[LMich]

This concept and location (i.e "twinning" the Ambassador Bridge) isn't very popular, but, it's the only one that doesn't get rid of any more housing. What this proposal does do, though, is cut off Corktown (for good) from the river in at least two of the three conceived locations for the additional plaza/customs space.

See this link for all of the alternatives considered: http://www.partnershipborderstudy.com/index.asp

BTW, please take note that this approval is only the approval from the State of Michigan. The developer must still received approval at the municipal level (City of Detroit and City of Windsor), and at the federal levels of both the United States in Canada, so he's hardly cleared much of anything, but it's surprising he got approval from the State of Michigan considering how vocal citizens have been in Detroit against this particular plan:

http://www.todaystrucking.com/images/usr_160307125420_Ambassbrdge.jpg
According to the Windsor Star, the approved permit
for a new span did not measure air quality impacts

Michigan gives thumbs up to twin Ambassador span: report

03/16/2007

Today's Trucking Online

DETROIT-- Ambassador Bridge officials say they've scaled another hurdle in their plans to twin the current bridge with another six-lane span across the Detroit River.

The Windsor Star reports that the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality (MDEQ) has issued a permit to the private bridge company which allows it to build a crossing until the end of 2008.

According to the newspaper, owner Matty Moroun can apply for extensions over the next five years and requires no other state approvals.

However, it's unlikely the MDEQ permit allows the bridge company to begin sticking shovels in the ground immediately as Moroun reportedly still needs federal and municipal approvals before construction can begin.

Detroit city planners have been critical of the Ambassador's twin span "enhancement project." A municipal report presented to city Councillors last fall arguably led to two resolutions against the bridge company. Detroit International Bridge Co. President Dan Stamper later complained the report was "misleading" and "inaccurate."

The Star story reports that a coalition of residents and business groups around the bridge entrance in Detroit will launch an appeal of the MDEQ permit. Meanwhile, on the other side of the border, Transport Canada officials say they are still conducting their own environmental assessment, which must be completed before construction can proceed.

Also according to the Star, the MDEQ permit was not contingent on residents' concerns or air quality testing. The application was approved after reviewing only the impact on the waterways or shoreline.

TodaysTrucking.com first obtained the bridge's original application to MDEQ last summer. The application stated the proposed structure would be a 102.5 ft-wide, 6,200 ft-long cable stayed toll bridge just west of the 77 year-old Ambassador.

The application also stated "the existing Ambassador Bridge will be closed for evaluation and repair, if found economically viable for future use."

Critics of the bridge company have frequently suggested the twin span is a tactic to undermine plans to build a separate bridge a few kilometers southwest of the Ambassador.

A binational government committee decided against the Ambassador's twinning plan in favor of an entirely new bridge downriver. It hopes to finalize plans and complete construction by 2013.

Ironically, while the MDEQ has greenlighted the Ambassador's project, Michigan transportation officials continue discussions with business people in the Delray neighborhood -- where the new bridge is being proposed -- about building and relocation timeframes.

-- with files from the Windsor Star

http://www.todaystrucking.com/news.cfm?intDocID=17626

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Windsor Star seems to be down, at the moment. I'll try and get their article on this when it's back up.

BTW, the modern-styled bridge is proposed to be 2,250-feet long between the two concrete piers.

[Exodus]

I suppose another bridge was needed, but I wish they wouldn't crowd the original bridge. Why not put it on the east side ?

[LMich]

That would be much, much worse. The Eastside riverfront is far more developed and residential, and on both sides, at that. I say putting it up on in a relatively empty industrial riverfront is far better than screwing over yet another neighborhood(s). The particular Eastside plan that was studied was probably the worst. They were talking about skipping across the river using Belle Isle, which would have created two bridges.

Looking at the website, if I'm not mistaken, twinning the Ambassador won't take out anymore of Mexicantown, but it would put a whole lot more truck traffic through the neighborhood, and would take some big chunks out of the area east of 75, south of Michigan, and west of the Lodge.

I think the best option would have been taking this through Delray or somewhere Downriver.

[Exodus]

Down river was my second choice, and obviously makes the best sense. Heres hoping this works out.

[illmatic774]

So does this pretty much mean bye bye, Delray?

[LMich]

An animation of the proposed cable-stayed bridge next to the Ambassador:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrVM_ReGCSE

Interesting. I didn't imagine it would dwarf the Ambassador quite like it does.

Illmatic,

This is a proposal moving forward to twin the Ambassador Bridge, quite a distance from Delray.

[Exodus]

I wish I hadn't watched that:yuck: The bridge is nice looking, but god it is too close to the Ambassador, and check out the spaghetti junction.

[CGII]

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4511/holydamnqn9.jpg

Looks like Detroit vomited pasta everywhere.

[Exodus]

vomit is right:yuck:

[illmatic774]

yeah my bad, I didn't take the time to read much past the thread title.

[LMich]

You guys should see the freeway interchanges for the other routes considered through Southwest Detroit. They make this junction look dense/compact. All of the other proposals would require the razing of blocks of housing.

[skyfan]

True, but Delray is not a up and coming neighborhood.

[neilson]

True, but Delray is not a up and coming neighborhood.
So MDOT's signed off on it. I noticed that while the Cities of Detroit, Windsor, and the Feds for the USA and Canada have to sign off on it, where does Ontario MTO play into all this?

[Jasoncw]

I think Canada wants it more south so that it's closer to their freeway, since they don't really like where the Ambassador bridge is anyway, and I can imagine a lot of traffic problems on the Canadian side. It also wouldn't be very far from one of our own freeways. It would require more interchanges, but I think they could do it without messing things up too much.

All we can do is hope that Canada will block it. :)

[neilson]

I think Canada wants it more south so that it's closer to their freeway, since they don't really like where the Ambassador bridge is anyway, and I can imagine a lot of traffic problems on the Canadian side. It also wouldn't be very far from one of our own freeways. It would require more interchanges, but I think they could do it without messing things up too much.

All we can do is hope that Canada will block it. :)
The 401 NEEDS a direct connection to I-75. Windsor complains that it gets no respect from Queen's Park(Where the Ontario Legislature is located in Toronto) because Windsor is always an NDP stronghold and so the Liberal or Conservative Premiers only give the area lip service.

It helps that there's an election this year in Ontario and you can bet that both Dalton McGuinty(or LIAR LIAR as I call him) and John Tory(of the Tories, aptly) will be making pledges and promises that I believe will help Southwestern Ontario in addition to the usual strongholds of Ottawa, the 905 region, and Toronto.

Hopefully we Americans will receive some of the rewards from the 2007 Ontario Provincial Election in the form of a direct connection between I-75 in Michigan and the 401 in Ontario.

[LMich]

True, but Delray is not a up and coming neighborhood.

True, but why screw another neighborhood (healthy or not) when you can use a lot the exisiting transit infastructure (i.e. existing plazas, freeway interchanges...) without having to take out any residential areas?

I'm not sure Moroun's plan is going to get past Canadian officials. They seem to be against all proposals save for the Downriver plan. At least, that's the feeling I'm getting. If that's the case, Matty shouldn't bother with trying to push this forward.

BTW, I was originally under the impression that a twinning of the Ambassador would cut across, or take out huge chunks of Mexicantown. Looking closely at the plan, that doesn't appear to be the case.

However, increases in truck traffic are a very legitimate concern for that neighborhood.

EDIT:

I've found out that the Partnership Border Study Group, which is the bi-national/bi-local group studying all options for the New Detroit River Crossing, found the twinning of the Ambassador to be impractical back in 2005 because of the communities objections on the Canadian side of the planned crossing.

http://www.partnershipborderstudy.com/pdf/051114_JointNewsRelease.pdf

So, if you don't like this plan, this is good news, because it looks like Matty is going to hit a brick wall rather soon when it goes back to Windsor to ask for their blessing. I wonder how many officials he's going to try to bribe to ram this through? lol He seems like that kind of guy.

Lastly, here is the area that the area that the study group is still looking at:

http://www.partnershipborderstudy.com/pdf/051114_ContinuedAnalysesMap.pdf

[Exodus]

According to that map, it looks like that plan would wipe out what littles left of W. Jefferson in Delray, and what about Ft. Wayne ?

[LMich]

BTW, here's Moroun's plan for the twinning of the Ambassador:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/152/427147752_f62fb0191c_o.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/156/427147742_f43fdba467_o.jpg

[alexjon]

I love it.

[Cleveland Brown]

Oh Lord, just wait until the Detroit City Council tries to name the new bridge after their cronies.

Here's a top ten list

Coleman Muthfuckin' Young Bridge
Conyers-Watson Bridge of Hot Air
Detroit Black Oppressed Peoples Bridge (introducted by JoAnn Watson)
Oakland County Taxpayers (introduced by LBP)
Michigan - 51st State Bridge
Baghdad-Hanoi Bridge (introduced by the Right)
Peace Bridge ABTW We Really HATE GWB Bridge (from the left)
Jobs Bridge - Outta Michigan
You Husband's a Whore, Your Teens a Drunk, and Your Grandparents have a Gambling Problem Bridge
SouthPark Bridge (Invade Canada)
Ambassador Two / Deux
Kwame's Bridge

[Detroit5000]

^ How about Rosa Parks Memorial Bridge

[Exodus]

Or Cadillac Bridge, named after the citys founder ? Or International Bridge ? It's simple and to the point.

[neilson]

Oh Lord, just wait until the Detroit City Council tries to name the new bridge after their cronies.

Here's a top ten list

Coleman Muthfuckin' Young Bridge
Conyers-Watson Bridge of Hot Air
Detroit Black Oppressed Peoples Bridge (introducted by JoAnn Watson)
Oakland County Taxpayers (introduced by LBP)
Michigan - 51st State Bridge
Baghdad-Hanoi Bridge (introduced by the Right)
Peace Bridge ABTW We Really HATE GWB Bridge (from the left)
Jobs Bridge - Outta Michigan
You Husband's a Whore, Your Teens a Drunk, and Your Grandparents have a Gambling Problem Bridge
SouthPark Bridge (Invade Canada)
Ambassador Two / Deux
Kwame's Bridge

Eh just name it the Paul Martin Bridge and call it a day. Granted if you did that, you'd find ppl making jokes like:

How come the center line markings are way over on the left hand side?

Or, hey it just ends without going all the way to town!

[LMich]

There are a few "International Bridge"'s, already. But, we're getting far ahead of ourselves. lol

[Blitz]

The 401 NEEDS a direct connection to I-75. Windsor complains that it gets no respect from Queen's Park(Where the Ontario Legislature is located in Toronto) because Windsor is always an NDP stronghold and so the Liberal or Conservative Premiers only give the area lip service.

It helps that there's an election this year in Ontario and you can bet that both Dalton McGuinty(or LIAR LIAR as I call him) and John Tory(of the Tories, aptly) will be making pledges and promises that I believe will help Southwestern Ontario in addition to the usual strongholds of Ottawa, the 905 region, and Toronto.

Hopefully we Americans will receive some of the rewards from the 2007 Ontario Provincial Election in the form of a direct connection between I-75 in Michigan and the 401 in Ontario.


Windsor supports the downriver plan since it would get traffic off Huron Church Road and wouldn't disrupt the Sandwich neighbourhood (this is actually the oldest neighbourhood in all of Ontario).

We do have Liberal representation at the provincial level but they've been mute on this issue which is really puzzling and kind of suspicious.

We don't have a voice at the federal level because of Windsor's stupid obsession with the New Democratic Party. Given that we'll never elect a Conservative politician, our best hope to be heard is for the current minority government to fail and for the Liberals get back in power.

[Cleveland Brown]

Eh just name it the Paul Martin Bridge and call it a day. Granted if you did that, you'd find ppl making jokes like:

How come the center line markings are way over on the left hand side?

Or, hey it just ends without going all the way to town!

Who cares about some damn Canucks? The Detroit City Council unilaterially renames international boundary crossing (see the John Conyers Tunnel, FKA the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel).

[Cleveland Brown]

There are a few "International Bridge"'s, already. But, we're getting far ahead of ourselves. lol

You think too rationally. Obviously you've been out of the city too long! Symbolism first, and substance later, if ever rules the northen side of the Detroit River ;) .

Now, we just have to worry about sham MBE programs on building the new bridge so legitimate contractors with minority fronts can funnel cash back to corrupt council members... and perhaps the mayor.

[neilson]

Who cares about some damn Canucks? The Detroit City Council unilaterially renames international boundary crossing (see the John Conyers Tunnel, FKA the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel).
It's a joke, something that the Detroit City Gov't would be too stupid to understand(nevermind the fact that Paul Martin Jr. was born in Windsor).

[LMich]

He was joking, too. lol

[the pope]

Oh Lord, just wait until the Detroit City Council tries to name the new bridge after their cronies.

Here's a top ten list

Coleman Muthfuckin' Young Bridge
Conyers-Watson Bridge of Hot Air
Detroit Black Oppressed Peoples Bridge (introducted by JoAnn Watson)
Oakland County Taxpayers (introduced by LBP)
Michigan - 51st State Bridge
Baghdad-Hanoi Bridge (introduced by the Right)
Peace Bridge ABTW We Really HATE GWB Bridge (from the left)
Jobs Bridge - Outta Michigan
You Husband's a Whore, Your Teens a Drunk, and Your Grandparents have a Gambling Problem Bridge
SouthPark Bridge (Invade Canada)
Ambassador Two / Deux
Kwame's Bridge


Minor edit for number one, it should be "Coleman 'Aloha Motherfuckers' Bridge"

[hudkina]

There's no way a bridge will be built south of the Rouge River. The Detroit river is over a mile wide there and the further down you go it gets even wider (over 4 miles wide by the time it reaches Lake Erie)

Besides the "twinning" of the Ambassador, the only other plausible solution is a bridge in Delray.

[LMich]

Awkward...

Matty is railroading this plan through. We'll see where he hits a roadblock.

Ambassador Bridge owner seeks state's OK for bonds to build another span to Canada

March 27, 2007

Andy Henion / The Detroit News

The race to build another bridge from Detroit to Winsor has taken an odd twist.

Ambassador Bridge owner Manuel "Matty" Moroun has applied for $1 billion in U.S. government-backed bonds to pay for a twin span -- and the agency that will help decide his fate is his chief competitor.

The Michigan Department of Transportation will recommend whether Moroun's Detroit International Bridge Co. will get the tax-exempt bonds, said MDOT spokesman Bill Shreck.

MDOT is pursuing its own plan to build a bridge to Windsor, working in conjunction with the Federal Highway Administration and provincial and federal authorities from Canada.

Shreck said it isn't a conflict of interest for MDOT to make a recommendation on Moroun's bond request.

"It's not in our interests to play one thing off the other," he said. "We just need to look at the facts and make a recommendation."

Shreck didn't know when the recommendation will be made.

The entity that will rule on the request is the eleven-member Michigan Strategic Fund Board, which is chaired by the president and CEO of the Michigan Economic Development Corp., Jim Epolito.

Other members of the Strategic Fund Board include George Jackson Jr., president and CEO of the Detroit Economic Growth Corp.; Linda Ewing, research director for the United Auto Workers; and Richard Rassel Jr., director of global client relations for the Butzel Long law firm.

Nine of the members are appointed by the governor, one is chosen by the state Senate majority leader and one is selected by the state House speaker, Shreck said.

You can reach Andy Henion at (313) 222-2610 or ahenion@detnews.com.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070327/UPDATE/703270455/1003

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wonder who's going to be the other to the finish line?

Sites for new bridge to Canada narrowed

March 26, 2007

By MARISOL BELLO
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER

The Michigan Department of Transportation has narrowed its choices for a second bridge from Detroit to Canada and is conducting studies to see which is the best option.

MDOT is looking at sites near Zug Island and Fort Wayne and is drilling in those areas to make sure the foundation is solid bedrock, a senior MDOT manager on the project told the Detroit City Council today.

The manager, Mohammed Alghurabi, updated the council on the work being conducted by the Detroit River International Crossing Study, telling members that it hopes to complete a draft impact study by January that would release the data on each site and the pros and cons of each. Public hearings would follow to determine the best site.

The project is still a long way from building a second bridge.

“We’re not in the process yet of seeking approvals,” Alghurabi said. “We’ve got a lot more homework.”

Separately, the owner of the Ambassador Bridge is working to build a second span next to the existing one. The bridge won the first of several required approvals when the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality approved two permits for the new bridge, one for storm sewer upgrades, the other for the bridge crossing.

http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070326/NEWS05/70326032

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Hayward]

It's not the bridges I fear so much, but the toll plazas that will require a square mile or something...

[LMich]

It doesn't matter where this goes, it's going to inconvenience someone; the trick is inconveniencing as few people as possible.

Yeah, the plazas are the monster. The Ambassador twinning plan is the only one that doesn't take out any additional homes, but, as discussed, it has some serious issues of its own.

[Hayward]

I won't mention the type of bridge that starts with a "C"

[Trumbull]

What ever happened to the idea of turning the rail tunnel into a truck tunnel?

[LMich]

I'm not sure, but anyone wanting any information on it can take a look at this site:

http://www.thejobstunnel.com/

http://www.thejobstunnel.com/images/Jobs%20Tunnel%20Art.jpg

I've yet to look at it myself, so there may be some updates on it.

Hayward,

I can pretty much assure you any bridge, regardless of whether Manny is involved, or not, will be a cable-stayed. If you're hoping for anothere Golden Gate, you're a few decades too late. lol

[Blitz]

Governments on the Canadian side don't support that tunnel because it cuts through densely populated neighbourhoods.

[LMich]

I haven't been able to discern Canada's position. They seem to be in opposition of just about every plan that has been presented. Where are they hoping for the next crossing?

[neilson]

I haven't been able to discern Canada's position. They seem to be in opposition of just about every plan that has been presented. Where are they hoping for the next crossing?
It's not so much that they're against every plan as much as they're looking for any reason to delay this project and snub Windsor once again. It's what Windsor gets for not supporting the Liberals or Conservatives at the Provincial and Federal Level. I'm just being honest, it's a game of politics there and the underlying issue is that once Windsor residents stop electing NDP MPPs and MPs that have little to no influence in their little corner of Ontario and smaller but vital corner of Canada, then we'll see things move fast on the Canadian side. Windsor residents, you've got to stop listening to Howard Hampton and Jack Layton. They're pro-Union but you'll have no influence in Queen's Park or Parliament Hill.

[LMich]

That really only explains the national governments, delay, though. I've gotten the impression that the local government is also slowing down the process. They don't wanting the twinning of the Ambassador, they don't want the bridge a bit further downriver connecting to E.C. Row...or, is this just the NIMBY's and not the city government?

Well, the international study group has narrowed this down, already, to a relatively small stretch of riverfront in Detroit, so, something's going to give.

[neilson]

That really only explains the national governments, delay, though. I've gotten the impression that the local government is also slowing down the process. They don't wanting the twinning of the Ambassador, they don't want the bridge a bit further downriver connecting to E.C. Row...or, is this just the NIMBY's and not the city government?

Well, the international study group has narrowed this down, already, to a relatively small stretch of riverfront in Detroit, so, something's going to give.
I did say Provincial too. There's a reason Windsor only got lip service during the Mike Harris years and even today with Liar McGuinty. There's just no love for the NDP at the Provincial Level in Ontario because of how they ran the province in the early '90s(cough*Bob Rae*cough). Windsor's just too pro-Union for its own good and in addition to NDP leaders I also blame CAW leader Buzz Hargrove.

[LMich]

Individual photos of the proposed, privately-owned crossing:

http://cmsimg.detnews.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=C3&Date=20070331&Category=METRO&ArtNo=703310351&Ref=V2Q=100&MaxW=500

http://cmsimg.detnews.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=C3&Date=20070331&Category=METRO&ArtNo=703310351&Ref=H5&Profile=1003&MaxW=1500&Q=100&title=1

http://cmsimg.detnews.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=C3&Date=20070331&Category=METRO&ArtNo=703310351&Ref=H3&Profile=1003&MaxW=1500&Q=100&title=1

It's really rather plain.

The publicly-owned bridge proposal hasn't yet gotten to the design phase. It appears that both of these plans are racing against one another. If the private company gets the approval, first, the public will back off on their proposal:

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070331/METRO/703310351

[Exodus]

I can pretty much assure you any bridge, regardless of whether Manny is involved, or not, will be a cable-stayed. If you're hoping for anothere Golden Gate, you're a few decades too late. lolI have to agree with you on that one. And that bridge doesn't look bad at all imo.

[CGII]

http://www.thejobstunnel.com/images/Jobs%20Tunnel%20Art.jpg

Oh my god that is the shittiest rendering ever. Whoever hires newspaper editorial illustrators to design their renderings probably shouldn't be taken seriously.

[hudkina]

The twinning could be rather interesting. My only problem is that it'll be privately owned by Moroun.

It does remind me of the Brooklyn and Manhattan bridges.
http://www.skypic.com/newyork/10-7652.jpg

Granted, they'll be even closer than those are.

[Blitz]

LMich, the plan with the most support on this side of the border is a bridge crossing somewhere in the Zug Island area. However, there is some opposition to this as well.

What's happening now is the upper levels of goverment seem to be leaning toward turning Huron Church Road into some sort of super highway (which has Windsor city government and Windsor residents in an uproar) and the highway would lead to either a twinned Ambassador or a Zug area bridge.

I seriously wouldn't care if the extreme southwest of Ontario broke away and formed its province. That's how much we're screwed over.



Neilson, Windsor has two Liberal cabinet ministers at the provincial level and they played a role in getting the province to expand the casino. The city tends to vote Liberal in provincial elections but NDP in federal elections for some reason. However, the riding of Essex voted Conservative in the last federal election so we do have a representative there. The rural region surrounding the city is quite conservative.

[hudkina]

I find it silly that they would put up such a fuss about turning Huron Church Rd into an expressway. For one it's already a limited access highway with three lanes of traffic divided by a center median. The only reason it isn't a true expressway is that there are traffic lights. And while there are are several businesses along the southern portion of the road you could either build a service drive or turn Daytona Ave into one. Add on/off ramps at College Ave, Techumseh Rd, Malden Rd, Prince Rd, and Northwood St and cut off the three other streets (Millen St, Girardot St, and Dorchester Rd) that end at Huron Church Rd and you have yourself an expressway. From the looks of it, there are only two small buildings that would be cut off, and while I don't know the area except from driving through a few times, I doubt they couldn't relocate. All of the rest of the businesses have other access points along the streets that cut across or run parallel.

[LMich]

Oh my god that is the shittiest rendering ever. Whoever hires newspaper editorial illustrators to design their renderings probably shouldn't be taken seriously.

I seriously doubt that was a serious rendering.

[hudkina]

It was more of a visual aid to show how it would be possible.

[Blitz]

^They don't want Huron Church Road turned into an expressway because of all the new subdivisions just to the east of that road that have been built in the past ten years. These 'hoods have some of the highest incomes in the city and they have a very powerful voice. There's even a high school located on Huron Church Road. The road should be an arterial road for city residents, not a superhighway for international trucks.

Basically, we're all sick of the truck traffic in the city - it should be diverted to a bypass and the feds can afford it but they won't invest in podunk Windsor. (They have no problem building highway bypasses around Toronto though).

[hudkina]

Nevermind, I was thinking they would only have to build the expressway to the EC Row, but it would have to go all the way down to the 401. It's strange that you don't have a north-south highway in the Windsor area, especially directly connected to one of the busiest international border crossings in the nation. What they should do is have the 401 turn north before the airport and connect to the EC Row where Lauzon Pkwy is and that way you'd only need that small stretch of Huron Church Rd be converted into an expressway.

[Blitz]

^ No, because that would turn EC Row into a truck highway!

Anyway, in today's paper, there was an article about how city council has unanimously endorsed building a tunnel several km long for trucks leading from the end of Highway 401 to a new bridge. This would cost billions of dollars but would prevent truck pollution from hurting neighbourhoods.

[Cleveland Brown]

^ I can't see any government supporting that impossible idea.

[neilson]

^ No, because that would turn EC Row into a truck highway!

Anyway, in today's paper, there was an article about how city council has unanimously endorsed building a tunnel several km long for trucks leading from the end of Highway 401 to a new bridge. This would cost billions of dollars but would prevent truck pollution from hurting neighbourhoods.
What's wrong with EC Row being a Truck Route? It's already Freeway Grade and it'd be an affordable option if all that needs to be done is connect the east end of EC Row with the 401 and a short stub of Freeway-grade Huron Church Road between EC Row and the new Bridge.

[Blitz]

If you've ever driven EC Row, you'd know the answer to that :)

The exits and ramps are very close together since it was designed as a cross-town freeway for cars. The road is maintained by the city and it's not fair for Windsor residents to have to deal with thousands of international trucks per day on our cross-town expressway.

Cleveland Brown, it seems far-fetched at first...but the feds recently pledged $2B to expand the Toronto subway system into a sprawling suburb. This is Canada's most important trade route and it deserves attention. Windsor's west side already has some of the highest cancer rates in Canada because of pollution.

[neilson]

If you've ever driven EC Row, you'd know the answer to that :)

The exits and ramps are very close together since it was designed as a cross-town freeway for cars. The road is maintained by the city and it's not fair for Windsor residents to have to deal with thousands of international trucks per day on our cross-town expressway.

Cleveland Brown, it seems far-fetched at first...but the feds recently pledged $2B to expand the Toronto subway system into a sprawling suburb. This is Canada's most important trade route and it deserves attention. Windsor's west side already has some of the highest cancer rates in Canada because of pollution.
Wrong, EC Row was recently reassumed by Ontario MTO and now has a secret Ontario Provincial number. So, there's a chance now that Queen's Park might have a vested interest again in making sure EC Row is fixed to where it's of 400-series standard.

[Blitz]

That still doesn't change the fact that it's not designed for trucks and we shouldn't have to deal with them. What you're proposing is an option that has been mentioned by the province, but it's not going to get any support from the city.

[LMich]

Well, I'm getting the impression that I originally assumed of Windsor. If the city as inflexible as shown above, there is no wonder why the provincial government doesn't deal with it, often. If Windsors' compromise is essentially "Tunnel or Bust", well, that's not very flexible, is it? lol

[hudkina]

The EC Row has a rather large center median that could be converted into an express route for trucks and other motorists passing through the city to keep the rest of the highway for local residents.

[Blitz]

LMich, I don't see why Windsor has to bend over backwards for anyone. Why should Windsor residents have to put up with all these trucks that will contribute nothing to the city except traffic problems and pollution?

Part of the reason Mayor Francis was re-elected is because he's taking a stand against the upper levels of government. Windsor has been pushed around and ignored for so long and we're sick of it. They've pledged so much money for highway by-passes and transportation improvements in other cities but we get nothing. We deserve a by-pass or some other measure to get trucks out of the city.

[LMich]

Bending over backwards? Again, the "tunnel of bust" attitude is not a compromise. Again, with something as complicated as a border crossing, everyone has to compromise on something.

[Cleveland Brown]

Cleveland Brown, it seems far-fetched at first...but the feds recently pledged $2B to expand the Toronto subway system into a sprawling suburb. This is Canada's most important trade route and it deserves attention. Windsor's west side already has some of the highest cancer rates in Canada because of pollution.

Comparing Toronto and Windsor :hmmm: is kind of like Detroit bitching about New York's Second Avenue Subway. Perhaps if Windsor WERE Toronto, then a tunnel may be feasible, but let's not kid ourselves government expenses for a capital project are going to correlate with the area's tax revenues, population, political importance and as the sunbelt knows - GROWTH POTENTIAL.

[LMich]

Brown, you had me until Growth Potentional. Windsor is a growing city and area. It's not astronomical growth, but Ontario could do much better in supporting Windsor than it is. Not only that, but another border crossing is in the interest of both state and provincial government, as that's the reason another border crossing is going to happen: because their is major demand for another crossing. If Ontario wants to invest in growth, it will invest its time in making sure this border crossing happens. This isn't some project the two governments had to force to create some false demand, the growth potentional dictated the proposal.

[Blitz]

It is a compromise but we've compromised for decades - the trucks have been barreling down city streets for 50 years because the province was too stupid to connect Highway 401 to the Ambassador when they built 401 in the first place.

A tunnel would be great but the next best thing would be to build a highway bypass south and west of the city, leaving EC Row for local commuters.

It's true that Windsor is growing at a good clip - the census results just revealed the city population is now 216,000. But it now has the 2nd highest unemployment rate in Canada because of the failing auto industry, and is really the only part of Ontario where the economy is slow.

[LMich]

Things are getting cattier. And it looks like the Detroit International Bridge Company is doing some spinning and damage control. lol

Ambassador Bridge president defends plans for second bridge to Canada

April 17, 2007

Andy Henion / The Detroit News

DETROIT -- Ambassador Bridge officials defended their plan to build a second span today, claiming government leaders are misleading the public to gain support for their own proposed bridge.

A bi-national team consisting of the Michigan, U.S., Windsor and Canadian governments released a diagram showing a second Ambassador bridge would gobble up 80 acres in Windsor's Sandwich District, displacing many residents, Ambassador President Dan Stamper said at a news conference in downtown Detroit.

In reality, Stamper said, the privately owned bridge would need only 40 acres in Windsor.

"Because of the false drawing, the people in Sandwich have been unnecessarily alarmed about our project and that has to stop," Stamper said.

Mark Butler, spokesman for Transport Canada -- that government's equivalent of the U.S. Department of Transportation -- said the drawing that was released was based on a previous Ambassador plan.

Responding to Stamper's claims that the bi-national team is intentionally confusing the process, he said, "I think that's unfair."

Transport Canada has said that it is committed to a publicly owned crossing. Nonetheless, Butler said the agency will be fair when it evaluates the Ambassador's environmental permit.

"We're being open and transparent," he said.

The private bridge would extend from Detroit's Mexicantown community to Windsor, directly adjacent to the current Ambassador Bridge. It would cost about $1 billion, including land costs, and no public funds will be used, Stamper said.

Ambassador officials have received clearance from the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality to build a bridge. The U.S. Coast Guard will rule on their main environmental permit.

Ambassador officials have purchased all the land they need on both sides of the border, Stamper said. The company is letting about 15-20 Windsor residents lives in their homes for free -- even though the company has purchased the houses -- until the bridge is built, he added.

The public bridge, in the design phase, would cost the United States an estimated $1 billion and at least that much for Canada. It would be paid off by fares, officials have said.

The public bridge must also receive environmental clearance on both sides of the border.

MDOT officials have said that if the Ambassador is successful in getting cleared for construction, the public bridge will not be built.

You can reach Andy Henion at (313) 222-2610 or ahenion@detnews.com.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070417/UPDATE/704170454/1003

[Blitz]

I've been following these articles in the Free Press as well and they seem to be focusing on the Sandwich neighbourhood, but the bigger issue facing Windsor residents is that if this bridge is twinned then Huron Church Road will likely be turned into an at-grade freeway...that's what we don't want.

Another issue is Windsor's extreme distrust for Moroun. Windsor is taking over ownership of Detroit's half of the Windsor-Detroit tunnel for $75M to keep it out of Moroun's hands.

[neilson]

I've been following these articles in the Free Press as well and they seem to be focusing on the Sandwich neighbourhood, but the bigger issue facing Windsor residents is that if this bridge is twinned then Huron Church Road will likely be turned into an at-grade freeway...that's what we don't want.

Another issue is Windsor's extreme distrust for Moroun. Windsor is taking over ownership of Detroit's half of the Windsor-Detroit tunnel for $75M to keep it out of Moroun's hands.
So, you DON'T want EC Row to become the Truck Freeway.

You DON'T want Huron Church to become a "401 connector".

You DON'T want the pollution of the trucks, yet your city is tied to the transport industry.

Humm, seems to me that you're gonna have to compromise on something that involves a freeway and limited access.

[Blitz]

What Windsor has always wanted is a freeway connection from the 401 leading to a new bridge a few miles downriver from the Ambassador.

If that doesn't happen and if the Ambassador is twinned, then the city supports a tunnel for trucks leading to the new twinned bridge.

[hudkina]

But where is all of the exhaust from the tunnels going to go? And how are you going to build the tunnel and where? Is it going to go under Huron Church Rd? Or is it going to go under the EC Row? Or is it going to be built 300 miles under ground and come out in downtown Toronto?;)

[neilson]

What Windsor has always wanted is a freeway connection from the 401 leading to a new bridge a few miles downriver from the Ambassador.

If that doesn't happen and if the Ambassador is twinned, then the city supports a tunnel for trucks leading to the new twinned bridge.
The downriver bridge isn't gonna happen.

Transport Canada and Ontario MTO aren't showing any interest.

US DOT and MDOT aren't showing any interest.

I'd like to see a 401 westward extension across the river and end up as an interstate spur route that goes to I-75, but that's not gonna happen.

You gotta be realistic.

[Blitz]

The 401 connection to 75 that you mentioned makes the most sense. The province hasn't stated what they favour because they're waiting for the report due this summer from the DRIC.

Hudkina, I haven't been following the logistics of the proposed tunnel other than the fact that there's a plan to handle exhaust and the project would cost over $1B. The next best thing would be a below-grade freeway along Huron Church Road (similar to Detroit's freeways) but we can't even trust the province or feds to do that for us.

[hudkina]

Well if it's anything like American politics, they'll promise the billion dollar tunnel, but hand you the $2 billion at-grade freeway.;)

[LMich]

A LOT of political wrangling is going on, as of late. It seems that the Republican-controlled Senate wants to pull the plug on a public crossing citing cost savings for the state, at the moment. At the same time, the auto industry is fighting for them to keep this plan alive. All the while a private investment company has made a surprise bid for the Detroit half of the Detroit-Windsor public tunnel. It's enough news to make your head spin:

http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/220239

http://www.thestar.com/images/assets/233037_3.JPG

New bridge to Michigan hits a bump
The cash-strapped state could amend its budget to cut funding support for the planned project

Jun 01, 2007

Tony Van Alphen
Business Reporter

Michigan says it is close to stopping project funding for a multi-billion-dollar bridge between Detroit and Windsor that is critical to the future of the Canadian and U.S economies.

Alan Cropsey, majority leader in the Michigan senate, said yesterday that legislators will likely pass a proposed amendment to the state budget within 60 days that would cut financial support of a continuing study for the bridge project.

"There is a huge concern that many of us have in the legislature about whether the state of Michigan should be funding another crossing," Cropsey said in an interview with the Toronto Star.

Cropsey, a Republican senator, said cash-strapped Michigan is questioning why the state should be spending money on a project when the owner of the Ambassador Bridge wants to twin it, owns the necessary property and has received government approvals.

A Michigan move to cut money for the study will be seen as a sign the state will not support the cost of the American half of the project – a tab that could run from $1.5 billion to $3.5 billion (U.S.), according to Cropsey.

"This is such a boondoggle," he said, noting the state has far more pressing budget needs.

A pullout by Michigan could further delay any relief for a worsening border traffic problem. It has dragged on for more than a decade and already cost business millions of dollars annually.

"It puts the new bridge for completion by 2013 in jeopardy," said Gerald Fedchun, president of the Automotive Parts Manufacturers' Association. "This would be a very serious setback."

Other industry groups, including big auto makers on both sides of the border, are lobbying politicians and urging senate leaders to keep the bridge funding. Manufacturers have called a new crossing imperative and "a bottom line issue."

Cropsey said he believes a strong majority of the Republican-controlled senate will support the amendment, part of the next fiscal budget in the fall of this year. Governor Jennifer Granholm, a Democrat, "is leaning" toward support of the amendment, he added.

The bridge study has also received money from the Canadian, Ontario and U.S. governments. It should be complete by the end of the year and could cost up to $38 million, Cropsey said.

"My guess is they have expended more than half of the costs so far," he said. "We want to stop it now. It's just a waste of money."

Meanwhile, trucking magnate Matty Moroun, who owns the Ambassador Bridge, and other executives of his company said this week they have been frustrated over what they describe as recent meddling by government politicians and bureaucrats into border crossing operations where they have no expertise.

Like Cropsey, Moroun said the study to select the next crossing location is a waste of money.

Adding to the uncertainy, Moroun told the Windsor Star that he would sell the Ambassador Bridge if the price is right.

Cropsey's revelation about strong support for cutting project funding follows a letter from auto makers to Cropsey and more than two dozen senators that urges them to continue financial assistance.

John Whatley, vice-president of the the U.S. Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, and Mark Nantais, president of the Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers Association, said in the May 11 letter that the amendment will stop progress toward this "critical infrastructure."

Fedchun's struggling auto parts group has sought a resolution for years because the Windsor-Detroit border bottleneck is increasingly hurting its competitive position.

He suggested the Michigan amendment would seem to favour Moroun and give him some leverage in resolving the long crossing controversy.

"It sounds like someone who owns an existing crossing would want this to happen," said Fedchun, a Windsor native who has watched the problem grow ever larger over the years.

Fedchun said his group and Canadian governments prefer a public bridge because of security concerns and the need to avoid someone holding a monopoly on commercial border crossings.

"The twinning beside the existing bridge would create a security risk," he said. "If you have a big truck and blow up one bridge, you would damage the other one."

He noted a new bridge could be operated privately, as long as its was subject to public control.

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http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...PDATE/705310487 (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070531/UPDATE/705310487)

Automakers back plan for publicly owned bridge to Canada

May 31, 2007

Andy Henion / The Detroit News

The alliance that represents the Big Three automakers has come out in support of a publicly owned bridge from Detroit to Windsor.

In a May 11 letter to state Sen. Alan Cropsey, majority floor leader, the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers says "the need for an additional crossing to handle current and future trade flows is widely acknowledged and it is imperative that this new crossing be completed as soon as possible."

The Washington, D.C.-based alliance, along with the Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers' Association, "strongly" support the joint effort by Michigan, Ontario and the U.S. and Canadian governments toward "securing a new gateway at Detroit/Windsor," the letter says.

The letter is signed by John Whatley, vice president and general counsel for the alliance, and Mark Nantais, president of the Canadian group. The alliance represents General Motors, Ford, DaimlerChrysler, while the association represents three automakers' Canadian operations.

A bi-national commission consisting of the four government groups is studying a potential crossing southwest of the Ambassador Bridge. Meanwhile, bridge owner Manuel "Matty" Moroun wants to build a second span directly adjacent to the Ambassador. Either bridge would need approval from governments on both sides of the border.

Moroun's bridge would cost about $1 billion, according to his representatives. A public bridge could cost $2 billion or more, officials have said.

According to the letter, Michigan legislators are considering a budget amendment to withdraw Michigan's support for the public effort, called the Detroit River International Crossing study, or DRIC. That would "effectively (stop) progress toward this critical new infrastructure."

The automaker groups urge lawmakers to "reject the amendment and maintain the Detroit/Windsor infrastructure as a top priority."

The Ambassador is the world's most important single gateway for trade, the letter states, with the U.S. and Canadian auto industries sending thousands of cross-border truck shipments and well over $100 million through the gateway every day.

You can reach Andy Henion at (313) 222-2610 or ahenion@detnews.com.

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http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...METRO/706010377 (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070601/METRO/706010377)

$60M bid for Detroit's side of the tunnel

June 01, 2007

Amy Lee / The Detroit News

DETROIT -- A private equity firm emerged this week as a surprise second bidder to control Detroit's side of the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel, throwing a wrench into the city's ongoing negotiations for the Canadian city to assume operations of the international crossing.

New York City-based Alinda Capital Partners, which operates Detroit's side under a contract that expires in 2020, this week offered $60 million cash in exchange for extending its contract through 2080. That's about $2 million more than Detroit would receive under a deal that would allow Windsor to operate Detroit's tunnel for 75 years, beginning in 2020.

Detroit and Windsor officials have indicated they prefer the tunnel and its operations remain in the public sector, in light of the fact the Ambassador Bridge is privately owned and controlled by Grosse Pointe billionaire Manuel "Matty" Moroun.

Leasing the Detroit side of the tunnel to Alinda would create a near-monopoly of privately controlled international crossings between Detroit and Windsor.

Representatives from Alinda did not return calls for comment. Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick declined comment though his spokesman James Canning.

But Cliff Sutts, Windsor's lead attorney brokering the tunnel deal, said the cities have an agreement to deal exclusively with each other when determining operations for Detroit's side of the tunnel.

[Michi]

The cash-strapped state could amend its budget to cut funding support for the planned project

Awe, that's just too bad isn't it. I guess we'll just have to woefully agree to pass up this opportunity for economic investment to the heavily competing Ontario-New York crossing. But that's ok. We're saving money in the short term!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Exclaimation exclaimation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Eh, maybe the 5 workers left at Pulte Homes will build me a paper castle on the pig farm at 59 Mile...no, not M-59...59 Mile...

I swear you guys, I'm (-) this close to flushing all the cynicism out of me. :)