[kap384]

Sweeping debris from off-ramps on Country Hills overpass @ Stoney. Crews removing pylons and diverting lights. Tomorrow possibly? I'm thinking Monday at the latest for this portion.:banana:

[yeeg]

thats all I need them to open, Tuscany to Beacon Hill...Will save me a few minutes to work...Makes sense to open it on the weekend, lets ppl get used to the change...

[kap384]

Sweeping debris from off-ramps on Country Hills overpass @ Stoney. Crews removing pylons and diverting lights. Tomorrow possibly? I'm thinking Monday at the latest for this portion.:banana:

My enthusiasm may have been premature:(

Looks like the 'sweeping' didn't really clean the off-ramps at all, the pylons just seem to have been adjusted, and I think they swapped out the light trailers as they are still there.

On a more positive note, looks like things are progressing quickly at the 85 St. re-alignment.

[YYCguys]

On a more positive note, looks like things are progressing quickly at the 85 St. re-alignment.
I have to go to Royal Oak tomorrow from Airdrie. My usual route is via 144 Ave to 85th Street. Should I be thinking about a detour or is the road still open for traffic?

[mersar]

85th may still be closed south of 112th Ave (I think the sign said until Monday). Detour is to go further west on 144th to Rocky Ridge Road, and back east on Country Hills.

I'm planning on taking a run up past Beddington and Stoney to check on its state on my way home (currently stuck over by the airport fixing a server), so if its open or not I'll post later.

I went and took a run past the NE section earlier tonight, 4 of the bridges at 16th Avenue have girders on now, the eastmost bridge over 16th looks like they are doing the deck currently. The mainline bridges are a bit further behind, they have poured the cap on the pier on one but not the other. Country Hills looks to be getting closer to being done, in the dark it looked like they had paved at least on the east side of the bridge down to where the old alignment is.

[mersar]

Alright, so Beddington is running on both sides of the bridge now, however no traffic lights installed yet and they've put concrete barriers to block off access to all the ramps. Sarcee they've painted the lines on the other side now and the traffic lights were flashing orange. The yet to be opened lanes on Sarcee were blocked off with pylons and plastic barriers only. Street lights along Stoney itself were on only as far as Sarcee.

85th is still closed, the sign at 144th seem to be knocked over though, but if you do go south on 85th you can still get onto 112th to head over to Sarcee.

[yeeg]

Sarcee overpass was open this morning in both directions...

[freeweed]

So no Ring Road yet (not much of a surprise, I think the glaciers are retreating faster than this project).

One thing that continues to amuse and infuriate me, is that the street lights have been turned on at night for a long time now on the stretch of Stoney between CHB and Sarcee. A road that sees no traffic. Yet in many of the adjacent construction zones the lights have been off for months (parts of Stoney south of CHB are notorious for this).

Why is it so damned hard to have lights turned on where traffic IS, and off where traffic ISN'T?

Nothing quite as dangerous as suddenly driving onto a completely dark road in a major metropolitan area. Especially one frequented by deer.

I can understand a brief outage when they're moving light poles, or when electrical lines are being re-routed, but these situations go on for MONTHS in this city. :hell:

[ScottFromCalgary]

So no Ring Road yet (not much of a surprise, I think the glaciers are retreating faster than this project).

How long has it been since they started construction? It seems like Stoney Trail@Crowchild has been taking forever.

[mersar]

How long has it been since they started construction? It seems like Stoney Trail@Crowchild has been taking forever.

4 years now on this stretch.

Stoney@Crowchild is a special case now since its been pushed back by the work needed for the XRT, and that work isn't getting underway until spring. If it hadn't been for that the new bridges would have been in use and its quite possible that Stoney would have been rerouted under them by this time.

That said, the Scenic Acres bridge is motoring along pretty good now, its only been under construction for a month now (since the detour opened) and they've already got a good number of piles done, and is at least on schedule for its opening in fall 2009.

[lubicon]

How long has it been since they started construction? It seems like Stoney Trail@Crowchild has been taking forever.

I guess it really depends on what portion of Stoney you are talking about. When I moved to Calgary in 1997 the portion of Stoney south of Crowchild was under construction (south towards 16 Ave). That puts it at almost 12 years of continuous construction to date. Pathetic.

[ScottFromCalgary]

LMAO at 12 years of continuous construction. I never really thought of it that way. What is this, Montreal?!?!

[Trogdor]

Apparently Stoney Trail is now partially open, according to 660 News.

http://www.660news.com/traffic/index.jsp

[kap384]

Co-worker's brother just called to say that Stoney is open from CHB to Sarcee. Any corroboration out there?

[You Need A Thneed]

Global news said it was open as well, and showed some cars driving on it.

[bpakish]

It is open. I just drove on it. Very nice!! Finally.

[freeweed]

Open to Sarcee, detoured on the way tp the Flames game. Hooray for Blackberries and new roads!

[kap384]

Yep, just drove it. Not to often you get to drive a 6 lane highway when it's virtually empty.

[mersar]

Looks like thats probably as much as will open this year though, theres concrete barriers on all the ramps, big signs (not the portable solar ones but actual metal signs) indicating the road ends and the lines they pained at the Sarcee end direct you straight up the ramp.

[freeweed]

Looks like thats probably as much as will open this year though, theres concrete barriers on all the ramps, big signs (not the portable solar ones but actual metal signs) indicating the road ends and the lines they pained at the Sarcee end direct you straight up the ramp.

Plus, if you notice the eastbound section narrows to 2 lanes shortly after CHB (unless I'm on crack). The only conceivable reason I can see for this is to get drivers used to the 2 exit lanes onto Sarcee, which may be the forseeable future. Westbound it's 3 lanes solid, baby!

What a nice early birthday present. It's been well over a decade since I've driven on a brand new road like this - not a lane expansion or some minor extension, but an honest-to-goodness, kilometers-long entire new road.

This thing has definitely been engineered for 100km/h from the start (although it's only 80 right now due to the shortness and general construction activities).

Cue the "cars are evil" crowd. ;)

[mersar]

Yeah, I was thinking the same about the part that narrows to two lanes.

Gotta admit though, it maps this map (http://informationfreeway.org/?lat=51.143571664543614&lon=-114.20291866632107&zoom=13&layers=B0000F000F) look so much better now its open. Be better once its all done though

[freeweed]

Ya know, driving over it again this morning just for fun, I'm inclined to believe that 2 lane section is more permanent than we'd like. There clearly is room to expand to 3 lanes but either another lane will be poured or the shoulders will get very narrow there.

Plus, the permanent (green) sign at Sarcee indicating the lanes that continue for Stoney - there are only 2 arrows for Stoney.

I have a feeling deep in my gut that this is going to be yet another "surprise" on this road - oh, hey, surprise! This 6 lane freeway will actually have sections of 4, and oh, by the way, there will be traffic lights on it.

ie: I think once again someone cheaped out and dropped the ball.

[You Need A Thneed]

Ya know, driving over it again this morning just for fun, I'm inclined to believe that 2 lane section is more permanent than we'd like. There clearly is room to expand to 3 lanes but either another lane will be poured or the shoulders will get very narrow there.

Plus, the permanent (green) sign at Sarcee indicating the lanes that continue for Stoney - there are only 2 arrows for Stoney.

I have a feeling deep in my gut that this is going to be yet another "surprise" on this road - oh, hey, surprise! This 6 lane freeway will actually have sections of 4, and oh, by the way, there will be traffic lights on it.

ie: I think once again someone cheaped out and dropped the ball.

There will definately be sections of two-lanes per direction to start. I don't think that that's a problem either.

I know for the NE section, its going to be 3 lanes between 16th and McKnight, and between Deerfoot and Metis, everywhere else will be 2 lanes to start, with the third lane built when it is required (written into the P3 contract I believe). A two lane roadway with no lights can handle a lot of cars before it starts getting congested to the point of slowing down.

[freeweed]

I know for the NE section, its going to be 3 lanes between 16th and McKnight, and between Deerfoot and Metis, everywhere else will be 2 lanes to start, with the third lane built when it is required (written into the P3 contract I believe). A two lane roadway with no lights can handle a lot of cars before it starts getting congested to the point of slowing down.

Important to note that for the non-P3 sections, this basically means that we'll have 2 lane sections for several decades based on past history.

Ah well, baby steps.

[lubicon]

Plus, if you notice the eastbound section narrows to 2 lanes shortly after CHB (unless I'm on crack). The only conceivable reason I can see for this is to get drivers used to the 2 exit lanes onto Sarcee, which may be the forseeable future. Westbound it's 3 lanes solid, baby!

What a nice early birthday present. It's been well over a decade since I've driven on a brand new road like this - not a lane expansion or some minor extension, but an honest-to-goodness, kilometers-long entire new road.

This thing has definitely been engineered for 100km/h from the start (although it's only 80 right now due to the shortness and general construction activities).

Cue the "cars are evil" crowd. ;)

Sweet (almost). At least my trips to Costco will be much easier now. It's a real shame though if it doesn't open at least to Beddington this fall.

And you are right about the feeling of driving a brand new road. The new SE portion of Anthony Henday Drive in Edmonton gives me the same feeling every time I drive it.

[You Need A Thneed]

And you are right about the feeling of driving a brand new road. The new SE portion of Anthony Henday Drive in Edmonton gives me the same feeling every time I drive it.

When the Deerfoot Extention opened up, I remember that feeling. When the ring road opens up all the way around the NE next fall, I'll probobly have to drive it just for that feeling.

[yeeg]

When the Deerfoot Extention opened up, I remember that feeling. When the ring road opens up all the way around the NE next fall, I'll probobly have to drive it just for that feeling.
the feeling I got was confusion...lol...It was at night so I couldnt easily figure out which direction I was heading...

[mersar]

the feeling I got was confusion...lol...It was at night so I couldnt easily figure out which direction I was heading...

Yeah, there were a number of people heading NB that were used to taking the ramp up to CHB, and ended up either missing the turn or making a hard turn to get onto the exit ramp.

There was similar confusion at 85th and 112th, since they opened the new alignment of 112th that brings it to Country Hills, but the new alignment of 85th isn't open yet, so you have to turn onto 112th at where the two used to intersect, then turn south again where 112th now angles towards CHB. The downside being there are zero street lights, so you can't really make out where the road is in the dark

[bpakish]

Sweet (almost). At least my trips to Costco will be much easier now. It's a real shame though if it doesn't open at least to Beddington this fall.

And you are right about the feeling of driving a brand new road. The new SE portion of Anthony Henday Drive in Edmonton gives me the same feeling every time I drive it.

Yeah, it would be nice to have it open at least to Beddington so that you could use it to bypass the congested parts of CHB and also have the ability to go North on Beddington to head to HWY 2 without going throug the city. Right now, Sarcee ends at Beacon Hill, so the road opening to there doesn't help you get out of the city at all.

[mersar]

Yeah, to Beddington would have been nice. I'm curious as to why they only opened this far, I can see there may still be some work on the bridge over Nose Creek that may have stopped any further east (there were still some boxes of some sort and other material on the bridge last I was up there), but up to Beddington looked to be done from what I'd seen.

[Full Mountain]

Does anyone know if there are plans to slow deerfoot down to 80 once the ring road is complete to encourage through traffic to take the ring road?

[mersar]

Does anyone know if there are plans to slow deerfoot down to 80 once the ring road is complete to encourage through traffic to take the ring road?

No. Deerfoot is still going to be the best route if you are going across the city north-south. It's also going to be years yet before you could even propose doing that anyways, you'd need to complete at least the SE ring road south from 17th Ave/Highway 1A to 22X plus the upgrades along 22X back to Deerfoot before you'd be able to even consider it, and even then you'd be adding probably a good 15km extra to the trip.

[You Need A Thneed]

Does anyone know if there are plans to slow deerfoot down to 80 once the ring road is complete to encourage through traffic to take the ring road?

At times of day when Deerfoot is congested, people wont need a slower speed limit on Deerfoot to convince them to take the ring road, as the avearae speed along Deerfoot at those times is lower then 80km/h anyway.

At times of day when Deerfoot is not congested, why would anyone care about encouraging traffic to drive elsewhere?

The ring road doesn't really serve the same people anyway, for many people just travelling a short piece of deerfoot, going all the way out to the ring road makes no sense. The people that travel longer distances on Deerfot currently will likely switch to the Ringroad anyway.

I don't know how changing a speed limit convincs people to take a different road that is 5-10 km away.

[Full Mountain]

No. Deerfoot is still going to be the best route if you are going across the city north-south. It's also going to be years yet before you could even propose doing that anyways, you'd need to complete at least the SE ring road south from 17th Ave/Highway 1A to 22X plus the upgrades along 22X back to Deerfoot before you'd be able to even consider it, and even then you'd be adding probably a good 15km extra to the trip.

It of course would be dependent on the completion of the SE Portion (in reality the majority of the work is required to build the road from 17-22X (2 interchanges, and road bed), the twinning of 22X is a relatively minor project 30 blocks or so) that is once the government signs the contracts

Knowing deerfoot's notorious safety record, If i had the choice I would use the ring road (IMO Deerfoot shouldn't have a speed limit of more than 80)

[frinkprof]

It of course would be dependent on the completion of the SE Portion (in reality the majority of the work is required to build the road from 17-22X (2 interchanges, and road bed), the twinning of 22X is a relatively minor project 30 blocks or so) that is once the government signs the contracts
For the SE portion, are the interchanges going at 17th Avenue and Glenmore?
If this is the case, the SE portion should go pretty quickly I would think.

[You Need A Thneed]

For the SE portion, are the interchanges going at 17th Avenue and Glenmore?
If this is the case, the SE portion should go pretty quickly I would think.

Stage one plans show: (From Alberta Transportation)
Interchange at 17th
Right in/ RIght out at Peigan
Interchange at Glenmore
Interchange at 114th Ave
Interchange at 130th Ave
Interchange at HWY 22x
Interchange at 52nd Street
Interchange improvements at Deerfoot/22x - extra fly over ramps.

[frinkprof]

^Thanks. Interesting.

[Full Mountain]

Stage one plans show: (From Alberta Transportation)
Interchange at 17th
Right in/ RIght out at Peigan
Interchange at Glenmore
Interchange at 114th Ave
Interchange at 130th Ave
Interchange at HWY 22x
Interchange at 52nd Street
Interchange improvements at Deerfoot/22x - extra fly over ramps.

Yikes... thats a lot more interchanges than I would have thought were needed

[mersar]

Yep. Peigan is the only one that may not happen in stage one as it depends on the city extending Peigan from its current end at 52nd, which I don't believe is funded yet. Though with a right in, right out, that won't barely even factor into the cost of the project. Theres also one or two additional bridges that aren't interchanges, as it has to go over the CN tracks by 50th Ave.

[mersar]

Another quick mention on Global tonight about the SW ring road through the Tsuu Tina lands, supposedly the newly re-elected chief is saying that they pretty much reached an agreement with the province and that it will be signed soon.

[freeweed]

Another quick mention on Global tonight about the SW ring road through the Tsuu Tina lands, supposedly the newly re-elected chief is saying that they pretty much reached an agreement with the province and that it will be signed soon.

Yeah, supposedly the only outstanding issue is the compensation amount.

Of course, that's always been the issue anyway.

Apparently the band is going to vote soon. Maybe we won't have another 4 years of wasteful nothing.

[craner]

Yeah, supposedly the only outstanding issue is the compensation amount.

Of course, that's always been the issue anyway.

Apparently the band is going to vote soon. Maybe we won't have another 4 years of wasteful nothing.

:previous: sigh :(

[craner]

Stage one plans show: (From Alberta Transportation)
Interchange at 17th
Right in/ RIght out at Peigan
Interchange at Glenmore
Interchange at 114th Ave
Interchange at 130th Ave
Interchange at HWY 22x
Interchange at 52nd Street
Interchange improvements at Deerfoot/22x - extra fly over ramps.

:previous: So no lights from 17th to 22X then ? Sounds good for a stage 1 plan - I'm pleasantly suprised with the flyover ramps at Deerfoot/22X for stage 1.

For the record - I say leave deerfoot at 100 km/hr.:cool:

[You Need A Thneed]

For the record - I say leave deerfoot at 100 km/hr.:cool:

I just hope that they post the ring road at at least 110km/h, not 100 like Edmonton's SE ring road is posted at. No reason for it not to be 110 - they could easily post it at 120 if they wanted to.

[craner]

I just hope that they post the ring road at at least 110km/h, not 100 like Edmonton's SE ring road is posted at. No reason for it not to be 110 - they could easily post it at 120 if they wanted to.

Agreed - at least until winter.

[freeweed]

I just hope that they post the ring road at at least 110km/h, not 100 like Edmonton's SE ring road is posted at. No reason for it not to be 110 - they could easily post it at 120 if they wanted to.

Not gonna happen within a city. 100 is where it'll be.

[mwalker_mw]

Post it at 100, enforce it at 120. Everyone's happy.

Then, crack down on aggressive/wreckless driving and tailgating. Use the 20km/hr leeway as necessary to achieve this.

[hulkrogan]

I just hope that they post the ring road at at least 110km/h, not 100 like Edmonton's SE ring road is posted at. No reason for it not to be 110 - they could easily post it at 120 if they wanted to.

Pollution. Cars are way less fuel efficient at 120 than they are at 90, and that's starting to become a consideration with speed limits in urban areas. There is no way in hell the NW section of Crowchild should be 80...

[canlefty]

There is no way in hell the NW section of Crowchild should be 80...

Right...it should be 100.

[hulkrogan]

Right...it should be 100.

The brutal part is it used to be 90. Now they keep moving the 80 even further and further out. I'm not sure, it might have even been 100 shortly before that, but I can't remember for sure.

[mersar]

The brutal part is it used to be 90. Now they keep moving the 80 even further and further out. I'm not sure, it might have even been 100 shortly before that, but I can't remember for sure.

Got to take into account that the city keeps moving out as well. I can remember it used to be 90 from just west of Nosehill and then up to 100 by Rocky Ridge (this was before they twinned it, when it went back to a undivided about where Crowfoot Rise is now), but at that point Scenic Acres and Arbour Ridge would have been only just getting under construction and the only stuff further west was the handful of houses along Eamon Road and the 1 or 2 south along 101st street. The fact its 90 out all the way past Bearspaw Road is not the city's fault, rather its due to the parents of kids who attend the relatively new school in Bearspaw being concerned that traffic going at 100km/h may somehow harm the kids who all take the bus and go through a signalized intersection, fortunately the province refused to go any lower (they did put an 80 zone in on Highway 22 south of Cochrane for similar reasons, though that intersection isn't signalized)

[lubicon]

Another quick mention on Global tonight about the SW ring road through the Tsuu Tina lands, supposedly the newly re-elected chief is saying that they pretty much reached an agreement with the province and that it will be signed soon.

Good news, but with the current economic climate I wonder how soon this will get built even if there is an agreement made. The province doesn't have the cash it used to, and I don't know if a P3 is feasible anymore. I'm not sure the construction consortiums would be able to raise the money they need for a P3.

[craner]

Good news, but with the current economic climate I wonder how soon this will get built even if there is an agreement made. The province doesn't have the cash it used to, and I don't know if a P3 is feasible anymore. I'm not sure the construction consortiums would be able to raise the money they need for a P3.

:previous: good point - I didn't think about P3 consortiums having to raise cash to finance the construction.:(

[Vascilli]

Not gonna happen within a city. 100 is where it'll be.

It should be unlimited. :whip:

[Full Mountain]

It should be unlimited. :whip:

Not with Calgary drivers it shouldn't :hell:

[mersar]

Noticed that the street lights on Stoney Trail east of Shaganappi towards Beddington (but not all the way to the interchange) were on tonight, and another stretch east of Beddington up the hill towards Deerfoot were also on.

[craner]

Noticed that the street lights on Stoney Trail east of Shaganappi towards Beddington (but not all the way to the interchange) were on tonight, and another stretch east of Beddington up the hill towards Deerfoot were also on.

Whoo Hoo ! Can't wait to drive on this puppy (possibly next year) ? :shrug:

[QBee]

Do you really think that the street lights being on is a sign that they will soon open Stoney Trail east of Sarcee? From what I read on the government sights it is supposed to be open right through to Harvest Hills Blvd by late Fall this year. However, driving by, it looks like they are in "clean up and shut down mode" for the year. The amount of crews out working have dropped significantly. At Harvest Hills Blvd, they did smooth out the pavement of Stoney Trail that crosses HH Blvd (used to have abrupt bumps where the new pavement went across) but it isnt flat, just graded the asphalt a bit to make it less of a bump. Last weekend when I drove Harvest Hills Blvd to Airdrie, there were no lights on yet, and no lines for the lanes, but I know they paved the top layer of asphalt about 2-3 weeks ago.

[mersar]

I'd doubt we'll see it this year. Beddington is in a similar state to Harvest Hills in terms of the lights still being not installed. I suspect the street lights along the road were probably just hooked up and they are testing them.

[Vascilli]

Not with Calgary drivers it shouldn't :hell:

Fine, bad drivers get their car seized. Forever. :D

[mersar]

New images from NEST (http://www.stoneytrailgroup.ca/photosWinter20082009.html):

Country Hills NE:
http://www.stoneytrailgroup.ca/media/lgIMGP7356.jpg

Deerfoot interchange:
http://www.stoneytrailgroup.ca/media/lgIMGP7354.jpg

More Deerfoot:
http://www.stoneytrailgroup.ca/media/lgIMGP7341.jpg

[Bender77]

Looks like we won't see Stoney Trail go past Sarcee Trail until late summer 2009 according to the link below: :(

http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/Content/docType490/Production/stm_ch-b-u5.pdf

I don't quite get that...they are so close to finishing at least till Beddington Trail, why not just get it done?

[freeweed]

I don't quite get that...they are so close to finishing at least till Beddington Trail, why not just get it done?

Because if it didn't keep getting needlessly delayed, then someone might actually point out that the P3 is doing 3x the work in 1/3 the time.

Not that I'm bitter or anything.

[lubicon]

Late summer of 2009!!! Good lord, what the HE double hockey sticks would take them that long. They may as well just open it with the rest of Stoney all the way around to the east side of town. Maybe that's the new plan. The snail's pace this project is progressing at is beyond belief.

[YYCguys]

I have driven the newly opened section between CHB NW and Sarcee Trail and it's such a luxery to be driving on a QUIET road in a city of more than a million people (there was just 2 other vehicles besides us on it!). It is a shame that the rest of Stoney Trail won't open until Summer 09! It's crazy that it looks so close to being completed, yet it'll take another 6 months!!!

[mersar]

Was just looking at the site for the SW ring road (http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/sthwy8-gp.htm), they've posted some new files from the November open houses. One in particular shows a bit of the scope of the work that will be required to get the highway up the hill towards Bow Trail. The proposal looks to be like they will need to trench out the right of way and remove a massive amount of dirt. At the deepest part they show, pretty much right at the northern edge of Cougar Ridge, it looks like potentially the road will be 40 meters below the current ground level. Which would put it 20 meters below where they assume the bedrock in that area is. The excavated part will extend pretty much from just south of the current ramps, all the way to the Old Banff Coach Road where it will be level again. Where they would even take that amount of dirt is beyond me, that would be like excavating out several dozen pits the size of the one for the Bow (its about 2km long, and the top of the trench would be about 250m wide by my rough calculations)

[shreddog]

Where they would even take that amount of dirt is beyond me, that would be like excavating out several dozen pits the size of the one for the Bow (its about 2km long, and the top of the trench would be about 250m wide by my rough calculations)

Right next store ... I'm thinking a 40m vertical gain for COP! It worked for Mount St Louis/Moonstone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_St.Louis_Moonstone) ...

"In 1989 the Mt. St. Louis peak was again expanded with another 700,000 m³ of dirt, and a high-speed quad was added to service it, replacing the earlier triple. The next major expansion was in 1996, when another 650,000 m³ was added to Moonstone,"

[freeweed]

Holy hell, that's one massive trench. Something tells me this might take a while to build.

Also, is a 100% graded slope (45 degrees) really OK with our bedrock? Just what is the bedrock under the city, anyway? If it's similar to the crumbly limestone we see further west, I bet we'll end up seeing rock curtains on this road before long.

Edit: Um, what's this about a 2035 horizon?? They planning on using the NW construction schedule as inspiration??

Seriously, this is gonna be 30 years away?

[Vascilli]

Was just looking at the site for the SW ring road (http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/sthwy8-gp.htm), they've posted some new files from the November open houses. One in particular shows a bit of the scope of the work that will be required to get the highway up the hill towards Bow Trail. The proposal looks to be like they will need to trench out the right of way and remove a massive amount of dirt. At the deepest part they show, pretty much right at the northern edge of Cougar Ridge, it looks like potentially the road will be 40 meters below the current ground level. Which would put it 20 meters below where they assume the bedrock in that area is. The excavated part will extend pretty much from just south of the current ramps, all the way to the Old Banff Coach Road where it will be level again. Where they would even take that amount of dirt is beyond me, that would be like excavating out several dozen pits the size of the one for the Bow (its about 2km long, and the top of the trench would be about 250m wide by my rough calculations)

Wouldn't they be better off making it a tunnel? :koko:

[mersar]

I'm not too worried about the 2035 horizon, like the NE part it will likely be sped up considerably in the next few years. Though it is going to be a monster to build, I'd imagine excavating that much will probably take 2 years minimum.

[craner]

Wouldn't they be better off making it a tunnel? :koko:

Yeah - makes you wonder.

Hope it's completed well before 2035.

[lubicon]

Holy hell, that's one massive trench. Something tells me this might take a while to build.

Also, is a 100% graded slope (45 degrees) really OK with our bedrock? Just what is the bedrock under the city, anyway? If it's similar to the crumbly limestone we see further west, I bet we'll end up seeing rock curtains on this road before long.

Edit: Um, what's this about a 2035 horizon?? They planning on using the NW construction schedule as inspiration??

Seriously, this is gonna be 30 years away?

The bedrock under Calgary is pretty much all sandstone and crumbly shales. This is what you see in the road cuts west of Calgary. Limestone doesn't appear at ground level until you are in the mountains near Canmore, and it is generally much more uniform in composition and stable.

And yes, if the NW portion is any indication this will take forever to build.:hell:

[sauril]

According to those maps, there goes the mountain biking at COP. Too bad, it's a lot of fun.

[Full Mountain]

According to those maps, there goes the mountain biking at COP. Too bad, it's a lot of fun.

I don't see it having any effect on biking at COP...it seems to cut by the west trees just barely..I highly doubt that COP sold any of there land back to government for a road

[mersar]

I don't think it will affect COP either, worst case it may be remotely possible that COP had been using the a small part of the land but the province has owned the right of way through there for decades.

[bigcanuck]

Re: TCH to Bow Trail section. There's been excavation going on for several years on the top of the hill - Burnco has been operating within the TUC. There's still a lot of excavation to go on the actual upslope but plenty has already been done.

[You Need A Thneed]

The dirt taken out of that trench will go to fill up places along the route where the existing ground is too low, i.e. Between 16th Ave and halfway up the hill.

When they design projects like this that move huge quantities of dirt, they design them to be very close to net zero material added or removed, or else, the costs get astronomical.

It will be similar to where Deerfoot goes over the Bow river on the new extension, where the top of the hill is trenched, and the bottom of the hill is filled in.

They can't tunnel, because then they wouldn't have any material to do the fill required at the bottom of the hill.

[craner]

The dirt taken out of that trench will go to fill up places along the route where the existing ground is too low, i.e. Between 16th Ave and halfway up the hill.

When they design projects like this that move huge quantities of dirt, they design them to be very close to net zero material added or removed, or else, the costs get astronomical.

It will be similar to where Deerfoot goes over the Bow river on the new extension, where the top of the hill is trenched, and the bottom of the hill is filled in.

They can't tunnel, because then they wouldn't have any material to do the fill required at the bottom of the hill.

:previous: Hey - thanks for the education.:tup:
(I like the "Stampeder" footnote)

[mersar]

The dirt taken out of that trench will go to fill up places along the route where the existing ground is too low, i.e. Between 16th Ave and halfway up the hill.

When they design projects like this that move huge quantities of dirt, they design them to be very close to net zero material added or removed, or else, the costs get astronomical.

It will be similar to where Deerfoot goes over the Bow river on the new extension, where the top of the hill is trenched, and the bottom of the hill is filled in.

They can't tunnel, because then they wouldn't have any material to do the fill required at the bottom of the hill.

That may be the case for most projects, this one however it looks to be that by half way up the hill the diagram shows they are already 20m below the ground level, and the cut line shows pretty much all the way to the bottom of the hill. There will be some material needed for things such as the approaches to the other bridges that they will need to build, but I'd suspect there will be quite a bit excess on that part of the project (its possible they may choose to do some leveling further south towards #8 which would use some of the material as well)

[lubicon]

Construction disrupts nighttime traffic on 16 Avenue NE in CalgaryCalgary... Motorists can expect major nighttime delays on 16 Avenue NE in Calgary to accommodate construction activities.

All westbound 16 Avenue NE lanes will be closed between 68 Street NE and 100 Street NE from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. nightly from Dec. 11 through Dec. 14, weather permitting. Traffic will be detoured to McKnight Boulevard NE.

All eastbound 16 Avenue NE lanes will be closed between 68 Street NE and 84 Street NE from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. nightly from Dec. 15 through Dec. 18, weather permitting. Traffic will be detoured to 17 Avenue SE.

The above closures accommodate girder erection at the Stoney Trail/16 Avenue NE interchange site.

Motorists should use caution in the area and obey all signs, message boards, and flag people. Motorists are reminded that fines for speeding are doubled through construction zones when workers are present.

Visit www.stoneytrailgroup.ca for more information about the Stoney Trail NE ring road project.

[You Need A Thneed]

^ I've thought it is somewhat peculiar that the 16th ave/ NE ring road interchange has one flyover ramp made with concrete girders, and one made from steel girders.

The Deerfoot/Stoney interchange is similar to that though too.

It's the steel girders that will be going up this week.

[mersar]

Was just doing some updates on Wikipedia, and spotted this:

December 10, 2008

Northeast Stoney Trail Ring Road Construction Moving Along Well

Construction is moving along well and we continue to remain on schedule to open in late fall 2009. The weather has been unusually mild the last few months and that has allowed us to continue construction for several weeks longer than normal. In general, Stoney Trail Constructors cannot erect girders if the winds are 35km/hr or greater, and cannot pour decks if the weather is colder than 5˚C or raining.

Stoney Trail Constructors has finished paving asphalt on all road structures from Deerfoot Trail NE to the McKnight Boulevard NE bridge and 2.5 kilometres south of 16th Avenue. On the overall project, we have completed 60% of the paving.

In terms of bridges, Stoney Trail Constructors is 90% complete on the substructure work (piers and abutments), and 50% complete on superstructure (bridge decks). We are now focusing our resources on placing concrete in as many bridge decks as possible before the winter. All of the foundation work for the bridges has been completed; however, we will continue to pour walls and other miscellaneous structures throughout the winter.

In terms of the outlook for 2009 construction, the overpasses at Country Hills Boulevard NE and Metis Boulevard NE will be opened in advance of the main freeway. The rest of the project is on track to open next fall.

We know that during the construction phase, there are inconveniences to motorists and residents. We try to be as respectful as possible and to respond to public inquiries as best we can. There will be noise and dust at the construction site; however, we try and minimize the effects on local residents as much as possible. We hope that the completion of the ring road and the resulting alleviation of traffic congestion in northeast Calgary will be a big benefit to all when we have completed the Northeast Stoney Trail in the fall of 2009.

For more information on the Northeast Stoney Trail ring road project, please visit www.stoneytrailgroup.ca (http://www.stoneytrailgroup.ca/) or call 1‑800‑693‑2173.
and this:

Calgary... Motorists are advised that scheduled nighttime lane closures on 16 Avenue NE in Calgary have been postponed until 2009.

The closures were needed for bridge girder erection at the Stoney Trail/16 Avenue NE interchange site, but that work has been postponed until at least next month due to recent weather changes. The closures were scheduled for Dec. 11-18 in both the westbound and eastbound lanes between 68 Street NE and 100 Street NE.


I also noted that the province has changed just about every reference that called the NE part of the ringroad anything but Stoney Trail to be Stoney Trail. Not that any of us though they'd actually call it anything different to start with.

[mersar]

Went past the Scenic Acres interchange tonight, it looks like they may have poured the abutments for the bridge, both sides of the trench looked to have forms in that were tarped over. And further north they've got the median fenced off were the pedestrian bridge from Royal Oak to Arbour Lake will be, in addition to the cuts they made into the hill earlier in the fall.

[freeweed]

And further north they've got the median fenced off were the pedestrian bridge from Royal Oak to Arbour Lake will be, in addition to the cuts they made into the hill earlier in the fall.

Damn, now I'm slapping my head. At first I couldn't figure out what the hell that was, and thought it was snow fencing! :haha:

[craner]

So is the plan now to open the ring road from Sarcee in the NW to 17th Ave SE in the fall of '09 in one big chunk (or am I being overly optimistic) ?
I still have to test drive the newly opened portion from CHB to Sarcee, the weather hasn't exactly been condusive to pleasure drives lately.
:cheers:

[mersar]

It may be done as one chunk, they've described the portion from Sarcee to 15th Street opening in late summer, and from what I've seen the P3 is on target to be done in the fall, so who knows. If it isn't, what I wouldn't be surprised to see is opening it to Beddington in August, then the rest probably in late September. I can't see them opening parts of the Deerfoot interchange but not others, even considering how that interchange is being constructed.

[korzym]

16th ave NE interchange:

they've erected a major bridge deck this week. The skyline looking eastwards as you drive down 16th is now dominated by this massive structure.

[craner]

16th ave NE interchange:

they've erected a major bridge deck this week. The skyline looking eastwards as you drive down 16th is now dominated by this massive structure.

Sounds Cool!:cool:

[Western Spaghetti]

16th ave NE interchange:

they've erected a major bridge deck this week. The skyline looking eastwards as you drive down 16th is now dominated by this massive structure.

I saw that yesterday coming into the city. Looks pretty imposing.

[mersar]

Looks like the forms are off and they've untarped the 4 abutments at the Scenic Acres interchange, which is definitely it will moving at a pretty good pace (though if they are to have it open by September as they announced it will be, they need to be)

[korzym]

The overpass deck has been fully installed at 16th NE, the main stoney trail deck is still not installed though. The one thats installed is the most eastern deck thats planned. Theres a bunch of signs warning of this section being closed at night until the 20th so their not done yet

On a side note:
68th and 16th might get an overpass as part of the federal economic stimulus
-as well as 19th ave prior to heading west towards deerfoot. I wonder if this will somewhat congest the 'new' 16th ave, because you have the two buffer intersections in 19th st and deerfoot that spread out traffic

-and also the intersection at canada olympic park, bowfort road, will get an overpass as part of the regular municipal budget, someone inquired about it in this thread a while back. I reckon it shall be built around 2011

-AAND crowchild trail, from 19th st south to 24th ave nw has around $20M allocated to it in the municipal budget for 2013...so will this be another GE5?

[craner]

-AAND crowchild trail, from 19th st south to 24th ave nw has around $20M allocated to it in the municipal budget for 2013...so will this be another GE5?

:previous: Not quite sure what you mean by this? The stretch between 24th Ave. south to the river perhaps ?

[korzym]

:previous: Not quite sure what you mean by this? The stretch between 24th Ave. south to the river perhaps ?

between 24th ave and 19th ave, look at a map

[Stang]

between 24th ave and 19th ave, look at a map

Looked at a map (plus you said "19 st" originally) and I'm not sure what you're saying either.

So you are likely referring to 24th Ave N near the U of C. But 19 street nor 19 avenue N or S intersect with Crowchild.

Now that I have looked at a map, care to provide a little more info because craner and I must be a little thick otherwise.

[Skeletor]

I corrected it for him since his snarly attitued was clearly blurring his vision.

The overpass deck has been fully installed at 16th NE, the main stoney trail deck is still not installed though. The one thats installed is the most eastern deck thats planned. Theres a bunch of signs warning of this section being closed at night until the 20th so their not done yet

On a side note:
68th and 16th might get an overpass as part of the federal economic stimulus
-as well as 19th St. NE prior to heading west towards deerfoot. I wonder if this will somewhat congest the 'new' 16th ave, because you have the two buffer intersections in 19th st and deerfoot that spread out traffic

-and also the intersection at canada olympic park, bowfort road, will get an overpass as part of the regular municipal budget, someone inquired about it in this thread a while back. I reckon it shall be built around 2011

-AAND crowchild trail, from 19th Ave. south to 24th ave nw has around $20M allocated to it in the municipal budget for 2013...so will this be another GE5?

I was wondering the same thing about 16th Ave., but I think a good deal of the traffic that goes past 19th St. ends up turning on Deerfoot. There always seems to be a lot less cars going up the hill than there was going down.

As for Crowchild, yes, I think the plan is to build and interchange at Kensington Rd. and an overpass at 5th Ave. NW., as well as an interchange at 24th Ave. NW. I'm not sure what improvements they plan for 23rd Ave. NW, the 2 lane bridge over University Dr., the bridge over the river, or the Bow. Tr. interchange.. I really wish they would post more of this stuff on their website... (Anybody at the city reading this?? :))

[mersar]

The Crowchild/Bow Trail interchange will be seeing some work done to it as part of the West LRT, though not too much that directly affects Crowchild itself beyond possibly needing to rework how you get from 10th Ave to Crowchild NB. Bow Trail will be realigned beneath the bridge with lanes being moved to where the sloped abutments are now to give room in the middle for the LRT. The TOD work for the NW I believe included a limited access bridge of some form to replace the intersection at 23rd Ave (It's in the documents that were released on it if you want to go look it up). And I've heard talk in the past about a potential rebuild of the entire Crowchild/16th Avenue/University drive connection into a single unified interchange that would remove the bridge at Crowchild/University Drive, but nothing official has been published about it to my knowledge.

[Beltliner]

The Crowchild/Bow Trail interchange will be seeing some work done to it as part of the West LRT, though not too much that directly affects Crowchild itself beyond possibly needing to rework how you get from 10th Ave to Crowchild NB. Bow Trail will be realigned beneath the bridge with lanes being moved to where the sloped abutments are now to give room in the middle for the LRT. The TOD work for the NW I believe included a limited access bridge of some form to replace the intersection at 23rd Ave (It's in the documents that were released on it if you want to go look it up). And I've heard talk in the past about a potential rebuild of the entire Crowchild/16th Avenue/University drive connection into a single unified interchange that would remove the bridge at Crowchild/University Drive, but nothing official has been published about it to my knowledge.

The CALTS-53 take on Crowchild x Transcanada goes all the way back to 1978. What was mooted in that document was:

Conversion of the northbound left-exit from Crowchild x University Drive to a right exit;
Conversion of the Transcanada x University Drive exit to a Parclo AB on the west side of the right of way, and
Construction of diamond interchanges at Crowchild x Transcanada and Crowchild x 24 Avenue, with frontage roads on either side of Crowchild connecting the two interchanges together.


Of course, this strategy wouldn't work too well with the Banff Trail TOD plan, and the strategy would also knock out any direct connection between McMahon Stadium and Banff Trail Station along 23 Avenue. Now if you really wanted to get crazy about rebuilding Crowchild between Transcanada and 24 Avenue, consider if you will the following possibilities:

Keep the northbound left-exit from Crowchild x University Drive (and yes, we all know left-exits are so 1960, but most of us are used to it by now);
Run northbound right-exits in immediate succession from Crowchild x Transcanada, Crowchild x 23 Avenue, and Crowchild x 24 Avenue;
Run northbound right-enters in immediate succession from Crowchild x Transcanada, Crowchild x 23 Avenue, and Crowchild x 24 Avenue;
Run southbound right-exits in immediate succession from Crowchild x 24 Avenue, Crowchild x 23 Avenue, and Crowchild x Transcanada;
Run southbound right-enters in immediate succession from Crowchild x 24 Avenue, Crowchild x 23 Avenue, and Crowchild x Transcanada;
Make Crowchild x 23 Avenue a roundabout interchange, with frontage tie-ins to mini-roundabouts at Nick's and the Best Western;

and (drumroll please, folks):

Bury the whole stinking mess as much as is safely possible.

Considering the engineering and prices involved in burying the Gardiner or the Gowanus, this project should be a walk in the park! ;)

[Skeletor]

:previous: I think that many entrances and exits will cause way too many weaving problems on Crowchild, unless you want them to build 4 basketweave bridges. I came up with a few plans in my head, but I'm not sure how they would tie in with the Banff Tr. TOD. Either way, I think only 2 of the 3 roads will be able to have direct access to Crowchild, and some sort of service road will be needed to connect one of those 2 with the 3rd. Even then, I still think at least one or two basketweave bridges will be needed. Those intersections are just too close together for todays design standards, IMO.

[korzym]

I corrected it for him since his snarly attitued was clearly blurring his vision.



I was wondering the same thing about 16th Ave., but I think a good deal of the traffic that goes past 19th St. ends up turning on Deerfoot. There always seems to be a lot less cars going up the hill than there was going down.

As for Crowchild, yes, I think the plan is to build and interchange at Kensington Rd. and an overpass at 5th Ave. NW., as well as an interchange at 24th Ave. NW. I'm not sure what improvements they plan for 23rd Ave. NW, the 2 lane bridge over University Dr., the bridge over the river, or the Bow. Tr. interchange..


Snarly attitude? I clarified it, but after the fact your clarifying shit that I cleared up. The only person's "vision" you should be worrying about is your own as you can't even follow the conversation. I guess saying "look at a map" is offensive hey? point it out where I was snarly. Leave your smart aleck comments for some other place

And I don't see your lazy ass looking for this info, its listed in the city budget as crowchild 24th ave to 19th ave sw, and you say you wish they put this info on the city's website. so get off my damn back and actually search for the info. There's something wrong with your head to call me snarly after I freely put out obscure info for people that don't know about it

[Stang]

I corrected it for him since his snarly attitued was clearly blurring his vision.

Thank you. ;)