[SSLL]

From: http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/toronto/story.html?id=0eb142ca-190a-46e2-8cce-41f39f01ecee
____________
City you can barely find on a T-shirt
Bobbleheads, yes: Mississauga Mayor irked only Toronto souvenirs available
Natalie Alcoba, National Post
Published: Thursday, March 01, 2007
Tired of seeing Toronto souvenirs in Mississauga hotels, Mayor Hazel McCallion wants gift shops to start stocking their shelves with trinkets that promote her city.
Following a presentation by Mississauga Tourism to city council yesterday, Ms. McCallion aired a personal grievance: "Every hotel I go into in Mississauga, the only souvenirs I can buy are for Toronto."
She expressed hope that "some day" visitors to the booming suburban municipality would have the opportunity to pick up local souvenirs in hotels.

"I give you that as a challenge," she told members of the city's convention and visitor bureau. "It's not an easy one."
The city has been unsuccessful in its attempts to solve the issue because souvenir manufacturers have been reluctant to supply Mississauga-branded products, the Mayor said.
Indeed, at the Novotel hotel close to Mississauga's City Hall, the modest gift shop is packed with sweatshirts, T-shirts, baseball caps and wallets emblazoned with Toronto and Niagara Falls. In fact, save for a couple of black mugs with Mississauga inscribed on the side, visitors would think they were visiting somewhere else.
Owner Fred Allana said he had to make a batch of the mugs himself two years ago because he couldn't find any suppliers carrying Mississauga gear.
He inquired at City Hall about six years ago, he said, but smaller products such as key chains and magnets were not available. A line of city souvenirs and gifts -- including hats, T-shirts, pens and a Hazel McCallion bobblehead figurine -- are now available at City Hall or through the municipal Web site.
"I would love to carry [Mississauga souvenirs]," Mr. Allana said. "But from where should I buy it?" He is confident Mississauga items would sell, "because now, people have heard of Mississauga."
Eager to continue spreading the word, Mississauga Tourism intends to tap into the Ontario market by introducing the city as a leisure destination.
In the past, the Ontario Tourism magazine has been filled with advertising for such destinations as Hamilton, Brampton, Oakville and York Region--but no Mississauga. That is set to change, according to a plan unveiled yesterday to city council that includes purchasing ads in magazines and setting up a 1-800 line to track inquiries and collect feedback.
A guide of things to do and see in Mississauga is also included on the Mississauga Tourism Web site and a Mississauga Tourism Visitor Card grants discounts at local restaurants, hotels and entertainment venues.
"We knew that Mississauga was not a top-of-mind leisure destination and we probably never will be. However, we know that Mississauga is an ideal location that makes a lot of sense for folks when they're coming into the GTA," said Suzan Trabert McKay, CEO of Mississauga Tourism, a membership-based destination marketing organization that receives city funding.
Mississauga boasts about 50 hotels, including all the major chains, with competitive prices and local attractions, she said.
Last year, nearly $1.5-million in hotel room and meeting space revenue was generated through big-budget conferences, trade events such as the Wine and Cheese show and sports gatherings such as the Provincial Little League Championships.
As for doing something about Mississauga's apparent souvenir shortage, Mississauga Tourism embraced the challenge.
"We will find some way to address it, whether it be in the form of reviewing opportunities and partnerships with the city or with the private sector," Ms. Trabert McKay said.

[WhipperSnapper]

The city has been unsuccessful in its attempts to solve the issue because souvenir manufacturers have been reluctant to supply Mississauga-branded products, the Mayor said.


Huh? Doesn't make any sense. I'd definitely buy a t-shirt depicting Square One and parking lot

[HAMRetrofit]

What would a Mississauga souvenir entail?

Mississauga does not have any noteworthy architectual buildings or natural features.

Maybe a shirt that says:

Mississauga...Imagine we used to be farmland

or

Mississauga...Home of the world's nicest cul de sacs

[vid]

Wow, how anti-Mississauga can you get?!

I'm sure Mississauga has some park or university campuses that would make great post cards, or some nice historical street scenes that would line a nice ashtray, or something? :)

How about a Mayor Hazel Bobble Head Doll? :) She'd make a great bobble head doll!

[MolsonExport]

The city has been unsuccessful in its attempts to solve the issue because souvenir manufacturers have been reluctant to supply Mississauga-branded products, the Mayor said.


Huh? Doesn't make any sense. I'd definitely buy a t-shirt depicting Square One and parking lot


:jester:

[LordMandeep]

the only university in Mississauga is a university of Toronto campus.

[MolsonExport]

What Hazel needs to do is force the city of Toronto to sell only Mississausage souvenirs.

[vid]

Someone needs to found The University of Mississauga. It wille have the beste manicurede parkinge lote of alle the lande!

[habsfan]

talk about not having much to complain about. If the mayor of mississauga can only find this to complain about, then things must be going pretty damn well in his city. He should shut up and work on other things!

[vid]

talk about not having much to complain about. If the mayor of mississauga can only find this to complain about, then things must be going pretty damn well in his city. He should shut up and work on other things!

She.

http://www.worldmayor.com/finalists2004_pics/mississauga_mayor.jpg

121 years old and still going! :tup:

[SteelTown]

I've got a souvenir idea! A silly putty of Hazel face so we can smooth out the wrinkles.....oh the joy!

[Taller Better]

What Hazel needs to do is force the city of Toronto to sell only Mississausage souvenirs.


:haha: :haha: and Dried Apple Dolls with Saint Hazel's likeness....

[vid]

I love dried apple dolls! I made on in Grade three, and named it after my teacher, Mrs Wong! :D

It looked just like her. Wrinkly, white, and Asian! :D It had a candied pineapple hat!

[WhipperSnapper]

If the mayor of mississauga can only find this to complain about, then things must be going pretty damn well in his city.

600 million in the bank and 85% approval rate (Mississaugans just don't know any better)

[Taller Better]

Missy is lucky not to have the rather expensive inner city problems that Toronto has to deal with.

[LordMandeep]

She has been mayor since the late 70's and she gets 90%+ approval...

she hasen't campaigned in over a decade. I think the mayor of Brampton wants to be mayor forever. She can keep winning as she is that old nice lady that everyone likes...

[TOBoy]

Double post

[TOBoy]

Given the street life in Mississauga, its probably because no one wants to venture outside and check out the campaign signs to find out who else is running.

[niwell]

It seems that Hazel isn't doing a horrible job (honestly, Miss. is probably one of the better 'burbs in North America), but she isn't exactly progressive. If you want your city to be worthy of tourist dollars, maybe stop complaining about it and institute some programs that will increase the likelyhood of Mississauga being seen as a destination. Highrise condos (some with urban podiums even) around a mall are great and all, but there is so much wasted potential in the city.

[Doady]

The thread title says "less TO souvenirs", but this is never even suggested in the article and puts an entirely different spin on it. Good job SSLL.

You know, a Mississauga mayor trying to promote Mississauga and calling for few Mississauga souvenirs to be sold within Mississauga souvenir shops is hardly an attack on Toronto. It also not a hollow attempt to change outsider's (or residents' for that matter) perception of the city, since she is actively trying to create an identity for Mississauga in some real ways, which after all, is the main point of Mississauga City Centre. And isn't trying to create a distinct dense urban environment what all suburbs should be doing?

But of course if you are opposed to the concept of Mississauga City Centre or a future Downtown Mississauga (and many of you are) and just want Mississauga to be nothing more than a nondescript soulless bedroom community, then I can see why you would be opposed to the idea of Mississauga souvenirs as well..

[matt602]

Time to accept the fact that Mississauga is just Toronto's sprawl bitch. In fact everything West of Toronto to Hamilton is Toronto's bitch in due time.

[HAMRetrofit]

No one is opposed to Mississauga building a dense urban community, most are all for it. Despite this fact, most are critical of the sprawl the city continues to subsidize. As well, most are critical of how terrible the Mississauga city center is because it just does not understand the very principles of urban design. Maybe this will change in the future but right now there is nothing worth celebrating in a souvenir.

Most are just critical of Mississauga because they care and want to see it become something better. Until that time it will be continually ridiculed by urbanists. Sorry.

[LordMandeep]

Mississauga is quite a dense burb especially the older area like Bloor and Dixie...

[M II A II R II K]

There isn't really anything unique or special about Mississauga to have souvenirs to reflect an identity that isn't there.

The place was recently thrown up at the last minute, and the mayor is probably 4x older than the city itself.

Although as a standalone city I wouldn't be surprised if it's the 3rd most populous city in Ontario.

[jeicow]

At least Hazel is encouraging tourism growth in the city. She's got a point- outside of Port Credit and Streetsville there isn't much "Mississauga" goods stores. I'm always surprised in Oakville how much 'Oakville' crap they have. But the least I can say is at least we're not Hamilton. Hamilton- We saw a fish in the bay, once, a few years ago. We swear it was alive.

[jeicow]

I love dried apple dolls! I made on in Grade three, and named it after my teacher, Mrs Wong! :D
You should have spent more time learning spelling in grade three. :whip:

[the dude]

If the mayor of mississauga can only find this to complain about, then things must be going pretty damn well in his city.

600 million in the bank and 85% approval rate (Mississaugans just don't know any better)

who has $600M in the bank? hazel or the city? how'd the old girl make all that dough?

i've always thought that she and cherry would make a nice couple. :yuck:

[vid]

You should have spent more time learning spelling in grade three. :whip:

Because I typoed 'one'? Yeah, that really made me look like a child. Man, typoing a word?? What an uneducated loser I am! :D I wish I was succinct and articulate like you, master!!

[Taller Better]

You should have spent more time learning spelling in grade three. :whip:

He may be a jokester, but vid has an extensive knowledge of the English language. ;)

[someone123]

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/825/hazelcollageld0.png

[Taller Better]

She's a handsome looking brute!

[caltrane74]

Hazel is the Mississauga Souvenir... :)

[LordMandeep]

i am most related to Madonna...

[miketoronto]

Hazel has to remember Mississauga is a SUBURB. There is no need for Mississauga souvenirs, because Mississauga is really just a section of Toronto, that happens to be in a different city council area.

Hazel has to stop thinking Mississauga is some special place.

Toronto is the centre, and Toronto souvenirs should be sold in Mississauga.
Tourists don't come here to see Mississauga. They here to see the real city, which is Toronto.

Whats next, Burlington demanding Burlington souvenirs.

I tell you, may be time for Toronto to annex Mississauga into our city council.
Mississauga needs to be quieted down and must understand who the boss is, and that is the City of Toronto, not some sprawl burb that thinks a mall makes a downtown.

[waterloowarrior]

Hazel has to remember Mississauga is a SUBURB. There is no need for Mississauga souvenirs, because Mississauga is really just a section of Toronto, that happens to be in a different city council area.


lol funny that you in particular would say something like that... so I guess that means that jobs and growth aren't really being 'stolen' by the 905 since it's just another section of Toronto

[miketoronto]

Hazel should be bowing down to the City of Toronto. Because her little burb would be nothing if not for Toronto.

Anyway its not like tourists are going to be sending Mississauga postcards even if you could get them somewhere other then the Mississauga City Hall.

People identify with Toronto, not Mississauga, and for tourists Mississauga will forever just be a section of Toronto.

I just don't know why Mississauga just can't understand this. You don't see Leaside, Forest Hill, Pickering, Scarborough, North York, Markham, etc getting all upset because people consider those places part of Toronto and buy postcards of Toronto.

Only Mississauga. And what this shows, is that Mississauga knows they are just a suburb and they are insecure and have to try to pretend they are a city, when deep down they know they are not.

Deep down Mississauga knows their heart if Nathan Phillips Square, not their little civic square at Mississauga City Hall. And it just bugs them to much to admit it.

Thats o.k. Mississauga residents know its just a burb. Its only the city gov trying to pretend its something else.

[LordMandeep]

to the area mississauga is a city, to the rest its a burb.

[caltrane74]

lol funny that you in particular would say something like that... so I guess that means that jobs and growth aren't really being 'stolen' by the 905 since it's just another section of Toronto

You are the smartest guy on earth!!!

[LordMandeep]

Toronto mixed in with its surrounding cities that are suburban in nature but have huge populations creates the Greater Toronto Area. It has 6 million people and its an vital part of the nations economey.


Is that netural enough???

[miketoronto]

Mississauga has to understand the only real city west of Toronto, is Hamilton.

Between Toronto and Hamilton, its all "TORONTO", and Mississauga will just have to understand Toronto postcards will be sold in Mississauga.


Not even Mississauga residents consider Mississauga a city. They know its just a burb of Toronto. I deal with Mississauga residents all day at work, and they don't even consider the Square One area a "downtown". They always talk about going "Downtown" as in Toronto.

Mississauga can go on all they want, but having 700,000 people does not make them a city.

We can not rewrite history. This area begun thanks to Toronto, and Mississauga will have to remember that, and always be greatfull to the central city for what they have. Because without Toronto Mississauga would still be nothing but wilderness.

[HAMRetrofit]

If Mississauga wanted to gain some integrity is would actually look at cities like Toronto and Hamilton to learn what makes them unique.

The Golden Horseshoe functions as one big city region. There are two real autonomous urban centers: Toronto and Hamilton, while the rest of the cities are basically suburbs of these two urban centers. The suburbs vary in complexity and may almost resemble cities at times, but their growth is still rooted to the origins of Toronto and Hamilton. It is difficult to draw the exact line where the Toronto suburbs begin and the Hamilton suburbs begin because commuters freely move within the Greater Golden Horseshoe City Region. The characteristics of Toronto and Hamilton basically are:

Toronto - Canada's finantial heart
Hamilton - Canada's manufacturing heart

[vid]

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/825/hazelcollageld0.png

Sting!! :ack:

[jeicow]

Toronto - Canada's finantial heart
Hamilton - Canada's manufacturing heart

Actually, Mississauga surpassed Hamilton in total manufacturing back in the mid-90s. Ever since the Hamilon economy nose-dived Mississauga has been building up. There's a report on the Mississauga website detailing it all. I think that TO still has more total manufacturing tho then both.

[jeicow]

I don't understand why people don't read these articles before posting. Hazel never said that she wants to sell less TO souvenirs, just that she wanted to sell more Mississauga souvenirs. She also wants to promote the city as a gateway to the GTA, not as just "Mississauga". I don't get why there's all this shit flying about how Mississauga needs to sit down and shut up since it's just clearly trying to diversify the city's revenue base.

I also fear the day that Mississauga gets sucked up by TO. Toronto is such a mismanaged city that has its priorities mixed up beyond belief (NO DRL even mentioned in the RTES). Mississauga is a much more conservative, straight thinking city that actually can get things accomplished. Toronto would just screw things up and create an eastern Scarborough.

[miketoronto]

Mississauga is turning into an old mature inner suburb now. Lets see how long they keep the taxes down and no debt once they have to start replacing things and have no development fees to pay for it.

Mississauga also does not have to deal with all the issues Toronto has to. Places like Mississauga just send the poor to Toronto to be taken care of. They don't actually provide the services in their own suburb. Toronto has to take care of so much more then the suburbs have to.

One only has to look at South Mississauga to see everything will not be shinny and well kept forever in Mississauga.

Mississauga is no gateway to the GTA. The GTA starts in Burlington, not in Mississauga.

Time for another municipal merger, to quiet down Toronto's suburbs. Our suburbs are getting to powerfull now, and I would merge or break up Mississauga into much smaller municipalities, before they get any more ideas besides wanting to sell Mississauga t-shirts.

I would have no problem with places wanting to sell things that relate to their community. Markham has nice little postcards of downtown Markham and stuff. But they don't make such a big deal about it like Mississauga. And they don't try to act all seperate.

I really have no respect for Mississauga because Hazel is to into making sure Mississauga has nothing to do with Toronto. And that is not right.

The whole reason the Living Arts Centre was built, was because Hazel wanted to stop Mississauga residents from going into downtown Toronto to see theatre shows. Lucky her idea never took off, and you still have to go into Toronto to see the big shows. But her idea from the start was to steal shows from Toronto and stop her residents from leaving city limits.

That is why I think people have an issue with Mississauga.

I have souvenirs from the former Scarborough. I have no problem with that, because those souvenirs were made mostly for the residents of Scarborough to have something to showcase their community and history. Not to pretend we were not part of Toronto or anything like that. And you could only get the souvenirs at the Civic Centre.

[HAMRetrofit]

It does not matter that Mississauga surpased Hamilton in total manufacturing. What I meant was the origins of Canadian manufacturing began in Hamilton and left for greener pastures in Mississauga in the 80's and 90's. Historically this can never be changed that is why Hamilton is Canada's manufacturing heart. Plus Hamilton is still the base for essential Canadian commodities such as metal products...etc.

[LordMandeep]

thats true in the Barmpton guradian the paper talked about there is never any other limited release film in theaters in Brampton.

A guy wrote in a letter, "Remember were Brainless in Suburbia, all we care about is gas prices and the local wal-mart. All the cultured people live downtown"

That was the only interesting thing ever published in the god for saken paper.

Plus the burbs really don't pay for anything apart from roads, a little tranist, utilities, some basic basic basic social care. They really don't face much costs. Also do you notice that we pay super super super high property taxes...and we don't get shit compared to like people in Toronto get.

The Burbs are really screwed finanically as they can't pay any other costs like tranist or any social services at all without jacking up property taxes 5-7% in a year.

[MolsonExport]

Mississausage is to Toronto what Laval is to Montreal, and what Surrey is to Vancouver.

A big-assed 'burb. Big, but still just a 'burb.

[SD]

I also fear the day that Mississauga gets sucked up by TO. Toronto is such a mismanaged city that has its priorities mixed up beyond belief (NO DRL even mentioned in the RTES). Mississauga is a much more conservative, straight thinking city that actually can get things accomplished. Toronto would just screw things up and create an eastern Scarborough.

Mississauga is as badly managed as Toronto, if not moreso. Years of shoddy development is now catching up to the city, which can no longer really benefit from huge development fees.

Toronto isn't perfect, but it does a better job than Mississauga, which is now finally trying to compensate for decades of less than stellar planning.

[LordMandeep]

i know massive property taxes tens of thousands of homes built in the last 4 years, but not a libary has been built.

[waterloowarrior]

i know massive property taxes tens of thousands of homes built in the last 4 years, but not a libary has been built.

are you referring to Mississauga?

http://www.mississauga.ca/portal/residents/library?paf_gear_id=9700018&itemId=55600044
http://www.mississauga.ca/portal/residents/branchlibraries?paf_gear_id=9700018&itemId=7400162
http://www.mississauga.ca/portal/residents/branchlibraries?paf_gear_id=9700018&itemId=5000190


??

[Policy Wonk]

maybe she would like the Long Island t-shirt I saw years ago, it had a picture of a junkie on a stoop with the text "Not Long Island"

[citizen j]

Mississauga is turning into an old mature inner suburb now. Lets see how long they keep the taxes down and no debt once they have to start replacing things and have no development fees to pay for it.


I think Hazel is already starting to shift her rhetoric precisely because of that urban maturation. If you compare her recent policy statements with those of a decade ago when farmland ripe for development was more plentiful within the city's borders, you'll see she's moving in that direction already. Looking politically more like Toronto and less like Brampton. And more willing to cooperate with other mayors on issues like public transit and lobbying the federal and provincial governments for transit cash.

[LordMandeep]

i was talking about Brampton...alls of it money is coming from development fees and yearly 5% property tax hikes and they only thing they can do is build roads and schools...
Nothing else...

anyways Mississauga is heading on the right track.

[miketoronto]

The issue I have with Mississauga is not just about their view twords Toronto. Its their view twords the entire region.

Mississauga does not even respect its neighbour Brampton for example. Last year Mississauga actually reduced service on the Hurontario bus into Brampton Shoppers World on purpose, eventhough buses were jam packed. But Mississauga did not care, because people should not be going to Brampton and Misssissauga feels they should not pay for service going the whole 2KM into Brampton to the transit terminal.

Its little issues that Mississauga really acts stupid about, and does nothing to work together with fellow neighbours. They want to be totally seperate.

[M II A II R II K]

Next they'll propose to become the province of mississauga

[LordMandeep]

True few buses every go in to each others areas.

There are many many people who go in and between those two area.

There are 1.15 million people between them both.

[vid]

The way the GTA has grown, the entire region should have one large transit system. Get rid of the buses being scared of political boundaries bullshit.

[LordMandeep]

I doubt the TTC will ever fuse with the other areas. It is worried that if it is, that public transit would be all focused on the burbs while the inner city is ignored.

[vid]

Our transit covers rural areas here, but it still focuses mainly on the city. That's where all the customers are.

[LordMandeep]

i am certain if all of the services went under one name, there would be alot of infighting between the suburbs and the cities...

Remember the Burbs want to create downtowns of there own and they want LRT's and Subways as well. People in Toronto want more LRT's and Subways as well.

Who gets it first???

[vid]

Toronto has more people, therefore, gets priority. That's how it usually is.

[raisethehammer]

At least Hazel is encouraging tourism growth in the city. She's got a point- outside of Port Credit and Streetsville there isn't much "Mississauga" goods stores. I'm always surprised in Oakville how much 'Oakville' crap they have. But the least I can say is at least we're not Hamilton. Hamilton- We saw a fish in the bay, once, a few years ago. We swear it was alive.

believe me, the feeling is mutual.
I'll pack up and leave Hamilton in a heartbeat if we ever start mimicking the dullness and soulessness of Missy.
Maybe you guys can sell tee shirts with pictures of parking lots and highways on them.

She doesn't like TO's souveniers, but doesn't mind taking all the overflow of businesses and residents who would have preferred to locate in Toronto had it not run out of room.

and by the way, check your 'fish facts' about Hamilton Harbour. I'd gladly inform you, but what's the use of trying to inform someone who thinks Square One is a legit downtown.

[Doady]

believe me, the feeling is mutual.
I'll pack up and leave Hamilton in a heartbeat if we ever start mimicking the dullness and soulessness of Missy.
Maybe you guys can sell tee shirts with pictures of parking lots and highways on them.

LOL, parkings lots and highways.... this is funny coming from someone from Hamilton, a city with a declining public transit system that has worse ridership than Mississauga's.

As much sprawl as Mississauga has allowed, it never let its downtown areas deteriate to the same extent as Hamilton did, in favour of sprawl.

[vid]

Mississauga has a downtown??? :O

[HAMRetrofit]

The very fact that people think Mississauga is OK is extremely problematic.

It is a suburban nightmare with no autonomy at all built by people, planners, and politians that don't understand how cities function. Every square inch of it built by corporate greed and ugliness.

I have travelled the globe and have not found a place with less understanding of beauty and human scale than Mississauga. It is a place that only caters to machines with absolutely no public realm. It does not deserve souvenirs because it is a despicable cesspool in its current form. I can't wait till they build those two white turds right in the middle of it so people can laugh at it further...

I only criticize Mississauga because I think it can do a lot better.

[Doady]

Mississauga has a downtown??? :O


Port Credit, Streetsville, Cooksville... all old neighbourhoods that are still in good shape, unlike inner city Hamilton.

[Doady]

The very fact that people think Mississauga is OK is extremely problematic.

It is a suburban nightmare with no autonomy at all built by people, planners, and politians that don't understand how cities function. Every square inch of it built by corporate greed and ugliness.

I have travelled the globe and have not found a place with less understanding of beauty and human scale than Mississauga. It is a place that only caters to machines with absolutely no public realm. It does not deserve souvenirs because it is a despicable cesspool in its current form. I can't wait till they build those two white turds right in the middle of it so people can laugh at it further...

I only criticize Mississauga because I think it can do a lot better.

Haha, so Mississauga is the worst in the world now. I would usually get mad but this is actually quite funny. The Mississauga-bashing has really been taken to the next level now. The possibilities are limitless.

[raisethehammer]

Port Credit, Streetsville, Cooksville... all old neighbourhoods that are still in good shape, unlike inner city Hamilton.

yea, you're right.
Locke, Westdale, James North, Concession St, Ottawa St, James South, Hess Village, Augusta St, Durand, Corktown, Kirkendall, Strathcona and Bayfront neighbourhoods are all in crappy shape.

[vid]

At least Inner City Hamilton is in the Inner City. Mississauga doesn't really have an inner city. It has a business park with some condo's sprinkled about.

[LordMandeep]

Actually Southern old mississauga is quite dense and alright...but so were most old suburbs.

[Doady]

yea, you're right.
Locke, Westdale, James North, Concession St, Ottawa St, James South, Hess Village, Augusta St, Durand, Corktown, Kirkendall, Strathcona and Bayfront neighbourhoods are all in crappy shape.


Are you denying that Hamilton has a lot of old neighbourhoods in bad shape, especially in the north end of the city?

It is not that I think Hamilton is a bad city, quite the opposite really. I just think it hypocritical the fervour with which you guys bash all aspects of Mississauga, especially urban development and transportation, when your own city has been doing a very poor job as well, in these very same respects.

Hazel McCallion knows Mississauga needs lots of improvement, and she wants Mississauga to be more than just another suburb, but it is too bad so many of you don't support this.

[raisethehammer]

finally, a comment with some substance. lol.
I don't bash every aspect of Missy.
Hazel is 30 years too late. It would take an incredible amount of work to turn 6,8 and 10 lane streets into 'downtown style' streets: 1 lane each way with street parking, trees, benches and a continuous street wall of urban looking buildings.
Look at the new projects such as Concord Place in downtown Toronto. Right in the middle of TO, yet it feels like Missy or Laval, QC. urban development is about more than marilyn monroe towers and transit.
The physical feel of streets like Queen or Spadina in TO and James or King in Hamilton seem to me to be impossible to recreate in a new development.
Obviously new apartment towers with ground level shops is a much better use of land than sprawling suburbs. It would have been nice for Hazel to have a vision to extend the style of Mimico or Port Credit northward 30 years ago.
Imagine Missy today? Probabaly would have covered half the land area and had many more walkable, cycle-able, urban neighbourhoods.
She wasted a ton of money and a grand opportunity.
Now as infrastructure gets old, Missy will see rapidly rising taxes and rapidly increasing water main breaks as most of the city's infrastructure gets 'old' at the same time.
Once the 'wealthiest city in Canada', the future is not very bright. And the woman who sat at the helm of the rotten leadership is held up like some municipal genius.
Lucky for her, she won't be around for another 30 years when the city begins to implode and suffer through peak oil all at the same time.
Your lakefront is awesome....other than that, I just see bad planning and a wasted opportunity. I don't mean that to be offensive, nor do I think my own city has been planning properly in recent years. Luckily we have a huge lower city that was fully developed before the turn of the century and despite the best efforts of Hamilton city council, will be tough to ruin.

[matt602]

That's pretty much what I would have said, RTH. Cheers.

[HAMRetrofit]

Please excuse my comments above I am just enraged by the fact people think that the suburban development that occurs in Southern Ontario is okay.

This is not just about Mississauga. My criticism extends to all other municipalities that have engaged in the same corrupt activity as Mississauga. So please substitute 'Southern Ontario suburban development' for where I mentioned 'Mississauga' above.

I agree with Raisethehammer's comments above we are all heading for hard times ahead as the suburban living arrangement deteriorates over the next few decades. The sooner we start rebuilding real cities the better off we will all be.

[miketoronto]

Mississauga is already turning into the have been suburb. Many families are bypassing Mississauga for newer suburbs, just like they were doing with North York, Scarborough, etc before.

I know many people who have left Mississauga for example for Brampton, Oakville, etc, because they are considered newer and more high-class areas then Mississauga.

Best thing Mississauga could do is actually partner up with Toronto to work on retention programs for families.

[vid]

How about amalgamating Toronto and Mississississississaugaga? With 3.45 million people, it will be the third largest city in Canada and the US!

[flar]

The 30 or 40 year old suburban subdivisions may become a very serious problem, not just with crumbling infrastructure, but as the new ghettos. This is already happening to some extent.

[LordMandeep]

just because a subdivsion is 30-40 years old does not mean it becomes Ghetoo. may old neighbourhold is 40 years old and it is still quite nice, and i find it much better then the new subdivsion i live in.

Suburbs suck, people leave thier trash outside and litter everywhere. You see a human outside and you think you say bigfoot.


However Summer makes up for it.

[flar]

I'm not saying it's ghetto 'cause it's 40 years old, or that all subdivisions will become ghettos. The potential exists for some of those subdivisions to become traps with declining property values, large populations of low income people, rising crime, etc..

[vid]

One of our older suburbs is full of poor natives, discarded syringes and cart filled creeks.

Don't let Mississauga become the County Park of Toronto.

[miketoronto]

There are many nice places in the old suburbs to, like central North York, south Scarborough, etc.

However these places are close to central Toronto.

Alot of the newer suburbs are not near to anything, but more sprawl.

Infact all the neighbourhoods with the highest price increases in property value this quarter in Greater Toronto were in inner city Toronto and inner suburban Toronto(North York, and Scarborough). Mississauga is not as popular as they think :)

[vid]

Someone wrote into Thunder Bay Source this week, saying our city council should look to Mississauga to learn how to run a city! :haha:

Because we're a successful suburb of Toronto, too! :P

[LordMandeep]

true but it will cost you much more then a regular house in Brampton to live in Yonge/Eglinton.

[jeicow]

Infact all the neighbourhoods with the highest price increases in property value this quarter in Greater Toronto were in inner city Toronto and inner suburban Toronto(North York, and Scarborough).
Rosedale and Leaside- the typical GTA suburban community :rolleyes:

Mississauga is not as popular as they think :)
No, Mississauga has just got to rich for their blood. Hamilton is the new Mississauga of the 00s, just cheaper, older, and falling apart.

[Cambridgite]

Here's are some slogans that could be used for Mississauga souvenirs...

Mississauga- Biting the hand that feeds for over 30 years!

Mississauga- Discover the world's largest suburb!

Mississauga- Not Toronto:notacrook:

[MolsonExport]

Mississauga: Young City; Old Bag Mayor.

[BigSlim]

Hi there. Let me just say this. It is not to late for Mississauga to become a legitimate city with bustiling downtown type streets and beautifal architecture. If this is what everyone thinks constitutes what a legitimite city should have. Mississauga was only formed in 1974. Making it only a little older than 30 years. I wish everyone would just relax and try to show me pictures of what your city looked like at 30 years old. That would be a joke. We will have our own identity, therefore your eventually just going to have to except it. I know you want Mississauga to just conform to Toronto to increase all of your egos, but it's not going to happen. We will continue to build our condos, take your jobs and then build bigger office towers here. We will never be as big as Toronto, but we will be newer, cleaner and safer. I believe MikeToronto said that we would be nothing if it wasn't for Toronto. I agree with him. We did spawn from Toronto. Something always needs to spawn from something. People spawn from other people and become bigger and better from the people they spawn from. It will happen here in Mississauga. We will be a World Class City one day and we will get the Olympics b4 Toronto ever does. Eat our pollution Toronto...the wind blows from west to east.

[Doady]

Mississauga: The Birthplace of Karla Homolka

Mississauga: All white, all wigger

Mississauga: We don't like Fudge-O's, Oreos are okay, crackers are better

Mississauga's mayor: Proud to be an Aryan and so should you.

Mississaugaland ist frei!

Mississauga: Hurricane Hazel is watching you!

Mississauga City Hall: an animal farmhouse?

Mississauga: Where "Question Period" takes on a whole new meaning.

Mississauga: dysTOpia!

miSSiSSauga...

[Cambridgite]

Hi there. Let me just say this. It is not to late for Mississauga to become a legitimate city with bustiling downtown type streets and beautifal architecture. If this is what everyone thinks constitutes what a legitimite city should have. Mississauga was only formed in 1974. Making it only a little older than 30 years. I wish everyone would just relax and try to show me pictures of what your city looked like at 30 years old. That would be a joke. We will have our own identity, therefore your eventually just going to have to except it. I know you want Mississauga to just conform to Toronto to increase all of your egos, but it's not going to happen. We will continue to build our condos, take your jobs and then build bigger office towers here. We will never be as big as Toronto, but we will be newer, cleaner and safer. I believe MikeToronto said that we would be nothing if it wasn't for Toronto. I agree with him. We did spawn from Toronto. Something always needs to spawn from something. People spawn from other people and become bigger and better from the people they spawn from. It will happen here in Mississauga. We will be a World Class City one day and we will get the Olympics b4 Toronto ever does. Eat our pollution Toronto...the wind blows from west to east.

My beef with Mississauga is not that it's a suburb of Toronto or that it's trying to create an image for itself. My beef is the arrogant way people from Mississauga say "Mississauga has nothing to do with Toronto" or "Mississauga is not a suburb of Toronto. It's in Peel Region!" Come on. Are political boundaries how do define what is suburban and what's not? This points to an insecurity that people in Mississauga have about their "city". Political boundaries are the only reason that Mississauga is not Toronto. The insecurity I mentioned is exactly why Mississauga has its own skyline now. If Toronto expanded its city limits fast enough to keep up with its sprawl, it would not have to worry about parasites like Mississauga. I doubt Mississauga will ever have any recognition as a city, no matter how much of a net importer of employment it becomes. Toronto is the central city, and unfortunately, your "downtown" is a mall surrounded by high rises. The skyline is impressive, don't get me wrong, but the street life sucks and the architecture is goofy-looking at best. By the way, even Cambridge has better architecture than Mississauga, and we're nothing even close to world-class. If Mississauga wants to market itself as urban, it will have to turn its focus to the towns whose identities were stolen by Mississauga (ie. Streetsville and Port Credit).

"We will never be as big as Toronto, but we will be newer, cleaner, and safer." :haha:
This says it all. Firstly, Mississauga became so popular for the reason that people perceive what's newer to be safer. With the high automobile use and pollution being generated in Mississauga, it's hardly cleaner. Mississauga has no ghettos not because it's a great city, but because Toronto is ultimately the city who has to take responsibility for poverty. Think about it. All of the homeless shelters are located in Toronto. Same with soup kitchens, etc. Panhandlers aren't going to stand on Mavis Road waving a cup when it gets one pedestrian every hour. The cars will just drive right past them. The era of public housing was in the 1960s and 1970s. Mississauga basically didn't exist back then, and as a result, the city has built mostly middle and upper class housing. This doesn't mean there aren't poor people who make their living in the Sauga. But they can't live there. The poor are concentrated in the inner suburbs of Toronto (Etobicoke, the various Yorks, Scarborough) because that's when lower end housing was built. Mississauga needs to get off its "self-sufficiency" high-horse and realize how unhealthy a relationship it has with its neighbors.

[jeicow]

The insecurity I mentioned is exactly why Mississauga has its own skyline now.
You know when you hate someone SOOOOO much and don't know what to do, the only answer of course is to build a 30 floor building :koko:

If Toronto expanded its city limits fast enough to keep up with its sprawl, it would not have to worry about parasites like Mississauga. I doubt Mississauga will ever have any recognition as a city, no matter how much of a net importer of employment it becomes. Toronto is the central city, and unfortunately, your "downtown" is a mall surrounded by high rises.

By the way, even Cambridge has better architecture than Mississauga, and we're nothing even close to world-class.
Uh, last time I checked, Cambridge is part of a suburb of Kitchener now buddy. You might have been something at one point, but look at the sprawl that has become Cambridge and the fact that most of those people are commuting to Waterloo and Kitchener to find work.

Firstly, Mississauga became so popular for the reason that people perceive what's newer to be safer.
Talking out your ass again buddy. Mississauga IS the safest of the 15 biggest cities in Canada. Go look it up for yourself. We have a murder rate that's lower than Halifax (both per. capita and absolute values)

Mississauga has no ghettos not because it's a great city, but because Toronto is ultimately the city who has to take responsibility for poverty. Think about it. All of the homeless shelters are located in Toronto. Same with soup kitchens, etc. Panhandlers aren't going to stand on Mavis Road waving a cup when it gets one pedestrian every hour.
First off, have you ever taken the Gardiner into TO? There are panhandlers at every highway exit from Bathurst till' the Don pretty much 24/7 (the amount at each depends on where the big events of the day are). Second of all, there is a group of homeless who beg at different Mississauga highway exits, mainly Cawthra/QEW but sometimes also at Erin Mills/403 (I don't use the other exits often so I'm not sure if there are other there.

Your comment about poverty in Peel is pure ignorance. It's ironic that you used Mavis Road in your example because I can name three different shelters right off the top of my head located on that street alone. The only reason the poverty crisis in TO seems so obvious is the fact that there is such a huge homeless/street people problem that it's glaring in your face. Mississauga (and pretty much every 905 municipality) all are currently dealing with their own homeless and poverty problems but the fact it's not in your face 24/7, everyone gets the impression that it exists. The waiting list for social housing in Peel is currently 15-20 years, while in Toronto its closer to about 5 years. The reason for this huge gap? Peel supplies over $40 million a year to Toronto to subsidize TORONTO'S social assistance and social housing programs. That kind of money, if we in Peel could hold onto it, would mean that we could build two or three new buildings a year, and be able to afford to the ones we already have. But no, Toronto takes the money. Since I'm going to guess that you'll bring up the infamous Toronto is under funded by the province argument, if you read the Ontario Coalition Against Poverty's report from last year, Peel is the most under funded region in the GTA when it comes to social programs (and that's before the pooling takes affect). Sure the Liberals are going to phase the pooling out in 4-10 years, but of course, the $160-$400 million that we ship off to the east every year is the meantime is meant as a gesture of peace :sly:

The era of public housing was in the 1960s and 1970s. Mississauga basically didn't exist back then, and as a result, the city has built mostly middle and upper class housing.
The fact is that most of Peel's housing was built within the last 20 years. As a result, we learned from the mistakes of cities from around the world, and knew that if huge massive complexes of social housing were put together, than generally only bad things will happen. This is why most of the buildings are integrated into already established communities, and don't look like your typical Regent Park Prison building, but like middle-class apartments. The fact that you don't see it doesn't mean it's not there.

Mississauga needs to get off its "self-sufficiency" high-horse and realize how unhealthy a relationship it has with its neighbours.
Yaw, because Toronto is everything in the world buddy? You wonder why the rest of Canada hates TO?

[Doady]

The era of public housing was in the 1960s and 1970s. Mississauga basically didn't exist back then, and as a result, the city has built mostly middle and upper class housing.

Mississauga had a population of 172,000 in 1971 and 250,000 in 1976, and 315,000 in 1981.

Almost all of Mississauga south of Burnhamthorpe was built during the 70's or before that, during the era of "lower class" housing, and is as a result full of such housing.

Mississauga overall has by far the lowest average household income in the 905, lower than even the old city of Toronto.

[Cambridgite]

Mississauga had a population of 172,000 in 1971 and 250,000 in 1976, and 315,000 in 1981.

Almost all of Mississauga south of Burnhamthorpe was built during the 70's or before that, during the era of "lower class" housing, and is as a result full of such housing.

Mississauga overall has by far the lowest average household income in the 905, lower than even the old city of Toronto.

Very well then. I stand corrected on the poverty issue.

[Cambridgite]

Uh, last time I checked, Cambridge is part of a suburb of Kitchener now buddy. You might have been something at one point, but look at the sprawl that has become Cambridge and the fact that most of those people are commuting to Waterloo and Kitchener to find work.


Man, you'd think after living in a large suburb you'd realize that they don't function exclusively as bedroom communities. Often suburbs find their origins as bedroom communities, but they later attract industrial/commercial development and become commuting destinations of their own. But I guess you weren't aware of that. It is true that thousands of people from Cambridge commute to Kitchener-Waterloo every day. But I guess you didn't know that there are also a ton of people doing the reverse of that. So if you're going to use commuting patterns, is Cambridge a suburb of KW or is KW a suburb of Cambridge? It's irrelevant, especially when tons of people from Toronto reverse commute to Mississauga and other suburbs. The issue is where was whose growth spawned from whom? Cambridge was originally 3 isolated towns, Hespeler, Preston, and Galt. Galt has architectural beauty far more astounding than anything found around square one. which was exactly my point!!!!! Indeed, the construction of the 401 and highway 8, along with the mass movement to automobiles integrated commuting patterns between all of these towns, along with KW, and spurred additional suburban development into Cambridge. I have seen models of regional growth that have shown this in the past few decades. The tri-cities are now a continuous entity and traffic flows freely (or congested, I should say) at all borders. At no point in my post did I ever say that Cambridge doesn't have its fair share of sprawl. By the way, Cambridge's mayor also does the whole "we have nothing to do with Kitchener" thing. Cambridge was the only city in the tri-cities that didn't support keeping the KW symphony afloat, even though 20% of the people who attend those shows are from Cambridge! Cambridge is biting the hand that feeds. Does that make it right? No! But I'm not making excuses for Cambridge when they do it, so why should you make excuses for McCallion when she pretends Mississauga has nothing to do with Toronto? We are talking about integrated metropolitan areas here, and when every municipality goes their own way, the whole Region suffers.
But your statement that local Cambridge employment isn't growing and everyone drives to KW to work is false. In fact, from 1995-2000 (I couldn't find anything more recent), Cambridge had the 2nd highest rate of employment growth in Ontario, right behind Mississauga. Given that industrial and commercial development are still BOOMING in Cambridge, I very much doubt that it's becoming an exclusive bedroom community to anywhere. It also has more people commuting into it for work than commuting out of it, contrary to popular belief. So you might want to do your research.

http://www.city.cambridge.on.ca/relatedDocs/2006%20Economic%20Analysis.pdf
On top of this, while KW is the primary out-of-town commuting destination (as would be expected), Guelph and the western GTA (including Mississauga) are also significant destinations. There are no examples of municipalities within the entire Greater Golden Horseshoe where EVERYBODY works in their own municipality. Does that make them all suburbs of each other? No, that is just rediculous. You can't judge what is a suburb of where simply by where people work.
Check the above link if you need any of these points verified. You'll see that in 2001, 17.5% of Cambridge's labour force commutes to KW, which is a far cry from the "most of these people", as you put it.

[Cambridgite]

By the way, here's a link that will show you how superior Galt's architecture is to that of Mississauga City Centre.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=126650

[MonkeyRonin]

The waiting list for social housing in Peel is currently 15-20 years, while in Toronto its closer to about 5 years. The reason for this huge gap? Peel supplies over $40 million a year to Toronto to subsidize TORONTO'S social assistance and social housing programs. That kind of money, if we in Peel could hold onto it, would mean that we could build two or three new buildings a year, and be able to afford to the ones we already have. But no, Toronto takes the money. Since I'm going to guess that you'll bring up the infamous Toronto is under funded by the province argument, if you read the Ontario Coalition Against Poverty's report from last year, Peel is the most under funded region in the GTA when it comes to social programs (and that's before the pooling takes affect).

Yeah, well, where do all the poor people live? hint, its not Mississauga, its Toronto.

And makes sense no? Wait 15 years for subsidized housing so you can live in the middle of bumbfuck nowhere.. or wait 5 years and be able to walk or take TTC to wherever you need to go, and have more access to resources to the poor, hmm :hmmm:

And besides, I don't think Peel would be too happy about a bunch of new poor people moving in. Might not be the safest "city" in Canada anymore ;)

[Doady]

Yeah, well, where do all the poor people live? hint, its not Mississauga, its Toronto.

And makes sense no? Wait 15 years for subsidized housing so you can live in the middle of bumbfuck nowhere.. or wait 5 years and be able to walk or take TTC to wherever you need to go, and have more access to resources to the poor, hmm :hmmm:

And besides, I don't think Peel would be too happy about a bunch of new poor people moving in. Might not be the safest "city" in Canada anymore ;)

Peel Living the second largest provider of social housing in Canada. Yeah, Peel Region must really hate poor people.

[BigSlim]

Cambridge dude. Looks like you don't know what your talking about. Your blowing farts out of your mouth. You got told and I just wish that you can say to yourself "Yeah I'm an Idiot" Come on say it with me. Man, and your Galt or whatever it is looks fantastic, considering it was all built 100 years ago and it looks like the photographer shot that church from every angle possible...very nice church...lol!!! Oh my goodness. We now live in the year 2007 and we will continue to move forward in time not backwards. Like I said b4, just wait to see what Mississauga has in store for all the haters in the years to come. Simple!!! Read it, Analyze it, Research it, Understand it, I mean do what you gotta do and then swallow it!!!!

[MonkeyRonin]

Peel Living the second largest provider of social housing in Canada. Yeah, Peel Region must really hate poor people.

Fails for going after the third paragraph.

[Cambridgite]

Cambridge dude. Looks like you don't know what your talking about. Your blowing farts out of your mouth. You got told and I just wish that you can say to yourself "Yeah I'm an Idiot" Come on say it with me. Man, and your Galt or whatever it is looks fantastic, considering it was all built 100 years ago and it looks like the photographer shot that church from every angle possible...very nice church...lol!!! Oh my goodness. We now live in the year 2007 and we will continue to move forward in time not backwards. Like I said b4, just wait to see what Mississauga has in store for all the haters in the years to come. Simple!!! Read it, Analyze it, Research it, Understand it, I mean do what you gotta do and then swallow it!!!!

Alright, I am an idiot for making the assumption that Mississauga doesn't have poverty.
If all that impresses you in a downtown area is height, Mississauga does and will always blow Galt out of the water. If you're looking for unique buildings and streetscapes that are pedestrian friendly and have a strong sense of place, then Galt will blow Mississauga out of the water. I wish Mississauga the best of luck in becoming a great city, and I am simply criticizing what I see. But most of all, what I'm criticizing is how Mississauga does not like to see itself in a broader regional context.
You seem to think that a place cannot move forward in time if it's not brand new. So it's not suprising that you find more beauty in a bunch of glass towers surrounding a mall than in a real town that was built before our cities became utilitarian structures surrounded by parking lots. And guess what, Mississauga is ageing too. It doesn't matter how fast Mississauga grew 10 or 20 years ago. Now Milton and Brampton are the biggest beneficaries in the westward sprawl. Chances are that they wont want to be great neighbors either, but I hope they will. Commercial taxes are generally lower when you go further out and they will be stealing your business, so Mississauga will have fun with that.
I just don't like how Mississauga cannot accept the fact that they're NOT some metropolis that's independent from Toronto and its other suburbs and just get over it. Mississauga CAN be a leader and provide a better example for suburbs all over, but they cannot work in isolation.
By the way, if you thought I was blowing farts out of my mouth, you should have read the post and looked at the link I posted too.