[Dac150]

At this point it doesn't matter. NYC has to catch up to Honk Kong and definitely Dubai.
And become the skyscraper capital of the world once again.

'Catching up' to a city in terms of buildings or architecture for that matter is not an objective, but for developers to build what is needed for a city's demand and capacity.

[NewYorker2009]

some people dont want to build buildings taller than ESB b/c they want to keep it a symbol of NY

There are symbols of New York that aren't just tall skyscrapers. There is the Statue of Liberty, Times Square, Brooklyn Bridge, etc. The Chrysler Building isn't the tallest and it is still a symbol of New York. Obviously the New World Trade Center Towers will be a big symbol of New York just as the Twin Towers were. It isn't that NY refuses to build tall it's just that money is a big issue today and back then we felt like we could do anything like have the World's Tallest Buildings and we did numerous times. There was Woolworth, Trump, Chrysler, Empire State, and the World Trade Towers so we were on top and we will be again. Did you know the Empire State Building cost only $41 Million to construct. The World Trade Center Transit Hub costs nearly $4 Billion. One World Trade Center aka Freedom Tower is costing $3.1 Billion, so the Transit Hub is more expensive than a supertall building which is ridiculous. We wil have the Hudson Towers in about 5-10 years so that will give ESB some competition since the tall one reaches 1,300 feet.

[SkyscrapersOfNewYork]

is this tower even going anywhere?

[Bucktown718]

yeah will it going to be build? Midtown need something same in size as empire state building or even taller don't you people think?

[Dac150]

Like I've said in the past, no news is good news. I rather hear nothing right now then see a negative article being posted.

[NYguy]

is this tower even going anywhere?

There's a reason this thread is still in the proposal section. If there is news, it will be posted here, no need to ask the question. For future reference (and to everyone else), that goes for all proposals.

[NYguy]

Like these photos showing the scale of the complex, back when Brookfield was thinking bigger. You can see how it would have fit in with Brookfield's Hudson Yards proposal, as well as the Empire State. Not shown in the model are the massive Hotel Penn or MSG/Penn Station proposals.

JT'sPhotos (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27966482@N03/4447743903/sizes/l/)

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4011/4447743903_b617cec6e3_b.jpg


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4011/4447744413_35405553f0_b.jpg

[SkyscrapersOfNewYork]

a question for you NYguy, in your opinion do you believe these towers will be built?

[NYguy]

a question for you NYguy, in your opinion do you believe these towers will be built?

I see no reason why they wouldn't be built eventually. Brookfield has held onto this property for years in anticipation of development. It's right accross the street from what will be the expanded Penn Station, and sits in between what will be the redeveloped Penn Station area, and the redeveloped West Side (hudson yards). There are no approvals neccessary for these towers to be built. Like the other office tower proposals in Midtown, the wait is for a tenant, which would lead to financing. This is part of the plan for commercial expansion in Midtown, where new, modern office development will take place. Whatever happens in the area will be phased in over time, like the redevelopment of the Times Square area, which is nearing completion (with 11 Times Square) and won't really be complete until the Port Authority Bus Terminal tower (20 Times Square) is built.

[scalziand]

Photo of another model that surfaced on WNY. Looks like the larger tower has a podium, for trading floors maybe?

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs562.snc3/30690_556785705334_51301803_32254998_479533_n.jpg
NoyokA (http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5499&p=324799&viewfull=1#post324799)

[NYguy]

I like the model. I forget what the podium was for, but probably trading floors. The complex was originally planned as a 4 tower complex, with two office and two smaller residential towers.

[CoolCzech]

JT'sPhotos (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27966482@N03/4447743903/sizes/l/)

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4011/4447743903_b617cec6e3_b.jpg


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4011/4447744413_35405553f0_b.jpg[/QUOTE]

Heh, with all the bulging shapes, tapered and rounded ends, and twists they look more like a giant sex toy ensemble than a skyscraper development. :)

[thelanetrain17]

does anyone know what the deal is with this project??????

[SkyscrapersOfNewYork]

does anyone know what the deal is with this project??????

it will likely be built, all they need is the economy to make it practical.though i would say that 15 Penn Plaza has paved the way for all the towers that will make up the newly revitalized West Side.

[thelanetrain17]

SICK! thanks for the update

another question, where do you get all your information from? like renderings and status reports?

[NYguy]

^ A lot of this information comes through the media.

it will likely be built, all they need is the economy to make it practical.though i would say that 15 Penn Plaza has paved the way for all the towers that will make up the newly revitalized West Side.

It's really the other way around. These buildings are as of right, meaning the zoning is already in place. 15 Penn Plaza was sort of the last piece to the puzzle, at least until the Penn East and Penn West situation gets settled.

As far as when Manhattan West would get built, the economy has to turn all the way around. Brookfield has to charge very high rents because of the costs associated with building the platform over the rails. I would expect 15 Penn to get underway before this one, but with the Moynihan Station project in the early stages, I wouldn't be completely shocked if there was renewed interest in this one from potential tenants.

[SkyscrapersOfNewYork]

^ A lot of this information comes through the media.



It's really the other way around. These buildings are as of right, meaning the zoning is already in place. 15 Penn Plaza was sort of the last piece to the puzzle, at least until the Penn East and Penn West situation gets settled.

As far as when Manhattan West would get built, the economy has to turn all the way around. Brookfield has to charge very high rents because of the costs associated with building the platform over the rails. I would expect 15 Penn to get underway before this one, but with the Moynihan Station project in the early stages, I wouldn't be completely shocked if there was renewed interest in this one from potential tenants.

oh definitely i agree with you,what i meant was that 15 Penn plaza perhaps has given developers a new incentive to build their own towers when the economy picks up.

[nim3]

does anyone know if this project by brookfield properties.......is proposed or is it currently under construction.???:shrug: :shrug: :shrug:

[Innsertnamehere]

proposed, after all, its in the proposed section.

[scalziand]

proposed, after all, its in the proposed section.

To add to that, no site prep has begun either.

[Zapatan]

A cool rendering from city-data.com

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/1634/w22inalsqh5ds5.jpg

[NYguy]

Cool, though it's the same as the one on page 8. Eventually we'll get a more detailed version of the towers if its to move forward in that exact configuration.

[BStyles]

To add to that, no site prep has begun either.

What site prep? The site sits on top of the Penn Station tracks. I would think that there would need to be some official, and serious relocating of the tracks and some service changes before anything can begin.

[NYguy]

They were beginning some "initial" site prep for the the platform. All things came to a halt however. A recap of the Brookfield/Manhattan West saga...



http://ny.therealdeal.com/articles/9008

Brookfield plans Manhattan West near Hudson Yards

02/07/08

Brookfield Properties has announced that it will develop a three-acre rail yard between Hudson Yards and Penn Station. Brookfield will begin building a platform over the rail yards in June.

The 5.4 million square feet of new office and mixed-use space will be called Manhattan West. The first tower at the $600 million development, which runs from 31st to 33rd Streets and Ninth Avenue to the Lincoln Tunnel, could be built by 2013. Brookfield is one of five developers to bid on Hudson Yards.




The size of the development has increased from the original size, and it seems the 4 tower plan has also officially been scrapped:

http://www.observer.com/2008/brookfield-says-it-s-making-progress-merrill-west-side-development

Brookfield Says It’s Making Progress With Merrill, West Side Development

by Eliot Brown
February 7, 2008

....It also looks like things have progressed a bit with Brookfield and its plans for an office complex two blocks west of Penn Station. When we last checked in with CEO Ric Clark in December, he told us that the site was likely to have two large office buildings, with about 5 million square feet in full.

Mr. Clark said today construction of a platform over the rail yards on the site would start as early as June, with completion in 2010. The new $600 million complex would be done by 2013, but Mr. Clark did not say in the call that he had an anchor tenant lined up, and without one, it would seem less likely that construction of the towers would start.




http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/21/nyregion/21westside.html?_r=1&ref=nyregion&oref=slogin

Work to Begin on Platform Over Tracks on the West Side

By CHARLES V. BAGLI
February 21, 2008

Despite a flagging economy, Brookfield Properties says it will start work in June on a $600 million platform over railroad tracks near Ninth Avenue, where it plans to build two towering office buildings.

Brookfield, a major commercial landlord in Manhattan, has owned the property between Ninth and Dyer Avenues, between 31st and 33rd Streets, for more than 22 years. But it has had difficulty luring a prominent company to what has long been regarded as Manhattan’s last real estate frontier.

The company now says the time is ripe to begin work. Development is pushing westward, and the site is only one block west of Pennsylvania Station. The vacancy rate for Manhattan office buildings is still relatively low, and the credit markets should recover fairly quickly from the subprime mortgage crisis, said Richard B. Clark, chief executive of Brookfield. “For a long time, we believed that the West Side would be the city’s next commercial zone,” Mr. Clark said. “It’s clear that the time is now to make something of this site.”

Brookfield’s project is no simple matter. More than half of the five-acre site is over railroad tracks, which extend from Pennsylvania Station to the West Side railyards. Brookfield must build a three-acre platform, while trains continue to run below, before it can start putting up its first building. It hopes to sign a major tenant during the two years the job is expected to take.

Brookfield’s architect, Skidmore, Owings & Merrill, has designed two towers, a 1.9-million-square-foot building at the northeast corner of the site and a 3.4-million-square-foot building at the southeast corner.

In many respects, the project is a warm-up for the West Side railyards, where five developers are competing for the development rights. At the railyards, between 10th and 12th Avenues, from 30th to 34th Streets, developers will have to build two 13-acre platforms, at an estimated cost of $1.5 billion. They would then have the right to build 12 million square feet of high-rise office and residential buildings. Brookfield is one of the companies expected to submit a second round of bids to the Metropolitan Transportation Authority on Tuesday. But with concerns about the economy growing, many real estate executives and government officials worry that developers may reduce their offers.

Brookfield is not alone in pushing forward with new office projects. Even so, some real estate executives warn that some of those projects could be postponed, especially if the developer lacks an anchor tenant, and new buildings may not rise over the West Side railyards for years.

Over the past five years, developers have largely ignored office projects in favor of erecting lucrative residential towers, even though the destruction of the World Trade Center sharply reduced available office space. In that time, developers built only 16 commercial buildings with a total of 14.4 million square feet, according to the Real Estate Board of New York.

As companies expanded, space became tight and commercial rents soared, with many prime buildings now fetching more than $100 a square foot in annual rent. So developers are once again putting up office towers, some without an anchor tenant. There are four towers under construction, with a combined total of 6.7 million square feet, and another four towers with 11.3 million square feet planned.

SJP Properties is building a 1.1-million-square-foot tower at Eighth Avenue and 42nd Street. To the north, Boston Properties is excavating a site between 54th and 55th Streets for a 39-story, 1-million-square-foot building that is scheduled to be finished in 2010. A year from now, Boston Properties and its partner, Related Companies, plan to start a second tower, with 900,000 square feet, at Eighth Avenue between 45th and 46th Streets.

“We obviously continue to feel good about west Midtown,” said Robert E. Selsam, senior vice president of Boston Properties.

At the World Trade Center site, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey is building the 2.6-million-square-foot Freedom Tower, and JPMorgan Chase has signed a deal to erect a 1.3-million-square-foot building nearby. And on Church Street, the developer Larry Silverstein is beginning work on what will be three 60-story skyscrapers with a total of 6.2 million square feet.


http://ny.therealdeal.com/articles/next-hudson-yards-developer-could-have-easier-time

Next Hudson Yards developer could have easier time

By Alec Appelbaum
5/14/08

Brookfield Properties, which is building a three-acre site near Hudson Yards that it calls Manhattan West on a deck from Ninth to Dyer avenues and from 31st to 33rd Streets, dropped out before the second round of bidding began. Spokeswoman Melissa Coley said pre-construction work on the deck has begun, with plans to start construction next month and finish by as early as 2013. The project could contain 5.4 million square feet with a mix of uses, she said.




http://www.rew-online.com/news/story.aspx?id=441

Brookfield hasn't yet started Ninth Ave. platform
Firm said development would begin by summer

Daniel Geiger
9/23/2008

A spokesman for Brookfield, Matthew Cherry, wouldn’t characterize the situation as a delay and said that the company wasn’t backing away from building on the site because of the uncertain economy and tumult in the financial sector. He said that work was going on to ready the site but wouldn’t give a timeframe for when the project could begin.



http://www.bisnow.com/archives/nycre/1008/nycre_images/100208b.jpg

[OneWorldTradeCenter]

I suppose that lovely proposal will never get built, like so much other supertall projects around the globe....

[Zapatan]

^What are you talking about? This one will probably get built.

[SkyscrapersOfNewYork]

I suppose that lovely proposal will never get built, like so much other supertall projects around the globe....

yea this one has a great chance

[NYC4Life]

I would believe every single project stalled at the moment will, at some point, be built to some extent or another. All depends on market demands, which at the moment is slowly increasing.

[brian.odonnell20]

is there a rendering of this with 15 Penn and empire state ?

[SkyscrapersOfNewYork]

is there a rendering of this with 15 Penn and empire state ?

there you go
http://secondavenuesagas.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/15_Penn_Towers.jpg
http://secondavenuesagas.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/15_Penn_Towers.jpg

[NYguy]

I suppose that lovely proposal will never get built, like so much other supertall projects around the globe....

Never assume something will not be built because it isn't being built today. There's a reason why there are construction booms, but particularly in today's climate, developments have been stalled worldwide. In New Yorks case, you not only look at what's being built, you also look at what's not being built, and that's new office space. Sure there's the WTC, but that's not the traditional new office space that will be built in Midtown. The city forsaw the need for future expansion on the west side, and thus the Hudson Yards rezoning was approved, which this is a part of.

[nmguar]

Can someone please explain to me the difference between the 3 Hudson Boulevard tower and the One/Two Manhattan West buildings? Is it an either/or scenario, or are they different projects?

I'm asking this because, I hear a lot of people complaining that 15 Penn Plaza will block the Empire State Building from the west (I personally don't mind that it does). But wouldn't 3 Hudson and One Manhattan West -- both over 1,000 feet -- be built within the same three block span (31st to 34th), just on different avenues?

Thanks.

[scalziand]

^^Manhattan West is a separate project from the main yards. As for blocking the views, yes they will be in the same general line. Don't let the NIMBYS know or they'll be opposing these too, as ridiculous as it is. :grrr:

[nmguar]

^^Manhattan West is a separate project from the main yards. As for blocking the views, yes they will be in the same general line. Don't let the NIMBYS know or they'll be opposing these too, as ridiculous as it is. :grrr:

Thank you. Have the final plans for 3 Hudson and One Manhattan West been approved yet? And is there a rendering out there that includes the final places of 3 Hudson, One Manhattan's two towers, and the 15 Penn Plaza building view from the west (with the ESB in the background?)..

Thanks

[2048]

I don't like it that much (although some new tall buildings always contribute to the cityscape). It is too sleek and bland at the same time IMO.

[NYguy]

I hear a lot of people complaining that 15 Penn Plaza will block the Empire State Building from the west (I personally don't mind that it does). But wouldn't 3 Hudson and One Manhattan West -- both over 1,000 feet -- be built within the same three block span (31st to 34th), just on different avenues?

Thanks.

Just ignore those people. For one, it would have to be a very specific vantage point for this building to block the ESB. For that reason, you could argue that any number of towers around the city blocks the view of the ESB. As for the other Hudson Yards towers, some people are only capable of forming an opinion on what is in front of them, and not on what might be. In other words, there's a reason that rendering of the Manhattan West/15 Penn/Hudson Yards model was put before the council.


http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18602/758612-S1300x600.jpg



http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18602/757723-S1300x600.jpg


People complain about the bulk and height of 15 Penn, where the largest of the Manhattan West duo is bulkier and about the same height, if not taller. The diffence between locations is a matter of a few blocks. Yet, Manhattan West, like all of the Hudson Yards developments, is an as of right development, its what the city allows. Surely a building just a bit closer to Penn Station deserves as much.

http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18602/757760.jpg


Compared to some other Hudson Yards behemoths...

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/93285910/large.jpg



The original Hudson Yards zoning (commercial towers in blue), and specific zoning for the two Manhattan West towers...(729A - 729B)
For location comparison, 3 Hudson is 706A and the site of the former World Product Center is 705A. The site of the proposed stadium was later rezoned for even more towers.

http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18602/972901.jpg


http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18602/972902.jpg


http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18602/972903.jpg

[nmguar]

Just ignore those people. For one, it would have to be a very specific vantage point for this building to block the ESB. For that reason, you could argue that any number of towers around the city blocks the view of the ESB. As for the other Hudson Yards towers, some people are only capable of forming an opinion on what is in front of them, and not on what might be. In other words, there's a reason that rendering of the Manhattan West/15 Penn/Hudson Yards model was put before the council.

Only a few of those photos actually showed up on the post. I do not mind that they will "block" ESB. I personally think that's the neat part about Manhattan's skyline: That something you can see 20 miles away can't necessarily be seen just 3 blocks away. I was just curious of all three of these projects were still on course. Because that'd be a pretty powerful addition to the Midtown skyline. Also, the Tower Verra looks beautiful.

[nmguar]

Never mind, I see them. So from west to east it'll be Hudson, then Manhattan West, then 15 Penn, then ESB -- all over 1,000 feet. That'll be beautiful.

[nim3]

Does anybody know if this project got approved???????:shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :sly:

[brian.odonnell20]

Compared to some other Hudson Yards behemoths...

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/93285910/large.jpg



Whats that tower in the middle? Is that an older version of 3 Hudson Boulevard?

[SkyscrapersOfNewYork]

Whats that tower in the middle? Is that an older version of 3 Hudson Boulevard?

no its the Sherwood Equities Tower

[brian.odonnell20]

o what's the story on that ??

[NYguy]

Does anybody know if this project got approved???????:shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :sly:

I posted the specifics of the site just a couple of post above yours. They would only need approvals to make the project larger than it is.



o what's the story on that ??

Sherwood Equities wavered between office or hotel at a time when the State was pushing an expanded Javits Center, but specifily talked of plans for the office tower, which is what it remains now. It's one of the so called "four corners" towers (along with the Girasole, WPC site, and McDonald's).

As seen in Hudson Yards zoning, that particular tower is at site 706B, not far from Manhattan West, which is at 729 A&B.

http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18602/972901.jpg

[meh_cd]

I still wish that MSG would be demolished and a beautiful tower would be built on that spot. There were renders a few years back - I'm sure you know what I'm talking about NYGuy - and the render looked incredible. I'm not familiar with the air rights on the MSG site, so is it even possible at some point in the future? Any design, that is. Not just the twin tower render I'm talking about.

[NYguy]

I still wish that MSG would be demolished and a beautiful tower would be built on that spot. There were renders a few years back - I'm sure you know what I'm talking about NYGuy - and the render looked incredible. I'm not familiar with the air rights on the MSG site, so is it even possible at some point in the future? Any design, that is. Not just the twin tower render I'm talking about.

I know what you mean. There were a few versions of that, one shown here...
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=163351

However, due to the nature of building over Penn Station, the team of Related and Vornado started to back away from building directly over the station and transferring the air rights around the site. Once Cablevision decided not to move to a new Garden, choosing the renovation instead, hope of a complete rebuilding of Penn Station dissipated. As a result, talk of transferring any development rights has stalled. There will be some development rights due to the transformation of the Farley (Post Office) building accross the street. Combined with other development rights, it will result in the Penn East and Penn West towers, on either side of 1 Penn Plaza.

[JayPro]

...will result in the Penn East and Penn West towers, on either side of 1 Penn Plaza.

It (1PP) would go from sore thumb on the skyline to the centerpiece of an interesting study in contrasts

[Dac150]

It (1PP) would go from sore thumb on the skyline to the centerpiece of an interesting study in contrasts

I’m talking way down the road, but I wouldn’t rule out a reclad of both 1 & 2 Penn Plaza once most of this development commences.

[Crawford]

I still wish that MSG would be demolished and a beautiful tower would be built on that spot.

MSG will eventually be demolished and replace with huge towers, but not now.

The site has nearly 6 million square feet of air rights.

[NYguy]

MSG will eventually be demolished and replace with huge towers, but not now.

The site has nearly 6 million square feet of air rights.

The problem is, there's nowhere left for MSG to move, not even the railyards (yeah, I believe Dolan would have the gall to try that). It could be decades before another oppurtunity comes to move the Garden, and even then the question is where? It's the reason the developers are lookin to transfer those development rights to the surrounding area. Meanwhile, any chance at moving the Garden to Farley is slip-slip-slipping away...
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/18/a-ceremonial-start-for-moynihan-station/

[RobertWalpole]

If Dolan is spending $850m to renovate MSG, he won't move it for at least 20 years. The city should rescind MSG's tab break.

[SkyscrapersOfNewYork]

The problem is, there's nowhere left for MSG to move, not even the railyards (yeah, I believe Dolan would have the gall to try that). It could be decades before another oppurtunity comes to move the Garden, and even then the question is where? It's the reason the developers are lookin to transfer those development rights to the surrounding area. Meanwhile, any chance at moving the Garden to Farley is slip-slip-slipping away...
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/18/a-ceremonial-start-for-moynihan-station/

true you could always leave the garden where it is and build office towers that have the garden incorporated into their designs.

[Dac150]

MSG will eventually be demolished and replace with huge towers, but not now.

I would say not in our lifetimes; there’s simply nowhere at this point to put a new stadium on the island. With renovations, the arena will remain very viable for years to come; but it needs to be overhauled.

The air right will most likely be transferred to neighboring locations.

[Dac150]

true you could always leave the garden where it is and build office towers that have the garden incorporated into their designs.

The area will have to be focused around MSG, considering developers will be benefiting from the site’s air rights.

[Crawford]

If Dolan is spending $850m to renovate MSG, he won't move it for at least 20 years. The city should rescind MSG's tab break.

They renovated MSG something like 12 years ago, so it looks more like a 10-year cycle.

So maybe the site will be redeveloped a decade from now.

But what I don´t understand is why they are renovating. The site is MUCH more valuable for office towers than for an arena.

The current arena, even after a renovation, will still have the same fundamental problems. They need a brand new arena, not a renovated one.

And obviously no arena can produce the revenues comparable to 6 milion square feet of Manhattan office space.

Even in this economy, they could sell the site for well over a billion, which would easily fund a new arena somewhere else.

[Crawford]

I would say not in our lifetimes; there’s simply nowhere at this point to put a new stadium on the island. With renovations, the arena will remain very viable for years to come; but it needs to be overhauled.

The air right will most likely be transferred to neighboring locations.

I would be shocked if that dump of an arena is there in 15 years. The Barclays Center will be the best arena on the planet, and will take tons of revenue, even if the Brooklyn location is somewhat less central than MSG.

But you are correct that the office towers can still be constructed AND you can keep the arena. Just transfer the air rights to nearby underdeveloped sites, and you could build massive towers.

[Dac150]

A main factor that will keep that arena standing is location or the lack of it for something new. Upkeep and overhaul can compromise.

[NYguy]

what I don´t understand is why they are renovating. The site is MUCH more valuable for office towers than for an arena.

The current arena, even after a renovation, will still have the same fundamental problems. They need a brand new arena, not a renovated one.

Even in this economy, they could sell the site for well over a billion, which would easily fund a new arena somewhere else.

And those are the key words - somewhere else. They would be fools to leave Manhattan, which is extremely unlikely. It also wouldn't be wise to move away from the country's best public transit access. Moving to Farley would have been the best of both worlds. But the Dolans threw a temper tantrum now that Bloomberg says they shouldn't be getting that tax break (Bloomberg is still mad over the stadium war with Cablevision). Added to the fact that funding for the full overhaul of Penn Station was nowhere in site, and the inability of the governors of New York to get that project moving in a timely fashion, they simply decided to stay put.

But I don't want to take this thread any further off course. The discussion can continue here...
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=163351

or here...
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=123575

[STR]

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/7493/n71j.jpg

[SkyscrapersOfNewYork]

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/7493/n71j.jpg

:worship: :awesome: :psycho: :upload_71700: :hyper: :banana:

[STR]

Enjoy. Those buildings are going to stay in the background for the time being since there's next to zero info out there on them.

[NYguy]

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/7493/n71j.jpg


Enjoy. Those buildings are going to stay in the background for the time being since there's next to zero info out there on them.


Still a good job, as it shows their scale in relation to the surroundings.

[STR]

^Yeah...well...I accidentally deleted them about 2 weeks ago. Just redid them last night, haven't had time to spit out renders. I think I'll do some N/S shots, as I don't think I realized the first time through how fat of a building the south tower is. Like "15 Penn looks dainty" fat. I mean so fat, when you press the elevator button you expect it to respond with "Hey Hey Hey!"

[NYguy]

^ Yeah, it's fat, and those towers appear to be about as close as towers 3 and 4 at the WTC.

[OneWorldTradeCenter]

:previous: The render above looks great; but I think that just 15 Penn Plaza gets built...

[SkyscrapersOfNewYork]

:previous: The render above looks great; but I think that just 15 Penn Plaza gets built...

all the Manhattan West towers need is the market and tenants. it has the air rights and needs no approvals. eventually it they will be built.

[STR]

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/1403/n125.jpg

[Troubadour]

I don't get it. :shrug:

[Zapatan]

:previous: The render above looks great; but I think that just 15 Penn Plaza gets built...

They're both getting built eventually

[Boss-ton]

^^ exactly its almost not even a question when its comes to nyc

[NYguy]

^ This site has been in the mix for potential tenants for a while now, even before the current plan. We're already looking at potential tenants leaping over to the Hudson Yards,
so it wouldn't shock me if Brookfield were able to land a tenant for either of these towers. However, the rents for this project will need to jump up to BofA levels before
Brookfield can build the platform. They were ready to go a few years ago on that, but like everything else planned or proposed, it had to cool off for a while. By no means
does that mean it won't get built. There are a lot of skyscrapers on the planning block, they won't all get built the same day, or even year.



http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/1403/n125.jpg

This is incredible. And the Empire State didn't just disappear like many critics thought it would.

[kickser]

Amazing how 1 Penn plaza looks dwarfed in STR's render, allthough it's a beast of a tower.

[NYguy]

Amazing how 1 Penn plaza looks dwarfed in STR's render, allthough it's a beast of a tower.

It will be even more so becaue there are towers planned on either side of it. The tower on the east side (Penn East) will be nearly 1,000 ft itself.

[SkyscrapersOfNewYork]

It will be even more so becaue there are towers planned on either side of it. The tower on the east side (Penn East) will be nearly 1,000 ft itself.

this was the last i seen of Penn East and West but i expect them to take off with the Hudson Yards.


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3340/3185907211_95c8873814_o.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3340/3185907211_95c8873814_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3453/3217418928_648e8f0578_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3453/3217418928_648e8f0578_o.jpg

[gramsjdg]

Is the 1216 foot ceiling because of the ESB? What's it going to take to get a building in NYC -or the US- for that matter, that has a higher roof height than the Sears Tower?:shrug:

[NYguy]

this was the last i seen of Penn East and West but i expect them to take off with the Hudson Yards.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3453/3217418928_648e8f0578_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3453/3217418928_648e8f0578_o.jpg

That last one is from years ago, back when there were proposals from various developers for the Moynihan/Penn Station redevelopment.
Since then, we have gone through various schemes from the winning team of Related/Vornado.

The last we've seen is a massing for the Penn East (as well as Penn West) towers, seen on either side of 1 Penn Plaza in the photo below.
In the FEIS, is was suggest that the Penn East tower was assumed to have been developed along with the 15 Penn development.
It will be strictly an office building, without large trading floors and a wide base. The height has varied from 950 to about 1100 or 1200 ft.

Penn East is seen here, just north of 2 Penn Plaza, and just east of 1 Penn Plaza:

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/121890401/large.jpg



http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/121890401/original.jpg

[Mr. Lion]

That last one is from years ago, back when there were proposals from various developers for the Moynihan/Penn Station redevelopment.
Since then, we have gone through various schemes from the winning team of Related/Vornado.

The last we've seen is a massing for the Penn East (as well as Penn West) towers, seen on either side of 1 Penn Plaza in the photo below.
In the FEIS, is was suggest that the Penn East tower was assumed to have been developed along with the 15 Penn development.
It will be strictly an office building, without large trading floors and a wide base. The height has varied from 950 to about 1100 or 1200 ft.

Penn East is seen here, just north of 2 Penn Plaza, and just east of 1 Penn Plaza:

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/121890401/large.jpg



http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/121890401/original.jpg

ive never heard of Manhattan east. is it cancelled or something?

[SkyscrapersOfNewYork]

ive never heard of Manhattan east. is it cancelled or something?

no just on hold.

[NYguy]

ive never heard of Manhattan east. is it cancelled or something?

It's Penn East, and its part of the Moynihan/Penn Station redevelopment. The exact height isn't known, but it's ranged somewhere between 900 and 1,200 ft, pretty tall on its own. It's another Vornado development, and was last scaled down (to at least a 900 footer) in the 15 Penn Plaza approval process (the FEIS).


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/121845305/original.jpg


So if nothing else, 15 Penn will have a 900 ft buddy, another similarity to Manhattan West, and 3 and 4 WTC.

[NYguy]

http://www.observer.com/2011/real-estate/slideshow/title

West 33rd to West 31st Streets Along Ninth Avenue

http://www.observer.com/files/slideshow_image/1-00729-0060.Nu22_pO5.jpg

By Laura Kusisto
February 15, 2011

Brookfield’s new, primarily office development will be, as a spokeswoman succinctly put it, “ginormous.” Officially, the address of the new 5.4 million–square–foot development is 400 West 33rd Street, but, in fact, it will consist of two towers encompassing 5 acres from 33rd to 31st streets and from Ninth to Dyer avenues.

While far West 34th Street currently resembles a modern-day seaport, filled with sketchy bars, bad fast food and clueless tourists, the spokeswoman said it will be the “new cool spot.” Given that four of the 10 developments on this list are in midtown west, she just might be right. The developer hasn’t announced who will manage the construction because they want to achieve certain leasing hurdles first.

[SkyscrapersOfNewYork]

i feel a new age of development hitting New York City and i wouldn't be surprised if this begins construction next year.

[NYguy]

i feel a new age of development hitting New York City and i wouldn't be surprised if this begins construction next year.

I don't know about that. I'd be shocked if it happens, but we're already talking about potential tenants for the railyards. However, I don't think they're expecting the rents Brookfield is looking for to jumpstart this one. I think this one will come when the market returns to the high end.

[SkyscrapersOfNewYork]

I don't know about that. I'd be shocked if it happens, but we're already talking about potential tenants for the railyards. However, I don't think they're expecting the rents Brookfield is looking for to jumpstart this one. I think this one will come when the market returns to the high end.

perhaps work on the platform atleast,thats what id see as feasible. ;)

[NYguy]

perhaps work on the platform atleast,thats what id see as feasible. ;)

Brookfield mentioned before that the high rents they are asking for are what would justify building the platform. They were prepared to move ahead a few years ago, but I don't know if that's something they would do in today's market, even with the thawing.

[NYguy]

Some good news...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704430304576170850737840000.html

By DANA RUBINSTEIN
February 28, 2011

Brookfield Properties is optimistic that it will start construction within a year on a long-planned, two-tower office development to be built on a platform over the railyards at Ninth Avenue and 33rd Street.

"We are actively wrapping up our planning and will be in a position to begin deck construction late this year or early next," Ric Clark, Brookfield's chief executive, said in an email.

[RobertWalpole]

Good news! :cheers:

[Rey88]

Good good news!:tup:

[patriotizzy]

Woot! Excellent news. Makes my day that much better :D

[hunser]

Brookfield Properties is optimistic that it will start construction within a year on a long-planned, two-tower office development to be built on a platform over the railyards at Ninth Avenue and 33rd Street.


oh yeah, another supertall within reach! :notacrook:

[SkyscrapersOfNewYork]

:notacrook: my predictions seem to be becoming reality.

[Obey]

Nice, very exciting. Are they updating the renderings or keeping them the same?

[NYguy]

^ Remains to be seen, though David Childs & SOM are probably still on.


:notacrook: my predictions seem to be becoming reality.

Let's hope so, though I still believe we are at least a couple of years before any tower work could begin...

We are actively wrapping up our planning and will be in a position to begin deck construction late this year or early next

Getting the deck under construction is a big first step, and will give them a jump on the Hudson Yards railyard development, which needs a larger deck built.

[CoolCzech]

Seems like the next 15 years should be the most transformational time for the NYC skyline since what, like 1925 to 1940 or so?

[NYguy]

Seems like the next 15 years should be the most transformational time for the NYC skyline since what, like 1925 to 1940 or so?

Considering all of the skyscrapers that could be built, and how they will transform the skyline, this will probably the most transformational time in the city's history. All around, Downtown, the West Side, even northern Midtown, and then beyond that of course we have the waterfronts of Queens and Brooklyn that are undergoing their own transformation with towers.

The towers of the west side are mammoth compared to the towers of the other booms. It will be the valley of the giants in New York.

[NYguy]

This development needs the rents to return to pre-recession days. So we are moving in the right direction...

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20110313/REAL_ESTATE/303139997?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+crainsnewyork%2Freal_estate+%28Everything+Real+Estate+-+CrainsNewYork.com%29
Tight at the top of trophy towers
Space at the top is getting scarce

March 13, 2011
By Marine Cole

Space at the top is getting scarce. The vacancy rate for the uppermost floors of midtown trophy office towers had shriveled to a mere 4.2% by the end of February, says Jones Lang LaSalle, which assessed spaces available on the 25th floor and higher. That contrasts with a vacancy rate of 5.5% for the lower floors of such buildings, and 12.3% for midtown Class A buildings overall.

JLL classifies 52 properties in that market as “trophies.”

The tightness is having a predictable effect.

“With demand rising and the shortage of space, the asking rent for tower floor space has been rising,” said Cynthia Wasserberger, a JLL managing director.

While the average rent remains well below peak levels, the highest floors are flirting with $100 per square foot, versus $78 for trophy towers overall and $65 for all Class A midtown properties.

The asking rent for space in the base of 500 Fifth Ave. was $50 a square foot in December, says Harry Blair, a Colliers International executive managing director, who markets the 59-story building. The asking rent for the 58th and 59th floors was $85 a square foot.

“The views and the light tend to be the main drivers,” Ms. Wasserberger noted, explaining the premium for top floors. Typical occupants are hedge funds, private equity firms and other money-management businesses.

[Zapatan]

sweet!

I love these buildings, plus they're enormous :)

If the facade is really grey I think that will look great

[Obey]

^^^ I prefer the sea green.

[patriotizzy]

The facade color is subjective to the environment. I'm sure it'll vary from time to time :)

[RobertWalpole]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/27/business/27sites.html?_r=1

Square Feet
Projects Shelved in the Downturn Spring Back to Life
By JULIE SATOW
April 26, 2011

The developer Brookfield Office Properties shelved plans to build several office towers on a 5.4-million-square-foot property that runs from Ninth Avenue to Dyer Avenue, between West 31st and West 33rd Streets. But Brookfield did not ignore the project in the downturn.

Ric Clark is president and chief executive of Brookfield Office Properties, which plans to build office towers over the rail yards behind him along Ninth Avenue in Manhattan.

The developer spent the last several years studying the engineering of a deck over the rail yards on the site, and says it has found a way to build it cheaper and quicker. It will start construction later this year, with plans to deliver a two-million-square-foot office tower designed by Skidmore, Owings & Merrill on the northeast corner of the parcel by 2015. There are plans to eventually construct as many as three towers. “We will start building the deck on spec but are confident that by the time we get around to building the tower, we will have found an anchor tenant,” said Ric Clark, the president and chief executive. While he declined to give asking rents for the tower, Brookfield has begun preliminary conversations with tenants and expects to be competitively priced with the Hudson Yards buildings the Related Companies is planning a few blocks west.

As rents rebound and vacancies fall in the New York office market, some developers like Mr. Clark who shelved projects in the recession are resurrecting their plans. Several buildings are in the pipeline, and nearly 9.5 million square feet could become available over the next few years — in addition to several million more square feet at the World Trade Center in Lower Manhattan and the Hudson Yards.

A number of factors are driving the trend. Commercial rents are rising in certain submarkets and have held steady in others. Builders who believe the market has turned are preparing sites now in the hopes their projects will come online when higher rents are firmly established.

The city’s aging office stock is another factor. Nearly 83 percent of the office buildings in Manhattan were built more than three decades ago, according to the real estate company Cassidy Turley, and just 6.6 percent have been built since 1990. Many tenants, particularly law firms and financial services companies, crave new space that can be more efficient and tailored to their needs. Finally, construction costs could fall as union contracts begin expiring over the next few months and contractors push to exclude costly labor rules.

“A year ago people were saying the market was so bad they wouldn’t contemplate ground-up construction,” said John F. Powers, the chairman of the New York tri-state region for CB Richard Ellis. “But now, there is upward pressure on rents in some segments of the market, and certainly there is no more downward pressure, so developers are beginning to run pro formas again,” he said, referring to the method of estimating a project’s cost.

In the first quarter of this year there were 15 office leases in Midtown at rents above $90 a square foot, compared with 23 for all of 2010, according to Cushman & Wakefield. At the same time the vacancy rate in Midtown has dropped to 10.3 percent, compared with 12.6 percent at this time last year.

Tenants considering locking in new space now, before rents rise further, include Time Warner Inc., the financial services behemoth UBS and the law firm Mayer Brown. According to Cassidy Turley there are 446 tenants in the market chasing less than 28 million square feet of space.

Particularly well-poised are those developers who had begun preparing before the recession and can resume construction now at points further along. Pacolet Milliken Enterprises, the sister company of the textile firm Milliken & Company, demolished the building at 1045 Avenue of the Americas, a full block between West 39th and West 40th Streets, in 2009. The company has completed the schematic design for a 350,000-square-foot office building at the now-vacant lot, and has hired the Houston-based real estate firm Hines as a consultant.

“We feel very confident about the market and the location,” said Richard C. Webel, Pacolet Milliken’s president. He said the company had been speaking preliminarily with tenants, though it had not yet hired a broker. As for timing, “based on who we have talked to, the market should be there by 2015 or 2016, if not sooner,” Mr. Webel said.

Timing is critical as the market starts to revive, experts said. “The first buildings to be up and running will be most successful in grabbing an anchor tenant,” said Robert Sammons, the vice president for research services at Cassidy Turley.

Boston Properties is banking on this as it revives construction on a 1-million-square-foot office tower at 250 West 55th Street; building stopped in 2008 after the foundation was poured. Since it is partially built, it will be a relatively short time — mid-2014 — until Boston Properties can deliver the building to tenants. Already, it is in lease negotiations with the law firm Morrison Foerster as an anchor tenant.

[SkyscrapersOfNewYork]

this is AMAZING news!!! now we may be getting 3 new beasts on the skyline. does it get much better than this? great find RobertWalpole. :D

[yankeesfan1000]

This is really great news, thanks RW. It's really unbelievable how little commercial space has been built in this city over the last few decades, we're now getting a long overdue boom of commercial towers. Enjoy the weather my fellow NYers!