[armorand93]

The 600? series buses are on the road. Rode #601 (62 Richmond) tonite.
It had NO RT Wrap on the buses.
The only difference I notice was with the exit, you now have press a bar, instead of touching the tape.

Question: What's it weirdest thing you seen someone get on (or try to get on) the bus with?

- I saw someone try to get a XMAS Tree on the bus. (The driver refused)
- Someone was in the process of moving. and was asking the driver if it was OK to bring in Mini-Fridge (he didn't have it with him) on board the bus. He had a two-wheel dolly with him at the time. That was time when most of buses were hi-floored. The driver said is was probably unlikely.
- A few weeks ago I saw two people waiting at a bus stop with 50+ inch flat screen TV. I didn't have time to see them get on a bus.

- 601/602 at FRG since xmas, active as of wednesday for the first time

- http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/381649_291279430908457_100000792081288_737405_606966164_n.jpg

- ^ Something like this? ^

[J-MAN]

I don't know why but I've seen people struggle to open the back bus doors. It's really not that hard people you just press the yellow tape with your finger!

[cheswick]

I don't know why but I've seen people struggle to open the back bus doors. It's really not that hard people you just press the yellow tape with your finger!

I've seen people not know how to use the old school back doors at had the swinging gate you pushed as you walked down the steps. On a couple of occasions I've seen someone go arou d the gate and just push the doors open

[Only The Lonely..]

At least we're getting an bus-way. Better than nothing

'Better than nothing' and settling for second best is the story of Winnipeg.

[J-MAN]

'Better than nothing' and settling for second best is the story of Winnipeg.

Give me some examples. The mentality of Winnipeg is just god awful.

[vid]

I saw someone on the bus with a minifridge today! Talk about coincidence.

[roccerfeller]

That's like knowing there is a better horse and buggy but we'll just stick with our ox cart but we will build a dedicated road for it.
Winnipeg deserves better, in my opinion brt is not even a close second to lrt.

City council has no passion or vision to lead Winnipeg into tomorrow.

My Opinion Only.

but that's the thing. Its just not feasible financially for the city to do. There isn't a lot of Oil money here in Manitoba after all.

Pretty much everyone in the Manitoba board and every Winnipegger would rather see LRT could we afford it. Everyone in the city would love to see it, could we afford it.

But when it boils down to: Okay, we cannot afford LRT....do we go for RT or NO RT?

We need RT, so we should go for it... - thus the decision to go for BRT is made.

Its better than no RT, and the road ways are designed to accommodate an upgrade to LRT should that happen.



I agree - LRT makes the most sense and is the "best" - for one thing, its renewable energy and Manitoba is so proud of its electricity, that LRT is a perfect fit.

But when, for instance, one leg of LRT is 1 billion dollars versus one leg of BRT is 200 million dollars, and we only have 100 million dollars to spend, what makes more sense?

Put yourself in a little debt, or a lot of debt? given that you need RT....



http://transportation.speakupwinnipeg.com/files/2011/11/2011-11-01-TTRWinnipegTMP-Final-Report.pdf


that shows what direction we'd like to go in. We'd like LRT. We simply cannot afford it. Its sucks, but if you know a way I'm all ears. Cause I'd love to go to city council with that. Everyone in Winnipeg pretty much wants LRT....its not like we're striving for a BRT system; we just can't afford anything else.


The time where we could have is long gone.

[Andy6]

I don't really see how an LRT is that much better than a bus on a free-flow busway. In fact, I'd say just the reverse. In addition to a large difference in cost, there are major advantages to the bus -- less need for time-consuming transfers is huge, especially in Winnipeg where you're going to have to convince people to choose transit over private-car commutes that are, by other cities' standards, laughably short and simple. Another advantage to BRT is the fact that the 'cars' can be used for other things when they're not needed by the RT system. Also, a broken-down bus on the busway in January is going to be far less of a problem than a broken-down trolley.

[MalcolmTucker]

If the busway is operated with similar elements as an LRT, offboard fare payment, all door boarding, as close to level boarding as possible, then it doesn't matter nearly as much. However, many of these important elements seem to get left out in most BRT systems in the developed world.

If the capacity is going to be high enough with BRT, and the system won't be bogged down by poor route network design (keeping all the old express buses in place but running on the busway) BRT can be the way to go. To figure out which is better from the cost perspective needs to look at full lifecycle costs, not just upfront costs. I have to imagine the city hasn't commissioned an indepth study looking into this as it would be expensive and likely would be preceeded by a capital cost study that would give council sticker shock.

Sure LRT might need a new maintenance centre, but will using BRT speed up bus fleet growth requiring a new bus maintenance centre sooner? Will the buses with shorter replacement cycles end up costing more than similar capacity LRVs? (Ottawa's buses have big problems with life cycles being even shorter than normal buses since they operate at high speed so much of the time). Will diesel be more expensive than electricity, and will the lower number of drivers for LRT make up for the higher capital cost?

[camzmac]

CBC television ran a news segment about the RT corridor. There are some clips of buses being driven on the transitway.

Title: Rapid Transit Gears Up
Author: CBC Television
Date: January 9th, 2012
http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/News/Canada/Manitoba/1304130959/ID=2185537626

[armorand93]

Seems they are on an advertisement blitz.

140 - 11
151 - 11
156 - 24
158 - 11

All today!

Proof:

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/396080_311635322206201_100000792081288_795580_50649864_n.jpg

[trebor204]

The 600 series buses, have a new style of exit bars (along the sides, I wasn't really paying attenation)

I saw about 3 RT buses in about 1 minute this morning.
The 700 series buses (no top hump) now a RT wrap

I notice along RT corridor along Donald, they have speed signs up (30 km/h ahead) , along with some markers (location/millage markers ?)

[armorand93]

The 600 series buses, have a new style of exit bars (along the sides, I wasn't really paying attenation)

I saw about 3 RT buses in about 1 minute this morning.
The 700 series buses (no top hump) now a RT wrap

I notice along RT corridor along Donald, they have speed signs up (30 km/h ahead) , along with some markers (location/millage markers ?)

Interesting, guess I should check it out tomorrow.

Which in the 700 series?

Harkness I presume?

[jmt18325]

So, has anyone been hearing any rumors regarding phase II of BRT?

[Kinguni]

The 600? series buses are on the road. Rode #601 (62 Richmond) tonite.
It had NO RT Wrap on the buses.


They won't get RT wraps.

[J-MAN]

I found this interesting:

Slightly more voters believe bus rapid transit is a better transportation option for Winnipeg than light-rail transit, according to a Free Press/CBC News poll.

source: http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/bus-rapid-transit-has-edge-in-poll-105418328.html

[Bdog]

So, has anyone been hearing any rumors regarding phase II of BRT?

Yeah! From what I've heard, the mayor wants it to be LRT...;)

[trueviking]

i wish they would at least buy rapid transit looking busses....putting a logo on a normal bus is lame.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_xec1BqwW1P8/TU1sKUmUycI/AAAAAAAAAKw/GqjzylPG95Q/s1600/wright_streetcar_brt_red.jpg

[armorand93]

i wish they would at least buy rapid transit looking busses....putting a logo on a normal bus is lame.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_xec1BqwW1P8/TU1sKUmUycI/AAAAAAAAAKw/GqjzylPG95Q/s1600/wright_streetcar_brt_red.jpg

:yuck: IMO, I'd rather see an NFI or this, even though WT wants an all-NFI fleet:

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5267/5691078347_64df46b08c_z.jpg

NovaBus LFS Artic. Would look AMAZING in RT livery

[h0twired]

i wish they would at least buy rapid transit looking busses....putting a logo on a normal bus is lame.

That would require them buying from someone other than New Flyer.

This city is far too loyal to local business.

[chrisallard5454]

My dad works for Newflyer, he said the company is killing themselves with the New line of Buses. He said that they're crap. Take that for what you will, that is all I know about them. He said also they lost a bunch of contracts, but I think that was more economy than bus quality.

[MalcolmTucker]

My dad works for Newflyer, he said the company is killing themselves with the New line of Buses. He said that they're crap. Take that for what you will, that is all I know about them. He said also they lost a bunch of contracts, but I think that was more economy than bus quality.
Calgary switched to Nova Bus, at least for the 40 footers.

[armorand93]

My dad works for Newflyer, he said the company is killing themselves with the New line of Buses. He said that they're crap. Take that for what you will, that is all I know about them. He said also they lost a bunch of contracts, but I think that was more economy than bus quality.

Xcelisors?

[chrisallard5454]

Yes. That sounds right.

[The Jabroni]

Sounds like the Xcelsiors are heading into the same direction as the Inveros.

[vid]

NovaBuses are really nice these days. The next generation of regular, 40 foot Novabuses will have interiors built essentially to BRT specs, in terms of aesthetics. It's very exciting. They no longer spontaneously combust, either! :)

Still, cruising down the highway in a 1994 D40LF with all the windows open is a pretty awesome experience that Nova can't duplicate.

[pollswpg]

that shows what direction we'd like to go in. We'd like LRT. We simply cannot afford it. Its sucks, but if you know a way I'm all ears. Cause I'd love to go to city council with that. Everyone in Winnipeg pretty much wants LRT....its not like we're striving for a BRT system; we just can't afford anything else.


The time where we could have is long gone.

Exactly, thank you. I would love nothing more than to have LRT, but it's not in the stars for us right now.

BRT is a step in the right direction for us though.

[armorand93]

Sounds like the Xcelsiors are heading into the same direction as the Inveros.

Ugh, they should honestly stick with D40LFRs and all derivatives...

[c vist]

a few shots from last week:

test bus running on line filled with transit drivers
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/cvist/zbusonline.jpg

exterior
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/cvist/zexterior.jpg

interior
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/cvist/zinterior.jpg

[armorand93]

a few shots from last week:

test bus running on line filled with transit drivers
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/cvist/zbusonline.jpg

exterior
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/cvist/zexterior.jpg

interior
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/cvist/zinterior.jpg

Do you work on-site?

[c vist]

Do you work on-site?

Nope

[armorand93]

Nope

So they just let you in? Haha thought of going up there, but iunno if I'd get the cops coming or kicked out

[h0twired]

So they just let you in? Haha thought of going up there, but iunno if I'd get the cops coming or kicked out

Just because he doesn't work on site doesn't mean he isn't directly involved with the project.

[rypinion]

Just because he doesn't work on site doesn't mean he isn't directly involved with the project.

Sounds like armorand93 needs to pay a bit more attention. ;-)

[pollswpg]

So they just let you in? Haha thought of going up there, but iunno if I'd get the cops coming or kicked out

Look back through the thread and follow the clues, you'll figure it out. :p

C vist: Looking really good...I saw the illuminated (and I think covered too?) walkway last night on the west side of Osborne. Looks absolutely great.

[armorand93]

.........

Got an picture of 602s back door:

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/404366_312735678762832_100000792081288_797899_560569203_n.jpg

Yellow as usual, and ALOT more effective. Skinnier than the 991-993 or CT bars.

[J-MAN]

:previous:I now figured out you need to take your gloves off when trying to open those yellow button bus back doors.

[armorand93]

:previous:I now figured out you need to take your gloves off when trying to open those yellow button bus back doors.

Heat sensors!

[pollswpg]

Heat sensors!

Are they actually heat sensors? That seems a little silly for a city where people where gloves a good chunk out of the year.

[armorand93]

Are they actually heat sensors? That seems a little silly for a city where people where gloves a good chunk out of the year.

Heat sensors would explain why no one can get out the back doors.

[h0twired]

Heat sensors!

There are no heat sensors.

The door openers that look like a piece of yellow tape have MOTION sensors above the tape however they aren't active until the green light comes on.

So you have to move AFTER the light comes on otherwise it wont detect your motion regardless of how hard you push on the door.

The ones pictured above are pressure sensors.

[armorand93]

There are no heat sensors.

The door openers that look like a piece of yellow tape have MOTION sensors above the tape however they aren't active until the green light comes on.

So you have to move AFTER the light comes on otherwise it wont detect your motion regardless of how hard you push on the door.

The ones pictured above are pressure sensors.

Interesting. And I know what the bar one's for...

[h0twired]

Interesting. And I know what the bar one's for...

Look for the white circles above the yellow tape pointed at the floor.

You don't even have to touch the tape. Just wave your hand in its path of vision.

[rypinion]

Look for the white circles above the yellow tape pointed at the floor.

You don't even have to touch the tape. Just wave your hand in its path of vision.

Yep. But everyone gets screwed up by the light. The bus stops but the light hasn't turned on yet and people start freaking out cause the door won't open. Then they start pushing and shaking and try to force the doors open and that motion (after the light has turned on) opens the doors.

[chrisallard5454]

Isn't there usually a sticker that says: wave hand in front of door.

[chrisallard5454]

When light turns on.

[vid]

Our new pedestrian crossing buttons are motion sensors. To accommodate blind people, since you simply touch an object that doesn't move, it beeps. For deaf people, there is a little light that blinks when it is activated.

Somehow, this was considered better than an actual button. :shrug:

[Kinguni]

Are they actually heat sensors? That seems a little silly for a city where people where gloves a good chunk out of the year.

The sensors are infrared, so often if you have mitts on it won't detect your hand's presence there.

[h0twired]

The sensors are infrared, so often if you have mitts on it won't detect your hand's presence there.

I open it every day with my gloves on.

Infrared sensors still require motion to activate the door.

Otherwise how would the door open if it was 37C outside?

[J-MAN]

Well I can't explain it. Usually I have no problem opening the buses doors, it's just when I had my gloves that one time I couldn't open the buses doors.:shrug:

[Auror]

Our new pedestrian crossing buttons are motion sensors. To accommodate blind people, since you simply touch an object that doesn't move, it beeps. For deaf people, there is a little light that blinks when it is activated.

Somehow, this was considered better than an actual button. :shrug:

Oh really? I'm Deaf myself. I haven't seen that.

[chrisallard5454]

Oh really? I'm Deaf myself. I haven't seen that.

Vid is from T-bay

[armorand93]

Oh really? I'm Deaf myself. I haven't seen that.

Are you the same Auror that recently joined CPTDB? :P

[Auror]

Yes lol

[armorand93]

Yes lol

Awesome! Now I can reply to posts and nt have them go empty :P

[Auror]

lol

[Auror]

Vid is from T-bay

The what?

[SKYSTHELIMIT]

The what?

Thunder Bay

[armorand93]

800-series D40s left to my knowledge: 812, 852, 858, 863

[h0twired]

Well I can't explain it. Usually I have no problem opening the buses doors, it's just when I had my gloves that one time I couldn't open the buses doors.:shrug:

It is probably because you have your hands in front of the sensors prior to the light coming on. Then when the light comes on you aren't moving enough to create a differential great enough to trigger the motion sensors.

Those that frustratingly push on the non-opening doors are also not moving enough compared to the sensors because the sensors move in sync with the door movement.

[wpgcityone]

The exit door sensors aren't infrared, they are CLASS (contact less acoustic sensor system). There is a sensor on each door as well as a third one on the mechanism plate above the door. The ultrasound pulses are not enabled until the green light comes on.

[wpgcityone]

Sounds like the Xcelsiors are heading into the same direction as the Inveros.

Xcelsior >>> Invero

It takes a while for everyone to figure out that Xcelsiors go together a bit differently than the LF/LFRs.

[armorand93]

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 19

You must come by often. :P

[cheswick]

Heat sensors would explain why no one can get out the back doors.

I find people have far more trouble figuring out how to exit on the buses with the yellow strip you have to press than on the ones with the tape that you just touch or activate by moving or whatever. That and half the people dont keep pressing the strip so it closes on someone.

[pollswpg]

I find people have far more trouble figuring out how to exit on the buses with the yellow strip you have to press than on the ones with the tape that you just touch or activate by moving or whatever. That and half the people dont keep pressing the strip so it closes on someone.

Yeah...that's why I almost like the old system more. The one in the high floor buses with the swinging gate. People seemed a little more patient with that one too and didn't immediately resort to yelling "BACK DOOR, PLEASE" across the bus to the driver lol.

[armorand93]

Yeah...that's why I almost like the old system more. The one in the high floor buses with the swinging gate. People seemed a little more patient with that one too and didn't immediately resort to yelling "BACK DOOR, PLEASE" across the bus to the driver lol.

I love the gate! After 2014, we won't be seeing that one again :(

[alittle1]

A what point does Wpg's Transit become r a p i d ?

[The Jabroni]

If only they had a voice system that tells you what to do when to exit, and when you want to exit, like they do in the UK. Definitely supplemental to the current voice that does the stops. It would be great for the visually impaired who takes the bus, and would help them even more.

I'm sure that idea has been tossed around for a while.

[J-MAN]

:previous:
I never thought of that but yeah that idea would be great for the visually impaired!

[h0twired]

If only they had a voice system that tells you what to do when to exit, and when you want to exit, like they do in the UK. Definitely supplemental to the current voice that does the stops. It would be great for the visually impaired who takes the bus, and would help them even more.

I'm sure that idea has been tossed around for a while.

Visually impaired people are usually assisted by the driver.

There are a couple of blind women that are on my buses regularly. They sit in the front seats and the driver will let them know of their stop if there is no vocal notification.

[wpgcityone]

You must come by often. :P

I read here almost everyday :)

[armorand93]

I read here almost everyday :)

Ah lol, ok. Just looking at the 20 posts, and I'm like, whoa!

[rypinion]

Ah lol, ok. Just looking at the 20 posts, and I'm like, whoa!

Some people like contributing only when they have something to contribute.

[J-MAN]

There's lots of good Rapid Transit related pics on the City of Winnipeg website. The only problem is there's none more recent then 2010.

http://winnipegtransit.com/assets/553/IMG_1269_70_71_copy.jpg

[armorand93]

There's lots of good Rapid Transit related pics on the City of Winnipeg website. The only problem is there's none more recent then 2010.



The website lists D40LFs and D40i as their NEWEST. Thats how behind they are :P

Probably can still find 1999/2000 powerpoints or .pdf's on there :P

[Boreal]

That stretch of riverfront in that image being consumed by rail and road is tragic.

[h0twired]

That stretch of riverfront in that image being consumed by rail and road is tragic.

I would rather it have a rail line and bike path next to it than a line of big houses with no public access.

[J-MAN]

:previous:

Yup that bike path used to take me to downtown from my old suburbs.

[armorand93]

:previous:

Yup that bike path used to take me to downtown from my old suburbs.

Too bad theres no ramp from the bike trail, across the tracks to the SWRTC side around that area. That'd be awesome! And I'd have an higher point for Winnipeg pics, as we all would :)

[vid]

Riparian entertainments. http://www.miltonkeynesaware.co.cc/Smileys/yarex2/tea.gif

There is no need to line the entire waterfront with buildings.

[Boreal]

Riparian entertainments. http://www.miltonkeynesaware.co.cc/Smileys/yarex2/tea.gif

There is no need to line the entire waterfront with buildings.

While I can certainly toast to that, I am also no big fan of running the tracks right along it.

It doesn't change my life any, it just strikes me as strange, given the area. Could have been more of a residential link between Osborne village-ish and downtown. I'm no city planner, but the rails there just strike me as being out of place. (I'm not professing to move them... it is what it is)

[vid]

Out of place? :haha: Where else are they going to go?

Thunder Bay is entirely cut off from its river by railways. You guys are lucky to have as much access to the river as you do.

[armorand93]

Out of place? :haha: Where else are they going to go?

Thunder Bay is entirely cut off from its river by railways. You guys are lucky to have as much access to the river as you do.

Could always build it elevated along Pembina :haha:

[pollswpg]

I can honestly say I never knew that bike path was there. Is it still there/operational?

[rypinion]

I can honestly say I never knew that bike path was there. Is it still there/operational?

Yes, and very recently upgraded.

http://www.winnipegtrails.ca/trails-maps/south-winnipeg-parkway/

[jimj_wpg]

A what point does Wpg's Transit become r a p i d ?

:haha::haha::haha::haha::haha:

[jimj_wpg]

If only they had a voice system that tells you what to do when to exit, and when you want to exit, like they do in the UK. Definitely supplemental to the current voice that does the stops. It would be great for the visually impaired who takes the bus, and would help them even more.

I'm sure that idea has been tossed around for a while.

How about voice command directly to the bus itself:

"Hey you MOFO bus... Let me the F**K OUT!"

[jimj_wpg]

'Better than nothing' and settling for second best is the story of Winnipeg.

:tup:

[jimj_wpg]

Give me some examples. The mentality of Winnipeg is just god awful.

Go Winnipeg Jets!

:notacrook: :rolleyes:

[jimj_wpg]

but that's the thing. Its just not feasible financially for the city to do. There isn't a lot of Oil money here in Manitoba after all.

Pretty much everyone in the Manitoba board and every Winnipegger would rather see LRT could we afford it. Everyone in the city would love to see it, could we afford it.

But when it boils down to: Okay, we cannot afford LRT....do we go for RT or NO RT?

We need RT, so we should go for it... - thus the decision to go for BRT is made.

You're backwards.

[jimj_wpg]

i wish they would at least buy rapid transit looking busses....putting a logo on a normal bus is lame.



I wish WT would at least number the "RT" buses starting at 1001 and going up...But I guess where Bill Menzies comes from (Brandon MB) they don't really set their sights very high.

So nothing is really special about this "rapid transit" to make it different.

FAIL!

[jimj_wpg]

It is supposed to be open for training within a week or two. They will train for approximately four months and open as Kinguni said - Apr 8th. They also need to work through the snow clearing techniques for this winter.

I'm not "in" to numerology, but isn't it a coincidence (or not) that if you add up the numbers of the opening date of your "rapid transit" that it adds up...

April (4th month) + 8 (day) = 2012

I've always suspected Menzoid to be a Freemason.

[jimj_wpg]

Sure LRT might need a new maintenance centre, but will using BRT speed up bus fleet growth requiring a new bus maintenance centre sooner? Will the buses with shorter replacement cycles end up costing more than similar capacity LRVs? (Ottawa's buses have big problems with life cycles being even shorter than normal buses since they operate at high speed so much of the time). Will diesel be more expensive than electricity, and will the lower number of drivers for LRT make up for the higher capital cost?

Good point.

[armorand93]

I wish WT would at least number the "RT" buses starting at 1001 and going up...But I guess where Bill Menzies comes from (Brandon MB) they don't really set their sights very high.

So nothing is really special about this "rapid transit" to make it different.

FAIL!

And maybe just like Alberta, it will eventually go to 2000, 3000, 4000. "Hey guys, 641-669 is free!" 'PFT, lets go with 7198-7301...'

Tracking would be an pain in the ass! If we get dedicated LRT, sure make it 1000. But unless we have 1000 buses, just recycle numbers and keep it at 3 digits

[chrisallard5454]

How large is Winnipeg's fleet total?

[armorand93]

How large is Winnipeg's fleet total?

550 buses I believe? Roughly 300 D40LFs, 160 D40LFRS, 58 D40s (my favorite), 30ish Classics, 10 D40i and 33 D30LFs

Reference Point: http://cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php?title=Winnipeg_Transit

[vid]

At work, we have one number on one side of the vehicle and another on the other side, so the fleet looks twice as large as it really is. :)

[Auror]

I thought it was 535 busses. I guess it went up.

When driving home from Polo Park, I decided to take a detour and drive by Osborne Station, going under the underpass and U turn. Then drive by Harkness on the way home. Those stations look really nice. Makes RT exciting. Too bad I don`t live on Pembina and doubt there ever will be a route that I would take that would use it. (my home uses route 19).

[armorand93]

I thought it was 535 busses. I guess it went up.

When driving home from Polo Park, I decided to take a detour and drive by Osborne Station, going under the underpass and U turn. Then drive by Harkness on the way home. Those stations look really nice. Makes RT exciting. Too bad I don`t live on Pembina and doubt there ever will be a route that I would take that would use it. (my home uses route 19).

Someone on CPTDB said 140-169 or 601-640 was intended for fleet expansion, even if it was an 10-20 bus expansion

[The Jabroni]

Yeah, I suspect the amount of buses has increased a bit. They've recycled series numbers, for example the series 1xx and 6xx, a lot quicker in the last 3 years than they have in the last 15. I won't be surprised that they will start with the series 300-330, once those MCI buses are gone.