Coffee lovers: Starbucks or Tim Hortons? [Archive]

Only The Lonely..

Mar 10, 2007, 8:01 AM

Every time I walk past a Tim Horton's and see the ridiculous lineup I get angry at the obscene number of people that gladly, gleefully chose to spend their money there.

I know its disgusting. I've never even really tried Tim Hortons doughnuts or coffee. However, the fact remains that each restaraunt is a Zoo, it's easy to see why people avoid the place.

Starbucks, Sals, Robins Doughnuts and even Second Cup have a much more relaxing atomisphere, at least in Winnipeg.

Ottawade

Mar 10, 2007, 8:05 AM

I don't understand what all the hoopla about Starbuck's is about really. People mistake making coffee really strong for coffee with good flavor. I can't say I have tried every last flavor but of the ones I have tried I would probably rate Tim's higher up.

Either way there is better if you live in a city of any decent size. Here in Ottawa there are bridgehead coffee shops and although probably a bit pricey if you really drink it by the liter, neither of the big chains can stand up to it. Plus it's fair trade/organic (no, the fair trade isn't what makes it taste better :P ). I'll take a pound of Mexican bridgehead over anything starbucks has...:banana:

Only The Lonely..

Mar 10, 2007, 8:07 AM

I can't help but to notice the fact that Tim's is so much more popular in Ontario. Do people hate Tim's because its an Ontario thing or because their restaurant sucks?

Just curious..

Xelebes

Mar 10, 2007, 8:15 AM

I think the thing that throws people off of Starbucks is the fact that you can't order a black coffee - you have to almost jump through hoops to order the coffee. That's the largest complaint I hear.

PErsonally, I prefer Second Cup - mostly because of the convenience. There's 3 Second Cups within 2 km of where I live but no Timmies nor Starbucks until 5 km out.

mersar

Mar 10, 2007, 10:37 AM

If its more popular in ON then it is here, I certainly don't want to visit any tim's out there. It's bad enough here when you have to wait in a 30 person line for coffee at 9am on a Saturday morning in Cochrane. Or in a 15 car drive-thru line up for that matter.

vid

Mar 10, 2007, 10:53 AM

Robins has THE BEST donuts. They're deep fried! Unhealthy, but that's how they're supposed to be made goddammit! And they're more coffee-shopish than Tim Hortons, none of that Earth-Toney Lifestyle crap. And looking at the rest of the menu, Robin's sandwiches focus more on the filling than the bread, while Tim's is the other way around, and their sandwiches are a good two dollars cheaper. Robin's' hot chocolate is also chocolatier.

I've only had Starbucks hot chocolate once, and it was very bitter and left a terrible after taste, but I'm sure it was just a bad brew. Most coffee shops get off on rocky starts while they're breaking in new equipment. Outside of that and the occasional cookie or fruit juice I haven't had much from Starbucks.

We don't have any of the other places listed, but there are no less than two dozen little coffee houses in town (New one opening every month for the last year it seems) and they're probably better, unlike the other places, they're locally oriented.

The way I see it, people only go to Tim Hortons en masse because the commercials tell them it's the patriotic thing to do, and that's sickening.

PhilippeMtl

Mar 10, 2007, 1:22 PM

Every time I walk past a Tim Horton's and see the ridiculous lineup I get angry at the obscene number of people that gladly, gleefully chose to spend their money there.

Same thing here!

401_King

Mar 10, 2007, 2:48 PM

if ur a blue collar joe u go to tim hortons

if ur a high roller u go to starbucks

i'm a high roller (lol yea right) but certainly not a blue collar joe. i love starbucks (chai lattes and specialty drink stuff).

i hate going to tim hortons. i hate lineups, their food is filthy and unhealthy, the workers are slow as hell and im not a coffee drinker. they dont even accept debit card. and i hate the culture about "if ur canadian" u love tim hortons. f*** that s***! also f*** roll up the rim to win and their commercials. i'm not down with this spoonfed culture about canadians love "canadian tire" and "tim hortons". i feel special when i go into a starbucks. the service is unbeatable, the environment is relaxing and you can feel like a million bucks. i just get straight up pissed off when i go to tim hortons for the reasons above.

also a side question: has anyone ever seen a starbucks commercial before? i haven't

401_King

Mar 10, 2007, 2:59 PM

The way I see it, people only go to Tim Hortons en masse because the commercials tell them it's the patriotic thing to do, and that's sickening.

haha very true my friend.

fengshui

Mar 10, 2007, 3:20 PM

Tims or Starbucks or Second Cup or Van Houtte, none of it is even remotely palatable.

Seek out your local Italian cafes and have them make you a real espresso, or visit an Ethiopian restaurant where they roast green beans on the premises and make it the traditional way. It takes time, but worth waiting for. You'll never think about coffee the same way again.

401_King

Mar 10, 2007, 3:21 PM

Arriviste

Mar 10, 2007, 3:34 PM

I detest Tims. Especially the Brown uniforms that could make Antonella look like a frumpy mother of three.
Starbucks is delicious, but I feel morally unsure about enjoying it more than a few times a year. I kind of gave up coffee actually. To nervous naturally.

fengshui

Mar 10, 2007, 3:35 PM

They may source it from Ethiopia, but by the time it is served in your cup, it bears no resemblance to the original flavour at all. Ethiopian coffee is usually served in an earthenware pot and traditionally, Ethiopians add a pinch of salt. It has a deep, spicy, earthy flavour. Winnipeg has a great Ethiopian restaurant that makes it the traditional way, takes about 40 minutes and is made while you eat.

waterloowarrior

Mar 10, 2007, 3:47 PM

I'm a fan of Tim Horton's, even though I used to work there... it's convenient, cheap and the coffee is pretty decent. I can't stand icecaps though, especially after pouring all the sticky syrup into the machine. I am ashamed to say that I haven't been to Bridgehead yet.

Arriviste

Mar 10, 2007, 3:51 PM

/\ YOU MUST GO! Thats all I drank when I lived in Ottawa. There was one in the GLebe just down from my house. Oh god, what good memories.

keninhalifax

Mar 10, 2007, 4:26 PM

As far as I'm concerned, both Tim Horton's and Starbucks serve up rocket fuel.

/coffeeelitist.

SteelTown

Mar 10, 2007, 4:54 PM

I miss the old Tim Hortons. Used to have those spinning fridge display thing showing all the cakes and sweet stuff. I'm not a coffee and donuts person but I loved the tarts, cakes, coffee cake, italian pastry, all the bakery stuff. Now they don't do that not even birthday cakes.

Jay in Cowtown

Mar 10, 2007, 5:07 PM

As far as I'm concerned, both Tim Horton's and Starbucks serve up rocket fuel.

/coffeeelitist.

True enough... If I want just a plain old coffee, I go to Tim's... anything else its Starbucks hands down!

Only The Lonely..

Mar 10, 2007, 5:29 PM

MaThQc

Mar 10, 2007, 5:33 PM

Depends....

In Quebec City there's no Starbucks, not too many Tim Hortons or Second Cup or Van Houtte. There's a lot of independant coffee shop.

In Calgary, there's a lot of Starbucks (downtown) and Tim Hortons (suburd and airport).

In Vancouver, there's a lot of Starbucks (at every corner), not too many Tim Hortons.

bbeliko

Mar 10, 2007, 5:35 PM

my vote goes to starbucks as the coffee is actually better but tims bagels are amazing

Rusty van Reddick

Mar 10, 2007, 5:39 PM

TH serves brewed coffee (and donuts w/ other "food"); Starbucks serves espresso-based drinks (that were once decent until they got those God damned superautomatics in all their stores) as well as brewed coffee. They are completely different sorts of companies with completely different markets.

I saw in Toronto that TH there has espresso now- an email to the company inquiring about this received a reply to the effect that they were not sure if this would be rolled out nation-wide. Until then, you simply cannot compare TH to Starbucks.

After years and years of going to Starbucks and even celebrating its expansion in Canada, I have come to despise it. As I've learned more about espresso, and the art and complexity surrounding espresso-based drinks, I've learned that Starbucks bastardizes them completely. They use 32-oz milk pitchers and re-use milk and their sickening, overstretched "foam"; their espresso is nothing but blond crema (a bad sign- creme should be mottled with deep browns and reds, not be flat blond); they have taken away any semblance of expertise from their baristas and have lowered standards for the entire industry. This is very sad.

I have yet to encounter any barista at Starbucks who does latte art- in fact, most don't even know what latte art is, or the fact that it's a demonstration of perfectly stretched and foamed milk. For an example, see my avatar.

SteelTown

Mar 10, 2007, 5:42 PM

Oh yea I noticed an espresso machine at Tim Hortons in Hamilton. I think they are testing it out in selected markets. They did that with the Ice Caps, testing it out first.

vid

Mar 10, 2007, 5:47 PM

Espresso at Tim Hortons! :ack:

SteelTown

Mar 10, 2007, 5:52 PM

Even McDonald's is starting up an espresso shop, McCafe. I know a couple of people who likes McDonald's coffee.

Taller Better

Mar 10, 2007, 5:58 PM

For me, neither. I am a devoted Timothy's fan, followed by Second Cup. The one thing that Tim Hortons has that no one can touch are the Icy Capps which are basically frozen crack...you can get addicted to them soooooooo fast.

vid

Mar 10, 2007, 6:16 PM

And even Ice Caps, Robin's does THOSE better, too.

Arriviste

Mar 10, 2007, 6:36 PM

I have yet to encounter any barista at Starbucks who does latte art- in fact, most don't even know what latte art is, or the fact that it's a demonstration of perfectly stretched and foamed milk. For an example, see my avatar.

You my friend (well internet acquaintance) have given me a superb idea for a photo project. Documenting one marginalized art form through another. Do you know of many of these "latte artists"? PM me

Taller Better

Mar 10, 2007, 6:48 PM

And even Ice Caps, Robin's does THOSE better, too.

Ughh.. do you mean Robin's Donuts? The world's most leaden balls of cooked dough? I do not have fond memories of Robins.. I remember it as being a drop in centre for the homeless.

IntotheWest

Mar 10, 2007, 6:49 PM

Good Earth for "accessible" coffee in Calgary. Even Kicking Horse at Husky stations for brewed coffee over either Starbucks or TH.

Second Cup and Timothy's are just plain terrible.

Starbucks has alway had its "distinct" over-roasted taste - like Furry mentioned, I used to love as well, but have found much better places. Unfortunately, living in the burbs the only places around are Starbucks and TH...I do go to Starbuck's for a quick fix (if I don't press at home), and my wife still insists on TH being the best - so we drive through the Esso station for a "double-double".

Caffe Artigiano in Vancouver is still my favourite in the country.

Here's hoping for Phil and Sebastian's in Calgary!

vid

Mar 10, 2007, 6:53 PM

Ughh.. do you mean Robin's Donuts? The world's most leaden balls of cooked dough? I do not have fond memories of Robins.. I remember it as being a drop in centre for the homeless.

But that was where their character was! It was the place where everyone in the neighbourhood went to to smoke and talk about life!

I grew up poor so my memories of Robin's are better. I spent a lot of time there when I was young. :P

Taller Better

Mar 10, 2007, 6:56 PM

But that was where their character was! It was the place where everyone in the neighbourhood went to to smoke and talk about life!

I grew up poor so my memories of Robin's are better. I spent a lot of time there when I was young. :P

I hated their donuts.. they all tasted like stale, dense Betty Crocker cake. I don't remember what their coffee tasted like, but I remember the garish plastic laminate surfaces everywhere! LOL!

vid

Mar 10, 2007, 7:03 PM

They're donuts are great. :(

You're wrong!!!!!! LIAR!!!!!!

Tim's donuts are like soggy bland betty crocker cake, without the better crocker cake.

Taller Better

Mar 10, 2007, 7:22 PM

LOL! Mmmmmm... Robin's Eggs.. too bad I can't run out and grab a bag of those balls of lead. Nearly gives you a hernia just lifting them off the plastic laminate counter! Heeehehee!
I rarely eat donuts of any form so am not familiar with Tims, either.

vid

Mar 10, 2007, 7:24 PM

You are so mean. :(

Taller Better

Mar 10, 2007, 7:26 PM

You are so mean. :(

Hehehe (evil grin).
Now, Salisbury House... that's quality!! ;)

spiritedenergy

Mar 10, 2007, 7:28 PM

I know its disgusting. I've never even really tried Tim Hortons doughnuts or coffee. However, the fact remains that each restaraunt is a Zoo, it's easy to see why people avoid the place.

Starbucks, Sals, Robins Doughnuts and even Second Cup have a much more relaxing atomisphere, at least in Winnipeg.

i love Robins:kiss: Second cup is very chic but also expensive.

kool maudit

Mar 10, 2007, 7:54 PM

i think tim horton's puts cocaine in the waxy lining of their cups, which is then absorbed into the coffee as it breaks down in the heat.

nothing wakes you up like that stuff. no triple-at-olympico/little italy/jungle-beans-of-lost-valley...nothing.

Ottawade

Mar 10, 2007, 8:01 PM

I remember reading in the Globe that for a few years running in blind taste tests of big-name coffee places and fast food chains that McDonald's beat out Starbucks and the like. It was judged by a panel of coffee "experts" not a random sampling of people. Almost makes me want to try some...

Taller Better

Mar 10, 2007, 8:02 PM

They're donuts are great. :(

You're wrong!!!!!! LIAR!!!!!!

Tim's donuts are like soggy bland betty crocker cake, without the better crocker cake.

we do have a Robin's equivalent in Toronto.. it is called Coffee Time. They don't use crack in the Icy Caps, or cocaine in their coffee... but their customers do!

fengshui

Mar 10, 2007, 10:39 PM

You my friend (well internet acquaintance) have given me a superb idea for a photo project. Documenting one marginalized art form through another. Do you know of many of these "latte artists"? PM me

Someone beat you to it.
From http://www.coffeegeek.com/guides/frothingguide/examples

http://www.mts.net/%7Efengshui/images/anotherjim_1.jpg

http://www.mts.net/%7Efengshui/images/bulldog1_3.jpg

http://www.mts.net/%7Efengshui/images/coffeejunkie_3.jpg

http://www.mts.net/%7Efengshui/images/rbh1515_2.jpg

http://www.mts.net/%7Efengshui/images/sjames_01.jpg

Arriviste

Mar 10, 2007, 11:27 PM

Meh, I can do it better.
Those lack consistency.

LeftCoaster

Mar 10, 2007, 11:33 PM

^ Wow those are cool, too bad it seems to be falling out of favour, they still do it at cafe artigano though. And on that note, Intothewest, great call on Cafe Artigano! It is great, everything they serve there is top notch, from their coffee beverages right down to their hot chocolate, it is a great place, and right downtown! Im also a big fan on 'Bean around the world' in Vancouver, they have a few locations with pretty good coffee, and a nice laidback (completly hippy) atmosphere. Even the location in Westvan is laidback.

Starbucks in my opinoin is ok, definetly drinkable, but overpriced and overvalued. In terms of Starbucks over tims though it no question for me, starbucks hands down. I find tims coffee terrible, the only way i can drink it is double double, and I usually take my coffee black!

the dude

Mar 10, 2007, 11:46 PM

people you love tim horton's are not coffee lovers, they're convenience lovers. for my money it's bridgehead in ottawa. tasty, organic and fair trade. in the hammer there are a few small, independent coffee shops that serve a decent cup but it's hit and miss.

Rusty van Reddick

Mar 11, 2007, 12:06 AM

latte art falling out of favour?!?! what are you talking about?

LeftCoaster

Mar 11, 2007, 12:21 AM

OK wrong wording... not falling out of favour, just falling out of use i suppose.

Kilgore Trout

Mar 11, 2007, 1:43 AM

how can it fall out of use when it has never been widespread in the first place? only a handful of cafes in canada even practice latte art, mostly because it requires training.

I think the thing that throws people off of Starbucks is the fact that you can't order a black coffee - you have to almost jump through hoops to order the coffee. That's the largest complaint I hear.

"hi, i'll have a tall coffee please."

how hard is that?

Kilgore Trout

Mar 11, 2007, 1:49 AM

on the subject of good coffee, when i was in vancouver last month, i went to caffè artigiano for the first time. fantastic! it was some of the best coffee i've ever had. i went to the howe street location three or four times and it was always packed. it felt more like a bar or italian cafe than a typical west coast coffeehouse.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/159/410853040_4c624bd01a.jpg?v=0

i also went back to jj bean, which i've visited a number of times over the years, but as usual i wasn't very impressed. i'm not sure why but i just don't find the coffee to be very exceptional. that said, i always go to the commercial drive location, so maybe some of the other stores are better.

oh, and i tried bumpy's in calgary... delicious coffee. but in terms of atmosphere and food, i prefer the more convivial caffè beano. the coffee isn't quite as good, but it's cheaper and there's a real sense of community. you can tell that many of the customers are regulars.

Rusty van Reddick

Mar 11, 2007, 2:34 AM

Kilgore, you're right about beano- if they could combine the quality of the coffee with at bumpy's with the atmosphere of beano we'd have- Caffe Artigiano! Or even Elysian Room, ie open a lot later than Artigiano.

I like the JJ Beans Main St location. I think the best coffeehouse in Van is actually Cafe O in Yaletown, and am happy to say that their beans are the same that will be on offer at Phil+Sebastian when they open - Hines Public Market Coffee.

Cafe ArtJava in Montreal does spectacular latte art btw, judging from their youtube videos!

malek

Mar 11, 2007, 2:48 AM

i don't get all the fuss some of you are making about coffee... its _just_ coffee and if you don't like it, you throw it and get another one, its not expensive or anything anyways.

My answer: whatever is more convienient, if there's a tim, i'll go there, but if i have a choice, i'll buy somewhere else.

Jay in Cowtown

Mar 11, 2007, 3:39 AM

The one thing that Tim Hortons has that no one can touch are the Icy Capps which are basically frozen crack...you can get addicted to them soooooooo fast.

I feel the same about the Starbucks Mocha Frappuccino!

BlackRedGold

Mar 11, 2007, 5:05 AM

In Calgary, there's a lot of Starbucks (downtown) and Tim Hortons (suburd and airport).

There are plenty of Starbucks at the Calgary Airport.

BlackRedGold

Mar 11, 2007, 5:09 AM

Here in Ottawa there are bridgehead coffee shops and although probably a bit pricey if you really drink it by the liter, neither of the big chains can stand up to it. Plus it's fair trade/organic (no, the fair trade isn't what makes it taste better :P ). I'll take a pound of Mexican bridgehead over anything starbucks has...:banana:

The one time I had a latte at Bridgehead it was WAY worse then the worst latte I've ever had at Starbucks. But I understand these days I could get a much better one at the New Edinburgh Bridgehead location.

Ottawade

Mar 11, 2007, 6:15 AM

The one time I had a latte at Bridgehead it was WAY worse then the worst latte I've ever had at Starbucks. But I understand these days I could get a much better one at the New Edinburgh Bridgehead location.

I can't speak for the lattes, but if you find a great spot in Ottawa for coffee let me know. I've heard Preston has some great places, but I hardly ever venture to that part of town

Kilgore Trout

Mar 11, 2007, 7:39 AM

Cafe ArtJava in Montreal does spectacular latte art btw, judging from their youtube videos!

yeah... the guys who run artjava are friends with the guys who run artigiano. there are a lot of similarities between the way the coffee is made and even the way the cafes are run. in fact, artjava just opened up a second location in an odd but surprisingly convenient corner of downtown, so i'm hoping we will finally have a local coffee chain to rival all of the second cup/starbucks/presse cafe/van houtte mediocrity.

people often have this misconception of montreal as a city with a great cafe culture, but traditionally it has had much more of a bar culture. there are only a few neighbourhoods where people have a really passionate relationship with their local cafes. (my neighbourhood is one of them. allegiances are split between social club and open da night/cafe olimpico, two old-school italian cafes a block apart.)

i don't get all the fuss some of you are making about coffee... its _just_ coffee and if you don't like it, you throw it and get another one, its not expensive or anything anyways.

My answer: whatever is more convienient, if there's a tim, i'll go there, but if i have a choice, i'll buy somewhere else.

i don't really know what to say to that. do you also think that all beers are the same, all wines are the same and that all tea is the same?

there are important differences in taste, aroma and quality between different kinds of espresso and brewed coffee. it all depends on the origin of the bean, how the bean is prepared and how the coffee is extracted from the bean.

that's not even getting into the many different types of coffee preparation: french, turkish, greek, ethiopian, vietnamese, etc.

Boris2k7

Mar 11, 2007, 7:41 AM

I can't say I have coffee enough to have developed much of a taste for the different types.

However, what I do know is that Tim Horton's coffee tastes like swill. Just awful.

I would take Good Earth over Starbucks... the fair trade and organic nature of the coffee is one reason to support, that it is a Calgary-based franchise is another... and the fact that I can simply order a medium roast without things getting complicated is a blessing.

Usually though, I just brew coffee at home. My Mom got a new Krupps machine (which she uses for her Espresso) and I have put it to good use. Now usually with flavoured beans from Safeway. I've taken a particular liking to Irish Cream...

vid

Mar 11, 2007, 8:13 AM

Now usually with flavoured beans from Safeway.

:tup:

malek

Mar 11, 2007, 9:09 AM

i don't really know what to say to that. do you also think that all beers are the same, all wines are the same and that all tea is the same?

there are important differences in taste, aroma and quality between different kinds of espresso and brewed coffee. it all depends on the origin of the bean, how the bean is prepared and how the coffee is extracted from the bean.

that's not even getting into the many different types of coffee preparation: french, turkish, greek, ethiopian, vietnamese, etc.

i can understand for wine, the investment is greater and there's a whole scene/subculture behind it, there's a commitment that I can understand.

but coffee? tea? beer? come on, its a few bucks, you won't ruin your day if its bad or half-bad, just pick another variety and you're good to go.

coffee is hardly a show stopper for me.:cheers:

Tony

Mar 11, 2007, 12:57 PM

I don't understand what all the hoopla about Starbuck's is about really. People mistake making coffee really strong for coffee with good flavor. I can't say I have tried every last flavor but of the ones I have tried I would probably rate Tim's higher up.

At the risk of sounding like a complete coffee-snob, your statement here pretty well just says you don't know what you're talking about. There isn't just one type of Coffee Bean and only one way to roast them.

fter years and years of going to Starbucks and even celebrating its expansion in Canada, I have come to despise it. As I've learned more about espresso, and the art and complexity surrounding espresso-based drinks, I've learned that Starbucks bastardizes them completely. They use 32-oz milk pitchers and re-use milk and their sickening, overstretched "foam"; their espresso is nothing but blond crema (a bad sign- creme should be mottled with deep browns and reds, not be flat blond); they have taken away any semblance of expertise from their baristas and have lowered standards for the entire industry. This is very sad.

I have yet to encounter any barista at Starbucks who does latte art- in fact, most don't even know what latte art is, or the fact that it's a demonstration of perfectly stretched and foamed milk. For an example, see my avatar.

I can kinda agree with you regarding the lack of authentcity in the SB espresso when made by inexperienced or uncaring baristas; however, they are taught about the the different crema. I think you may be able to solve this problem by ordering with a heavier milk rather than a light milk.

BTW, latte art? Who cares, most people order drinks to go and slap a cover ontop right away and given the volume and speed at which these drinks must be produced at many of the stores, who has time for that?

As for Coffee coffee.. I'd go with Timothy's (roasted in North York).

vid

Mar 11, 2007, 1:07 PM

bc2mb

Mar 11, 2007, 3:18 PM

Tim's tastes like lukewarm dish water to me... the coffee is weak. But they have great sandwiches, soups, etc.

I do love Starbucks.. I only buy drip coffee from them, it's always hot, consistent and flavourful. That's all I want from a coffee shop.

kool maudit

Mar 11, 2007, 3:24 PM

there is something very rewarding about a good cup of coffee....but it is really one of the more annoying forms of epicureanism. at least wine snobbery retains a tiny bacchic element.

Arriviste

Mar 11, 2007, 3:34 PM

"BTW, latte art? Who cares, most people order drinks to go and slap a cover ontop right away and given the volume and speed at which these drinks must be produced at many of the stores, who has time for that?"

Underemployed, middle aged gay men with nothing better to do? :shrug:

Well, I'm an employed, 20 something straight male and I am intrigued by the concept. So I think that there are more appreciators of that particular detail than one would assume. Seems fucking awesome to me. Like sand art, except even more fleeting which adds so much to its sublimity.

JBinCalgary

Mar 11, 2007, 3:39 PM

Kilgore Trout

Mar 11, 2007, 3:52 PM

there is something very rewarding about a good cup of coffee....but it is really one of the more annoying forms of epicureanism. at least wine snobbery retains a tiny bacchic element.

it's all about priorities. i might be snobby in some regards, but i will almost never turn away anything because it's mediocre.

i don't get all the fuss some of you are making about coffee... its _just_ coffee and if you don't like it, you throw it and get another one, its not expensive or anything anyways.

My answer: whatever is more convienient, if there's a tim, i'll go there, but if i have a choice, i'll buy somewhere else.

fair enough. i drink tim's coffee too. it's not great, but it's cheap and it gets the job done. i don't have extra money to spare for a really great coffee every time i need something to wake me up.

but my relationship with food and drink isn't entirely utilitarian... i like to enjoy the luxury of a great meal, coffee or beer every now and again.

Arriviste

Mar 11, 2007, 4:02 PM

there is something very rewarding about a good cup of coffee....but it is really one of the more annoying forms of epicureanism. at least wine snobbery retains a tiny bacchic element.

Perhaps this sounds ridiculous, but you have a nice way with words. Very admirable actually. I've been noticing this in certain posts of yours over the last while. Articulate, without being condescending.

Rusty van Reddick

Mar 11, 2007, 4:09 PM

Vid, I'm not TECHNICALLY underemployed. I do have a lot of time on my hands.

Malek- replace every "coffee" you write with "hockey team." To some people it really does matter.

Kilgore- I think both Montreal and Toronto are similarly hemmed in by "first wave" Italian (or Italian-esque) coffee traditions. They prefer to use cheap Italian beans like Mauro or Barzula or Torrisi, and while they can pull of espressos that look okay, they completely ignore small-batch local (or otherwise North American) roasters that will have MUCH better beans. I had some Torrisi yesterday and it tastes like turpentine, undrinkable, and you get that all over eastern Canada- paying the price for tradition.

Tony, it takes LESS time to make a proper cappo with microfoam (which you are not going to find at chains) than it does to overstretch milk like they do at Starbucks. Go to Bulldog in Toronto and compare the cappuccino you get there- with art that takes not one second longer than to make it WITHOUT art- and compare it to Starbucks, with its horrid seafoam on top.

Rusty van Reddick

Mar 11, 2007, 4:12 PM

Kool Maudit, one can be a connoisseur of coffee without spending a lot of money (and thus without being rich). This, to me, makes coffee aficianados among the least annoying aficianados.

Wine might be "bacchic," but coffee has its dancing Yemenite goats. I think coffee wins.

keninhalifax

Mar 11, 2007, 4:28 PM

The one time I had a latte at Bridgehead it was WAY worse then the worst latte I've ever had at Starbucks. But I understand these days I could get a much better one at the New Edinburgh Bridgehead location.

It depends on how experienced the barista who made your latte was, but I know that Bridgehead takes much time and care into teaching their employees proper "coffee education" -- not just the methods for making espresso drinks and brewing coffee, but also about the production and trade of the crop and the methods for identifying the proper characteristics of each of their blends.

I don't mean to make a shameless plug, but you'll find the very best Bridgehead baristas at the Wellington Street location. There's lots of experience behind that (automatic) espresso machine.

keninhalifax

Mar 11, 2007, 4:30 PM

Oh, by the way, the hands-down worst espresso that I have ever had in my life was at the Timothy's across from Nathan Phillips Square in Toronto. This was at 9:00 in the morning before last year's Toronto meet, and I don't think the person who was working knew what an espresso was. It had no crema to speak of, it tasted like underextracted Nescafé. I almost hurled.

raisethehammer

Mar 11, 2007, 4:37 PM

if you're ever in Hamilton you must hit one of the coffee bars on James North for a cappuccino or espresso.
You'll think you're in Europe.
I'm amazed that places like Hortons, Second Cup or Starbucks can stay in business when there is such amazing coffee to be found elsewhere.

BlackRedGold

Mar 11, 2007, 6:05 PM

Oh, by the way, the hands-down worst espresso that I have ever had in my life was at the Timothy's across from Nathan Phillips Square in Toronto.

The worst beverage that ever claimed to be a latte I've ever had was this horrid thing I got at the Timothy's in the Heart Institute of the Ottawa Hospital's Civic Campus. But when I was working downtown I preferred the Timothy's at Place de Ville over the nearby Starbucks in the Marriott.

niwell

Mar 11, 2007, 6:59 PM

I'll actually be more likely to drink coffee at TH than Starbucks. Not that I particularly like Tim Hortons coffee (though I'd concur with Kool Maudit's cocaine on the cups theory, it's the only explanation), but if I'd rather spend half the price to get a bad cup of coffee. I've always found Starbucks to have extremely acidic coffee which usually gives me a stomach ache. If given the choice, I'll go with Bridgehead in Ottawa every time.

Rusty van Reddick

Mar 11, 2007, 7:09 PM

If brewed coffee gives you stomach problems, try switching to straight espresso. Less volume and unless you're drinking triples, less caffeine (per serving, not by weight!)

malek

Mar 11, 2007, 9:48 PM

Kilgore getting his coffee : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pnxWs1Pxf0 ;)

SpongeG

Mar 11, 2007, 10:52 PM

I can't help but to notice the fact that Tim's is so much more popular in Ontario. Do people hate Tim's because its an Ontario thing or because their restaurant sucks?

Just curious..

their dounts are gross - ever since they started making them off site they have sucked

all dry and bland

Rusty van Reddick

Mar 11, 2007, 11:22 PM

Only lonely, People don't hate Tim's, where do you get this? It's a religion in Calgary at least.

Only The Lonely..

Mar 11, 2007, 11:46 PM

Only lonely, People don't hate Tim's, where do you get this? It's a religion in Calgary at least.

Really, a lot of people I know describe Tim's as being very 'Ontarian', whatever that means.

The place has such a cult like status in Ontario I figure Westerner's just despise it for that reason alone.

Xelebes

Mar 11, 2007, 11:52 PM

Really, a lot of people I know describe Tim's as being very 'Ontarian', whatever that means.

The place has such a cult like status in Ontario I figure Westerner's just despise it for that reason alone.

What else is there? Starbucks is too pricey and inconvenient as with Second Cup. What little else competition serves their niche locations.

SpongeG

Mar 12, 2007, 1:01 AM

Vancouver has blendz and waves is really expanding now

MolsonExport

Mar 12, 2007, 1:12 AM

Every time I walk past a Tim Horton's and see the ridiculous lineup I get angry at the obscene number of people that gladly, gleefully chose to spend their money there.

Me too. There should be a public boycott of Tim Hortons until they do something about their shitty service. Extremely shitty service.

Only The Lonely..

Mar 12, 2007, 2:10 AM

Me too. There should be a public boycott of Tim Hortons until they do something about their shitty service. Extremely shitty service.

What about their shitty buildings? I realize that this is kinda a desperate argument, but architecturally speaking I think Starbucks has better looking stores.

http://www.99w.com/evilsam/ff/timhortons.jpghttp://chrismiles.info/trips/usa2000/images/whistler/starbucks.jpg

IntotheWest

Mar 12, 2007, 2:14 AM

^That's one thing Starbucks has been able to maintain - despite growing by 8 stores a day - above average service. Yes, maybe some have bad service stories to share, but I have nothing but great experience (and a lot of free coffee from when they figure they've "screwed up"). Makes for an enjoyable experience, and repeat customers.

osirisboy

Mar 12, 2007, 2:45 AM

i love starbucks it has the best coffee

vid

Mar 12, 2007, 2:47 AM

The fun thing about Tim Hortons is that every single one looks identical. The only one that is "unique" is a huge on located in an old Harveys. And even this, it's the same, just bigger.

The Starbucks however, are slightly different. Almost identical but with light brown instead of orange brown brick. :cheers:

And the others are in Chapters and the Safeways.

Rusty van Reddick

Mar 12, 2007, 2:59 AM

TH on 17th Ave is sort of different, since it's a reclaimed bank building, and I saw one on the Annex in Toronto that was pretty unique, but yeah, definitely cut from the same cloth as Wendy's.

Osiris- if you're in Yaletown, I suggest you check out Cafe O in the Opus Hotel- might make you forget Starbucks. It's no more expensive than Starbucks either.

Only The Lonely..

Mar 12, 2007, 3:01 AM

I just find as far as architectural variety is concerned Starbucks is better.

Maybe i'm wrong, but it would also seem to me that your more likely to find a Starbucks downtown than a Tims.

vid

Mar 12, 2007, 3:17 AM

Our five Starbucks locations are in Safeways or power centres. One Safeway is downtown.

But the only coffeeshops downtown are Robin's. Tims has tried to get in before but the BIAs won't let them, they have a pretty strict local-only policy.

SpongeG

Mar 12, 2007, 3:32 AM

theres at least a few tim hortons in downtown vancouver - in the paramount, 2 on dunsmuir, one on alberni, one on burrard

elsonic

Mar 12, 2007, 5:03 AM

Tim Hortons is ok for a highway trip ; Starbucks for some terminal in Boston.

elsonic

Mar 12, 2007, 5:05 AM

theres at least a few tim hortons in downtown vancouver - in the paramount, 2 on dunsmuir, one on alberni, one on burrard

when in Vancouver, there were SO many places to get an excellent coffee. no need for a TH.

keninhalifax

Mar 12, 2007, 4:52 PM

If a gun were pointed at my head and I were forced to drink brewed coffee from either Starbuck's or Tim Horton's, I would probably choose Tim Hortons simply because every cup of coffee that I have ever had at Starbucks has been disturbingly acidic and overheated. Perhaps since Starbucks is such a latte-oriented place, less care goes in to the proper brewing process for coffee.

When I travel and I'm forced away from my daily coffee joint, I usually track down a half-decent coffee shop (Starbucks if I'm forced) and order espresso or americano because I can never be certain about how the brewed coffee is treated.

MolsonExport

Mar 12, 2007, 5:04 PM

As of January 2007, there were 2,710 Tim Horton's outlets in Canada (Wikipedia). One outlet for every 12177 people.

To date, Starbucks Coffee Canada has over 400 company-operated stores and over 100 licenced concept stores across the country. (Starbucks.ca)

IntotheWest

Mar 12, 2007, 6:05 PM

vid

Mar 12, 2007, 6:12 PM

"The line-up was 15 minutes long."

You waited 15 minutes for Tim Hortons? :yuck:

niwell

Mar 12, 2007, 7:20 PM

Coincidentally, there was an article in the paper talking about Starbucks and TH in Calgary - 70 Starbucks (46 company-owned, 24 licensed), and 73 THs - pretty even...I believe it mentioned 34 Second Cups.

We went to TH for lunch the other day (really, I don't know why - other than we were at WestHills, and it was the closest place), and it was PACKED. The line-up was 15 minutes long.

Last time I went to a TH in Calgary I had to wait almost that long (it wasn't my idea to go there though!). It wasn't the lineup though, it was the employees who didn't seem to know what they were doing at all. And yet they probably get paid more than I do at my part-time job where I'm expected to know every going on in music...

vid

Mar 12, 2007, 7:21 PM

At least your job is enjoyable.

Unless you're catering to Simple Plan fans. In which case, I am very sorry.

niwell

Mar 12, 2007, 7:22 PM

If brewed coffee gives you stomach problems, try switching to straight espresso. Less volume and unless you're drinking triples, less caffeine (per serving, not by weight!)

It's only the brewed coffee at Starbucks, which is particularly acidic. Keninottawa seems to have noticed this as well. I'm fine with pretty much any other coffee place I go to.

Usually when I end up at SB (rarely) I go for a cafe Americano, which is much less acidic.