego economy more small business and tourist based versus large corporate economies that drive Dallas, Atlanta, Houston, etc...

The question is this: are there certain kinds of companies that are much more likely to be housed in vertical office space??

eburress: do you have photos of those different districts in Dallas??

[Derek]

The question is this: are there certain kinds of companies that are much more likely to be housed in vertical office space??



yes, SD has a TON of science based industries, which doesnt require vertical space, but rather they need large laboratories to do all their studies, or manufacture their products etc....

[eburress]

Still this is a metro area of 3.5 million people (including Temecula/Murrieta) so those people must work for some *company* So look at Denver it is a smaller metro area then SD. Is it because they have more big corporate employers like oil companies??

Is the San Diego economy more small business and tourist based versus large corporate economies that drive Dallas, Atlanta, Houston, etc...

The question is this: are there certain kinds of companies that are much more likely to be housed in vertical office space??

eburress: do you have photos of those different districts in Dallas??

Yes. The issue is a relative lack of big corporate employers.

Yes, we all know that certain kinds of companies are more likely to be housed in vertical office space, but it's not like San Diego is overflowing with low-rise office developments either...certainly not like a San Jose, Houston, or Dallas. There's not as much office space of any kind here.

[eburress]

yes, SD has a TON of science based industries, which doesnt require vertical space, but rather they need large laboratories to do all their studies, or manufacture their products etc....

Even so, like I said in my previous post, there's nowhere near the amount of such space as other places like Dallas, Denver, San Jose, etc.

BTW, our airport (or the lack thereof) is one of the things that will continue to limit the amount of corporate expansion here in San Diego.

[mello]

^^^ Ok so then where does everyone work eburress??? I don't get it how can Denver which has far less people in its metro area have more "office space" then metro San Diego? Are you saying far more people work in hotels,restaurants, mom and pops, and funky strip malls here in SD then they do in Denver. Or is it that there are more military jobs and retirees here in San Diego?

Do you get what I'm saying. People need to have a job and usually that is in an *office*.

[Derek]

^all of our offices are in 3-6 story business parks smack dab in the middle of all the sprawl...its digusting...

[bmfarley]

^^^ Ok so then where does everyone work eburress??? Downtown for me. My front door to office door commute is 18 minutes from my Banker's Hill abode!

[eburress]

eburress: do you have photos of those different districts in Dallas??

Here are a few I was able to dig up...Bill Cobb definitely had the best shots. Some of the others aren't very recent, but you get the picture.

Uptown:
http://www.dallassky.com/Uptown_2006.jpg


Turtle Creek (with Las Colinas in the distance):
http://www.dallassky.com/turtle_creek_towers.jpg

http://www.dallassky.com/p4-7.h3.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/kcphotos/dallas/dallas_6683.JPG

Las Colinas:
http://photos.imageevent.com/kcphotos/dallas/dallas_6857.JPG

http://urban-photos.com/webgraphics/dallas_6881.JPG


Stemmons:
http://www.dallassky.com/stemmons_freeway_skyline.jpg


Galleria/Dallas North Tollway:
http://www.oscarmail.net/dfwfreeways/aerial/i635_at_dnt/29_dnt_looking_n_at_635_2005-04-11_ADJ_600.jpg

http://www.dallassky.com/galleria_skyline_2.jpg


Preston Center:
http://photos.imageevent.com/kcphotos/dallas/dallas_6667.JPG


Richardson/Telecom Corridor:
http://www.dallassky.com/telecom_corridor.jpg


Addison:
http://photos.imageevent.com/kcphotos/dallas/dallas_6629.JPG

North Central Expressway:
http://www.dallassky.com/north_central_1.jpg

Same area, different direction:
http://www.dallassky.com/north_central_expwy_2.jpg

[eburress]

^^^ Ok so then where does everyone work eburress??? I don't get it how can Denver which has far less people in its metro area have more "office space" then metro San Diego? Are you saying far more people work in hotels,restaurants, mom and pops, and funky strip malls here in SD then they do in Denver. Or is it that there are more military jobs and retirees here in San Diego?

Do you get what I'm saying. People need to have a job and usually that is in an *office*.

I know what you mean, but unfortunately, I don't have any solid numbers to give you. Anecdotally, I'd say (guess) that many are in the military or tourism - and I also run into a LOT of people who don't work in a traditional office environment at all. They're either self-employed, wealthy, work remotely, or something funky like that. There are also a lot of retirees and there are a lot of people for which San Diego is not their primary residence.

[bmfarley]

eburess, I use to live in Denton. Do you have any pics of what that area looks like now?

[eburress]

This is the only photo of Denton I have!! hahaha :)

http://www.alicia-logic.com/capsimages/rhps_007Denton.jpg

Seriously, it has been a few years since I've been there, but it was already on its way to becoming another huge suburb for Dallas and Ft. Worth like Plano, Frisco, McKinney, etc.



Edit --> For the record, I think it would be ideal for San Diego if the majority of their commercial development were downtown. I'm not saying SD should look like these other cities - I'm just surprised that it doesn't. :)

[Urban Sky]

Downtown for me. My front door to office door commute is 18 minutes from my Banker's Hill abode!

i used to live in downtown and i commuted to Rancho bernardo. then i moved to bankers hill and commuted to Rancho Bernardo. Now I live in Lakeside and I still commute up north. I'd rather work downtown, but it's not possible for me.

[OCtoSD]

The last thing we need is suburban office towers. Developments like those in the picture are downtown killers. In OC we have no serious downtown. That is why we have those highrises spread through out the county. By the way the highrises are generally architecturally insignificant (aka boxy and boring). Lets keep the office highrises downtown with significant architecture. (IM PEI)

[spoonman]

Keep in mind that San Diego has a lower population than Dallas, Atlanta, and Houston. If they have 50% more people, I'd expect them to have 50% more offices. Remember that San Diego has an extremely low office vacancy rate as many of the aforementioned cities do not. Many were overbuilt a number of years ago on speculation. It is also true that San Diego has a more unconventional workforce consisting of a large number of entrepreneurs. Anyone see the list of cities with the highest venture capital investments. San Diego was aprox #5 in the nation beating out many larger cities.

[Urban Sky]

^^yeah, i did see that. thats one of the reasons i posted the article a few pages ago about rent prices for office space. low cap companies not being able to afford places like Downtown, UTC, & Sorrento push them towards the I-15 corridor and lower rent office space around the county.

[bmfarley]

I noticed in the recent population stats that San Diego county surpassed Orange County. SD County is now the 2nd most populous California county. Go figure.

[eburress]

The last thing we need is suburban office towers. Developments like those in the picture are downtown killers. In OC we have no serious downtown. That is why we have those highrises spread through out the county. By the way the highrises are generally architecturally insignificant (aka boxy and boring). Lets keep the office highrises downtown with significant architecture. (IM PEI)

I totally agree about suburban development being downtown killers (or drainers, more accurately).

I do disagree in the sense that even though these cities do have an abundance of downtown-killing office developments, they do also have incredibly beautiful downtown architecture. Granted, consolidating the office developments downtown would make for more downtown office buildings, but it's not like having one (suburban buildings) totally destroys the other (beautiful downtown architecture).

I also disagree in that here in SD, it's not as if the relative lack of suburban office development has caused this wealth of architecturally significant (non-boxy or boring) office towers downtown. When Pei/Cobb build their "signature" office tower, that will make one "signature" office tower in downtown. :)

[Derek]

I noticed in the recent population stats that San Diego county surpassed Orange County. SD County is now the 2nd most populous California county. Go figure.

did OC just pass SD like a few months ago?

oh well:)

[eburress]

Keep in mind that San Diego has a lower population than Dallas, Atlanta, and Houston. If they have 50% more people, I'd expect them to have 50% more offices. Remember that San Diego has an extremely low office vacancy rate as many of the aforementioned cities do not. Many were overbuilt a number of years ago on speculation. It is also true that San Diego has a more unconventional workforce consisting of a large number of entrepreneurs. Anyone see the list of cities with the highest venture capital investments. San Diego was aprox #5 in the nation beating out many larger cities.

True, true, and true. :)

IMO, San Diego needs to build an airport and then focus on attracting/encouraging corporate relocations/expansion, because although there are other factors influencing SD's population (e.g., cost of living), people aren't going to move here if there aren't places to work.

[PadreHomer]

I know, but luckily CCDC realizes that putting a parking lot there would be underutilizing the block. Can't wait to see the renderings for this...
is that the one that was going to be park it on market south?

[SDCAL]

True, true, and true. :)

IMO, San Diego needs to build an airport and then focus on attracting/encouraging corporate relocations/expansion, because although there are other factors influencing SD's population (e.g., cost of living), people aren't going to move here if there aren't places to work.

This is true - the airport is key and in my opinion and will make or break SDs expansion into becoming a true world-class city, which unfortunately it is not right now. I fly to Europe and Asia with work on a regular basis, and can tell you that my company has left SD because it's inconvinient (the only reason I am still here is because I am home based). I could fly direct to London or Frankfurt if I was in Portland, Oregon, Denver, or Phoenix, but you can't from SD. Instead you have to shuttle to LA or SF, making SD very unattractive to corporations and even non-profit organizations that are mutli-national and need frequent connections to to major international centres. Even Tijuana has a direct flight to Tokyo. With our position on the Pacific and bordering Mexico, we could be such a more vibrant city, but the conservative politics of this military town stifle creativity and diversity and the majority of people here want to shut Mexico off by building a wall and keep SD a quaint, conservative beach town. Anyway, enough of my rambling, I am just disapointed that a new aiport site has not been able to be hammered out becasue I think this great city would bennefit, the current airport is a joke and safety hazard.

[SDCAL]

Keep in mind that San Diego has a lower population than Dallas, Atlanta, and Houston. If they have 50% more people, I'd expect them to have 50% more offices. Remember that San Diego has an extremely low office vacancy rate as many of the aforementioned cities do not. Many were overbuilt a number of years ago on speculation. It is also true that San Diego has a more unconventional workforce consisting of a large number of entrepreneurs. Anyone see the list of cities with the highest venture capital investments. San Diego was aprox #5 in the nation beating out many larger cities.

Agreed, alot of people think that SD is a very large city because people will quote the city population ranks as opposed to the metro population. For example SD ranks something like 6th or 7th in the nation in terms of "city populations" but is is much further down the list when it comes to metro urban areas. Cities like Miami, Dallas, even SF show up as smaller cities than SD, however their metro populations are much larger. Since metro areas generally dictate the major infrastructure needs (corporate headquarters, airports, mass-transit, etc), it is the metro population that is a better indicator of the magnitude of architectural projects. For example, Miami International airport serves the Miami metro area and much of southeast Florida not only the city of Miami, which explains why a city smaller than San Diego has the need for a much larger/busier airport with more international connections than SD.

[SDCAL]

Sorry for all the posts, I am new to this site.

Does anyone know where the actual written "law" regarding San Diego's 500ft building height restriction is located? I have searched the internet and can't find anything.

All anyone hears is that we can't have buildings taller than 500ft downtown due to the close proximity of the airport, but wasn't this policy made long ago when downtown was confined to the marina area near the airport?? Now that downtown has expanded east of the ballpark, I am wondering if specific boundaires were mentioned for the restriction when the policy was written. When I am in East Village east of the ballpark, I never hear planes overhead or see any and I have a hard time believing East Village skyscrapers would pose a problem to the flight paths at Linbergh field????

[OCtoSD]

People QuickFacts Orange County California
Population definition and source info Population, 2005 estimate 2,988,072
People QuickFacts San Diego County California
Population definition and source info Population, 2005 estimate 2,933,462

So unless there is something that others are seeing that I am not census bureau still has OC as bigger.

[Xavier Cage]

I totally agree with eburress: Look at metro areas like Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, Minneapolis, even suburban areas of Orange County and LA !! They all have way more highrises spread out all over the metro area than SD County.

Shit Oxnard has a couple of highrises. How come north of UTC you find NOTHING. (The shit off Del Mar Heights doesn't count as highrises in my book)

Carlsbad/Oceanside/Escondido/Vista etc. all fairly large cities with lots of office space but it is all in low slung campus style buildings. Kearny Mesa/El Cajon/Chula Vista NO highrises I just don't get it.

The other metros I mentioned above are flat with no hills or oceans to restrict them so you would think they wouldn't have to build vertical. Is it because they have more fortune 500's?? Maybe it is because we are so close to the megalopolis of LA that they suck up all the kinds of companies that locate in highrises. :shrug:
Chula Vista will be adding some highrises in the next couple of years to there Bayfront. There is the Gayord hotel and covention center that was posted in this thread earlier. There will also be development around that project. They plan to add new development that will include hotels, conference facilities, waterfront specialty shops, cultural attractions, condominium housing, and employment centers.

Here are some renderings of the project:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/hektik/CVHarborDistrict.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/hektik/CVMarina.jpg

The Chula Vista Bayfront Master Plan is going to be built on 500 acres of Bayfront land. That does not include what could be built on 160 acres south of that Bayfront Master plan.

Take a look at this map:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/hektik/CVMPCSO.jpg

The area outline in blue is the Chula Vista Bayfront Master Plan. That is where the Gaylord hotel & Convention center will be. It will also have condo towers, shops, restraunts, and public plazas.

The outline in red is where the South Bay Power Plant currently sits. The CV City Council and Port of San Diego have already voted to get rid of the aging power plant. It is now one of the proposed sites for a new Chargers Stadium. This area could be turning into a very good urban bayfront in the near future.

[Derek]

the Chula Vista project looks nice:tup:


and i couldnt agree with you guys more about the airport being key...its so unfortunate:(

[eburress]

This area could be turning into a very good urban bayfront in the near future.

A very good urban bayfront...with no height limits. A nice location for a new Chargers stadium too.

[Derek]

A very good urban bayfront...with no height limits. A nice location for a new Chargers stadium too.

a superb location!


but how come you emphasized the no height limit? do you think Chula Vista will build a tower taller than 500 feet?

[bmfarley]

People QuickFacts Orange County California
Population definition and source info Population, 2005 estimate 2,988,072
People QuickFacts San Diego County California
Population definition and source info Population, 2005 estimate 2,933,462

So unless there is something that others are seeing that I am not census bureau still has OC as bigger.
The California Department of Finance is the appropriate authority on all population estimates within the state in 9 our of 10 years. That 1 out of 10 is obviously the US Census estimate... and from time to time the census provides updates, but the CaDOF is more accurate outside of the deciennal census. So, see the attached link to the appropriate page and the CaDOF site and look for a link titled:

E-2. California County Population Estimates and Components of Change by Year — July 1, 2000–2006 (.xls, 136k)

http://www.dof.ca.gov/HTML/DEMOGRAP/ReportsPapers/Estimates/E2/E-2_2000-06.asp

As of July 2006
SD: 3,084,634
OC: 3,083,894

[Derek]

^blame the Santa Fe Valley :P

[Derek]

anybody catching the police pursuit?

[bmfarley]

anybody catching the police pursuit?yep, NBC has a clearer picture than CBS, imo.

[Derek]

ive been watching the NBC one too, but now im flipping between the Padres and NBC...i thought we were gunna have a border incident for a second;)

[bmfarley]

ive been watching the NBC one too, but now im flipping between the Padres and NBC...i thought we were gunna have a border incident for a second;)

The guy is a good driver. bad runner tho.

[Derek]

^:jester:
how many precincts do you think got involved?

[bmfarley]

^:jester:
how many precincts do you think got involved?He ran like a girl. I think at least 2... Carlsbad and CHP

[Derek]

i saw Oceanside (i believe) and SD County at least

[bmfarley]

i saw Oceanside (i believe) and SD County at least
that makes 4 then.

[Derek]

BS strike 3 call in the Pads game:(


so anyways, after the heart-breaking game, i drove past Bayside and they have a fancy illuminated ad at the site...pretty cool

AND

i found the R2-D2 mailbox:jester:its in front of the County Courthouse

[Urban Sky]

This is true - the airport is key and in my opinion and will make or break SDs expansion into becoming a true world-class city, which unfortunately it is not right now. I fly to Europe and Asia with work on a regular basis, and can tell you that my company has left SD because it's inconvinient (the only reason I am still here is because I am home based). I could fly direct to London or Frankfurt if I was in Portland, Oregon, Denver, or Phoenix, but you can't from SD. Instead you have to shuttle to LA or SF, making SD very unattractive to corporations and even non-profit organizations that are mutli-national and need frequent connections to to major international centres. Even Tijuana has a direct flight to Tokyo. With our position on the Pacific and bordering Mexico, we could be such a more vibrant city, but the conservative politics of this military town stifle creativity and diversity and the majority of people here want to shut Mexico off by building a wall and keep SD a quaint, conservative beach town. Anyway, enough of my rambling, I am just disapointed that a new aiport site has not been able to be hammered out becasue I think this great city would bennefit, the current airport is a joke and safety hazard.


:previous: That's very intertesting. And I think it's important to note too. This is why I think it's so key that we secure a good location for Lindberg field. The city needs a place that is still relatively close to downtown that will give the Airport room to grow with the city. It has to be convinient or no one will want to use it. There is also absolutely NO reason why San Diego cannot be a hub for international travel and relations.

Think about it. There is no other city in the United States that is positioned as well as San Diego for International synergy. Miami is in a good location, but it's not physically connected to any other countries. There is at least 50 miles of ocean between the closest country and Miami and look how well they've positioned themselves as the "Gateway to Latin America". We are just as close as Miami is to all those countries and there is no reason why San Diego cannot develop itself into the west-coast counterpart to Miami as an international hub. Look at all the good it's doing for Miami too. They are getting development downtown like there is no tomorrow! Not more than a few years ago, they completed what is the tallest building in the state, and now they are surpassing that building several times over.

If San Diego plans to expand into anything like this, it need to get it's head out of it's ass and get rid of nimbys like Donna Frye. What they don't realize is that we have a lot of real estate to work with. There is no reason why San Diego cannot keep the small town surf-city feel that it's always had while embracing it's ties with International Business, Location and opportunity. We already have the military here, we have the technology industry here. San Diego can easily become a world class city.

My vision for the city would be to move the airport to the proposed Miramar location, expand the city north to where the airport was and south towards National City and Chula Vista. We have a lot of prime real estate along the water and I think we should make better use of it. :tup: