[vid]

The 32,000 is from Wiki; it's incorrect. That article has major issue and citation issues -- I wouldn't trust it.

[dennis]

RRC is a very big school. Both the huge Notre Dame and the smaller Princess street campus can hold a lot of students. Every once in a while, there are talks of having College-Universitaire de St. Boniface become a full fledged independent degree granting university. It is currently a french language college of the U of M.

[ILYR]

The 32,000 is from Wiki; it's incorrect. That article has major issue and citation issues -- I wouldn't trust it.

The number is correct, but on site student numbers are less (main campus). Students are also at the downtown campus. The number is for registered students. The following is taken from: http://www.gov.mb.ca/ie/intl_students/world_class/institutions/red_river.html

Student Population: Red River College serves an annual student population of over 32,000 full and part-time students. Approximately 6-8,000 students attend on a daily basis with others registered in continuing and distance education programs. Each year the college hosts approximately 300 international students from over 22 countries.

[ILYR]

[QUOTE=ILYR;3531772]

The usual way to compare universities is by full-time undergraduate enrollment in degree programs. Calgary is a little larger than Manitoba by that measure. The figures above, both for Manitoba and Calgary as far as I can tell, include summer students and part-time students. I'm pretty sure that U. of W. has nowhere near 9000 full-time undergrads. You can also see that Calgary has a much larger graduate school, which is the primary source of a university's prestige.

I checked University of Winnipeg web page and it lists only total students at ~9000. If we assume 25% are part-time, which is reasonable, were still looking at about 6750 full-time.

The key here is the total number of students using transit. I would say that both part-time and full-time would use transit equally, as both need to get to and from school. In fact one could argue that part-time students use transit more as they are likely shuffling from home to school to work.

[h0twired]

Red River College has their 06/07 Annual Report online here.

http://rrc.mb.ca/files/File/researchplan/annual/20062007AcademicAnnualRpt_FINAL.pdf

It says that they have 8064 full time students in 06/07.

[The Jabroni]

You're right its not 32,000 according to one page on their site its more like 28,000 students http://www.rrc.mb.ca/index.php?pid=3828

Yes, but still! That's quite a lot of students, regardless of full time or part time. I was thinking that around 9,000 is more of a realistic number at both campuses.

[ILYR]

Data on transit rides over the last few years.
Taken from http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2008/05/07/wpg-transit.html

Winnipeg Transit rides per year
2003 37,771,821
2004 38,618,366
2005 39,953,516
2006 40,242,329
2007 41,201,305
Total increase 2003-2008 9.1%

[Spocket]

^Hmmm...I know that no auto-driver will appreciate this but I think gas needs to be increased in price even more. I don't actually hope that that happens (since it's not just commuters who need gas) but clearly there are some tangible benefits to making auto use too costly for the average city-dweller.

[RAFS]

Read into this whatever you want!

From CBC.ca: 30-year dream of rapid transit in Winnipeg may soon come true http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2008/05/20/rapid-transit.html

[viperred88]

Doesn't anyone want a PRT (private rapid transit)

see the links to know what I mean.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7hgipbHBK8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPOXfMKE50M&feature=related

this could coexist with other forms of transportation.

[JayM]

Doesn't anyone want a PRT (private rapid transit)

see the links to know what I mean.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7hgipbHBK8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPOXfMKE50M&feature=related

this could coexist with other forms of transportation.

Thats pretty cool. www.ultraprt.com <-- check that out.

[1ajs]

winnipeg transit used to be privit and we do have a public and prive system... beaver bus lines........

[rrskylar]

^Hmmm...I know that no auto-driver will appreciate this but I think gas needs to be increased in price even more. I don't actually hope that that happens (since it's not just commuters who need gas) but clearly there are some tangible benefits to making auto use too costly for the average city-dweller.

Of course at the expense of rural folk, you know farmers and the like the one's who produce our food!

[nordique]

Of course at the expense of rural folk, you know farmers and the like the one's who produce our food!

how possible is it in this day in age to go back to small scale farms with families working the plows themselves via horses/oxen or whatever? it would employ like thousands of new people, make people fit, save on emissions/money/gas etc. i know it's probably completely unrealistic, but it'd be fun to see. i'd work a small time farm for a year.

[vid]

Cows pollute more than people just by farting. I'm sure horses aren't too far off. Livestock isn't carbon neutral. (But then, neither is breathing.) It would raise food prices too much as well, and they're already high. Aside from higher labour costs, we'd also have to feed that many more animals.

[Spocket]

Of course at the expense of rural folk, you know farmers and the like the one's who produce our food!

Uh...what's your point ?
You either have a problem with farmers or very selective reading skills.

[vid]

Rural people and farmers are dependent on gas powered vehicles. Though electric vehicles have more torque. It's not like tractors need the speed, they need the strength, and electricity can do that. Farms would also be great places for renewable power, solar on the roofs of farm buildings and wind power. They could sell the excess to have some form of a steady income to support them in off seasons. Worth looking into, at least.

[rrskylar]

Uh...what's your point ?
You either have a problem with farmers or very selective reading skills.

Your point is that increasing fuel costs are a good thing and will result in people driving less, granted, that might be beneficial for the environment and will encourage people to use mass transit.

The downside is that rural folk do not have the opportunity to use mass transit locally and most farm equipment still runs on gas and diesel, thus increased cost for farm produce are borne by those living in both urban and rural areas.

Let me know if this was easier for you to understand.

[Spocket]

Your point is that increasing fuel costs are a good thing and will result in people driving less, granted, that might be beneficial for the environment and will encourage people to use mass transit.

The downside is that rural folk do not have the opportunity to use mass transit locally and most farm equipment still runs on gas and diesel, thus increased cost for farm produce are borne by those living in both urban and rural areas.

Let me know if this was easier for you to understand.

Yeah, that's what I thought you meant. Have you considered maybe reading what I wrote to see if maybe the same sentence you apparently only read half of is now visible to you ? Try that and see if that helps you with the reading comprehension difficulties you're obviously experiencing. That is , after all, something I mentioned rather clearly in the post you felt the need to jump all over. Geez...it was only about two sentences long.

Was two really too many for ya to get through ? Do you need crayons to finish the crossword or do you just drool on it until it looks complete ?

[jimj_wpg]

how possible is it in this day in age to go back to small scale farms with families working the plows themselves via horses/oxen or whatever? it would employ like thousands of new people, make people fit, save on emissions/money/gas etc. i know it's probably completely unrealistic, but it'd be fun to see. i'd work a small time farm for a year.

Good point nordique. That's exactly the way it'll go within the next 25-50 years -- back to manual methods of farming, and one of the side benefits will be more people employed and exercising rather than sitting in front of a 'puter all day.

[Only The Lonely..]

Transit task force a $200,000 'waste'
By: Bartley Kives | Winnipeg Free Press

Updated: May 27 at 12:50 AM CDT

The chairman of Winnipeg's rapid-transit task force is now calling the 2005 exercise a $200,000 waste of time because key recommendations have been ignored.

Transcona Coun. Russ Wyatt has accused Winnipeg Transit of "watering down" the task force's final report, which called for diamond lanes for buses and the creation of busways parallel to Pembina Highway and Nairn Avenue.

On Monday, Wyatt appeared before council's public works committee to complain new diamond lanes proposed for McPhillips Street, Regent Avenue and Henderson Highway do not come close to what the task force had in mind.

"The recommendations are being so watered down, you can't recognize the report any more," the councillor said later in an interview. "It's sad to say, but the citizens of Winnipeg should know the Rapid Transit Task Force was a waste of $200,000 of public funds."

Winnipeg Mayor Sam Katz created the rapid-transit task force in late 2004, following the cancellation of previous mayor Glen Murray's plan to build a busway parallel to Pembina Highway. Wyatt was named chairman and was granted a $220,000 budget to consult the public, seek expert advice and complete a final report in 2005.

In 2006, the city embarked upon a six-year, $142-million transit upgrade and is now in the midst of deciding what to do with a $17.9-million federal transportation kitty granted to the province earlier this year.

Rapid-transit lobbyists want the bulk of that cash spent on the first leg of the Pembina busway, which could cost a total of $70 million. But the mayor and Premier Gary Doer have hinted the cash could be spent on conventional transit or bike paths.

Wyatt, however, said $17.9 million won't even begin to make a dent in Winnipeg Transit's infrastructure deficit and said the city needs 100 new buses as well as at least two busways. The utility's reluctance to even build diamond lanes SEmD a cheap alternative to busways SEmD underscores how little is being done in the city, the councillor complained.

As the price of gasoline soars and motorists in other North American cities embrace public transit, Wyatt believes Winnipeg needs to overhaul its own transit system to ensure people actually use it.

"Clearly, we have not made an investment in transit. And there doesn't seem to be any sense of urgency, even with oil at $130 a barrel," Wyatt said. "The premier and the mayor need to wake up and smell the coffee SEmD or in this case, the gasoline fumes."

Katz, who has grown accustomed to seeing Wyatt criticize other politicians, reacted diplomatically to the criticism from a member of his own cabinet.

"When Coun. Wyatt cares about something, he's prepared to fight for it," said the mayor, adding it sounded like the former transit czar was merely frustrated on Monday.

"I believe the rapid-transit task force had a great deal of value to the city. I'm very glad it was done and I also believe it came up with recommendations we're moving on," Katz said.

But the mayor also said he's a big fan of diamond lanes and would be disappointed if he learned Winnipeg Transit is shying away from creating more lanes for buses.

On Monday, Winnipeg Transit director Dave Wardrop told the public works committee the creation of more full-time diamond lanes would create more traffic problems than they would alleviate.

In April, when Wyatt first attacked Winnipeg Transit for being too timid, Wardrop declined to shoot back and said the councillor was entitled to his opinion.


bartley.kives@freepress.mb.ca

[viperred88]

Diamond Lanes are useless, nobody abides ti them.

[1ajs]

not 100% but they do help viper i use them on my bike

speaking of bikes my latest installment of my bike ride through winnipeg searies elmwood and ek
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=151820

[fengshui]

Do we want public transit or rapid transit? The debate about whether transit is about public policy or efficiently moving people is a good one. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080529.wreynolds0530/BNStory/specialROBmagazine/)

For example, the article states that Japan operates the largest transit system in the world with no government subsidies of any kind, moving more people than all the public transit systems in North America combined.
----
Exerpt:

But then Taiwan isn't obsessed with “public transit” – with government-owned and government-run transit services. It's obsessed with rapid transit. Thus it delegated its high-speed rail service to a consortium of private companies. Using Japanese technology (developed by Kawasaki), the consortium raised more than $15-billion (U.S.) to accomplish the task, one of the most expensive projects of its kind in the world. For this same investment, Toronto could be as close to Ottawa by rail as it is to Scarborough by road – at rush hour.

The question for Canadians is this: Do we want public transit or fast transit? Do we want public transit or efficient transit? Do we want public transit or innovative transit? The question is important. Many Canadians define public transit as public first, transit second. This makes it hard to know whether one is discussing collectivist ideology or physical mobility.

[1ajs]

Transit Drivers reject deal
CJOB's Robert Holland reporting
5/30/2008

Winnipeg Transit Bus drivers have overwhelmingly rejected a tentative contract reached with the city earlier this month..
More than one thousand drivers voted on the package Friday and it was rejected by 87 per cent..
One of the contentious issues for many drivers was changes to the coffee break allowance clause.
The three year contract contains a total wage increase of 7.25 per cent..
Drivers want to keep providing service and have urged their union, the Amalgamated Transit Union, to resume negotiations with the city..

[thurmas]

If and this is a big if,if winnipeg ever does get any form of rapid transit I hope the route is not uofm to downtown, getting to downtown from the uofm and vice versa is not great but isn't that bad compared to getting to other main parts of the city. Myself for example living in fort richmond it takes me 9 minutes to drive to st.vital centre but takes 1 hour and 10 minutes by bus. I would like to see for example a airport to polo park to downtown route, a kildonan place to st.vital centre to pembina route,a kenaston to st.vital centre route ect... the worst part in this city is their is no direct east west transit routes in this city. It sounds more and more like BRT is being shelved but I hope but doubt that Sammy will be serious about his LRT.

[jimj_wpg]

Transit on road to nowhere?
Politicians red-faced because projects remain in limbo
Bartley Kives
Reporter

Two years after Winnipeg Transit announced a $142-million service upgrade, several of the planned improvements are behind schedule or incomplete.

Airport-style signs that display "next bus" information in real time have not been built. A new fare-collection system that automatically counts money is still being planned. Diesel-electric hybrid buses are still being evaluated, orders for new conventional buses have not been filled and money squirreled away to create more diamond lanes, bus shelters and transit hubs still sits in city bank accounts.

Some of the transit-priority signals set up to allow buses to jump queues at intersections have been disabled because they don't work properly. A park-and-ride strategy remains in limbo.

All of this is embarrassing politicians who originally held up the six-year plan as proof of Winnipeg's commitment to public transit.

"There is no excuse for this," said Winnipeg Mayor Sam Katz.

"Some of this stuff is beyond Transit's control, but I'm not accepting the reasons for some of this taking as long as it does. I'm not buying into it."

In 2004, the mayor was portrayed as an enemy of public transit after he cancelled plans for a dedicated bus corridor alongside Pembina Highway. In response, Katz asked Transcona Coun. Russ Wyatt to lead a rapid-transit task force, whose final report recommended some of the improvements announced by Transit in 2006.

Wyatt is now calling the $142-million plan "a bloody disaster" and has called the task force he once led a waste of time and money.

"We have great front-line employees, great workers, but there are far too many managers living in their comfort zone," said Wyatt, who has spent the past six weeks criticizing the city utility.

"We found the money, but the money has to be spent and those projects have to be implemented on a timely basis."

Fort Rouge Coun. Jenny Gerbasi, city council's most vocal rapid-transit advocate, said Winnipeg Transit owes riders an explanation.

"Riders have been waiting a long time for better transit -- both rapid transit and these improvements. So where are they?" she asked. "I don't want to start blaming people, but we need to find out what's going on inside that department... there needs to be transparency."

The sorry state of the upgrades was laid out on May 23 in a finance report on open capital projects.

Winnipeg Transit, however, said the upgrades are rolling out as planned, as money required to pay for major capital upgrades must be saved up over several budget years. "In general, project delivery is occurring," an unnamed city spokesperson said in an e-mail.

Transit director Dave Wardrop concurred, but said he's not comfortable answering questions regarding specific projects. He said he would have to review the CFO's report before he could comment.

Earlier this week, Katz asked Wardrop to pick up the pace when it comes to creating more diamond lanes and queue-jumping lanes, the mayor said.

"All the bus drivers I talk to very much support diamond lanes with enforcement, and queue-jumping," Katz said. "I can emphatically let you know I have told the department (this) is a priority."

A report on the viability of articulated buses is also due out soon, the mayor added. And Glen Laubenstein, Winnipeg's new chief administrative officer, will keep a close eye on Winnipeg Transit, the mayor pledged.

"I believe some of these (upgrades) are in the process of being made, but there is no doubt in my mind we should be doing more, and we should be doing it faster," Katz said.

bartley.kives@freepress.mb.ca

No so rapid transit

In February 2006, Mayor Sam Katz announced a $142-million plan to upgrade Winnipeg Transit over the following six years by purchasing new buses, creating more amenities for passengers and improving infrastructure on the street.

Two years later, some of the upgrades are either incomplete or behind schedule. Here's a sample of amenities that were promised but Winnipeg Transit riders have yet to see:

Diesel-electric hybrid buses

In 2006, $17 million was set aside to purchase hybrid articulated buses, but only $5.3 million was actually spent -- and the city is still evaluating whether "bendy buses" can actually navigate Winnipeg's snowy streets.

Regular buses

A $22.5-million order for 50 new low-floor buses did not get filled last year. Manufacturer New Flyer was behind schedule, Coun. Mike O'Shaughnessy said.

Fare-collection system

In 2007, the city started squirreling away $2 million toward a $10.5-million project that will see new cash boxes that can count coins automatically or validate swipe cards installed on buses. No cash boxes have been installed. A city spokesperson said "the project is proceeding as planned" and "will be completed on time in 2012."

Real-time "next bus" electronic information

The city was supposed to roll out a prototype of an airport-style arrival sign, devoting $78,000 toward the project in 2004. No money was spent through the end of 2007, but a city spokesperson said some hardware has been installed and the project is now proceeding as planned.

Portage Avenue transit shelters

Transit planned to upgrade shelters along a downtown stretch of Portage Avenue at a cost of $150,000. Only $12,000 was spent to the end of last year.

University of Manitoba transit centre

Transit planned to spend $110,000 on the university's transit hub in 2006 but only completed a third of the centre by the end of 2007.

Polo Park transit centre

Similarly, $227,000 was devoted to a new hub at Winnipeg's largest shopping mall in 2006. Only $10,000 was spent by the end of 2007. A further $398,000 slated for 2007 was not touched at all.

St. Vital Centre terminal upgrade

In 2007, Transit was supposed to upgrade its facility at Winnipeg's second-largest mall to the tune of $100,000. None of those funds were touched.

On-board security cameras

Digital cameras were supposed to be installed on buses in 2006 at a cost of $1.1 million. They're finally coming this year, now that Transit siphoned off another $1.8 from the diamond-lane budget, with council approval.

Diamond lanes and queue-jumping lanes

Transit planned to spend $6.9 million last year on dedicated lanes for buses and intersection enhancements, but only spent $856,000 - and then diverted $1.8 million to the security cameras.

Wireless bus protocols

A communication system that would allow buses to automatically relay their positions to Transit headquarters was planned for 2006 at a cost of $150,000. It doesn't exist.

On-board "next stop" announcements

In 2006, every bus was supposed to be equipped with a computerized voice that announces bus stops. The $3-million program is finally being rolled out this year.

Bus radios

At the start of this year, only $846,00 has been spent on a $6-million radio-replacement program originally authorized in 2003.

[jimj_wpg]

Perhaps a long-overdue review of Transit management... Who is there and why and their part in keeping rapid transit from Winnipeg is in order.

I'd also like to see a thorough review of connections between New Flyer, Winnipeg Transit and the oil lobby and how they have had an impact on the delay in rapid transit here.

Maybe the powers that be in New York City are still jealous that at one time property in Winnipeg was worth more than in Manhattan. This was way back in 1910, but maybe the people that have had a say, particularly the Rockefeller family, there have been so jealous of that, that they don't want Winnipeg to have a chance at becoming a more successful city

[1ajs]

doesn't newflyer also make lrt trains?

[spiritedenergy]

Perhaps a long-overdue review of Transit management... Who is there and why and their part in keeping rapid transit from Winnipeg is in order.

I'd also like to see a thorough review of connections between New Flyer, Winnipeg Transit and the oil lobby and how they have had an impact on the delay in rapid transit here.

Maybe the powers that be in New York City are still jealous that at one time property in Winnipeg was worth more than in Manhattan. This was way back in 1910, but maybe the people that have had a say, particularly the Rockefeller family, there have been so jealous of that, that they don't want Winnipeg to have a chance at becoming a more successful city

Are you serious?:crazy:

those people are just incompetent and need to be fired

[newflyer]

doesn't newflyer also make lrt trains?

I don't think so.

But they are making a killing with the hybrid busses. :tup:

[jimj_wpg]

doesn't newflyer also make lrt trains?

Gary (newflyer) doesn't make LRT trains, and neither does New Flyer (the bus manufacterer).

However, Siemens and Bombardier (the largest), and Kawasaki, and Hyundai all make LRT trains.

[jimj_wpg]

Are you serious?:crazy:

those people are just incompetent and need to be fired

I'm serious...check this guy out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Rockefeller

And this backgrounder re: New World Order (NWO):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3HTwu38A-s

He's involved with the Trilateral Commission, the Council on Foreign Relations, etc...

He is involved in the NAU (North American Union) which seeks to merge Canada, U.S. and Mexico into one country, with one currency (the Amero)...

The Rockefellers owned Standard Oil in the United States ... later Exxon (which is ESSO in Canada.

I only found out about David Rockefeller earlier this year from reading on their involvement in funding the feminist movement.

In other words, I don't believe that WT management is acting on their own when they are firmly behind BRT... I think that there is an "invisible hand" at work, some other entity that is guiding their policy actions -- and it's NOT City Council.

[1ajs]

city councle is a joke

[viperred88]

If and this is a big if,if winnipeg ever does get any form of rapid transit I hope the route is not uofm to downtown, getting to downtown from the uofm and vice versa is not great but isn't that bad compared to getting to other main parts of the city. Myself for example living in fort richmond it takes me 9 minutes to drive to st.vital centre but takes 1 hour and 10 minutes by bus. I would like to see for example a airport to polo park to downtown route, a kildonan place to st.vital centre to pembina route,a kenaston to st.vital centre route ect... the worst part in this city is their is no direct east west transit routes in this city. It sounds more and more like BRT is being shelved but I hope but doubt that Sammy will be serious about his LRT.


I agree there is no direct route that goes east west in this city especially from st vital to keneston

[Kinguni]

Myself for example living in fort richmond it takes me 9 minutes to drive to st.vital centre but takes 1 hour and 10 minutes by bus. I would like to see for example a airport to polo park to downtown route, a kildonan place to st.vital centre to pembina route,a kenaston to st.vital centre route ect... the worst part in this city is their is no direct east west transit routes in this city.
The routes are there, the connections are not. Winnipeg Transit's headways on routes are mostly based on ridership on those lines, along with the amount of time it takes a bus to cover that route at various times of day. Unfortunately, that means passengers miss possible connections by 5 minutes in some cases and then have to wait 25 minutes of more for the next bus on that line, all for the sake of efficiency on each route. The whole picture is not taken into consideration.

Airport to Polo Park to Downtown would be a fantastic route, passing close to the hotels near the airport, down St. James St. to Polo Park, and then Portage Ave. to downtown. I think the cab companies would protest though.

[Alva360]

Transit on road to nowhere?
Politicians red-faced because projects remain in limbo
Bartley Kives
Reporter

Two years after Winnipeg Transit announced a $142-million service upgrade, several of the planned improvements are behind schedule or incomplete.

Airport-style signs that display "next bus" information in real time have not been built. A new fare-collection system that automatically counts money is still being planned. Diesel-electric hybrid buses are still being evaluated, orders for new conventional buses have not been filled and money squirreled away to create more diamond lanes, bus shelters and transit hubs still sits in city bank accounts.

Some of the transit-priority signals set up to allow buses to jump queues at intersections have been disabled because they don't work properly. A park-and-ride strategy remains in limbo.

All of this is embarrassing politicians who originally held up the six-year plan as proof of Winnipeg's commitment to public transit.

"There is no excuse for this," said Winnipeg Mayor Sam Katz.

"Some of this stuff is beyond Transit's control, but I'm not accepting the reasons for some of this taking as long as it does. I'm not buying into it."

In 2004, the mayor was portrayed as an enemy of public transit after he cancelled plans for a dedicated bus corridor alongside Pembina Highway. In response, Katz asked Transcona Coun. Russ Wyatt to lead a rapid-transit task force, whose final report recommended some of the improvements announced by Transit in 2006.

Wyatt is now calling the $142-million plan "a bloody disaster" and has called the task force he once led a waste of time and money.

"We have great front-line employees, great workers, but there are far too many managers living in their comfort zone," said Wyatt, who has spent the past six weeks criticizing the city utility.

"We found the money, but the money has to be spent and those projects have to be implemented on a timely basis."

Fort Rouge Coun. Jenny Gerbasi, city council's most vocal rapid-transit advocate, said Winnipeg Transit owes riders an explanation.

"Riders have been waiting a long time for better transit -- both rapid transit and these improvements. So where are they?" she asked. "I don't want to start blaming people, but we need to find out what's going on inside that department... there needs to be transparency."

The sorry state of the upgrades was laid out on May 23 in a finance report on open capital projects.

Winnipeg Transit, however, said the upgrades are rolling out as planned, as money required to pay for major capital upgrades must be saved up over several budget years. "In general, project delivery is occurring," an unnamed city spokesperson said in an e-mail.

Transit director Dave Wardrop concurred, but said he's not comfortable answering questions regarding specific projects. He said he would have to review the CFO's report before he could comment.

Earlier this week, Katz asked Wardrop to pick up the pace when it comes to creating more diamond lanes and queue-jumping lanes, the mayor said.

"All the bus drivers I talk to very much support diamond lanes with enforcement, and queue-jumping," Katz said. "I can emphatically let you know I have told the department (this) is a priority."

A report on the viability of articulated buses is also due out soon, the mayor added. And Glen Laubenstein, Winnipeg's new chief administrative officer, will keep a close eye on Winnipeg Transit, the mayor pledged.

"I believe some of these (upgrades) are in the process of being made, but there is no doubt in my mind we should be doing more, and we should be doing it faster," Katz said.

bartley.kives@freepress.mb.ca

No so rapid transit

In February 2006, Mayor Sam Katz announced a $142-million plan to upgrade Winnipeg Transit over the following six years by purchasing new buses, creating more amenities for passengers and improving infrastructure on the street.

Two years later, some of the upgrades are either incomplete or behind schedule. Here's a sample of amenities that were promised but Winnipeg Transit riders have yet to see:

Diesel-electric hybrid buses

In 2006, $17 million was set aside to purchase hybrid articulated buses, but only $5.3 million was actually spent -- and the city is still evaluating whether "bendy buses" can actually navigate Winnipeg's snowy streets.

Regular buses

A $22.5-million order for 50 new low-floor buses did not get filled last year. Manufacturer New Flyer was behind schedule, Coun. Mike O'Shaughnessy said.

Fare-collection system

In 2007, the city started squirreling away $2 million toward a $10.5-million project that will see new cash boxes that can count coins automatically or validate swipe cards installed on buses. No cash boxes have been installed. A city spokesperson said "the project is proceeding as planned" and "will be completed on time in 2012."

Real-time "next bus" electronic information

The city was supposed to roll out a prototype of an airport-style arrival sign, devoting $78,000 toward the project in 2004. No money was spent through the end of 2007, but a city spokesperson said some hardware has been installed and the project is now proceeding as planned.

Portage Avenue transit shelters

Transit planned to upgrade shelters along a downtown stretch of Portage Avenue at a cost of $150,000. Only $12,000 was spent to the end of last year.

University of Manitoba transit centre

Transit planned to spend $110,000 on the university's transit hub in 2006 but only completed a third of the centre by the end of 2007.

Polo Park transit centre

Similarly, $227,000 was devoted to a new hub at Winnipeg's largest shopping mall in 2006. Only $10,000 was spent by the end of 2007. A further $398,000 slated for 2007 was not touched at all.

St. Vital Centre terminal upgrade

In 2007, Transit was supposed to upgrade its facility at Winnipeg's second-largest mall to the tune of $100,000. None of those funds were touched.

On-board security cameras

Digital cameras were supposed to be installed on buses in 2006 at a cost of $1.1 million. They're finally coming this year, now that Transit siphoned off another $1.8 from the diamond-lane budget, with council approval.

Diamond lanes and queue-jumping lanes

Transit planned to spend $6.9 million last year on dedicated lanes for buses and intersection enhancements, but only spent $856,000 - and then diverted $1.8 million to the security cameras.

Wireless bus protocols

A communication system that would allow buses to automatically relay their positions to Transit headquarters was planned for 2006 at a cost of $150,000. It doesn't exist.

On-board "next stop" announcements

In 2006, every bus was supposed to be equipped with a computerized voice that announces bus stops. The $3-million program is finally being rolled out this year.

Bus radios

At the start of this year, only $846,00 has been spent on a $6-million radio-replacement program originally authorized in 2003.

I was trying to avoid reading this because I knew it wasn't going to be good.... I am not surprised one bit!

Frankly I think everyone on city council and the management over at Winnipeg transit is responsible for this. There should be no excuse..... We need a better transit system very soon and until these nimrods start realizing that we will continue to be this ass backward city.

For F*ck sakes! How difficult is it? Really?

Things are not going to get any cheaper so they better start getting that in their head..... And with the rise of gas prices gives more of a reason to get this going! How can they all sit in their chairs and not see how beneficial a LRT system would be for this city..... Environment, time, money saving, revenue, city image, etc, etc, etc......

It just boggles my mind. So firggin frustrating!!!!!

[Pootkao]

If and this is a big if,if winnipeg ever does get any form of rapid transit I hope the route is not uofm to downtown, getting to downtown from the uofm and vice versa is not great but isn't that bad compared to getting to other main parts of the city. Myself for example living in fort richmond it takes me 9 minutes to drive to st.vital centre but takes 1 hour and 10 minutes by bus. I would like to see for example a airport to polo park to downtown route, a kildonan place to st.vital centre to pembina route,a kenaston to st.vital centre route ect... .


1. Given that the vast majority of suburb-to-suburb commutes are by car, and by car-dependant people, there is little demand for a rapid transit route doing the same. The UofM-to-downtown/Health Sciences routes are the largest grossing transit routes in the city. It makes sense to service the area with the largest demand first.

2. The optics of further enabling people to ignore downtown combined with little hope for a full-scale shift in the cultural mindset of Winnipeg's car-dependant burbanites, you will find little to no political support for such a line.

3. Why the heck do you want to go to these malls anyways?

4. The servicing of said malls and suburban shopping areas through suburban residential and commercial expansion (particularly while the population growth was nil) is the number one reason for downtown's situation.

Why don't you instead become part of the solution?

Start shopping downtown. Support downtown business. Heck, move downtown and invest in the rejuvination of a neighbourhood. Walk, on your feet, on the sidewalks. Tell your friends the burbs don't cut it anymore. Contribute to the life of the city. We could use you down here.

[1ajs]

^^amen

[The Jabroni]

Might I add that there's somewhat of a connection with overweight/obesity amongst suburbanites in relation to people living in urban areas who are more fit, hence the walking part for downtown compared to the driving part in the suburbs...

Just a thought. :shrug:

[jimj_wpg]

Might I add that there's somewhat of a connection with overweight/obesity amongst suburbanites in relation to people living in urban areas who are more fit, hence the walking part for downtown compared to the driving part in the suburbs...

Just a thought. :shrug:

I live downtown and am about 30 pounds overweight. I got diabetes about 4-5 years ago.

The thing is not necessarily if you live downtown or in a car dependent suburb.

For me, I chose to live downtown because I could be within walking distance to the Library, and the then new Forks area.

But after the Web became more and more of a resource in the 90s there was less and less need to go there to gain knowledge.

That left The Forks as a place to spend time in, and half the time the riverwalk is flooded, and the rest of the side resembles an unfinished construction zone.

The Exchange District is now THE place to go for shopping. However it can be a fair distance in inclement weather, so that's why it's nice to have a bus or tram to distribute passengers to and from that area.

[1ajs]

just ride the downtown spirit...

[thurmas]

I do live in the suburbs but I go to the gym 5 days a week and I am not overweight. I would like to live downtown but not in its current state,I don't feel safe there and I find it a very depressing atmoshphere I always remember what's wrong with Winnipeg social ills downtown becuase it is so bad. I always get hit up for change by hobos downtown or harassed by all the idiots and crazies downtown so I regret to say no to downtown. I don't think it's fair us suburbanites get painted in such broad strokes though, I love Winnipeg and hope everyday Winnipeg could improve with a clean and prosperous downtown and rapid transit but it has to get done first! Yes more people should live downtown but suburbs are a fact of life don't fight them just try and have them work in cohesion with a healthy downtown.

[wags_in_the_peg]

I live downtown and am about 30 pounds overweight.

I'm not overwight, I'm just under-tall :tup:

[The Jabroni]

I live downtown and am about 30 pounds overweight. I got diabetes about 4-5 years ago.

The thing is not necessarily if you live downtown or in a car dependent suburb.

For me, I chose to live downtown because I could be within walking distance to the Library, and the then new Forks area.

But after the Web became more and more of a resource in the 90s there was less and less need to go there to gain knowledge.

That left The Forks as a place to spend time in, and half the time the riverwalk is flooded, and the rest of the side resembles an unfinished construction zone.

The Exchange District is now THE place to go for shopping. However it can be a fair distance in inclement weather, so that's why it's nice to have a bus or tram to distribute passengers to and from that area.

That is true too. My point was, that if we had competent and considerate city planners in the first place, then this city would be completely different in terms of how the city was laid out, and the ideology of using cars going from point A to point B in relation to public transit would be at least more balanced than using the former for "primary" transportation.

[spiritedenergy]

I'm serious...check this guy out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Rockefeller

And this backgrounder re: New World Order (NWO):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3HTwu38A-s

He's involved with the Trilateral Commission, the Council on Foreign Relations, etc...

He is involved in the NAU (North American Union) which seeks to merge Canada, U.S. and Mexico into one country, with one currency (the Amero)...

The Rockefellers owned Standard Oil in the United States ... later Exxon (which is ESSO in Canada.

I only found out about David Rockefeller earlier this year from reading on their involvement in funding the feminist movement.

In other words, I don't believe that WT management is acting on their own when they are firmly behind BRT... I think that there is an "invisible hand" at work, some other entity that is guiding their policy actions -- and it's NOT City Council.

What does it have to do with Winnipeg and rapid transit? If they own oil companies they would want to stop transit everywhere not just in a 600,000 souls backwater community.

[j.online]

I do live in the suburbs but I go to the gym 5 days a week and I am not overweight. I would like to live downtown but not in its current state,I don't feel safe there and I find it a very depressing atmoshphere I always remember what's wrong with Winnipeg social ills downtown becuase it is so bad. I always get hit up for change by hobos downtown or harassed by all the idiots and crazies downtown so I regret to say no to downtown. I don't think it's fair us suburbanites get painted in such broad strokes though, I love Winnipeg and hope everyday Winnipeg could improve with a clean and prosperous downtown and rapid transit but it has to get done first! Yes more people should live downtown but suburbs are a fact of life don't fight them just try and have them work in cohesion with a healthy downtown.

dude... (dudette?)... go spend some time in any major city; toronto, new york, chicago, paris, istanbul, berlin, beunos aires, hong kong... they've all got & always will have the hobos, the idiots, & the crazies. i think we should be more concerned if we stop seeing these folks around. one of north america's biggest charades of my generation is the belief that we're supposed to be living in a sterile, monochromatic utopia... wait, that's Disneyland.

i ain't knocking suburbanites. the burbs are great if that's your thing. just don't knock my downtown for having some crazies. (there's too many other credible reasons to knock our downtown)

[j.online]

i'm actually gonna go a step further and follow pootkao's lead of preachin' the good word:

thurmas, why not come spend more time downtown. the problem isn't that there are too many 'hobos', it's that there aren't enough 'normal' folks to offset what people see on the streets. it's gonna take the believers in downtown like yourself to hangout & be seen before the ground swell can ever take hold.

you've even got a selection of sterile and let say not-so-sterile places to hang. take your pick, just make sure to bring your friends and spend some $$$ while visiting! (hopefully on me - i'll be the crazy hitting you up for cash...)

[J-MAN]

I actually like taking the bus .... but really winnipeg's downtown may seems like a scary place but really just needs more newwer buildings like waterfront drive condos in and around that area which also happens to be walking distance to the forks and saint boniface :)

[Pegger5]

Why are Winnipeggers so hard on themselves

Ever been to Calgary's or Edmonton's downtown at night?. I am sure no one living downtown Calgary hangs out at the "Cecil" or in Edmontons East side of downtown.

Girls always have to be on the lookout at night in the beltline in Calgary.... but yet it is still perfered to live close to or in downtown for most young people here in Calgary.

Winnipeg, old time thinking conservative people that are chicken to actually have fun and live close to or in downtown.
Suburbs are boring... I hope you enjoy those "Power Malls" and great restaurants like the "Outback" fun fun fun....

What about Osborne Village? I lived there for years... just as bad as Broadway and Main area. No one is forcing you to live in North of Portage area.
My God. every city in Canada has a bad part of downtown. Vancouver, Toronto Montreal etc, that is just as bad as Winnipeg.

[1ajs]

the villige is still a happening place........

[newflyer]

Why are Winnipeggers so hard on themselves

Ever been to Calgary's or Edmonton's downtown at night?. I am sure no one living downtown Calgary hangs out at the "Cecil" or in Edmontons East side of downtown.

Girls always have to be on the lookout at night in the beltline in Calgary.... but yet it is still perfered to live close to or in downtown for most young people here in Calgary.

Winnipeg, old time thinking conservative people that are chicken to actually have fun and live close to or in downtown.
Suburbs are boring... I hope you enjoy those "Power Malls" and great restaurants like the "Outback" fun fun fun....

What about Osborne Village? I lived there for years... just as bad as Broadway and Main area. No one is forcing you to live in North of Portage area.
My God. every city in Canada has a bad part of downtown. Vancouver, Toronto Montreal etc, that is just as bad as Winnipeg.

I agree with you completely.

Why do people in Winnipeg use far too many excuses to ignore downtown, but will have nothing but great things to say of other city's downtowns.. while those city's stuggle with many of the same issues.

Downtown wouldn't be such a focal point for down and outters if there were more people, especially middle income people living, shopping and working downtown.

[thurmas]

I have to disagree Montreal's downtown is a 1000 times nicer than winnipeg's, Edmonton's is fairly nice, Calgary's is fine, Ottawa's is good. Yes every major city's downtown in Canada has it's rough area's but Winnipeg's has been ravaged by a slow progressing cancer on it's downtown. Winnipeg's downtown has some great pockets that I enjoy ie:The exchange, the forks but it's TRUE HEART Portage and Main have slowly dwindled to streets ravaged with native poverty, public urination,ravage panhandling,perverts(last time I was at portage place a guy was washing his balls in the sink)muggings in front of portage place all the time. Drug deals abound even in plain sight in daylight during lunch hour in front of air canada building. The only development that does occur on portage is more uneeded government buildings. If I and many more people were to either set up shop or move to downtown it would require 3 things 1) a dedicated beef up of 50-75 downtown only police officers round the clock to make poeple feel safe around downotwn with 100 additional private security officers for malls, public buildings ect... 2) a dedicated massive property tax cut or a 5 year property tax exemption for starting a business downtown similar to what Fargo did 8 years ago which is in the red river revitalization article in this forum. 3) true rapid transit system so Winnipegers can travel quickly and efficienty to visit or live downtown. I don't hate downtown it just breaks my heart to see what has happened to her. I won't move downtown just because it's downtown it has to improve first before most people will give it a try.

[1ajs]

yes but each city has its issues...

as fir refusing to move downtown cause theres not enuff blah well ,move and demand it and it will come hell get your friends to tallow suit and change will happen sit and wait and nothing will happen.....

[ScrappyPeg]

Where are people witnessing this stuff in downtown Peg? I work downtown, walk downtown streets every day - I don't see any muggings, drug dealings, mass amounts of panhandlers or ball washers. There are definitely street people around, but on warm sunny days - they just aren't as noticeable as there are just so many other non street people walking about. I don't have any problems or concerns walking down Main St or Portage Ave. I don't particularly like seeing some of the groups of the smelly people leaning against some of the vacant buildings, but those people are usually harmless.

I'd be more apprehensive with the young punks who do the BS in the suburbs - wandering around at all hours just looking for trouble or someone to roll.

[Pegger5]

I have to disagree Montreal's downtown is a 1000 times nicer than winnipeg's, Edmonton's is fairly nice, Calgary's is fine, Ottawa's is good. Yes every major city's downtown in Canada has it's rough area's but Winnipeg's has been ravaged by a slow progressing cancer on it's downtown. Winnipeg's downtown has some great pockets that I enjoy ie:The exchange, the forks but it's TRUE HEART Portage and Main have slowly dwindled to streets ravaged with native poverty, public urination,ravage panhandling,perverts(last time I was at portage place a guy was washing his balls in the sink)muggings in front of portage place all the time. Drug deals abound even in plain sight in daylight during lunch hour in front of air canada building. The only development that does occur on portage is more uneeded government buildings. If I and many more people were to either set up shop or move to downtown it would require 3 things 1) a dedicated beef up of 50-75 downtown only police officers round the clock to make poeple feel safe around downotwn with 100 additional private security officers for malls, public buildings ect... 2) a dedicated massive property tax cut or a 5 year property tax exemption for starting a business downtown similar to what Fargo did 8 years ago which is in the red river revitalization article in this forum. 3) true rapid transit system so Winnipegers can travel quickly and efficienty to visit or live downtown. I don't hate downtown it just breaks my heart to see what has happened to her. I won't move downtown just because it's downtown it has to improve first before most people will give it a try.

All this happens in Calgary today plus plus. Come spend a night here. Same as East end of Edmonton by the courthouse. Good luck with surviving at night, and Oh pick up some 3rd tier hookers and crack for me!
Oh, go visit East Hasting in VCR at night. see how long before you are hooked!!
I just took a guy from Denver (we were there on business) and walked around the whole East side and West side Exchange district and he loved it. There was not one bad thing or person we saw... So what the hell? If I moved back it would be in the downtown area. Maybe not North of Portage and West of Main but I would still be downtown.... Do you think it is unsafe to go to a hockey game at MTS Centre at night? That is right downtown! Get over it... Hey, have you ever walked down Young Street in Toronto at night? People need to travel then they would realize that the Peg is not so bad... Yes no LRT or 50 story building but again, get over it...
Oh, if anyone mentions Natives again you should be banned from this forum. Every City has the same social issues weather they are white, black, asian, or whatever... Keep race out of it!

[Markus41]

Oh, if anyone mentions Natives again you should be banned from this forum. Every City has the same social issues weather they are white, black, asian, or whatever... Keep race out of it!

Why? This is a serious issue for Winnipeg. I don't understand why many like you always shy away from this or try to sweep it under the rug. Winnipeg is well known for it's native poverty across Canada, and this is at least a part of why the downtown isn't achieving it's full potential and why many do not want to set foot in the downtown for fear of safety. Yes, it isn't just aboriginal poverty that is apparent in the downtown, but I would bet that the majority of poor/street people in Winnipeg's downtown are indeed aboriginal.

[thurmas]

I am sorry but I have travelled to most major canadian cities(some more than others ie:Edmonton,Montreal,Ottawa, and Toronto) and all of their downtowns were much safer and cleaner than Winnipeg's. I've been to Montreal 5 times since 99 and it is a vibrant and beautiful downtown with buildings on their main streets that are actually get this occupied and not by a pay day loan or bargain clothing store. As for the native issue it exists and it shouldn't be ignored it should be discussed because it is a major problem just as long as people on here propose valid solutions instead of blatant stupid racism and jokes!

[1ajs]

stop the bitchfest already you guys........ yea we got social issues no one wants to deal with yea we got panhandlers.........
interesting idea about change for panhanlers though.... i would rather see them take up insturments and become buskers....
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/06/07/simon.homeless.parking.meter.cnn

anyhow untill we as a society across canada wake up and deal with the social problems that we have from coast to coast its not just natives....

[Pootkao]

see p.44

[1ajs]

Stop complaining and start doing something to make this city a better place.


:tup:

[newflyer]

I would be very willing to see more tax incentives for downtown investment and development. Perhaps a property tax break would also help draw people to live downtown. The elimination of the business tax, as planned, will help all areas of the city.

It will take something to build the momentum towards downtown. The fact is decades of bad managment and high taxes has created the decline of downtown and it will take more than wishing to turn it back around to a vibrant centre Winnieg deserves for its downtown.

[Pootkao]

I have to disagree Montreal's downtown is a 1000 times nicer than winnipeg's, Edmonton's is fairly nice, Calgary's is fine, Ottawa's is good. Yes every major city's downtown in Canada has it's rough area's but Winnipeg's has been ravaged by a slow progressing cancer on it's downtown. Winnipeg's downtown has some great pockets that I enjoy ie:The exchange, the forks but it's TRUE HEART Portage and Main have slowly dwindled to streets ravaged with native poverty, public urination,ravage panhandling,perverts(last time I was at portage place a guy was washing his balls in the sink)muggings in front of portage place all the time. Drug deals abound even in plain sight in daylight during lunch hour in front of air canada building. The only development that does occur on portage is more uneeded government buildings. If I and many more people were to either set up shop or move to downtown it would require 3 things 1) a dedicated beef up of 50-75 downtown only police officers round the clock to make poeple feel safe around downotwn with 100 additional private security officers for malls, public buildings ect... 2) a dedicated massive property tax cut or a 5 year property tax exemption for starting a business downtown similar to what Fargo did 8 years ago which is in the red river revitalization article in this forum. 3) true rapid transit system so Winnipegers can travel quickly and efficienty to visit or live downtown. I don't hate downtown it just breaks my heart to see what has happened to her. I won't move downtown just because it's downtown it has to improve first before most people will give it a try.


Let me put it simply: you are contributing to the problem, not the solution.

Why is Montreal's downtown nice? Because people live there. Because they have a history and a culture of vibrancy and living that way. Because they have chosen to make their city that way. What have you chosen?

Stop being a sheep. Stop shopping at the shitty suburban stores. Stop eating at chain restaurants. Stop depending on your automobile. Stop waiting for governments to change and start demanding it. Stop electing small minded idiots to city hall. Stop reading Tom Brodbeck. Stop spending 90% of your income in the suburbs (where the majority is then being whisked away to Toronto or New York or Hong Kong anyways.) Spend your money where it affects change and stop waiting for someone else to take the lead, because there are a bunch of us are already leading. Yeah, Winnipeg has had a downturn that has lasted 50 years -- but guess what, you can pin most of downtown's demise on suburban expansion. Where do you live? Exactly. (And don't worry, I know your area all-too-well. Grew up in Fort Richmond, and went to FRC.) How easy it is for you to do your long daily commute down Pembina and then throw lobs at downtown from afar wondering why its in the shape its in.

I walk down Portage Avenue every single day, at all hours. I rent space in a building near the MTS Centre. I live within walking distance.
Life downtown is wonderful. You couldn't pay me enough to ever move back to the south end.

Your call for tax cuts is bullshit. You don't need 'em. If I don't need 'em, you don't need 'em. What you need is to stop looking at our city with eyes of fear, judgement and segregation. You need to start seeing the opportunity for change.

Stop complaining and start doing something to make this city a better place.

And lastly, read the second blog on this site. (http://hick-belt-hilton.blogspot.com/)

[1ajs]

certan street people i wlll never speak to period... i know their stories and and have watched them go into the spiral and they just have no respect for anyone so i just ignore them others i will glady sit and talk with them hell one of the ones with one leg in a wheel chare is my best friends uncle....

[DAVEinEDMONTON]

I have to disagree Montreal's downtown is a 1000 times nicer than winnipeg's, Edmonton's is fairly nice, Calgary's is fine, Ottawa's is good. Yes every major city's downtown in Canada has it's rough area's but Winnipeg's has been ravaged by a slow progressing cancer on it's downtown. Winnipeg's downtown has some great pockets that I enjoy ie:The exchange, the forks but it's TRUE HEART Portage and Main have slowly dwindled to streets ravaged with native poverty, public urination,ravage panhandling,perverts(last time I was at portage place a guy was washing his balls in the sink)muggings in front of portage place all the time. Drug deals abound even in plain sight in daylight during lunch hour in front of air canada building. The only development that does occur on portage is more uneeded government buildings. If I and many more people were to either set up shop or move to downtown it would require 3 things 1) a dedicated beef up of 50-75 downtown only police officers round the clock to make poeple feel safe around downotwn with 100 additional private security officers for malls, public buildings ect... 2) a dedicated massive property tax cut or a 5 year property tax exemption for starting a business downtown similar to what Fargo did 8 years ago which is in the red river revitalization article in this forum. 3) true rapid transit system so Winnipegers can travel quickly and efficienty to visit or live downtown. I don't hate downtown it just breaks my heart to see what has happened to her. I won't move downtown just because it's downtown it has to improve first before most people will give it a try.

I think you have some good points on what needs to be done, however, the underlying issue behind most of your suggestions is the necessary political will of Winnipeg's city council to fund all those initatives long term to regain the majority of Winnipeggers faith and trust back into their downtown. If city council acted on your suggestions, developers most likely would follow suit and that would lead to more potential downtown retail and more people living downtown as well. Unfortunately, it will not happen overnight...

[ILYR]

And lastly, read the second blog on this site. (http://hick-belt-hilton.blogspot.com/)

This is a great picture

http://www.ualberta.ca/~drogge/images/carvsbus.jpg

Really shows the impact of buses compared to SOV's (single occupant vehicles)
From http://hick-belt-hilton.blogspot.com/

[1ajs]

%^%&$%$ transik strike :S posible ^%#^%#^

[jimj_wpg]

%^%&$%$ transit strike :S possible ^%#^%#^

Corrected spelling...

If you live close to the downtown and if you work downtown then you can still walk or bike (weather permitting) until the strike is OVER.

I'm hoping for a strike. Maybe it will knock some sense into transt for a few decades.

[1ajs]

Corrected spelling...

If you live close to the downtown and if you work downtown then you can still walk or bike (weather permitting) until the strike is OVER.

I'm hoping for a strike. Maybe it will knock some sense into transt for a few decades.

kinda hard when you gota commute to the rrc campus out in the boonies

[vid]

Corrected spelling...

If you live close to the downtown and if you work downtown then you can still walk or bike (weather permitting) until the strike is OVER.

I'm hoping for a strike. Maybe it will knock some sense into transt for a few decades.

No. I'll tell you what happened after our strike: Starting as soon as it is over, bus drivers will be able to wear what they want, listen to loud radios, talk on cell phones while driving, take breaks whenever they want, treat customers like shit and get a 10% pay increase. When all is said and done they will be making about 65% more than police. Oh, and ridership will go down.

At least that is what happened here.

[Kinguni]

%^%&$%$ transik strike :S posible ^%#^%#^

Wouldn't count on it. There's only one major issue in the way of an agreement. They want to penalize drivers who take more than 6 days off in a year (sick, bereavement, family days, etc.). Assuming a 7.5 hour work day, days 7 through 10 off in a year would see 40 hours of pay taken away. That's right, take away more pay than you would have earned had you worked. Only they wouldn't hit the driver with the loss until just before Christmas, taking away from the money paid to all drivers in lieu of the rest breaks they don't get.

Most civic employees get up to 15 paid sick days in a year , but bus drivers under that plan, assuming they used 10 of those sick days in year, would be penalized almost 9 days pay.

Transit has a high rate of absenteeism and this was their idea of how to combat it in a workplace where morale is already low. If they listen to the employees for a change they'd be sure to find ways to fix the problem in ways that are beneficial to both sides, but as is typical of Transit management they want to get results by threatening punishment, further beating morale into the ground.

Anyways, that's the one main issue that caused the rejection of the preliminary tentative agreement. The were some other issues with it, but that's the one that got it voted down.

[1ajs]

manigment needs to get outa the office.........

[The Jabroni]

manigment needs to get outa the office.........

They need out... big time!

[Kinguni]

Oh, contrary to rumours, the union and the City are meeting for negotiations next week at the City's request.

[1ajs]

o good!

[Kinguni]

June 14, 2008

Hybrids fail to make jump into era of green transit

By ROSS ROMANIUK, SUN MEDIA

Last February, Mayor Sam Katz proudly ushered in the diesel-electric articulated buses. (C. Procaylo/Sun Media files)

Winnipeg Transit's efforts to go green with long, so-called "bendy" buses partially powered by electricity appear to have crashed.

The introduction of 20 of the so-called articulated, approximately 60-foot-long diesel-electric hybrid buses for the city fleet is poised to be scuttled because of poor performance during a recent trial run.

Fuel consumption

City spokeswoman Pam Sveinson confirmed yesterday that Winnipeg Transit's purchase of the score of vehicles from local manufacturer New Flyer Industries -- each at a price of about $1 million -- is uncertain, mainly because of problems with the model's fuel consumption.

"The concerns are related to efficiencies in terms of fuel savings and reduced emissions," she said, adding the city is looking at alternatives.

More details will be revealed in coming weeks, she added, though a source close to the talks between Transit and New Flyer suggested the city is likely feeling pressure to buy other forms of buses from the company because of a previous agreement between the two sides.


"I think they're working something out, because there was an intent to purchase. I don't think they can just walk away from that. I think they'll get something else," the source said.

The source pointed to the performance of electric power in cold weather as among the difficulties with the hybrids' engines.

The city conducted a five-month trial involving one hybrid last December. The buses are heavily used in several North American cities and highly touted by advocates of a local rapid transit system.

At a media event for the pilot project with provincial and federal officials in mid-December, Mayor Sam Katz said he was "ecstatic that the wheels of the diesel-electric hybrid articulated test bus have hit the streets of Winnipeg."

It was projected that 20 of the buses be on local streets by the spring of 2009.

Katz was not made available to comment yesterday.

Flexible connections

New Flyer, which has distributed such articulated buses -- using flexible connections to join two parts of the vehicles -- to several transit systems across the continent, also refused to confirm the roadblock.

"We tend not to discuss matters with our customers in the media," said company spokesman Glenn Asham. "We'll let the city make that confirmation if they so choose to."

Coun. Russ Wyatt (Transcona) said maintaining heat in the trial bus was also difficult, adding the city has no choice but to back away from the buses if they don't work well.

"It would be irresponsible to spend $20 million on something that has problems," he said. "The last thing we want to do is buy something that doesn't work properly."

[Pootkao]

I was talking with a friend who's in management at Transit about the bendy hybrid busses.

He said they had lots of trouble with warm hear circulation and heating during winter, that the engines had to work so hard to heat the bus (which still wasn't satisfactory) that the fuel consumption skyrocketed.

[Andy6]

I was talking with a friend who's in management at Transit about the bendy hybrid busses.

He said they had lots of trouble with warm hear circulation and heating during winter, that the engines had to work so hard to heat the bus (which still wasn't satisfactory) that the fuel consumption skyrocketed.

That's exactly what is likely to happen with any rapid transit coaches the city could conceivably buy. None of them are made for Winnipeg winters and they will all need to be re-engineered specially for the city at great cost. If they would just buy normal buses, keep them in good repair and put any extra money into buying more of them and building some indoor waiting areas, that would make sense to me. Winnipeg is never going to be the rapid transit city, but it could be the city where on major streets you're never more than 5-6 minutes from catching a nice, clean bus that has the best available climate control and environmental technology.

[The Jabroni]

I think New Flyer would learn from this by doing some more research and find a way to suit their "bendy" buses for our climate. I mean, they do have the technology and resources. It's only a matter of time on how to resolve those issues and then conceive a solution to those problems. If a customer wants what exactly what they need, then New Flyer should deliver on those request.

Don't get me wrong. I think New Flyer is a good company. What I'm saying is, New Flyer might learn from this so that they can make better buses in the future.

[fengshui]

That's exactly what is likely to happen with any rapid transit coaches the city could conceivably buy. None of them are made for Winnipeg winters and they will all need to be re-engineered specially for the city at great cost.

I think this is more a reflection on New Flyer not getting it right the first time (not unexpected either, these hybrid units are quite complex and they are one of the first to market). Volvo hasn't yet introduced their hybrid, it is coming in 2009 (http://www.volvo.com/bus/global/en-gb/volvogroup/Environment/going+greener/hybrid/). Volvo being based in Sweden, there is a good chance it will have been engineered for cold weather.

Of course, if we were talking rail rapid transit, there are so many other northern cities that run transit and rapid transit systems outside. Places like Helsinki, Moscow, Oslo, Stockholm, St. Petersburg, etc (http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/euromet.htm).

[Andy6]

I think this is more a reflection on New Flyer not getting it right the first time (not unexpected either, these hybrid units are quite complex and they are one of the first to market). Volvo hasn't yet introduced their hybrid, it is coming in 2009 (http://www.volvo.com/bus/global/en-gb/volvogroup/Environment/going+greener/hybrid/). Volvo being based in Sweden, there is a good chance it will have been engineered for cold weather.

Of course, if we were talking rail rapid transit, there are so many other northern cities that run transit and rapid transit systems outside. Places like Helsinki, Moscow, Oslo, Stockholm, St. Petersburg, etc (http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/euromet.htm).

The winter climate of places like Helsinki, Oslo and Stockholm is nothing like Winnipeg's. Stockholm's climate is more like Vancouver's. I don't even think Moscow is quite as cold in the winter as Winnipeg is, but I'll let some of you eager beavers ferret out the stats on that (to mix my animal metaphors).

[Greco Roman]

Climate is no excuse why Winnipeg shouldn't get an LRT system.

Edmonton has LRT, and has a winter climate similar to Winnipeg, and it works just fine. There seems to be a ton of those with every little excuse why Winnipeg "can't" or "shouldn't" implement rapid transit, yet smaller cities such as Saskatoon, Spokane and KW are already preparing for the future developing plans to build rapid transit.

There will always be those that poo-poo the idea for whatever reason trying to keep the city in the darkages as a "small centre", but I hold the faith that eventually Winnipeg will jump into the 21th century.

It's time for change, and Winnipeg deserves the best!

[1ajs]

winnipeg should spend the money on street cars and have the lrt as express routes....

[Only The Lonely..]

Climate is no excuse why Winnipeg shouldn't get an LRT system.

Edmonton has LRT, and has a winter climate similar to Winnipeg, and it works just fine. There seems to be a ton of those with every little excuse why Winnipeg "can't" or "shouldn't" implement rapid transit, yet smaller cities such as Saskatoon, Spokane and KW are already preparing for the future developing plans to build rapid transit.

There will always be those that poo-poo the idea for whatever reason trying to keep the city in the darkages as a "small centre", but I hold the faith that eventually Winnipeg will jump into the 21th century.

It's time for change, and Winnipeg deserves the best!

Amen!

[viperred88]

Hey I know that city planning student. Anyway I hope more programs for densifying neighborhoods in and around downtown into rich urban environments that will help implement the first leg of rapid transit. One would hope lrt/subway would start from the heart of downtown and work outwards. And please lets not do BRT as our only mode of rapid transit. Perhaps let BRT be a feeder to the lrt.


_______________
PERSPECTIVE: The bus stops here
Deadline nears on rapid-transit decision
By: Bartley Kives / Winnipeg Free Press

Updated: June 15 at 11:54 AM CDT

Print Article E-mail Article Winnipeg's political leaders have just over a month to decide whether rapid transit will be part of the city's future.

Mayor Sam Katz has given himself a July 18 deadline to announce how he and Premier Gary Doer plan to spend $17.9 million worth of federal transportation dollars.

In March, Ottawa handed Manitoba the $17.9-million kitty with no strings attached, provided the cash gets spent on alternative forms of transportation.

Ever since, the mayor and the premier have been talking behind closed doors about the cash, which could be used to upgrade Winnipeg Transit, build new bicycle and walking paths - or start building the southwest Winnipeg bus rapid transit corridor that has been the biggest albatross around Katz's neck since he was first elected four years ago.

Winnipeggers who pay attention to transit know the back-story: One of Katz's first acts as mayor was cancelling a BRT corridor and persuading the federal Liberals to divert $43 million of gasoline-tax money to community centres.

Late in 2004, Katz placed Transcona Coun. Russ Wyatt in charge of a rapid transit task force that eventually wound up recommending the creation of - wait for it - a bus rapid transit corridor.

But the idea has languished on the back burner at city hall, revived only by the rising price of oil and subsequent rising interest in alternative modes of transportation on the part of politicians and voters alike. City council has upped spending on bike trails from $200,000 in 2006 to $3.2 million this year and has also started socking away $2.7 million toward a rapid-transit system.

On Broadway, Doer has also been lukewarm to the notion of public transit. But that was before the province pledged to meet the original Kyoto targets by cutting Manitoba's greenhouse gas emissions by three megatonnes over the next four years.

Doer now acknowledges rapid transit could help catapult Manitoba toward Kyoto compliance, but remains cagey about his priority list for the federal transit cash.

"Transit itself, a person who takes the car too much, is helpful toward the Kyoto target," said Doer, admitting only that the city and province would like to spend the federal kitty on a combination of big-ticket items and smaller projects.


It's unclear whether the province will add more of its own cash to the $17.9 million pledged by Ottawa. But even if Doer doubles up on the federal contribution, $35.8 million won't buy Winnipeg a BRT corridor.

The first leg of a busway from downtown to Jubilee Avenue will cost an estimated $70 million. The city would have to borrow millions to pay for the entire line, and borrowing isn't a popular practice at city hall these days.

"A couple of decades ago, the city got into trouble because all we did was borrow money. The smartest thing we did was stop and we've reduced our debt significantly. There is more money available to us today as a result of the fact we aren't servicing major debt," Katz said.

The mayor said it's possible Winnipeg could borrow money to pay for "a project that is going to have a phenomenal economic, positive impact" on the city, but would not say whether rapid transit would constitute such a project.

However, he did entertain the possibility of a new floodway-like authority to oversee transit in Winnipeg and the surrounding capital region, as the city's transportation needs are intertwined with those of communities such as Selkirk, St. Andrews and East St. Paul.

The bottom line is that Katz and Doer really have only two choices: Use all or part of the federal transportation cash as seed money for some form of big, bold transit initiative, or divide the kitty into smaller pots of money and spend it on a variety of less ambitious projects.

Both strategies have pros and cons, as the mayor and premier must balance fiscal conservatism, environmentalism and even parochial ward and riding concerns.

Their decision is coming within 33 days, when city council shuts down for the summer. In the meantime, here's what Katz and Doer are considering:


BUS RAPID TRANSIT


The plan: A dedicated bus corridor from downtown Winnipeg to the University of Manitoba, roughly parallel to Pembina Highway.

The price tag: Approximately $70 million to build one leg of the corridor, from downtown to Jubilee Avenue. Likely more than $150 million to build the entire line.

Pros: Both the Rapid Transit Task Force (2005) and Direction To The Future (2000) identified the southwest bus corridor as Winnipeg's No. 1 transit priority, given the volume of vehicle and bus traffic along Pembina Highway. A bike path would be built alongside the busway. And if the corridor goes all the way to the U of M, a spur line to Waverley West could take some of the transportation pressure off Kenaston Boulevard.

Cons: Even if the province matches the federal money, Winnipeg would still have to borrow to complete the line. People who don't live in southwest Winnipeg may resent the spending. And critics will argue the line will only improve transit service, not increase the number of people who use public transit.


CONVENTIONAL TRANSIT


The plan: Upgrade existing Winnipeg Transit infrastructure by buying more buses, installing user-friendly transit technology and making on-street improvements such as more diamond lanes and better stations - all of which are already part of a six-year city plan that's taking too long to implement.

The price tag: As much or as little as the city and province want to spend, on top of the $142-million Winnipeg Transit upgrade announced in 2006.

Pros: It's easy to top up or augment a Winnipeg Transit upgrade that's already in progress, and no borrowing is required.

Cons: Critics will argue the city and province squandered an opportunity to do something much more bold with the $17.9-million gift from the federal government.


BIKE TRAILS


The plan: More bicycle and pedestrian commuter paths in Winnipeg.

The price tag: Again, as much or as little as the Doer and Katz want to spend, on top of the city's $3.2-million annual budget for active-transportation corridors.

Pros: Politicians get a lot of bang for their infrastructure buck when they build bike trails, which are relatively cheap, compared to roads and bridges. Commuter trails also reduce congestion on roads, assuming they're built in the right place. And they satisfy a trio of converging concerns: the rising price of gas, the health benefits of self-propelled commuting and the environmental benefits of leaving cars at home.

Cons: Transit advocates will revolt if the city and province blow the entire $17.9-million transportation kitty on bike trails, given the opportunity to use the cash as seed money for something bigger and bolder. As well, only a minority of Winnipeg commuters walk or bike to work or school - and people with mobility issues will benefit little from trail upgrades.


LIGHT RAIL TRANSIT


The plan: A light-rail corridor from downtown Winnipeg to the University of Manitoba.

The price tag: Unknown, but assumed to be upwards of $500 million.

Pros: Trains are sexier than bus corridors, and could attract more riders. Mayor Sam Katz likes the idea of LRT, although he does not believe Winnipeg can afford it. However, busways can always be converted to LRT lines.

Cons: Given the price and the lack of density in Winnipeg, nobody in power is seriously considering this option.

bartley.kives@freepress.mb.ca

-- With files from Mary Agnes Welch


BRT boon to cyclists
Curt Hull

Bus rapid transit in Winnipeg would make my cycle commute easier. If you think the two have nothing to do with each other -- read on.

I use my bike as my main mode of transportation. How could rapid transit benefit me?

As we deal with higher gas prices and get serious about combating climate change, more people will ride their bicycles. A lot more people will be able to make this choice once we have bike routes to work or shopping that are interconnected throughout the city, efficient and safe -- for many that means segregated from traffic.

Rapid transit has the potential to produce part of the network of bicycle routes we need. The 2005 Rapid Transit Task Force Report recommends "active transportation commuter paths be integrated into dedicated busways and, where possible, into on-street improvements." This means the busway close to Pembina Highway would include a bikeway.

This bikeway would overcome some of Winnipeg cyclists' biggest choke-point issues. Cyclists usually choose routes that are as direct and comfortable as possible. This often means residential streets. But at bridges, underpasses and major intersections, we have no choice but to deal with traffic. Those are choke points. The first leg of the proposed BRT, the rapid transit corridor proposed for Pembina, would get us around or over the Red River, Confusion Corner, the south Osborne underpass and the Jubilee underpass.

Anyone who has been caught at a bridge, an underpass or Confusion Corner at rush hour understands why these are called choke points.

I don't commute down Pembina, so what good is that to me?

I hope there will be access points onto the bikeway so I can use a portion of it. But even if there are not, as long as Winnipeggers use the rapid transit system and people use the bikeways, we will reduce the amount of car traffic, especially downtown.


Enticing youth with transit
Ezra Bridgman

Developing a bus rapid transit system would -- apart from helping the environment and revitalizing downtown -- be a great help to Winnipeg's youth and students, in the view of this high school student.

Traditionally, youth rely on public transit much more than their elders, due to lower incomes. Biking is a viable option for youth, but it can be a frustrating and dirty ordeal in winter.

Having a better system encourages youth to use the many resources available downtown, get involved with the city's youth programs and enjoy more freedom.

From a student perspective, BRT would provide that essential transportation to school or university, making access to the higher education more efficient and enjoyable. For me, the difficulty in getting to the University of Manitoba was a deciding factor in choosing the University of Winnipeg.

A final point in favour of BRT for Winnipeg is the desirability it adds. Young people face the difficult decision of whether to stay in Winnipeg or move away. It is in all our best interests to attract and keep youth here while also attracting others from around the world. To do that, Winnipeg must be a desirable city. Having a rapid transit system won't always be a determining factor in enticing youth to stay, but it does put Winnipeg on par with other modern cities.


Quiet joys of the bus
Stephanie Voyce

Many consider bus riding an unpleasant and aggravating experience. I disagree.
Picture this: You're running late on a Monday morning. You could be sitting in traffic on Pembina Highway, cursing under your breath as you inch forward. Or you could be sitting on the bus, catching up on some reading. You've just gained half an hour of down time!


Being on a bus forces you into a place we rarely find ourselves in this go-go-go society. How many of us are guilty of multi-tasking just about every moment of our waking hours? But the bus gives us the liberty of doing nothing if we wish.

Your mind can transition from the stresses of work or school to a place of calm and introspection. It's that healthy mind space where we can release the struggles of the day and prepare for the tasks and opportunities ahead.

But the bus isn't just some meditative vessel. It can also be quite the social hub. For those who like to people-watch, it is an opportunity extraordinaire. Generally speaking, it is rude to stare at strangers, but somehow it's OK on the bus. There's an unwritten rule that makes it OK to watch the little girl in front of you making finger angels on the frozen bus windows, even to sneak a smile or two at her.

So as we continue to contemplate bus rapid transit for our city, let's not forget the quiet joys of bus travel. It is one of those hidden secrets of bus riders. For $2.25, maybe it's time to break out of the segregated space of our cars. Who knows? There might actually be some relaxation and pleasant human interaction to be found in it.


Too busy to bus
Marli Sakiyama

I live an active lifestyle. I am a master's of city planning student at the University of Manitoba, an intern at the West End Business Improvement Zone, a dance teacher in two different suburbs, a volunteer all over the city and a frequenter of West End and downtown restaurants and shops.

With my busy schedule, I need transportation that gets me from A to B to C in one day. What is bus rapid transit (BRT) worth to me? BRT can help me maintain that busy schedule and have an environmentally sustainable lifestyle.

When I lived with my parents in Charleswood, taking the bus was not a realistic option. Service was slow, sporadic and a few transfers were needed to get anywhere. A car was the best mode of transportation.

Now that I live in Crescentwood, transit is a better option. During school months, the bus ride takes about 45 minutes.

However, when I need to go to school, work and volunteer all in one day, that's a problem. West End BIZ is in one direction, teaching is in two separate directions and volunteering is all over the map. I cannot ride my bike all over Winnipeg, as there is a lack of bike paths.

On those days, I drive my Hyundai Accent (which takes $50 to fill at 29 miles per gallon). But, like other car owners, I am concerned about rising gas prices and environmental sustainability.

When I think of the wise words of Gandhi, "Be the change you want to see in the world," I am disappointed that I must drive a car as my main method of transportation. I want to change my lifestyle, and I ask myself how? BRT can help me and others lead a more sustainable lifestyle.


Bring back the buzz
Craig Medwyduk

As a kid, I remember taking the bus downtown from my home in Charleswood.
Downtown was the hub for young people. We would get on the bus for the hour-long trip, go to the arcade, catch a movie, listen to records, then make the trip back home.


As the years went by, downtown changed, becoming less and less like the place I remember. And Winnipeg's urban sprawl makes the trip from the suburbs tedious. Downtown businesses and restaurants feel it, and the result can be measured in closed storefronts.

You seldom hear anyone talk about the experience I had, coming downtown to hang out for the day. But still, many of us remember what downtown was and what it still could -- and should -- be.

I believe in downtown. I know it can come back. And I believe it's already begun to.

That's a big part of why we moved our studio, Guppy Graphic Design, to Graham Avenue in 2005. We love it here. Our downtown location helped us start a clothing shop in our studio. We see people from every walk of life, and we get to enjoy the buzz of being in the heart of the city. That urban culture I loved as a kid is still alive; we just need to give it a kick-start.

People make choices about where they shop and play based on key issues: convenience, speed of delivery, parking, fuel costs and safety. Rapid transit addresses all that.

Winnipeg needs to be more progressive; right now, we are behind on transportation. So many other cities across North America have implemented rapid transit with roaring success. It's time for Winnipeg to get moving with rapid transit.


Unclog the commute
Calvin Polet

I commute by car regularly to my job downtown from my home in the suburbs. I often ride my bicycle to work in the summer, and I use the bus to get to work maybe 10 times a year, but most of the time I drive. I intend to continue that drive, and the creation of a bus rapid transit, or BRT, system will do little to get me to ride the bus to work.

Yet I am a strong supporter of a BRT system for Winnipeg. So, what's in it for me?

Apart from cleaner air, fewer greenhouse gas emissions, development of a compact urban form that consistently develops alongside rapid transit systems, the statement of progress developing such a system makes about our city and the potential boon for our bus manufacturing sector, the creation of a BRT system means an easier commute for me.

If our transit system receives anywhere near the increased ridership experienced by other municipalities that have installed BRT, there will be a demonstrable impact on the number of cars and trucks on the road.

I know critics say Winnipeggers won't change their driving habits. I don't believe that, but let's assume for a moment that unreasonable assumption is correct. The fact remains that removing most of the buses from the road to the dedicated BRT road will ease traffic flow, thus improving my commute.

If we do not create a BRT system, with the planned development of the next few years, Pembina Highway will become a parking lot.


Freeing time for family
Adnan Mirza

There are better ways to spend time than driving a commute, especially for this father who lives in River Heights.

A few years ago, I worked in Chicago for two months. I spent more than three hours a day commuting. The time I spent looking for a parking spot and walking to my destination was frustrating. Taking the transit system was far more efficient. More importantly, it gave me the chance to get work done on my way to and from work. By the time I got home, I could spend all my time with my family.

Likewise, when I lived in Vancouver, taking the SkyTrain was by far the most cost-effective and convenient way to travel. I got to work more quickly and with much less stress. It took half the time to reach downtown Vancouver by SkyTrain.

I enjoy the chance to read the morning paper on my way to work or catch up on e-mail so I can dive right into my work projects when I get to the office. I also enjoy not having to worry about a parking spot when I am on my way to a Bombers game or, more importantly, my son's soccer game. I wouldn't want to miss a great play.

All our lives can be made better if the hours that might be otherwise spent in our cars are instead spent attending a child's hockey game, making appointments or being with our families.

I am all for a rapid transit system in our city.

[Greco Roman]

I am literally praying to God that Winnipeg steps up to the LRT plate and delivers. Again, enough with the excuses why we "can't"; it's that stupid backwards Winnipeg mentality that really inhibits the potential of this city.

[jimj_wpg]

I spotted a new New Flyer WT bus # 702 around 11.30 AM today.

It's got a GM RTS-like front-end.

Nicer than the square boxes Winnipeg's been getting in the past 8 years.

Does anyone know how many we're supposed to get? Usually it's in lots of 30 at a time.

[Kinguni]

4 on the road so far, 33 in all. Mechanically the same as the last batch, with the addition (lack of removal?) of air conditioning.

[vid]

Thunder Bay's recent buses are air conditioned as well. It must have become cheaper.

I don't think they would purposely remove air conditioning.

[1ajs]

20 of them
http://www.pointdouglas.com/plugins/p17_image_gallery/images/1266.jpg

[Pootkao]

They have a friendly smile.

[vid]

The new Novabuses look surprised. The old ones looked like they were in a state of orgasmic glee. I hate them.

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/3935/img3136jq6.jpg
One of Thunder Bay's newest buses, taken by this guy (http://www.ygtransit.fotopic.net/).

It's a big improvement on the old Newflyers though. Welcome to the 1990s, Newflyer! We can make vehicles with curves now!

[MooseJets]

That's one happy bus!

[Greco Roman]

That's one happy bus!

Now if we could only one happy LRT train gliding down Winnipeg's new rapid transit system.............................

[The Jabroni]

20 of them
http://www.pointdouglas.com/plugins/p17_image_gallery/images/1266.jpg

I thought it was around 33 of the 40 ft. buses, and 20 of the 60 ft. articulated buses (in which that chance of getting those buses now are slim to none). :shrug:

Anyways, I'm glad to see those new buses on the road. New Flyer (or Winnipeg Transit) is getting nicer looking buses now. It's too bad they stopped marketing/building the Invero buses. They were nice too, but I heard so many problems about them.

[wags_in_the_peg]

Transit fails 'bendy bus' on winter road test, emissions standards
By: Bartley Kives

Updated: June 17 at 12:25 AM CDT

Print Article E-mail Article Winnipeg Transit is looking for a new extra-long ride after its prototype "bendy bus" failed winter road tests.

Transit had been planning to buy 20 diesel-electric hybrid articulated buses at a cost of $27 million since February 2006, when the public utility unveiled a six-year, $142-million upgrade.

But the order will soon be cancelled because a prototype delivered by manufacturer New Flyer did not prove to be as energy-efficient as the city expected.

Now, Mayor Sam Katz wants Winnipeg Transit to find some form of new ride with far more seats than conventional low-floor buses.

"I like the idea of having longer buses that can move more people," Katz said Monday.

Although the mayor said he was disappointed Winnipeg's first articulated bus failed to be as green as transit officials had hoped, the utility is already looking at other forms of technology. And longer buses are still on top of the list.

The utility is also in the midst of purchasing 144 new conventional buses over the course of six years at a total cost of $65 million.

Articulated buses are used in several North American cities, including Ottawa, which is almost as cold as Winnipeg during the winter and usually endures much more snow.

But the model tested here during the past winter failed to save as much fuel as Winnipeg Transit expected, city spokeswoman Pam Sveinson said.

Greenhouse gas emissions also proved to be higher than expected, defeating the purpose of spending more city money on an energy-efficient vehicle.Winnipeg Transit plans to release more details about its bendy-bus road test before council breaks for the summer.

During the same time frame, Katz and Manitoba Premier Gary Doer plan to make a decision regarding how to spend a $17.9 million federal kitty earmarked for alternative transportation.

Katz said it is unlikely the city will funnel the $27 million earmarked for diesel-electric hybrids into a bus rapid transit system.

"If we don't get these type of buses, we still need more buses," he said, noting Winnipeg Transit has no choice but to upgrade its fleet.

bartley.kives@freepress.mb.ca

[viperred88]

when I was on that bus a couiple of times I found it conered quite nicely in the winter especially at the tight intersection of vaugh and graham.

anyhow that is not the issue the industry has not made a real fuel efficient engines for class 3 to class 1 vehicles, so why don't we already have a skytrain/subway system that runs on our cheap hydro. Partner up with MB hydro and the province and get this baby going already.

________________________________________________________________

Transit fails 'bendy bus' on winter road test, emissions standards
By: Bartley Kives

Updated: June 17 at 12:25 AM CDT

Print Article E-mail Article Winnipeg Transit is looking for a new extra-long ride after its prototype "bendy bus" failed winter road tests.

Transit had been planning to buy 20 diesel-electric hybrid articulated buses at a cost of $27 million since February 2006, when the public utility unveiled a six-year, $142-million upgrade.

But the order will soon be cancelled because a prototype delivered by manufacturer New Flyer did not prove to be as energy-efficient as the city expected.

Now, Mayor Sam Katz wants Winnipeg Transit to find some form of new ride with far more seats than conventional low-floor buses.

"I like the idea of having longer buses that can move more people," Katz said Monday.

Although the mayor said he was disappointed Winnipeg's first articulated bus failed to be as green as transit officials had hoped, the utility is already looking at other forms of technology. And longer buses are still on top of the list.

The utility is also in the midst of purchasing 144 new conventional buses over the course of six years at a total cost of $65 million.

Articulated buses are used in several North American cities, including Ottawa, which is almost as cold as Winnipeg during the winter and usually endures much more snow.

But the model tested here during the past winter failed to save as much fuel as Winnipeg Transit expected, city spokeswoman Pam Sveinson said.

Greenhouse gas emissions also proved to be higher than expected, defeating the purpose of spending more city money on an energy-efficient vehicle.Winnipeg Transit plans to release more details about its bendy-bus road test before council breaks for the summer.

During the same time frame, Katz and Manitoba Premier Gary Doer plan to make a decision regarding how to spend a $17.9 million federal kitty earmarked for alternative transportation.

Katz said it is unlikely the city will funnel the $27 million earmarked for diesel-electric hybrids into a bus rapid transit system.

"If we don't get these type of buses, we still need more buses," he said, noting Winnipeg Transit has no choice but to upgrade its fleet.

bartley.kives@freepress.mb.ca

[jimj_wpg]

Another reason to put LRT rapid transit trains underground is that if you have them running at grade they can cross paths with vehicles who are oblivious to the train being there.

Houston, we have a problem:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV2rdGX4JYc

[The Jabroni]

Another reason to put LRT rapid transit trains underground is that if you have them running at grade they can cross paths with vehicles who are oblivious to the train being there.

Houston, we have a problem:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV2rdGX4JYc

Ouch. Bad planning to begin with.

Then again, once it's built, the rules associated to that system must be be followed. There were arrows marked on the road clearly marking turning towards the rail (left hand turns) are prohibited. Clearly the drivers failed to see the signage, and what do they get? A smack upside the head with a train!! With that, those people get no sympathy from me because they fail to pay attention! In that case, they deserved to get hit by that train!

Which leads back to isolating rapid transit systems from road vehicles as much as possible in the first place.

[Aylmer]

Or having people obey signing.

Keep the loonies of the road!
(that's why I don't drive!)

:)