[Kinguni]

No news, eh? Heard that our fleet size is to be increased by 10 buses for the start of BRT. 30 new buses are arriving now, but only 20 will be retired. That's the only news.

[armorand93]

No news, eh? Heard that our fleet size is to be increased by 10 buses for the start of BRT. 30 new buses are arriving now, but only 20 will be retired. That's the only news.

Xcelisors right? And I've seen quite a few Inveros pop up lately. As for the D40's, they should at least keep them for rush hour or the red river ex. Maybe donate them to Cuba. Something other than the scrapyard :P

[Kinguni]

Xcelisors right? And I've seen quite a few Inveros pop up lately. As for the D40's, they should at least keep them for rush hour or the red river ex. Maybe donate them to Cuba. Something other than the scrapyard :P

No Xcelsiors yet. Maybe next year? We only have 10 Inviros too, and they typically aren't out past afternoon rush hour, and won't be out in hot weather (lack of ventilation). The buses that will be scrapped need to be scrapped BTW. Nothing they can be re-used for other than parts. Likely will be a mix of MCI's and D40's that go, based on which buses are in the worst condition.

[armorand93]

No Xcelsiors yet. Maybe next year? We only have 10 Inviros too, and they typically aren't out past afternoon rush hour, and won't be out in hot weather (lack of ventilation). The buses that will be scrapped need to be scrapped BTW. Nothing they can be re-used for other than parts. Likely will be a mix of MCI's and D40's that go, based on which buses are in the worst condition.

that sucks about the d40's. grew up on those things :(

any articulated ones yet?

[h0twired]

that sucks about the d40's. grew up on those things :(

That's nice. However they are completely useless to people with mobility issues, they are loud, uncomfortable and their high centre of gravity makes it a pain to have to stand on while riding.

It is pathetic that Winnipeg still uses high floor buses.

[Kinguni]

any articulated ones yet?

Not until next year at the earliest, and certainly not until the storage garage is built. Still hearing we might end up with Nova buses, especially given the problems New Flyer has with quality control. 30 new buses from Flyer coming in, so many manufacturing defects that the ones we took delivery of a couple of weeks ago might not be on the road for a couple of months still.

[Kinguni]

That's nice. However they are completely useless to people with mobility issues, they are loud, uncomfortable and their high centre of gravity makes it a pain to have to stand on while riding.

It is pathetic that Winnipeg still uses high floor buses.

Still a target date of 2014 for their elimination. Might be a few than hang on longer though. Plus they seat 14 more people than a low floor bus. Maybe soon they'll just be out for peak service on University routes.

[Bdog]

That's nice. However they are completely useless to people with mobility issues, they are loud, uncomfortable and their high centre of gravity makes it a pain to have to stand on while riding.

It is pathetic that Winnipeg still uses high floor buses.

Even cities like Toronto still use high floor busses on some routes...

[cheswick]

That's nice. However they are completely useless to people with mobility issues, they are loud, uncomfortable and their high centre of gravity makes it a pain to have to stand on while riding.

It is pathetic that Winnipeg still uses high floor buses.

Disagree about comfort. I find the older busses with the blue seats way more comfortable. Back in the day on the way to/from unversity I would fall asleep so easily on those bad boys. I hate the hard plastic moulded seats they use now. Any of the sideways seats are too tight whenever the proscribed number of people sit in them. The first row in the upper level's have a black column thing that protrudes where your knee should be. Really awful.

Since im reminicing has anyone ever ridden back in the day on this odd ball bus that the entire back half was just a large sideways bench? Not just the usual bench over the wheel. What was that about?

Also of note most busses in montreal only have one seat per side rather than the two you see here. Not sure if that's the same for other major cities.

[rypinion]

Since im reminicing has anyone ever ridden back in the day on this odd ball bus that the entire back half was just a large sideways bench? Not just the usual bench over the wheel. What was that about?

I remember that one. Now that I live downtown I rarely take the bus, but I do recall still being on that bus occasionally in the last couple of years.

[armorand93]

Calgary still uses GMC Fishbowls and MCIs for suburban routes

[Kinguni]

I hate the hard plastic moulded seats they use now. Any of the sideways seats are too tight whenever the proscribed number of people sit in them. The first row in the upper level's have a black column thing that protrudes where your knee should be. Really awful.You'll like the new buses. Padded seats and the backs are contoured for more legroom.

Since im reminicing has anyone ever ridden back in the day on this odd ball bus that the entire back half was just a large sideways bench? Not just the usual bench over the wheel. What was that about?We had 10 of those buses, GM's that came from Calgary so that was Calgary specs for the time. Numbered 290-299. They were retired with the rest of the fishbowls in 1999.

Also of note most busses in montreal only have one seat per side rather than the two you see here. Not sure if that's the same for other major cities.That's just how Montreal orders them. Quebec as a whole is funny in that their buses have to have rear windows.

[Riverman]

the problems New Flyer has with quality control. 30 new buses from Flyer coming in, so many manufacturing defects that the ones we took delivery of a couple of weeks ago might not be on the road for a couple of months still.

Why is this? What kind of issues? Just curious.

[armorand93]

Hopefully, the problems aren't related to their Q4 losses

[Kinguni]

Why is this? What kind of issues? Just curious.

No idea. Just serious enough to keep them off the road. "3 pages of defects on the first bus of the series, bus 140". Consider, if you will, that the 10 Inviro models we have took well over a year from delivery until they were first used in service. Not that bad with these new buses, but just an example. Or the first 43 D40LF models received in the fall of 1998, all of which were pulled off the road not long after they went into service for the first time until spring of 1999 to fix a front suspension related component, defective from the factory due to an inferior part being substituted for one that was out of stock. NFI has a history of poor quality control that they need to fix.

I'm looking forward to driving a Nova bus in the future. :cool:

[armorand93]

Dos anybody know if theres an D40LF in Winnipeg Transit with Edmonton-style rear doors?

[armorand93]

I SWEAR i saw one going down Ellice today

[Kinguni]

Dos anybody know if theres an D40LF in Winnipeg Transit with Edmonton-style rear doors?

Edmonton style? You mean the wider rear doors? 991, 992 and 993 have those doors.

[armorand93]

Edmonton style? You mean the wider rear doors? 991, 992 and 993 have those doors.

Yeah! I've been living in this city my whole life, and I've only seen them that day :P

991 down 14 at arlington

[Kinguni]

Yeah! I've been living in this city my whole life, and I've only seen them that day :P

991 down 14 at arlington

All 3 were delivered in 1994 and are the only buses we have powered by the Detroit Diesel S50. It's an inline 4 cylinder diesel. When I started in '95 there was typically only one of these buses on the road at any given time due to mechanical problems (cracked engine blocks etc.). They were used almost exclusively on the 10 St. Boniface/Wolseley. Originally they were numbered 401-403, but were renumbered in 1998 when deliveries of the next group of D40LF (401-443) were due to be delivered. They are also the only D40LF in the fleet with rear windows. Rumour has it that these 3 buses were given to Winnipeg Transit by New Flyer to make up for delays in delivering the last 30 D40's (670-699).

[armorand93]

Ah, that explains it! Wonder if the high-floors could be used for BRT til we get D60LFR's ,or possibly more Inveros or maybe even Novabuse's (with their un-necessarily huge right door while the left ones barely a decmimentre in size)

[Kinguni]

Ah, that explains it! Wonder if the high-floors could be used for BRT til we get D60LFR's ,or possibly more Inveros or maybe even Novabuse's (with their un-necessarily huge right door while the left ones barely a decmimentre in size)

Won't be any high floors used for BRT. They won't be able to accommodate the routes with their roller signs. The Invero was a failed bus design long discontinued. Best we'll see near term might be Excelsior models, next year earliest. Nothing on order so far as I know.

[armorand93]

Can the rolls be changed though? plus the new ones should be less bulkier since theres gonna be only a few routes of the BRT (along with few destinations)

As for the Invero, that sucks. They created alot of hype when some of my friends saw them for the first time

I was going through CPTDB (Canadian Public Transit Discussion Board) and theres some Xcelisors on the NFI Dugald lot apparently, Winnipeg-looking (except no rear grills and the back routelight is in the upper right corner)

[roccerfeller]

I just picked up a Uniter paper at Baked Expectations the other day and tehre is some discussion regarding Rapid Transit

What I took from the article was: its stalled right now and nothing will likely get in motion until Phase 1 is complete, up, and running, cause Katz and several city councilors wants LRT to be implemented in Phase 2 along with a full network plan. Good news on the network plan, but bad news on the stalling. Its also making the funding questionable.

There was a nice suggestion by a volunteer writer regarding a proposal on how to get funding, as proposed by former mayor Glen Murray. Murray was pretty awesome, was he not? It was something along the lines of a loan being repaid over time as property values steadily increased over the years. He recently chatted with Murray, who brought that up again.




Judging based off the article, it sounds like to me, there just simply isn't enough of a drive and priority being placed on this RT stuff. Which is very disappointing.

[armorand93]

I just picked up a Uniter paper at Baked Expectations the other day and tehre is some discussion regarding Rapid Transit

What I took from the article was: its stalled right now and nothing will likely get in motion until Phase 1 is complete, up, and running, cause Katz and several city councilors wants LRT to be implemented in Phase 2 along with a full network plan. Good news on the network plan, but bad news on the stalling. Its also making the funding questionable.

There was a nice suggestion by a volunteer writer regarding a proposal on how to get funding, as proposed by former mayor Glen Murray. Murray was pretty awesome, was he not? It was something along the lines of a loan being repaid over time as property values steadily increased over the years. He recently chatted with Murray, who brought that up again.




Judging based off the article, it sounds like to me, there just simply isn't enough of a drive and priority being placed on this RT stuff. Which is very disappointing.

That'd explain why I haven't seen any construction activity except btwn Fort Rouge and Osborne Station

[c vist]

That'd explain why I haven't seen any construction activity except btwn Fort Rouge and Osborne Station

No ... That's the only part planned and in City approved budgets at the moment. Once the first leg is built and it gets some attention, let's hope for more!

[Kinguni]

Won't be more as long as Katz is distracting the public by saying he wants the province to help fund LRT. LRT won't happen for a long time. BRT will service Winnipeg better.

[Bdog]

Won't be more as long as Katz is distracting the public by saying he wants the province to help fund LRT. LRT won't happen for a long time. BRT will service Winnipeg better.

I agree completely. In my opinion, Katz's promotion of LRT is simply a stall tactic to ensure that he can continue to divert infrastructure money to road expansions and other such projects (not saying that those projects aren't priorities either)... I'll give Katz credit: Over the course of his mayorship, he's been quite astute at passing the buck onto other levels of government...

[Boreal]

Won't be more as long as Katz is distracting the public by saying he wants the province to help fund LRT. LRT won't happen for a long time. BRT will service Winnipeg better.

Yessir. Completely agree. :tup:

LRT makes absolutely no sense in Winnipeg right now or for the foreseeable future.

[Joshy]

Yessir. Completely agree. :tup:

LRT makes absolutely no sense in Winnipeg right now or for the foreseeable future.

Completely disagree.

As the population of the city grows, and if urban sprawls become a serious issue, LRT will help to transport a larger mass of people throughout the city, especially in and out of the downtown.

I'm pro-LRT, and that won't change. Here is hoping that the city gets it's act together to plan for the future of the city's public transport needs in a more appropriate way :)

[sledhead35]

Yessir. Completely agree. :tup:

LRT makes absolutely no sense in Winnipeg right now or for the foreseeable future.

doesnt make sense for the forseeable future? you mean because we are undergoing a massive transportation hub cosntruction that could start an economic boom all by it self, downtown reawakening, growing population, relative construction boom? to be honest i can see pros and cons for both sides. but if one were to ignore the upfront cost for a minute(government money is being thrown around like its going out of style, might as well be put towards something useful), it will become more clear that lrt is the way of OUR future.

:yes:

[Kinguni]

I would do one thing different from what's being done now - put the rails in. It can't cost that much more to embed them in the roadway now than in the future. Of course, the roadway is pretty much complete already so when the time does come to convert to LRT they'll have to dig everything up to do it. This indicates to me that we aren't going to see LRT until that pavement needs replacing anyways.

I don't believe that LRT makes sense right now, although the LRT streetcars that Sam Katz touted do make some sense, so long as the RT right of way is shared with buses. No reason that cannot be done. Then we get the best of both worlds - higher capacity articulated streetcars for the busy downtown - U of M loads, but buses using it as well to bypass the heavy Pembina Hwy traffic and provide the point to point service that Winnipegers need in the winter.

It will be a long time before we need an Edmonton or Calgary style LRT and the cost of the extra infrastructure needed to do flexible streetcars makes the possibility of that being done in the near future in spend-thrift Winnipeg highly unlikely.

So, in November the first phase of the "Made in Winnipeg" rapid transit will open, with regular 40' diesel buses still getting stuck in traffic on Pembina Hwy beyond Jubilee, and the best we'll see beyond this is finishing this leg to the U of M as BRT and, government willing, perhaps the BRT expansion to Transcona when the Louis Bridge is replaced in 2017 (current City timeline).

[Kinguni]

LRT makes absolutely no sense in Winnipeg right now or for the foreseeable future.

Depends on what foreseeable is, and at that there are variable. If the cost of gas keeps going up without affordable clean technologies to replace it, then that future is foreseeable. If the population of the city grows more quickly with higher density areas, then it's foreseeable. As for right now, and the next 10 years, no, it makes no sense, unless it increases the appeal of the city to business and creates more growth, but whether that would happen or not is a big gamble. Even Centreport won't create the need for LRT due to it's spread out industrial nature on the fringe of the city.

I would like to see one piece of LRT though - a downtown streetcar to replace the 1 and 2 Spirit.

[armorand93]

It will be a long time before we need an --->Edmonton<--- or Calgary style LRT and the cost of the extra infrastructure needed to do flexible streetcars makes the possibility of that being done in the near future in spend-thrift Winnipeg highly unlikely.


I love how in the LRT study, they did Calgary, but ignored Edmonton (same size, downtowns near-exact, layouts roughly the same as most of the city lies within the inner highway, which is Anthony Henday Drive)

[roccerfeller]

I would do one thing different from what's being done now - put the rails in. It can't cost that much more to embed them in the roadway now than in the future. Of course, the roadway is pretty much complete already so when the time does come to convert to LRT they'll have to dig everything up to do it. This indicates to me that we aren't going to see LRT until that pavement needs replacing anyways.

I don't believe that LRT makes sense right now, although the LRT streetcars that Sam Katz touted do make some sense, so long as the RT right of way is shared with buses. No reason that cannot be done. Then we get the best of both worlds - higher capacity articulated streetcars for the busy downtown - U of M loads, but buses using it as well to bypass the heavy Pembina Hwy traffic and provide the point to point service that Winnipegers need in the winter.

It will be a long time before we need an Edmonton or Calgary style LRT and the cost of the extra infrastructure needed to do flexible streetcars makes the possibility of that being done in the near future in spend-thrift Winnipeg highly unlikely.

So, in November the first phase of the "Made in Winnipeg" rapid transit will open, with regular 40' diesel buses still getting stuck in traffic on Pembina Hwy beyond Jubilee, and the best we'll see beyond this is finishing this leg to the U of M as BRT and, government willing, perhaps the BRT expansion to Transcona when the Louis Bridge is replaced in 2017 (current City timeline).


Well said, realistic, and I agree w this :cheers:

I wonder though, how come Edmonton & Calgary got their LRT up and running when they were sub 500k population levels?

[Andy6]

Well said, realistic, and I agree w this :cheers:

I wonder though, how come Edmonton & Calgary got their LRT up and running when they were sub 500k population levels?

They were booming, with billions of oil dollars pouring in to a provincial government (Peter Lougheed) that spent money like a drunken sailor, and most of all could count on growth by the 100s of thousands that could be co-ordinated with a rapid transit line. Costs were also lower then -- e.g. public projects could move forward without the environmental studies and public consultation processes we have today.

[armorand93]

I wish we had funding for both BRT and LRT. LRT from Bison/U of M to Downtown, and BRT everywhere else

[Boreal]

Nobody can even report the real costs of LRT. All the boosters conveniently seem to leave out the cost of train depots/yards. As I've always maintained though, I don't think anyone should ever let economic reality get in the way of a fun idea.

Additionally, nobody is reporting the cost of RIDING a potential train. It will cost more then a bus. Winnipeggers are already irate with bus fare.

LRT is a bad idea. It is too costly and we do not have anything that resembles real population density. The bus, while not necessarily sexy, is highly proficient. It does not require new and expensive storage facilities, and since the world does not work at $200 a barrel, we can rule out the spectre of high gas prices extending to time immemorial.

Oh, there is also the small issue of the province being broke, transfer payments being frozen or scaled back in 2012, and the Feds having a deficit to pay down.

[armorand93]

Nobody can even report the real costs of LRT. All the boosters conveniently seem to leave out the cost of train depots/yards. As I've always maintained though, I don't think anyone should ever let economic reality get in the way of a fun idea.

Additionally, nobody is reporting the cost of RIDING a potential train. It will cost more then a bus. Winnipeggers are already irate with bus fare.

LRT is a bad idea. It is too costly and we do not have anything that resembles real population density. The bus, while not necessarily sexy, is highly proficient. It does not require new and expensive storage facilities, and since the world does not work at $200 a barrel, we can rule out the spectre of high gas prices extending to time immemorial.

Oh, there is also the small issue of the province being broke, transfer payments being frozen or scaled back in 2012, and the Feds having a deficit to pay down.

Someday, we're going to need transit that doesn't run on oil. As for LRT, it runs on electricity, provided by Manitoba hydroelectric dams :)

[Kinguni]

Someday, we're going to need transit that doesn't run on oil. As for LRT, it runs on electricity, provided by Manitoba hydroelectric dams :)

Pretty easy and much less costly to make the parts of the system trolley, say U of M to downtown initially, then maybe U of M to Osborne Village.

[Boreal]

Someday, we're going to need transit that doesn't run on oil. As for LRT, it runs on electricity, provided by Manitoba hydroelectric dams :)

Not all buses need a fractionated byproduct of oil either. Oil derivatives will continue to be used as long as they are the cheapest and most reliable.

Also, the politics of it all, is that a move away from a fast bus is a move away from Newflyer. There is something to be said about patronizing local businesses when the opportunity presents itself. It is a small part of the equation, but a part of the equation nonetheless.

Sex appeal aside, a fast bus accomplishes the same goals as LRT if employed correctly. It is a people mover. TOD remains unchanged. The big difference is dollars and cents (and sense).

[MalcolmTucker]

Sex appeal aside, a fast bus accomplishes the same goals as LRT if employed correctly.

Very true, but unfortunately without LRT most places don't seem to put in LRT style corridor exclusivity on a route in their downtowns for example. Perhaps Winnipeg can learn from other places' mistakes, and implement something like the good system's that are coming together in Australia like Brisbane or Adelaide.

Good blog post on brt here: http://www.humantransit.org/2009/11/bus-rapid-transit-some-questions-to-ask.html

[armorand93]

How feasible would it be, to tunnel under Graham or Portage?

[roccerfeller]

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/Manitoba-spending-1-million-to-help-develop-120699084.html

Manitoba spending $1 million to help develop all-electric bus
By: Staff Writer
Posted: 04/26/2011 9:46 AM | Comments: 14
PRINT E–MAIL 5 8 SHARE13 REPORT ERROR
The Manitoba government will spend $1 million towards the development of an all-electric bus, Premier Greg Selinger said today.

The funding is part of deal with Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, New Flyer Industries, Manitoba Hydro and Red River College.
...


This is neat (and I think previously reported?) ;) New Flyer could definitely benefit from building electric buses in the future.

Obviously this is the next logical step in the bus industry, so it would make sense they would be looking towards the future.

[roccerfeller]

Very true, but unfortunately without LRT most places don't seem to put in LRT style corridor exclusivity on a route in their downtowns for example. Perhaps Winnipeg can learn from other places' mistakes, and implement something like the good system's that are coming together in Australia like Brisbane or Adelaide.

Good blog post on brt here: http://www.humantransit.org/2009/11/bus-rapid-transit-some-questions-to-ask.html

Not all buses need a fractionated byproduct of oil either. Oil derivatives will continue to be used as long as they are the cheapest and most reliable.

Also, the politics of it all, is that a move away from a fast bus is a move away from Newflyer. There is something to be said about patronizing local businesses when the opportunity presents itself. It is a small part of the equation, but a part of the equation nonetheless.

Sex appeal aside, a fast bus accomplishes the same goals as LRT if employed correctly. It is a people mover. TOD remains unchanged. The big difference is dollars and cents (and sense).

Both of you, Malcom & Boreal, made excellent points. It is here where the line becomes blurred. Which one is actually better and ultimately better for Winnipeg? Its tough because imo a strong case can be made for either side. I think, because RT has been a prime topic for debate in the city for so long, that the pros and cons for each are not hard to list out.

It is however tough to have the foresight and judge which one will be best.

Kinguini mentioned the best outcome might be a mix, have an LRT leg (the primary leg, and share it with BRT because its being built BRT for now anyways, second phase will move faster if it were built as BRT) and along with a full network plan use BRT to fill everything else in. Obviously plan for upgrades down the road and build with this in mind. I agree with this and his assessment.

Is patchwork the answer I wonder? If one day we will have LRT anyway, why go with BRT? Why not start with LRT? BRT obviously has the advantage on moving in and out of the corridors. This makes sense for a city like Winnipeg where space in the inner portions of the city is not exactly rampantly available nor is it economically feasible to build underground systems.

But as the article posted points out, do you then become dependent on structuring your whole system according to this? Then whats the point in having true, dedicated corridors for Rapid Transit? If a crucial hinge of BRT is that it can go in and out of normal traffic, then why not invest in creating specific lanes for buses (a la the recent diamond lanes, or in some cities in the UK, entire lanes colored in red primarily for buses) alone? Sort of defeats the purpose. It is at this point I don't care for what each system is, but what it represents - and in this case, LRT represents the most "independent" one, with the focus on RT. BRT has its advantages, but build a system for what is meant for, and plan accordingly to that - not just to what is budgetable.

How feasible would it be, to tunnel under Graham or Portage?

In what sense?/what do you specifically mean?

[armorand93]

In what sense?/what do you specifically mean?

LRT Tunnel under Graham or Portage.

As for Phase I, the Osborne Station is going up fast

[roccerfeller]

LRT Tunnel under Graham or Portage.

As for Phase I, the Osborne Station is going up fast

Nice, I'm rarely down that far on Osbourne - if anyone can snap some shots it would be really cool


LRT tunnel under Graham or Portage? Mmm I think a bridge or tunnel to the forks would be more likely/better for space.

For now it looks like its (the corridor) just going to empty on Queen Eliz. drive southward, although I think Kinguini explained this and future plans before...but I have forgotten. Was a while back.

[Kinguni]

For now it looks like its (the corridor) just going to empty on Queen Eliz. drive southward, although I think Kinguini explained this and future plans before...but I have forgotten. Was a while back.

It's on Winnipeg Transit's website. Buses from downtown enter the bus way from Queen Elizabeth II Way at Stradbrook. Buses heading into downtown exit the busway at Harkness using Harkness and Mayfair to get to Main.

[armorand93]

Nice, I'm rarely down that far on Osbourne - if anyone can snap some shots it would be really cool

Will upload some cell pics later

[flatlander]

It's on Winnipeg Transit's website. Buses from downtown enter the bus way from Queen Elizabeth II Way at Stradbrook. Buses heading into downtown exit the busway at Harkness using Harkness and Mayfair to get to Main.

Until those buses appear I'm going to continue to use it as my personal bike path.

[Kinguni]

Until those buses appear I'm going to continue to use it as my personal bike path.

Seen people using it to walk their dogs too.

[Riverman]

Imagine spending this much on a public transit project?

http://urbantoronto.ca/content.php?1996-Eglinton-Scarborough-Crosstown-LRT-Preparing-for-Construction

"...cost estimate for the combined project is $8.2 billion."

[Biff]

Imagine spending this much on a public transit project?

http://urbantoronto.ca/content.php?1996-Eglinton-Scarborough-Crosstown-LRT-Preparing-for-Construction

"...cost estimate for the combined project is $8.2 billion."

It's hard to imagine how that amount of funding would relate to Winnipeg. I mean if you take a basic estimate of the Toronto population (not the GTA - just Toronto) of about 4 million and divide that by Winnipeg's population of about 700,000 you get about 5.5 times larger (rounded). Now divide $8.2 billion by that and you end up with a figure around $1.5 billion. Why can't Winnipeg do a transit related project for even half of that? What is our leg of BRT costing $150 million?

[Riverman]

I didn't do the math as you did, but that is my point exactly Biff.

[armorand93]

If we use Low-Floor LRT/Trams, it shouldn't cost THAT much

[MalcolmTucker]

Low floor trains cost more, if you need higher capacity and don't need as many stops as was originally planned when the low floor cars were ordered for Toronto (every 600m), you can end up saving cash by going for high floor, even with marginally higher station costs.

You also have to remember that this project in Toronto will have ended up absorbing funding from 12 or more budget years once it is done.

A better comparison to make would be to Ottawa, with the Ottawa Transit Tunnel, or even better Kitchener/Waterloo. $790 million project for a CMA of 534,900. Makes Winnipeg's investments seem paltry by comparison.

[armorand93]

Usually, the parking lot is always empty between July and May. Also, there IS bus stop infastructure there, just waiting to be used frequently. I also spot a lack of REGULAR bus service to it

For future routes to it:

(NEW) Route 4 - Headingley Park and Ride (NEW)
Weekly service from Assiniboia Downs (with stop at Unicity) to Grace Hospital
WEEKDAY: 5 am to 9 am (30 mins), 9 am to 3 pm (60 mins), 3 pm to 7 pm (30 mins), 7 pm to 2 am (60 mins)
SATURDAY: 6 am to 2 am (60 mins)
SUNDAY: 10 am to midnight (racedays 60 mins, otherdays 70 mins)
RED RIVER EX: 11 am to 1 am (10 minutes)
*Services MTS Iceplex, Pointe West Auto Park and Assiniboia Downs*

(NEW) Route 5 - Headingley (NEW)
Weekly Service from Headingley to Lumsden busloop (via Assiniboia Downs)
WEEKDAY: 5 am to 9 am (30 mins), 9 am to 3 pm (60 mins), 3 pm to 7 pm (30 mins), 7 pm to 2 am (60 mins)
SATURDAY & SUNDAY: 7 am to 1 am (60 mins)
RED RIVER EX: 2 pm to 2 am (20 mins)
*Services Headingley, Assiniboia Downs, Buchanan Elementary, Hedges Middle and John Taylor schools of the SJASD*

Route 82 - Route Extension to Assiniboia Downs for the daytime hours (goes to Westwood, which has various stores and Westwood Collegiate, along with that Christian School, the YMCA and Grace Hospital)

Theres approx. 300 kids aged 12-18 in Headingley, along with alot of Winnipeg workers. Could that warrant enough need for an D30LF? Maybe an D40LFR? (Routes 4 and 5. 82 already has D30LF)

[Authentic_City]

Usually, the parking lot is always empty between July and May. Also, there IS bus stop infastructure there, just waiting to be used frequently. I also spot a lack of REGULAR bus service to it

For future routes to it:

(NEW) Route 4 - Headingley Park and Ride (NEW)
Weekly service from Assiniboia Downs (with stop at Unicity) to Grace Hospital
WEEKDAY: 5 am to 9 am (30 mins), 9 am to 3 pm (60 mins), 3 pm to 7 pm (30 mins), 7 pm to 2 am (60 mins)
SATURDAY: 6 am to 2 am (60 mins)
SUNDAY: 10 am to midnight (racedays 60 mins, otherdays 70 mins)
RED RIVER EX: 11 am to 1 am (10 minutes)
*Services MTS Iceplex, Pointe West Auto Park and Assiniboia Downs*

(NEW) Route 5 - Headingley (NEW)
Weekly Service from Headingley to Lumsden busloop (via Assiniboia Downs)
WEEKDAY: 5 am to 9 am (30 mins), 9 am to 3 pm (60 mins), 3 pm to 7 pm (30 mins), 7 pm to 2 am (60 mins)
SATURDAY & SUNDAY: 7 am to 1 am (60 mins)
RED RIVER EX: 2 pm to 2 am (20 mins)
*Services Headingley, Assiniboia Downs, Buchanan Elementary, Hedges Middle and John Taylor schools of the SJASD*

Route 82 - Route Extension to Assiniboia Downs for the daytime hours (goes to Westwood, which has various stores and Westwood Collegiate, along with that Christian School, the YMCA and Grace Hospital)

Theres approx. 300 kids aged 12-18 in Headingley, along with alot of Winnipeg workers. Could that warrant enough need for an D30LF? Maybe an D40LFR? (Routes 4 and 5. 82 already has D30LF)

Are these 'future routes' your invention, or is this part of a long term plan by transit?

Headingly was served by Winnipeg Transit until the early 1990s, when the area spit from the City of Winnipeg. If I recall correctly, buses ran (infrequently) on Roblin over the Headingly Bridge and on Portage/Trans Canada. It was not a popular or well used service, but the city was obliged to provide it.

Do school age kids in the suburbs take the bus much these days? Not sure if 300 kids would translate to much ridership. Rapid transit from the Downs to central Winnipeg might be popular if it was a faster or more convenient alternative to driving, but a new bus route to Grace Hospital or Unicity won't likely produce much ridership. Don't people move to Headingly because they want to be away from city life, buses and the unwashed masses? Not sure this is the target market for rapid transit.

[h0twired]

If Headingly wants transit service they can either rejoin the city and pay taxes or start their own commuter service like Selkirk has.

[armorand93]

Are these 'future routes' your invention, or is this part of a long term plan by transit?

Headingly was served by Winnipeg Transit until the early 1990s, when the area spit from the City of Winnipeg. If I recall correctly, buses ran (infrequently) on Roblin over the Headingly Bridge and on Portage/Trans Canada. It was not a popular or well used service, but the city was obliged to provide it.

Do school age kids in the suburbs take the bus much these days? Not sure if 300 kids would translate to much ridership. Rapid transit from the Downs to central Winnipeg might be popular if it was a faster or more convenient alternative to driving, but a new bus route to Grace Hospital or Unicity won't likely produce much ridership. Don't people move to Headingly because they want to be away from city life, buses and the unwashed masses? Not sure this is the target market for rapid transit.

Future routes, all my creating (except the 82 lol). 5 would probably not work, but I believe 4 and 82 would if Assiniboia Downs got turned into an Park and Ride. Also, theres the Racetracks, Pointe West and the new MTS Iceplex. Thats bound to have enough people for service. I also did say 60 minute frequency (one or two buses), on exception of Red Rvier Ex days

[Tower Crane]

I was back in the Peg last weekend and took a good look at the BRT infrastructure being built.......who decided to blow good money on this Mickey Mouse version of Modern Mass Transportation. I'm really dissappointed, Winnipeg City Council need not to look any further than what Edmonton is doing with LRT, it's above ground, underground, servicing hospitals, universities, Oilers rink, Commonwealth Stadium, Downtown, and new lines currently being constructed to service more areas of the city.
Winnipeg should be doing the same thing, the two cities are close in size so where is all the money that should be spent on LRT being diverted too? :gaah:

[Joshy]

And how many DECADES did it take for Edmonton to build an LRT beyond the small northeast line from Clairview to the Downtown/University area? 3, that is right THREE DECADES, or approximately 30 years after it was first built! So Edmonton is a rather lousy comparison to make at this point.

[armorand93]

I was back in the Peg last weekend and took a good look at the BRT infrastructure being built.......who decided to blow good money on this Mickey Mouse version of Modern Mass Transportation. I'm really dissappointed, Winnipeg City Council need not to look any further than what Edmonton is doing with LRT, it's above ground, underground, servicing hospitals, universities, Oilers rink, Commonwealth Stadium, Downtown, and new lines currently being constructed to service more areas of the city.
Winnipeg should be doing the same thing, the two cities are close in size so where is all the money that should be spent on LRT being diverted too? :gaah:

I know. Katz is spending all the new money to fix our rotting infastructure, and during the LRT study, he forgot Edmonton as well. Hope to god Harper brings in transit spending

[Tower Crane]

And how many DECADES did it take for Edmonton to build an LRT beyond the small northeast line from Clairview to the Downtown/University area? 3, that is right THREE DECADES, or approximately 30 years after it was first built! So Edmonton is a rather lousy comparison to make at this point.

I'm not sure of your point or reason for history lesson as it has nothing to do with my post except for the fact that it points out that some cities had some vision and were committing to LRT mass transit 30 years ago, FACT is look at what Edmonton City Council is doing TODAY...NOW versus what Winnipeg City Council is doing TODAY...NOW for it's tax paying citizen's.

[Joshy]

I'm not sure of your point or reason for history lesson as it has nothing to do with my post except for the fact that it points out that some cities had some vision and were committing to LRT mass transit 30 years ago, FACT is look at what Edmonton City Council is doing TODAY...NOW versus what Winnipeg City Council is doing TODAY...NOW for it's tax paying citizen's.

WRONG. What I am doing is showing you that you are comparing a city like Edmonton, who took 30 YEARS to get to a mediocre (at best) LRT system TODAY, to Winnipeg who is likely going to end up in the same boat, unfortunately. So someone from Edmonton criticizing Winnipeg's RT plans fits the bill of "the pot calling the kettle black". And you can try and spin this anyway you want to make your case sound better, but we both know this to be true.

[armorand93]

WRONG. What I am doing is showing you that you are comparing a city like Edmonton, who took 30 YEARS to get to a mediocre (at best) LRT system TODAY, to Winnipeg who is likely going to end up in the same boat, unfortunately. So someone from Edmonton criticizing Winnipeg's RT plans fits the bill of "the pot calling the kettle black". And you can try and spin this anyway you want to make your case sound better, but we both know this to be true.

WELL. Guess my 50th bday (2043) is gonna see the LRT go past the U of W haha

[Authentic_City]

Future routes, all my creating (except the 82 lol). 5 would probably not work, but I believe 4 and 82 would if Assiniboia Downs got turned into an Park and Ride. Also, theres the Racetracks, Pointe West and the new MTS Iceplex. Thats bound to have enough people for service. I also did say 60 minute frequency (one or two buses), on exception of Red Rvier Ex days

I understand the argument for park and ride, but not sure it would work in this location. Wouldn't park and ride near the Unicity Bus Loop make more sense? Folks could jump on one bus and go directly downtown.

How much demand for transit is there at the Downs? Not too many folks take a bus to the Auto Mall and race days are infrequent and seasonal. Perhaps the MTS Iceplex might generate some ridership, but is it enough for regular service? Perhaps you could extend 21, 22 (Portage) service to the Downs during peak hours, on race days, during the Ex, etc. However, I'm still not convinced too many folks in Headingley would take advantage.

I think it is unfortunate that this development occurred beyond or very near city limits. It's too bad the MTS Iceplex wasn't built in a more centrally located part of the city with preexisting transit connections (e.g. old meat packing lands in St. Boniface).

[Authentic_City]

I was back in the Peg last weekend and took a good look at the BRT infrastructure being built.......who decided to blow good money on this Mickey Mouse version of Modern Mass Transportation. I'm really dissappointed, Winnipeg City Council need not to look any further than what Edmonton is doing with LRT, it's above ground, underground, servicing hospitals, universities, Oilers rink, Commonwealth Stadium, Downtown, and new lines currently being constructed to service more areas of the city.
Winnipeg should be doing the same thing, the two cities are close in size so where is all the money that should be spent on LRT being diverted too? :gaah:

Edmonton (CMA Pop = 1,100,000) is actually considerably larger than Winnipeg (CMA Pop = 750,000), so I'm not sure the comparison is entirely fair.

I'm not convinced BRT wouldn't work in Winnipeg -- if our Mayor and City Council would actually follow through with Phase 2 of the plan and go all the Way to UM. However, our current Mayor has repeatedly fumbled the rapid transit ball over the past 8 years or so. Seems he would rather put the money into patching potholes and fixing up outdated community centers. Claims he is holding out for LRT, it's really just an excuse to put the money into infrastructure to support dependency on the personal automobile.

[armorand93]

I understand the argument for park and ride, but not sure it would work in this location. Wouldn't park and ride near the Unicity Bus Loop make more sense? Folks could jump on one bus and go directly downtown.

How much demand for transit is there at the Downs? Not too many folks take a bus to the Auto Mall and race days are infrequent and seasonal. Perhaps the MTS Iceplex might generate some ridership, but is it enough for regular service? Perhaps you could extend 21, 22 (Portage) service to the Downs during peak hours, on race days, during the Ex, etc. However, I'm still not convinced too many folks in Headingley would take advantage.

I think it is unfortunate that this development occurred beyond or very near city limits. It's too bad the MTS Iceplex wasn't built in a more centrally located part of the city with preexisting transit connections (e.g. old meat packing lands in St. Boniface).

For a trial run, the 82 could extend out there for a year. If it works, I guess there'll be some sort of service there!

[rrskylar]

I was back in the Peg last weekend and took a good look at the BRT infrastructure being built.......who decided to blow good money on this Mickey Mouse version of Modern Mass Transportation. I'm really dissappointed, Winnipeg City Council need not to look any further than what Edmonton is doing with LRT, it's above ground, underground, servicing hospitals, universities, Oilers rink, Commonwealth Stadium, Downtown, and new lines currently being constructed to service more areas of the city.
Winnipeg should be doing the same thing, the two cities are close in size so where is all the money that should be spent on LRT being diverted too? :gaah:

Come on man, we'll have a fine human rights museum that NO one will be interested in visiting!

[roccerfeller]

I was back in the Peg last weekend and took a good look at the BRT infrastructure being built.......who decided to blow good money on this Mickey Mouse version of Modern Mass Transportation. I'm really dissappointed, Winnipeg City Council need not to look any further than what Edmonton is doing with LRT, it's above ground, underground, servicing hospitals, universities, Oilers rink, Commonwealth Stadium, Downtown, and new lines currently being constructed to service more areas of the city.
Winnipeg should be doing the same thing, the two cities are close in size so where is all the money that should be spent on LRT being diverted too? :gaah:

I might catch some flak for this, but I agree with this post

His ultimate point is right imo; theoretically, Wpg city council COULD BE doing more and COULD HAVE more vision...

[MalcolmTucker]

Edmonton (CMA Pop = 1,100,000) is actually considerably larger than Winnipeg (CMA Pop = 750,000), so I'm not sure the comparison is entirely fair.

I'm not convinced BRT wouldn't work in Winnipeg -- if our Mayor and City Council would actually follow through with Phase 2 of the plan and go all the Way to UM. However, our current Mayor has repeatedly fumbled the rapid transit ball over the past 8 years or so. Seems he would rather put the money into patching potholes and fixing up outdated community centers. Claims he is holding out for LRT, it's really just an excuse to put the money into infrastructure to support dependency on the personal automobile.

Edmonton was far smaller than 1.1 million when construction started. At the time I wouldn't be surprised if Winnipeg was the larger city.

[roccerfeller]

Edmonton was far smaller than 1.1 million when construction started. At the time I wouldn't be surprised if Winnipeg was the larger city.

Yep, I think Edmonton was less than half the size it is today. And Winnipeg was bigger at time.

But that doesn't really matter imo;

I agree with the notions of what ultimately matters, is today, and what city council in Winnipeg does...

I think we would all most appreciate if they just had a final plan, presented it to the public, got some feedback, adjusted it if need be and then just went with it. "Just get on with it already"

If RT was an absolute priority in Winnipeg, then it would be much further along than it is today, no doubt.

With more vision, too.

[armorand93]

Yep, I think Edmonton was less than half the size it is today. And Winnipeg was bigger at time.

But that doesn't really matter imo;

I agree with the notions of what ultimately matters, is today, and what city council in Winnipeg does...

I think we would all most appreciate if they just had a final plan, presented it to the public, got some feedback, adjusted it if need be and then just went with it. "Just get on with it already"

If RT was an absolute priority in Winnipeg, then it would be much further along than it is today, no doubt.

With more vision, too.

If I was mayor, transit would be my TOP priority

[Bdog]

Come on man, we'll have a fine human rights museum that NO one will be interested in visiting!

rrskylar is right! The amount the City is "wasting" on the CMHR would have been much better spent building roughly 0.3 km of LRT...

[armorand93]

rrskylar is right! The amount the City is "wasting" on the CMHR would have been much better spent building roughly 0.3 km of LRT...

Yay! LRT from the U of W to the Bay!!! xD

[Tower Crane]

WRONG. What I am doing is showing you that you are comparing a city like Edmonton, who took 30 YEARS to get to a mediocre (at best) LRT system TODAY, to Winnipeg who is likely going to end up in the same boat, unfortunately. So someone from Edmonton criticizing Winnipeg's RT plans fits the bill of "the pot calling the kettle black". And you can try and spin this anyway you want to make your case sound better, but we both know this to be true.

What I do know to be true is that yes Edmonton started 30 years ago ( whoa what a bad thing ).
One new added leg is complete and one under construction and 2 more in the works, new train cars ( whoa that's mediocre ).
Same boat ( whoa some people can't tell a bus from a train )
Someone is from Winnipeg who is doing the criticizing ( whoa sounds reasonable and acceptable to make comparisons ).
This isn't a case sound better thing, that's for sensitive people. It's just the plain truth. The truth will set you free.

[rrskylar]

rrskylar is right! The amount the City is "wasting" on the CMHR would have been much better spent building roughly 0.3 km of LRT...

Bdog, your beginning to see the light, money spent fixing pot holes, curbs and sidewalks is money well spent! No tax dollars for culture or the arts!;)

[Joshy]

What I do know to be true is that yes Edmonton started 30 years ago ( whoa what a bad thing ).
One new added leg is complete and one under construction and 2 more in the works, new train cars ( whoa that's mediocre ).
Same boat ( whoa some people can't tell a bus from a train )
Someone is from Winnipeg who is doing the criticizing ( whoa sounds reasonable and acceptable to make comparisons ).
This isn't a case sound better thing, that's for sensitive people. It's just the plain truth. The truth will set you free.

Fine. If you are so concerned, move back to Winnipeg, run for mayor and make rapid transit (specifically LRT) a priority. That is IF you are so concerned; put your money where your mouth is. However, your mere insults of Winnipeg, calling it a "back road town" tells me you are just here to stir the pot in a negative way.

[headhorse]

I think people need to be more vocal about the need for rapid transit. Write to your MP, MLA, councillor, mayor. Get involved with people trying to make it a reality in the city (Rapid Transit Coalition). If enough people demand it, it will become a priority.

[h0twired]

Edmonton was far smaller than 1.1 million when construction started. At the time I wouldn't be surprised if Winnipeg was the larger city.

However Winnipeg doesn't have billions of dollars coming in from oil and gas revenues.

A couple of years ago Calgary and Edmonton split over $2 billion for transportation infrastructure from the province of Alberta.

[UPP]

I think people are forgetting that much of the rapid transit in Canada has been developed when cities hosted major international events. Edmonton's origina LRT came when it hosted the Commonwealth Games, Vancouver's for Expo and now the improvements through the Olympics, Calgary's came through the 88 Olympics and Montreal's Metro was developed largely from hosting Expo 67 and then the 76 Olympics.

Winnipeg is too small to warrant mega federal spending on LRT unless it hosted a world class event similar to an olympics or world's fair.

[MalcolmTucker]

However Winnipeg doesn't have billions of dollars coming in from oil and gas revenues.

A couple of years ago Calgary and Edmonton split over $2 billion for transportation infrastructure from the province of Alberta.
And zero of those dollars have been allocated because the price of oil and gas dropped. And it wasn't over 2 billion, the entire province carved up exactly 2 billion, with the large regions spliting $1.6 billion of that.

I think people are forgetting that much of the rapid transit in Canada has been developed when cities hosted major international events. Edmonton's origina LRT came when it hosted the Commonwealth Games, Vancouver's for Expo and now the improvements through the Olympics, Calgary's came through the 88 Olympics and Montreal's Metro was developed largely from hosting Expo 67 and then the 76 Olympics.

Winnipeg is too small to warrant mega federal spending on LRT unless it hosted a world class event similar to an olympics or world's fair.

None of these transit projects ever had over and above normal federal government support for the time. You misplace a physcological advantage for a financial one.

Calgary paid for the LRT out of debt. As did Edmonton. Montreal was solely a provincial/municipal project. Even the Canada Line was just a confluence of factors, the most important of which was a deadline which forced people to make imperfect decisions, instead of delaying for more study.

4 new rail systems are being built in the country today, and none have a special event underpinning them. The Ottawa LRT, Hurontario LRT (Mississauga), the Hamilton B-Line LRT, and the Kitchener/Waterloo LRT have all come forward because local politicians decided it was the way to go.

Have a vision that fits your city, and money will come - you just have to realize that the money comes with though choices, it isn't an 'in addition' type project. Likely taxes would have to go up, and other infrastructure would have to be delayed, but if you aren't willing to do that, is the project really that important?

[CoR East]

4 new rail systems are being built in the country today, and none have a special event underpinning them. The Ottawa LRT, Hurontario LRT (Mississauga), the Hamilton B-Line LRT, and the Kitchener/Waterloo LRT have all come forward because local politicians decided it was the way to go.



You are forgetting the Eglington Crosstown LRT, and the Spadina subway extension (both toronto):)

[MalcolmTucker]

You are forgetting the Eglington Crosstown LRT, and the Spadina subway extension (both toronto):)
I wouldn't count those as new, if you include those you would have to include expansion projects in Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton and I believe Montreal (but don't quote me on the last one).

[roccerfeller]

Have a vision that fits your city, and money will come - you just have to realize that the money comes with though choices, it isn't an 'in addition' type project. Likely taxes would have to go up, and other infrastructure would have to be delayed, but if you aren't willing to do that, is the project really that important?

Very well said, and good point..."where there is a will, there is a way"

Truth is, Sammy isn't as on "point" with RT as we all hoped he would be, and assured us he would be, during elections.

Lots of stuff is happening in Winnipeg right now, but sadly RT is not the priority it should be or should have.

I certainly agree with the notion of "the money will come" - its just a matter of finding a way to support the will.

I don't care if its LRT or BRT, my only issue with BRT (which in many ways makes more sense for Winnipeg's layout) is that it will eventually end up neglecting "rapid transit specific" routes, and instead rely too much on just using the corridors as supplemental to current bus routes.

If you go with RT, you need something that is independent to be most effective.

Luckily, the current corridor (and I assume all future potential BRT corridors) are designed to be upgraded to LRT if need be, and I'm pretty sure the infrastructure is set up as such that if something such as an underground tunnel or overpass needed to be built, it could b accommodated in the future.

Best would be as suggested by posters earlier in the thread; use LRT for the main line, and BRT for supplemental lines

[Kinguni]

Truth is, Sammy isn't as on "point" with RT as we all hoped he would be, and assured us he would be, during elections.


Sam Katz was first elected on a promise to kill rapid transit. There was no hope he was going to be anything transit.

[roccerfeller]

Sam Katz was first elected on a promise to kill rapid transit. There was no hope he was going to be anything transit.

Ah yes, good call.

I forgot - I was referring to the recent election in October where he said it was important (LRT) but that's what I mean

I even completely forgot he axed Glen Murray's plan.

I wasn't as old back then so I don't remember what the fuss was about...but

He was recently quoted in the U of W paper as to his previous plan and It would have been interesting how much would have been done by now

[armorand93]

We should send him letters, asking for Rapid Transit. Him, our MLA's and our MP's

[Authentic_City]

We should send him letters, asking for Rapid Transit. Him, our MLA's and our MP's

If rapid transit truly is our priority, the only 'letter' we should be writing is a giant "X" on a ballot for a mayor, city councilor, or MLA that has a proven track record of supporting transit and RT in particular.

When I moved back to Winnipeg in 2003, Mayor Murray had just announced the plan for the first phase of BRT and had secured funding for the project. I was excited that we were finally on our way. However, the first thing Katz did after election was kill the project. Then he spent a bunch of money 'studying' the issue. After several years, Katz re-started the same BRT project proposed by Murray, but balked when it came time to start the second phase, even though the Feds were offering money to get it done.

Katz has never shown a commitment to RT. Neither has the majority of city councilors. Letter writing makes no difference. Voting for a candidate with some vision for the city is the only way to get it done.

[armorand93]

If rapid transit truly is our priority, the only 'letter' we should be writing is a giant "X" on a ballot for a mayor, city councilor, or MLA that has a proven track record of supporting transit and RT in particular.

When I moved back to Winnipeg in 2003, Mayor Murray had just announced the plan for the first phase of BRT and had secured funding for the project. I was excited that we were finally on our way. However, the first thing Katz did after election was kill the project. Then he spent a bunch of money 'studying' the issue. After several years, Katz re-started the same BRT project proposed by Murray, but balked when it came time to start the second phase, even though the Feds were offering money to get it done.

Katz has never shown a commitment to RT. Neither has the majority of city councilors. Letter writing makes no difference. Voting for a candidate with some vision for the city is the only way to get it done.

I would've voted for Judy, but i'm still not 18 yet. Wonder if theres such a thing as early elections in municipal politics

[Jets4Life]

Whatever her position on rapid transit was, Judy W-L would not have made a good mayor. The 2010 Civic Election was a dud, as there were simply no candidates voting for. Glen Murray had great vision for the city, but his head got too big, and he ended up leaving when that didn't work for him.

[Jets4Life]

Bdog, your beginning to see the light, money spent fixing pot holes, curbs and sidewalks is money well spent! No tax dollars for culture or the arts!;)


I agree.

It's a shame that Winnipeg has some of it's priorities so mixed up. On the bright side, I really am looking forward to the Union Bank tower being completed. It will be nice to see the end result of the avenue as well.

[The Jabroni]

EDIT

(wrong place for discussion of what was previously in this post)

[armorand93]

How much does it cost to re-build an D700, D800 or D40?

[jimj_wpg]

Sam Katz was first elected on a promise to kill rapid transit. There was no hope he was going to be anything transit.

Rewrite...

Sam Katz was first elected on a promise to kill BRT. There was no hope he was going to be anything transit.

[rypinion]

Express bus corridors increasingly popular transit option

JONATHAN YAZER
Published Sunday, May. 22, 2011 9:49PM EDT

Fast, comfortable and reliable are not normally words that spring to mind when people think of bus transit.

But as the populations of cash-strapped North American cities continue to grow, express buses that travel on dedicated lanes are becoming an increasingly popular alternative to pricier transit options, such as light rail and subways...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/express-bus-corridors-increasingly-popular-transit-option/article2031689/singlepage/#articlecontent

[trebor204]

The Busway is now scheduled for April 2012.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/busway-set-to-roll-next-april-122490598.html

[jimj_wpg]

I think people are forgetting that much of the rapid transit in Canada has been developed when cities hosted major international events. Edmonton's origina LRT came when it hosted the Commonwealth Games, Vancouver's for Expo and now the improvements through the Olympics, Calgary's came through the 88 Olympics and Montreal's Metro was developed largely from hosting Expo 67 and then the 76 Olympics.

Winnipeg is too small to warrant mega federal spending on LRT unless it hosted a world class event similar to an olympics or world's fair.

We've had two major sporting events in the past 44 years...

1967 PanAm Games
1999 PanAm Games

[Kinguni]

The Busway is now scheduled for April 2012.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/busway-set-to-roll-next-april-122490598.html

Funny, they say it's due to be completed on time but the opening will be 5 months late. Just as well. Don't want to be changing around a whole pile of university routes mid-term.