[Vertigo]

ECG
Louisville ought to have a landmark building that people can flock to, adore, put on postcards, etc. and I don't see that happening here.

Louisville already has that...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v67/ver2go/church1.jpg

ECG
People will sail down the river, round the corner, say "holy crap, what is that thing?" and move on. They'll be left with an impression of how weird, ugly, scary, etc. the building looked just as often as they'll remember it as a masterpiece.


This was why I posted the picture of Churchill Downs. A series of massive expansions and renovations have basically bastardized this once quiant racing track into a poster child for corporate greed.

Yet, it remains one of the most instantly recognizable sporting venues in the world. It draws an international guest list of celebrities. And few of these visitors complain of how unnattractive the place is.

Why?

It happens because Churchill Downs is more than just a racing track. People that venture there do so for the EXPERIENCE. Whether sipping champagne in one of the luxury skyboxes on millionaires row or spending the day passed out in the infield, anyone that lives through a Derby never forgets it (and most don't even remember the races).

Making Churchill Downs more 'ugly' might have forever altered the look of the place but it allowed far more people to experience the most exciting two minutes in sports each year. Churchill Downs could have lived off it's past legacy and simply kept things the way they were 100 years ago. Instead, it actively sought ways of reinventing itself to appeal to each new generation.

MP doesn't have the history of Churchill Downs but I think you underestimate it's impact by assuming many people will "sail down the river, round the corner, say "holy crap, what is that thing?" then move on.

Many people will be curious as to what it really is and want to explore it further. I know that ESPECIALLY if I had just witnessed what I thought was the ugliest thing ever create I would want to know what it was.

And what is it?

An art museum..

It's much more than that. It's a part of this.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v67/ver2go/ville15.jpg

Museums, galleries, restaurants, and theatres already fill this street and most visitors must pass those when entering Museum Plaza. Main Street is the anchor to this arts district, not Museum Plaza. So in that respect, it's a smaller part of a whole 'experience'...

The Derby is more than just a horse race. Main Street is more than just a Museum Plaza. I think most people will realize this and maybe Louisville will become known for something besides 2 wild weeks out of the year.

[EmpireCityGuy]

So what funds are to be used 5, 10, to 20 years from now to maintain the building?

Art museum admissions won't come close to covering the cost of running this building. MP needs sales just as much as Signature Tower or any other building such as this.

The difference is that MP doesn't need those sales up front because the initial 'start up' costs are essentially in place.

Where do I even start with this one. No one but you is even entertaining the idea that museum admissions would or ever was intended to cover the costs of the building. It is a residential tower! - condo purchases, condo fees. It's a museum!- endowments, admissions, donations, seminars! MP will also house an institution of higher learning - rental income! Etc...

Residential towers often must have a minimum sales prerequisite before getting off the ground - those projects depend on loans from banks - the difference between those and MP is that, as stated already, MP is funded privately. Is everyone following?

[GoldenBoot]

...MP is funded privately...

Isn't the State of Kentucky kicking in $130 million of the total $465 million for the project? At least that is what has been purported in Louisville's local media...

[loupremo]

Isn't the State of Kentucky kicking in $130 million of the total $465 million for the project? At least that is what has been purported in Louisville's local media...



money from the state will be used for public infrastructure only. and it will be rebated. money generated from the hotel will help pay back the money from the state.

the tax plan has already been approved, but this article gives a little info about it.

Museum Plaza tax plan should be approved
Business First of Louisville - March 2, 2007


If all goes as it should, a bill that would allow some hotel-room taxes to be used for public improvements for the proposed Museum Plaza project should be passed today by the Kentucky House of Representatives. Then the Kentucky Senate also should pass the measure so this important downtown Louisville project becomes a reality.

Included in the $465 million, 62-story Museum Plaza complex will be office space, condominiums, retail space, an art museum and a Westin Hotel. House Bill 549 would allow some of the new city room taxes generated by the hotel to be paid to the developers to help cover the cost of public infrastructure improvements such as the extension of River Road, new flood gates and the creation of a park.

The Greater Louisville Hotel and Lodging Association and the Kentucky Tourism Council oppose HB 549. They fear its passage will open the gates for other developers to use room taxes for purposes other than for tourism, as state law now requires.

We agree that it's important that bed-tax money be used for the promotion of tourism, but we think that the hotel association and the tourism council are off base in their criticism of this bill.

Let's examine the reality of this situation rather than getting caught up in an hypothetical discussion of what could happen down the line.

The estimated $22 million that Museum Plaza developers would receive over 30 years from a portion of the bed tax would go toward the $130 million of public infrastructure connected with the project. None of the money will pay for private parts of the complex, and the entire downtown community will benefit from many of these infrastructure improvements.

No money would be siphoned off from tourism promotion as has been charged by the bill's critics. The percentage of the room-tax money that would go toward the promotion of statewide tourism would not be changed.

True, the Louisville Convention & Visitor's Bureau would receive less from bed taxes generated by the Westin Hotel if the bill passes.

But it still stands to gain $3.8 million in new revenue from the Westin's bed taxes during the tax increment financing period and $1 million a year after that period is over.

There should be no fear that the passage of HB 549 will open the doors to similar requests.

[Lexy]

Isn't the State of Kentucky kicking in $130 million of the total $465 million for the project? At least that is what has been purported in Louisville's local media...


Yes and IMO, that's a joke. Why should taxpayers in Ashland, KY help foot the bill for a private developers idea......IN LOUISVILLE????

I'm sorry, but after living in KY for 21 years and knowing the taxes that people there have to pay it just makes me sick when I see how bad some of the school districts are and how so many people are still out of work across the state thanks to the coal industry. And then when I see the state using taxpayer money to help build a private investment in Louisville, I want to throw up.:hell: That's bullshit.

[Vertigo]

Residential towers often must have a minimum sales prerequisite before getting off the ground - those projects depend on loans from banks - the difference between those and MP is that, as stated already, MP is funded privately. Is everyone following?

Thank you for the insightful comment. I'm sure none of us knew that...lol!

I was simply replying so that some people wouldn't think that sales at MP aren't important. With the wording in eweezerinc's post it could have been interpreted that way(even though I'm sure he didn't mean it like that). Sales will be needed, just not upfront like normal (which is what I said in my original post).

[loupremo]

Yes and IMO, that's a joke. Why should taxpayers in Ashland, KY help foot the bill for a private developers idea......IN LOUISVILLE????

I'm sorry, but after living in KY for 21 years and knowing the taxes that people there have to pay it just makes me sick when I see how bad some of the school districts are and how so many people are still out of work across the state thanks to the coal industry. And then when I see the state using taxpayer money to help build a private investment in Louisville, I want to throw up.:hell: That's bullshit.


I don't think the taxes are coming from other counties around Kentucky. but rather from the tax increment financing (TIF) district set up around museum palza. and like the article said, the money will be paid back from revenue generated from MP. Louisvillians, correct me if i'm wrong.

Also, the same bill allowing the TIF district for MP is also allowing the 1 billion dollar mixed-use development along the Newport riverfront, known as Ovation, to go forward as well. So i think it's pretty wrong to try to make this a Louisville vs. the state of kentucky issue. That's just not the case. Louisville is basically the cash crop of the state anyway isn't it? I think the state benefits well from that city.

And lastly, 135 million wouldn't even put a dent into the issue of poor education and poverty in that state. you're going to need more like a couple billion for that.

--------------------------------------------------------
Museum Plaza tax plan should be approved
Business First of Louisville - March 2, 2007


If all goes as it should, a bill that would allow some hotel-room taxes to be used for public improvements for the proposed Museum Plaza project should be passed today by the Kentucky House of Representatives. Then the Kentucky Senate also should pass the measure so this important downtown Louisville project becomes a reality.

Included in the $465 million, 62-story Museum Plaza complex will be office space, condominiums, retail space, an art museum and a Westin Hotel. House Bill 549 would allow some of the new city room taxes generated by the hotel to be paid to the developers to help cover the cost of public infrastructure improvements such as the extension of River Road, new flood gates and the creation of a park.

The Greater Louisville Hotel and Lodging Association and the Kentucky Tourism Council oppose HB 549. They fear its passage will open the gates for other developers to use room taxes for purposes other than for tourism, as state law now requires.

We agree that it's important that bed-tax money be used for the promotion of tourism, but we think that the hotel association and the tourism council are off base in their criticism of this bill.

Let's examine the reality of this situation rather than getting caught up in an hypothetical discussion of what could happen down the line.

The estimated $22 million that Museum Plaza developers would receive over 30 years from a portion of the bed tax would go toward the $130 million of public infrastructure connected with the project. None of the money will pay for private parts of the complex, and the entire downtown community will benefit from many of these infrastructure improvements.

No money would be siphoned off from tourism promotion as has been charged by the bill's critics. The percentage of the room-tax money that would go toward the promotion of statewide tourism would not be changed.

True, the Louisville Convention & Visitor's Bureau would receive less from bed taxes generated by the Westin Hotel if the bill passes.

But it still stands to gain $3.8 million in new revenue from the Westin's bed taxes during the tax increment financing period and $1 million a year after that period is over.

There should be no fear that the passage of HB 549 will open the doors to similar requests.
----------------------------------

[EmpireCityGuy]

Yes and IMO, that's a joke. Why should taxpayers in Ashland, KY help foot the bill for a private developers idea......IN LOUISVILLE????

I'm sorry, but after living in KY for 21 years and knowing the taxes that people there have to pay it just makes me sick when I see how bad some of the school districts are and how so many people are still out of work across the state thanks to the coal industry. And then when I see the state using taxpayer money to help build a private investment in Louisville, I want to throw up.:hell: That's bullshit.


It takes more than funding to improve education... If it were only that easy... It starts at home - but let me not get too off topic here.

The state is supporting the "public" elements of the structure and urban landscape - not the private one. The Westin will be self-sufficient as will the residential portion, the business portion and any other private element. The museum is a public inhancement - so is the park, etc so it is reasonable that the state contribute something.

[JManc]

this building is certainly garish but i like it. it's daring and the developers obviously aren't afraid to experiment with new concepts. someone mentioned that it was no different than a bunch of blocks stacked on top of one another by a kid. so what? we have been building buildings that resemble a single block for so long that this ought to be an improvement in that regard.

anyway, what amazes me about this building is the engineering; it's a tripod and looks top heavy.

[Vertigo]

this building is certainly garish but i like it. it's daring and the developers obviously aren't afraid to experiment with new concepts. someone mentioned that it was no different than a bunch of blocks stacked on top of one another by a kid. so what? we have been building buildings that resemble a single block for so long that this ought to be an improvement in that regard.

anyway, what amazes me about this building is the engineering; it's a tripod and looks top heavy.

This should be one of the most interesting highrises to watch during the construction process. From what I understand, the mid section of the building housing the art museum etc. will be constructed on the ground and then hoisted into the air. Definitely not the usual way of constructing a skyscraper.

[eweezerinc]

from SSC:
yeah...and if you play flight simulator x, like me, you can get MP mods in the game...
i think it might be the old model of the rendering, but it's sooooo cool

http://fs1.flightsim.com/cgi/zview?cm=view&fn=84/loux1mr.zip&an=Documentation/LouR01.jpg

http://fs1.flightsim.com/cgi/zview?cm=view&fn=84/loux1mr.zip&an=Documentation/LouR03.jpg

http://fs1.flightsim.com/cgi/zview?cm=view&fn=84/loux0r.zip&an=LouX.0R/DocLouX.0/LouX.0-04.jpg

http://fs1.flightsim.com/cgi/zview?cm=view&fn=84/loux0r.zip&an=LouX.0R/DocLouX.0/LouX.0-07.jpg

http://fs1.flightsim.com/cgi/zview?cm=view&fn=84/loux0r.zip&an=LouX.0R/DocLouX.0/LouX.0-17.jpg

http://fs1.flightsim.com/cgi/zview?cm=view&fn=84/loux0r.zip&an=LouX.0R/DocLouX.0/LouX.0-16.jpg

http://fs1.flightsim.com/cgi/zview?cm=view&fn=84/loux0r.zip&an=LouX.0R/DocLouX.0/LouX.0-18.jpg

http://fs1.flightsim.com/cgi/zview?cm=view&fn=63/lou10_2r.zip&an=Doc10.2-R/City2.jpg

[loupremo]

i like the night shot. thanks!!!!

[weathermanstar]

http://www.worldarchitecturenews.com/news_images/1000%20Rex%20Riverside%20Museum%20Plaza.jpg


set up on Oct 25, 2007,

what about ZirMed Tower when set up?

[weathermanstar]

http://www.worldarchitecturenews.com/news_images/1000%20Rex%20Riverside%20Museum%20Plaza.jpg

set up on Oct 25, 2007 so far :yuck:

What about Zirmed Tower set up when?? :cool:

[eweezerinc]

State accepts Museum Plaza's application for TIF district
The Kentucky TIF Commission has accepted Museum Plaza's application for tax-increment financing on its public infrastructure.

Negotiations now will begin among Museum Plaza developers and local and state government officials to work out the details of the project grant agreement.

The agreement will return to the TIF Commission for approval before the project can get started. The TIF Commission is set to meet Oct. 16 to consider the project grant agreement, according to a news release.

Jill Midkiff, a spokeswoman for the Kentucky Finance Department, said she could not disclose how much the developers seek the TIF district to generate because that information is confidential taxpayer information.

Museum Plaza is planned as a 62-story complex with a contemporary art museum, a Westin hotel, office space, retail shops and residential condominiums. It will be located at Seventh Street and River Road in downtown Louisville and is expected to cost $490 million.

The project is slated to break ground in late October and to be completed in late 2010.

[eweezerinc]

26 days.

26 DAYS.

From SSC

from CJ...Museum Plaza's Sales office

http://cmsimg.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?NewTbl=1&Avis=B2&Dato=20070914&Kategori=NEWS01&Lopenr=709140805&Ref=PH&Item=1&MaxH=400
Jesse Calhoun handed equipment down to Matt Schmitz after Calhoun installed trim molding in the lobby of the new sales office for the Museum Plaza. The office is at 7th and Main streets, and the image on the wall replicates a view from the 25th floor of the upcoming Museum Plaza. (Photos by Sam Upshaw Jr., The Courier-Journal)

http://cmsimg.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?NewTbl=1&Avis=B2&Dato=20070914&Kategori=NEWS01&Lopenr=709140805&Ref=PH&Item=2&MaxW=455

http://cmsimg.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?NewTbl=1&Avis=B2&Dato=20070914&Kategori=NEWS01&Lopenr=709140805&Ref=PH&Item=3&MaxW=455

http://cmsimg.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?NewTbl=1&Avis=B2&Dato=20070914&Kategori=NEWS01&Lopenr=709140805&Ref=PH&Item=5&MaxW=455
The new sales office for Museum Plaza is at 7th and Main streets.

http://cmsimg.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?NewTbl=1&Avis=B2&Dato=20070914&Kategori=NEWS01&Lopenr=709140805&Ref=PH&Item=9&MaxW=455

http://cmsimg.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?NewTbl=1&Avis=B2&Dato=20070914&Kategori=NEWS01&Lopenr=709140805&Ref=PH&Item=10&MaxW=455

[chefjeff28]

Are we still a go for Oct. 25?

[mudvayneimn]

So far. I'm pretty sure there is one more meeting on or around October 15th dealing with the funding. So we should be hearing new info by next week.

[weathermanstar]

I can't wait built start of Museum Plaza, I love Museum Plaza,

Guess what?? I hear it Other new skyscraper happen in Louisville. Not that of Museum Plaza.

"Louisville Medical Center"

cheak it www.Louisvilleky.gov

[dallasbrink]

this looks like an old grain elevator
ugh ugh ugh, think im going to throw up. ughhhhh

[chefjeff28]

I can't wait built start of Museum Plaza, I love Museum Plaza,

Guess what?? I hear it Other new skyscraper happen in Louisville. Not that of Museum Plaza.

"Louisville Medical Center"

cheak it www.Louisvilleky.gov

I'm not seeing anything about a skyscraper(besides Zirmed, that is old) on this link.......help.

[weathermanstar]

http://www.louisvilleky.gov/economicdevelopment/downtowndevelopment/Downtown+Projects.htm


Louisville Medical Center
Louisville Mayor Jerry Abramson, with Governor Ernie Fletcher and UofL President Jim Ramsey, announced the redevelopment of the former Haymarket block.

Over the next two decades the 30 blocks that make up the Louisville health sciences campus will undergo a radical transformation made possible by a projected $2.5 billion of capital investment in expansion, renovation and infrastructure projects.

The taxing district will capture a portion of the incremental tax revenues created by the 20-year capital investment for reinvestment into the development. The TIF increment is anticipated to generate up to $300 million, sufficient to build out the Haymarket Business and Research Park and many components of the UofL Health Sciences Center Master Plan.

Louisville medical center (twin tower)

[chefjeff28]

Got it now, thanks man.

[chefjeff28]

Museum Plaza to start with flair
Groundbreaking set for Thursday

By Marcus Green
magreen@courier-journal.com
The Courier-Journal


Developers of the Museum Plaza skyscraper plan to leave a mark on traditional groundbreaking ceremonies when they announce the start of construction Thursday.

The first 500 people in attendance will get free barbecue and commemorative hard hats. A helicopter hovering 703 feet above the street will beam live footage to screens on the ground -- offering a glimpse of views from a height equivalent to the skyscraper's top floor.



"We really wanted it to be community celebration," said Louisville attorney Craig Greenberg, one of the project's four developers.

"Museum Plaza has always been a community project. It's always been a public-private partnership and it's been a project that's evolved based on the input of the entire community," he said.

The University of Louisville's pep band is scheduled to perform, and ground will be broken by a 20-foot-long, 400-pound shovel hanging from a 200-foot crane.

Starting at 4 p.m., Museum Plaza will have an open house at its sales and design center at 707 W. Main St., which features renderings of views from the building's 25th floor and portions of bathrooms and kitchens built to scale. The groundbreaking ceremony will follow at 5:40 p.m.

Some streets near the project site at Seventh Street and River Road will be closed much of Thursday. From 6 a.m. until 11:30 p.m., traffic won't be allowed on:

Seventh Street north of Main Street.

River Road west of Sixth Street.

Washington Street between Sixth and Eighth streets.

Museum Plaza, a 62-story skyscraper, is scheduled to be complete by late 2010. It is being developed by Greenberg, Louisville businessman Steve Poe and local couple Laura Lee Brown and Steve Wilson.

[bw87a]

Yes and IMO, that's a joke. Why should taxpayers in Ashland, KY help foot the bill for a private developers idea......IN LOUISVILLE????

I'm sorry, but after living in KY for 21 years and knowing the taxes that people there have to pay it just makes me sick when I see how bad some of the school districts are and how so many people are still out of work across the state thanks to the coal industry. And then when I see the state using taxpayer money to help build a private investment in Louisville, I want to throw up.:hell: That's bullshit.

i know this was written a while ago, but i had to just comment.
for one:
:banana: = dancing
does it make you want to throw up that louisville is finally getting some help from the state and getting a few things that it deserves? if it wasn't for louisville and the taxes that are paid to the state by louisvillians, the rest of the state would be much worse than it is. louisville gets a mere 60 cents back for every dollar it sends to frankfort. for what? to pay for the backwash roads in the rest of the state so somebody can pull out of their desolate driveway stuck in the side of a mountain and drive to their job at mcdonalds? it's sad, but it's true. louisville gets no respect from the other parts of the state and they don't even realize what louisville does for them. in my opinion, i would be fine if eastern kentucky ceded from the rest of the state and just became another part of west virginia. let's see if they would like that. i don't think so. so you go throw up and i'll be :banana: cause this project is starting in two days. oh yeah, i'll be :banana: too when our arena finishes, and the proposed new arena for lexington, and the new arena in northern kentucky, and all the other little things the 'golden triangle' is FINALLY getting under our state leadership. w00t!

[cactus22minus1]

Big shovel breaks ground on Museum Plaza project
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200771025038
http://cmsimg.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?NewTbl=1&Avis=B2&Dato=20070121&Kategori=MULTIMEDIA01&Lopenr=701210801&Ref=PH&Item=11&MaxW=455

Expected to open by Spring 2011.

[mudvayneimn]

I think it might be time for the mods to update the thread title! I wonder what all the people who thought it would never happen because of the city being Louisville or the design being too crazy for a USA city think now. I firmly believe this building will be join the list of Iconic American skyscrapers when it's finished. :banana:

[Stephenapolis]

This building is starting to grow on me. I still think the design is odd, I do not like the placdement of the building, and the facade looks like it is straight out of the late 60's. But that is all from renderings. Once it is built it should be more appealing.

[cth0511]

Once it is built it should be more appealing.

I sure doubt it.
:yuck:

I think we could get something a lot better for $490 million.

[i_am_hydrogen]

I think it might be time for the mods to update the thread title!

Done. (I hope I have the correct height figs.) Do you guys consider this one to be U/C or in site prep? If it's the former, then I'll move this thread to the Construction sub-forum.

[Hankster]

Big shovel breaks ground on Museum Plaza project
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200771025038


Congratulations Louisville. This is truly a great project and I look forward to seeing this one rise. Also, I hope to check out the museum one day in 2011.

[cactus22minus1]

It was just a ceremonial groundbreaking from what I can tell. Probably not U/C under SSP standards, but maybe someone who attended can speak up?

[mudvayneimn]

Technically it would be site prep I guess. They are in the process of finishing the soil testing. There is something happening the 15th of November, although I can't tell you what it is (I think it may have something to do with the foundation) or where it was posted lol.

[Tom In Chicago]

Looks like it will be under construction soon enough though. . .

[weathermanstar]

Last week i am going in there for groundbreaking, later next week, U/C not there. ( what happen?)

[loupremo]

i made a u/c thread about this in the other section but it got locked...
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=140022

[Steely Dan]

* posts deleted *

louisville vs. indianapolis stupidity is not permitted on this forum (nor is any city vs. city crap). this thread is exclusively for news, pics, opinions, and updates about louisville's museum plaza development.

[chefjeff28]

I'm going downtown tonight to see if any substantial construction has started.

[chefjeff28]

No activity at the site as of last night (OCT 31).

[bw87a]

make sure to keep us updated on the construction chefjeff. i'll be looking when i come back home for the holidays.

[toddguy]

I really, really hate the design of this building. Right up there aesthetically with the Palace of the Soviets in Kaliningrad. :yuck: Louisville has my deepest sympathies.

*sorry just being honest..this thing is just butt ugly to me.

[Wheelingman04]

^ I don't like it either. I am really hoping it looks better than it does in the renderings. Louisville is a great city that deserves a tall, quality tower.

[Reddyredd]

I'm a West Michigander at heart and have lived in Chicago for the last six years. Louisville has been my planned destination to settle down in. When I heard they were building a new skyscraper, I thought "Cool, things are developing." When I actually saw it I thought, "Dear God...Artistry!" Everyone I've shown the picture to has had the same reaction: "Wow, that is the future!"

Too bad some are thinking backward. Afraid to actually look ahead in a visionary way.

Like Millennium Park in Chicago, this is pure forward thinking. Not just a building, but something upon which to say, "Wow, this IS the future!"

[SD_Phil]

I'm a West Michigander at heart and have lived in Chicago for the last six years. Louisville has been my planned destination to settle down in. When I heard they were building a new skyscraper, I thought "Cool, things are developing." When I actually saw it I thought, "Dear God...Artistry!" Everyone I've shown the picture to has had the same reaction: "Wow, that is the future!"

Too bad some are thinking backward. Afraid to actually look ahead in a visionary way.

Like Millennium Park in Chicago, this is pure forward thinking. Not just a building, but something upon which to say, "Wow, this IS the future!"

I'm only half joking when I say that the future looks like a mutant wearing the skin of the 1960s.

I'm not afraid to look ahead, I'm disgusted by what I see.Those are different...

;)

[BnaBreaker]

I'm a West Michigander at heart and have lived in Chicago for the last six years. Louisville has been my planned destination to settle down in. When I heard they were building a new skyscraper, I thought "Cool, things are developing." When I actually saw it I thought, "Dear God...Artistry!" Everyone I've shown the picture to has had the same reaction: "Wow, that is the future!"

Too bad some are thinking backward. Afraid to actually look ahead in a visionary way.

Like Millennium Park in Chicago, this is pure forward thinking. Not just a building, but something upon which to say, "Wow, this IS the future!"

Um, well, the reason I don't see this as the future, is because the design is a failed concept of the past, in my opinion. Regardless though, to say that a person is "backwards" because they don't like the design of one particular skyscraper proposal is a bit of a stretch.

[Evergrey]

this is the most horrifying skyscraper proposal I've ever seen

[Steely Dan]

Regardless though, to say that a person is "backwards" because they don't like the design of one particular skyscraper proposal is a bit of a stretch.

absolutely. i fully disagree with your opinion on this proposal as i find it to be very exciting and interesting, but i can also respect your opinion of it at the same time. because we're not going to convince each other of our respective viewpoints on this project, all that's left in such situations is to agree to disagree, not attack those with a differing opinion.

too many people on this forum seem to have a very difficult time with agreeing to disagree when it comes to subjective matters of taste.

[loupremo]

FYI it's not a "proposal" anymore. Ground was broken on this skyscraper last month..

[Steely Dan]

^ ceremonial ground-breakings do not constitute official construction for the definition purposes of this forum. once some form of proper foundation work gets underway (caisson drilling, pile driving, permanent load-bearing retaining walls, etc), then it will be moved to the construction forum.

[Biff]

^ ceremonial ground-breakings do not constitute official construction for the definition purposes of this forum. once some form of proper foundation work gets underway (caisson drilling, pile driving, permanent load-bearing retaining walls, etc), then it will be moved to the construction forum.

I agree exactly, ground breakings and site clearing only mean just that - the site has been cleared. Quite often this can lead to the dreaded project falling apart and the glorious surface parking lot apears. Foundation work definately needs to have started to be under construction in my opinion.

...and for my 2 cents of an opinion on this building, i have tried and tried to be open and like it but.....

[BnaBreaker]

absolutely. i fully disagree with your opinion on this proposal as i find it to be very exciting and interesting, but i can also respect your opinion of it at the same time. because we're not going to convince each other of our respective viewpoints on this project, all that's left in such situations is to agree to disagree, not attack those with a differing opinion.

too many people on this forum seem to have a very difficult time with agreeing to disagree when it comes to subjective matters of taste.

Agreed. And to be clear, I absolutely love Louisville, and I think that this complex will do wonders for the downtown area. I just don't like the way the structure itself is designed.

[mudvayneimn]

Hey BnaBreaker, I'm Mad as hell also, what for I don't really know...:)

I'm really respect your opinnion. It's so easy to just say, "This is butt ugly, blah blah" but atleast you explained a little more as to why. For some reason I really like it, not because I think it looks pretty, but b/c there is just something Louisville about it. I just love the fact that people will see this building and remember Louisville (if they didn't have anything already) by. I like MP b/c it is basically nothing but a bunch of 70's boxes, such a plain dynamic, thrown into something building's aren't supposed to do, placed in ways building's usually aren't, and to get all of that space into the plot that it occupies makes this totally unique and IMO, a really good thing for Louisville, in all ways. Maybe I'm crazy! But I love it. :banana:

[BnaBreaker]

Hey BnaBreaker, I'm Mad as hell also, what for I don't really know...:)

I'm really respect your opinnion. It's so easy to just say, "This is butt ugly, blah blah" but atleast you explained a little more as to why. For some reason I really like it, not because I think it looks pretty, but b/c there is just something Louisville about it. I just love the fact that people will see this building and remember Louisville (if they didn't have anything already) by. I like MP b/c it is basically nothing but a bunch of 70's boxes, such a plain dynamic, thrown into something building's aren't supposed to do, placed in ways building's usually aren't, and to get all of that space into the plot that it occupies makes this totally unique and IMO, a really good thing for Louisville, in all ways. Maybe I'm crazy! But I love it. :banana:

You're as crazy for liking it as I am backwards for disliking it. In other words, we all just have different preferences. I actually dislike it for the same reason you like it. lol ;)

[samoen313]

it's going to be great. i understand the sentiment of many that dislike this building. it is oddly proportioned. but in terms of the experience, the building will be very significant. this is no ren cen. the program is geared toward how people use this building and not as some symbol or formulaic, generated pretty building.

while i like towers like comcast or signature or w=a in chicago (as a few significant examples) they lack the design philosophy of buildings like this or aqua in chicago. in these instances, the form of the building is determined through an in-depth study of usage or views or sound, etc. existing conditions of the site shape the tower, it is up to the architects to then refine and manipulate the form to accomplish new, discovered effects. it may seem ramshackle and primarily aimed at saying "f*** you" to traditional form, but the intent is very well informed. you can watch the video or look up joshua prince-ramus's developmental drawings for the project.

this is the language of architecture that will advance the american understanding of architecture. with all the technological tools and intellectual wealth of this nation, it would be a shame to simply waste all of those on something elegant, but essentially recycled. we constantly seek to research and charge forward in technology, in art, in economy, etc. so why must architecture be something determined by principles developed decades ago?

[phillyskyline]

I can;t wait to see it go up, it's gonna be poetry in motion!

[chefjeff28]

courier-journal.com > Local News
Tuesday, November 20, 2007
E-mail this | Print page

UPDATED: 9:55 PM
Museum Plaza seeks $45 million bond issue
By Dan Klepal and Marcus Green
The Courier-Journal



Louisville Metro Government will be asked to issue $45 million in bonds to jumpstart construction of the Museum Plaza project, a proposal that surprised some Metro Council members today.

The money would be used to help pay for about $139 million in public improvements related to the $490 million project, including new floodwalls, lighting and a public plaza.

A 62-story skyscraper — the heart of the project — is being privately financed.

Some council members said they were told only recently that metro government would have to carry debt on the public improvements.

"This merits serious discussion," said Hal Heiner, R-19th District, who spoke with Museum Plaza developers about the financing plan several weeks ago.

But a spokesman for Mayor Jerry Abramson said the city has always expected to cover some of the costs, even if the idea of financing them through city-backed bonds wasn't discussed publicly.

"We've known from the beginning of the project that the city would have a role to play in financing the public infrastructure, but it hadn't been quantified. It was just talked about in the abstract," said Chad Carlton, an Abramson spokesman. "We are making a business decision that this is an economic project important enough to put dollars behind."

Developers say the city bond money, negotiated with Abramson's administration, is a relatively small part of paying for the complex. They say the bonds are necessary for the project to proceed and will be paid off over three decades through future tax revenue generated by the project.

Council member David Tandy, whose downtown district includes the Museum Plaza site, is sponsoring an ordinance that would authorize a $130 million bond issue for the project. The measure was introduced at today's council meeting.

Tandy, D-4th, said he was briefed on the additional need for city funding last week.

"I'm not overly concerned. Relatively speaking, the number doesn't scare me," he said, referring to the proposed bond issue. "I'm confident that money will come back to us."

Last month officials broke ground on the project, at Seventh Street and River Road. Plans call for the skyscraper to include lofts, condos, a contemporary art center, office and retail space and a Westin hotel.

Museum Plaza will be financed in several ways, including private sources to cover the buildings and bonds to pay for the public improvements. The debt on the public portions will be paid through new taxes generated at the site as part of a tax increment financing, or TIF, district.

The district would allow developers to recapture some of the taxes generated at Museum Plaza, including room taxes from the hotel, and use them to pay off debt for the public infrastructure improvements.

The bulk of the improvements would be covered by the $130 million in bonds issued by the council and guaranteed by revenues from the tax district. The city's credit rating would not be affected, and it would not be liable for the debt.

But developers will be able to use only about $75 million in proceeds from that bond issue because they'll need to set aside money for expenses, such as paying debt until the district starts to generate revenue after Museum Plaza opens in 2010.

To make up the difference, the city would cover $45 million and the developers would pitch in $25 million.

Council member Kelly Downard said he had thought that the city's only financial stake in the project would be the revenue from the tax district and that local government wouldn't be asked to guarantee bonds, which is money that couldn't be borrowed for other purposes.

"I am not aware of that," said Downard, R-16th. "If that's the case, I wonder where the discussion has been."

Craig Greenberg, a Louisville attorney and one of four Museum Plaza investors, said developers have been crafting financing details with Abramson's administration for about a year, but they were only finalized last week.

"It has always been contemplated in those discussions that a portion of the TIF bonds are enhanced with the city's credit," he said.

Greenberg and Bruce Traughber, Louisville's economic development director, said the city's role in issuing bonds for Museum Plaza is similar to how it helped finance the downtown Marriott hotel.

The city issued $46.5 million in bonds for that project, and a tax-increment financing district at the site is paying annual debt on the bonds.

If the Museum Plaza district meets projections, Traughber said, the city would pay off its $45 million investment and receive an estimated $15 million in interest over the 30-year life of the taxing district.

"So our contribution toward one of the outstanding architectural feats in the world would be $1 million a year or less," he said.

Reporter Dan Klepal can be reached at (502) 582-4475.

Reporter Marcus Green can be reached at (502) 582-4675.
:( Hopefully this doesn't get delayed by metro council.

[mudvayneimn]

It won't. ;)

[loupremo]

museum Plaza infrastructure bonds move forward

By Marcus Green
magreen@courier-journal.com
The Courier-Journal



Museum Plaza, the $490 million skyscraper complex planned for Seventh Street and River Road, passed a key hurdle today as a Metro Council panel unanimously approved a measure allowing the issuance of $130 million in bonds to pay for infrastructure at the site.

The council’s labor and economic development committee also agreed on the basic terms of a development agreement outlining how developers will build the project, which began construction last month.

The measure now heads to the full council, which could consider it as early as next week.

The committee did not consider a separate measure that would ask Louisville Metro Government to issue $45 million in bonds to jumpstart construction of the Museum Plaza project, a proposal some council members had not expected.

The money at issue today would be used to help pay for about $139 million in public improvements related to the project, including new floodwalls, lighting and a public plaza.

Reporter Marcus Green can be reached at (502) 582-4675.
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071129/NEWS01/71129053

[StatenIslander237]

lol ^^^ that's pretty hard to argue with. :haha:

[Nowhereman1280]

Are cassions being drilled? Are piles being driven? If not, then its still not UC. Now if they are relocating utilities then this can be moved to site prep!

[mudvayneimn]

I snapped a few crappy pics the other day of the site. There's definately activity go on there. The first pic is of the left side of the site, the second is the right side.
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/1373/dscf0625ff1.jpg
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/4641/dscf0626rd3.jpg
Like I said, they are pretty crappy pics, I wasn't downtown for MP, but I happened to pass by the area.

[loupremo]

the pics aren't working. maybe my job is blocking them.

this is still far past the "proposal" stage...

[mudvayneimn]

It could be that, I'm able to see them from my job though lol. I used imageshack to host the pics so that could be causing the problems, earlier I was not able to see them in my post.

[chefjeff28]

Thanks for the pics. I knew 7th street was closed, but your pics are the first sign of activity I've seen.

[loupremo]

Bonds For Museum Plaza Project
$130 Million To Go To Improvements Surrounding Project


LOUISVILLE, Ky. -- The Metro Council has approved $130 million in bonds to help pay for the Museum Plaza project.

The money will be used to make improvements to the area around the 62-story building at Seventh Street and River Road. The improvements include a floodwall, new streets and a parking garage.

The money should be repaid by future property taxes generated on the site.

The Metro Council has yet to approve an additional $45 million in bonds for the project.
http://www.wlky.com/news/14798323/detail.html

[chefjeff28]

The 45 million in bonds is needed to fully start construction, correct?

[mudvayneimn]

Well, I made a trip to the site today and took a few pics. There was activity taking place while I was there, so I guess that's a good sign.:banana: The first pic shows the two largest pieces of equipment at the site right now. They are located on the western portion of the site, the rest are of the area where the current activity is taking place. Hope you enjoy! cheers:
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/2718/dscf0676cp8.jpg
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/8590/dscf0678do7.jpg
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/1284/dscf0679nj9.jpg
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/3623/dscf0680ii6.jpg
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/3126/dscf0681pu0.jpg

[SJPhillyBoy]

I would definitely call that "site prep". That is a good sign this thing is going to happen. Looks like they are doing some boring with that big drill bit. Maybe test boring or boring for initial cassions.

[Tom In Chicago]

Looking good. . . can't wait for this one to start. . .

[loupremo]

Museum Plaza bonds OK'd
Council ratifies $47 million issue

By Marcus Green
magreen@courier-journal.com
The Courier-Journal



Louisville will issue $47 million in bonds to help pay for public improvements at the Museum Plaza skyscraper -- the final government approval needed for the downtown project to advance.

The Louisville Metro Council voted 21-5 last night in favor of the bond issue, which caught members off guard when they learned of the proposal last month.



"The fact that this was approved now allows us to go forward and obtain a construction loan, and we had to have this done for that to happen," Steve Poe, one of four investors in Museum Plaza, said after the vote.

Besides the bonds and the developers' own money, a construction loan would be used to pay for the $490 million complex at Seventh Street and River Road. Poe said developers hope to obtain a loan within the next month.

The council turned back an amendment by Councilman Hal Heiner that would have given the city a 10 percent share of any profit if Museum Plaza is sold, reflecting the extent of the city's investment from the general fund.

Heiner described his plan as fair to Louisville taxpayers and said it would send a message that the council should be actively involved with developments seeking general fund money for public infrastructure.

"This amendment is a step toward protecting the public," said Heiner, R-19th District.

Councilman Kelly Downard, R-16th, argued that the city was setting a precedent that other developers could follow, and he said that the profit-sharing amendment wouldn't affect the project's cost.

But the measure was defeated 17-9. Opponents, like Councilman Tom Owen, compared the amendment to "rolling the dice" and said it could kill the project. He said the developers already had made compromises during negotiations with the city.

"This project could be at risk if we push, push, push this last measure," said Owen, D-8th.

In a telephone interview after the vote, Poe said Heiner's amendment would have put the project at risk.

Poe said the skyscraper will be "cross-collateralized" with the construction lender. In the event that the developers sell the hotel, for example, the lender would take most of the proceeds to pay down debt on the rest of the project.

"If we said that we had to pledge those proceeds to the city, I doubt that any construction lender would make that loan," he said.

Earlier this month, the council approved the issuance of $130 million in bonds for the project. That money, along with the $47 million bond, will be used to pay for sidewalks, new streets, a public plaza, floodwalls and other infrastructure related to the project. It will be repaid through a portion of future taxes generated at Museum Plaza.

If the tax revenues aren't enough to pay debt on the $47 million issuance, the city would be responsible for the payments. The city is not guaranteeing the $130 million in bonds.

Plans call for a 62-story skyscraper that includes lofts, condos, a contemporary art center, office and retail space, and a Westin hotel. Officials broke ground this fall, and plans call for Museum Plaza to open by 2011.

Reporter Marcus Green can be reached at (502) 582-4675.
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071221/BUSINESS/712210467

[mudvayneimn]

Hell yeah! This is very good news!:banana:

[chefjeff28]

Yes! No more political hurdles.

[loupremo]

it's a done deal..move this to U/C

[mudvayneimn]

Yep, this thread should be moved...unless it's like SSC and it doesn't move for site prep or whatever. I'm so excited that it's really happening! :banana:

[cactus22minus1]

They won't move the thread yet, but yes, great news. :) Thanks for keeping us updated. My eyes are peeled.

This project is the only exciting thing going on within a reasonable radius for me, unless Signature tower makes it. I will probably be in town once a month or so.. so you can count on some photo updates from me once she takes off.

[mudvayneimn]

Yeah I figured it probably wouldn't be moved until real construction starts taking place.

Sig is another project I'm looking forward to seeing grow. Man I can't wait to see MP, ST, QCS in Cincinnati really start up. Updates will be everywhere! lol

[mudvayneimn]

I decided to go to the site today to bring you all a christmas update. A bunch has happened since the last time I was down there, most noticable being new equipment, and materials on the left side of the site. They are also beginning to remove portions of 7th street. The right side of the site is still the action spot as you can see in the photos.

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/6294/dscf0710ev0.jpg
^Backside of the standing facades on Main.
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/9759/dscf0703tr9.jpg
^What you see when you walk past 7th street. The left side of the site.
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/9944/dscf0704zc5.jpg
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/6654/dscf0705yj5.jpg
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/3112/dscf0709vv2.jpg
^New equipment and materials are starting to fill up the site.
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/3474/dscf0707ab7.jpg
^Ripping up 7th street.
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/459/dscf0708li2.jpg
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/2150/dscf0722im3.jpg
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/6330/dscf0723ws6.jpg
^Main spot of activity.
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/7875/20854725lt7.jpg
Merry Christmas!

[ArchMadness]

Good to see the site prep. This will be a fun one to watch rise. It's so damn weird looking.

[bw87a]

i was down there a few days ago myself and i noticed the exact same thing: the increased construction on the left side. i think the road closures and destruction of 7th street are a good sign!

[cactus22minus1]

Yep, not that this building is at great risk or anything, but good signs. Are those caisson(sp?) liners I see?

Thanks for the updates.

[soonermeteor]

So what's construction if this isn't it?

[newstl2020]

Yes those are caisson liners. ^This will move to UC portal once the first actual caisson begins to be drilled. Foundation work is the deffinition of UC on SSP.

[mudvayneimn]

Hey Everybody! I went down to the site today to get a few pictures. Work is continuing quite nicely. As someone mentioned, the railroad bridge has been taken down and is pretty much sitting across 7th. Here they are, enjoy!

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/9483/dscf0731hr5.jpg
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/9630/dscf0733qe5.jpg
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/5281/dscf0736jn5.jpg
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/6215/dscf0738hv7.jpg
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/4378/dscf0739xd1.jpg
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/7213/dscf0740kd6.jpg
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/772/dscf0742jl5.jpg
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/3540/dscf0747bx0.jpg
:cheers:

[Tom In Chicago]

Looks like they're getting pretty close to starting on the caissons. . .

[Spocket]

Egads !
Okay, now that that's out of the way , this building would look much, MUCH better if that diagonal thingy were done away with. The blockiness is , hmmm...well, it's probably not so bad and might even look good once seen constructed. Otherwise it reminds me of some sort of drilling rig.

I don't know, I guess the finished product will likely surprise me but those renderings on page one just make this thing look...well, uh...'dated'.

[Vertigo]

The 'diagonal thingy' is a glass elevator. I think that's one of the best parts.

[mudvayneimn]

^ That was the one thing I didn't like about MP, but as time has gone on I've come to see it as an excellent feature. Riding that up to the island over some buildings while getting a great view of downtown is going to be sweet. :banana:

[Buck]

Since this is pretty much under construction, I'm moving it to that forum.

[chefjeff28]

Yea baby, under construction.:cheers:

[rpb502]

Can't wait until this thing is built!!!

[mudvayneimn]

I went downtown and took some pics on the 16th, but I haven't been able to get them posted yet. I will try to get them up by tonight.

Woo Hoo, we are now in the Construction forum! :banana:

[Henkka]

Quoting myself from already locked Museum Plaza -thread:
It looks like if Citicorp Center and the late WTC twins mated while tripping on acid. :D Even though I like this building already. Bold decision from Louisville to let this to be build.

Looks to be located a bit of center if looking from the river. (Is Louisville by the river, or do remember it all wrong?) But all it needs is more highrises to back it up.

[chefjeff28]

Downtown Louisville is on the river, the only thing separating Museum Plaza from the river is I-64. There is a 25 story building proposed to fill in the gap between the Humana building and MP.

[Wheelingman04]

Go Louisville!!!!!!!

[cactus22minus1]

If you visit downtown you'd realize the visual gap from far away means nothing. It's very connected to the rest of the area- it's definitely not too close to fall-off or anything. When it's done, the area will be very cohesive. :tup:

[Henkka]

Downtown Louisville is on the river, the only thing separating Museum Plaza from the river is I-64. There is a 25 story building proposed to fill in the gap between the Humana building and MP.

If you visit downtown you'd realize the visual gap from far away means nothing. It's very connected to the rest of the area- it's definitely not too close to fall-off or anything. When it's done, the area will be very cohesive. :tup:

Thanks for the info. My knowledge of Louisville must have doubled today. ;)

[mudvayneimn]

Sorry it took so long to get these uploaded (I've been working some overtime at my money maker) but here are the pics I took of the construction site on the 16th. I actually went into the Muhammad Ali Center and got a few peeks from the main Lobby. It is going to be something else to see MP towering over it in a few years. Anyway, the main thing I noticed down at the site was the bridge is completely gone now and the single caisson liner from the last few updates is completely in the ground.

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/8399/dscf0783ac8.jpg
^Still working on 7th Street
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/9643/dscf0786dk9.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/4707/dscf0787xt0.jpg
^Caisson Liner in the Ground
http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/5295/dscf0788nk9.jpg
http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/4872/dscf0789sn0.jpg
^Took a detour on the way to the Muhammad Ali Center, and captured a shot of the facades. Seems they are starting to remove the concrete.
http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/102/dscf0791mo8.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/6379/dscf0792ci1.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/2116/dscf0794zf5.jpg
^From the Muhammad Ali Center Parking Garage. Notice the Railroad bridge is without a trace.
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/9492/dscf0798wp8.jpg
^View from inside the Muhammad Ali Center Lobby.
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/6462/dscf0801fv5.jpg
^What you see as you pass 7th on Main.

Well, I should be able to make it back down to the site Wednesday to get some more pics. Until then enjoy!:cheers:

[rpb502]

Thanks for the updates!

I also hope to make it down there soon and see the site for myself.

It seems they are really working hard on it.

[Complex01]

Nice to see things moving along. Good updates...

:yes:

[Buck]

I've really grown to love this building (I used to hate it). I think it is going to be one of those buildings you have to see built and in-person to really appreciate it. It's a spectacle, that's for sure.

What is the street-life like in this area? It's not a dead, lifeless part of the city, is it?