[vid]

If you have never taken the bus, you ask the driver! It's their job to answer your questions. ;) Having them call out every single stop is unnecessary and would be distracting. Here you can just ask and they'll let you know when the stop is coming up.

[spiritedenergy]

Honestly, why are they doing this ? I've heard the reasoning but in my opinion , drivers should be concentrating on the road not street names. I think the transit drivers are right. Try it yourselves...just as an exercise in concentration, go for a drive and call out every street name as you pass it. It's not as easy as it seems.

That aside, yeah, for people who request a specific stop it's not much to ask. For every stop though, it's kind of pointless. Everybody but the blind already know where their stop is.

what is if someone is very shy? Or a child? Or a person that cannot talk? I also think it's annoying to do and to listen to, but they do not have any reason to protest, they can just try and if they can't, just indicate the main stops. They really look like spoiled brats... have you ever waited 10 minutes for them to take their coffee? Can't just they bring it from home?

[1ajs]

If you have never taken the bus, you ask the driver! It's their job to answer your questions. ;) Having them call out every single stop is unnecessary and would be distracting. Here you can just ask and they'll let you know when the stop is coming up.
in winnipeg yea can do that but don't try that in minneapolis... they will toss you off not supost to speak to the driver period :S

[1ajs]

what is if someone is very shy? Or a child? Or a person that cannot talk? I also think it's annoying to do and to listen to, but they do not have any reason to protest, they can just try and if they can't, just indicate the main stops. They really look like spoiled brats... have you ever waited 10 minutes for them to take their coffee? Can't just they bring it from home?

they get stop points for timing and usly they are at points were they can grab a snack or somthing...

[Spocket]

what is if someone is very shy? Or a child? Or a person that cannot talk? I also think it's annoying to do and to listen to, but they do not have any reason to protest, they can just try and if they can't, just indicate the main stops. They really look like spoiled brats... have you ever waited 10 minutes for them to take their coffee? Can't just they bring it from home?

How shy can somebody possibly be that they can't ask the driver to let them know when they reach a specific stop ? That's an issue no bus driver can remedy.

Children ? Who's letting their toddlers ride the bus alone ?

Can't talk ? They don't need to talk to be able to read.

As I said, take a drive and call out every street name as you pass it. Seriously, just try it. I have. I'm telling you that the safety of the passengers supercedes their desire to hear their stop called out.
Think of it this way : ever notice how people talking on their cell phones while driving tend to drive like morons ? Well, they do that because they can't concentrate on the road properly. Now, if you ask anybody who does this they'll tell you that no, it's all the OTHER people who can't yap on their phone and drive at the same time. Oddly enough, no matter how many people you talk to , they all tell you it's somebody else who's at fault. Either way, there's a reason local governments have banned this practice in many jurisdictions : despite what people think, they aren't very good drivers when they aren't making driving their primary focus. It's a safety issue and there's all the evidence in the world to prove that the bus drivers are right to protest this.

[fengshui]

Edmontonians are smarter than us (or at least, their newly hired Manager of Transportation is, who is quoted below) In December, the city's transportation department shelved a proposed bus rapid transit system, which would have seen high-capacity buses speed along a dedicated roadway. "We're just not going to tear people's houses down to get a couple more minutes on a bus route. That doesn't make any sense", said Boutilier, who argued the proposal would cost hundreds of millions of dollars for property purchases, demolition, construction and new buses. "I don't want to waste staff, time and energy on anything less than the LRT", Boutilier told CBC News.http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2008/01/02/lrt-expand.html

[1ajs]

umm rgalston for mayor?

[1ajs]

Tram
JAN 07 2008 05:40 AM
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A tram or gondola connecting St. Vital to the University of Manitoba would cost anywhere between 3 and 8 million dollars and have only several hundred riders each day, according to a Winnipeg Transit Report .
The study looked at four options, including an ambitious plan to run a tram from St. Vital Center though south St. Vital and across the Red River to the Fletcher Argue building at the University.
St. Norbert City councillor Justin Swandel says it's still less expensive than building a pedestrian bridge over river.
Swandel hopes the city will endorse a plan to study the plan in more detail, especially exploring the tourism aspects of the scheme.

[The Jabroni]

The article was on Monday's edition of the Free Press. Quite interesting, but the corridor from St. Vital Centre to the UofM is quite bold. It will be going over some residential areas and there might be some opposition to that one corridor.

The other 3 are fine from what I see.

[ILYR]

Given all the ideas for rapid transit in Winnipeg I think the tram system would work best. A system where the trams would replace the centre medians of the major Winnipeg routes (Pembina, Main, Portage, and Provencher-Regent), plus at least one existing traffic lane. The amount would depend on the location and route. An example is the system in Geneva, Switzerland. Below are some models of the Geneva system and a typical stop. Also I have added a north-south and east-west routes for Winnipeg passing through portage and main. The system would have right of way and restrict traffic crossing these routes to only major crossings. However, I think that it would be a minimal adjustment for Winnipegers. Also if this city is to truely embrace rapid transit there will have to be a general change in people's philosophy on transportation.

Your thoughts.

http://www.ualberta.ca/~drogge/images/geneva2.jpg
http://www.ualberta.ca/~drogge/images/geneva4.jpg
http://www.ualberta.ca/~drogge/images/geneva5.jpg
http://www.ualberta.ca/~drogge/images/winnipeg_tram.jpg
http://www.ualberta.ca/~drogge/images/winnipeg_downtown_tram.jpg

[Andy6]

Restricting cross-street traffic generates huge opposition in Toronto when these things are proposed here. It would potentially be damaging to the very businesses that are managing to hang on in the downtown area.

I do not see how these trams are going to survive Winnipeg winters or plough through the ice and snow on the streets. If even one of them breaks down, the whole line has to shut down, as happens here with streetcars.

Despite their unsexy image, buses are far better for Winnipeg.

[ILYR]

Restricting cross-street traffic generates huge opposition in Toronto when these things are proposed here. It would potentially be damaging to the very businesses that are managing to hang on in the downtown area.

Questions. Please expand on why they would be damaging to business in the downtown?

I do not see how these trams are going to survive Winnipeg winters or plough through the ice and snow on the streets. If even one of them breaks down, the whole line has to shut down, as happens here with streetcars.

Despite their unsexy image, buses are far better for Winnipeg.

Snow would likely not be a problem. Ice maybe. But I don't have the background to dispute this. This is an engineering problem that I am sure that can be solved. Buses are by no means not effected by snow and ice.

Please expand also why buses are better than trams for Winnipeg (noting any transit system in winnipeg with trams would also make extensive use of buses, plus buses are not unsexy, nor is the sexyness of a transit system relevant)

[Aylmer]

A bus was stuck for over 1 and a half hours because of snow here...

[viperred88]

what about right and left turns for vehicles who want to turn to the crosssing road. do you mean they have to wait for the tram to pass to turn?

I think this would cause a traffic jam thats not needed and especially in winter where its stressfull enough to drive.

WE need a sky train/ subway that don't take away a sidewalk and don't congest raodway. Our rapid transit needs to seperate from all other traffic in order to be justifiably called rapid transit.

Given all the ideas for rapid transit in Winnipeg I think the tram system would work best. A system where the trams would replace the centre medians of the major Winnipeg routes (Pembina, Main, Portage, and Provencher-Regent), plus at least one existing traffic lane. The amount would depend on the location and route. An example is the system in Geneva, Switzerland. Below are some models of the Geneva system and a typical stop. Also I have added a north-south and east-west routes for Winnipeg passing through portage and main. The system would have right of way and restrict traffic crossing these routes to only major crossings. However, I think that it would be a minimal adjustment for Winnipegers. Also if this city is to truely embrace rapid transit there will have to be a general change in people's philosophy on transportation.

Your thoughts.

http://www.ualberta.ca/~drogge/images/geneva2.jpg
http://www.ualberta.ca/~drogge/images/geneva4.jpg
http://www.ualberta.ca/~drogge/images/geneva5.jpg
http://www.ualberta.ca/~drogge/images/winnipeg_tram.jpg
http://www.ualberta.ca/~drogge/images/winnipeg_downtown_tram.jpg

[MooseJets]

U of M gondola plan shelved?
Updated at 9:45 PM


St. Norbert Coun. Justin Swandel's dream of building a cable-car connection between the University of Manitoba and St. Vital has gotten tangled up at City Hall.

Today a pair of deadlocked votes at city council's public works committee left the aerial tramway plan in limbo, as councillors failed to agree on whether Winnipeg Transit should study the idea in greater detail or abandon it altogether.

Late last week, a transit study concluded it could cost as little as $3 million to build a gondola connection over the Red River between the U of M and St. Vital, not including annual operating costs. A pedestrian bridge would likely cost at least $12 million.

Winnipeg Transit did not push the plan, recommending it be "received as information," which is a City Hall euphemism for shelving a report. But Swandel appeared before the public works committee today and pleaded for genuine action.

The St. Norbert councillor convinced committee chair Bill Clement and veteran Mynarski Coun. Harry Lazarenko to ask Winnipeg Transit to conduct a more detailed study.

But Elmwood Coun. Lillian Thomas trashed the idea, insisting the city should not consider a cable-car connection while a bus rapid transit corridor along Pembina Highway remains unbuilt.

Then North Kildonan Coun. Jeff Browaty deemed the transit plan too timid, resulting in a deadlocked vote.

The result means nothing will happen with the cable-car proposal unless Swandel makes another motion at city council.

This afternoon he was considering his options.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/story/4103570p-4701910c.html

[Andy6]

Questions. Please expand on why they would be damaging to business in the downtown?

Because it makes it harder for customers and delivery vehicles to get to the businesses, much as confusing one-way street systems do.

Snow would likely not be a problem. Ice maybe. But I don't have the background to dispute this. This is an engineering problem that I am sure that can be solved. Buses are by no means not effected by snow and ice.

True, but when a bus breaks down you just call in another bus. When a tram breaks down the trams behind it have to stop. And these tram systems are not typically designed for a climate like Winnipeg's, necessitating expensive modifications.

Please expand also why buses are better than trams for Winnipeg (noting any transit system in winnipeg with trams would also make extensive use of buses, plus buses are not unsexy, nor is the sexyness of a transit system relevant)

The sexiness factor is what drives people to want these LRT systems, mostly. They're shiny and sleek and whiz around impressively. It's nice, but the cost is so high that I can't see it being justifiable on the basis of any real practical improvement they make to people's mobility. Buses use existing infrastructure, can go almost anywhere, and can be put wherever the need is at a given time. It's a slam dunk for the bus, in my view.

[ILYR]

what about right and left turns for vehicles who want to turn to the crosssing road. do you mean they have to wait for the tram to pass to turn?

I think this would cause a traffic jam thats not needed and especially in winter where its stressfull enough to drive.

What I mean is for most side streets you would not be able to cross the tran line, only at major intersections can cars cross. In the denser downtown area this would be slightly modified. I would also like to point out that the problem with traffic (and traffic jams) are caused by too many cars to begin with (single occupant vehicles). Hence the reason I mentioned that Winnipegers have to change their view of transportation. People must change their attitude regardless of the rapid transit system.


WE need a sky train/ subway that don't take away a sidewalk and don't congest raodway. Our rapid transit needs to seperate from all other traffic in order to be justifiably called rapid transit.

A system that is 100% independent from our road ways would be optimal, but then there is the question of cost. A system 100% (or even only 50%) above ground or below is likely much more expensive. And as I mentioned you remove the median and one lane, not sidewalk space. The reality of mass/rapid transit is that we have move away from using our cars. If we build a tram, BRT, LRT, or subway and leave the 5 or 6 lanes we have on pembina or portage defeats the whole point of Winnipeg moving towards a more efficent mass/rapid transit system. Even a subway system is pointless if we all continue to drive our cars. We have to consider a realistic, cost effective option. Lastly rapid transit does not have to be separate from all other traffic, as examples of effective trams systems exist all over europe. The problem here as with other western Canadian cities is our addiction to cars.

[ILYR]

Because it makes it harder for customers and delivery vehicles to get to the businesses, much as confusing one-way street systems do..

First, the tram systems that I am thinking of (e.g. Geneva) do not stop pedestrians from crossing. Note also I mention a system where 1 lane and the median is taken out. So that crossing for a pedestrian across 6 lanes of car traffic is likely not any easier than 5 lanes of traffic and a tram line. Also there are numerous places along major routes in winnipeg (e.g. pembina and portage) where there is no access across the major route from side streets. In these case the person must drive 3 or 4 blocks to a major intersection before they can turn the other way. Most people know where these places are and drive accordingly such that the enter a major route where they can turn right or left anyway. Once again I have to use existing tram systems as an example: they do not impact pedestrian or delivery vehicles in places they exist. In many of these cities there are significantly more people and businesses long the tram lines than along any major street in Winnipeg.


True, but when a bus breaks down you just call in another bus. When a tram breaks down the trams behind it have to stop. And these tram systems are not typically designed for a climate like Winnipeg's, necessitating expensive modifications.


Tram lines are set up so that they can cross tracks to get around other trams (or other vehicles stick on the tracks). They can also be towed, just like a bus that breaks down. Trams do exist in cities that have snow and ice. Over all winnipeg does not have that much snow. We have a limited number of major snow falls per year. And when they do happen they effect all transportation.


The sexiness factor is what drives people to want these LRT systems, mostly. They're shiny and sleek and whiz around impressively. It's nice, but the cost is so high that I can't see it being justifiable on the basis of any real practical improvement they make to people's mobility. Buses use existing infrastructure, can go almost anywhere, and can be put wherever the need is at a given time. It's a slam dunk for the bus, in my view.

Any tram system will, as I said before, would still require an extensive bus system, particularly as a feeder system. I will point out that the trams lines that I am think of do take up dedicated lanes and thus can by pass traffic on the road (1 lane and the median). If we had a system where buses had dedicated lanes along there full route this would be very similar to a tram system. Hence, the key here then is a system that removes regular traffic from at two lanes of traffic on major routes (portage, main etc) such that these buses/trams are not obstructed. This is similar to the BRT system in parts of Ottawa, which I also believe is a good option for Winnipeg.

[Spocket]

I have to admit that the tramway idea looked good for a minute there. Ultimately though, Andy made his case rather convincingly. Maybe they'd work in certain, small areas as a tourist attraction of sorts but otherwise, nope, not in Winnipeg.

At this rate, I'd settle for a few community bikes as rapid transit in this city anyway. Looks like it'll be the best thing we'll ever get anyway as long as we have the Mr. Magoos down at city hall running this place.

[Greco Roman]

I have to admit that the tramway idea looked good for a minute there. Ultimately though, Andy made his case rather convincingly. Maybe they'd work in certain, small areas as a tourist attraction of sorts but otherwise, nope, not in Winnipeg.

At this rate, I'd settle for a few community bikes as rapid transit in this city anyway. Looks like it'll be the best thing we'll ever get anyway as long as we have the Mr. Magoos down at city hall running this place.

Yep.

[ILYR]

I have to admit that the tramway idea looked good for a minute there. Ultimately though, Andy made his case rather convincingly. Maybe they'd work in certain, small areas as a tourist attraction of sorts but otherwise, nope, not in Winnipeg.

At this rate, I'd settle for a few community bikes as rapid transit in this city anyway. Looks like it'll be the best thing we'll ever get anyway as long as we have the Mr. Magoos down at city hall running this place.

Why would they only work in small areas as a tourist attraction in Winnipeg, when the work efficiently as major transit networks in cities both larger and small than Winnipeg. I have had the oppertunity to use these systems in mutiple cites and they are very efficient, do not cause problems with respect to people and business, and can be near-zero emmisions (esspecially in Winnipeg where we can make use of hydro and wind as the source of electricity).

[h0twired]

Why would they only work in small areas as a tourist attraction in Winnipeg, when the work efficiently as major transit networks in cities both larger and small than Winnipeg. I have had the oppertunity to use these systems in mutiple cites and they are very efficient, do not cause problems with respect to people and business, and can be near-zero emmisions (esspecially in Winnipeg where we can make use of hydro and wind as the source of electricity).

Most of the cities that use them have hills or cliffs that are much easier to traverse using a tramway.

Winnipeg is just looking for a kitschy way of avoiding just building a bridge.

[Spocket]

Why would they only work in small areas as a tourist attraction in Winnipeg, when the work efficiently as major transit networks in cities both larger and small than Winnipeg. I have had the oppertunity to use these systems in mutiple cites and they are very efficient, do not cause problems with respect to people and business, and can be near-zero emmisions (esspecially in Winnipeg where we can make use of hydro and wind as the source of electricity).

As I said, Andy made his case so check back to see what he said.

You offer some good rebuttals but overall, if we're going to spend that kind of cash, we should get an actual rapid transit system , not just another form of mass transit. I don't see the advantage of trams over buses in a city like Winnipeg. From a cost effectiveness standpoint , it makes no sense to invest in this. That of course begs the question : what is the advantage to European cities in adopting this system.

[ILYR]

Most of the cities that use them have hills or cliffs that are much easier to traverse using a tramway.

Winnipeg is just looking for a kitschy way of avoiding just building a bridge.

I think that you have misunderstood the argument about using a tram system. First of all a tram is a rail system and has nothing to do with a bridge. I assume you are talking about the proposal across the Red river near the UofM using a cable car. Take another look at the photos I posted.

[jimj_wpg]

Why would they only work in small areas as a tourist attraction in Winnipeg, when the work efficiently as major transit networks in cities both larger and small than Winnipeg. I have had the oppertunity to use these systems in mutiple cites and they are very efficient, do not cause problems with respect to people and business, and can be near-zero emmisions (esspecially in Winnipeg where we can make use of hydro and wind as the source of electricity).

Gondolas are most appropriate and most efficient at carrying people from ground level to point on a mountain.

I have to scratch my head at this whole goldola thing for Winnipeg and you especially calling it a form of rapid transit.

What a gondola is, is a very specialized form of transport, meant to carry few people at a time to one specific point... one to one... You cannot have multi-stop stations using gondola technolgy. It just isn't practical.

And yes, I have ridden a gondola before... the one in Vancouver for Grousse mountain, and the one in Banff and/or Jasper Alta. They're cool rides, although a bit scary sometimes as you're climbing several hundred feet above air, with giant rocks below...

And even those cities that do have what are called 'funiculars', they are meant for very hilly terrain, not the kind of flat stuff we have here on the prairies.

[jimj_wpg]

[QUOTE=ILYR;3268890]Given all the ideas for rapid transit in Winnipeg I think the tram system would work best. A system where the trams would replace the centre medians of the major Winnipeg routes (Pembina, Main, Portage, and Provencher-Regent), plus at least one existing traffic lane. The amount would depend on the location and route. An example is the system in Geneva, Switzerland. Below are some models of the Geneva system and a typical stop. Also I have added a north-south and east-west routes for Winnipeg passing through portage and main. The system would have right of way and restrict traffic crossing these routes to only major crossings. However, I think that it would be a minimal adjustment for Winnipegers. Also if this city is to truely embrace rapid transit there will have to be a general change in people's philosophy on transportation.

Your thoughts.

http://www.ualberta.ca/~drogge/images/geneva2.jpg

A smaller version for the secondary streets and the longer one for the regional streets...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5M-lDMTUg5U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5M-lDMTUg5U)

[ILYR]

As I said, Andy made his case so check back to see what he said.

You offer some good rebuttals but overall, if we're going to spend that kind of cash, we should get an actual rapid transit system , not just another form of mass transit. I don't see the advantage of trams over buses in a city like Winnipeg. From a cost effectiveness standpoint , it makes no sense to invest in this. That of course begs the question : what is the advantage to European cities in adopting this system.

And as I said these tram systems are rapid systems in existing cities. They are rapid becaus they have right of way, and have dedicated lines. The difference with a LRT is that the tram systems run along existing streets. These streets are redesigned to have 2 lanes dedicated to the tram system. Without traffic a tram can traverse a city quickly, thus a rapid transit system.

Now it is true you can do a similar thing with buses as they have done in Ottawa. In Ottawa a number of street have become bus only, or parts of streets bus only. Once again a dedicated system for transit to avoid traffic. This was the BRT system that has been proposed for Winnipeg in the past. Suprisingly it has recived much negative response as it is not a true rapid transit system. This is false. If you build a true BRT it is rapid transit.

As I noted in one of my other responses a tram system that uses electricity derived from hydro and wind power makes it more or less polution free. Reduced emmisions in cities across europe is important, it should also be a concern here. Secondly if the system is powered by electricty using the wind (which by the way the C-train in Calgary is technically powered by wind) and hydro fuel costs can be reduced. Also because trams are rail systems having 3 tram cars joined together they can carry significantly more people than a bus, even a articulated bus (which I might also point out have their own problems in snow and ice compared to a regular non-articulating bus). Lastly as a whole europe is ahead of Winnipeg on effective transportation systems, and as someone who has used bus, tram, subway, LRT, BRT, and skytrain systems I can honestly say that if we consider cost, a tram system is a good compromise between a 100% subway system and the existing non-lane dedicated bus system we have now in Winnipeg.

[ILYR]

Gondolas are most appropriate and most efficient at carrying people from ground level to point on a mountain.

I have to scratch my head at this whole goldola thing for Winnipeg and you especially calling it a form of rapid transit.

What a gondola is, is a very specialized form of transport, meant to carry few people at a time to one specific point... one to one... You cannot have multi-stop stations using gondola technolgy. It just isn't practical.

And yes, I have ridden a gondola before... the one in Vancouver for Grousse mountain, and the one in Banff and/or Jasper Alta. They're cool rides, although a bit scary sometimes as you're climbing several hundred feet above air, with giant rocks below...

And even those cities that do have what are called 'funiculars', they are meant for very hilly terrain, not the kind of flat stuff we have here on the prairies.

No to sound negative but I suggest people on this forum actually read peoples posts. A tram (noted by jimj_wpg in the thread about the gondola above the Red by the UofM, but a completely different transit system) system is a rail system similar to LRT, but located on existing streets with dedicated lanes. I never said anything about a cable car or gondala being rapid transit. I am not talking about the proposal across the Red River near the university, that is an entirely different topic.

[Ruckus]

I have to admit that the tramway idea looked good for a minute there. Ultimately though, Andy made his case rather convincingly. Maybe they'd work in certain, small areas as a tourist attraction of sorts but otherwise, nope, not in Winnipeg.

At this rate, I'd settle for a few community bikes as rapid transit in this city anyway. Looks like it'll be the best thing we'll ever get anyway as long as we have the Mr. Magoos down at city hall running this place.

Quincy Magoo is a wealthy, short-statured retiree who gets into a series of sticky situations as a result of his farsightedness, or latent hyperopia, compounded by his stubborn refusal to admit the problem. Affected people (or animals) consequently tend to think that he is a lunatic, rather than just being far-sighted.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/88/MagooAndDog.jpg/180px-MagooAndDog.jpg

Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Magoo)

[vid]

And as we all know, Winnipeg City Council is anything but far sighted. They're lucky if they can plan ahead to next year, even in December!

[ILYR]

Below are some details on the Geneva tram system, specifically cost. The details are older, so one would likely have to add 25% (conservative) to the costs. Note also the cost is in Swiss francs, which have ranged from 0.9 to 1.1 to the Canadian dollar, or in EUROs, which are about 1.4-1.5 Canadian right now. Note the size of the trams, number of passengers, and that they have regenerative braking, making them energy efficient. Lastly another advantage about a tram system is that they are all low floor, usually near grade (similar to kneeling or low floor buses). They work on a system that uses multiple entry and exit points. This allows for quick stops and less congestion in and out of the tram (note each tram holds up to 250 passengers).
"The tram network in Geneva is operated by the Geneva Transport Authority (Transports Publics Genevois - TPG). Its 2002-2003 Master Plan includes several major tram line extensions. These extensions also call for a substantial increase of vehicle stock, which amounts to doubling the number of passenger space provided. In some cases, it was deemed most cost-effective to acquire new vehicles rather than simply adding further carriages onto existing vehicles. In June 2003, Bombardier won the contract to supply 21 trams over an 18-month period beginning the end of 2003/beginning 2004. There is also a further option for 18 more, depending on the progress of works, potentially between 2006 and 2008. The cost for 21 trams is €60 million. Each new, two-directional tram will be 42m long with seven compartments and will be fitted with seven sliding doors on each side and a low floor. The trams will each hold 250 passengers, 75 seated. They will be air conditioned, equipped with energy regenerative braking and will have an electric boarding ramp for wheelchairs and prams. In view of this growing transport network, the TPG will need to adapt some existing equipment and also construct a third maintenance and operations centre."
"Work is currently being undertaken on this line. The existing tram route to Cornavin will be extended by 2.2km to Nations. The connection between Cornavin and place des Nations will be in operation at the end of 2003. This CHF86 million project has been very complex. Streets have had to be rebuilt to make room for the tram reservation and an entirely new tram bridge was built over the Geneva to Lausanne mail railway line after it was discovered that the existing bridge could not withstand the weight of the trams. A new station will be built near this bridge to allow for easy transfer from train to tram."
"The Cornavin - CERN extension, with a first stage of completion at Bouchet and subsequently at Meyrin, should be completed at the earliest in 2006 or 2007. Known as the "tram rapide", most of this 8.6km extension will be used by future tram Line 15. CERN (Conseil Europeen pour le Recherche Nucleaire) is a leading institute in which the UIK and many other countries co-operate in efforts to unravel the secrets of atoms. It employs hundreds of scientists and is most famous for being the birthplace of the Internet.
The 1m-wide gauge, double-track tramline will include 16 stops and construction costs are estimated to be CHF300 million. This project includes a 535m traffic tunnel underneath the centre of Meyrin. To be built by cut-and-cover methods, the Meyrin tunnel will segregate the trams from the car traffic at a crossroads used by 21,000 cars per day. A new depot for stabling at least 40 trams will be built at Blandonnet, near Meyrin."

[Spocket]

Well I appreciate that information and it does indeed strengthen your case. Actually, seeing that, I wonder what precisely is the difference between it and LRT or BRT. It has some at-grade stops (just like both LRT and BRT) , it has high speed (again^), and high capacity (and yet again^)

As somebody who used to live in Ottawa and used their BRT on a regular basis, I've never really understood why people here are so negative about it here. It's definitely rapid and it's far more versatile than LRT. Plus it's cheaper which makes it more suitable for Winnipeg.

[Andy6]

"The Cornavin - CERN extension, with a first stage of completion at Bouchet and subsequently at Meyrin, should be completed at the earliest in 2006 or 2007. Known as the "tram rapide", most of this 8.6km extension will be used by future tram Line 15. CERN (Conseil Europeen pour le Recherche Nucleaire) is a leading institute in which the UIK and many other countries co-operate in efforts to unravel the secrets of atoms. It employs hundreds of scientists and is most famous for being the birthplace of the Internet.
The 1m-wide gauge, double-track tramline will include 16 stops and construction costs are estimated to be CHF300 million. This project includes a 535m traffic tunnel underneath the centre of Meyrin. To be built by cut-and-cover methods, the Meyrin tunnel will segregate the trams from the car traffic at a crossroads used by 21,000 cars per day. A new depot for stabling at least 40 trams will be built at Blandonnet, near Meyrin."

So construction costs alone would be hundreds of millions for one line of about 5 miles in length. Land acquisition, equipment and operating costs would be on top of that. It seems unaffordable in a city with so many more pressing priorities, but who knows.

[ILYR]

Well I appreciate that information and it does indeed strengthen your case. Actually, seeing that, I wonder what precisely is the difference between it and LRT or BRT. It has some at-grade stops (just like both LRT and BRT) , it has high speed (again^), and high capacity (and yet again^).

LRT light rail transit. They are usually built entirely separate from existing route networks (e.g. edmonton), but may also cross onto existing routes (e.g. calgary). They are heavier (wider rails, larger rails cars) than trams systems.

Tram systems are usually on dedicated lanes on existing major roads, but in places may be separate. Commonly coexist with buses, meaning they will both uses the same lane. The rails are within the street and do not stick up. thus vehicles can cross the tracks. LRT tracks are like this when they cross roads, or briefly use the same route. Trams are generally lighter and thiner than LRT cars.

BRT bus rapid transit is similar to trams, but do not make use of rails. The difference is that buses will carry fewer passengers, even for articulating buses. Also to be pollution free buses would have to be trolley buses. Thus these buses would also be restricted to specific routes and lanes as with a tram system.

There are definitely similarities between the systems. However, I like trams because they are cheaper to build than an LRT system. They are placed along existing routes. Carry more passengers than buses. and can be pollution free.

[ILYR]

So construction costs alone would be hundreds of millions for one line of about 5 miles in length. Land acquisition, equipment and operating costs would be on top of that. It seems unaffordable in a city with so many more pressing priorities, but who knows.

Land acquisition is not an issue, as I said before they are built on existing routes (e.g. main and portage) taking out the median and 1 lane.

Any new system would require initial payout regardless (LRT, BRT, subway, even just basic upgrades to the existing system). These systems would take a number of years to build, likely in stages. Thus the cost is spread out over a number of years. We also must look to the future. Winnipeg will grow and it would be more cost effective to put in place a system that will benefit Winnipeg in the long run. Putting in the infrastructure now for a more advanced efficient system now, will be far cheaper than in the future.
Also any transit system has operating costs. In fact for our existing bus system the single biggest cost is fuel (gas, diesel). A system using electricity generated from Manitoba hydro should result in significant savings (also my earlier note about trams with regenerative systems).

Also the cost noted above 300CHF (~300CAD) for 8.6km, which included a 535m traffic tunnel. That likely sucks up a good chunk of the cost. Therefore you would have to plan a network to avoid tunnels or new bridges.

Lastly an effective transportation network (both transit and commercial) is a major priority in this city. A poor transportation system costs the city millions each year. An inefficient system also requires more fuel and thus more pollution. I believe that pollution is also a major priority in this city. Efficient cities can save money, therefore their tax dollars go farther. Granted to make Winnipeg more efficient we must spend money now, but we will save in the future.

[Andy6]

Granted to make Winnipeg more efficient we must spend money now, but we will save in the future.

I hope you're right but it sounds very dubious to me. I can't see any reason at all that Winnipeg needs to worry about a rapid transit system now, given the enormous cost.

[The Jabroni]

I hope you're right but it sounds very dubious to me. I can't see any reason at all that Winnipeg needs to worry about a rapid transit system now, given the enormous cost.

Of course, everything comes down to costs, but the attitude that most people around this city thinks about is always negative, especially systems like BRTs, LRTs, or to a lesser extent, subways. "Oh it's too much!" or "Oh we can't afford that!" or "I'd rather see that money spent somewhere else!" or "It's a waste of money. Spend it on something more better!" I mean what's left to spend it on something better? We can't just dodge these options forever, and we can't just focus only on fixing our roads forever either. More cars will be on the road if you just focus on road infrastructure, let alone the climates we get here. I know there are more factors involved here (such as suburbanism and such). Yes, it's nice to fix the roads, but you can't just think of just only roads. You gotta see the big picture, and (no pun intended) look down the road in things.

Unfortunately, everything in this city is looked down upon for the short term. Yes, I might be just whining about this whole thing, but we need ACTUAL progress in this city. Term limits in city hall would be an excellent start. :)

Also note, I'm a bit drunk right now just typing this. It may be early, but hey.

[j.online]

I hope you're right but it sounds very dubious to me. I can't see any reason at all that Winnipeg needs to worry about a rapid transit system now, given the enormous cost.

But somehow city council found reason enough to budget 2.1 billion on infrastructure (for cars) that we already know now that we won't be able to afford. :shrug:

My point: Money will not be the decisive factor in getting a proper transportation system in Winnipeg. Any system, be it highways for cars, LRT, BRT, tram, whatever, will cost billions of dollars. There is not a single large scale public transportation project in the country where the fed's aren't the major funder (sorry, don't have stats handy).

Anyway, for those of you interested in turning our big talk into action, I was forwarded this info the other day:
The Rapid Transit Coalition meeting is being initiated by the Sierra Club of Winnipeg and the Facebook site, Winnipeggers for Better Public Transit.

WHEN: Monday, January 14th at 5:15pm

WHERE: Manitoba Eco-Network, 3-303 Portage Ave. (above the Mountain Equipment Co-Op store at Portage and Donald)

Recent council decisions to hike transit fares and to make expanding car infrastructure the top priority, show that we have a long way to go in convincing this City Council to take a leadership role in supporting public transit.

One bit of advice I would give advocates in this cause is that the focus be on the benefits of and public support for rapid transit rather than debating amongst ourselves about which form of rapid transit is best: whether it be LRT, BRT or a subway.

[jimj_wpg]

Sorry to dismiss something from the environmental community like Sierra and eco-net... but they are for Bus Rapid Transit, and are stubborn in their beliefs... Their idea of rapid transit is a bicycle with bicycle paths built along former rail lines.

I wouldn't waste my time with them...

However, our group (TRUWinnipeg) is steadfastly in support of rail rapid transit.... and so if some of you would like to meet us, then we can arrange a meeting time.

[Corndogger]

My point: Money will not be the decisive factor in getting a proper transportation system in Winnipeg. Any system, be it highways for cars, LRT, BRT, tram, whatever, will cost billions of dollars. There is not a single large scale public transportation project in the country where the fed's aren't the major funder (sorry, don't have stats handy).



In Alberta I can think of some large scale transportation projects in which the Fed's are barely involved. The bypass freeway (201) in Calgary has only seen the Fed's make one crappy little contribution of $75 million and that was only dealing with one section of the road. The cost of that portion of the road is now around $450 million. Another section is being done as a P3 for $930 million. The last two sections will also more than likely be done as P3s and the province is paying for everything. Similar situation in Edmonton with 216. The province is also spending hundreds of millions of dollars on the highway to Fort McMurray (it'll easily be over $1 billion by the time they are done) and a similar amount on the highway to Grande Prairie. The LRT systems in Calgary and Edmonton also have received basically nothing from the feds. Maybe Alberta is the exception but I doubt it since the BC government has being paying the bulk of the costs for upgrading the Trans Canada thru various parts of the mountains. If you guys are waiting for the feds to help you good luck.

[Corndogger]

My point: Money will not be the decisive factor in getting a proper transportation system in Winnipeg. Any system, be it highways for cars, LRT, BRT, tram, whatever, will cost billions of dollars. There is not a single large scale public transportation project in the country where the fed's aren't the major funder (sorry, don't have stats handy).



In Alberta I can think of some large scale transportation projects in which the Fed's are barely involved. The bypass freeway (201) in Calgary has only seen the Fed's make one crappy little contribution of $75 million and that was only dealing with one section of the road. The cost of that portion of the road is now around $450 million. Another section is being done as a P3 for $930 million. The last two sections will also more than likely be done as P3s and the province is paying for everything. Similar situation in Edmonton with 216. The province is also spending hundreds of millions of dollars on the highway to Fort McMurray (it'll easily be over $1 billion by the time they are done) and a similar amount on the highway to Grande Prairie. The LRT systems in Calgary and Edmonton also have received basically nothing from the feds. Maybe Alberta is the exception but I doubt it since the BC government has being paying the bulk of the costs for upgrading the Trans Canada thru various parts of the mountains. If you guys are waiting for the feds to help you good luck.

[Corndogger]

In Alberta...

Interesting! For some reason my post got reposted again. Reruns come to the Skyscraper Forums!

[Pootkao]

Sorry to dismiss something from the environmental community like Sierra and eco-net... but they are for Bus Rapid Transit, and are stubborn in their beliefs... Their idea of rapid transit is a bicycle with bicycle paths built along former rail lines.

I wouldn't waste my time with them...

However, our group (TRUWinnipeg) is steadfastly in support of rail rapid transit.... and so if some of you would like to meet us, then we can arrange a meeting time.

And TRUWinnipeg has proven time and time again that with grande ideals come zero regards to economics or political realities.

[drew]

There are definitely similarities between the systems. However, I like trams because they are cheaper to build than an LRT system. They are placed along existing routes. Carry more passengers than buses. and can be pollution free.

...and will make use of the downtown's major street system that was originally built with at-grade street cars.

The major thoroughfares in this city can be made to accept this kind of system rather painlessly.

I am a firm believer that this type of system is the only realistic approach to rail-based, quasi rapid transit for Winnipeg. Ideally, it should over the long term work to eliminate transit buses from entering the downtown core altogether, and allow them to serve as feeders to major routes in and out of downtown.

[Alva360]

In regards to the news that was announced today, I think we may be onto something here!

If they do this the right way the city can use some of those exsisting rail lines for rapid transit mixed in with greenspace etc.

It's a start to something.......... definitely not getting any hopes up though because we all know how this city works.

[The Jabroni]

In regards to the news that was announced today, I think we may be onto something here!

If they do this the right way the city can use some of those exsisting rail lines for rapid transit mixed in with greenspace etc.

It's a start to something.......... definitely not getting any hopes up though because we all know how this city works.

Probably. I mean, it would be nice to see the old Canadian Pacific Station (now Aboriginal Centre) to be used again, like it was years ago.

Although, it would be nice to see new development as well. There's huge potential with this place if a plan to use it will go forward!

[flatlander]

Would also be nice to relocate the Fort Rouge yards, to tie Lord Roberts/Fort Rouge together and create new development opportunities. For some reason i think that might have happened had the BRT plan gone through? I could be imagining that.

[fengshui]

BC spending $14 billion on transit and we are using our transit money to build a waterpark. Beautiful!

[1ajs]

7 million of it

[The Jabroni]

Go figure.

God I love this city. :koko:

[newflyer]

BC spending $14 billion on transit and we are using our transit money to build a waterpark. Beautiful!

Please take note everyone...

On Jan 14th the B.C government commited $14 billion to rapid transit....


Where is Gary Doer?? ... all I see is finger pointing at the Katz, who has the smallest budget.

You want a 7 million dollar rapid transit??? .. you got it.... a one way ticket down a waterslide. Wheeeee!!!

Now blame the NDP for doing nothing on this front.

The city government will NEVER be able to flip the cost of a rapid transit.

[1ajs]

Please take note everyone...

On Jan 14th the B.C government commited $14 billion to rapdi transit....


Where is Gary Doer?? ... all I see is finger pointing at the Katz, who has the smallest budegt.

You want a 7 million dollar rapid trasit??? .. you got it.... a one way ticket down a waterslide. Wheeeee!!!

Now blame the NDP for doing nothing on this front.

The city government will NEVER be able to flip the cost of a rapid transit.

we need better alternative to doer... mcfydan was an idiot and the libs are jokes... untill we get a decent leader to either one of the opsition parties were going to be stuck with doer...

[Spocket]

we need better alternative to doer... mcfydan was an idiot and the libs are jokes... untill we get a decent leader to either one of the opsition parties were going to be stuck with doer...
Actually I voted for Gerard last time round. Usually I go with the PCs but yup, McFadyen was a bit too 'excited' to be taken seriously. I thought the Libs were a pretty good alternative (they do tend to do well for the economy after all and they at least have people in the party who understand why mass transit is important)

[VanExPat]

a classic piece of winnipeg journalism if I've ever seen one.
one MP talks to the press about an incredibly complicated pipe dream project that would cost tens of millions of dollars, and has already been unsucessfully suggested two or three times before. he has no firm plan, he has no other parts of the civic, provincial, or federal government intrested (vague statements of possible future support dont count). the railroad involved has absolutely no intrest in the project. the funding could "maybe" come from some vaguely related federal funds, which are probably already spoken for by other projects. and now the press is in a tizzy over the latest "silver bullet" that will solve all the city's woes in one neat little project. wonderful.

assuming you could completely remove the yards, how would this plan work? the area is still ringed by industrial businesses and undesireable housing. If you put more public housing in place its likely going to wind up the same as any other MHA venture. If you put the private sector to work you'll wind up with either some kind of gated whyte ridge style community that doesnt integrate with the surroundings, or...nothing. Are there even any developers working on a large enough scale that would want to get involved in building mid to low priced homes?
a development that large would have to be done incredibly well to blend in with the surrounding neighbourhoods. all I can seem to envision is some well-intentioned mess that winds up sticking out like a sore thumb!
but maybe thats just me, maybe I'm just another typical winnipeg naysayer whos pessimism is holding the province back?

[rrskylar]

Any forum member still brave enough to admit that they voted for dipshit Katz?

[The Jabroni]

No. I voted for the other guy. Who was he again!? Someone's name that ended with a V...:rolleyes:

[flatlander]

Please take note everyone...

On Jan 14th the B.C government commited $14 billion to rapid transit....


Where is Gary Doer?? ... all I see is finger pointing at the Katz, who has the smallest budget.

You want a 7 million dollar rapid transit??? .. you got it.... a one way ticket down a waterslide. Wheeeee!!!

Now blame the NDP for doing nothing on this front.

The city government will NEVER be able to flip the cost of a rapid transit.

Where do you think the $43 million came from in the first place, the city? Hardly. The feds and province. That's why they need to sign off on any other use for the money.

If you want to criticize the province, do it for not standing up to Katz and insisting the money go to rapid transit. Katz is now using federal transit money for fixing transit garages. Nice.

Get your facts straight. Your posts are nothing but rhetoric.

[RAFS]

Katz is now using federal transit money for fixing transit garages.

Using transit money to fix something transit related! BASTARD!!!!! :hell:

[Only The Lonely..]

No. I voted for the other guy. Who was he again!? Someone's name that ended with a V...:rolleyes:

Ohh yaa that crazy metrosexual dude with the unpronouncable last name! Who was he again??

[1ajs]

i think it was kaj i voted for i can't remember i know i voted for rob for my city councler though

[Andy6]

Using transit money to fix something transit related! BASTARD!!!!! :hell:

Yes, we only build new things, including a $500,000,000 rapid transit system that we could have built for $43,000,000 if we just closed our eyes and wished hard enough. We do not maintain anything that exists because that isn't exciting. Winnipeg needs someone with the vision to understand this. Anyone else is an idiot.

[tygunn]

Looks like the hybrid articulated buses were out for a test run; a friend's sister snapped these:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2222/2200551415_1bdf478caf.jpg?v=0
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2064/2200551409_cb3c2cf5a6.jpg?v=0
(photo credit: noricum on Flickr)

[The Jabroni]

^That's pretty slick. What route was the bus using? 60?

[Corndogger]

What's up with the French on the side of the bus?

[1ajs]

aww we have a large French community in Winnipeg... so much so that a whack of parking tickets got tossed out of court for a whole section of the city cause the tickets were not bilingual...

anyhow i got some pics of it :D camera locked up on me or i woulda had it right in the midle of the shot stupid single shot mode forgot i hat it set to that :S instead of continues mode
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2069/2202656542_d91785e585_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2079/2202656550_b6abfedf17_o.jpg

[Only The Lonely..]

I'm surprised they didn't mention anything about this in the news. Looks good.

[Pootkao]

What's up with the French on the side of the bus?

Are we not in Canada? Does Winnipeg & Manitoba not have a long french-speaking history and the largest french-speaking community west of Quebec?

Don't try to start an argument on a topic you know little about.


ps: I rode one of those busses the other day! They're spacious and quite comfortable! This is actually transit money well-spent.

[1ajs]

ps: I rode one of those busses the other day! They're spacious and quite comfortable! This is actually transit money well-spent.

hopefully we get a cuple more

[The Jabroni]

hopefully we get a cuple more

We're getting 20 actually. ;)

I also noticed they re-numbered the Invero buses, from 701-710, to 901-910.

[newflyer]

Looks like the hybrid articulated buses were out for a test run; a friend's sister snapped these:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2222/2200551415_1bdf478caf.jpg?v=0

(photo credit: noricum on Flickr)

I really like the colour sceme of this bus... very nice. :tup:

Is this going to be the new colors of Winnipeg Transit?

[Spocket]

^They already are.

[Greco Roman]

^They already are.

Thank God! Orange and yellow is very much out of date.

[Andy6]

I am so disappointed to see the orange and cream apparently being phased out. It is part of the history of the city and something that a surprising number of people who visit Winnipeg remember fondly. When you have a great trademark image like that, you build on it. You don't ditch it in order to look bland and generic like everywhere else.

[The Jabroni]

Well, there's still time to still love them. The MCI Classic buses in the fleet won't be replaced for another few years, as well as other older New Flyer high floor buses. Though, they're mostly seen and used during rush hour.

[Corndogger]

Are we not in Canada? Does Winnipeg & Manitoba not have a long french-speaking history and the largest french-speaking community west of Quebec?

Don't try to start an argument on a topic you know little about.


I know enough that if someone doesn't question the never ending intrusion of French into areas where it is a distinct minority (not even the number 2 language) that in short order it will take over in government-related matters and our economy will suffer. Take the federal government as a perfect example of what I'm talking about. So don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. We all know what's going on but I just happen to have the balls to say something about it.

[vid]

So how much does it cost, exactly, to put a few French words on a bus? 2 million? 3 million? 8 million?

[1ajs]

winnipeg has a masive french comunity... there are large french comunities out side of the city that are only french... and we imbrace this heritage whats wrong with that?

and this is not the place to be discusing the pile of bullshit the goes on in otowa with regards to quebec........ if you wana discuss that start a thread in the canada section.......

[Only The Lonely..]

Yaa, but anyone who can speak French in Winnipeg has a pretty damn good understanding of English too.

I don't mind that there is French on the bus, but let's not pretend either that these people would be totally lost if there was no French signage.

You just can't function in Winnipeg without being able to speak English. Much like how you can't function in Quebec City without a solid understanding of French.

[Greco Roman]

DE TOUTE FACON, I'm glad to see these buses in Winnipeg. I know that here in Edmonton, the route 9 bus from Northgate Mall to Southgate Mall runs up and down 97th and 109th Streets where there is a HUGE volume of people carried and therefore incorporates these buses. Besides route 60, what other routes in Winnipeg would these buses be found on? My guess would be the 47 Transcona bus at peak times since I recall from my U of W days taking the bus where there had to be extra buses called in to handle the passenger loads.

[Corndogger]

winnipeg has a masive french comunity... there are large french comunities out side of the city that are only french... and we imbrace this heritage whats wrong with that?

and this is not the place to be discusing the pile of bullshit the goes on in otowa with regards to quebec........ if you wana discuss that start a thread in the canada section.......

Just to back up what I'm saying, according to Stats Canada only 0.1% of the population of Winnipeg speaks only French. You can embrace whatever you want but when the rest of the country (let's be specific and say Alberta) pays for this stuff then I have a right to bitch. Something tells me a lot of people in Winnipeg do not support such initiatives because it takes money away from other more important things.

[Corndogger]

So how much does it cost, exactly, to put a few French words on a bus? 2 million? 3 million? 8 million?

It's probably the entire fleet. So considering they have to form committees, consult the Official Languages Commissioner, etc. I'll guess $8 million. But I'm sure Winnipegers would rather be politically correct than have an extra 20 or so buses.

[Greco Roman]

This is not a language thread guys, it's a transit thread.

Can we please keep it to transit issues?

Thanks!

[1ajs]

West of Québec:
Manitoba 4.5%
Saskachewan 2%
Alberta 2.1%
British Columbia 1.5%

In terms of number of French speaking individuals in Canada, Manitoba is 6th,
but it is third in density (ratio) though:
1. Québec: 5 700 000
2. Ontario: 533 000
3. New Brunswick: 243 000
4. Alberta: 66 000
5. British Columbia: 63 000
6. Manitoba: 47 500
7. Nova Scotia: 36 300
8. Saskatchewan: 19 500
9. Prince Edward Island: 6100
10. Newfoundland and Labrador: 2400
11. Yukon 1100
12. Northwest Territories: 1050
13. Nunavut: around 500


East of Québec:
New Brunswick have 33% French to English though total population is 729 000.
Nova Scotia 4% (almost 900 000 pop)
Prince Edwards Island 4.3% (132 000 pop)

Insignificant % in Newfoundland and Labrador, Nunavut and Northwest Territories.

[1ajs]

It's probably the entire fleet. So considering they have to form committees, consult the Official Languages Commissioner, etc. I'll guess $8 million. But I'm sure Winnipegers would rather be politically correct than have an extra 20 or so buses.

the things the city has not maid bilingual has cost the city million in court fees ect.......

[Greco Roman]

Guys, please? Can we stick to the transit topic at hand?

I'm so tired of all the Winnipeg threads getting derailed or hijacked and turned into shit. If you want to debate linguistics in the city, please start a new thread.

Thank you.

[Only The Lonely..]

Yaa, who cares about the French!? What does this have to do with Transit???

[vid]

It's probably the entire fleet.

No, Thunder Bay's buses have a new livery as well (it's ugly shit, btw.) but they haven't re-done any of the old buses. They just use it on the new buses. They're not going to repaint any of the other buses. (At this time, anyway. They only have 12M to spend a year) These actually seem to use less additional paint to the white base than the old cream and orange, so it's probably cheaper. (Our design uses three times as much paint, and uses about 50 colours when the older scheme just has one!)

On that note, our buses have no words. Just the city's gay eagle logo and their url. The ads are all in English, but they're just ads. I'm sure they'd allow you to stuck up some crazy Japanese squid pizza add on their if you had the money. The old ones didn't actually have any words at all, just their blue dashy stripe. Warning stickers inside are bilingual but those are put on by the manufacturer, not the bus line itself, so they came "standard".

[newflyer]

DE TOUTE FACON, I'm glad to see these buses in Winnipeg. I know that here in Edmonton, the route 9 bus from Northgate Mall to Southgate Mall runs up and down 97th and 109th Streets where there is a HUGE volume of people carried and therefore incorporates these buses. Besides route 60, what other routes in Winnipeg would these buses be found on? My guess would be the 47 Transcona bus at peak times since I recall from my U of W days taking the bus where there had to be extra buses called in to handle the passenger loads.

Route 21/22 .. Portage Ave is a high volume route.

[Spocket]

Besides route 60, what other routes in Winnipeg would these buses be found on? My guess would be the 47 Transcona bus at peak times since I recall from my U of W days taking the bus where there had to be extra buses called in to handle the passenger loads.
Routes 62, 60, 47, and the 11 would probably be good candidates for the articulated buses. The 19 at peak hours might make sense as well but that's tough to say. The 55 and the 14 could be combined into one 'super-route' now that there is development to the Perimeter but I have no idea if that's even feasible.

[Greco Roman]

Check out Edmonton's ambitious Rapid Transit expansion plan. I'm hoping this goes through.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=144549

This is one reason why I love Edmonton, although I am super jealous that Winnipeg a) lacks funds for such projects and b) lacks vision since even if we had this golden opportunity, no one would deem it valid for Winnipeg :(

[flatlander]

Free Public Lecture
Discussion of a National Transit Strategy

Speaker: Michael Roschlau, President and CEO Canadian Urban Transit
Association (CUTA)

Tuesday, January 29, 2008
7:30-9:00 pm.
Convocation Hall,
2nd floor, Wesley Hall
515 Portage Avenue
University of Winnipeg

Hosted by Jenny Gerbasi, Mayor’s Environmental Advisory Committee
Sponsored by the Institute of Urban Studies and the Manitoba
Professional Planners Institute
The IUS Lecture Series is brought to you by Corbett Cibinel Architects

According to Mr. Roschlau, sustainable transportation improves
environment (decreased pollution and land use), health and access (5000
deaths per year in Canada related to pollution), the economy (reduction
in road infrastructure and utility costs) and land use (compact
development saves people time, stress and increased land costs).

Car use is on the increase. More cars demand more road space, more
urban sprawl, and higher-cost economy. Transit ridership has been
steadily rising with overall transit spending declining. This has
resulted in service reductions and fare hikes.

[ILYR]

Guys, please? Can we stick to the transit topic at hand?

I'm so tired of all the Winnipeg threads getting derailed or hijacked and turned into shit. If you want to debate linguistics in the city, please start a new thread.

Thank you.

Well said. If you are going to add to any thread keep it on topic and do not make comments that are baseless. There is nothing more annoying than posts that have no factual basis.

Keep’in it Riel

[The Jabroni]

Routes 62, 60, 47, and the 11 would probably be good candidates for the articulated buses. The 19 at peak hours might make sense as well but that's tough to say. The 55 and the 14 could be combined into one 'super-route' now that there is development to the Perimeter but I have no idea if that's even feasible.

I think the 36 Northwest Super Express route (along with any Super Express routes that goes to downtown or UofM) would also qualify to have the articulated buses during rush hour.

http://www.winnipegtransit.com/TIMETABLE/MAPS/36V5.gif

[jimj_wpg]

I really like the colour sceme of this bus... very nice. :tup:

Is this going to be the new colors of Winnipeg Transit?

I'm sure you do, NF, it's painted in Tory blue colors. :haha:

[newflyer]

I'm sure you do, NF, it's painted in Tory blue colors. :haha:

Better than puke NDP orange. :jester:

Although its not all politics ... its just a nice modern look.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2222/2200551415_1bdf478caf.jpg?v=0

[The Jabroni]

You know, they should have at least kept the orange within the fleet, like the older low floor buses, while maintaining the blue/city colours. The orange was basically the trademark of our buses. The only orange off of those buses these days are the yellow/orange beater boards.

[vid]

Modern look? It looks like TV graphics from the 90s, with the grey gradient trying to look like metal or something. It's really a boring crap design, imo.

[wags_in_the_peg]

remember when the buses first went white from brightly gross orange? all the seniors were complaining they wouldn't see them in white-out winter conditions. (1) why are seniors out in white-out conditions (2) the bright headlights and lcd graphics showing route numbers would show (3) how many white-out days do we have? 3 maybe 4.

out with the pukey orange and in with white and blue!!!

it's embarassement having all the dif colour buses on the road. get some class and make them all look the same

[Greco Roman]

remember when the buses first went white from brightly gross orange? all the seniors were complaining they wouldn't see them in white-out winter conditions. (1) why are seniors out in white-out conditions (2) the bright headlights and lcd graphics showing route numbers would show (3) how many white-out days do we have? 3 maybe 4.

out with the pukey orange and in with white and blue!!!

it's embarassement having all the dif colour buses on the road. get some class and make them all look the same



HAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

OMG, now that is scraping the bottom of the excuse barrel :rolleyes:

[flatlander]

i wish they looked like airstream trailers.