Calgary Stoney Trail [Ring Road] [Archive] - Page 36

Seadood

Aug 2, 2011, 3:26 PM

Lots of work in the SE recently, several more piers at 22x and they've setup what looks to be an asphalt plant just north of Shepard (north of the CPR tracks but south of the canal)

The great thing about the SERR is that there is very little in the way. Wide open land and the lanes will go in quickly. The 22x corner is/will be a premier interchange - its very surrealistic to see the ponts going in and nothing around (development wise).

5seconds

Aug 3, 2011, 9:55 PM

Rockyview County Reeves scheduled a meeting for September with the Province about the Tsuu T'ina land swap.

http://www.rockyviewweekly.com/article/20110729/RVW0801/307299996/county-requests-meeting-with-province

The problem is that the Indian Act of 1908 requires public notice no later than 42 days before a referendum is to take place. Since both sides want an agreement before Stelmach is out of office, that puts the public notice to be released no later than August 19.

I'm not sure what the Reeves hope to learn, but the information will likely be out well before they have their meeting.

Then again, maybe the 'Deal before Stelmach is out' is overly optimistic.

Oliver Klozov

Aug 3, 2011, 11:55 PM

......
I'm not sure what the Reeves hope to learn, but the information will likely be out well before they have their meeting.

Probably compensation for loss of tax revenue although I can't really imagine that is very much on a grazing lease. Without the lease, it's nothing!

5seconds

Aug 4, 2011, 2:19 AM

Probably compensation for loss of tax revenue although I can't really imagine that is very much on a grazing lease. Without the lease, it's nothing!

Would they do that? If it ran on 37th street, would the City of Calgary get compensated for the loss of tax revenue for the houses expropriated?

para transit fellow

Aug 6, 2011, 12:36 AM

Probably compensation for loss of tax revenue although I can't really imagine that is very much on a grazing lease. Without the lease, it's nothing!

The meeting is because folks in bragg creek are complaining that no one asked their input on the reserve expanding to the west.

The again, the lease holders may also be upset. I understand that crown leaseholders can be paid surface access fees for any drilling/ oil production access onto their leasehold. There are sour gas production wells in that region... someone is losing money if the reserve expands to the west.

5seconds

Aug 6, 2011, 10:10 PM

The meeting is because folks in bragg creek are complaining that no one asked their input on the reserve expanding to the west.

I assume that the land issue was already presented to the area in 2009, right? I wonder if they will do open houses off-reserve once the final deal is made public.

The again, the lease holders may also be upset. I understand that crown leaseholders can be paid surface access fees for any drilling/ oil production access onto their leasehold. There are sour gas production wells in that region... someone is losing money if the reserve expands to the west.

The lands are leased exclusively by the Copithorne family, and the leases are due to expire in November. I hadn't heard of land access fees that the Copithornes would be entitled to. Interesting information.

para transit fellow

Aug 6, 2011, 10:37 PM

I assume that the land issue was already presented to the area in 2009, right? I wonder if they will do open houses off-reserve once the final deal is made public.

To the best of my knowledge there was no presentation of the proposed reserve expansion to residents of the Bragg Creek region back in 2009.

5seconds

Aug 10, 2011, 2:34 PM

The Federal Government has appointed a representative to make sure that any ring road agreement follows guidelines for federal land transfers.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2011/08/09/negotiator-tapped-for-ring-road-talks

Although the Sun characterises the role as a 'Negotiator' in reality it seems that their job is to ensure that any agreement will be legal and will be able to be enacted on a federal level. I don't believe that the federal government has any mandate to be a part of the actual negotiation of the agreement, as that is a provincial matter.

Also, I think the comment section for that article has finally hit rock bottom, with the veiled call for the murder of the Tsuu T'ina people.

lubicon

Aug 22, 2011, 6:36 PM

Quick update on Stoney/Crowchild.

they have made pretty decent progress as of late. The old SB portion of Stoney (where you used to turn off Crowchild) is pretty much all gone now and they have been going full tilt on the new NB lanes. As of yesterday afternoon they have even gravelled, packed, and now oiled the NB lanes, north of Crowchild. If this pace keeps up the new NB lanes could be opening sooner than I had thought.

On a related note, the 2 spans of the Tuscany/Scenic Acres pedestrian overpass look ptetty substantial and are sitting on either side of Stoney. The bridge peirs on both ends and the middle still need lots of work, but things are moving along on this project as well.

And Alberta Transportation website is showing the Nose Hill interchange is going out to tender soon. Construction to start this fall, with a 2014 completion.

Barnes

Aug 22, 2011, 10:20 PM

The meeting is because folks in bragg creek are complaining that no one asked their input on the reserve expanding to the west.

The again, the lease holders may also be upset. I understand that crown leaseholders can be paid surface access fees for any drilling/ oil production access onto their leasehold. There are sour gas production wells in that region... someone is losing money if the reserve expands to the west.

There is no oil and gas activity on the land in question. There are 3 wells drilled and abandoned in the '30s and one abandoned in 2004. EnCana has freehold rights to section 35 (not sure what will happen there) but none of the other lands have any mineral leases.

5seconds

Aug 23, 2011, 2:51 AM

Well, there will be no ring road deal for Stelmach. There has been no presentation of any deal to the Chief or the Tsuu T'ina Council yet, so the timeline has been blown on getting a deal in place for October 1. An offer may yet be finalised before Stelmach leaves office, but it cannot be voted on until after that.

5seconds

Aug 26, 2011, 2:03 AM

jsbertram

Aug 26, 2011, 6:58 AM

Something I didn't know about the Ring Road; in 1980, the city bought the land in Oakridge needed to secure the 37th street Right-of-way from Anderson to the reservoir, but they did it only on the condition that the road was *never* to cross the weaselhead/reservoir. (So much for the 'It was always meant to go up 37th street' argument)

....

in 1980, 'everyone knew' that the land west of Lakeview was DND land, so extending the Sarcee south through the DND land and west of the weaselhead & then swing east to connect to 37th St at Anderson was the way to go.

OOOOOOPS!
A Court decision said the DND land west of 37th St was taken from the Indian Reserve illegally, so the land had to be cleaned up by the DND and given back.

Any decision made by a previous City Council from 30+ years ago can be un-done by a later City Council.

They can get around this 'don't cross the weaselhead / reservoir' thinking by tunnelling under the area instead of building a bridge or a causeway.

5seconds

Aug 26, 2011, 2:46 PM

in 1980, 'everyone knew' that the land west of Lakeview was DND land, so extending the Sarcee south through the DND land and west of the weaselhead & then swing east to connect to 37th St at Anderson was the way to go.

OOOOOOPS!
A Court decision said the DND land west of 37th St was taken from the Indian Reserve illegally, so the land had to be cleaned up by the DND and given back.

In retrospect, it was actually a really good thing that a road was not built on the Harvey Barracks land prior to the 1990s. I can't even imagine the repercussions of having a road built, and then having the whole thing returned to the Nation.

Any decision made by a previous City Council from 30+ years ago can be un-done by a later City Council.

Oh yea, any by-law can be reversed. Unless there is some kind of caveat on the title to the land, effectively banning certain uses. I wonder if that might be the case, or how easy it would be to reverse that kind of thing.

They can get around this 'don't cross the weaselhead / reservoir' thinking by tunnelling under the area instead of building a bridge or a causeway.

I think the only tunneling they could do to get around that would be deep-bore tunneling, with no surface disturbance. The only tunneling plan I have seen (The Hansen plan) has cut and cover (or cut and leave-open), which turns the road effectively into a dam. I don't think I have ever heard of a full deep-bore tunnel being proposed for the area.

MalcolmTucker

Aug 26, 2011, 3:42 PM

full deep-bore tunnel being proposed for the area

That was one of the options presented at open houses in the spring.

mersar

Aug 28, 2011, 6:15 PM

Was down in the SE yesterday, and wow, lots of progress. Glenmore Trail has been realigned in a similar fashion to how Country Hills Blvd was detoured in the NE, with the detour alignment likely going to serve as the SB to WB and WB to NB ramps. But now that its detoured, the extent of the roadbed work is obvious, and north of Glenmore is looking pretty far along. The earth works for the future 130th ave interchange is also shaping up, between 114th ave and 22X there are probably close to a hundred pieces of heavy equipment working, and a good number also west along 22X between 88th and Deerfoot. Bridge deck looks to be well underway over the canal and at least 4 sets of piers are starting to poke up around the 22X/Stoney interchange.

Ferreth

Aug 28, 2011, 6:40 PM

Here's a couple of pictures I took at the beginning of August while taking off southbound looking east - showing the construction in the distance for the SE Ring Road. If you want to see a lot more aerial photos, follow the link (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ferreth/sets/72157627414677511/with/6089949978/), with more BC stuff to come.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6076/6089406743_0677bc7326_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ferreth/6089406743/)
17th to Chestermere P1010776 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ferreth/6089406743/) by ferreth (http://www.flickr.com/people/ferreth/), on Flickr

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6077/6089950670_7f61e829c6_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ferreth/6089950670/)
Dover - Erin Woods P1010777 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ferreth/6089950670/) by ferreth (http://www.flickr.com/people/ferreth/), on Flickr

You Need A Thneed

Aug 30, 2011, 4:23 PM

The Nose Hill Drive interchange is out for tender.

Includes bridge over Stoney for Nose Hill Drive, widening the existing bridge over the CP Rail tracks, building a new bridge for the SBL over the CP Rail tracks, a new pedestrian bridge over the CP Rail tracks, three pedestrian underpasses under Stoney, Nose Hill Drive, and a ramp, and a wildlife underpass under Nose Hill drive.

Lights are supposed to be removed off of Stoney by end of July, 2012.
Total Completion by Oct 2013.

freeweed

Aug 30, 2011, 5:35 PM

Lights are supposed to be removed off of Stoney by end of July, 2012.

:banana:

Of course, we still have 2 more years of slow construction zones. But baby steps, baby steps...

Mazrim

Aug 30, 2011, 9:58 PM

Lights are supposed to be removed off of Stoney by end of July, 2012.
That's discouraging news. That was supposed to be done with the implementation of the detour before winter.

You Need A Thneed

Aug 31, 2011, 5:02 PM

That's discouraging news. That was supposed to be done with the implementation of the detour before winter.

Probably delays in getting the drawings ready for tender. The closing date will likely be around a month from now once the inevitable addenda push back the closing date a couple of weeks. Then a couple of weeks to award, and a couple of weeks to mobilize, and we won't see a contractor on site until November. Then it's too late to get the detours in before freeze up.

Doug

Aug 31, 2011, 10:39 PM

RFP is already out for Macleod/22X. ;) The RFP calls it Macleod Trail / Stoney Trail Interchange, btw.

I will try to find out the estimated date of construction.

Any more info on this? I drove my there the other day and there are no signs of construction. Fully agree that this will become a huge bottleneck once the interchanges to the east open.

Mazrim

Aug 31, 2011, 11:56 PM

RFP means Request for Proposal. There will be no tender/construction for quite a while. Maybe late next year? The RFP stage has been completed and a firm has been awarded the design contract, though. IIRC the interchange itself isn't anything mind blowing. Typical Parclo B I believe.

The Fisher Account

Sep 1, 2011, 2:14 AM

Does anyone know if there's going to be an overpass at the Macleod Tr and 162 intersection anytime soon?

mersar

Sep 1, 2011, 2:43 AM

Does anyone know if there's going to be an overpass at the Macleod Tr and 162 intersection anytime soon?

It was on the 2008-2018 TIIP list, but I think its since fallen off it.

freeweed

Sep 7, 2011, 3:49 PM

The NB lanes under Crowchild are being paved this week. Not sure when they might open but hopefully before winter. They really make the bridge look freaking HUGE! I can easily see this being a 12 lane freeway if fully built out.

The pedestrian bridge to Tuscany is coming along quickly. "Lane restrictions" are in effect all week, but I don't know if they're ready to put the bridge up just yet - looks like they're still working on the supports.

lubicon

Sep 7, 2011, 6:13 PM

I was under the impression that the interchange was supposed to be substantially complete before the winter.

mersar

Sep 11, 2011, 4:59 PM

The NB lanes of Stoney are mostly paved, still no work on the last ramp though (not even the base gravel yet). Bridge is still sitting there in two pieces, looks like the centre pier isn't ready yet (still has forms up on it).

And on the upside it looks like the condition of Crowchild through this area will improve shortly. There is a sign up indicating that Crowchild west of Nosehill is getting repaved this week (mostly just top layer from the Crowfoot work, but it kind of extends into the Stoney intersection as well). In preparation for this they've removed the jersey barriers that were restricting Crowchild down to 2 lanes from the edge of the Stoney interchange to Crowfoot LRT, so hopefully once its paved it will be up to its final 3 lane width through this area permanently. They've poured some of the permanent barrier west of Crowfoot so hopefully only temporary lane closures once LRT construction picks up.

Cage

Sep 12, 2011, 6:45 PM

Signs at the Stoney-Crow advise of paving on Crowchild between September 12 and 25th and to expect delays. Detour through Nose Hil Drive is advised on the signage.

freeweed

Sep 13, 2011, 5:05 PM

Signs at the Stoney-Crow advise of paving on Crowchild between September 12 and 25th and to expect delays.

I realize this isn't what they intend on saying, but like every project here I already expect delays. Well into October if past experience is any indication.

kap384

Sep 17, 2011, 9:35 PM

Tons of NW work this weekend!:D

Almost all of the top layer paving is done on the westbound lanes of Crowchild, including the associated portions of the Crowfoot LRT road network on the north side of the station. Nice to smooth out those sections finally.

As mersar alluded, looks like we might be opening up to full westbound lanes in the near future with lots of clean-up going on. Construction material is being cleaned up all around the interchange including some c-can storage containers that have been needlessly blocking westbound Crowchild forcing people exiting from Crowfoot to merge into traffic before exiting back onto NB Stoney.

Permanent barrier has now been poured all the way from the bridge over Stoney Trail to Rocky Ridge Road. Finish paving has also continued on NB Stoney. Work now looks to be picking up on the remaining ramp also. Won't be surprised if base layer gravel is going down by tomorrow.

freeweed

Sep 19, 2011, 4:05 PM

And the EB lanes of Crowchild were being laid last night. It was an amazing operation to see, TONS of equipment and guys out there (plus one really cute female cop keeping traffic very slow). I love it when things actually move quickly instead of the stutter steps we see so often these days.

lubicon

Sep 19, 2011, 10:24 PM

Mazrim

Sep 19, 2011, 11:43 PM

Looks like a race to the finish between the following 2 projects:

1. Stoney Trail / Crowchild interchange - started construction 2005. Anticipated opening to traffic in fall of 2011.

2. NW Anthony Henday Drive (Edmonton). Started construction summer 2008. Anticipated opening fall 2011. Scope of project - 21-kilometre Northwest Anthony Henday Drive will stretch from Yellowhead Trail on the west side of Edmonton to Manning Drive. When completed, the roadway will include eight interchanges, five flyovers, and two rail crossings, for a total of 29 bridge structures

Man has this project dragged on...

Except you're comparing apples and oranges.

Stoney/Crowchild is a traditional delivery project which has seen multiple major revisions during the design and construction phases. NW Anthony Henday is a single P3 project, which allows for accelerated design and construction, with the additional benefit of consistent design for all portions at once.

DoubleK

Sep 21, 2011, 3:18 AM

Hi Guys,

New to the forum.

Was wondering if anyone knew anything about the earthworks done in July at 22X and McLeod. Is this slated for construction next year or is it just a tease?

Can't find anything on AT's website.

freeweed

Sep 21, 2011, 2:28 PM

Except you're comparing apples and oranges.

Stoney/Crowchild is a traditional delivery project ... NW Anthony Henday is a single P3 project

I think that's part of his point...

5seconds

Sep 22, 2011, 3:31 PM

AECOM gets the (EDIT: design and planning) contract for the Stoney/McLeod interchange:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2011/09/21/prweb8816661.DTL

AECOM will provide planning, design and construction administration for a new full cloverleaf interchange, two new structures over the MacLeod Trail and Canadian Pacific railway tracks, and the twinning of the Stoney Trail (Highway 22X). The upgrade will help handle the additional traffic volume anticipated once the Southeast Stoney Trail is opened, scheduled for September 2013.

tenth

Sep 22, 2011, 4:00 PM

para transit fellow

Sep 22, 2011, 4:34 PM

You Need A Thneed

Sep 22, 2011, 4:39 PM

AECOM gets contract for the Stoney/McLeod interchange:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2011/09/21/prweb8816661.DTL

According to that link, it doesn't look like that's a construction contract. Only $4.6 million.

5seconds

Sep 22, 2011, 4:51 PM

According to that link, it doesn't look like that's a construction contract. Only $4.6 million.

Yes, it's a design and planning contract.

5seconds

Sep 22, 2011, 5:11 PM

Rocky View County has posted this info to their website

http://www.rockyview.ca/Default.aspx?tabid=792&EntryId=303

of interest is the map -- which has been updated to indicate the road allowances affected by the proposed land swap.

Interesting. That map is the first map of that land I have seen that has been put together by any kind of governmental agency. (Nice to know that my mapping skills are up to par when compared to this!)

I know that a Reeve for the county was meant to have a meeting with the Province this month about the Tsuu T'ina deal, so I wonder if they are preparing some information ahead of releasing any details of that meeting?

EDIT: I have had confirmation from Rocky View Council that the map of the proposed new Reserve lands was actually supplied to the county by the Province itself.

Mazrim

Sep 22, 2011, 5:25 PM

That's great news for those of us in the South. It's really nice that the lights on 22x will disappear, but I'm not excited about a full cloverleaf. I suppose traffic heading to/coming from South of 22x onto/off of 22x isn't huge, but there's definitely a lot of traffic from/to the North using it. Will be interesting to see how that works.

I'm guessing it's a modern cloverleaf, as in there are C-D roads for the loops, so weaving ramp traffic isn't interacting with mainline traffic at all. No one allows the older style cloverleafs to be built anymore.

You Need A Thneed

Sep 22, 2011, 5:27 PM

I'm guessing it's a modern cloverleaf, as in there are C-D roads for the loops, so weaving ramp traffic isn't interacting with mainline traffic at all. No one allows the older style cloverleafs to be built anymore.

The left turning traffic numbers should be low compared to the total amount of traffic. A full cloverleaf with C/D lanes might work just fine.

Mazrim

Sep 22, 2011, 5:44 PM

The left turning traffic numbers should be low compared to the total amount of traffic. A full cloverleaf with C/D lanes might work just fine.

Agreed, but separating weaving traffic removes the biggest negative to a cloverleaf (High speed traffic interacting with low speed traffic), and also allows for Stoney Trail's future widening and speed increase to 100km/h and 110km/h without any additional changes to the ramps.

DoubleK

Sep 23, 2011, 2:39 AM

According to that link, it doesn't look like that's a construction contract. Only $4.6 million.

Looks like an Design + Owners Engineer contract to me.

kap384

Sep 23, 2011, 2:48 PM

Northbound lanes under Crowchild are now open to traffic, jersey barriers were being removed this morning on the south lanes and topsoil is being put down in the ditch between the lanes. Off-ramp from from EB Crowchild to NB Stoney looks to have final grading done, so probably seeing it oiled right away.

Nice to have that rough weave heading NB on Stoney just before Crowchild gone.

lubicon

Sep 23, 2011, 5:51 PM

freeweed

Sep 23, 2011, 6:35 PM

So how many lanes are open each way? Looks like it could be 4-5 on the SB lanes, unless they make a HUGE shoulder. I'm not sure how wide the NB were paved.

kap384

Sep 23, 2011, 6:40 PM

Not sure on the Crowchild - Tuscany exit thing. I was trying to catch as much of the action on my drive this morning as I could. Lots of lights and equipment out for the early morning commute.

I think it's going to be 3 lanes with very wide shoulders. Could be wrong, but I've been contemplating this looking at the current SB lanes and that seemed to make the most sense.

mersar

Sep 23, 2011, 6:44 PM

So how many lanes are open each way? Looks like it could be 4-5 on the SB lanes, unless they make a HUGE shoulder. I'm not sure how wide the NB were paved.

NB should be 3, SB will be 3 after the WB->SB ramp merges in under the bridge. Huge shoulders though, and quite wide lanes were the plan with the idea that they can easily rearrange them to add additional lanes in the future when warranted.

Oliver Klozov

Sep 23, 2011, 6:57 PM

NB should be 3, SB will be 3 after the WB->SB ramp merges in under the bridge. Huge shoulders though, and quite wide lanes were the plan with the idea that they can easily rearrange them to add additional lanes in the future when warranted.

Yup, that third lane continues south and becomes the exit for Tuscany. The EB-SB ramp merges into that lane. Beyond Tuscany, it is 2 lanes down the hill for now.

NB is 3 lanes all the way from Nose Hill to beyond Country Hills. NB traffic from Tuscany/Scenic weaves with NB-EB Crowchild traffic, then merges with the EB-NB ramp and then merges into the outside 3rd NB lane north of the Crowchild bridges. It appears that the WB-NB ramp from Crowchild becomes a 4th lane that exits at Country Hills.

lubicon

Sep 23, 2011, 11:05 PM

Yup, that third lane continues south and becomes the exit for Tuscany. The EB-SB ramp merges into that lane. Beyond Tuscany, it is 2 lanes down the hill for now.

NB is 3 lanes all the way from Nose Hill to beyond Country Hills. NB traffic from Tuscany/Scenic weaves with NB-EB Crowchild traffic, then merges with the EB-NB ramp and then merges into the outside 3rd NB lane north of the Crowchild bridges. It appears that the WB-NB ramp from Crowchild becomes a 4th lane that exits at Country Hills.

The SB part makes sense. Lots of traffic exiting off Crowchild heading south to Tuscany and the TCH. Now they won't have to merge at all if heading for Tuscany, and won't have to merge for a long distance if heading further south on Stoney.

I'll be most interested in how the speed limits work for the weave portion where NB Stoney>EB Crowchild mixes with traffic coming out of Tuscany and heading north onto Stoney. If they make it 60 km/hr all the way until you merge onto Stoney north of Crowchild I'm going to slit my wrists. Hopefully it will be 80 at the lowest in the weave area, maybe dropping to 60 for traffic heading around the ramp onto Crowchild.

kap384

Sep 27, 2011, 2:42 PM

Noticed the EB Crowchild < NB Stoney ramp is now open. Working on paving the long merge lane from Tuscany/Scenic Acres to Stoney

freeweed

Sep 27, 2011, 4:39 PM

Noticed the EB Crowchild < NB Stoney ramp is now open.

Yup, new this morning.

It also creates one of the tighter weave zones between that ramp and the on-coming traffic from SB-EB. Nowhere near as bad as a cloverleaf, but it still surprised me how short it is. When the speed's up to 80 (in theory it'll happen before I retire... grumble) it might be interesting.

VANRIDERFAN

Sep 27, 2011, 7:31 PM

I'll be going through Calgary during Thanksgiving. Is it quicker to take Stoney Trail or do we just stay on the TCH? We'll be going through on a Friday at about 3pm.

You Need A Thneed

Sep 27, 2011, 8:00 PM

I'll be going through Calgary during Thanksgiving. Is it quicker to take Stoney Trail or do we just stay on the TCH? We'll be going through on a Friday at about 3pm.

Friday afternoon rush hour? I'd be taking Stoney.

tmjr

Sep 28, 2011, 12:03 AM

Yup, new this morning.

It also creates one of the tighter weave zones between that ramp and the on-coming traffic from SB-EB. Nowhere near as bad as a cloverleaf, but it still surprised me how short it is.

Isn't the NB-WB/WB-SB weave even shorter? How well has that been working?

It seems to me that this is an unusual interchange, especially given how much room it takes. Perhaps that's because they designed it originally to open in stages??

jsbertram

Sep 28, 2011, 12:44 AM

I'll be going through Calgary during Thanksgiving. Is it quicker to take Stoney Trail or do we just stay on the TCH? We'll be going through on a Friday at about 3pm.

TCH during rush hour?
With everyone else trying get outta town early to start their long weekend too?
Shoot me and put me out of my misery.

I'd avoid TCH at all costs, unless you want to see the nifty improvements to 16th Ave they've been doing for the last few years.

freeweed

Sep 28, 2011, 4:52 AM

Friday afternoon rush hour? I'd be taking Stoney.

No nuclear bombs going off on Stoney? I'd be taking Stoney.

I can't conceive of any time it'd be faster to take 16th Ave. Maybe someone can work out the math assuming you hit every single light green, taking into account all the 50/60 zones.

freeweed

Sep 28, 2011, 4:54 AM

You Need A Thneed

Sep 28, 2011, 5:21 AM

No nuclear bombs going off on Stoney? I'd be taking Stoney.

I can't conceive of any time it'd be faster to take 16th Ave. Maybe someone can work out the math assuming you hit every single light green, taking into account all the 50/60 zones.

Back in High School, I think I once made it from 52nd street E to Bowness in about 15 minutes, along 16th Ave. I think every single light was green, miraculously. I did that trip once a week for a while back then, and it would usually take 35 minutes or so at that time of day.

Stoney is about 50km around the city? Should take 20-25 minutes or something. You won't be doing that on 16th ave.

freeweed

Sep 28, 2011, 2:15 PM

For what it's worth, according to Google Maps:

16th Ave: 22.2km, 23 mins

Stoney: 42km, 39 mins

I have some serious problems with this. First, I had to fudge it a bit because Google insisted on taking a non-existent ramp and doing a massive detour. But it's close. Second - who the hell can average 60km/h on 16th? And why is this same car only averaging 65km/h on Stoney?

I suspect 16th is closer to 30 minutes on a fairly good day. Stoney at that distance I can do in 22 legally, 20 if you're goosing it a bit.

Oliver Klozov

Sep 28, 2011, 5:29 PM

Stoney vs 16th -

I did Canmore to Chestermere/Strathmore and vice versa a few times for hockey last winter. My GPS always suggested 16th. I've tried and timed both. On a Saturday or Sunday morning, 16th is about 4-5 minutes faster on average. Saturday afternoon that would drop to 2-3 minutes. This is of course during the time that Stoney-Crowchild was still quite slow to get through and there is still the lights at Stoney-Nose Hill.

Friday afternoon rush - Stoney is bound to be faster. Once Stoney is 100 kph through Crowchild and the lights at Nose Hill are gone in favor of the detour setup, Stoney will probably be faster. Once the construction zone at Nose Hill is gone, there will be no doubt.

But even today, the aggravation factor favors Stoney over 16th for me.

freeweed

Sep 28, 2011, 6:35 PM

This is of course during the time that Stoney-Crowchild was still quite slow to get through and there is still the lights at Stoney-Nose Hill.

Friday afternoon rush - Stoney is bound to be faster. Once Stoney is 100 kph through Crowchild and the lights at Nose Hill are gone in favor of the detour setup, Stoney will probably be faster. Once the construction zone at Nose Hill is gone, there will be no doubt.

Good point. As I've never used a stopwatch, my brain just glosses over the obvious delays at Crowchild and Nose Hill. It probably IS a little slower at times right now. Which leads into:

But even today, the aggravation factor favors Stoney over 16th for me.

Bingo. I notice the same thing when going from Deerfoot to Stoney WB. I've actually timed this, and shortcutting via Beddington is a couple of minutes faster - but the annoyance of stopping at 1, 2, even 5 sets of lights just makes the longer route "feel" faster, so I take it instead.

lubicon

Sep 28, 2011, 8:39 PM

Isn't the NB-WB/WB-SB weave even shorter? How well has that been working?

Hmm, you may well be right. It's been a coupla years since I've looked at the site plan in detail. I don't often hit that stretch so I honestly have no personal observations, but those can be busy-ish ramps at the same time. Maybe they'll see the same challenges.

It probably looks worse than it is. The line painting is so fucked up right now that it's a miracle more accidents aren't happening. I guess 5 years of construction zone has everyone paying good attention.

You really can't get a good sense of how the weave is working right now. In my experience there is very little traffic going NB>WB so it's not a big issue when I'm headed WB>SB. But since this area is still a construction zone and there are still lights at the interchange I don't think we can get a true picture of how the weave will ultimately work.

On a different note it looks like they will be doing the NB>EB tie in this weekend as they have posted road closure signs for NB>EB traffic on Saturday night and again on Tuesday night.

lubicon

Sep 30, 2011, 3:46 PM

If I'm not mistaken the new NB>EB ramp is now open at Stoney/Crowchild. I didn't notice the signs indicating to use the Tuscany exit anymore, and the big overhead signs have the 'closed' portion removed which insunuates the new exit is now functioning at least partially.

para transit fellow

Sep 30, 2011, 5:34 PM

in case you missed the official news:

http://www.gov.ab.ca/acn/201109/31319B1E1BDF1-A376-6A9C-FCCF675D8BCF798A.html

September 28, 2011
Signal lights removed from Stoney Trail-Crowchild Trail interchange in Calgary

Calgary... Motorists may now enjoy free-flow conditions on the Stoney Trail-Crowchild Trail interchange in northwest Calgary.

The signal lights have been removed from the interchange and all ramps and exits are now open to free-flowing traffic.
Motorists are advised that there still will be construction activities on and around the interchange and that some speed restrictions still remain. Motorists should use caution in this area and obey all signs, message boards, and flag people. Fines for speeding are doubled in construction zones when workers are present.

freeweed

Sep 30, 2011, 5:41 PM

Calgary... Motorists may now enjoy free-flow conditions on the Stoney Trail-Crowchild Trail interchange in northwest Calgary.

Just so long as you're not taking SB Stoney right now. Traffic comes to pretty much a complete stop and crawls for far longer than any signal light.

One.. more... season...

Mazrim

Sep 30, 2011, 8:10 PM

One.. more... season...
Well, at least there. On SB Stoney, soon there will be reduced speeds and delays at Nose Hill, then again when they eventually extend Stoney Trail South of 16th Avenue NW. :whip:

mwalker_mw

Oct 1, 2011, 1:28 PM

"Motorists may now enjoy free-flow conditions on the Stoney Trail-Crowchild Trail interchange in northwest Calgary."

After driving to Cochrane yesterday... "free-flow" is perhaps a bit of an optimistic term...

lubicon

Oct 3, 2011, 5:44 PM

Paving is in full gear around the Stoney/Crowchild area. As others have mentioned, the SB lanes have been at a crawl all weekend as they repave the SB lanes all the way to almost the Tuscany interchange. Lots of paving on the NB lanes as well.

Over the weekend they lifted the 2 spans on the Tuscany / Scenic Acres pedestrian bridge into place. That was fun to watch on both Friday night and Saturday night when I came home at 12:30 AM.

freeweed

Oct 4, 2011, 11:59 PM

"full gear" is putting it mildly.

Pretty much every direction is cocked up right now. I've never seen so much asphalt being laid at the same time. It's gonna be awesome very soon!

Airboy

Oct 5, 2011, 2:53 PM

Have to say the Stoney Trail is a nice drive now even with one light still in place.

Made the drive down to Banff over the weekend, From Downtown Edmonton to Banff Springs in 4 hours. Used the new Henday Yellowhead interchange as well.

Both E&C ring roads are easy to travel the only down side was the QE2. To many people still seem to think driving slow in the left lane is their right.

mersar

Oct 6, 2011, 5:39 PM

Stoney at Crowchild is getting better, had to make a run to Cochrane this morning and its nice not having a half dozen conflicting lines on the road. Its not all paved yet but getting closer.

5seconds

Oct 7, 2011, 5:30 PM

I just found this on the Focus Engineering website. Stoney/Crowchild interchange.

http://www.focus.ca/sites/default/files/imagecache/services_slideshow/images/projects/stoney_crowchild.jpg

5seconds

Oct 7, 2011, 5:33 PM

jsbertram

Oct 9, 2011, 12:22 AM

And while I'm at it, the Proposed Glenmore/Sarcee/Stoney interchange (Highway 8/Stoney goes west at the top of the picture, Stoney goes south at the left.)

http://www.focus.ca/sites/default/files/imagecache/services_slideshow/images/projects/fps_-_southwest_calgary_ring_road.pub_page_1_image_0002.jpg

I laughed when I noticed the current Highway 8 west of Sarcee peeking out from the superimposed SWRR interchange rendering. It looks like a wagon trail compared to the full-build Stoney / Sarcee / Glenmore / Highway 8 roadways.

I wonder how many of those people living on the south edge of Sienna Hills and the north edge of Discovery Ridge already know how close their homes are going to be to the SWRR.

MalcolmTucker

Oct 9, 2011, 1:25 AM

When I went to an open house in March in Elbow Springs, there were some mighty pissed off people who will be just northeast of the future Highway 8 101 st turn of Stoney, and they were mighty pissed. Mighty pissed that they would have line of site and that no sound barrier would stop that since they live on a hill over looking the future road.

People buying million dollar houses, you would think they would pull even the most basic of regional plans.

That being said, I don't see the outer ring road being built ever, so that saves 8 lanes on the corridor.

mersar

Oct 9, 2011, 4:05 AM

Was down in the SE today again, the new twinned alignment of 22X is getting nearer in parts, east of 52nd its almost ready for paving in some parts (a good foot of gravel is in place, leveled and packed). Tons of work at 88th happening, and the road is in rough shape. Partly as they'd pushed some of the earth around the road causing the road to buckle upwards by about 2 feet along the edge. They've built a slight detour around the buckle but any sports car would probably bottom out on it still. 146th ave has been repaved, but the future N-S access to 84th from 22X via 106th is a ways off yet (its being worked on, but is no where near ready)

freeweed

Oct 9, 2011, 2:18 PM

I wonder how many of those people living on the south edge of Sienna Hills and the north edge of Discovery Ridge already know how close their homes are going to be to the SWRR.

Based on my experience with Discovery Ridge, none. The people there really haven't the first clue how civic infrastructure works - hell, it's why they moved there in the first place. You should hear the complaining from them when it comes to transit service (and now, how the WLRT will change that).

Expect a massive NIMBY fight if this were to go through.

5seconds

Oct 9, 2011, 5:05 PM

Expect a massive NIMBY fight if this were to go through.

With Stoney Trail terminating at the Transcanada, and the Corridor already owned by the Province, ins't it safe to assume it's a 'When' and not an 'If'.

Regardless of the SW portion (which I guess could still be an 'If'), I have to assume that the West side, Transcanada to Highway 8 part will be fairly straight forward, and the 101st St. - Sarcee Trail section will have to have *some* improvement, probably sooner than later. The Crowchild-Sarcee-69th Street area is a mess.

At least the initial build-out is planned at only 6 lanes, not the full 14 lanes with the outer ring road.

jsbertram

Oct 9, 2011, 5:50 PM

With Stoney Trail terminating at the Transcanada, and the Corridor already owned by the Province, ins't it safe to assume it's a 'When' and not an 'If'.

Regardless of the SW portion (which I guess could still be an 'If'), I have to assume that the West side, Transcanada to Highway 8 part will be fairly straight forward, and the 101st St. - Sarcee Trail section will have to have *some* improvement, probably sooner than later. The Crowchild-Sarcee-69th Street area is a mess.

At least the initial build-out is planned at only 6 lanes, not the full 14 lanes with the outer ring road.

From the drawings I've seen, the initial build-out is the 6 lanes of outer roadways (those closest to the residential districts) for the SWRR, with the space for the inner 'express lanes' of the full-build being left empty until these roadways are needed for the second outer ring-road (aka the Regional Ring Road) construction in 30-40 years' time.

Found this on the Focus website:

http://www.focus.ca/sites/default/files/imagecache/services_slideshow/images/projects/swcrr_preliminary_2.jpg
http://www.focus.ca/services/transportation-planning/sw-calgary-ring-road-functional-planning-study

This rendering shows the same Stoney / Sarcee / Glenmore interchange from the opposite viewing angle, and the second phase full-build roadways are coloured orange.

Notice also that in this rendering the E-W interchange on the Tsuu T’ina lands is shown as being connected on the East to 37th St, and on the West to a new road extension into Signal Hill Centre at Richmond Road (re-using the ROW of the restricted road to the city's Sarcee Works yard, since this yard will disappear with the new SWRR).

5seconds

Oct 9, 2011, 6:04 PM

You're right. For some reason I thought the Stoney Trail lanes were the inner lanes.

This is the 'Opening Day' plan by the Province for the Highway 8/Glenmore/37th/Sarcee interchange.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a400/jessesalus/swrr_initial_build_1.png

Which has the 37th interchange fully realised, though I cannot tell what the plan is for the Old Strathcona Road interchange. On the Ultimate build, it is fully implemented, but I don't know what the shaded lanes mean on this map, I think that might be showing future build, not opening day. Access to the Nation would have to be via 37th for quite a while.

I know the Westhills road is part of the Ultimate plan, not opening day.

freeweed

Oct 9, 2011, 6:07 PM

With Stoney Trail terminating at the Transcanada, and the Corridor already owned by the Province, ins't it safe to assume it's a 'When' and not an 'If'.

Well yeah, but when the "when" is measured in terms of decades already, with absolutely no hint of anything happening within the next 5 years... so much can change between now and then.

5seconds

Oct 9, 2011, 6:17 PM

Well yeah, but when the "when" is measured in terms of decades already, with absolutely no hint of anything happening within the next 5 years... so much can change between now and then.

True. Though I think there will be increasing pressure to build out the West portion regardless of the SW portion, so who knows.

I for one am glad that it has taken as long to build the SW portion. If the road had been built as planned in the 1970s, that road would have been build on disputed land, and imagine the mess that that would have caused once the land was returned to the Tsuu T'ina.

YYCguys

Oct 10, 2011, 7:18 AM

http://www.focus.ca/sites/default/files/imagecache/services_slideshow/images/projects/swcrr_preliminary_2.jpg
http://www.focus.ca/services/transportation-planning/sw-calgary-ring-road-functional-planning-study

Notice also that in this rendering the E-W interchange on the Tsuu T’ina lands is shown as being connected on the East to 37th St, and on the West to a new road extension into Signal Hill Centre at Richmond Road (re-using the ROW of the restricted road to the city's Sarcee Works yard, since this yard will disappear with the new SWRR).\

And what land use would be ideal for the leftover land (the Sarcee yard, that is) after the road is built: high density residential/more commercial/office/etc?

Doug

Oct 10, 2011, 1:51 PM

\

And what land use would be ideal for the leftover land (the Sarcee yard, that is) after the road is built: high density residential/more commercial/office/etc?

When WestHills was first planned in late 80s/early 90s, the Sarcee yard was supposed to become office space. The site will needs lots of fill to bring it up to grade.

5seconds

Oct 10, 2011, 3:19 PM

When WestHills was first planned in late 80s/early 90s, the Sarcee yard was supposed to become office space. The site will needs lots of fill to bring it up to grade.

I wonder if that will still be the case with the Tsuu T'ina development that would go in if a ring road goes ahead. Their plan calls for 150 acres of offices roughly along 37th street, from the casino to the weaselhead.

Also, have there ever been any specific plans for where the LRT might go in Westhills if the road were approved by the Nation?

Doug

Oct 10, 2011, 4:22 PM

I wonder if that will still be the case with the Tsuu T'ina development that would go in if a ring road goes ahead. Their plan calls for 150 acres of offices roughly along 37th street, from the casino to the weaselhead.

Also, have there ever been any specific plans for where the LRT might go in Westhills if the road were approved by the Nation?

I doubt office space on Tsuu T'ina land would be all that marketable.

5seconds

Oct 11, 2011, 3:40 PM

I doubt office space on Tsuu T'ina land would be all that marketable.

It's a great location, and the Westmount Corporate Campus (not too far away) seems to be doing well. As long as the price is good and public transportation is implemented well (and why not, it's just down the road from the LRT) I don't see why it wouldn't be marketable.

Mazrim

Oct 11, 2011, 5:10 PM

Expect a massive NIMBY fight if this were to go through.

Meh, not much they can do. It's all on government owned land in that area, and it's not like they're encroaching on their property in the process. Buyer Beware, you know, since it's been in the plans for a long time.

You Need A Thneed

Oct 12, 2011, 4:09 PM

Apparently 60th St / 96th Ave connection is open to Stoney Trail as of this morning. I drove by last night, and it looked ready to open.

City of Calgary link. (http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/TI/Pages/Road-projects/96-Avenue-NE---60-Street-to-Stoney-Trail-East.aspx)

tmjr

Oct 12, 2011, 5:17 PM

5seconds

Oct 12, 2011, 5:41 PM

Don Braid in his article in the Herald today said that Luc Ouellette "gave Calgary's Tsuu T'ina ring road the best try of any PC minister in decades." (http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Braid+Wrong+choice+temps+could+permanent+damage/5537086/story.html)

Any thoughts on what Ray Danyluk being appointed the new Transportation Minister will have on the SWRR?

My gut instinct says that whatever plan that has been prepared over the last 2-3 months (a slightly revised 2009 plan) will be presented to the Nation as prepared, no deviations. If the nation accept, then the work will begin before anyone can pull out.

If the Nation rejects it again, then I don't think anyone can tell what will happen.

Again, my first reaction in this case is that a Bragg Creek bypass would be studied (as Redford has stated is her preference in absence of a Tsuu T'ina deal) and that there will be pressure to build out the West Ring Road from the Trans-Canada to highway 8, and a twinning of highway 8 from there to Sarcee Trail as an interim measure.

The work on the 5 alternatives may continue, as the Transportation website has stated that the next set of open houses are delayed (Indefinitely so long as the Tsuu T'ina are still at the table I think, otherwise, next spring?). I believe they are to narrow the choice to 1 alignment, but 2 proposed build-out options. (Wether this happens might be down to if Redford kills that line of thought altogether, but something tells me that she would let it play itself out since so much work has already been done.)

As for Ray Danyluk, I have no real sense of how he operates or what his priorities might be. He was involved in Bill 19 and says this:

“I am in charge of Bill 19, and I want it to be very clear about Bill 19, that Bill 19 does not take away any rights. In fact, what has happened is Bill 19 has added rights. Bill 19 is only used in two particular situations. One of them would be in a large setting, whether it be a transportation corridor, like a ring road around Calgary, and it could be used for a water reservoir.”

What that actually tells us? Who knows!

You Need A Thneed

Oct 12, 2011, 7:09 PM

5seconds

Oct 12, 2011, 7:52 PM

If the Tsuu Tina reject the old agreement again, I'm not sure why they would accept any land deal for a Bragg Creek alignment.

A HWY22 alignment is a nonstarter, period. It makes no sense for anyone.

How much of an allowance does the Province own through the reserve north of Bragg Creek? I know it was tight, but could they fit 4 lanes with decent shoulders?

It makes no sense for anyone.

When has that ever stopped a good old-fashioned boondongle? :haha:

MalcolmTucker

Oct 12, 2011, 8:41 PM

How much of an allowance does the Province own through the reserve north of Bragg Creek? I know it was tight, but could they fit 4 lanes with decent shoulders?

When has that ever stopped a good old-fashioned boondongle? :haha:
Width of the corridor:

For reference, between the two dashed lines is a 1/2 mile, 804.67 meters.
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/6586/22corridor.jpg

tmjr

Oct 12, 2011, 8:44 PM

Any thoughts on what Ray Danyluk being appointed the new Transportation Minister will have on the SWRR?

Mayor Nenshi's take [Calgary Herald] (http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/calgary/Mayor+Nenshi+will+press+cabinet+ministers+ring+road+progress/5539773/story.html)
Nenshi already has high hopes for some conclusion of the southwest ring-road talks with a premier who represents Lakeview, and likes the veteran Danyluk — architect of the current municipal funding deal — as a key point-man on that file.

“I would be surprised, very surprised, if the premier did not have a significant commitment to concluding negotiations on the Tsuu T’ina option sooner rather than later,” Nenshi said in an interview.

“I’d imagine that’s why she’s put such an experienced minister into that particular portfolio.”

I wonder if knowing the Premier won't support running the SWRR down 37th St. near Lakeview will change the Tsuu T'ina's negotiating tack?