[JayM]

Have to remember that existing rail hasnt been approved by CN to be used by the city nor did they even consider it.

[Kitty Surprise]

only thing is runing that line overtop of 2nd towers foot print for trizac would limit us from ever filling that hole :( also the pad sticks up a fair bit around there and sou would have to go elevated though a elevated line down king st would be kinda kool cause then u could conect to transcona line that would come down beside cpr main line

That's kind of the point; to be at least partly elevated through downtown; from Union Station, up and over Main Street to a station atop Winnipeg Square - that pad would get developed! The vacant parking lots adjacent to Canada Post would become very desirable for mixed-use TOD.

From there, north along Smith & King would be street-level and closed to cars, to integrate better with the Exchange District and to promote a pedestrian village atmosphere. Students at sidewalk cafes sans cars ;)

[Andy6]

I don't think that's necessarily required. LRT shouldn't be running down Portage east of Polo Park anyway. A perfect system would have LRT feeders stopping on the outskirts of downtown, and leaving the core areas to slower moving at grade streetcars that run along the curb lanes. Get all the buses out of downtown completely.

Streetcars running along curb lanes seems unlikely. There would be turning-radius and safety issues and it would eliminate all on-street parking. Even if that weren't an issue (and it's a huge issue anytime streetcars are proposed in Toronto, even though here they go down the centre), there would be problems with delivery and emergency vehicles and even stopping to drop people off somewhere would be difficult.

[thegreattait]

I think Running LRT down York makes much more sense, also depending on what happens with CN there are possible tie-ins with the CN main line(if we expropriate some track. Also on the corner of Main and York there is an empty lot that could accomodate the turning radius. Sorry I don't have a fancy diagram to explain it, you'll just have to "imagine" the possibility.

[viperred88]

I think Running LRT down York makes much more sense, also depending on what happens with CN there are possible tie-ins with the CN main line(if we expropriate some track. Also on the corner of Main and York there is an empty lot that could accomodate the turning radius. Sorry I don't have a fancy diagram to explain it, you'll just have to "imagine" the possibility.

I can see what you mean and it makes alot of sense but this winnipeg you are talking about here. Nobody plans properly

[JayM]

I can see what you mean and it makes alot of sense but this winnipeg you are talking about here. Nobody plans properly

It's clear that the people on this forum could plan, a better plan. Even with differences.

[Spocket]

It's clear that the people on this forum could plan, a better plan. Even with differences.

I've criticized planning practises in this city many times but that's not really being fair to our city planners. All these ideas that people are coming up with come with a price tag. Even if the money can be found , you have to play politics too. Politics is the reason we don't have a desperately needed apartment tower going up but we have managed to save an historic parking lot instead. City planners have to work within that framework.

[JayM]

I've criticized planning practises in this city many times but that's not really being fair to our city planners. All these ideas that people are coming up with come with a price tag. Even if the money can be found , you have to play politics too. Politics is the reason we don't have a desperately needed apartment tower going up but we have managed to save an historic parking lot instead. City planners have to work within that framework.

I guess there are always two sides to everything, that being said somethings in this city just take to damn long.

[MalcolmTucker]

I think Running LRT down York makes much more sense, also depending on what happens with CN there are possible tie-ins with the CN main line(if we expropriate some track. Also on the corner of Main and York there is an empty lot that could accommodate the turning radius. Sorry I don't have a fancy diagram to explain it, you'll just have to "imagine" the possibility.
You cannot expropriate railway land.

Streetcars running along curb lanes seems unlikely. There would be turning-radius and safety issues and it would eliminate all on-street parking. Even if that weren't an issue (and it's a huge issue anytime streetcars are proposed in Toronto, even though here they go down the centre), there would be problems with delivery and emergency vehicles and even stopping to drop people off somewhere would be difficult.
While not optimal, it is still possible, and if it is the only way you can afford it, it makes alot of sense. Ie: Denver

From the report:
Downtown LRT Feasibility Study (http://www.calgarytransit.com/pdf/Downtown_Final_Report.pdf)
(March 13, 2006) (http://www.calgarytransit.com/pdf/Downtown_Final_Report.pdf)
http://calgarytransit.com/images/pdf_icon.gif (http://www.calgarytransit.com/pdf/Downtown_Final_Report.pdf)17.8MB

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http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/2985/picture11xu2.png

[thegreattait]

You cannot expropriate railway land.

Technically I think you might be right, but with enough political pressure, anything is possible.

I knew that when the railways were government owned you couldn't expropriate their land, has that changed since they are now private entities. I think the bigger issue would be cost, because in order to expropriate you'd probably have to propose an alternate route, or come up with some sort of arrangement that would suite their business needs.

[1ajs]

technicaly the railway land is a seperat country they have their own police force for one

[thegreattait]

technicaly the railway land is a seperat country they have their own police force for one


Seperate country no,,, police force yes.

[1ajs]

i said technicay

[Spocket]

^Lol...yes, "technically" means accurate or in detail. Technically it's definitely Canada. ;)

[Archiseek]

and technically "technicay" isn't a word ;)

[thegreattait]

and technically "technicay" isn't a word ;)

no but its an honest typo,,,,, speaking of which I'm not sure if typo is even a word.

[MalcolmTucker]

Technically I think you might be right, but with enough political pressure, anything is possible.

I knew that when the railways were government owned you couldn't expropriate their land, has that changed since they are now private entities. I think the bigger issue would be cost, because in order to expropriate you'd probably have to propose an alternate route, or come up with some sort of arrangement that would suite their business needs.

With enough political pressure, you can do anything. To take railway land away forcibly you would need an act of Parliament. The railways are private entities, but they are still very much special in their legal treatment.

If you were to offer fair compensation, in the form of cash and an alternate route, that would be called buying, not expropriation. Plus, it would be very hard, since governments cannot really use eminent domain to assemble the long thin strip of land, if it is to be turned over to a private company. If you wanted to do something similar legally you would need most likely federal legislation, an amendment to the railways act.

[Andy6]

With enough political pressure, you can do anything. To take railway land away forcibly you would need an act of Parliament. The railways are private entities, but they are still very much special in their legal treatment.

If you were to offer fair compensation, in the form of cash and an alternate route, that would be called buying, not expropriation. Plus, it would be very hard, since governments cannot really use eminent domain to assemble the long thin strip of land, if it is to be turned over to a private company. If you wanted to do something similar legally you would need most likely federal legislation, an amendment to the railways act.

I'm not really getting why a Winnipeg streetcar would need to be "tied in" to the mainline of the CNR in any event. The whole scenario seems somewhat unlikely.

[flatlander]

With enough political pressure, you can do anything. To take railway land away forcibly you would need an act of Parliament. The railways are private entities, but they are still very much special in their legal treatment.

If you were to offer fair compensation, in the form of cash and an alternate route, that would be called buying, not expropriation. Plus, it would be very hard, since governments cannot really use eminent domain to assemble the long thin strip of land, if it is to be turned over to a private company. If you wanted to do something similar legally you would need most likely federal legislation, an amendment to the railways act.

You can expropriate land and then sell it to a company. Doesn't happen often but it happens.

[MalcolmTucker]

^ If you don't want to be re-elected you can do it!

Still can't from railroads.

[Spocket]

Railways aren't averse to selling land provided they're not using it or planning to . Even if you can expropriate land from a railway there's almost never any need to.

[vid]

Railways aren't averse to selling land provided they're not using it or planning to and there are no plans for the line to be operated by a potential competitor. Greenstone Municipality tried to buy the Kinghorn line between Thunder Bay and Geraldton from CN and start a municipal railway between Thunder Bay and Geraldton to improve industry connections between the communities. CN refused the sale and immediately began dismantling the line. There is now talk by Nipigon and Red Rock to convert it into a recreation trail, with each municipality the line runs through, the conservation districts and Thunder Bay pitching in to buy the land to do so.

And if anyone is interested, the Pass Lake trestle is being dismantled. It could already be gone. :(

[Spocket]

^Touche. I suppose that that's kind of a given but thank you for pointing it out. Either way, for our purposes I can't see the railways having any real issue with selling slivers and parcels here and there to the city.

As for the situation you mentioned for the Geraldton/Thunder Bay corridor, that's just messed up. If they weren't using it and couldn't make it profitable then one has to wonder why they'd care ? Wouldn't selling that land to another company actually be a good (read: sneaky) move for CN ? "Yeah...here, you buy this corridor. We're sure you can make a profit on it and not watch it turn into a money pit...*cough * suckers *cough cough* "
Now that I think of it , I think it was CN that sold their line from Winnipeg to Churchill to Omnitrax (or some such similarly named company) and that company has made the line profitable. Maybe CN learned something from that.

[vid]

Without that track, CN can now only approach Thunder Bay from the west. They improved that line so that they could do stuff related to the oil sands. I'm not entirely sure why the Kinghorn Line was closed, it didn't get much traffic but it was a good link between Thunder Bay and Greenstone. The whole closure has been fairly controversial. I'm really not fond of CN. Their swing bridge was damaged yesterday because a guy from Southern Ontario tried driving a transport over it (it's wood! :rolleyes:) and broke it. They haven't done anything to fix it yet, they don't appear to have any plans to and they said it could take two weeks before it re-opens. Aside from that, their trains cause fires all the time because they don't keep weeds out of the track ballast. You can actually tell whether or not a railline is CN's or CP's in this city by looking at the ballast. If it is just rock, it's CP. If it is full of weeds, it's CN.

[1ajs]

cn offerd to sell the land to the city when murry was mayor and katz squashed that...

[newflyer]

cn offerd to sell the land to the city when murry was mayor and katz squashed that...

I am not sure where you heard that... but Murray's plan went nowhere because there was no plan. Can you believe anyone who said they could build a rapid transit for 50 million. Give me a break. It was all pure fantasy. I don't think more than a small handful of people took his suggestion serious when he said it... he was only trying to restore his declining political career.

[jimj_wpg]

Salt Lake City is already expanding their LRT and also is putting in commuter rail...

Watch as 20something citizen journalist outlines the plans...

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=9yQAtmhsof4

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=iCTA95vB4c4

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=I0dj5xVsmGg
http://www.rideuta.com/images/frntRnnr.jpg
SOURCE: RideUTA (Salt Lake City Transit)

Oh boy, if we had a commuter rail like the Frontrunner, operating between the Interlake and also between Brandon and Winnipeg it would help keep loads of people off the highways. The capacity of the Frontrunner is 500 passengers.

[vid]

And those cars are made in Thunder Bay (I've actually seen cars with that livery around town, and now I know where they were going. :P) so it would help us! :)

[newflyer]

Salt Lake City is already expanding their LRT and also is putting in commuter rail...

Watch as 20something citizen journalist outlines the plans...

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=9yQAtmhsof4

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=iCTA95vB4c4

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=I0dj5xVsmGg
http://www.rideuta.com/images/frntRnnr.jpg
SOURCE: RideUTA (Salt Lake City Transit)

Oh boy, if we had a commuter rail like the Frontrunner, operating between the Interlake and also between Brandon and Winnipeg it would help keep loads of people off the highways. The capacity of the Frontrunner is 500 passengers.

I would love to see more commuter rail links between Winnipeg and its surrounding suburbs like Selkirk, Steinbech and Portage. All trains would lead to Union Station, making it a central hub.

[viperred88]

I would love to see more commuter rail links between Winnipeg and its surrounding suburbs like Selkirk, Steinbech and Portage. All trains would lead to Union Station, making it a central hub.


that would be sweet.

[JayM]

that would be sweet.

That would be smart!

[1ajs]

I am not sure where you heard that... but Murray's plan went nowhere because there was no plan. Can you believe anyone who said they could build a rapid transit for 50 million. Give me a break. It was all pure fantasy. I don't think more than a small handful of people took his suggestion serious when he said it... he was only trying to restore his declining political career.
no newflyer at the time cn offerd first dibs at land along therer the coridoor witch why so many of us got mad at katz

its amazing what people forget over a couple years..

[newflyer]

no newflyer at the time cn offerd first dibs at land along therer the coridoor witch why so many of us got mad at katz

its amazing what people forget over a couple years..

I remember a whole ton of pure fantasy coming from Murray... I don't once recall CN stating anything beyond they were open to discussions, but just for the sake of aurguement why didn't Murray buy the land if it was available as you say.

[1ajs]

cause he quit his job to run for federalseat

[hexrae]

Transit to test electronic signs (http://cjob.com/News/Local/Story.aspx?ID=1057049)

1/26/2009

Winnipeg Transit is scheduled to begin testing electronic bus departure signs by the end of the month.

The amber and red digital LED signs will display the current time and the wait for the next bus at a number of stops.

A 1.4 million dollar contract was awarded for two types of systems. The signs will be tested on a number of Pembina Highway stops.

I take it that this will utilize GPS? It'd be rather lame if they were LED versions of the paper schedules currently in place.

[Spocket]

I take it that this will utilize GPS? It'd be rather lame if they were LED versions of the paper schedules currently in place.

True but I have to admit that there's nothing worse than standing at a bus stop with neither a watch or a current schedule posted. :haha:

[1ajs]

True but I have to admit that there's nothing worse than standing at a bus stop with neither a watch or a current schedule posted. :haha:
True True TRUE!!!

[Kinguni]

I take it that this will utilize GPS? It'd be rather lame if they were LED versions of the paper schedules currently in place.

Yes. And just think of how much more it will cost to replace one of these when some dumb shit breaks it like they do the paper schedules behind glass.

[hexrae]

True but I have to admit that there's nothing worse than standing at a bus stop with neither a watch or a current schedule posted. :haha:

Idk it it's any worse than having a watch and schedule posted. Since you can actually measure time wasted waiting for a bus that should've arrived quite some time ago. A GPS system would alleviate that at least.

[1ajs]

Idk it it's any worse than having a watch and schedule posted. Since you can actually measure time wasted waiting for a bus that should've arrived quite some time ago. A GPS system would alleviate that at least.
would help maybe alow u to go grab a snack from the local corner store while waiting

[vid]

Thunder Bay has the signs, its part of the GPS/AVL system. The signs are huge and so far unbreakable but one of them had a bunch of dead lights when it was installed. It's based on GPS, and they remove the paper schedules so you can't trip plan anymore.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ac/LED_sign_Brodie.JPG/492px-LED_sign_Brodie.JPG

There is also a little button they have on the bottom now, a computer voice will read the times. (That was taken when the system was still being tested.)

The plastic is pretty resistant to vandalism. If the GPS system doesn't have a time for the bus, the route is dropped from the list, but the website uses schedule times when there is no GPS data.

[jimj_wpg]

I take it that this will utilize GPS? It'd be rather lame if they were LED versions of the paper schedules currently in place.

But didn't WT just spend a gazillion dollars on "upgrading stops" along Pembina Hwy. with those new paper schedule holders at the transit stops????? WTF????

And vid just said that Thunder Bay Transit has stopped publishing the paper schedules

[jimj_wpg]

http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/02/05/mta-scraping-the-bus-arrival-board-project/

NYC MTA scraps electronic bus info sign project...

The above post was from early '08, but what were the technical problems that prevented furthe use?

And why, after almost 15 years of transit systems talking about this technology is this all of a sudden being implemented around the same time.... Is there something Orwellian about it?

[vid]

^It suddenly got really cheap. Thunder Bay's whole system cost less than replacing two buses. (Though they replaced eight of them anyway. They really hate Newflyers.)

TBTransit hasn't stopped publishing paper schedules, they took down the board with bus schedules on them at the bus terminals. They don't have anywhere to get schedules at the terminal either, you can only get them on buses. They seem to have stopped updating their paper maps though. Routes have come and gone and a dozen things have changed since the last update, which still has the old fare on it. It's been 18 months now!

The problem in New York might be similar to a problem we have here. The computer system doesn't seem to understand the interlining scheme, so it mixes up the time. If you know what buses change when they arrive you can figure it out but most people get confused and just bitch about taxes when they don't understand the sign. (Which is often, this city is kinda dumb.)

For example, route 9 becomes route 11 when it gets downtown. The arrival time for route 9 is actually the time that the bus on route 11 will get there, as that bus is still running on 9's route, while the arrival for route 11 on the sign is for when the 9 gets to the terminal, as the 11 is the 9 until it leaves. Which is confusing. It gets worse when you have one route becoming one of two routes depending on which time it arrives at the terminal, and in that case you have to know the times and interlining scheme of five routes. Except at night, when they become 5 routes in 2 routes, with three routes in one and two routes in the other.

It's a wonderful system.

[jimj_wpg]

:previous:

In other words, it's a focked up system.

Interlining always makes buses have the "Not in Service" signs, deadheading back to the burbs or whereever, all except serving the passengers.

[1ajs]

^It suddenly got really cheap. Thunder Bay's whole system cost less than replacing two buses. (Though they replaced eight of them anyway. They really hate Newflyers.)

TBTransit hasn't stopped publishing paper schedules, they took down the board with bus schedules on them at the bus terminals. They don't have anywhere to get schedules at the terminal either, you can only get them on buses. They seem to have stopped updating their paper maps though. Routes have come and gone and a dozen things have changed since the last update, which still has the old fare on it. It's been 18 months now!

The problem in New York might be similar to a problem we have here. The computer system doesn't seem to understand the interlining scheme, so it mixes up the time. If you know what buses change when they arrive you can figure it out but most people get confused and just bitch about taxes when they don't understand the sign. (Which is often, this city is kinda dumb.)

For example, route 9 becomes route 11 when it gets downtown. The arrival time for route 9 is actually the time that the bus on route 11 will get there, as that bus is still running on 9's route, while the arrival for route 11 on the sign is for when the 9 gets to the terminal, as the 11 is the 9 until it leaves. Which is confusing. It gets worse when you have one route becoming one of two routes depending on which time it arrives at the terminal, and in that case you have to know the times and interlining scheme of five routes. Except at night, when they become 5 routes in 2 routes, with three routes in one and two routes in the other.

It's a wonderful system.

:koko:makes no sens at all

[JayM]

The only bus route for WT I think is weird is route 24 Ness because its a regular route and then its an Express as well. Its not totally hard to figure out but that's about all i can think of.

[1ajs]

the 19 has a screwy one where its 2 difrent roughts

19 Logan
19 notre dame

[Spocket]

Route 16 is messed up since while it goes downtown , one branch goes to Island Lakes while the other branch goes to St. Vital Center. It really should be two seperate routes.

[1ajs]

Route 16 is messed up since while it goes downtown , one branch goes to Island Lakes while the other branch goes to St. Vital Center. It really should be two seperate routes.
also once u get to mcphilops it does that also its weird

[vid]

the 19 has a screwy one where its 2 difrent roughts

19 Logan
19 notre dame

Ok, this is one of our routes, if you want screwy:

3 Memorial (Which is the part of the route between terminals and also has two extra routes associated with it, 3 Water and 3 Brodie, which run five minutes ahead of the normal bus but only when a driver is available.)
3 Memorial Airport (Only part of the route during the day, at night it interlines with 8 James which is part of the Triple J group of 6 routes during the day)
3 Memorial County Park
3 Memorial Jumbo Gardens (Which only runs during the day, at night it's part of the Triple J group of 6 routes, combined with Route 11 John to become Route 11 John-Jumbo Gardens, but the GPS system called it 13 John-Jumbo Gardens and the display calls it John-Jumbo Gardens. Neat, huh?)
3 Memorial Northwood (via Arthur during the day)
3 Memorial Northwood (via Victoria in evenings and sometimes called 10 Northwood-College or just Northwood-College)

That's one route. It used to be 6! The combined the whole thing. It's the backbone of the system.

Interlining here doesn't have not in service signs, the bus just stops being on one route and starts being on another. It allows you to go from your neighbourhood to somewhere else in the city without having to interline, usually. That's why the 3 Memorial routes are all combined like that. Only Route 1 Mainline is not interlined, and it's made of two routes, Current River and Westfort, depending on direction.

I'm sure you understand why the computer is confused.

2 Crosstown/7 Hudson/12 East End is another fun route, it causes endless confusion!

Oh, and we have to post a map of 19 McIntyre:

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/6361/19mcintyreqn8.jpg

That's one route, and it had to do that whole thing in 2 hours. It was never on time, and no one used it.

So stop complaining. :hug:

[1ajs]

sounds like the 19 hahah!!

anyhow the longest bus route is the 77

[vid]

How long is it?

BTW: On the bus display, 19 McIntyre was 15 McIntyre, even though route 15 is the AM Loop but no one knows that because they don't use it.

[JayM]

How long is it?

BTW: On the bus display, 19 McIntyre was 15 McIntyre, even though route 15 is the AM Loop but no one knows that because they don't use it.

The 77 you could sleep on it! I think its like 1.5hrs from point A to B. Which is Polo Park S.C. to Kildonan Place S.C.

Route 16 is messed up since while it goes downtown , one branch goes to Island Lakes while the other branch goes to St. Vital Center. It really should be two seperate routes.

Some routes are like that. Route '55 St. Annes' has via Dakota and via Meadowood and I can tell you I always make sure I take the Dakota. Like I need another ten minutes longer on that route. They have feeder routes and express routes eliminate the Meadowood section.

[1ajs]

and thats why u need the paper displays at the bus stops so u know it has a split

my 1st day of highschool back in 2002 i was 3hrs late for class cause i could not find the bus i was looking for unkowing to me it had been merged and then i hopped on the wrong 19 and wound up at red river hahah instead of tec voc that day was so awkward and confuseing

[JayM]

I think there should be link from Brandon-Portage la Prairie-Winnipeg-Selkirk.

[Spocket]

Routes that loop around an area in alternating directions is a pain sometimes but they're not confusing at least. Crosstown routes take forever because they deviate so far from what should be fairly straightforward plans (like , wouldn't it be easier if the 77 just took Lagimodiere to Springfield then on to Chief Peguis , Main, Inkster , and finally Route 90 to Polo Park ?) It's the routes that are "Y" shaped that I hate. The 16 goes across town and does a loop in the North End which is fine. After Osborne it splits though and that's what I think is stupid. One branch goes east and the other branch goes south. It should be two different routes entirely since, for all practical purposes, it is.

Anyway, at least with some fixed transit corridor (whatever form it ultimately takes) the milk-run routes will probably be reconfigured and we'll get a faster trip even with a transfer.

[vid]

1 Mainline is a 2 hour long loop, as is the Crosstown/Hudson/East End lines. Not A to B (More like A to C to A to D to B to D to A to C to A) but still long.

[J-MAN]

this article about rapid transit in hamilton is preaty sexy :notacrook:

http://www.raisethehammer.org/index.asp?id=458

brt is look'in very sexy :slob:

http://www.raisethehammer.org/images/futuristic_brt.jpg
http://www.raisethehammer.org/images/upper_james_transit_median.jpg

[viperred88]

this article about rapid transit in hamilton is preaty sexy :notacrook:

http://www.raisethehammer.org/index.asp?id=458

brt is look'in very sexy :slob:

http://www.raisethehammer.org/images/futuristic_brt.jpg
http://www.raisethehammer.org/images/upper_james_transit_median.jpg


thats probably what we are getting by the looks of things.

[newflyer]

But didn't WT just spend a gazillion dollars on "upgrading stops" along Pembina Hwy. with those new paper schedule holders at the transit stops????? WTF????

And vid just said that Thunder Bay Transit has stopped publishing the paper schedules

The paper holders were temporary while the new GPS systems were installed on all the Buses and the new signs were on order.


FYI .. paper sign holders don't cost zillions... yet gazillions. ;)

[newflyer]

Knowing how some of you are overly obsessed about rapid transit ... and have shown little patience for our own, I can only imagine how you might be if Winnipeg had developed a subway system and then never used the damn thing. I am sure a few of you would lose it. I mean burst a blood vessel in your brain... checked in the loonie bin nuts if that were true.

Take a look if you dare, but I have warned you... :P

http://www.cincinnati-transit.net/subway.html

[Reed Solomon]

this article about rapid transit in hamilton is preaty sexy :notacrook:

http://www.raisethehammer.org/index.asp?id=458

brt is look'in very sexy :slob:

http://www.raisethehammer.org/images/futuristic_brt.jpg
http://www.raisethehammer.org/images/upper_james_transit_median.jpg

UGH

Knowing how some of you are overly obsessed about rapid transit ... and have shown little patience for our own, I can only imagine how you might be if Winnipeg had developed a subway system and then never used the damn thing. I am sure a few of you would lose it. I mean burst a blood vessel in your brain... checked in the loonie bin nuts if that were true.

Take a look if you dare, but I have warned you...

http://www.cincinnati-transit.net/subway.html


Baby, if you've ever wondered. Wondered whatever became of me, I'm living underground in Cincinati... Cincinati subterannean LRT.

[1ajs]

Knowing how some of you are overly obsessed about rapid transit ... and have shown little patience for our own, I can only imagine how you might be if Winnipeg had developed a subway system and then never used the damn thing. I am sure a few of you would lose it. I mean burst a blood vessel in your brain... checked in the loonie bin nuts if that were true.

Take a look if you dare, but I have warned you... :P

http://www.cincinnati-transit.net/subway.html
wow thats random

[JayM]

Thats funny! Imagine that in Winnipeg be like the Underground Walkway.

[1ajs]

calgarys got an abandond part of a underground lrt line in their downtown

[Greco Roman]

calgarys got an abandond part of a underground lrt line in their downtown

Do you have a source to show this is true?

[Biff]

Even though i believe now that the $600 million proposed in the "shovel ready projects" release is for both the southern leg and eastern (transcona) leg of the bus rapid transit, i recently spoke with a very well placed, highly regarded source who would know who told be he "believes" the BRT may be a code for LRT and that they are working very hard behind the scenes on a rail system. This may not work out in the end but they are working on it.

...wow did i write all of that with no periods?

[wags_in_the_peg]

Knowing how some of you are overly obsessed about rapid transit ... and have shown little patience for our own, I can only imagine how you might be if Winnipeg had developed a subway system and then never used the damn thing. I am sure a few of you would lose it. I mean burst a blood vessel in your brain... checked in the loonie bin nuts if that were true.

Take a look if you dare, but I have warned you... :P

http://www.cincinnati-transit.net/subway.html

ha funny stuff, my co-workers were in Cin last week and they were telling me about this. I was there about 1.5 yrs ago and never heard of it.

[1ajs]

Do you have a source to show this is true?
its been descused on this forum many times just go ask the calgary forumers one of them will glady point u to photos and such

[TSN]

Do you have a source to show this is true?

Actually, Calgary was doing at least something proactively transit-wise, unlike Winnipeg. I'll probably get beaten for this comment but it's true.

It wasn't abandoned, there is part of an tunnel that starts a bit before the south LRT surfaces on its entry into the downtown. The tunnel was there to accomodate future expansion of LRT, such a south-east or east-west leg to remove the additional congestion brought on by more LRT trains in the downtown. Would run somewhere under 9th Ave or maybe Stephen Ave.

That's my recollection.

[1ajs]

yes tsn something like that theres photos and a map somewhere in the calgary transt thread also

[jimj_wpg]

Even though i believe now that the $600 million proposed in the "shovel ready projects" release is for both the southern leg and eastern (transcona) leg of the bus rapid transit, i recently spoke with a very well placed, highly regarded source who would know who told be he "believes" the BRT may be a code for LRT and that they are working very hard behind the scenes on a rail system. This may not work out in the end but they are working on it.

...wow did i write all of that with no periods?

Can we start to "hold our breath" then?

Just $400 M more to raise, then we can start diggin'.

[Only The Lonely..]

Even though i believe now that the $600 million proposed in the "shovel ready projects" release is for both the southern leg and eastern (transcona) leg of the bus rapid transit, i recently spoke with a very well placed, highly regarded source who would know who told be he "believes" the BRT may be a code for LRT and that they are working very hard behind the scenes on a rail system. This may not work out in the end but they are working on it.

...wow did i write all of that with no periods?

Thanks for giving us hope.

[Greco Roman]

Even though i believe now that the $600 million proposed in the "shovel ready projects" release is for both the southern leg and eastern (transcona) leg of the bus rapid transit, i recently spoke with a very well placed, highly regarded source who would know who told be he "believes" the BRT may be a code for LRT and that they are working very hard behind the scenes on a rail system. This may not work out in the end but they are working on it.

...wow did i write all of that with no periods?

No, you wrote all of THAT without periods ;)

[jimj_wpg]

Thus said Biff:

This may not work out in the end, but they are working on it.Priceless. :tup: :deal: :gaah:

Note the missing comma I had to add.

[vid]

Rochester also has an abandoned subway. It wasn't very big though. Urbexers love it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochester_Subway

[Only The Lonely..]

Even though i believe now that the $600 million proposed in the "shovel ready projects" release is for both the southern leg and eastern (transcona) leg of the bus rapid transit, i recently spoke with a very well placed, highly regarded source who would know who told be he "believes" the BRT may be a code for LRT and that they are working very hard behind the scenes on a rail system. This may not work out in the end but they are working on it.

...wow did i write all of that with no periods?

I mentioned this to someone else who's in the know with the city, and they also eluded to a behind the scenes push to get Winnipeg an LRT system.

We can only hope.

[sledhead35]

:previous: hope. so far today i've been to freepress, globeandmail, and this site and i think this was the first thing ive read that isnt negative. it may be false hope, but im going with it. for today. geez, depressing day in the media's got everybody down.:shrug:

[1ajs]

on the postive note the global melt down is getting us an upgrade

[h0twired]

on the postive note the global melt down is getting us an upgrade

upgrade?

what upgrade?

[jimj_wpg]

I mentioned this to someone else who's in the know with the city, and they also eluded to a behind the scenes push to get Winnipeg an LRT system.

We can only hope.

Isn't that a buzzword that people use in relation to Cancer?

[Only The Lonely..]

Isn't that a buzzword that people use in relation to Cancer?

Well, in this case the cancer is our failed dreams as a city..

Which is why we have slid from 3rd biggest to 9th after Hamilton over the course of a century.


If only we had followed through on Juba's monorail..:rolleyes:

[1ajs]

upgrade?

what upgrade?
this rummor of a lrt

[h0twired]

this rummor of a lrt

what rumour?

[Reed Solomon]

what rumour?

there is a rumour that we'll be getting LRT. The basis for the rumours are

1) There's more money for infrastructure spending heading this way from Ottawa, thanks to deficit spending to kick the economy back on the right track.

2) if the economy is doing poorly, there will be more tradespeople available to do the job, thereby limiting the amount of overtime required

3) materials will be cheaper. Especially with protectionism being touted in the USA, again, making LRT more likely.

4) Katz wants it

5) Someone flipped a coin.

[The Jabroni]

If these rumours turn out true, then Winnipeg DOES have a future!!

Of course, cautious optimism is going overtime on these sorts of things already. :rolleyes:

[vid]

LRT will solve EVERYTHING! :5:

[newflyer]

If these rumours turn out true, then Winnipeg DOES have a future!!

Of course, cautious optimism is going overtime on these sorts of things already. :rolleyes:

I am all for a LRT system, but I can assure a LRT will not determine if the city has a future. At the end of the day it is a just a transit vehicle on rails. It won't be some kind of magic bullet, nor is it being portrayed as such.

Winnipeg will have a future, because it is working to build its tax base and making it inviting to invest and live in.. and its the growth of the local economy which will determine if the city can afford a fancy city rail service.

Just to think 6 years ago .... the best the city could ever dream of is BRT, and even that promise was little more than a pipe dream .. since then the city has seen steady and strong growth.

Today Winnipeg absolutely has a bright future!! ... and rapid transit will naturally follow.

[newflyer]

Well, in this case the cancer is our failed dreams as a city..

Which is why we have slid from 3rd biggest to 9th after Hamilton over the course of a century.


If only we had followed through on Juba's monorail..:rolleyes:

I hope you are joking .. the decline of Winnipeg was a great deal more than what type of transit system we had.

Its called not having a economic development plan worth the paper it was written on for decades. Having mayors who put business priorities low on the priority list... some dreaming of some type socialist utopia. The cityhall was completely satisfied being a city of little economic growth for decades, and did very little to attract investment, while companies and people poored out. The tax base declined.. and the city went deep into debt, locking itself into stagnation... and eliminating its ability to pay for any significant infrastructure... including rapid transit.

[Spocket]

^Partially true but the main reasons have little to do with anything that Winnipeg was in control of. From the Panama Canal to the oil in Alberta , we really had little influence on the situation and we couldn't really have had much of one either. Could we have done more ? Yes, I would agree that we could have. Three decades of vision-less mayoring and an ossified council didn't help.

[newflyer]

^Partially true but the main reasons have little to do with anything that Winnipeg was in control of. From the Panama Canal to the oil in Alberta , we really had little influence on the situation and we couldn't really have had much of one either. Could we have done more ? Yes, I would agree that we could have. Three decades of vision-less mayoring and an ossified council didn't help.



I agree that the Panama Canal had huge impact on Winnipeg, as it did for Chicago and Minniapolis, St.Louis and Kansas City ... but those cities moved on and found new ways to become dynamic cities into the future.

Winnipeg just rolled over and died ... and instead of embracing new lines of business it ignored the world of business and watched as the world passed it by. Where was the leadership??? ... some say it just picked up and moved to a new land known as Alberta. Decades of failure and acceptance of that failure made it what it became.

Thank goodness the city is back in the game of building a strong economic base. FINALLY!!!!

[jimj_wpg]

Well, in this case the cancer is our failed dreams as a city..

Which is why we have slid from 3rd biggest to 9th after Hamilton over the course of a century.


If only we had followed through on Juba's monorail..:rolleyes:

We're still 200k population above Hamilton, for the time being.

[jimj_wpg]

5) Someone flipped a coin.


Oooooh. I like that one. :haha:

[jimj_wpg]

http://blog.uwinnipeg.ca/ChristopherLeo/archives/2009/02/whats_your_pref.html#more

Professor Leo raises questions about the (easy) accessibility of Morley Station. :rolleyes:

[newflyer]

http://blog.uwinnipeg.ca/ChristopherLeo/archives/2009/02/whats_your_pref.html#more

Professor Leo raises questions about the (easy) accessibility of Morley Station. :rolleyes:

It will involve a park'n'ride and covered pedestrian bridges over the rail lines.

[jimj_wpg]

(http://www.winnipegsun.com/comment/2009/02/03/8243711-sun.html#/comment/2009/02/03/pf-8243711.html)

http://www.winnipegsun.com/comment/2009/02/03/8243711-sun.html#/comment/2009/02/03/pf-8243711.html

Lots of dough and no plan

By TIM FRIESEN
Last Updated: 3rd February 2009, 4:06am


Harper: Well my aids tell me you folks in Winnipeg don't even have a rapid transit system yet. That's hilarious! But seriously, you know what you want to build, right? You just need the money.


Katz: Ummm.


Harper: Sammy? You've got the thing designed, right?


Katz: Well ...


Harper: Do the voters know even where this thing is going to go? Are they excited about it? We have 18 months to get shovels in the ground -- no messing around.


Katz: We've ... got ... one ... line ... laid ... out ... Phase 2 even goes to the university.


*click*


---
OK, so this conversation might or might not have taken place over the holiday season.


But the point remains that city hall has missed a glorious chance to put shovels in the ground on rapid transit.
Transit studies since the 1950s have highlighted the need to move people across the city efficiently and affordably. In 1959, Norman Wilson already pointed out that "public transportation will have to be made more competitive with the private automobile if it is to become an attractive mode of intra-city travel."


Despite many lacklustre efforts since then, we still haven't solved that one. Instead, we have $170 a month parking downtown and gridlock at major shopping areas like Polo Park on evenings, weekends and throughout December.
Aside from high school students, people below the poverty line and a few intrepid business commuters, most Winnipeggers don't even consider transit as a viable way to get around.


To its credit, city hall has made great strides in slowing traffic so that driving still takes almost as long as taking the bus. Winnipeg, after all, still embraces "traffic softening" as inspired public policy. The brilliant minds behind Waverley West have even transformed one of the city's last efficient corridors -- Bison Drive to the Perimeter -- into a meandering, two-lane, 60 km/h Sunday drive. But instead of making the Winnipeg driving experience worse, wouldn't it be great to make our transit system better?
Every major city on the planet has implemented transit systems that get people around efficiently and by more affordable means.


Some of those planners even managed this in cities that are hundreds of years old, with cobblestone streets. Why haven't we been able to even design a rapid transit system worth getting excited about? Instead, we've barely managed to map out the route from downtown to Osborne Village.


Besides a sketchy plan to reach the University of Manitoba, we don't even have a hot clue what to do next. And now that there is enough money bubbling out of Ottawa to build rapid transit three times over, we're stuck on the sidelines once again sucking our thumb.


Perhaps if we spent a little less time winging about what kinds of hot dogs they'll sell at the stations and a little more time actually putting plans on the table, we would be ready the next time opportunity knocks.

[Biff]

I have been told by a senior engineer working on the rapid transit project that they have been working on the design and overall plan for over two years. I think this is one of those scenarios where there is a lot more going on behind the scenes than people know about.

[Kinguni]

To its credit, city hall has made great strides in slowing traffic so that driving still takes almost as long as taking the bus. Winnipeg, after all, still embraces "traffic softening" as inspired public policy.

Eh, it slows the buses down too. Wouldn't take much to synchronize a few lights. Oh, but our dear mayor was supposed to be getting that done already! Takes a committee I guess. Or one engineer using his brain maybe. :rolleyes:

[jimj_wpg]

Tim Friesen wrote:
Eh, it slows the buses down too. Wouldn't take much to synchronize a few lights. Oh, but our dear mayor was supposed to be getting that done already! Takes a committee I guess. Or one engineer using his brain maybe. :rolleyes::previous:

Tim Friesen wrote that, not I.