[1ajs]

simple u have a clear sheet of plastic u draw ur image u want to impos on it then u make a print of that for more detailed bit on this ask viking or any of the architects here... they know more about how the oldschool is done

[1ajs]

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1519681409?bctid=1842751533

A little video from WFP showing the smoke from the bus...

that explanes all the bluty smoke i ran into that day when i went to mail a parcle at redwood and main lol

[JayM]

Does anyone here know off hand the cost for 1 40' diesel bus from newflyer?

[MalcolmTucker]

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/2277/picture7xj3.png

[JayM]

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/2277/picture7xj3.png

Hmm well as much as good info that was.. i see nothing as far as Canadian related.

[MalcolmTucker]

Hmm well as much as good info that was.. i see nothing as far as Canadian related.

Forty foot buses cost approximately just under 400k 2007 USD. The only source of aggregate data is the USA and it is rather silly to discount their data and believe our experience would be any different. Since buses can vary greatly in cost according to what options one adds to them, system by system data isn't very useful.

For example in Toronto a normal 40 foot bus costs them about $500k, but a hybrid is $734k. (source (http://transit.toronto.on.ca/archives/data/200802120430.shtml))

A BC Transit spec 40 foot low floor averages $530k. (source (http://www.bctransit.com/regions/kel/news/hybrid_electric.cfm))

Most places you have to average a budget line, as the contract is a confidential commercial document, and could include commissioning costs, and other non-specific extras.

[JayM]

Forty foot buses cost approximately just under 400k 2007 USD. The only source of aggregate data is the USA and it is rather silly to discount their data and believe our experience would be any different. Since buses can vary greatly in cost according to what options one adds to them, system by system data isn't very useful.

For example in Toronto a normal 40 foot bus costs them about $500k, but a hybrid is $734k. (source (http://transit.toronto.on.ca/archives/data/200802120430.shtml))

A BC Transit spec 40 foot low floor averages $530k. (source (http://www.bctransit.com/regions/kel/news/hybrid_electric.cfm))

Most places you have to average a budget line, as the contract is a confidential commercial document, and could include commissioning costs, and other non-specific extras.

Alright thanks for clearing that up. Makes more sense. Knowing already that it will be in US$ was something i was aware of but i guess it all depends on the City and its Location.

[Only The Lonely..]

Ternette thrown out of Council meeting
CJOB's Colleen Bready reporting
10/23/2008

Winnipeg city hall's most loyal cause crusader was thrown out of the Council chamber during Wednesday's council meeting.

Nick Ternette started shouting from the public gallery while Councillor Genny Gerbasi was addressing council about rapid transit..

City council speaker Harry Lazarenko had Ternette thrown out after he started swearing and yelling at Gerbasi accusing her of not telling the truth about a matter connected to the rapid transit debate..

Ternette later issued a statement claiming it was the first time in 40 years he has been ejected from a Winnipeg city council meeting..

[thegreattait]

From the Winnipeg No Press


Bus rapid transit approved by city

By: Julie Carl

Updated: October 22 at 07:35 PM CDT

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Decades after Mayor Steve Juba proposed a monorail for Winnipeg, the city is plunging ahead on a bus rapid transit system.

City council approved a $138 million BRT plan by a vote of 13 to 1, with only St. James-Brooklands Coun. Scott Fielding opposing it.

Many council members tipped their hat to Juba who faced derision in the 70s when he suggested a monorail system for the city. But it turns out the man was a visionary.

“This isn’t about today,” Mayor Sam Katz said after the meeting. “It’s about 20 years from now. It’s about the future.

“If you want your city to grow, you have to have rapid transit.”

Fielding opposed the motion, acknowledging as he addressed council that “the votes are there” and he expected the motion to pass.

He said by his calculations of how much faster the system will move people than car traffic -- saving five minutes in normal traffic and eight to 10 in rush hour – it will cost $20 million for every one minute of savings.

“The benefits of rapid transit are not worth the high costs,” he said.

But Fielding assured his fellow councillors that he would respect the will of council. “You won’t see me lying across the rails.”

Katz said he and city staff have spoken to developers who are poised to begin “hundreds of millions of dollars” in development -- high-density housing, single- family dwellings and commercial space -- once the BRT begins operation and that will justify its cost. Commercial development is expected to grow quickly around the system’s hubs.

Proponents expect the BRT system to encourage people to live downtown, cut greenhouse gasses and boost bus ridership.

But at least one voice other than Fielding’s opposed the new system -- so vehemently that he was ejected from the council meeting.

Long-time activist Nick Ternette, who originally addressed council from the delegation’s podium, was removed from the council chamber later in the meeting when he yelled and interrupted Fort Rouge-East Fort Garry Coun. Jenny Gerbasi as she spoke positively about Ottawa’s BRT system.

Ternette favours light rapid transit, which uses trains rather than buses, such as Calgary’s system.

[hexrae]

But Fielding assured his fellow councillors that he would respect the will of council. “You won’t see me lying across the rails.”

Buses run on rails? :rolleyes:

[vid]

Hamilton just approved its LRT system. Their LRT and BRT network will have five routes, according to the proposal I've seen.

[Greco Roman]

Hamilton just approved its LRT system.

Please, don't depress me even more. I'm sure Saskatoon and K-W will be operating LRT routes in the next decade while Winnipeg holds on to fast buses :rolleyes: :(

[vid]

Just like Thunder Bay! The only city in a 2005 University of Calgary study of mid-sized transit systems that wasn't even considering any form of rapid transit! Not even express buses!

We live in a black hole of infrastructural regression. :(

[1ajs]

Just like Thunder Bay! The only city in a 2005 University of Calgary study of mid-sized transit systems that wasn't even considering any form of rapid transit! Not even express buses!

We live in a black hole of infrastructural regression. :(
run for city councle!

[Tower Crane]

I had mentioned in earlier posts that contrary to what the city or some forumers were saying it was not as easy as "laying some tracks to convert to LRT" and that the platforms are really no different. Well as I continue with the Edmonton expansion of the LRT I can assure you the platforms a like 2' high to be even with the train car floor, more importantly the infrastructure and utilities layed into the system and platforms is extensive. BRT cannot be flipped to LRT with any ease....the only thing will exist is a dedicated right of way to actually rip out the BRT road and actually built a LRT system.
Contrary to what the city may say...no easy flip there.

[MalcolmTucker]

^ I would assume a new system would go with low floor LRVs, so the platforms could actually be saved, but yeah, the utility work is rather extensive for the traction power system. It is unlikely you would put lines in anywhere since you would have to commit to a specific technology today (and who knows, Calgary and Edmonton still have DC distribution of traction power, while new systems and LRVs now get AC distribution. there is no reason not to expect another change in current type and voltage, which can change according to suppliers too)

I would expect any 'quick switch' to be at least two construction seasons, while in the mean time there would be no rapid transit at all.

If busses other than the decadicated expresses buses start taking portions of the right of way to speed themselves up, then there could be political problems with the conversion too. Along with a large capital outlay, to essentially redo the work, to acheive rather middling service improvements. (of course, the operating costs per passenger drops by quite a bit, but it is still harder to sell)

[art deco]

A buddy of mine in ottawa says the one problem with BRT there is that when the buses are all done zooming at high speed down the dedicated corridor they get to the end and a cause a huge traffic jam he says the back-up of buses is a major bottleneck everyday that creates problems for traffic. Does anyone know how they intend to deal wth that here... could bring a whole new meaning to the term confusion corner.

[wags_in_the_peg]

fire on bus

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/ips_rich_content/411-bus.jpg

[Only The Lonely..]

fire on bus

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/ips_rich_content/411-bus.jpg

Wow, that's the second time this has happened in the last 8 weeks.

[vid]

That's where I usually sit when I'm on the bus, too.. :\

[swolfe]

U of W opens bus-only loop road

Updated: November 17 at 10:59 AM CST

There's a major change of direction on the University of Winnipeg campus today -- a new bus-only loop road, a street that's now one-way, and a new bus shelter.

U of W officially opened a new bus-only loop road on campus between Spence and Young streets, where there is now a new bus shelter for students and the community.

Meanwhile, more of Spence has been converted to a pedestrian-only zone, and Young Street has become a one-way northbound street between Portage and Ellice avenues.

U of W president Lloyd Axworthy credited the changes to $1.2 million from the province and co-operation from area residents, the city, and the CBC, whose property adjoins the edges of campus on Portage.

"The new transit terminal is consistent with our goal of creating an active transportation hub on campus which will make it as easy as possible for students to choose sustainable, environmentally-friendly commuting options such as bus and bicycles," said Axworthy. "This also allows us to begin linking our main campus to our rapidly developing western presence, the Furby-Langside campus. We are currently developing a green corridor which will complete that linkage."

Using the new bus terminal will be Winnipeg transit routes 50, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 59 and 68.

Buses that will continue to use Balmoral Street between Portage and Ellice on the east side of campus include routes 3, 40, 41, 42, 46, 47, 48 and 49.

[The Jabroni]

fire on bus

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/ips_rich_content/411-bus.jpg

If this keeps up, New Flyer might have a huge problem on their hands...:shrug:

[Only The Lonely..]

New Park n' Ride on Taylor Avenue

11/17/2008 | CJOB 680 AM

Winnipeg Transit's latest Park 'n Ride location opens in the parking lot of the old Manitoba Hydro building on Taylor Avenue.

An express bus - Route 39 - will shuttle commuters from the Park to downtown.

However, unlike the dozen other 'Park and Ride' lots in the city, the Taylor Avenue lot will charge users for casual and monthly parking.

Meanwhile, five new diamond traffic lane locations become operational in Winnipeg today. They are in effect during weekday peak periods only. Eligible users include transit vehicles, cyclists and right turning vehicles.

[1ajs]

that bus will run to just the meusem of man and nature
http://myride.winnipegtransit.com/public_content/pdfs/Service_Changes/Nov2008/39_Taylor.pdf
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/3843/tayleryh5.jpg

[1ajs]

If this keeps up, New Flyer might have a huge problem on their hands...:shrug:
another one? i wonder whats the cause

[The Jabroni]

another one? i wonder whats the cause

That's what I want to know.

I wonder if Kinguni has an insiders knowledge about this? He seems to be the only person with how the buses are being run in this city as far as I know.

[urbanprince]

did anyone take in the TOD event at the globe thiis week?

I am getting tired of of this city agreeing to placemaking but not knowing how to implemement. Lets do it Folks. In 20 years we could be better than portland.

[1ajs]

did anyone take in the TOD event at the globe thiis week?

I am getting tired of of this city agreeing to placemaking but not knowing how to implemement. Lets do it Folks. In 20 years we could be better than portland.

?

[Kinguni]

That's what I want to know.

I wonder if Kinguni has an insiders knowledge about this? He seems to be the only person with how the buses are being run in this city as far as I know.

Rumour has it the fires this week (there were two) were brake related, but it's just rumours. I don't know more than that, but it really doesn't make sense to me, especially since the first was so early in the morning.

Previous causes of fires in low floor buses were from oil leaks (1 that I know of).

Other possible causes? Fuel pumps that are prone to failure (although diesel should not ignite) or perhaps more likely the auxiliary engine heaters which run in colder weather to keep the engines at a proper operating temperature. It's very common that when they fail they will actually leak their fuel out their exhaust pipe.

Bear in mind it's all speculation on my part. I wonder if anyone could pry the information from Transit?

[The Jabroni]

Thanks King. :)

I'm surprised nobody posted this yet...

------

City eyes 11 properties
Auto dealership vows to fight bus-corridor plan

By: Bartley Kives

Updated: November 22 at 02:50 AM CST

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Winnipeg wants to expropriate 11 properties to make way for the new bus rapid-transit corridor -- and a Chrysler dealership is vowing to fight the city every step of the way.

Earlier this fall, the city announced plans to build a $327-million bus corridor that would connect The Forks with the University of Manitoba.

Construction on the first leg of the corridor, a 3.6-kilometre busway that will connect Queen Elizabeth Way to Jubilee Avenue, is supposed to begin during the summer of 2009.

But first, the city must acquire 11 chunks of land, according to a property and planning report obtained by the Free Press.

Eight of the parcels sought by the city are either narrow slivers of land or small corners of triangular properties.

But the three remaining chunks desired by the city are significant, as the city wants a large piece of the Masonic Temple parking lot on Corydon Avenue, an entire building on Warsaw Avenue (Canada One Travel Company) and the rear fifth of Pembina Chrysler Dodge Jeep, a car dealership.

Although the city may be able to purchase all the properties by simply making the owners offers, the expropriation process is being initiated as a backup plan to ensure the city takes possession of all 11 chunks of land in time for construction to begin next summer.

"In order to guarantee possession of all privately owned land interests for the 2009 construction season, it is important for the expropriation process to commence immediately," the report states.

Winnipeg Transit will be asked to set aside $12.7 million to fund the expropriations, which must be approved by city council's planning, property and development committee on Tuesday.

If city council as a whole approves the plan on Dec. 17, property owners will have 30 days to voice an objection.

Normally, any objection would trigger an inquiry into the expropriation. But the city plans to ask the province for permission to waive the need for any inquiries "given Winnipeg Transit's construction timelines," the report states.

Andy Peng Cheng Ling, who owns 470 Warsaw Ave., could not be reached for comment. But the owner of Pembina Chrysler, which would lose a sizable portion of its parking lot to the bus corridor, was not pleased to hear of the city's expropriation plan.

"We will fight this in all possible ways," said Bernie Clement, who purchased Pembina Chrysler in June 2006.

Clement says he's grown the 40-year-old dealership to the point that the service side of his business is top among Winnipeg's Chrysler dealers.

"Our location fits our business model and it's where we intend to do business in the long term," he said, adding he's only had preliminary conversations with the city about the bus corridor.

Although the City of Winnipeg has the power to expropriate any land it needs to build major projects, politicians rarely initiate the process.

In the 1980s, former mayor Bill Norrie authorized the expropriation of dozens of city blocks to make way for Portage Place and the adjoining North Portage residential development. More recently, Mayor Sam Katz surmised it might be necessary to expropriate parts of South Point Douglas to make way for a football stadium now destined for the University of Manitoba.

The city, province and federal government are all funding the southwest Winnipeg bus corridor, with a $138-million first phase that will include a new bridge over Osborne Street and a tunnel below the CNR Fort Rouge Yards. The city and province plan to spend $55 million each on this leg, while Ottawa has devoted $28 million.

The financing for the $189-million second phase, a six-kilometre section that will connect Jubilee Avenue with Bison Drive, has not been determined.

bartley.kives@freepress.mb.ca

Wanted by Winnipeg

What the city wants to purchase or expropriate to build Phase One of the southwest Winnipeg rapid-transit corridor:

240 Stradbrook Ave. -- Northeast corner at Lagopolous Way.

2 Donald St. -- Narrow sliver along Donald Street.

344 Gertrude Ave. -- Strip of land along Donald Street.

360 McMillan Ave. -- Northeast corner and a tiny sliver along Donald Street.

230 Osborne St. -- Narrow strip along Donald Street.

420 Corydon Ave. -- Wide strip of Masonic Temple parking lot.

471 Warsaw Ave. -- Tiny corner of parking lot.

470 Warsaw Ave. -- Entire property, including a 4,600-square-foot office building.

300 Pembina Hwy. -- Large chunk of Pembina Chrysler parking lot.

332 Nassau St. North -- Northeast corner of property.

425 Osborne St. -- Vacant lot, formerly a gas station.

[MichaelM]

that bus will run to just the meusem of man and nature
http://myride.winnipegtransit.com/public_content/pdfs/Service_Changes/Nov2008/39_Taylor.pdf
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/3843/tayleryh5.jpg

What's the point?

I can drive from 820 Taylor to downtown in 3 minutes.

Why take a stinky bus.

Seems like a big waste of travel time.

[wags_in_the_peg]

What's the point?

I can drive from 820 Taylor to downtown in 3 minutes.

Why take a stinky bus.

Seems like a big waste of travel time.

it takes 15 minutes minimum, if not 20. plus $200 month for parking

[Greco Roman]

What's the point?

I can drive from 820 Taylor to downtown in 3 minutes.

Why take a stinky bus.

Seems like a big waste of travel time.

I call bs on this.

[Boreal]

If you're lucky, you can get to the Donald St. bridge in 5 minutes, and that is at off-peak hours. During morning rush, I think wags in the peg has it roughly correct. It's not a 'quick jaunt'. By no means a long haul, but this will cut down traffic volumes (albeit marginally - but every little bit helps) and save individuals considerable amounts in parking.

[1ajs]

I call bs on this.
not if he is a smart driver and leavs at the right time theres a funny time window were it can be 5 minuts then all the sudden if u leav 2 minuts later it takes you half an hr

in the morning its been aking an hr to get out of the city from pointdouglas when heading out in the morning to gretna though that jobs prity much done now other then some clean up

[Greco Roman]

not if he is a smart driver and leavs at the right time theres a funny time window were it can be 5 minuts then all the sudden if u leav 2 minuts later it takes you half an hr


I've driven that stretch many times in all kinds of traffic conditions, and it takes NO LESS than 10 minutes, unless you drive like a maniac.

[trueviking]

i heard today about the mid to high rise residential/commercial development that will happen along the BRT corridor today...it was pretty exciting to hear....all pretty much a done deal from the sounds of it.

[Spocket]

^Finally, some positive news.

[1ajs]

i heard today about the mid to high rise residential/commercial development that will happen along the BRT corridor today...it was pretty exciting to hear....all pretty much a done deal from the sounds of it.
hey sweet hopefuly not a comie block though but still sweet

[vid]

What's the point?

I can drive from 820 Taylor to downtown in 3 minutes.

Why take a stinky bus.

Seems like a big waste of travel time.

Some people don't have cars.

[Andy6]

Some people don't have cars.

True, but they're not likely to be using a "park and ride".

[vid]

They could bike there and then lock up the bike at the terminal and take the bus from there, if that service exists.

[MichaelM]

I call bs on this.

Really:

Look at a few of my cars.

You may recognize some of them.


http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa201/ve4mm/IM008347.jpg?t=1227578011

[vid]

So you drive race cars to work in downtown Winnipeg? :)

[The Jabroni]

Really:

Look at a few of my cars.

You may recognize some of them.


http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa201/ve4mm/IM008347.jpg?t=1227578011

5 speeding tickets later... :banana:

[Boreal]

Didn't Winnipeg have a bike-to-transit initiative a little while ago? Is it still in place? Admittedly, I have never cycled and secured my bike to a bus before hopping on, nor so I see many people taking advantage of that, if indeed it exists at all.

[The Jabroni]

I saw them installed on buses earlier this summer. Apparently it's still going on, but I never see any bikes installed onto it.

[trueviking]

So you drive race cars to work in downtown Winnipeg? :)

even fake race cars or regular cars with garish stripes painted on the hood and fins glued to the trunk cant make it from taylor to downtown in three minutes during commuting hours. :)

unless he takes his petercopter....

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/2802/25759978tz0.jpg

[Boreal]

I saw them installed on buses earlier this summer. Apparently it's still going on, but I never see any bikes installed onto it.

I hear ya. As far as I would believe it's a very inexpensive initiative, so I don't have any strong feelings about it, but I'm not sure if our 'transport culture' is there yet in this city to use both bike and bus in a single trek. All the power in the world to those who do take advantage however. Come to think of it, that would be a neat feature on BRT. How cool would that be to cycle from one's home, from Fort Richmond for arguments sake, to the BRT station on Bison Dr/Chancellor Matheson Dr, load up your bike onto a rear hitch of the fastbus and get downtown, pull off your bike, and carry on? Not sure about feasibility, but it doesn't seem too prohibitive.

[1ajs]

I hear ya. As far as I would believe it's a very inexpensive initiative, so I don't have any strong feelings about it, but I'm not sure if our 'transport culture' is there yet in this city to use both bike and bus in a single trek. All the power in the world to those who do take advantage however. Come to think of it, that would be a neat feature on BRT. How cool would that be to cycle from one's home, from Fort Richmond for arguments sake, to the BRT station on Bison Dr/Chancellor Matheson Dr, load up your bike onto a rear hitch of the fastbus and get downtown, pull off your bike, and carry on? Not sure about feasibility, but it doesn't seem too prohibitive.
u nailed it now imagin biking down regent to the strip mall area and hoping on a lrt that would be FTW

[Greco Roman]

u nailed it now imagin biking down regent to the strip mall area and hoping on a lrt that would be FTW

This is Winnipeg, so the best you can do is BRT :rolleyes:

[1ajs]

This is Winnipeg, so the best you can do is BRT :rolleyes:
my ass boy lol we will see lrt eventualy

[Kinguni]

Didn't Winnipeg have a bike-to-transit initiative a little while ago? Is it still in place? Admittedly, I have never cycled and secured my bike to a bus before hopping on, nor so I see many people taking advantage of that, if indeed it exists at all.

I don't know how many years of "trial" we've had on them. Only used on the Pembina service on a trial basis.

[vid]

Thunder Bay Transit bought bike racks for its buses then realized that they would wreck the bus wash, so Thunder Bay Transit has 50 bike racks just sitting around because of a retarded decision. :)

The bike-to-transit thing doesn't work very well for Mantario, I guess. :(

[viperred88]

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v359/80/62/604325514/n604325514_4449208_1272.jpg

it would look good if there were skywalks instead of those stupid stairs.

[Smron]

.

[Kitty Surprise]

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v359/80/62/604325514/n604325514_4449208_1272.jpg

it would look good if there were skywalks instead of those stupid stairs.

OMG that picture, where did you find it?

I'm sure everyone has their own opinion, but personally, I'd LOVE to see that built down Portage. In fact, I'd probably marry it.

[The Jabroni]

That pic was in this thread several pages earlier.

Either way, that would have definitely kicked ass, had that been built, and this city would have been bustling in activity around the surrounding stations, and of course, downtown.

[vid]

Outdoor stations, elevated above Portage?

:haha:

[1ajs]

its in the back of the book

Going downtown
a history of winnipeg's
portage aveune

definatly a good buy along with the rest of that series

and viper where did u find that posted lol the link is not on any place i have uploaded that image to...

[urbanprince]

anything elevated like that would not only divide portage, but relegate the poor to the sidewalks with the auto's a forever.

A electric steetcar down the middle we do the direct opposite, cost less and tranform the downtown.

[viperred88]

anything elevated like that would not only divide portage, but relegate the poor to the sidewalks with the auto's a forever.

A electric steetcar down the middle we do the direct opposite, cost less and tranform the downtown.


probably but who is to say cars won't be electric as well. I don't think it would segregate the people.

building a train terminal on stilts is probably cheaper than going underground and less congestion if it were situated on road like the streetcars were.

There would need to be a skywalks system that is only for the train (lrt) station that would lead to the ground floor where all retail/restaurants would remain. It would definately over kill the streetlife of downtown if business would be allowed to set shop in the train terminals sky walks.

[sledhead35]

ive heard about new york having a lot of problems with water getting in their subway system. with our rising water table, wouldnt that be a concern if/when we ever get underground rapid transit?

[vid]

New York's subway is below sea level in many places. After about three days without electricity it would be a network of water tunnels, and eventually the city would cave in on them in many places.

It wouldn't be as much of a problem in Winnipeg.

[1ajs]

ive heard about new york having a lot of problems with water getting in their subway system. with our rising water table, wouldnt that be a concern if/when we ever get underground rapid transit?


umm... thats why we invented the sump pump

[1ajs]

New York's subway is below sea level in many places. After about three days without electricity it would be a network of water tunnels, and eventually the city would cave in on them in many places.

It wouldn't be as much of a problem in Winnipeg.
vid ground water would be an issue here...

[vid]

Yeah but it wouldn't be constant flooding of the entire system like New York. Besides, if they can do it....

[1ajs]

Yeah but it wouldn't be constant flooding of the entire system like New York. Besides, if they can do it....
not as bad but water would be an issue

[urbanprince]

Good article

Transit oriented developmentBack

by Stefano Grande

Recently, Winnipeg real estate, development and planning industry officials heard from one of the most senior pioneers of Transit Oriented Development (TOD) in North America, G.B. Arrington, vice-president and principal practice leader at PB PlaceMaking.

With the arrival of rapid transit to the downtown and city, the Downtown BIZ, supported by our partners — the city of Winnipeg, CentreVenture, The Manitoba Home Builders’ Association, the WinnipegREALTORS® Association, the Urban Development Institute and the Institute of Urban Studies — invited Arrington, the granddaddy of the successful Portland experiment, to attend our TOD conference and provide his professional guidance.

Over the course of the two days, meetings were held with city staff, home builders and developers, as well as members of the pubic interested in learning more.

What we heard and learned was that there is a growing real estate market for singles, young couples and empty-nesters to live in apartments and condominiums in vibrant urban environments. It’s a place where young professionals can one day walk to the local pub, catch a theatre show and grab a litre of milk on their way home to their historic loft, and the next day take a bus to work only five minutes away. In fact, it’s this emerging market that is driving downtown revitalization across North America, including Winnipeg.

The empty-nester tired of high gas prices, traffic congestion and living in a large home, with more rooms than are needed now that the kids are gone, will also drive housing projects over the next 10 to 15 years.

More people want to recapture up to 20 per cent of their income now used for automobile costs and instead take transit by living near transit. All of a sudden that lovely 14-foot ceiling warehouse condo overlooking the downtown skyline has become more affordable for the average person.

A city can transform itself the same way Portland has done by making transit a viable choice for its citizens and creating new and exciting developments in rich environments, resulting in 50 per cent fewer car trips for the people living in the downtown.

In Portland, over 80 per cent of the transit riders actually freely choose to use transit. In turn, their choice creates a healthier city and downtown, both from a fiscal perspective as well as a personal one.

More people walking means healthier citizens and less car trips mean less carbon in the atmosphere, helping governments to reach their carbon reduction goals. Fewer cars on the roads also means less congestion. Our city can save up to 25 per cent of its infrastructure and annual operating costs by developing transit-oriented neighbourhoods as opposed to urban-sprawl neighbourhoods. Over 30 years of studies point to the fact that transit-oriented developments sustain more of their value than housing projects dependent upon the automobile.

In the end, perhaps the most important question Arrington left us with was a simple one: What type of city do you want to live in?

Arrington made it clear it’s not about one type of development arising at the expense of another. He said it’s about creating new types of developments for an emerging market that focuses on Transit Oriented Development, which includes a wonderful pedestrian environment and giving people the choice of good housing options in neighbourhoods in and around the downtown. Judging by the success of the Waterfront District, more Winnipeggers want these opportunities.

After thirty years of development and analysis, Arrington feels that TOD is clearly a tool for a better and healthier urban environment when considering future city growth. It’s a tool that helps keep creative younger adults and empty-nesters in and around our downtown, which will at the same time drive business development, improve the downtown’s image and change safety perceptions — all goals of the downtown business community.

What I found most interesting is that senior city officials all know this, as well as most urban thinkers. The developers and home builders we spoke to are ready and willing to help transform our city in this direction, because they recognize this is the direction the market is going.

Arrington was also clear on what is needed next— our city leaders possessing the knowledge to create the proper policies and tools to make it easy for developers to do TOD business.

He also had some good advice: if you want a greater response from the market and the community, involve them in the process at the outset, since it’s also about transforming the community.

What exactly are the ingredients of TOD and the lessons learned? Check out Arrington’s presentation at www.downtownwinnipegbiz.com

(Stefano Grande is the executive director of the Downtown BIZ.)


Did anyone attend the presentation?

I found the presentation on the BIZ web site
http://www.downtownwinnipegbiz.com/resource/File/WinnipegTOD-101.pdf

[wags_in_the_peg]

all sounds great to me in 20 yrs when my kids are moved out. In reality, Winnipeg has lots of families, not just the young hip folks, so adding more "family housing" closer to the core would help to.

i still can't believe the area north of Provencher, aka Pointe Hebert or North St. Boniface is still sitting empty. that is prime development land owned by the city and turned over to land developer 3 yrs ago. still nothing happening.

[metonymy]

Interesting to see Montreal going ahead with trams and the cost of the 12 stop 17 km bus rapid transit for Gatineau is $195million. We're paying close to $150million merely for Phase 1 of our BRT.

Green Light for the Rapibus Project in Gatineau
The City of Gatineau, together with various other partners, has given the green light to Rapibus, a mass transit project valued at $195 million. As part of a consortium, GENIVAR will construct a rapid transit system along the existing Quebec-Gatineau rail line, including a 17 km two-way bus-only corridor and a bike path. Approximately 12 Rapibus stations will eventually serve as hubs for civil infrastructure, businesses, office buildings and apartment blocks.

The Rapibus project ties in with transportation and sustainable development policies aimed at promoting bus ridership in the Outaouais region. According to preliminary studies, ridership is expected to increase by 15% during the first year of service, with 25,000 new users. The project will also help to reduce traffic congestion.

GENIVAR Gets the Nod for Montreal’s Tramway Project
GENIVAR, as part of a consortium, won Phase I of a study to build a tramway network in Montreal. The network is consistent with the new strategic direction of the City of Montreal’s transportation plan, which aims to strengthen the urban structure and revitalize neighbourhoods and traffic arteries.

As part of the crucially important first phase, GENIVAR will define the initial network configuration and identify potential routes for tramlines, particularly the inaugural line. A status report on existing tramway technologies will be drawn up and potential sites for the garage will be identified.

The creation of the tramway network provides an opportunity to review roadway allocation for auto traffic, mass transit, cyclists and pedestrians. This will be a major challenge in view of the stated objectives for each of these stakeholder groups.

[Spocket]

Interesting to see Montreal going ahead with trams and the cost of the 12 stop 17 km bus rapid transit for Gatineau is $195million. We're paying close to $150million merely for Phase 1 of our BRT.



I thought about that too and I figure it comes down to a couple of key elements.
We're building one tunnel and one overpass with the first phase and that alone has to make up a pretty large chunk of the costs. Plus we're supposedly building our line with an eventual transition to LRT in mind (although I have no idea what difference that actually makes I'm guessing it makes some) If Gatineau if simply building along an abandoned rail line then it stands to reason that any related infrastructure (bridges) are already in place.

[Only The Lonely..]

Diamond lanes fail to shine, resident says

By Jolie Toews | The Herald


Dec. 11, 2008



A Transcona resident says there is not enough room on Regent Avenue during rush hour for the two new diamond lanes along the major Transcona street.

Bruce Zeemel, 66, is upset with the city’s decision to designate the curb lanes on east- and west-bound Regent between Rougeau Avenue and Plessis Road for buses, cyclists and right-turning vehicles only during peak hours on week days.

What’s even more pressing, Zeemel says, is the issue that there is no major artery between downtown and Transcona.

Zeemel said it would ease traffic on Regent, which has three lanes running in each direction.

“For the roadway to have to stay empty, that’s not fair to people who have to pay for the roadway,” Zeemel said.

“To me, it’s common sense — it’s paid for by the people, so let them use it.”

As part of the City of Winnipeg’s ongoing transit improvements program, Winnipeg Transit installed five new diamond lanes on city streets last month, including Henderson Highway and McPhillips Street.

The focus is to improve the speed and reliability of transit service.

Transit spokesman Ken Allen said that should, in turn, attract more people to ride the bus.

Allen said transit buses are able to reduce their travel time by two to three minutes during peak times while using diamond lanes.

Zeemel said it doesn’t make sense to take away a lane for motorists travelling in either direction during those hours when traffic seems to be increasing due to housing development in the area and trains causing back-ups.

Allen said the city has been monitoring traffic since the diamond lanes were installed to see how it impacts traffic.

“My understanding is that Winnipeg Transit monitors things like that and, at this point, the plan is to keep those diamond lanes in place. It takes a while for traffic to adjust to these new routes as well,” Allen said.

“Usually after a number of weeks, traffic will level out and that’s likely the case with these new diamond lanes as well.”

Allen suggests motorists allow themselves more time to reach their destination if they are noticing longer wait times.

Zeemel said he has contacted the local councillor, MLA, Winnipeg Police Service and City of Winnipeg to let them know of his concerns.

“I put my two cents in and so I’ll see where it goes,” said Zeemel, adding that he tries to keep up-to-date with the city’s plans.

“I’ll get on my horse and have a look around,” he said.

Allen said failure to comply with the rules could result in a minimum fine of $190 and two demerit points on the driver’s licence, which Zeemel thinks is too harsh.

The new diamond lanes are only in effect between 7 a.m. and 9 a.m. and 3:30 p.m. and 5:30 p.m. every week day.

They are identified by white diamond-shaped markers painted on the roadway and overhead and street signs.

[Kinguni]

A Transcona resident says there is not enough room on Regent Avenue during rush hour for the two new diamond lanes along the major Transcona street.

Bruce Zeemel, 66, is upset with the city’s decision to designate the curb lanes on east- and west-bound Regent between Rougeau Avenue and Plessis Road for buses, cyclists and right-turning vehicles only during peak hours on week days.



Dear Mr. Zeemel,

If it's taking too long using your car now, they how about using the bus instead? Or, stay off Regent during rush hour? Seems pretty simple to me.

Yours truly, Kinguni

[1ajs]

kinguni have u ever being on regent? u have no idea how bad it is... it backs up so bad it backs up king st downtown...

[flatlander]

“For the roadway to have to stay empty, that’s not fair to people who have to pay for the roadway,” Zeemel said.

“To me, it’s common sense — it’s paid for by the people, so let them use it.”

Hey Zeemel - I take the bus and pay taxes too. They City doesn't levy a charge for users of the road (through a toll or gas tax) so you pay for it whether you use it or not.

Hey maybe he's onto something - toll roads. I like that idea. User pay.

[Greco Roman]

kinguni have u ever being on regent? u have no idea how bad it is... it backs up so bad it backs up king st downtown...

Are you saying that Regent is backed up so bad that this affect traffic on King St. in the downtown? Do you have any idea of the distance between the two?

There is no way that one affects the other at such a distance; traffic in Winnipeg is not that bad.

[The Jabroni]

He does have a point though, on how Transcona doesn't have a real direct access to downtown.

With Regent, it starts off with 3 lanes. On Nairn, it eventually reduces to 2 lanes, and by the time you're over the bridge, you have 3 possible ways going downtown, with one being the Louise Bridge which is down to one lane each direction.

So yes, it is a bottleneck going towards downtown, and that's the price a lot of people pay when living in the suburbs. It's an already proven fact in many places all over this continent, with car traffic and whatnot.

With McPhillips during rush hour, traffic is a lot worse now because it was 3 lanes in all directions before being reduced to 2. Then again, McPhillips going southbound going towards McPhillips Street Station narrows down to 2 lanes, where the diamond lane terminates on Selkirk Ave.

[Kinguni]

kinguni have u ever being on regent? u have no idea how bad it is... it backs up so bad it backs up king st downtown...

If you haven't noticed I'm a Winnipeg Transit bus operator and I avoid Regent Ave. W. like the plague, even driving the bus. I know exactly how bad it is and support any measure possible to ensure that the buses move faster, even if it means slowing down the movement of cars. I believe that the current rapid transit plan is waste since it's not even half a plan and the money could be better spent implementing measures all over the city which would help the buses bypass the worst traffic areas. And I would support a much expanded system of diamond lanes in the city on major routes where space is available.

Regent Ave.? If you aren't turning you have no business being in the curb lanes anyways. Should be the same thing on Pembina Hwy, and Portage Ave.

[1ajs]

Are you saying that Regent is backed up so bad that this affect traffic on King St. in the downtown? Do you have any idea of the distance between the two?

There is no way that one affects the other at such a distance; traffic in Winnipeg is not that bad.
aww yea it does get back up like that... friday it sure as hell was.......................................................

i came from shell canada terminal on panit was guna stop at stuid store saw the trafic on regent said screw it went to giant tiger downtown instead as the trafic west bound was flowing... but east bound oye that was bumper to bumper all the way to downtown... and wen i passed king i was back up even...

[Greco Roman]

aww yea it does get back up like that... friday it sure as hell was.......................................................

i came from shell canada terminal on panit was guna stop at stuid store saw the trafic on regent said screw it went to giant tiger downtown instead as the trafic west bound was flowing... but east bound oye that was bumper to bumper all the way to downtown... and wen i passed king i was back up even...

Well, what you are describing is Calgary-type traffic, and there is no way in hell that Winnipeg experiences anything like Calgary traffic. Edmonton doesn't experience anything like you describe; not even accidents on the Yellowhead Trail and Whitemud Drive back things up as ridiculous like as you describe.

[1ajs]

Well, what you are describing is Calgary-type traffic, and there is no way in hell that Winnipeg experiences anything like Calgary traffic. Edmonton doesn't experience anything like you describe; not even accidents on the Yellowhead Trail and Whitemud Drive back things up as ridiculous like as you describe.
u have no idea... go see damit i seen it with my own eyes several times friday was cause of the slow down from the snow and all but it still gets cloged up prity bad

[Spocket]

Well, what you are describing is Calgary-type traffic, and there is no way in hell that Winnipeg experiences anything like Calgary traffic. Edmonton doesn't experience anything like you describe; not even accidents on the Yellowhead Trail and Whitemud Drive back things up as ridiculous like as you describe.

No, Adrian's right. I don't know when or why it happened but over the past few years in particular the traffic at Regent and Lagimodiere has increased to the point where something like a few inches of snow during rush hour can really back the traffic up quite a distance. As soon as it's backed up from Lag. all the way to Watt then yeah, I have no trouble at all envisioning a line all the way to downtown. Admittedly , this isn't a regular occurence at all but as a rule of thumb, by the time you get to the corner of Regent and Lag. , you'll probably be waiting a few minutes during the peak of rush hour.

There really aren't any practical alternatives for people who need to go east. Even to take Marion to Dugald via Lag is becoming a stop-and-go affair during inclement weather. Ten minutes to travel two blocks is hardly the end of the world but certain corners do indeed cause back-ups that can stretch for kilometers given the right conditions.

[drew]

Well, what you are describing is Calgary-type traffic, and there is no way in hell that Winnipeg experiences anything like Calgary traffic. Edmonton doesn't experience anything like you describe; not even accidents on the Yellowhead Trail and Whitemud Drive back things up as ridiculous like as you describe.

Traffic has been retarded here the last couple weeks. I was walking home along Westminster on Thursday last week and it was a non-moving solid gridlock and not moving from Maryland to Arlington. I looked towards Wolesley Ave. and it was the same. Maryland itself was gridlock as far north as I could see, same with Osborne Street going south.

I am not sure if people are just getting more stupid with snow on the road, or its just the result of increasing traffic on the streets, but traffic is getting a lot worse in this city, especially getting in and out of downtown.

[flatlander]

Traffic has been retarded here the last couple weeks. I was walking home along Westminster on Thursday last week and it was a non-moving solid gridlock and not moving from Maryland to Arlington. I looked towards Wolesley Ave. and it was the same. Maryland itself was gridlock as far north as I could see, same with Osborne Street going south.

I am not sure if people are just getting more stupid with snow on the road, or its just the result of increasing traffic on the streets, but traffic is getting a lot worse in this city, especially getting in and out of downtown.

When not riding my bike (I am a fairweather cyclist) my wife and i carpool as we both work downtown, from our home in Riverview. I really don't think traffic is getting any worse - it just gets stupid with a bit of snow. Who knows why. Osborne in particular backs up. That being said you don't plan for extremes (at least you shouldn't) so just suck it up and leave ten minutes early.

[1ajs]

When not riding my bike (I am a fairweather cyclist) my wife and i carpool as we both work downtown, from our home in Riverview. I really don't think traffic is getting any worse - it just gets stupid with a bit of snow. Who knows why. Osborne in particular backs up. That being said you don't plan for extremes (at least you shouldn't) so just suck it up and leave ten minutes early.
or better yet you hang out downtown a little bit long with the wife and have some fun :cheers: let it be a meal or a game of pool at vaugh st billards

[1ajs]

No, Adrian's right. I don't know when or why it happened but over the past few years in particular the traffic at Regent and Lagimodiere has increased to the point where something like a few inches of snow during rush hour can really back the traffic up quite a distance. As soon as it's backed up from Lag. all the way to Watt then yeah, I have no trouble at all envisioning a line all the way to downtown. Admittedly , this isn't a regular occurence at all but as a rule of thumb, by the time you get to the corner of Regent and Lag. , you'll probably be waiting a few minutes during the peak of rush hour.

There really aren't any practical alternatives for people who need to go east. Even to take Marion to Dugald via Lag is becoming a stop-and-go affair during inclement weather. Ten minutes to travel two blocks is hardly the end of the world but certain corners do indeed cause back-ups that can stretch for kilometers given the right conditions.

theres provonche but i have not seen it latly to know if it gets back up also or not

[1ajs]

9:30ish on a sat
in aug
http://pointdouglas.com/plugins/p17_image_gallery/images/1285.jpg

[Spocket]

Probably not because most people use Provencher for access to St. Boniface or Archibald. It's people whose destination lies east of Lagimodiere that get stuck in the traffic and in that case, one way or the other, they wind up taking either Regent or Dugald anyway.

[metonymy]

In Kives' interview with the mayor, this exchange is interesting:

FP: What else do you want to get done next year?

Katz: I want to see the announcement of a new stadium for the Blue Bombers. I think the time has come. I'd like to see rapid transit all the way from downtown to the University of Manitoba, and I'd like it to be LRT.

[bryanscott]

In Kives' interview with the mayor, this exchange is interesting: I'd like to see rapid transit all the way from downtown to the University of Manitoba, and I'd like it to be LRT.


Interesting in a did-he-say-that-with-a-straight-face kind of way?

[metonymy]

It gives me faint, very faint hope that Katz is doing some behind the scenes arm-twisting to try and get this thing converted to LRT before the BRT horse leaves the barn.

[1ajs]

ooo i wonder if vikings remarks to samy that one morning from his s2000 had any affect on him?

[Greco Roman]

In Kives' interview with the mayor, this exchange is interesting:

FP: What else do you want to get done next year?

Katz: I want to see the announcement of a new stadium for the Blue Bombers. I think the time has come. I'd like to see rapid transit all the way from downtown to the University of Manitoba, and I'd like it to be LRT.


Message to Katz: DO NOT toy with me on the subject of LRT :whip:

[newflyer]

In Kives' interview with the mayor, this exchange is interesting:

FP: What else do you want to get done next year?

Katz: I want to see the announcement of a new stadium for the Blue Bombers. I think the time has come. I'd like to see rapid transit all the way from downtown to the University of Manitoba, and I'd like it to be LRT.



... and this is news how??? I have heard him mention this desire to see an LRT in Winnipeg before. :shrug:

[jimj_wpg]

It gives me faint, very faint hope that Katz is doing some behind the scenes arm-twisting to try and get this thing converted to LRT before the BRT horse leaves the barn.

http://he.mindscapesolutions.com/MemberFiles/f10023/WYSIWYG/Horse%20leaving%20barn%20-%20Outdoor.jpg
SOURCE: TeamRestoration.com
http://www.teamrestoration.com/index.aspx?aspxerrorpath=/Classic_Barn_Remodel.aspx


The proverbial horse leaving the barn.... Nice horsee.

[thegreattait]

We should get this crew to work on a bunch of projects for the city before demolition by neglect takes things too far.

[metonymy]

Winnipeg Transit should get with the Google Transit (http://www.google.com/transit) revolution and port their Navigo system over.

[flatlander]

Winnipeg Transit should get with the Google Transit (http://www.google.com/transit) revolution and port their Navigo system over.

Doesn't Navigo predate Goodle Transit?

[1ajs]

what i would love is a google map version with every rout on it so one can just go look and see what bus are ruing around and be able to deslect them ect...

and yes navigo does man man i love navigo its so handy... speacly when making trips to parts the city i don't know the bus's to well in.. must use it at least once a month and navigo have google maps built into it to show u the path ur taking on foot and bus along the trip.. its amazing how many people don't even know about that and telebus witch is realy nice when its -40 out and u get to the stop and don't know the times u just the phone number shown on the bus stop sign and give the stop number and it tells u when the next bus is for all the routs at that stop ect