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View Full Version : LOUISVILLE | Museum Plaza | 696 FT / 214 M | 61 FLOORS



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mudvayneimn
Apr 10, 2008, 5:29 AM
Yes it would. One thing I've noticed is that most people that like this building outside of Louisville just happen to be from Chicago, New York, and places outside of the USA. :)

Tom Servo
Apr 10, 2008, 7:32 AM
Yes it would. One thing I've noticed is that most people that like this building outside of Louisville just happen to be from Chicago, New York, and places outside of the USA. :)

that's because MOST americans don't know good design.

colemonkee
Apr 10, 2008, 7:04 PM
I like this building, and I'm not from New York or Chicago. :cool:

ethereal_reality
Apr 10, 2008, 7:15 PM
Museum Plaza was far and away the most progressive design in the U.S.
I believe architecture fans would have made pilgrimages to Louisville
just to see this building (and then discover the rest of the city as well)

NYC2ATX
Apr 11, 2008, 12:56 AM
Museum Plaza was far and away the most progressive design in the U.S.
I believe architecture fans would have made pilgrimages to Louisville
just to see this building (and then discover the rest of the city as well)

Well, their loss. :shrug:

futuresooner
Apr 11, 2008, 5:31 AM
I'm not writing this off, but it sure seems that its going to the shelves for a while, maybe permanetly, hope not, but we'll see. I'm surely not getting my hopes up on this, I can for Capitol Plaza though, or Capital Plaza, however its spelled.

mudvayneimn
Apr 11, 2008, 5:50 AM
I like this building, and I'm not from New York or Chicago. :cool:

I finally found a better way to explain what I was saying. Most of the people that dislike/don't understand it tend to be outside of a select few cities.:haha:

I've kinda put must worries aside for this building for the time being, because Thunder over Louisville is Saturday! I went downtown today and saw some F-16s and a f-18 flying above...can't wait!:banana: After the amazing air and firework show, I'll go back to my ritual of hoping this project will continue.
http://fmatters.com/galleries/2004_thunder/thunder_fire/images/P1010017.jpg
In a few years from now, hopefully a shot like this will include MP!

SFUVancouver
Apr 11, 2008, 6:55 AM
Museum Plaza was far and away the most progressive design in the U.S.
I believe architecture fans would have made pilgrimages to Louisville
just to see this building (and then discover the rest of the city as well)

You are speaking in the past tense; has this building been cancelled?

philopdx
Apr 14, 2008, 7:33 AM
I was a big proponent of the MP since it was such a bold aesthetic statement. I hope they are able to get other projects off the ground in the downtown core soon! I really enjoyed my time in Louisville and I'm always happy to see new development in places that aren't suburbs or empty pastures.

Steely Dan
Apr 14, 2008, 6:02 PM
* many off-topic posts deleted *

all posts continaing personal insults or that carry arguments from other web-forums onto this one will ALWAYS be summarily deleted and participants in such arguments will be subject to disciplinary action.

stay on topic or go have your spats on some other website, cause we ain't gonna tolerate it here.

LvilleSlggr73
Apr 16, 2008, 3:34 AM
Are we moved because of the delay in construction or has something new happened? Just curious.

Myke

kazpmk
Apr 16, 2008, 8:47 PM
Construction is definitely on hold until July according to the latest articles I read.
Problems
-Financing and the cassions that were put in the ground shook the surrounding buildings dangerously. (If I can remember correctly)

LvilleSlggr73
Apr 16, 2008, 11:29 PM
Thanks for the response! I knew about the hold until July, but I didn't know if a hold on construction was the reason for moving to proposals again.

Myke

futuresooner
Apr 16, 2008, 11:31 PM
Ya'll, just hope it doesn't end up like, forgot the address number, but it was on Rush Street in Chicago, cancelled!

Chi649
Apr 17, 2008, 4:25 AM
Museum Plaza was far and away the most progressive design in the U.S.
I believe architecture fans would have made pilgrimages to Louisville
just to see this building (and then discover the rest of the city as well)Count me in as one of those who would plan a trip to Louisville because of this building. I'm really hoping this one gets off the ground, otherwise it would be a terrible loss.
As far as people not liking this building, I think there are some that will not like any buildings that don't have curves or are boxy. Probably a lot of people who don't like Museum Plaza fall into this category.

jpIllInoIs
Apr 17, 2008, 2:09 PM
I LUV LU'VILLE! I won't even wait for this building to take a trip. :cheers:

Plasticman
Apr 18, 2008, 8:06 PM
I take exception to the elitist notions expressed on here as if someone who doesn't like the design must not be very enlightened or worldly. Some of us just don't like the design and it has nothing to do with it being in Louisville. Nor is it an intrinsic lack of culture that is the unearned stereotype thrust on America as a collective (under the guise that those from the larger culturally diverse cities here and overseas somehow have an edge in taste).

I'm sorry, I just don't like it. It's a fine idea but a cumbersome and somewhat disturbing design. :shrug:

LvilleSlggr73
Apr 18, 2008, 9:40 PM
It's definitely not your run of the mill skyscraper, to say the least and I must say that when I first saw it I didn't know what to think. It has since grown on me considerably, however, I do think I would've preferred something more traditional in many ways and have had a taller tower than a multi-legged tower that was shorter. Given the total size of this thing of about 1.5mln sq ft, a 75 story single tower structure would have about 20,000 sq ft per floor and with an avg of about 13-14 ft ceiling height per floor, that would've amounted to a tower in the 975ft to 1050ft range and taller if it had something adorning the top. I do still think that this tower still has a lot going for it, but sometimes I wish it were more along the lines of Siggy in Nashville, but not all the time, I'm just glad we may be getting something with some significant height to it.

Myke

vistaridge
Apr 21, 2008, 2:31 AM
The Architect - is sophisticated and requires a temperment to absorb. He is best suited for public projects or rare build to suits w/ the pocket book for his firms services. I'm not aware of any preceeding (office/residential high-rise) design his firm has completed on this scale but he is highly acclaimed for Seattle's Central Library. I'd love to have been a fly on the wall when the pitch was being made to sink this gargantua into a historic mid-19th century riverfront block where low-rise sandstone and brick buildings lay at its foundation.

I believe the design will be studied for years to come for its value in revisionist attributes but could have, perhaps should have been launched in a city like Toronto or Chicago.

bw87a
Apr 21, 2008, 7:51 PM
I believe the design will be studied for years to come for its value in revisionist attributes but could have, perhaps should have been launched in a city like Toronto or Chicago.

what do you mean?

LvilleSlggr73
Apr 21, 2008, 8:26 PM
what do you mean?

I was wondering the same thing. If they are saying that because of the bold assertive design that it would've been better off being proposed for one of the aforementioned cities, that's just ridiculous to me. This no more belongs in any one specific or size city than the other. Louisville is a perfectly suitable place for this building in my humble opinion. Are these cities more sophisticated or something that they deserve the building or it would be a better fit there than Louisville? That's laughable to me. When looking at renderings of the city with MP included, it certainly adds to it and stands out, which it would not do to the degree it does here in Toronto or Chicago or any other city with dozens or hundreds of skycrapers as tall or taller than this one. The location on the riverfront ensures that this will not be overshadowed by other buildings even if they are built taller in the future. I'm not so sure the same thing could be said if this 700 ft tall tower were built in either of those cities in between other towers that are in cases several hundred feet taller unless it was on the edge of the skyline and even then, both those cities are extremely impressive and this building would probably have to be a few hundred feet taller itself to stand out like it would here.
Myke

ethereal_reality
Apr 21, 2008, 8:47 PM
vistaridge likes to 'stir the pot' as they say.

His comment makes absolutely no sense.
The building was designed for Louisville and belongs in Louisville.

LvilleSlggr73
Apr 21, 2008, 8:58 PM
vistaridge likes to 'stir the pot' as they say.

His comment makes absolutely no sense.
The building was designed for Louisville and belongs in Louisville.

I agree it belongs here and nowhere else. It was designed specifically for that spot. I have wondered, though, the designers said that it was built on the legs because of the limited space or something to that effect, but wouldn't a straight up tower have had just as small or smaller footprint? I may be remembering wrong details, but I thought that was part of it and now looking at it, I'm thinking that the space required for multiple legs and purposes requires more surface space than just a single floor plate. Not that I mind that, since it is a stunning design.

Myke

vistaridge
Apr 22, 2008, 1:40 AM
vistaridge likes to 'stir the pot' as they say.

His comment makes absolutely no sense.
The building was designed for Louisville and belongs in Louisville.

I may stir the pot but its what keeps you guys checking back. Take a shot at explaining what part of the post makes "absolutely no sense" and lets discuss it civil.

101 folks - The building was not designed for Louisville anymore than any other building you see was designed for that city outside of governmental or museums and the like. Hire an architect, go through the process and then educate us will you. If you want to buy the design rights tomorrow and build it or part of it in Nashville, Toronto, LA you can as long it complies w/ the physics of the site and codes. People have taken my buildings and duplicated as I have borrowed other components. "A genius stands on the shoulders of those before" Einstein, I believe and MP was borrowed and inpart created.
I've already explained my opinion of why it doesn't belong. Why doesn't someone take a shot at why it would fit into the context of its surroundings as it relates to the 100-150 year old historic buildings that are there that make the Historic Central Business District the home to so many successful businesses and homeowners. Better yet lets plant it in anywhere suburbia USA, right in the middle of a shopping mall - if you really want to see it, what ever it is in all it's glory.

Is it attractive? - well sure - its man made, it challenges principles and it makes for good "pot stiring" and "conversation" but isn't that what is interesting in the end about "it."

Outside of that - don't worry that the numbers don't work. Lord how many prototype cars have been designed never to make the show room floors - same principle applies - numbers don't work - design very interesting.


Now cover and set on simmer.....

duckster
Apr 24, 2008, 8:23 PM
I do not know whether this is good news, but I have noticed that the people behind Museum Plaza have updated their website. Actually they have completely revamped it. Why would they do that, if they are getting ready to fold under the credit pressure?

LvilleSlggr73
Apr 24, 2008, 11:34 PM
I do not know whether this is good news, but I have noticed that the people behind Museum Plaza have updated their website. Actually they have completely revamped it. Why would they do that, if they are getting ready to fold under the credit pressure?

Apparently just because they don't know what they are doing and like spending their hard earned money on a project that doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell. :) LOL, j/k, in all honesty, a website revamp is not too major a thing, but would lead one to believe that they aren't in too bad shape or else, why waste time and money to pay the web designer to change the site for a project that they believe is going to fail. I think they are smart people who surround themselves with smart people who know what they are doing and still have hope that this project is alive and well but napping right now. Time will tell if it was a pipe dream or not.

Myke

CapitalCity
Apr 26, 2008, 10:41 PM
i think that building looks soooo cool!!! i hope ill get to visit it sometime when it gets completed! :D

futuresooner
Apr 27, 2008, 2:39 AM
So many project sites have been updated that aren't anything else than an approved project right now. Look at Signature Tower in Nashville, what a joke right now!

Dan in Chicago
Apr 27, 2008, 9:49 AM
I've already explained my opinion of why it doesn't belong. Why doesn't someone take a shot at why it would fit into the context of its surroundings as it relates to the 100-150 year old historic buildings that are there that make the Historic Central Business District the home to so many successful businesses and homeowners.

As European cities have learned, the best complement to historic buildings is usually something very modern that acts as a foil to them. A modern building done well offsets the strengths of the older buildings because it's so different - think of the pyramid in the Louvre or the Hearst Tower in New York. The worst thing to do would be to insert a building that "fits in" because it just won't. Building materials are mass-produced in different ways today, and architects don't have the training nor do builders have the craftsmanship to design buildings in historic styles. That's why postmodern buildings usually look so flat compared to what they're imitating.

I'm not an expert on Louisville, but the city does have a bit of a tradition of building daring architecture. The Humana Building was on the far edge of style in its day, and there's also that very unusual Frank Lloyd Wright tower outside of downtown, for what it's worth.

By the way, the height should really be changed on the thread's title. The design is only 696 feet high. Yes I know, the news stories and promotional literature all say 703, but you have to realize the people who put those numbers out don't care about heights like we do, and they don't know the standards for measuring heights. Blueprints don't lie. There's some mistake in the 703' figure, it was probably measured from the river or something.

zx14
Apr 27, 2008, 2:35 PM
This whole thing has been a huge mistake from the start and now money has been lost and the whole project looks like it will be scrapped. Same here in Lex for our new building. That along with Signature Tower in Nash will not be built. Condos? go south my friends to better weather cities with booming economies like Austin.

vistaridge
Apr 28, 2008, 12:32 AM
Apparently just because they don't know what they are doing and like spending their hard earned money on a project that doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell. :) LOL, j/k, in all honesty, a website revamp is not too major a thing, but would lead one to believe that they aren't in too bad shape or else, why waste time and money to pay the web designer to change the site for a project that they believe is going to fail. I think they are smart people who surround themselves with smart people who know what they are doing and still have hope that this project is alive and well but napping right now. Time will tell if it was a pipe dream or not.

Myke

actually the developer team husband and wife are buffalo farmers and astute art collectors w/ no development experience outside of 21c. The driving force behind the idea of MP was to deter development from the burbs. At one time all of their promotional sites noted "ART DRIVES COMMERCE" as their moto/marque. They may have changed recently. I'm not sure I get the connection at least I missed that chapter in economics 101 but egos and a substantial trust fund can create reality from ideas that would normally never come to fruition in a conventional world.
That being said, look what Owsley Frazier pulled off w/ his personal collection. He created a fantastic arms museum in the CBD and it is an asset.

vistaridge
Apr 28, 2008, 12:37 AM
As European cities have learned, the best complement to historic buildings is usually something very modern that acts as a foil to them. A modern building done well offsets the strengths of the older buildings because it's so different - think of the pyramid in the Louvre or the Hearst Tower in New York. The worst thing to do would be to insert a building that "fits in" because it just won't. Building materials are mass-produced in different ways today, and architects don't have the training nor do builders have the craftsmanship to design buildings in historic styles. That's why postmodern buildings usually look so flat compared to what they're imitating.

I'm not an expert on Louisville, but the city does have a bit of a tradition of building daring architecture. The Humana Building was on the far edge of style in its day, and there's also that very unusual Frank Lloyd Wright tower outside of downtown, for what it's worth.

By the way, the height should really be changed on the thread's title. The design is only 696 feet high. Yes I know, the news stories and promotional literature all say 703, but you have to realize the people who put those numbers out don't care about heights like we do, and they don't know the standards for measuring heights. Blueprints don't lie. There's some mistake in the 703' figure, it was probably measured from the river or something.



Dan - thanks for the intellectual interjection. You are correct in your analysis no doubt can't argue w/ your points.

ethereal_reality
Apr 28, 2008, 2:04 AM
^^^
The 'unusual' FLW tower you mentioned
was designed by William Wesley Peters.
Mr. Peters is Frank Lloyd Wright's son-in-law.

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/3299/11loueu2.jpg

Dan in Chicago
Apr 28, 2008, 5:46 AM
^ I know, but it was based on an FLW design. It was probably just a drawing or two, but from what I've read the basic form and the facade pattern belong to the master.

The best thing ever written about Frank Lloyd Wright was in the tongue-in-cheek reference book An Incompleat Education. It says Frank Lloyd Wright was, "by his own admission, the greatest architect of all time."

^^ Thanks vistaridge, of course I'm biased though -- Museum Plaza is my favorite active proposal in the world, now that 80 South Street is dead. Tower Verre is a close second.

vistaridge
Apr 29, 2008, 12:03 AM
^ I know, but it was based on an FLW design. It was probably just a drawing or two, but from what I've read the basic form and the facade pattern belong to the master.

The best thing ever written about Frank Lloyd Wright was in the tongue-in-cheek reference book An Incompleat Education. It says Frank Lloyd Wright was, "by his own admission, the greatest architect of all time."

^^ Thanks vistaridge, of course I'm biased though -- Museum Plaza is my favorite active proposal in the world, now that 80 South Street is dead. Tower Verre is a close second.


lol
If he was alive - someone would give him a good stiff kick in the rump. Fabulous design but WHAT WERE YOU THINKING - How the hell do you keep the windows clean. answer....you don't. One building where a corner office ain't a good thing.

ethereal_reality
Apr 29, 2008, 1:08 AM
Museum Plaza was in my top 3 as well.
The other two are Chicago Spire and Tower Verre.

Has anyone seen this 'prototype' design by OMA?

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/6936/louisvilleforerunneromako2.jpg

It's interesting to see OMA's designs morphing into Museum Plaza.

duckster
Jun 1, 2008, 3:50 PM
Just a little update. Driving past the future MP lobby/entry building on Main st. I've noticed, that they put large colorful MP neon posters over the empty store fronts. At least their marketing department is still in full swing. Hopefully the building department will follow suit.

duckster
Jun 14, 2008, 4:33 PM
Courier-Journal 6/14/08

---------------------
Electrical tower to be taken down

Developers of the $490 million, 62-story project at Seventh Street and River Road said yesterday they are investing $14.5 million to have Louisville Gas & Electric create a new electrical transmission system for downtown and remove electrical lines under the site.

The work started earlier this week and will culminate in January, when crews finish removing a 10-story transmission tower that has been an eyesore on the downtown skyline for a generation.

The futuristic skyscraper is meant to reshape Louisville's skyline when completed in 2011. It is the vision of arts patron Laura Lee Brown and her husband, Steve Wilson; developer Steve Poe; and attorney Craig Greenberg.

Greenberg said the four developers still haven't secured the $300 million construction loan necessary to complete the project because of instability in the financial markets. But that hasn't stopped them from investing more than $38 million of their own money at the site.

"We've decided to go ahead and make that investment now because we're so dedicated to this project," Steve Wilson said. "This is a huge investment in downtown."

Greenberg couldn't say what will happen in January if the developers haven't landed the loan.

"The best I can answer that today is to say our team has a significant investment in this project. We are personally and civically committed to completing it and we're going to find a way to get it done," he said. "It's a question of when, not if."

Poe said the utility work being done over the next few months will help the project move forward more quickly when the loan is secured.

"We have a great project … and a bad, but improving, worldwide economic market," Greenberg said. "We're ready to go as soon as they solve their problems and give credit to good projects like Museum Plaza."

LG&E spokesman Chip Keeling said the utility must build a redundant system to deliver electricity to downtown, power it up and ensure it works before disassembling the old lines and tower. He said the 10-story tower will come down "like an erector set, bolt by bolt."

"Removal isn't that difficult, we just have to make sure the new system is working properly first," Keeling said.

Museum Plaza was named one of the most architecturally innovative skyscrapers in the world by The Wall Street Journal in 2006.

When completed, the building will include three towers of various heights that look like an upside-down, three-legged chair. Inside, there will be condominiums, offices, shops, a museum and a Westin hotel, among other features.

Louisville will issue $47 million in bonds to help pay for a flood wall at the building and new streets, lighting and other infrastructure improvements.

The state of Kentucky has agreed to help the project with a 30-year taxing district that allows 80 percent of the taxes generated by the development to pay for infrastructure improvements. The state also will rebate sales taxes on construction materials used at the site.

No public money has been used so far at the building, Greenberg said.

Crews had been digging the foundation at the site in January when severe vibrations rattled 19th century buildings on Main Street, causing work to be halted. That work has not resumed, but Greenberg said crews will use a corkscrew drill, which will minimize vibrations, to install foundation beams when it does.

It will be the next phase of work after the utilities are relocated. Greenberg said it probably will be necessary to have the loan in place before doing so.

The development agreement between the developers and the city calls for work to begin in July, or the parties would have to negotiate a contract amendment. Greenberg said the work happening with the utilities counts. "It's real construction. It's a real start," he said.
----------------

King weatherman3
Jun 19, 2008, 2:28 AM
When get Start Museum Plaza???

What about captal Plaza?? when start???

EmpireCityGuy
Jun 23, 2008, 1:00 AM
As European cities have learned, the best complement to historic buildings is usually something very modern that acts as a foil to them. A modern building done well offsets the strengths of the older buildings because it's so different - think of the pyramid in the Louvre or the Hearst Tower in New York. The worst thing to do would be to insert a building that "fits in" because it just won't. Building materials are mass-produced in different ways today, and architects don't have the training nor do builders have the craftsmanship to design buildings in historic styles. That's why postmodern buildings usually look so flat compared to what they're imitating.

I'm not an expert on Louisville, but the city does have a bit of a tradition of building daring architecture. The Humana Building was on the far edge of style in its day, and there's also that very unusual Frank Lloyd Wright tower outside of downtown, for what it's worth.

By the way, the height should really be changed on the thread's title. The design is only 696 feet high. Yes I know, the news stories and promotional literature all say 703, but you have to realize the people who put those numbers out don't care about heights like we do, and they don't know the standards for measuring heights. Blueprints don't lie. There's some mistake in the 703' figure, it was probably measured from the river or something.

I don't know that it is so much something "learned" as it is something cultural.

vistaridge
Aug 1, 2008, 1:46 AM
When get Start Museum Plaza???

What about captal Plaza?? when start???

project is officially dead, as if it was ever alive.

King weatherman3
Aug 3, 2008, 4:16 PM
oh, but, i am wait built going up. i am so sick it. pastpost all time.

Magnus1
Aug 22, 2008, 3:25 AM
no museum plaza sucks! i loved the look of it. i love louisville. i'm totally bummed.

goddamn economy. i'm voting for obama. does he like skyscrapers?

futuresooner
Aug 22, 2008, 5:28 PM
Museum Plaza failed, oh well, at least they'll get Capital Plaza.:)

King weatherman3
Aug 22, 2008, 10:26 PM
Maybe i guess Louisville not good planning of space, future Capital Plaza will be never built, Museum plaza is failed i guess never built. i hope sure.

DaVilleisGr8
Aug 23, 2008, 12:24 AM
Vistaridge doesn't know that MP is dead anymore than you or I. The fact is, the developers are spending $14 million of their own money to clear the utilities off of the site. Until that stops and there is an official announcement, MP is not dead.

Msradell
Aug 23, 2008, 12:39 AM
goddamn economy. i'm voting for obama. does he like skyscrapers?
And how is voting for Obama going to help? The only change he'll make is to raise taxes so much all we'll have left is change! Politicians don't make or break the economy, the economy does that all by itself. What we need to help the economy is more energy, not more politicians.

duckster
Aug 23, 2008, 12:38 PM
And I think a project like Museum Plaza could inject some of that energy Msradell is talking about into at least the local economy. Louisville is due for some skyscraper energy.

King weatherman3
Aug 23, 2008, 1:25 PM
Louisville's skyscraper is failed that not good planning of space. they not good develpment.

cth0511
Aug 26, 2008, 1:55 AM
Louisville's skyscraper is failed that not good planning of space. they not good develpment.

Huh? :shrug:

ethereal_reality
Aug 26, 2008, 2:07 AM
Msradell
Let me guess.....you're a fan of Fox News.

Maybe we could use some of the trillions of dollars spent
on the Iraq War toward infrastructure in the United States.

By the way...Museum Plaza is one of my favorite projects.
It's an exceptional example of thinking outside the envelope.
Good for Kentucky...and GREAT for the wonderful citizens of Louisville.

Aleks
Aug 26, 2008, 4:06 AM
Yeah, I agree. It's a nice building and a great way of thinking outside the envelope like you said. It seems like intricate designs are "in" right now but this boxy tower shows who has the best design.

louisville_sky
Aug 26, 2008, 1:04 PM
Museum Plaza failed, oh well, at least they'll get Capital Plaza.:)

Who says it failed?

As people have already mentioned, utilities are still being cleared for the project. It is indeed still alive! Come on... have faith, man :-)

King weatherman3
Aug 27, 2008, 10:46 PM
Guess what!

Museum Plaza start in January!

duckster
Aug 30, 2008, 3:06 AM
I believe it when I see it!

vistaridge
Aug 31, 2008, 3:26 AM
Vistaridge doesn't know that MP is dead anymore than you or I. The fact is, the developers are spending $14 million of their own money to clear the utilities off of the site. Until that stops and there is an official announcement, MP is not dead.

The site is for sale. They can't sell a site in disaray. Improving a site never precludes vertical construction of specific type.

Define Developer - There are no fee developers as of now for MP. Certain conditions must be corrected and obligations fulfilled. Browns selling millions in RE in Oldham County to cover cost.

I swear another building will have to built and occupied before some will let loose of this tale that was never to be.

Give it 6-9 months I suspect you'll see other plans develop. Perhaps not the sexy illusion of a pretty architect rendering that couldn't be built for less than $200/ft. Yet, a practical, stately addition to our riverfront that doesn't require $150 million of your tax dollars.

Now would you like that?

King weatherman3
Sep 3, 2008, 12:43 AM
I believe it when I see it!

yea, that long way. :(

King weatherman3
Sep 3, 2008, 12:45 AM
And how is voting for Obama going to help? The only change he'll make is to raise taxes so much all we'll have left is change! Politicians don't make or break the economy, the economy does that all by itself. What we need to help the economy is more energy, not more politicians.

I vote for omaba they help of economy of skyscraper, Louisville will be growth of skyscraper than MP by future

LvilleSlggr73
Sep 30, 2008, 10:09 PM
Nothing new yet on this project? Someone said about a month ago that this site was for sale, but I've not heard anything else about it. Does anyone know if it's actually for sale or not and what is going on if anything on the project?

Myke

jmecklenborg
Oct 1, 2008, 5:41 AM
I traveled through Louisville and went out of my way to see the site. They still have Museum Plaza promo posters up on the old buildings that were to be the base but there is no equipment on site.

King weatherman3
Oct 1, 2008, 11:59 PM
what about it 'Captial Plaza" ??

King weatherman3
Oct 12, 2008, 2:46 PM
city center would cancalled??

http://www.downtowndevelopmentcorp.org/images/louisville%20Water%20Co.%20Block%20sm.JPG

http://204.17.36.44/Briefs/Images/Louisville-Live-Aerial-05.jpg

i hope center city would be appoved.

LvilleSlggr73
Dec 18, 2008, 10:06 PM
It's been over 2 months now....does anyone in Louisville or anywhere else for that matter have any new info on MP or any of the other projects going on in Louisville....I'm thinking City Center is going to be an awesome extention to 4th Street Live especially with a new tower and the way it looks in the rendering is pretty cool...hope the tower is a bit taller than 15 stories though. Anyway, any updated info would be appreciated.

Myke

King weatherman3
Dec 19, 2008, 9:46 PM
captial plaza will be appoved in 2009, Louisville will more skyscraper tower, maybe tallest building by future!

Jibba
Dec 20, 2008, 2:57 AM
I'm really hoping this one sticks it out and ends up skyward in the future. Easily one of my top five favorite proposals in the country.

King weatherman3
Dec 21, 2008, 10:38 PM
Museum plaza start next mouth about in Jan, I guess. Louisville keep growth of skyscraper, etc....

vistaridge
Dec 27, 2008, 1:16 AM
It's been over 2 months now....does anyone in Louisville or anywhere else for that matter have any new info on MP or any of the other projects going on in Louisville....I'm thinking City Center is going to be an awesome extention to 4th Street Live especially with a new tower and the way it looks in the rendering is pretty cool...hope the tower is a bit taller than 15 stories though. Anyway, any updated info would be appreciated.

Myke

Actually:
The rendering is the same as proposed for many other cities. Nothing unique.
4th street live has not grossed one dollar since it opened.

4th street live has been subsidized by public dollars since it opened to the tune of $5M.

4th street live's shelf life is another couple of years.

City Center will not build out as depicted by the rendering.

You may want to investigate this project proposal a little further than the rendering as it is making for stormy political waters for the Mayor and Cordish developer because it included among other outrages things a $3M bail out of 4th street, a parking structure valued at $11M gifted for $2M a 99 year lease for a dollar on Louisville Gardens and it goes on and on.

arenn
Dec 27, 2008, 2:03 PM
Museum Plaza, sadly, appears to be dead.

LvilleSlggr73
Dec 27, 2008, 3:55 PM
LOL, thanks for the opinions and information....I guess we'll see what happens. It'll be too bad if 4th Street Live does fall apart within a couple of years as it does seem to have livened up the downtown area. Oh well I guess we'll just have to deal with the consequences. I just hate it that citizens have poured so much into 4th Street, etc and it hasn't made one penny since it opened and has over 4 million visitors a year. Sad, just sad.

Myke

King weatherman3
Dec 27, 2008, 8:56 PM
Why? museum plaza be dead??

what about Captial Plaza???

LvilleSlggr73
Dec 28, 2008, 8:24 PM
The site is for sale. They can't sell a site in disaray. Improving a site never precludes vertical construction of specific type.

Define Developer - There are no fee developers as of now for MP. Certain conditions must be corrected and obligations fulfilled. Browns selling millions in RE in Oldham County to cover cost.

I swear another building will have to built and occupied before some will let loose of this tale that was never to be.

Give it 6-9 months I suspect you'll see other plans develop. Perhaps not the sexy illusion of a pretty architect rendering that couldn't be built for less than $200/ft. Yet, a practical, stately addition to our riverfront that doesn't require $150 million of your tax dollars.

Now would you like that?


Would you care to share with this information that you are claiming about the MP site being for sale? I've tried looking it up but amazingly can't find anything about it at all. I would think that if the site was for sale, we'd know about it because after all the touting it'd be big new, no? Anyway, not trying to start a fight, but one of my last posts I did ask about this and received no response so I'd like to know as I'm sure others would too where this info came from, pretty please. Or Is it some kind of insider info that you are unable to share with the commoners? I just would really like to know. I also wouldn't mind seeing the info on 4th Street Live not grossing a single dollar too as I find that totally amazing that it hasn't. I'm not saying it has but only that I can't believe it hasn't yet. It's been what, 4 years and over 4 million visitors a year and if just 1/2 of them spent $10 while there, that'd be $80,000,000. But with all the clubs, shops, restaurants, etc, i'm willing to bet it's more than that. How much did the damn thing cost again? Anyway, if it hasn't made money yet, that's a shame but it eventually should, if it makes it past it's projected failure date of approximately a couple of years.

LvilleSlggr73
Dec 28, 2008, 8:45 PM
Well, smack my ass and call me Sally, I did find something about 4th Street Live and about it's not having made any money yet. The thing is that it actually said it was actually the way the deal was done that was why it hadn't technically made a profit. I'm willing to bet the project itself has made money but probably had other things tied to it and that's why they say it hasn't yet and haven't paid the city any monies yet.

I remember seeing an interview with Lynda Carter, you know the Wonder Woman and she said that she had a backend deal with Warner Bros to get a percentage but she never got a dime because they grouped a large number of projects together or something and most of those were duds when compared to WW and that's why she never got anything beyond her salary. Probably pretty much the same thing here.

The article did say that that was the reason they wanted to build City Center or something to that effect and were willing to put $250-$430 million of their own money into it and about $24.4 million of it's own money. I don't want a bad deal for Louisville either, so I'm hoping city council knows what they're doing for the sake of ALL of Louisville.

vistaridge
Jan 4, 2009, 4:02 AM
LOL, thanks for the opinions and information....I guess we'll see what happens. It'll be too bad if 4th Street Live does fall apart within a couple of years as it does seem to have livened up the downtown area. Oh well I guess we'll just have to deal with the consequences. I just hate it that citizens have poured so much into 4th Street, etc and it hasn't made one penny since it opened and has over 4 million visitors a year. Sad, just sad.

Myke

well that is your local gov burocrating private enterprise it is an oxymoron. I agree w/ you sad....the best thing for this city to focus on is outing this Mayor and lets get on the business of buiding this city the way the citizens want it and on the prinicple that made it a great city at the turn of the century.

samoen313
Jan 4, 2009, 5:01 AM
museum plaza is not dead. steve kelley is still fully committed to the project. new loans and financing are being sought, but the project hasn't been abandoned. rex still has several people representing this building full-time, so for a firm with only one other active project, they wouldn't be keeping people around if there wasn't still a push to move forward.

Plasticman
Jan 6, 2009, 6:56 AM
museum plaza is not dead. steve kelley is still fully committed to the project. new loans and financing are being sought, but the project hasn't been abandoned. rex still has several people representing this building full-time, so for a firm with only one other active project, they wouldn't be keeping people around if there wasn't still a push to move forward.

I would hope it isn't dead but look at what is happening elsewhere for a measuring stick. Comparable buildings in comparable cities like Nashville's Signature Tower is being downsized from over 1,000' to likely 850' or possibly less if it gets built at all, Charlotte is experiencing a lot of unfinished projects (although they snuck Wachovia in just in time before the finance problems). Louisville is in the same boat as everyone else....grand ideas at the worst possible time.

King weatherman3
Jan 8, 2009, 10:23 PM
Bad news: river park place is cancalled, sorry :-(

samoen313
Jan 9, 2009, 2:57 AM
this isn't a quick buck project like signature tower or half of what is going up in charlotte. it's a university and cultural institution on top of hotel, res, and offices. this project has had a lot of investment and interest and steve wilson will keep it running until financing comes through. financing is so hard to come by at this point a lot of stalling will happen. but that in no way means cancellation. it's tough to wait, but do just that, and in a year if this thing hasn't moved, we might ask more questions.

vistaridge
Jan 12, 2009, 3:26 PM
museum plaza is not dead. steve kelley is still fully committed to the project. new loans and financing are being sought, but the project hasn't been abandoned. rex still has several people representing this building full-time, so for a firm with only one other active project, they wouldn't be keeping people around if there wasn't still a push to move forward.

who is steve kelley?

who is rex?

what firm are you talking about?

What role is Steve Poe playing in it? He is the published developer.

I'd be fully committed if I was spending someone else's money - wouldn't you?

samoen313
Jan 12, 2009, 5:19 PM
i meant steve wilson, not kelley. my good friend is his nephew and i keep forgetting the last name isn't the same.

rex is the firm behind museum plaza headed by joshua prince-ramus. rex was once the new york office of rem koolhaas' office of metropolitan architecture (oma) but split off two years ago and took with them the projects focused in the new york office, those being museum plaza, the wyly theater in dallas, culture center in oslo, among others.

vistaridge
Jan 15, 2009, 12:22 AM
i meant steve wilson, not kelley. my good friend is his nephew and i keep forgetting the last name isn't the same.

rex is the firm behind museum plaza headed by joshua prince-ramus. rex was once the new york office of rem koolhaas' office of metropolitan architecture (oma) but split off two years ago and took with them the projects focused in the new york office, those being museum plaza, the wyly theater in dallas, culture center in oslo, among others.

Thank you for clarification on these issues. I think that architect only had experience on "governmental or endowment" projects no conventional private sector function - right. Why are you promulgating this project when it is evident it is done as is.

Wilson plays no vital role and has absolutely no experience aside from farming and his wife's boutique hotel - and you are talking to his nephew's friend. Let's try not treat this forum as a gossip channel.

Let me be clear - forget waiting a year or two or three. Goldman Sachs will never - fund this project as is - or I'll buy everyone on this thread a steak dinner.
Again, the developer is "GONE" "MIA" - Goldman is trying to survive and no financing institution will fund such gross non performing assets again - even in a design stage even when the owners are naive enough to begin site activities, period, turn the page!!!!

I'm just f-ing pissed they have screwed up our river front, Poe, Wilson, Brown, Greenburg - the whole lot - after the tax payers have spent millions over the years to create a park and aesthetic front door to the city.

samoen313
Jan 17, 2009, 7:15 AM
while i know the "my friend says . . . " is always a dicey way to back up your knowledge both sources are relatively close to the mouth on this one. this differs from many of the tanked projects mentioned like signature in nashville and most of charlotte in that there are five sources of revenue within the project. not just residential (if this were all res, we could have written it off long ago) or offices (tenuous, but still a no-go, especially in louisville), this also has the museum, u of louisville component and a hotel. that isn't to say that one component is going to sell the project, but there's a diverse enough base of interests going into the projects to give it at least a little more hope than many other projects.

vistaridge
Jan 18, 2009, 3:34 AM
while i know the "my friend says . . . " is always a dicey way to back up your knowledge both sources are relatively close to the mouth on this one. this differs from many of the tanked projects mentioned like signature in nashville and most of charlotte in that there are five sources of revenue within the project. not just residential (if this were all res, we could have written it off long ago) or offices (tenuous, but still a no-go, especially in louisville), this also has the museum, u of louisville component and a hotel. that isn't to say that one component is going to sell the project, but there's a diverse enough base of interests going into the projects to give it at least a little more hope than many other projects.

I read you - sum of the parts, good point. However, the museum is not a revenue generator - so it can't carry it's burden of capital expense w/ which the other components must pick up the shortfall. So that has no reasonable approach to recap as far as a bank is considered. The office market won't suppport the $25/foot quotes on rent as nothing in Louisville has even come close to that threshold. And the last time I checked Abramson had run most competing fortune 1000 companies out. The res component won't generate enough presales based upon the lenders preconstruction requirements and U of L - well - my crystal ball says they may be broke before all is said and done. Not exactly a triple A rated anchor tenant and the board could never justify the rent quotes.
Its all just - interesting cocktail talk but there is no basic operating mechanism of the whole project, except one.
Have the parties that are proposing such a building had any experience in real estate development on this magnitude before - do they intend to own or flip? I mean aside of the 90 room boutique motel.
Finally curious whe makes the calls: Greenburg, Wilson, Brown or Poe?

Last question - I'll send you in a PM

King weatherman3
Jan 25, 2009, 9:17 PM
Museum Plaza under counst by soon.

futuresooner
Jan 29, 2009, 2:14 AM
Crock of crap, and half of that opinion comes from horrid grammar.

King weatherman3
Feb 18, 2009, 9:04 PM
what about museum plaza start of under counst??????

and captail plaza will be cancalled. i need more skyscraper building.

King weatherman3
Feb 27, 2009, 3:56 PM
I saw on webcam something on there from crane, maybe start of built, i guess

eburress
Feb 27, 2009, 10:29 PM
I saw on webcam something on there from crane, maybe start of built, i guess

I sure hope not. If there was ever a building that needed to be canceled, this is it. Gawd!

Aleks
Feb 28, 2009, 4:20 AM
Lies! This building is amazing! Too bad it's not taller.

King weatherman3
Mar 1, 2009, 11:43 PM
that Electronics tower will tear down, i think Museum Plaza will be under Construction by soon start, i guess.

King weatherman3
Mar 1, 2009, 11:44 PM
Lies! This building is amazing! Too bad it's not taller.

what Lies??

Tom Servo
Mar 2, 2009, 2:24 AM
I sure hope not. If there was ever a building that needed to be canceled, this is it. Gawd!

:haha:

KB0679
Mar 2, 2009, 11:20 PM
this differs from many of the tanked projects mentioned like signature in nashville and most of charlotte...

Hold on, I just caught this. While a few have been put on hold or cancelled, most of the projects in Charlotte have NOT tanked. Several cranes still dot our skyline. Now back to our regularly scheduled discussion...

futuresooner
Mar 3, 2009, 2:16 PM
One quick thing. Signature is being redesigned and shortened, not cancelled.

Our new conventiov center will definetly boost the city a little to get stuff moving again.

vistaridge
Mar 12, 2009, 1:18 AM
3/09 - and the MP thread can probably be closed


Good riddings!

King weatherman3
Mar 21, 2009, 10:10 PM
almost done LG&E tower, after that will be beging under counst..

futuresooner
Mar 22, 2009, 6:21 PM
almost done LG&E tower, after that will be beging under counst..

Whatever. :slob:

King weatherman3
Apr 17, 2009, 1:28 PM
something on there set up of tent what for?? i think not sure talk about museum plaza re-conust. duno when start it??

LvilleSlggr73
May 19, 2009, 6:12 AM
Ok, so can anyone confirm the death of this project? I hate it that it does seem to be dead, but after months now of no news at all, it does not appear as though it's going to resume construction. It would've been a great addition to the skyline and would've attracted a lot of attention to Louisville, but if it's not gonna happen I hope a new proposal for a tower comes together soon. Any info on the other significant high rise proposals like Capital Plaza and the twin tower/garage combo?

Myke

Tom In Chicago
May 19, 2009, 7:52 PM
^Sadly we may never know. . . unlike project announcements and/or groundbreaking ceremonies, little fanfare is involved when a project dies. . . typically they just never obtain the financing needed and the project just fades away. . .

King weatherman3
May 19, 2009, 11:21 PM
Ok, so can anyone confirm the death of this project? I hate it that it does seem to be dead, but after months now of no news at all, it does not appear as though it's going to resume construction. It would've been a great addition to the skyline and would've attracted a lot of attention to Louisville, but if it's not gonna happen I hope a new proposal for a tower comes together soon. Any info on the other significant high rise proposals like Capital Plaza and the twin tower/garage combo?

Myke



what new proposals??? i hear new proposals tower?