[eburress]

Wait. Pause.

The odd levels, spaces, nooks, and whimsy of Horton is something that needs to be saved.



I completely agree. This is the source of so much of the mall's charm, and it would be a real shame to lose that.

[Derek]

Why is it so charming? It's annoying as hell! :haha:

[eburress]

Why is it so charming? It's annoying as hell! :haha:

Obviously it's subjective, but IMO much of the mall's charm comes from its uniqueness and the juxtaposition of styles and colors. Replacing that with unimaginative, boring gray stucco and advertisements removes so much of what the mall had going for it.

I would say that until Westfield reorients the mall towards the surrounding streets, all the cosmetic changes in the world are just lipstick on a pig. ;)

[Derek]

I agree, the focus should be pushing more retail towards the surrounding streets. Oh well, guess we will all have to keep waiting. :(

[ThreeHundred]

My take on the Horton Plaza redo: Please don't BUTCHER this gem!

Right now I personally think the color schemes and some of its architectural elements are tacky. But guess what? People thought similar of California Craftsman, googie style, mission revival etc etc. Now we all regret razing some of our most historic buildings in the name of modernizing towards 60's space age brutalism, which is what that video is pretty much proposing.

Let's not make the same mistake with Horton Plaza. It's charming in its own unique way. I mean, where can you find a place like this anywhere?
http://www.ymcanationals2010.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/horton-plaza.jpg

http://www.inetours.com/San_Diego/Images/DwnTwn/HP-Macys_6169.jpg
All images not mine.

What fun is it if you transform all this into that forgettable wannabe-classiness that can be anywhere, USA that the video shows? Westfield better not ruin it!:sly:

La Placita (Tucson, Arizona)
http://cache2.artprintimages.com/lrg/21/2175/YRVCD00Z.jpg

http://www.bourncompanies.com/wp-content/uploads/46V3569-460x310.jpg
http://www.bourncompanies.com/wp-content/uploads/46V3569-460x310.jpg

http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dims/TRAV/1/592/592/90/http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/adam/30610101c2ef4d8d4198ccb0a51887d3/tucson-arizona-3-592lvg070810.jpg
http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dims/TRAV/1/592/592/90/http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/adam/30610101c2ef4d8d4198ccb0a51887d3/tucson-arizona-3-592lvg070810.jpg

http://www.go-arizona.com/AZ/images/photos/tucson-tmb-LaPlacita.jpg
http://www.go-arizona.com/AZ/images/photos/tucson-tmb-LaPlacita.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-TBxvAlBR4QY/T1FGBFi0x_I/AAAAAAAAD6I/r2koN4vf85E/s1600/LaPlacitaSmall.JPG
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-TBxvAlBR4QY/T1FGBFi0x_I/AAAAAAAAD6I/r2koN4vf85E/s1600/LaPlacitaSmall.JPG

http://www.tucsonazrealestateblog.com/images/HomeImprovement.jpg
http://www.tucsonazrealestateblog.com/images/HomeImprovement.jpg

[mongoXZ]

^^I see the similarities BUT:

That looks more like puebloesque style with a new coat of pastels. Horton Plaza is Escheresque kitsch 80' abstract.

HP is in the middle of a live, bustling urban center. That thing in Tuscon is. . .in Tuscon.

I KEED! I KEED!

I would say that until Westfield reorients the mall towards the surrounding streets, all the cosmetic changes in the world are just lipstick on a pig.

I totally agree. But how would you go about doing that effectively? The only way I can think of is demolishing the parking structure. I highly doubt that's gonna happen.

[eburress]

^^I see the similarities BUT:

That looks more like puebloesque style with a new coat of pastels. Horton Plaza is Escheresque kitsch 80' abstract.

HP is in the middle of a live, bustling urban center. That thing in Tuscon is. . .in Tuscon.

I KEED! I KEED!



I totally agree. But how would you go about doing that effectively? The only way I can think of is demolishing the parking structure. I highly doubt that's gonna happen.

You would have to think it would involve a massive reconstruction, so yeah, I don't see it happening either. ;)

[mongoXZ]

Oh and a true story I want to tell everyone here since we're on the subject of Horton Plaza. I want to note what kind of impression outsiders get when they see it as it is.

I love entertaining out-of-town visitors and lately I've been doing that a lot. When I take them out I usually show them our downtown first. If there's time (like a few extra days) I show them the beach towns (Coronado, PB, La Jolla) and when they have a full week that's when our zoos and Seaworld come into play. When I drive to downtown I usually park at the very top level of the Horton Plaza Garage because there's always space available even during the busy times. I walk them down through the little mall and down the escalator into 4th Ave (yeah, I got it down to a T).

Last month my wife had a childhood friend from New York/ Jersey for a wedding. We took her thru the usual path to the Gaslamp. Mind you, this guest lives in Jersey City, commutes to Manhattan via subway and has been working as some kind of fashion manager at the original Saks 5th Ave for 20 years. The moment she set foot into Horton Plaza I saw her look up at all the signs in the sky and in her funny Fran Drescher-like accent she uttered "Guys, I'm gonna move here."

I asked her why do you say that? And she said "Look at this crazy place! I love it!"

Don't destroy Horton Plaza!

[ThreeHundred]

I was never much a fan of Horton Plaza. I remember being younger and walking to Mission Valley (matter of fact, I would WALK down Texas Street to get to Mission Valley..not an easy task). But looking back, Horton Plaza is a good design but it's from a different era. It really is in need of a upgrade.

[eburress]

Oh and a true story I want to tell everyone here since we're on the subject of Horton Plaza. I want to note what kind of impression outsiders get when they see it as it is.

I love entertaining out-of-town visitors and lately I've been doing that a lot. When I take them out I usually show them our downtown first. If there's time (like a few extra days) I show them the beach towns (Coronado, PB, La Jolla) and when they have a full week that's when our zoos and Seaworld come into play. When I drive to downtown I usually park at the very top level of the Horton Plaza Garage because there's always space available even during the busy times. I walk them down through the little mall and down the escalator into 4th Ave (yeah, I got it down to a T).

Last month my wife had a childhood friend from New York/ Jersey for a wedding. We took her thru the usual path to the Gaslamp. Mind you, this guest lives in Jersey City, commutes to Manhattan via subway and has been working as some kind of fashion manager at the original Saks 5th Ave for 20 years. The moment she set foot into Horton Plaza I saw her look up at all the signs in the sky and in her funny Fran Drescher-like accent she uttered "Guys, I'm gonna move here."

I asked her why do you say that? And she said "Look at this crazy place! I love it!"

Don't destroy Horton Plaza!

That was my first impression too. I really loved Horton Plaza's "craziness" and will be sad to see it go.

[LosAngelesDreamin]

The odd levels, spaces, nooks, and whimsy of Horton is something that needs to be saved. If you had read my posts from before, you'd know that the removal of Horton's distinctive architectural features are my main issue. Not the paint color, railings, etc. Do what you will with those details, just don't destroy the distinctive layout.

As for the billboards, LED or not, those are going to have a harder time being approved with downtown already having strict guidelines on such advertisements.

Yea the levels, weird layout, columns, arches, and domes and everything is what i really love... the color and patterns?? not so much at all...

but anyways i've always seen horton plaza as the place where led lights and such should be.. since the very top has those exaggerated food and store signs.. like the mcdees and such. also if the place did have a bunch of led signs and billboards it would really "distract" or be a "blight" to the streets and people outside on the streets surrounding the mall since its "inside"... the digital signs and lights wouldn't be seen on 4th and 1st ave, broadway, and g st.... im not saying put a whole bunch of it EVERYWHERE... but just a few here and there, nothing too crazy :D

[IconRPCV]

I spent much of my childhood in Horton Plaza, back when it was all there was in Downtown, when i lived in the East Village for 6 years I didn't get there as much, except occasionally to the Nordstom or the Movie theatre, but I always loved that she was still there. She needs to be updated a bit i agree but not changed. She is as much a part of San Diego as Balboa Park or the Hotel Del.

[mello]

Question about the shelved "Ball Park Village" project and the giant twin tower Marriott that was proposed: Who still controls that land where that project was going to be built? Is John Moores still involved with that parcel, because I'm wondering if that is part of the deal if you buy the Padres for 800 million do you get that land?

Also that land will be needed for a Stadium if one is built on the East Village site, so will the city or Chargers have to buy it from Moores or whomever controls/will control it once the Padres sale goes through?

[HurricaneHugo]

Got my degree (Structural Engineering) and lost my job in the same day.

Anybody looking for a worker lol

What are some good city jobs I could do?

[202_Cyclist]

Got my degree (Structural Engineering) and lost my job in the same day.

Anybody looking for a worker lol

What are some good city jobs I could do?

Sorry to hear this. There are tremendous opportunities if you have an engineering degree here in DC.

[HurricaneHugo]

Sorry to hear this. There are tremendous opportunities if you have an engineering degree here in DC.

Moving isn't really an option at this point. :\

[mello]

Moving isn't really an option at this point. :\

Yup you stuck in Sherman Heights son, better find you a hustle quick. Gotta pay dem bills bwoy :haha: You could start a little churro stand on Cesar Chavez... Maybe make 50$ a day -- Times are tough in SD right now for the youth, I see some social unrest coming soon. Just aren't any opportunities for a middle class income, at least not nearly enough to go around.

[HurricaneHugo]

Yup you stuck in Sherman Heights son, better find you a hustle quick. Gotta pay dem billy bwoy :haha: You could start a little churro stand on Cesar Chavez... Maybe make 50$ a day -- Times are tough in SD right now for the youth, I see some social unrest coming soon. Just aren't any opportunities for a middle class income, at least not nearly enough to go around.

Maybe I'll start a protection racket on the tamale ladies...

Hmm...

[Lipani]

Condo project OK'd; starting price $750,000
Bosa wins design approval for 41-story project, leaves name to public
Written by Roger Showley

Nat Bosa, the Vancouver developer responsible for many of San Diego's downtown condo towers, says his next project will top all those.

He's planning a 41-story, 232-unit tower at the southeast corner of Broadway and Pacific Highway.

Estimated to cost $250 million and projected for completion in 2016, this would not be the tallest, by floor count, in the city. Its neighbor to the east, Electra, also built by Bosa, holds that distinction: 43 stories.

http://media.utsandiego.com/img/photos/2012/06/27/condos_t620.jpg?3ba288e077780dca5879b70fc3e0b2d025cf5799
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/jun/27/iconic-condo-tower-promised-downtown-next-wave-dev/

[northbay]

^ Looks great! Anybody know the height in feet? 500? ;)

[TGBinSD]

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/jun/27/iconic-condo-tower-promised-downtown-next-wave-dev/

i can't wait to see this beauty rise! it's going to be a great addition to the skyline. the base is amazing. :cheers:

[psychotron]

Great looking tower! Finally something different, some variety.

[HurricaneHugo]

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/jun/27/iconic-condo-tower-promised-downtown-next-wave-dev/

Why can't they use some of the better pictures of it!

[SDfan]

Hope it gets built soon.

[mello]

Looks great, lets do this. Has anyone heard the status of BOSA's 1st Ave. and Island tower? I know he owns the parcel and the rendering was kind of Miami style with a twist... I guess he wants to take it one project at a time. I really think there is potential to market these condo high rises to Asian buyers similar to what Vancouver has done for decades. Rich guys from Shanghai, Hong Kong, Manila, etc.

We have the Japan flight coming on line in December next we need a Shanghai and Manila flight and we can begin to reach out to foreign investors similar to what Miami has been doing with Brazilian buyers coming in and snatching up units in their new condo towers.

[Chapelo]

Update on La Jolla Commons Tower 2:

Foundation work is proceeding, and two cranes are now on site. Foundation work is scheduled to continue into the fall, and structural steel installation will commence in December/January 2013.

There's also a live camera-feed of the site:

http://www.earthcam.com/client/hines/

[spoonman]

Update on La Jolla Commons Tower 2:

Foundation work is proceeding, and two cranes are now on site. Foundation work is scheduled to continue into the fall, and structural steel installation will commence in December/January 2013.

There's also a live camera-feed of the site:

http://www.earthcam.com/client/hines/

Glad to see this going forward. From what I can tell, they may have left room to squeeze in a third tower on the site. The original plan was for 1 ofice, and 1 hotel/condo tower, but 2 office towers were built instead. IF the encomony improves, they may be able to go back to the drawing board and squeeze in the condo/hotel tower which was never built.

[Chapelo]

I know that the plot across from where the tower is being built is where the existing parking garage is being extended. Would that be on the far side of the site, closer to the 805?

[spoonman]

I know that the plot across from where the tower is being built is where the existing parking garage is being extended. Would that be on the far side of the site, closer to the 805?

The leftover space should be at the corner of LaJolla Village and Judicial.

[kpexpress]

Looks great, lets do this. Has anyone heard the status of BOSA's 1st Ave. and Island tower? I know he owns the parcel and the rendering was kind of Miami style with a twist... I guess he wants to take it one project at a time. I really think there is potential to market these condo high rises to Asian buyers similar to what Vancouver has done for decades. Rich guys from Shanghai, Hong Kong, Manila, etc.

We have the Japan flight coming on line in December next we need a Shanghai and Manila flight and we can begin to reach out to foreign investors similar to what Miami has been doing with Brazilian buyers coming in and snatching up units in their new condo towers.

That's all we need, more empty condo's owned by out-of-towners who come for a baseball game. We need families residing in our downtown neighborhoods!

[mello]

That's all we need, more empty condo's owned by out-of-towners who come for a baseball game. We need families residing in our downtown neighborhoods!

Of course that would be better K but what is your plan to magically make 100k per year jobs blossom in Metro SD? If you haven't noticed companies here don't want to pay jack ish and Biotech isn't booming so... My point is we are languishing in mediocrity here and maybe some foreign investment would be a good thing.

If you have any ideas on how to jump start quality job growth here please let us know. Or if developers can build nice 1200 square foot units for families downtown for 300 to 400k and minimal homeowners fees that will work as well, but I don't see that happening either.

[eburress]

If you have any ideas on how to jump start quality job growth here please let us know.

Build a new airport at Miramar. :)

[HurricaneHugo]

Screw downtown, move to Sherman Heights right next door and remodel an old house and raise my property's value. :cool:

[HurricaneHugo]

Also it looks like Grocery Outlet is almost ready to open

http://i.imgur.com/EMZBn.jpg

[spoonman]

Is anyone following the One Paseo development? This is a proposed multi-use development to create a walkable urban district in the Carmel Valley neighborhood. The residents complain about the height, density and traffic. That said, there is already considerable high-density ofice and hotels in the area, and this is right next to the 5 freeway.

http://onepaseo.com/

[mello]

Is anyone following the One Paseo development? This is a proposed multi-use development to create a walkable urban district in the Carmel Valley neighborhood. The residents complain about the height, density and traffic. That said, there is already considerable high-density ofice and hotels in the area, and this is right next to the 5 freeway.

http://onepaseo.com/

I'm all for One Paseo I think it would be great for that piece of land that is just sitting there awkwardly vacant. I can't believe it is still sitting there. The Height isn't a big deal because they will build the tower at the bottom the the sloping lot. You probably will barely be able to see it from the 5 or maybe not at all. Lets get er done.

Oh and whats up with the Old Police headquarters redo in to new restaurants... Any news on that?

[kingchef]

northbay, to get feet measurement, you will have to know the number of meters. 1 meter= approximately 3.36 ft. if the building were to be 500 meters, you would be seeing a building of approximately 1680 ft., that is an awfully tall building for san diego. consequently, i would think 500 ft might be correct, although, my visits to san diego suggest to me they're are several skyscrapers well over that range, and it wouldn't be very impressive in your skyline, which i think is quite attractive.. doesn't the cbd have a restriction on hts? kingchef

[HurricaneHugo]

northbay, to get feet measurement, you will have to know the number of meters. 1 meter= approximately 3.36 ft. if the building were to be 500 meters, you would be seeing a building of approximately 1680 ft., that is an awfully tall building for san diego. consequently, i would think 500 ft might be correct, although, my visits to san diego suggest to me they're are several skyscrapers well over that range, and it wouldn't be very impressive in your skyline, which i think is quite attractive.. doesn't the cbd have a restriction on hts? kingchef

Not sure who NB is but...

Downtown SD has a 500ft height limit and as such all our buildings are under 500ft. =(

[Derek]

Random observation...what's the difference between San Diego's airport and Las Vegas' airport? Las Vegas has 500'+ buildings in closer proximity to the runway than San Diego does. What gives?

[Dale]

San Diego pilots suck ?

[HurricaneHugo]

Random observation...what's the difference between San Diego's airport and Las Vegas' airport? Las Vegas has 500'+ buildings in closer proximity to the runway than San Diego does. What gives?

I think it has something to do with airplanes having to fly over downtown in case they can't land due to an emergency.

[Derek]

I think it has something to do with airplanes having to fly over downtown in case they can't land due to an emergency.

Instead of flying over downtown, why wouldn't they just fly over Mission Hills instead?

[LosAngelesDreamin]

Instead of flying over downtown, why wouldn't they just fly over Mission Hills instead?

i think cuz it would be faster landing the plane on the ocean by crossing over downtown and coronado rather than going over mission hills then over mission beach or point loma u know?

[Derek]

i think cuz it would be faster landing the plane on the ocean by crossing over downtown and coronado rather than going over mission hills then over mission beach or point loma u know?

So what ocean do planes with emergencies land in if they experience a problem in Las Vegas? :P

[LosAngelesDreamin]

So what ocean do planes with emergencies land in if they experience a problem in Las Vegas? :P

oh stop it you silly :)

[202_Cyclist]

Instead of flying over downtown, why wouldn't they just fly over Mission Hills instead?

It probably has to do with the prevailing winds. This, as much as local topography, determines much of the arrival and departure paths for airports. There is probably also restricted airspace around Miramar that determines the approaches to/from Lindbergh. Flying over Mexican airspace would also possibly mean paying overflight fees to the Mexican government, something the airlines would seek to avoid.

[dl3000]

^^ Plus the fact that Vegas is pretty flat with no military air bases as close to the airport as Miramar or North Island.

[HurricaneHugo]

I think the reason is that by default planes go to the left of the airport in the airport.

In San Diego's case that takes an airplane over downtown while in Vegas it isn't a problem.

[HurricaneHugo]

The lots for this project are now fenced off and hopefully it means construction begins soon since my neighborhood desperately needs it.

http://mvpi-architects.com/portfolio/pr/215_Commercial-22nd-Street-Mixed-Use

http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_full_width_scaled/hash/d2/f3/COMM%2022%20Aerial%20Site%20Plan%20_%20SEDC.jpg

[HurricaneHugo]

Went to the DT Bargain Market, not much of a bargain!

http://i.imgur.com/JJGOV.jpg

[Flyer75]

Went to the DT Bargain Market, not much of a bargain!

http://i.imgur.com/JJGOV.jpg

That's interesting. I've gone there twice and have found great buys. Especially, Tom's toothpaste and produce. There are great prices on wines also...

[HurricaneHugo]

5 roma tomatoes for a dollar when I can get 2 pounds at my local store?

4 bananas for a dollar. 90 cents for a tiny lettuce head. 3 peaches for a dollar.

Ridiculous.

The only thing me and my mom bought was a bag of potatoes and a digiorno pizza with cookies.

[SDfan]

5 roma tomatoes for a dollar when I can get 2 pounds at my local store?

4 bananas for a dollar. 90 cents for a tiny lettuce head. 3 peaches for a dollar.

Ridiculous.

The only thing me and my mom bought was a bag of potatoes and a digiorno pizza with cookies.

I don't know, I found a few good items at prices that beat everything else downtown and in the environs. The produce isn't a wise purchase though, especially since its mostly all on its last leg, if you know what I mean.

[SDfan]

The lots for this project are now fenced off and hopefully it means construction begins soon since my neighborhood desperately needs it.

http://mvpi-architects.com/portfolio/pr/215_Commercial-22nd-Street-Mixed-Use

http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_full_width_scaled/hash/d2/f3/COMM%2022%20Aerial%20Site%20Plan%20_%20SEDC.jpg

We need more of this in Golden Hill!

[mello]

That mixed use project in the Barrio looks incredible. I'm just wondering who is going to pay market rate rents to live there in this economy? If there were tons of decent jobs in San Diego for young people (under 33) then I could see them snapping up those units at market rate prices.... But sadly the youth are struggling big time here, so is this going to be "affordable housing"?

[LosAngelesDreamin]

Anybody know whats up with lighting up the coronado bay bridge??? i work on san diego bay and seeing the bridge at night is really boring =/ i get so uninterested and often doze off into other topics like "what am i gonna wear tomorrow" instead of just gazing at the bridge.

[Derek]

Weren't they supposed to light it years ago?

[HurricaneHugo]

That mixed use project in the Barrio looks incredible. I'm just wondering who is going to pay market rate rents to live there in this economy? If there were tons of decent jobs in San Diego for young people (under 33) then I could see them snapping up those units at market rate prices.... But sadly the youth are struggling big time here, so is this going to be "affordable housing"?

Old people.

[mello]

Old people.

Old people will want to pay $1700 dollars to rent a two bedroom apartment in Barrio Logan? Uh I don't think so Hugo ;)

[Derek]

Old people will want to pay $1700 dollars to rent a two bedroom apartment in Barrio Logan? Uh I don't think so Hugo ;)

Holy s***. That's how much 2 bedrooms are going for down there? :eek:

[mello]

Holy s***. That's how much 2 bedrooms are going for down there? :eek:

I used that as an example, come on Derek you know that any new construction will be somewhat expensive especially for 2bd/2bth units. Think about it, new units like that in Uptown will go for at least 2200. Buildings like Atlas on 5th and Pennsylvania or the two newish buildings on the west end of Washington Street in Mission Hills.

So if a developer is going to come in and spend all of that money on this huge development I would guess that in 1 year when these things open they will be asking at least 1600 to 1700 for a nice 2 bedroom.

[Derek]

I used that as an example, come on Derek you know that any new construction will be somewhat expensive especially for 2bd/2bth units. Think about it, new units like that in Uptown will go for at least 2200. Buildings like Atlas on 5th and Pennsylvania or the two newish buildings on the west end of Washington Street in Mission Hills.

So if a developer is going to come in and spend all of that money on this huge development I would guess that in 1 year when these things open they will be asking at least 1600 to 1700 for a nice 2 bedroom.



I honestly had no idea prices were that expensive there!!

[HurricaneHugo]

Not going to lie I would love if it was priced liked that.

Need more middle class people in the neighborhood.

Reminds me of the Wal-Mart meeting me and brother went to, they asked who makes more than 25,000, we were the only ones...

[JDRCRASH]

It's so awesome to see what's going on in San Diego. Hopefully we can follow suit. :)

[Derek]

It's so awesome to see what's going on in San Diego. Hopefully we can follow suit. :)


I'm more impressed with what's going on up in your neck of the woods. LA's transit projects are far more impressive than anything happening in San Diego.

[SDfan]

Interesting article, page three has some tower gossip:

Which O.C. company dominates San Diego office market?
The Irvine Co. is a powerhouse here after 30 years.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/jul/28/irvine-co-powerhouse-san-diego-after-30-years/?page=3#article

Irvine is moving forward on a 300,000-square-foot, 15-story office building at La Jolla Centre at La Jolla Village Drive and Towne Centre Drive in UTC.

But it has put on hold its 34-story, 685,000-square-foot tower just west of the Santa Fe Depot -- a site purchased from Bosa Development for a reported $60 million in 2007.

While designed by the prestigious firm of Pei Cobb Freed & Partners of New York and approved by downtown planners, a spokeswoman said it is likely to be redesigned if it goes forward.

Nat Bosa, the Vancouver, B.C., high-rise condo developer active in San Diego who sold the site to Irvine, said recently he wants to move forward soon on a condo tower immediately south of the site at 880 W. Broadway site and might try to buy the northern site back from Irvine.

[mello]

So the new tower is going to be 15 floors at UTC that is higher than we thought. Isn't that new US Bank Tower only 11 or 12 floors?

[SDfan]

So the new tower is going to be 15 floors at UTC that is higher than we thought. Isn't that new US Bank Tower only 11 or 12 floors?

I believe the new tower at La Jolla Commons is going to be 13 floors (by the US Bank tower). The UTC tower is pretty good, from what I can remember from the designs from before, it was going to be a big box, however. The only hope Unioversity City has now for anything taller than it has, would either be the condo tower they're going to put in at UTC or the Coste Verde project (4 towers, 32-34 stories each). But I have no idea what the status of that complex was.

[spoonman]

I believe the new tower at La Jolla Commons is going to be 13 floors (by the US Bank tower). The UTC tower is pretty good, from what I can remember from the designs from before, it was going to be a big box, however. The only hope Unioversity City has now for anything taller than it has, would either be the condo tower they're going to put in at UTC or the Coste Verde project (4 towers, 32-34 stories each). But I have no idea what the status of that complex was.

The Irvine Company tower and the La Jolla Commons towers that are to be constructed are literally across the street from one another.

Besdes possible UTC and Costa Verde towers, I believe there are still good lots for additional towers. Hopefully demand continues to increase.

[mello]

Oh snap I was confused, now I see that these are two separate projects (US Bank twin and Irvine Tower) nice! Looks like the UTC skyline will be pretty impressive once those two are finished. I drove by at night on the 805 on Thursday and some lights were still on in the buildings and it looked fairly dense.

I really hope that the Costa Verde towers moved forward. I also read an article in the UT last week saying that construction on some office space in Mission Valley is looking very likely in the next 12 months -- Doug Manchester's project on his newly bought Union Tribune Property looks nice, needs a couple of tweeks on the architecture though.

[spoonman]

Oh snap I was confused, now I see that these are two separate projects (US Bank twin and Irvine Tower) nice! Looks like the UTC skyline will be pretty impressive once those two are finished. I drove by at night on the 805 on Thursday and some lights were still on in the buildings and it looked fairly dense.

I really hope that the Costa Verde towers moved forward. I also read an article in the UT last week saying that construction on some office space in Mission Valley is looking very likely in the next 12 months -- Doug Manchester's project on his newly bought Union Tribune Property looks nice, needs a couple of tweeks on the architecture though.

Has there been any recent news on the Costa Verde/Monet Verde towers? I can't seem to fnd anything recent. Some 30+ story towers wouldreally cement that area ahead of others as the city's secondary hub.

[HurricaneHugo]

Stupid UTSD subscription...

[LosAngelesDreamin]

theres a crane north of bayside towers.. anyone know whats being constructed there??

[SDfan]

Stupid UTSD subscription...

Just download chrome and open an "incognito" browser window. I believe firefox also has a similar feature. I've been able to bypass the paywall completely by doing that.

[SDfan]

theres a crane north of bayside towers.. anyone know whats being constructed there??

I believe its a 22 story apartment tower. Go to the CCDC map and look it up.

[spoonman]

Does anyone have a pic of this apartment building, or the library?

Also, is there ay news on the Hazard Center towers, or the Union Tribune towers?

[mello]

Does anyone have a pic of this apartment building, or the library?

Also, is there ay news on the Hazard Center towers, or the Union Tribune towers?

I haven't seen anything on this stuff. I'm surprised that developers of high rises aren't getting cracking because our rental vacancy rates are so low and when these buildings are finished in 1.5 to 2 years (if they start now) they should be able to fill them very quickly.

Maybe they just don't think there are enough young professionals in SD making good money who can afford 2200 to 3000 a month for a two bedroom "luxury apartment."

[HurricaneHugo]

Lane Field looks hideous.

http://media.utsandiego.com/img/photos/2012/08/10/LANE_FIELD-63_r620x349.JPG?75d51d0aea2efce5189afce216053cbc530c46a8

And the Chula Vista Waterfront got approved

http://www.kpbs.org/news/2012/aug/09/chula-vista-waterfront-development-approved-coasta/

I do think they can fit a stadium in there...

[Derek]

Where'd you find that Lane Field render? If I recall correctly, when it was first proposed years ago it didn't look half bad. That thing sucks. I know it's been said 1837486482 times, but that's our city's doorstep. Come on San Diego.....



What about the damn Navy Complex? Any new news on that?

[Lipani]

^ The UT published an article on Lane Field yesterday. And that rendering is absolutely pathetic.

[eburress]

Oh wow - that new version of Lane Field isn't pretty. On the bright side it is reminiscent of Bayside (which I think is a very nice looking tower), so assuming it gets built at all, maybe it won't end up quite so bad.

[N830MH]

Why they didn't start a taller building? Because it was height restrictions. Why can't have more than 30 or 40 floor?

[Streamliner]

In other downtown news, the Trolley is rearranging their lines next month. The green line will end at 12th and Imperial via Gaslamp, Convention Center, and Santa Fe Depot. The Orange line will terminate at Santa Fe Depot, and the Blue line will begin at America Plaza before heading to Tijuana.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/aug/13/new-trolley-routes-coming/

Graphic:
http://media.utsandiego.com/news/documents/2012/08/13/323761_1m12trolley.jpg

I think this is great, I love the low floor trains, and I hate that there was no direct Trolley to the Gaslamp area from Old Town/Mission Valley except for special events.

[mello]

It is funny in that article about the Lane Field Hotel they said "the designers wanted a tall and thin design" or something to that effect. Since when is a 14 floor structure downtown "tall". I really think something with a bit more height and class should go in that location. I hope that rendering is not at all what the structure will look like. I find it hard to believe that the investors on this project don't think a nice 4 Star Hotel wouldn't work on this site. Or even an urban luxury brand like St. Regis or Ritz Carlton.

Do you guys think a luxury brand would work downtown on the waterfront right now?

[Derek]

Yes. San Diego desperately needs a big name luxury hotel.

[SDfan]

Do you guys think a luxury brand would work downtown on the waterfront right now?

No, downtown isn't a luxury scene. If we get any luxury brands its going to be in La Jolla, or Rancho Santa Fe. Just look at the retail downtown, it can barely support Coach. The dining and clubbing is nicer, but luxury brands need more than just nightlife. They need higher property values, and wealthier consumers. We won't get those brands until we get a mixture of a bigger corporate presence (aka, more HQ/class-a office lease holders), more international travelers (they spend more), and more luxury attractions (the zoo, seaworld, and PB aren't going to cut it with the upper echelons, -which is why middle class SoCali's and Arizonies will be our main market targets for now).

[SDfan]

Why they didn't start a taller building? Because it was height restrictions. Why can't have more than 30 or 40 floor?

I actually don't mind the shorter buildings on the bayfront, we already have a nice row from Bayside to Electra (soon to be extended down thanks to Bosa, and the Broadway complex). As long as they're thin, and well designed (this proposal looks not so nice, but it seems the developers have been told this by the committee, so hopefully they'll get cracking on it), it should be fine.

I think having a step is a nice way of layering the skyline (which is increasingly plateauing...).

[SDCAL]

No, downtown isn't a luxury scene. If we get any luxury brands its going to be in La Jolla, or Rancho Santa Fe. Just look at the retail downtown, it can barely support Coach. The dining and clubbing is nicer, but luxury brands need more than just nightlife. They need higher property values, and wealthier consumers. We won't get those brands until we get a mixture of a bigger corporate presence (aka, more HQ/class-a office lease holders), more international travelers (they spend more), and more luxury attractions (the zoo, seaworld, and PB aren't going to cut it with the upper echelons, -which is why middle class SoCali's and Arizonies will be our main market targets for now).

As someone who lives downtown, I couln't disagree with you more. Something like a JW Marriott or Mandarin Oriental would do fine with a bay view location after the embarcadero project is complete and that area becomes landscaped and visitor friendly. I encounter lots of international travelers downtown, and we seem to be headed in the right direction with the direct Japan airways flight in December. I'm not saying downtown San Diego should be a Mecca for super-luxury hotels, but to say one big high-end name can't make it on a prime bay-front location is selling dt sd short IMO. You mention Rancho Santa Fe, who the hell goes there for vacation? Isn't that primarily an exclusive residential enclave? I would see bay front downtown as a better prospect than rsf for a large luxury hotel.

The condo market downtown did sink pretty low and remains bleak for the mot part, but the one area that seems to have retained high values are the bay font luxury units like @ the grand at Santa Fe place towers. The price for prime waterfront condos downtown is comparable to luxury conos in major urban areas that support luxury hotels.

The current lane field plan calls for a Hilton garden inn and a Homewood Suites. I just stayed at a Hilton garden inn in the bay area on a business trip and it was a huge step down fom even Embassy Suites. To suggest these two low-grade business park type hotels are appropriate for some of the most expensive undeveloped waterfront real estate on the West Coast is absurd and an insult to this city.

[SDfan]

As someone who lives downtown, I couln't disagree with you more. Something like a JW Marriott or Mandarin Oriental would do fine with a bay view location after the embarcadero project is complete and that area becomes landscaped and visitor friendly. I encounter lots of international travelers downtown, and we seem to be headed in the right direction with the direct Japan airways flight in December. I'm not saying downtown San Diego should be a Mecca for super-luxury hotels, but to say one big high-end name can't make it on a prime bay-front location is selling dt sd short IMO. You mention Rancho Santa Fe, who the hell goes there for vacation? Isn't that primarily an exclusive residential enclave? I would see bay front downtown as a better prospect than rsf for a large luxury hotel.

The condo market downtown did sink pretty low and remains bleak for the mot part, but the one area that seems to have retained high values are the bay font luxury units like @ the grand at Santa Fe place towers. The price for prime waterfront condos downtown is comparable to luxury conos in major urban areas that support luxury hotels.

The current lane field plan calls for a Hilton garden inn and a Homewood Suites. I just stayed at a Hilton garden inn in the bay area on a business trip and it was a huge step down fom even Embassy Suites. To suggest these two low-grade business park type hotels are appropriate for some of the most expensive undeveloped waterfront real estate on the West Coast is absurd and an insult to this city.

Notice that everything you just said in your first paragraph (upgrades to downtown infrastructure, more international flights) are remedies to what I said needs to happen before we get anything more than another holiday inn. hahaha. So, nice try but you essentially proved my point. Downtown, currently, is not ready for the big time spenders.

And yes, Bosa's towers along the bayfront are expensive, and desirable places for second home buyers and retirees. But I don't see how that translates to a Ritz Carlton or a Mandarin Oriental being put up. The concept of "if you build it, they will come" cannot be applied to hoteliers, you need to have a viable attraction. And while San Diego has plenty of nice, middle income, and some nice high income locales, most of those either won't attract large swaths of high clientele (we have no times square, iconic structures, world famous "need to see before you die" places) or they aren't downtown (aka La Jolla, Coronado, beaches, RSF, RB, Torrey Pines). Why else do you think our most high end hoteliers are outside of downtown?

And I'm not selling the city short, I'm just looking at reality. Downtown San Diego is not a developed luxury market, and like I said, its going to need to see some key, fundamental changes to take place at the micro level before it can start attracting 5 star hotels, and big spending fat cats.

And keep in mind, we do quite well with the middle/upper middle market. It's done wonders for the economy, but don't be surprised when a Hilton is being built on the bayfront. Downtown isn't Manhattan, South Beach, or even La Jolla. It's nice, pleasant, pricey... but not 5 Star. That will take a decade or two more of maturity in the markets, and, again, changes to the dynamics of the area.

[HurricaneHugo]

In other downtown news, the Trolley is rearranging their lines next month. The green line will end at 12th and Imperial via Gaslamp, Convention Center, and Santa Fe Depot. The Orange line will terminate at Santa Fe Depot, and the Blue line will begin at America Plaza before heading to Tijuana.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/aug/13/new-trolley-routes-coming/

Graphic:
http://media.utsandiego.com/news/documents/2012/08/13/323761_1m12trolley.jpg

I think this is great, I love the low floor trains, and I hate that there was no direct Trolley to the Gaslamp area from Old Town/Mission Valley except for special events.

What's the plan for when the Midcoast expansion is complete?

[Streamliner]

What's the plan for when the Midcoast expansion is complete?

Good question, I haven't heard anything on that in a long while. I always thought it'd be an extension of the Blue Line, but maybe it'll get its own color.

[psychotron]

I'm pretty meh on the latest Lane Field renders. I too want something iconic, something with presence. This is prime real estate, SD's front door. I feel like there's somewhat of an "at least we're getting something" mentality within the former and current remnants of SDCC. Dream big, you only get one shot at it!

BTW, according to SANDAG, the midcoast extension will just extend the blue line.

http://www.sandag.org/uploads/projectid/projectid_250_14284.jpg

[SDCAL]

Notice that everything you just said in your first paragraph (upgrades to downtown infrastructure, more international flights) are remedies to what I said needs to happen before we get anything more than another holiday inn. hahaha. So, nice try but you essentially proved my point. Downtown, currently, is not ready for the big time spenders.

And yes, Bosa's towers along the bayfront are expensive, and desirable places for second home buyers and retirees. But I don't see how that translates to a Ritz Carlton or a Mandarin Oriental being put up. The concept of "if you build it, they will come" cannot be applied to hoteliers, you need to have a viable attraction. And while San Diego has plenty of nice, middle income, and some nice high income locales, most of those either won't attract large swaths of high clientele (we have no times square, iconic structures, world famous "need to see before you die" places) or they aren't downtown (aka La Jolla, Coronado, beaches, RSF, RB, Torrey Pines). Why else do you think our most high end hoteliers are outside of downtown?

And I'm not selling the city short, I'm just looking at reality. Downtown San Diego is not a developed luxury market, and like I said, its going to need to see some key, fundamental changes to take place at the micro level before it can start attracting 5 star hotels, and big spending fat cats.

And keep in mind, we do quite well with the middle/upper middle market. It's done wonders for the economy, but don't be surprised when a Hilton is being built on the bayfront. Downtown isn't Manhattan, South Beach, or even La Jolla. It's nice, pleasant, pricey... but not 5 Star. That will take a decade or two more of maturity in the markets, and, again, changes to the dynamics of the area.

I'm talking in the context of Lane Field which, by the time it's complete, the embarcadero infrastructure will be largely in place.

I still think despite SD not being 5 star overall, the market is big enough for one 5 star downtown.

Can we at least agree wasting Lane Field's prime locale on a "Homewood Suites" is just ghetto and absurd?

[SDfan]

I'm talking in the context of Lane Field which, by the time it's complete, the embarcadero infrastructure will be largely in place.

I still think despite SD not being 5 star overall, the market is big enough for one 5 star downtown.

Can we at least agree wasting Lane Field's prime locale on a "Homewood Suites" is just ghetto and absurd?

I can agree that its embarrassing, yes, haha.

[OneMetropolis]

I can agree that its embarrassing, yes, haha.

Typical of San Diego

[HurricaneHugo]

If it only was it's original height...

http://i46.tinypic.com/xbagaw.jpg

[mello]

Yeah it does look pretty stumpy. If the Navy Broadway Complex ever gets built that building would be overshadowed anyhow... I guess they just figured they didn't need 26 floors full of courtrooms and offices, that is a lot of bureaucrats to pack in to one place so I guess 16 floors does the trick.

[Dale]

For a little perspective: I was in San Diego, in 1990, and back THEN the buzz was how plans were AT LONG LAST coming together for Lane Field.

[Lipani]

^ Not surprising. This is the same city that turned down Miramar for a dollar.

[SDfan]

Looks like Bosa is going to start building soon:

Bosa condo tower to begin construction next year
By Jennifer Chung Klam, Special to The Daily Transcript
Thursday, August 30, 2012

A 41-story, 232-unit residential tower planned by Bosa Development at the southeast corner of Broadway and Pacific Highway has gotten the approval of the Centre City Development Corp. The $250 million project is tentatively scheduled to start next year, with completion in 2016. The starting price tag will be $750,000 per unit.

http://www.sddt.com/news/article.cfm?SourceCode=20120830crek&_t=Bosa+condo+tower+to+begin+construction+next+year&r=577