[Only The Lonely..]

Winnipeg: We're No. 9 (from 8th)

Wed Mar 14 2007 | Winnipeg Free Press Editorial

THERE were scant references to Winnipeg and Manitoba in the reams of census-related copy moving on the news wires on Tuesday.
Which was not entirely disappointing -- they are "news" wires, after all, and there was no good news or bad news of interest to the rest of Canada about the mediocre performance posted by Manitoba in the last census period, 2001 to 2006.

The big story, here, of course, is symbolic -- we have undoubtedly slipped to ninth place behind Hamilton among Canada's 33 metropolitan areas. As of census day last May, Hamilton had 1,757 fewer residents than Winnipeg, but with a growth rate of 4.6 per cent, twice the rate in Winnipeg's, Hamilton was on track to eclipse Winnipeg by now. There was a time when Winnipeg ranked fourth in Canada, a time when whatever the census found about Manitoba was news to the rest of Canada, but clearly those times are not these times.

That is not to say they never will be again. With an economic development strategy that made Winnipeg and Manitoba attractive to the rest of Canada, and not just to immigrants, that could change. Unfortunately, there is little evidence that the Doer government -- after seven years of failing to find a winning formula and instead relying ever more on transfers from Ottawa to pay our bills -- will find it any time soon.

On Tuesday, in fact, Competitiveness Minister Scott Smith was reduced to finding silver linings in the cloud cover. Manitoba's population growth of 2.2 per cent was fifth among provinces, he crowed , neglecting that fifth is less than the average of 5.4 per cent, is better only than the Maritime provinces and Saskatchewan and that Winnipeg was the 27th slowest growing of 33 metropolitan areas. More telling, however, was the thank-you he sent to Manitobans for completing the census surveys and thus ensuring the Doer government will be able to squeeze every possible penny out of the new federal transfer-payment program that is expected to be unveiled in the federal budget on Monday.

We need more than boosterism from our minister of competitiveness -- we need a strategy to compete with the rest of Canada, one that can restore Winnipeg's pride of place among cities and Manitoba's pride of place among provinces. As this newspaper has argued repeatedly, the province should act on economist John McCallum's advice and determine why it is that Manitoba is losing its market share of people to other parts of Canada. Until we know, we can't turn it around. We can only continue to make no news of interest to the rest of Canada

[Only The Lonely..]

Census: Urban sprawl slows down, statistics find
City's growth not as hot as others

Wed Mar 14 2007

By Mary Agnes Welch

THE rate of urban sprawl seems to be slowing, according to the 2006 Statistics Canada census, meaning fewer people are fleeing Winnipeg to move to surrounding bedroom communities.
Places like East St. Paul and Oakbank are still growing at a much faster rate than Winnipeg, just not quite as fast as they were a decade ago. That, plus Winnipeg's respectable growth rate, is good news.

"I see a lot of positive things happening in Winnipeg," said Mayor Sam Katz. "We have growth, record-setting house sales, booming retail, the housing industry is taking off, unemployment is down."

Now for the bad news: Winnipeg and its bedroom communities grew by 2.7 per cent -- decent for a slow-growth town, but not nearly as fast as most other Canadian cities. At this rate, Hamilton will soon bump Winnipeg from its spot as the eighth-largest urban centre, if it hasn't already.

According to the 2006 data, Steeltown was just 1,700 people short of matching Winnipeg's population in 2006. If Hamilton's 4.6 per cent growth rate continues, it will easily dwarf Winnipeg when the next batch of census questionnaires begin appearing in Canadian mailboxes in 2011.

But statisticians caution against such dire forecasts, saying it's foolish to make predictions when many factors are in flux.
Provincial statistician Wilf Falk said immigration is driving growth all over Canada, but few places more so than in Manitoba. If the province boosts immigration to 20,000 by 2016 -- the latest goal -- that could keep Winnipeg competitive with Hamilton, since the majority of new Manitobans remain in the capital city.

Falk said there's no telling how many rural residents might retire to Winnipeg or come from First Nations communities. And, there's no telling what could happen to Hamilton's economy, which relies heavily on manufacturing.

Statistics Canada's Manitoba expert Milana Karaganis agreed, saying she won't be able to tell exactly what's spurring growth in Winnipeg or Hamilton until the next few batches of census tables are released. There's no up-to-date information yet on how old Winnipeg's population is, how many young families there are or what the birthrate might be.

Meanwhile, booming bedroom communities such as Springfield, MacDonald and West St. Paul aren't seeing quite the growth the last census brought them. That means Winnipeg is doing a little better at hanging onto its tax base, encouraging more people to live within the Perimeter.

East St. Paul, whose cheap taxes and high-end housing developments often annoy members of Winnipeg's city council, grew just 14 per cent between 2001 and 2006. That's a huge number, but not quite as impressive as the nearly 20 per cent growth in the late 1990s.

Headingley is the anomaly. On the surface, it appears Headingley is booming: a 43 per cent increase to 2,726 people, compared to 1,907 residents five years ago.

But that includes about 500 new inmates at Headingley Correctional Institute, explained Reeve Wilf Taillieu. The penitentiary has undergone a major building expansion in the past five years.

Still, the municipality has enjoyed steady growth since the former Filmon government agreed to subsidize a water and sewer system for the area, which was built in 1999. Headingley's population has increased 15 per cent since 2001, not including the penitentiary. "My council is very restrictive on development. We don't want to see the route of some other municipalities that have blown up and can't maintain their services," Taillieu said.

-- With files from Bill Redekop and Aldo Santin

maryagnes.welch@freepress.mb.ca


Slowing Sprawl


Winnipeg's bedroom communities are growing, but not as fast as they used to. Figures show growth from 2001 to 2006, with growth from 1996-2001 in brackets


Rural Municipality of West St. Paul:

6.7% (9.8%)


RM of East St. Paul

13.8% (19.3%)


RM of Springfield

(includes Oakbank)

3.1% (3.6%)

RM of Tache

(includes Lorette)

5.9% (3.7%)


RM of MacDonald

6.3% (8.6%)


Stonewall 9.1% (8.8%)


Canada's Big Cities


2006 populations of the biggest census metropolitan areas and how much they've grown since 2001.


Toronto 5,113,149, 9.2%

Montreal 3,635,571, 5.3%

Vancouver 2,116,581, 6.5% Ottawa-Gatineau 1,130,761, 5.9%

Calgary 1,079,310, 13.4%

Edmonton 1,034,945, 10.4%

Quebec 715,515, 4.2%

Winnipeg 694,668, 2.7%

Hamilton 692,911, 4.6%

London 457,720, 5.1%

Kitchener 451,235, 8.9%

St. Catharines-Niagara 390,317, 3.5% Halifax 372,858, 3.8%

Oshawa 330,594, 11.6%

[Only The Lonely..]

Census: Spence neighbourhood a census success story

Wed Mar 14 2007

By Mary Agnes Welch



THE Spence neighbourhood, once the symbol of Winnipeg's urban decay, is a census success story.
The neighbourhood's population has grown by a 12 per cent since 2001. That makes it the only Winnipeg neighbourhood not on the far-flung fringes to grow more than 10 per cent. On Statistic Canada's census maps released yesterday, it's a little oasis in a city where most neighbourhoods are growing slowly, if at all.

"When we were talking about where to move or where to build, we decided we wanted to be able to have an impact on a neighbourhood," said teacher Owen Bradshaw, who moved with his wife Carolyn Minor to Spence Street last summer.

They love it that so much is within walking distance -- ethnic food on Sargent Avenue, the Millennium Library, downtown theatres and the King's Head pub. And they appreciate the diversity.

"We've got neighbours from Africa, Vietnam, Portugal, some who have been here for a long time and some who are new arrivals," Bradshaw said.

New immigrants, as well as students at the University of Manitoba, could account for the influx of people, nearly 500 over the last five years, said Statistics Canada's Milana Karaganis. Immigration is driving Manitoba's population growth, and many new Canadians set up house first in the city's core.
Maggie Friesen, president of the Spence Neighbourhood Association and long-time resident of the neighbourhood, said she was a little surprised to hear the good news buried in the 2006 census.

"We have so many buildings still empty, especially some of the apartment blocks. That's the last frontier for us," she said.

But she said the area, thanks to an uncommonly active residents' association and a series of government housing programs, has made a significant improvement over the last several years. There are few boarded-up homes and vacant lots left in the area, and the population has become much more stable.

maryagnes.welch@freepre.mb.ca

[Only The Lonely..]

Census: Immigration saves the day:
Chief cause of population growth Province's nominee program lauded

Wed Mar 14 2007 | By Mia Rabson | Winnipeg Free Press

KIRO Stojcevski uprooted his wife and twin sons from their home in Macedonia in 2003 to carve out a better life in Canada.
The family chose to settle in Winnipeg, despite having relatives in Toronto, for one simple reason: "Manitoba had the best immigration program," Stojcevski said.

That immigration strategy, known as the Manitoba Provincial Immigration Nominee Program, is credited as the main reason Manitoba's population grew by 2.6 per cent in the first half of this decade, according to Statistics Canada's 2006 census.

The agency released the first instalment of figures from that census Tuesday, showing that since 2001, Manitoba's population is up 28,000 people to 1,148,401. The growth is due almost exclusively to the increase in international immigration.

More than 41,000 immigrants settled in Manitoba between 2001 and 2006, and almost 80 per cent of them have stayed here. Those immigrants have offset the net loss of more than 30,000 Manitobans who moved to other provinces in that time frame.

Were it not for immigration, Manitoba would likely be in Saskatchewan's position, one of only two provinces whose population declined.
While Saskatchewan is losing only slightly more people to other provinces than Manitoba, its immigration figures pale in comparison. From 2001 to 2006, less than 12,000 new immigrants settled in Saskatchewan.

B.C., Ontario and Quebec all outpaced Manitoba's growth significantly. And booming Alberta grew four times as quickly as we did.

In fact, Alberta grew by more people in the last five years than Manitoba grew in the last five decades.

Manitoba's growth is also less than half of Canada's growth as a whole, which means Manitoba's share of the country's population is slipping.

Our chunk of Canada's population dropped from 4.4 per cent in 1976, to 3.8 per cent in 1996, and was down to 3.6 per cent in 2006.

Federal transfer payments for things such as health care and education are based on population, so a declining portion could impact how much money flows our way down the road.

Immigration Minister Nancy Allan was happy to brag about the success of the nominee program yesterday, which hit its goal of bringing in 10,000 new immigrants a year in 2006.

"Isn't it awesome," Allan crowed. "We're really the star program in Canada." She said the program was designed to go after the individual needs of various groups, rather than taking a one-size-fits-all approach.

Tory immigration critic Ron Schuler said the NDP should be congratulated for taking the nominee program, created by the Filmon government, and making it work really well.

But he said more needs to be done beyond just immigration.

"(The nominee program) was never meant to be the sole engine for growth."

Manitoba has to make young people want to stay here and want to move here as well, Schuler said.

Stojcevski says his hope of a better life has come true. He found a job immediately at the agriculture equipment manufacturing company Canadian Tool and Die, and has worked his way up to being the human resources manager.

His wife found a job as an optician. They bought a house in River Park South, and their twin 14-year-old boys are in a good school.

Life in Macedonia was good, says Stojcevski, but life in Manitoba is much, much better.

"Manitoba is a great place to live and is really friendly," he said. "We couldn't have succeeded here without Manitobans helping us." mia.rabson@freepress.mb.ca


What is the Manitoba Provincial Nominee Immigration Program for Business?


The immigration program allows Manitoba to seek out and grant approval to immigrants to help fill the province's labour needs. The program mainly looks for skilled workers who have the training, experience and language skills to find a job in Manitoba and contribute to the provincial economy.

It also allows the provincial government to take some control over immigration numbers, despite immigration being within the jurisdiction of the federal government.

In 2006, two of three immigrants arriving in Manitoba came through the nominee program. It has become the envy of other provinces, and officials from Alberta, Saskatchewan, Nova Scotia and Newfoundland have visited Manitoba in the hopes of replicating the program.

Saskatchewan even poached one of Manitoba's program officials last year.



Manitoba

fast facts


* Manitoba is the 5th biggest province in Canada by population.

* Winnipeg is the 8th biggest city in Canada by population.

* Manitoba has nine cities. Five of them grew (Winnipeg, Steinbach, Thompson, Brandon, Winkler), while the rest got smaller (Dauphin, Flin Flon, Portage la Prairie, Selkirk).

* Two in every three Manitobans live in one of those nine cities. Manitoba's population: 1,148,401

Manitoba's population growth since 2001: 2.6 per cent

Manitoba's population growth 1996-2001: 0.5 per cent


By the

numbers


41,000

Number of new immigrants to Manitoba since 2001

79,018

Number of Canadians who moved into Manitoba since 2001*


109,742

Number of Manitobans who moved away since 2001*


*includes period from Jan. 1, 2001 to Sept. 30, 2006

[Greco Roman]

Ok. So we keep hearing stories like these time and time again, and yet the provincial and civic governments are as complacent as ever in their attitute that "Manitoba is BOOMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!". I'm sick to death of Doer that Manitoba is experiencing growth like we haven't seen in years. Well, that large growth is down-right embarrasing in comparison with other areas of Canada, and I don't just mean Albeta. I don't get how a government can be so extatic of this kind of below-average performance. I really hate Doer and his "feel good" tactics. :hell:

[Only The Lonely..]

The truly sad part is Doer will rule us like a King for years to come, because there simply isn't any opposition.

The NDP will be the death of this place.

[rgalston]

Census: Urban sprawl slows down, statistics find
City's growth not as hot as others


Census: Spence neighbourhood a census success story

The NDP should make a TV commercial about this...


Anyway, it looks like a number of other central neighborhoods experienced a population increase: West Broadway; east Wolseley, Osborne Village east of Osborne; east Exchange/South Point Douglas; Central Park; much of Centennial and the North End

Net population losers included: west Exchange District; North Point Douglas; Luxton; Elmwood; Broadway-Assinaboine; the Village west of Osborne; west Wolseley; St. Matthews; Crescentwood

Map can be downloaded here:
http://geodepot.statcan.ca/Diss2006/Maps/download_ThematicMaps_e.jsp?theme=popdist&serie=CMA&geo=Winnipeg&callingName=ThematicMaps_e.jsp&fileName=&Submit=Download

[Only The Lonely..]

The NDP should make a TV commercial about this...


Anyway, it looks like a number of other central neighborhoods experienced a population increase: West Broadway; east Wolseley, Osborne Village east of Osborne; east Exchange/South Point Douglas; Central Park; much of Centennial and the North End

Net population losers included: west Exchange District; North Point Douglas; Luxton; Elmwood; Broadway-Assinaboine; the Village west of Osborne; west Wolseley; St. Matthews; Crescentwood

Map can be downloaded here:
http://geodepot.statcan.ca/Diss2006/Maps/download_ThematicMaps_e.jsp?theme=popdist&serie=CMA&geo=Winnipeg&callingName=ThematicMaps_e.jsp&fileName=&Submit=Download


Your right..

I wish the Free Press spent more time researching some of these Inner City successes. I see more and more houses being fixed up all the time along Spence.

The place still has a long way to go, but its getting there.

[ILYR]

Manitoba's population growth since 2001: 2.6 per cent

Manitoba's population growth 1996-2001: 0.5 per cent


Well it interesting to see that from 2001 - 2006, the same period that Alberta has seen historically its greatest period of growth, that Manitoba and Winnipeg grew, as opposed to 1996-2001 when Alberta's growth was moderate compared to now. So one could conclude that Manitoba's ecomomy is improving, but is hampered by the outflow to Alberta (mainly). Does the data suggest that we are on an upward swing? I guess we'll have to wait another 5 years.

[IntotheWest]

I'm just going to say that I think Winnipegers focus too much on that "symbolic" slip from 8th to 9th - and previously at one point #4. Really, we're talking a couple 100k difference between that and 4,5,6 place.

I know us forumers eye these stats like its candy, but I think the fact Winnipegers dwell on it (at least while the census comes out) is too bad. It is growing, and its still a great place to work/live/play. I think more focus should be put on the good stuff, and not slipping from "8th to 9th".

It is unfortunate about Doer...though he is NDP, I had hoped years ago he was more a "centered" NDP and not too far left. The older population in the Peg keeps voting them in though.

[drew]

It's kind of ironic that most people blame the NDP for Manitoba's population growth woes - when it is the immigrant nomination program they brought in - that is the main reason Manitoba isn't still growing at 0.5%.

[Greco Roman]

I'm just going to say that I think Winnipegers focus too much on that "symbolic" slip from 8th to 9th - and previously at one point #4. Really, we're talking a couple 100k difference between that and 4,5,6 place.

I know us forumers eye these stats like its candy, but I think the fact Winnipegers dwell on it (at least while the census comes out) is too bad. It is growing, and its still a great place to work/live/play. I think more focus should be put on the good stuff, and not slipping from "8th to 9th".



Well, I'm sure if Calgary were in this position, there would be moaning and groaning about how devastated the city is with losing stature. I know for a fact that Calgary prides itself for the tremendous population growth, and it constantly tooting their horn about how much pride they have in their city that is experiencing the wonderful boom times.

I've learned that it is always easier to tell those who arn't as well off as yourself that things aren't that bad and to cheer up. ;)

[supai]

Well it seems to me that Winnipeg is posting a much better growth rate than the previous census. It is all a matter of perspective on how you view it. I see Winnipeg as a stable growing city with an improving economy. I am sure the next five years bodes well for the Winnipeg.

There is not many Cities in Canada over 500,000. Winnipeg is an important City in an excellent location with an abundance of opportunity.

[Only The Lonely..]

It's kind of ironic that most people blame the NDP for Manitoba's population growth woes - when it is the immigrant nomination program they brought in - that is the main reason Manitoba isn't still growing at 0.5%.

I think what people (like myself) are most upset about is the fact that the NDP keeps putting their head in the sand when it comes to the large number of young university educated Manitobans who are leaving the province.


Where Winnipeg is making population gains is in demographics that offer little to the city's long term economic viability. The city has an increasing aboriginal population that is largely poor, and unskilled as far as the labour force is concerned. In addition, we also seem to be especially adapt at pulling in unskilled immigrant labour from third world countries.

These people have limited opportunties for advancement at best, and hence will never have a lot of buying power as consumers.

So my problem occurs when the NDP tells me that 20,000 unskilled immigrants arriving is a good trade off for the 15,000 young educated Manitobans who left.

[Daver]

Well, I'm sure if Calgary were in this position, there would be moaning and groaning about how devastated the city is with losing stature. I know for a fact that Calgary prides itself for the tremendous population growth, and it constantly tooting their horn about how much pride they have in their city that is experiencing the wonderful boom times.

I've learned that it is always easier to tell those who arn't as well off as yourself that things aren't that bad and to cheer up. ;)

Winnipeg should pride itself in the fact that it has grown and done better than it's previous year of statistics. Calgary, is a cinderella city in terms of growth. yes there is pride, as any city would have in it's position and by rights it should after experiancing bust times, aswell. Calgary's seen it all, good and bad.

If you want a peace of the pie, then come and get it!!

[The Jabroni]

It's too bad for Winnipeg slowly drifting away off the top 10, with this NDP government doing jack. Well in any case, I guess we should embrace on what we have. I mean, with the Spence St. thing, that's good.

No matter what happens, good or bad, Winnipeg will grow. I don't care if it's at 0.1% or 21%. As long as it's growing, it's good.

[drew]

In addition, we also seem to be especially adapt at pulling in unskilled immigrant labour from third world countries.

These people have limited opportunties for advancement at best, and hence will never have a lot of buying power as consumers.


Kind of like all those Eastern European immigrants that flooded this city earlier in the 20th century 'eh? I guess they didn't amount to much either...?

I would argue it is the children of immigrant families that are usually those who strive harder in school - under pressure from parents who moved here to give their kids better opportunities.

Winnipeg is essentially a last pick location for born and bred Canadians. Realistically, no change in provincial governments from NDP to PC to Liberal for the next twenty years is going to change this fact. If we have to go outside our borders to attract new citizens - great. The more people we get choosing to move here for a better life from overseas, and the less we rely on "fair-weather" interprovincial migrants - the better this city is in the long run I'd say.

[trueviking]

In addition, we also seem to be especially adapt at pulling in unskilled immigrant labour from third world countries.

These people have limited opportunties for advancement at best, and hence will never have a lot of buying power as consumers.

So my problem occurs when the NDP tells me that 20,000 unskilled immigrants arriving is a good trade off for the 15,000 young educated Manitobans who left.

i am not sure where you get this from.....the overwhelming majority of immigrants are from the phillipines and germany....none of these people are unskilled labourers....most of them live in suburban winnipeg in middle class neighbourhoods and contribute as much as anyone else...we have hired two phillipino architects in the last couple of years and they are great....we have also hired an argentinian architect who used the nominee programme to come here.

your misconception that our immigrants are refugees is way off the mark....there are strict requirements to emmigrate to manitoba....sure we take some refugees...but we should.

[trueviking]

as a matter of fact...one of the phillipino architects we hired is about 30 years old...he was sponsored here by relatives 3 years ago....he worked like a dog for 2 years, in our office all day and 4 hours a night at 7/11 so he could raise the money that the province requires sponsors to have before he could bring his wife to winnipeg too....they just had their first kid and bought a nice little house in river heights.

an argentinian architect that we hired was sponsored by his synnagogue, he worked for us for a year and then went on to become the south american regional director for willmar windows....

[IntotheWest]

^When I went back in 03/04 for a project, one of my colleagues flying in was a phillipino living in OC, SoCal...once I showed him the city over the first few weeks were there, he was absolutely shocked (and pleased to see) the size of Winnipeg's filipino community. Of course, these folks that had never been to Canada before left about a year later very impressed with Winnipeg (okay, they didn't like January :-) It's great to see the immigration into Winnipeg.

Albertaboy - not sure what your slant is. Not everyone in Calgary looks down on the Peg. Not only did I spend 26 years there (plus an extra year and a bit after for a project), most of my family and best friends still live there. Winnipeg is holding it's own, and will continue to grow - maybe at a slower rate, but still grow and evolve. I (like several other forumers from Winnipeg) like to participate, and follow what is happening in Winnipeg - and for once, I'd like to do it without a trace of "Calgary" popping up in the posts...

[bomberguy]

There's more and more Filipinos in Steinbach now. Is that the reason the city increased in population? If so.... that's awesome.

[Only The Lonely..]

i am not sure where you get this from.....the overwhelming majority of immigrants are from the phillipines and germany....none of these people are unskilled labourers....most of them live in suburban winnipeg in middle class neighbourhoods and contribute as much as anyone else...we have hired two phillipino architects in the last couple of years and they are great....we have also hired an argentinian architect who used the nominee programme to come here.

your misconception that our immigrants are refugees is way off the mark....there are strict requirements to emmigrate to manitoba....sure we take some refugees...but we should.

What about professional accreditation carrying over? It is unlikely that a Filipino with his architecture degree can readily ply his / her trade in Manitoba without jumping through significant loop holes.

The points about immigrants being hard workers, and good citizens are all valid and true.

However, I refuse to be cheerful about the NDP hiding its inability to create opportunity behind the banner of ‘Hey, at least people in Nigeria still want to live here…'

Having met the Premier and quite a few of other party ministers in person, I can say that it terrifies me that these people are in charge of our province.

[Only The Lonely..]

Also, it must be remembered that the Filipino community came here in the 1960's as cheap immigrant labour to work in the city's textile trade.

It took at least a generation before any of these people or their children realized any kind of economic success.

So yes, the immigrant population like any other is capable of achieving great things, but it takes a while for these people to acquire affluence.

The benefit of keeping our young people is that they are already educated and can easily acquire affluence, whereas it can take an immigrant community 10 -15 years to rise up in rank.

I'm not sure Winnipeg can afford to wait.

[IntotheWest]

Also, it must be remembered that the Filipino community came here in the 1960's as cheap immigrant labour to work in the city's textile trade.

It took at least a generation before any of these people or their children realized any kind of economic success.

So yes, the immigrant population like any other is capable of achieving great things, but it takes a while for these people to acquire affluence.

The benefit of keeping our young people is that they are already educated and can easily acquire affluence, whereas it can take an immigrant community 10 -15 years to rise up in rank.

I'm not sure Winnipeg can afford to wait.


What is the average age of Winnipeg now? And how does that compare nationally? I agree that more needs to be done to retain the young professionals - and the NDP are likely not focused on that.

Also, this may be a tougher one - how many of the grads from UofM, UofW, and RRCC start their careers in the Peg (or even MB for that matter)?

[hexrae]

Also, this may be a tougher one - how many of the grads from UofM, UofW, and RRCC start their careers in the Peg (or even MB for that matter)?

Here's a report, though a bit dated as it's based on the class of 2000: http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/050518/d050518e.htm
You can download the PDF here (http://www.statcan.ca/cgi-bin/downpub/listpub.cgi?catno=81-595-MIE2005029)

[Greco Roman]

^When I went back in 03/04 for a project, one of my colleagues flying in was a phillipino living in OC, SoCal...once I showed him the city over the first few weeks were there, he was absolutely shocked (and pleased to see) the size of Winnipeg's filipino community. Of course, these folks that had never been to Canada before left about a year later very impressed with Winnipeg (okay, they didn't like January :-) It's great to see the immigration into Winnipeg.

Albertaboy - not sure what your slant is. Not everyone in Calgary looks down on the Peg. Not only did I spend 26 years there (plus an extra year and a bit after for a project), most of my family and best friends still live there. Winnipeg is holding it's own, and will continue to grow - maybe at a slower rate, but still grow and evolve. I (like several other forumers from Winnipeg) like to participate, and follow what is happening in Winnipeg - and for once, I'd like to do it without a trace of "Calgary" popping up in the posts...

It's not so much of a slant. What I am saying is that when you are in the better position, it is easier to look on the bright side. Trust me, I am having a rough semester this time, and those who are doing better than me are chanting "lighten up; it'll get better, blah blah blah". That kind of bugs me.

Maybe my opinion is a little jaded, but I'll feel better when things get better. That is the realist in me I guess.

[IntotheWest]

It's not so much of a slant. What I am saying is that when you are in the better position, it is easier to look on the bright side. Trust me, I am having a rough semester this time, and those who are doing better than me are chanting "lighten up; it'll get better, blah blah blah". That kind of bugs me.

Maybe my opinion is a little jaded, but I'll feel better when things get better. That is the realist in me I guess.

That's a bit presumptuous of you to think I'm in a "better position" - or by that, you mean because of being physically located in AB...which, then would be a dig at MB.

I ended up in Alberta by fluke years ago now - well before all this boom-stuff really took off. Winnipeg is a great city, and like you, and many others on here living elsewhere, it's still "home".

I understand you may be a little homesick or something (I'm assuming you're relatively new in AB), but you need understand my desire to participate in MB and Prairie forums, and not just Calgary/AB stuff - this is the greatness of the internet (and Forums).

Go Jets! ;-)

[ssiguy]

I love Winnipeg but there are two things it can't do anything about......the weather and mosquitos.
There is one thing that Winnipeg can and must get control over..........it crime rate. It is well known across the country that Winnipeg has a crime rate FAR higher than the national average.

[Pegger5]

You Winnipeggers should not forget that the only reason Alberta is doing so well is the Oil industry. Without this great commodity Alberta would be similiar to Saskatchewan. Take away the Oil Sands and we would all be be going back to our home provinces..
Calgary has done nothing special except collect money from a growning tax base. Stop thinking it is so rosy here. You have to spend $800,000K plus on a house to have trees like Winnipeg and with half the size yard.
Alberta spends half on the ARTS and CULTURE than what Manitoba does... I really miss live bands that are up and coming... Calgary is a cultural waistland compared to Winnipeg..
My wife is a lawyer and I do really well also but only because our jobs rely on direct and indirect business from the OIL and Gas industry... We never forget that! If you have an okay job, a nice house and go to the lake on the weekends. DON"T ever move here you will regret it. I know 3 ex-Winnipeg couples moving back this spring because life now has become more rosy in Winnipeg! They are cashing out on their house to go live mortgage free...

Be proud Winnipeg! You are # 5 in Head Offices in Canada (18) which also includes amount of HO employees. Edmonton has maybe 3...

One last thing, You are closer to Chicago, Minny, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Kansas City than Calgary or Edmonton is to Seattle. You have to fly everywhere from Alberta because it is too far to drive to a major city. No wonder the airports here do so well..

[newflyer]

You Winnipeggers should not forget that the only reason Alberta is doing so well is the Oil industry. Without this great commodity Alberta would be similiar to Saskatchewan. Take away the Oil Sands and we would all be be going back to our home provinces..
Calgary has done nothing special except collect money from a growning tax base. Stop thinking it is so rosy here. You have to spend $800,000K plus on a house to have trees like Winnipeg and with half the size yard.
Alberta spends half on the ARTS and CULTURE than what Manitoba does... I really miss live bands that are up and coming... Calgary is a cultural waistland compared to Winnipeg..
My wife is a lawyer and I do really well also but only because our jobs rely on direct and indirect business from the OIL and Gas industry... We never forget that! If you have an okay job, a nice house and go to the lake on the weekends. DON"T ever move here you will regret it. I know 3 ex-Winnipeg couples moving back this spring because life now has become more rosy in Winnipeg! They are cashing out on their house to go live mortgage free...

Be proud Winnipeg! You are # 5 in Head Offices in Canada (18) which also includes amount of HO employees. Edmonton has maybe 3...

One last thing, You are closer to Chicago, Minny, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Kansas City than Calgary or Edmonton is to Seattle. You have to fly everywhere from Alberta because it is too far to drive to a major city. No wonder the airports here do so well..

You make very good points!! .... Alberta is much more of a cashgrab economy. I have also heard many planing to leave in 2007 or 08 ... the oil based economy. As time goes on cracks in the fasaud are showing. Infrastrcuture and been overwelmed .. and inflation is starting to take its toll.

Winnipeg's economy is starting to see some growth and with improving economic conditions this will continue. This is not to mention the amount of interesting projects on the horizon.... such as the nicest airport in the nation.. by far.

The posibility of a new staduim and a musuem of a worldly stature... coule be very nice additions to this city.

... and here is a kicker ... but I think weather is a big plus. At least 9 months of the year, is as good as anywhere in Canada... and probibly the nicest summer weather in the nation (warm and sunny.. no smog). Add to that miles and miles of the finiest white sand beaches around and you have one great city... especially if you have time to enjoy life. That means not working your back to the bone for a $400K mortage on a small house.

Sorry but Winnipeg has Calgary beat hands down.. expect for the oil... and the odd chinook.

[supai]

Hopefully Winnipeg can hang on to its head offices and they don't all end up in Calgary.

Edmonton has a lot more than 3 head offices. A lot of them are private corporations such as PCL. In any event here is a few of the larger ones:

EPCOR,
Canadian Western Bank
Alberta Treasury Branch
PCL
Stantec
Biomira
Matrikon
Peace Hills Trust


One thing I really like about Alberta is the mountains absolutley spectacular scenery especially from the top of a summit!!

[newflyer]

Hopefully Winnipeg can hang on to its head offices and they don't all end up in Calgary.


Edmonton has a lot more than 3 head offices. A lot of them are private corporations such as PCL. In any event here is a few of the larger ones:

EPCOR,
Canadian Western Bank
Alberta Treasury Branch
PCL
Stantec
Biomira
Matrikon
Peace Hills Trust


One thing I really like about Alberta is the mountains absolutley spectacular scenery especially from the top of a summit!!

I think he meant large publicly traded corporations.

Edmonton is more of an industrail and petro services support city .. not as much a corporate head office location.
Winnipeg has far more than Edmonton... and some major ones are:

Can West Global
Richardson and Sons
Great West Life
New Flyer Industries
Domo Gas
MTS / AllStream
Wellington West Capital
Wawanesa Insurance
North West Company
Artic Equipment Co-op
Investors Group (largest mutual fund company in Canada)
Buhler Industries
Mondetta Sports Wear
Motor Coach indutries
Agricore United
Standard Aero
Rogers western head office
Rice Financial
Canad Inns
Cargil
Monsanto Canada
Bison Transport
Nygard International
Kitchen Craft
Palliser Furniture
Riemer Express
Ben Moss Jewelers
Hudson Bay Mining Company
Ridley Inc.
Paterson Grain
Cangene Inc.
Arctic Glacier
FP Publications Inc.
Poineer Grain
Winnipeg Commodity Exchange
Man-Shield
Ceridian Canada
Creswin Inc.
MB Hydro
Ipos Reid
K-Tel
Golden West Media

... ect ect .. I am know I missed a bunch.

.. but as you can tell Winnipeg is miles ahead of Edmonton in head offices. These are not fly-by-night operations either, they have been established in Winnipeg for decades for the most part... I really doubt Calgary would have much to offer .. except jacked up office rates and no staff. As you can tell Winnipeg has a strong core of agriculture and transport companies with a good amount of media and bioscience. Calgary has very little in any of these fields. Infact I wouldn't be suprised in Agruim relocated to Winnipeg in the next few years. It is the centre of agriculture in Canada.

[SmileyBoy]

I have no idea why they undercounted again. I thought I heard somewhere that Winnipeg's metro was actually 715,000 or so. Even the city itself said that Winnipeg's city pop. is over 650,000 (closer to 660) now. Why does the Canadian census always undercount?? It seems to be the reverse here in the US - Our Census tends to overcount and our annual estimates undercount DRASTICALLY.

[Boreal]

As per what I heard from a UofM historian, the Winnipeg Free Press, and this board (from posters who would certainly be described as "reputable") 715,000 was the number tossed about and I would imagine that to be accurate. Anyways...

I know we are all very critical of Winnipeg, and for good reason. We want the best. We want Winnipeg to be the best, and quite frankly of all the mid-tier cities in Canada, no other even comes remotely close to touching Winnipeg's potential ...with all due respect to those cities.

With some good decisions at the civic office, which I, like Newflyer, think is in process of happening (yes, Katz lover, right here), we're slowly on our way.

It's easy to get caught up in what's wrong, or what does Calgary have that we don't, but in the end of the day, we have a heckuva a lot, that I wouldn't trade to move anywhere else in Canada. 2 of my 3 best friends and my girlfriend feel the same way. So 4 out of 5, or 80% of a small sample (possibly unreliable) are willing to do all things within reason to stay in the Manitoba capitol.

Why?
Well...

As already touched on, Winnipeg is NOT a business backwater. It MUST start to phase out the business tax, which it is doing, but long story short, there is opportunity here. Being so close to cottage country is amazing in the summer. The city is in and of itself, considering its size, a cultural mecca. I love it's multiculturalism, relative to other cities. I love the fact that Winnipeg has a (mildly) big city feel, but a small town sense of community. It seems like everybody indirectly knows everybody in this city. As a young person, the nightlife in Winnipeg is very, very good relative to many places. In all of chauvenisms proudest moments ...it has some of the prettiest girls in Canada, which of course is subjective, but who cares? Assiniboine Park, if zoo upgrades happen could be the crown jewel (yes, I'd put it ON PAR with The Forks). And speaking of The Forks, if all things go as planned, it will be phenomenal. Corydon and Osborne, and an up and coming Academy have lots of good stuff already, and loads of potential to become so much more. The Exchange is Winnipeg. In my humble opinion, that is out ticket to first-tier status so to speak.

I could go on and on, but long story short, as much as I like to criticize, it's nice to sit back and take a look at what plagues places like Toronto and Calgary (you know, the things they like to not talk about...) and rediscover your love for Winnipeg ...at least, that's what I do from time to time.

In honour of American neo-cons ...God Bless Winnipeg. ;)

[Tower Crane]

As per what I heard from a UofM historian, the Winnipeg Free Press, and this board (from posters who would certainly be described as "reputable") 715,000 was the number tossed about and I would imagine that to be accurate. Anyways...

I know we are all very critical of Winnipeg, and for good reason. We want the best. We want Winnipeg to be the best, and quite frankly of all the mid-tier cities in Canada, no other even comes remotely close to touching Winnipeg's potential ...with all due respect to those cities.

With some good decisions at the civic office, which I, like Newflyer, think is in process of happening (yes, Katz lover, right here), we're slowly on our way.

It's easy to get caught up in what's wrong, or what does Calgary have that we don't, but in the end of the day, we have a heckuva a lot, that I wouldn't trade to move anywhere else in Canada. 2 of my 3 best friends and my girlfriend feel the same way. So 4 out of 5, or 80% of a small sample (possibly unreliable) are willing to do all things within reason to stay in the Manitoba capitol.

Why?
Well...

As already touched on, Winnipeg is NOT a business backwater. It MUST start to phase out the business tax, which it is doing, but long story short, there is opportunity here. Being so close to cottage country is amazing in the summer. The city is in and of itself, considering its size, a cultural mecca. I love it's multiculturalism, relative to other cities. I love the fact that Winnipeg has a (mildly) big city feel, but a small town sense of community. It seems like everybody indirectly knows everybody in this city. As a young person, the nightlife in Winnipeg is very, very good relative to many places. In all of chauvenisms proudest moments ...it has some of the prettiest girls in Canada, which of course is subjective, but who cares? Assiniboine Park, if zoo upgrades happen could be the crown jewel (yes, I'd put it ON PAR with The Forks). And speaking of The Forks, if all things go as planned, it will be phenomenal. Corydon and Osborne, and an up and coming Academy have lots of good stuff already, and loads of potential to become so much more. The Exchange is Winnipeg. In my humble opinion, that is out ticket to first-tier status so to speak.

I could go on and on, but long story short, as much as I like to criticize, it's nice to sit back and take a look at what plagues places like Toronto and Calgary (you know, the things they like to not talk about...) and rediscover your love for Winnipeg ...at least, that's what I do from time to time.

In honour of American neo-cons ...God Bless Winnipeg. ;)

Jeff, don't be so insecure.
Why are you trying to change the population number to what you feel is accurate, we already have an official census. The population is what it is, there is no need to inflate it to feel better. If all is well this should not be an issue.
Your personal survey and comments could apply to and for most any similiar sized city as everyone can and should find the positives of the city they call home.
What good decisions are you referencing, from what I can see the civic offices have been talking about the same 'Winnipeg needs' items for 30 years now.

Please share the good decisions that you mention are on there way?

[Only The Lonely..]

:previous:

I've heard the 715,000 Metro pop too.

I guess it all depends on whether you count Selkirk, Lockport, and St.Andrews as being part of the metropolitan area.

I consider these regions part of the metro, as a good part of the population works in Winnipeg.

However, I don't think Stats Can considers any of those communities to be a part of Winnipeg's CMA.

Hope this helps.

[Boreal]

Only The Lonely ...that was general perception as well...

[Tower Crane]

Only The Lonely ...that was general perception as well...

Were still waiting to here about..................."With some good decisions at the civic office, which I, like Newflyer, think is in process of happening (yes, Katz lover, right here), we're slowly on our way."

What decisions are you talking about?

[Boreal]

Just relax bud. ...but I am flattered you're concerned over my apparently more-than-i-though-they-were influential thoughts.

I am in the camp that believes the city can't grow unless it's most fundamental infrastructure is taken care of. Thus, for example, no rapid transit - of any kind - before our roads are brought back to respectability. Years of neglect, which stemmed from the misappropriation of funds in the form of past mayor elects increasing funding for certain programs without making cuts (which in my opinion should have been in the area of civic staff), but instead by lifting money out of the maintenance budget. In doing so, the roads are, well, in the condition you and me see today. In fact, I believe on CJOB a short while ago, a public employee blamed the drivers for hitting the potholes. I can assure anyone, no driver openly wants to ram their car into the craters that polka-dot our streets.

Admittedly yes, we do live in a winter climate, and that will take its toll on roads, and admittedly yes, Sam Katz may appear as a bit of a simpleton. However, he is, as per the last budget on track to at least, bringing back respectability to some of our streets. Everyone is correct in stating that yes, this will NOT attract or help to retain our talented youth, however, in my opinion, before you can compete for the talented youth, you have to make sure your most basic infrastructure is sound - roads, sewage, snow removal, etc, - and maintainable. I believe this is what Katz is working towards, and I think that is a huge plus.

I want all the fancy things everybody else here does, but I just don't believe personally, that we have a proper foundation to build on quite yet. I am of the mindset that everything stems from fundamental principles, which I believe Katz has, and is in the process of working into City Hall, such as reducing the red tape, and the new hotline. Is he a panacea? No, not by any means, but I respect what he is doing, and at that, the new more business-friendly council infront of him.

If you are looking to compile a bulleted list, then you can add tax cuts, and although he may never be labelled a strong urbanist, he is not a suburban mayor, in my opinion.

[drew]

I am in the camp that believes the city can't grow unless it's most fundamental infrastructure is taken care of. Thus, for example, no rapid transit - of any kind - before our roads are brought back to respectability.
.

The problem with spending so much on simple repair of existing roads is that it is a never ending process. It's general wear and tear.

You could easily pour 5-billion dollars into the streets of Winnipeg, replace everyone of them with new surface, and everything would be great. Then the fall and spring, and in the winter - a salt-induced freeze thaw cycle happens.

Guess what? In 1, maybe 2 years you are basically back to where you started.

You should have a budget for street wear and tear - but certainly do not break the bank on it. It's not money well spent.

The other catch 22 on road repair versus rapid transit - is that every one extra person who rides transit, is one less car subjecting the roads to wear and tear. So ideally, rapid transit, in the long run will save you on infrastructure costs.

That's why road repairs = short term solution (it's relatively cheap year over year, and visible, and good for politics).

rapid transit = long term solution (expensive, slow to become visible therefore bad for politics).

[Pegger5]

Hopefully Winnipeg can hang on to its head offices and they don't all end up in Calgary.

Edmonton has a lot more than 3 head offices. A lot of them are private corporations such as PCL. In any event here is a few of the larger ones:

EPCOR,
Canadian Western Bank
Alberta Treasury Branch
PCL
Stantec
Biomira
Matrikon
Peace Hills Trust


One thing I really like about Alberta is the mountains absolutley spectacular scenery especially from the top of a summit!!

You are right Newflyer. I was talking about National/International companies. In Edmonton, that would eliminate, EPCOR CWBank, ACB, Peace Hills,
The only ones are PCL, Stantec and Katz Group (Rexall); those are the three I was thinking of. There is a list of HO's somewhere in this Canadian forum talking about the amount of HO's in each city. Edmonton does not even make the list...
Saying all that, Edmonton is doing very well supplying the Oil & Gas industry and having plump Government employees... For the record, I actually like Edmonton. It is a much closer city to the Peg than Calgary is.
Every city in Canada has something good to offer!

[Pegger5]

I think he meant large publicly traded corporations.

Edmonton is more of an industrail and petro services support city .. not as much a corporate head office location.
Winnipeg has far more than Edmonton... and some major ones are:

Can West Global
Richardson and Sons
Great West Life
New Flyer Industries
Domo Gas
MTS / AllStream
Wellington West Capital
Wawanesa Insurance
North West Company
Artic Equipment Co-op
Investors Group (largest mutual fund company in Canada)
Buhler Industries
Mondetta Sports Wear
Motor Coach indutries
Agricore United
Standard Aero
Rogers western head office
Rice Financial
Canad Inns
Cargil
Monsanto Canada
Bison Transport
Nygard International
Kitchen Craft
Palliser Furniture
Riemer Express
Ben Moss Jewelers
Hudson Bay Mining Company
Ridley Inc.
Paterson Grain
Cangene Inc.
Arctic Glacier
FP Publications Inc.
Poineer Grain
Winnipeg Commodity Exchange
Man-Shield
Ceridian Canada
Creswin Inc.
MB Hydro
Ipos Reid
K-Tel
Golden West Media

... ect ect .. I am know I missed a bunch.

.. but as you can tell Winnipeg is miles ahead of Edmonton in head offices. These are not fly-by-night operations either, they have been established in Winnipeg for decades for the most part... I really doubt Calgary would have much to offer .. except jacked up office rates and no staff. As you can tell Winnipeg has a strong core of agriculture and transport companies with a good amount of media and bioscience. Calgary has very little in any of these fields. Infact I wouldn't be suprised in Agruim relocated to Winnipeg in the next few years. It is the centre of agriculture in Canada.


How could you forget Old Dutch Chips! :cheers: Born and raised in Winnipeg. Huge plant and HO in Inkster Park.. They also have plants in Calgary and Minneapolis..

Also, Bee-Maid Honey and a ton of clothing manufacturers that make original clothing and many that make clothing for all the big jean names like GAP, Levis etc.

[SmileyBoy]

How much is that new infrastructure overhaul going to be?? Did I hear something like $2.4 billion??

Seems like that's enough to rebuild almost every single major artery in the city.

[Only The Lonely..]

How much is that new infrastructure overhaul going to be?? Did I hear something like $2.4 billion??

Seems like that's enough to rebuild almost every single major artery in the city.

Ahh, that's just a drop in the bucket..

We're a big old city with lots of problems. ;)

[Boreal]

Great points drew, and I agree 110% ...I know that in our climate, roads cannot exist at 90% to 100% ...however, roads like Inkster Blvd, Route 90 between Ness and Notre Dame, Oak Point Highway (the parts not yet replaced) are beyond disgraceful. That is where I have issues ...and just the relative sad state of things ...like the bottleneck on Route 90 just south of Academy ...I assume the new street lights put in, set well back from the street, and the many dead trees and broken curbs that are seeing no attention means we will soon be saying a 3 lane Route 90 up to the bridge (which will still inevitably cause bottlenecks unless the massive amount of money is put up to add on to the bridge which is exceptionally unlikely in my opinion).

But yes, I understand the political element to it. :yes: And that does likely have a LOT to do with what is being done. Nonetheless, I still support the road repair right now.

[vid]

Old Dutch Chips started in Minnesota, expanded to Manitoba and Northwest Ontario in the 50s. The company is almost 80 years old.

The do make a wonderful chip though. :) And if I'm not mistaken, they have relocated most of their offices to Calgary.

[newflyer]

How could you forget Old Dutch Chips! :cheers: Born and raised in Winnipeg. Huge plant and HO in Inkster Park.. They also have plants in Calgary and Minneapolis..

Also, Bee-Maid Honey and a ton of clothing manufacturers that make original clothing and many that make clothing for all the big jean names like GAP, Levis etc.

Yes you are so right.... I forgot about Old Dutch. I am pretty sure there head office is still on Inkster.

others would be:

Warehouse One
Nutty Club
Western Glove
Clean Bee
Lakeside Hospitality
Salsbury House
Western Canada Lotteries
APTN

As far as Calgary goes... more and more non-oil companies are looking to move out of town, as local office and industrial space is extremely expensive and staffing has become a major concern to many.

For the record I am also a big Edmoton fan. It is a beautiful city. I have spend many evenings dining at the Sawmill, which is a very sucessful local restaurant chain. It also has one of my favorite drives, cruising down old groat road always makes me smile. There is no ill-will... each city is a separate entity and have individual characteristics which makes them special.

I would say I am a fan of all of Western Canadian cities, but am also extremely aware that each is different. No city has every characteristic .. and sometimes that is mistaken for weakness or criticism. I like to see that as the distinct charm which diffrentiates each. Who want every city to me the same .. not me.