[g-man435]

:banana: http://www.wyff4.com/news/11296118/detail.html and http://goupstate.com/article/20070319/NEWS/703190320/1062

-Spartanburg is located in the Greenville CSA and is the county to the east of Greenville in case you're wondering.

[Teshadoh]

-Spartanburg is located in the Greenville MSA

No. No. No. No. No. No.

May my ancestor's ghosts from Pauline & Cooley Springs haunt you & your descendants forever.

[g-man435]

^^^Not you again. CSA it should be.

[Teshadoh]

^^^Not you again. CSA it should be.

Greenville-Spartanburg CSA. ;)

[Greenville]

Actually, as of the last census (2000), Spartanburg was part of the Greenville-Spartanburg-Anderson MSA, which had a population of around 962,000. The MSA was broken up for the 2005 estimate, but many feel that it will be recombined by 2010 given the growth and obvious link between the two. Regardless, this news is great for the upstate of SC. :)

[Teshadoh]

Actually, as of the last census (2000), Spartanburg was part of the Greenville-Spartanburg-Anderson MSA, which had a population of around 962,000. The MSA was broken up for the 2005 estimate, but many feel that it will be recombined by 2010 given the growth and obvious link between the two. Regardless, this news is great for the upstate of SC. :)

No - the Office of Management & Budget defines the MSA & CSA, irregardless of the Census Bureau. They redefined the MSA & CSA for the 2002 definitions, thus properly placing Spartanburg in it's own MSA. Spartanburg will remain the seat of it's own MSA well after the next definition in 2012 - as long as Spartanburg remains an economic & employment hub as it is. Spartanburg is not a suburb of Greenville, thus Spartanburg MSA exists.

I'm happy that Spartanburg will be able to keep Adidas from leaving as they were planning to - but it does suck that the state & county has to 'buy' jobs so Adidas will reinvest in the county. But I'm glad that more employment options are open to the unemployed / underemployed in Spartanburg - especially considering both EchoStar & Pitney Bowes are investing heavily in Spartanburg County.

[Spartan]

Spartanburg is definitely not a suburb of Greenville.

[erm1981]

^^^Really?

[g-man435]

Spartanburg is definitely not a suburb of Greenville.

Proof or just an opinion?

[KB0679]

Identifying suburbs can get to be somewhat subjective, but I know of no one who considers Spartanburg a suburb of Greenville--especially when you consider one of the biggest economic generators of the Upstate, the BMW plant, is located in Spartanburg County. The fact that Spartanburg has its own MSA shows that it can hold its own economically and has a certain level of economic influence on surrounding communities; this is not so with suburbs, which are far more economically dependent on a larger, central city. There is a mutal interdependency among the urban cores of the Upstate, particularly Greenville and Spartanburg.

[neilson]

Spartanburg is definitely not a suburb of Greenville.
Ok, so then what the hell is Greer? Is it a suburb of Greenville AND Spartanburg? Does that mean both cities have an equal claim to BMW being in their metro area since their suburb Greer has the plant?

[Spartan]

Ok, so then what the hell is Greer? Is it a suburb of Greenville AND Spartanburg? Does that mean both cities have an equal claim to BMW being in their metro area since their suburb Greer has the plant?

Basicly, yes- both claim BMW. Greer is "technically" a suburb of Greenville, though parts of it are located in Spartanburg County. Greenville makes the arguement that since Greer is a suburb of Greenville, BMW is "theirs." But since BMW is in Spartanburg County, and lists Spartanburg on their website, Spartanburg gets equal rights. The reality is that BMW is an "Upstate" business. It located where it did because of its ideal location between the two cities and very large workforce.

Spartanburg is not a suburb of Greenville. That is a fact. Like KB stated, it has its own MSA now, and for a reason (which he stated). The net population exchange in 2000 between the two counties is abour 3300 to Greenville.

Greenville Co to Spartanburg Co: 11,205
Spartanburg Co to Greenville Co: 14,596

TOTAL: 25,801 exchanged. That MIGHT be 10% of the workforce of both counties combined that is exchanged, if that.

That doesn't come close to the requirements for being a joint MSA. It doesn't mean we aren't linked to Greenville or that Greenville isn't liked to us. BMW is a classic example of how we are linked together. It just means that we aren't a suburb. Thats all.

[g-man435]

^^What happens if Spartanburg becomes a part of the Greenville MSA again, which it should? :shrug: Don't forget about where the BMW ITRC is located Spartan. ;) Most people think BMW is more tied to Greenville than Spartanburg, which it technically is.

[Teshadoh]

^^What happens if Spartanburg becomes a part of the Greenville MSA again, which it should? :shrug: Don't forget about where the BMW ITRC is located Spartan. ;) Most people think BMW is more tied to Greenville than Spartanburg, which it technically is.

Is San Jose a suburb of San Francisco? Is Tacoma a suburb of Seattle? Is St. Petersburg a suburb of Tampa? Is Ft. Worth a suburb of Dallas?

[neilson]

Basicly, yes- both claim BMW. Greer is "technically" a suburb of Greenville, though parts of it are located in Spartanburg County. Greenville makes the arguement that since Greer is a suburb of Greenville, BMW is "theirs." But since BMW is in Spartanburg County, and lists Spartanburg on their website, Spartanburg gets equal rights. The reality is that BMW is an "Upstate" business. It located where it did because of its ideal location between the two cities and very large workforce.

Spartanburg is not a suburb of Greenville. That is a fact. Like KB stated, it has its own MSA now, and for a reason (which he stated). The net population exchange in 2000 between the two counties is abour 3300 to Greenville.

Greenville Co to Spartanburg Co: 11,205
Spartanburg Co to Greenville Co: 14,596

TOTAL: 25,801 exchanged. That MIGHT be 10% of the workforce of both counties combined that is exchanged, if that.

That doesn't come close to the requirements for being a joint MSA. It doesn't mean we aren't linked to Greenville or that Greenville isn't liked to us. BMW is a classic example of how we are linked together. It just means that we aren't a suburb. Thats all.
That's cool. I always figured that Greer went both ways and that's just as well. When it's good to be a suburb of Spartanburg then they can be a suburb of Spartanburg. Likewise when it's better to be a suburb of Greenville then they can be a suburb of Greenville.

Greer is to Greenville/Spartanburg as Cary is to Raleigh/Durham.

[KB0679]

^^What happens if Spartanburg becomes a part of the Greenville MSA again, which it should? :shrug:

Is that a fact or an opinion? ;)

[Skyliner]

That's cool. I always figured that Greer went both ways and that's just as well. When it's good to be a suburb of Spartanburg then they can be a suburb of Spartanburg. Likewise when it's better to be a suburb of Greenville then they can be a suburb of Greenville.

Greer is to Greenville/Spartanburg as Cary is to Raleigh/Durham.
At this point (and probably not for several more decades) Greer cannot be even remotely considered a suburb of Spartanburg. It is not anywhere near the outer boundaries of the Spartanburg metro area, yet Greenville's growth has bumped into and even intertwined itself with that of Greer. Usually Greer eventually annexes that growth though, which I am not opposed to.

[neilson]

At this point (and probably not for several more decades) Greer cannot be even remotely considered a suburb of Spartanburg. It is not anywhere near the outer boundaries of the Spartanburg metro area, yet Greenville's growth has bumped into and even intertwined itself with that of Greer. Usually Greer eventually annexes that growth though, which I am not opposed to.
I guess you make a good point. The best way to tell who the real city that Greer is a suburb of is to make a simple poll asking the residents of Greer if they travel to the general areas around Haywood Mall or Westgate Mall for their shopping outside of Greer.

Then you'll know if it's truly a Spartanburg or Greenville Suburb(or both depending on if the result is a nearly split down the middle)

[Skyliner]

Here is an easy answer:
Why would people living in Greer consistently drive much further to Spartanburg for much less shopping and dining options?

I work in both Greenville and Spartanburg, so I speak from first hand observation and experience in both the areas.

[Teshadoh]

What would be considered 'suburban Spartanburg' begins directly east of Greer - with the Duncan, Lyman, ??? cluster of mill towns. Of course that has only been in the past couple of decades as the mills have no longer dominated town life as they once did. Realistically, there are people living in Greer that do commute to Spartanburg or at least Spartanburg County (which by Census definitions might as well be Spartanburg).

I really don't expect the question - where does suburban Greenville & suburban Spartanburg begin / end to get any easier. Not necessarily being the future likelihood of the two urban areas merging but most likely due to the employment center sprawling further. This isn't to pick on Greenville & Spartanburg, but since the 2 cities have less of a time to develop into major business centers in their downtown, suburban oriented commuting patterns will dominate Gv-Sp & their will be no point in determining which city is more dominate. Truly - this isn't to pick on these 2 cities, the same has been occurring in Atlanta & is occurring in Charlotte.

[Skyliner]

I didn't completely understand your post, Tesh. Some of it makes sense, but you lost me with the last portion.

I would say, based on my observation, that Duncan is at the extreme western edge of Spartanburg's metro area. The people I know who live there typically travel to Spartanburg to shop. I have yet to meet someone living in Greer who regularly travels to Spartanburg to shop. It would be completely illogical to make the trip, unless that person has a necessity beyond the shopping experience. Greer has most of what is needed, and Greenville is a much shorter drive away for anything beyond those available options.

<sidebar>
If we were to get into a debate on which is the dominant city in the region, the facts would very heavily point to Greenville. There is little point in even starting that discussion.
</sidebar>

My opinion is clear: I view Greenville as a far superior city at this point in time, and at the current rate of progression in both places, this trend does not appear to be about to change. That is not to say that Spartanburg has nothing going on or anything to offer. It is a nice city that has changed for the good in recent years, like Greenville in a way, yet much less at this point. There aren't nearly as many places to go or "things" to do in Spartanburg. Yet. ;)

[g-man435]

Adidas confirms it will expand Spartanburg operations: http://goupstate.com/article/20070406/NEWS/70406009/1062

[g-man435]

Adidas confirms it will hire 1,200 people and expand its operations in Spartanburg: http://greenvilleonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070407/NEWS01/704070308

[glowrock]

Glad to hear about companies expanding in Spartanburg... This whole issue about Spartanburg, Greenville, Greer, etc., is really funny, though. I'm not sure why the area can't simply take a cue from the airport, and call it the Greenville-Spartanburg region? Greenville is clearly the dominant city, no denying that, but when the major employers really aren't in EITHER city, because BOTH cities are very, very small in both area and population, it makes sense to just merge the two areas together and refer to them as the Upstate! :)

Aaron (Glowrock)

PS: FWIW, Westgate Mall is definitely better than the mall(s) in Greenville... Hahaha

PPS: Hell, let's make this a REAL interesting situation, and start adding Asheville to the mix! Then we can have Greenville/Spartanburg/Anderson/Asheville... The Upstate! Haha (As glowrock runs quickly from the Asheville natives who now want to hunt me down and kill me immediately!)

[Skyliner]

...
PS: FWIW, Westgate Mall is definitely better than the mall(s) in Greenville... Hahaha
...

I assume you are joking, right? Since you brought the malls up, yesterday I actually visited Haywood Mall in Greenville for the first time in a couple years, and I don't think there is really a comparison between them anymore. The recent renovations at Haywood are spectacular and the stores are great.:tup:

[g-man435]

^^If krazeeboi comes over here, i'm going to blow a headcasket.

[jklewis88]

G-man...

Can you tell me how you know all the goings-on regarding proposed buildings in G'ville so early?

[g-man435]

^^I mostly just contact the developers of projects and they tell me information on current and upcoming projects. Why?

[jklewis88]

Just curious...and I'm glad that you have info because I live out of state and I'd like to move to Greenville at some point.
I'm particularly interested in living downtown. I'd like something upscale and I'd love it if G'ville attracted some upscale businesses...like, for instance, a Dean and Deluca (as in Charlotte), a Williams-Sonoma, etc. My dream town is the historic area in Charleston, but I love the location of G'ville...almost mid-point between Charlotte and Atlanta.

So, please...keep up the good work! :)

[KB0679]

What is a "headcasket"?

[g-man435]

^^I spelled it wrong. It should say headgasket, not headcasket.

[Skyliner]

Just curious...and I'm glad that you have info because I live out of state and I'd like to move to Greenville at some point.
I'm particularly interested in living downtown. I'd like something upscale and I'd love it if G'ville attracted some upscale businesses...like, for instance, a Dean and Deluca (as in Charlotte), a Williams-Sonoma, etc. My dream town is the historic area in Charleston, but I love the location of G'ville...almost mid-point between Charlotte and Atlanta.

So, please...keep up the good work! :)

Hi jklewis88!:) I am glad to hear of your interest in moving to the charming and fun city of Greenville. I wanted to mention that we have a nice Williams-Sonoma in Haywood Mall (http://www.simon.com/mall/default.aspx?ID=206). They actually host cooking shows there as well, though I have yet to get over for any. You may also like the Foxfire Gallery & Kitchen (http://www.foxfireshops.com/) shops here in town, and The Cook's Station (http://www.thecooksstation.com/) on Main Street as well.:tup: One thing you may notice about this city is that it is definitely a dining destination. Several well-known chefs have setup shop here and plan to continue enhancing the quality dining experience.

[jklewis88]

Hello again, G-man, and thanks for the response.

Gee, I hope I didn't put too much emphasis on the gourmet type thing, although that definitely is a plus. I'd like for downtown G'ville to become an area where residents can live without relying on their cars so much...do you think that will happen? (with the exception of having to drive to work)
Mostly I hope to see upscale shops in general.

But, now that you mention "well known chefs" ....is one of those Tyler Florence of the food network?

[g-man435]

^^Downtown Greenville is already a place you can live without a car depending on if you work down there too or not. Also, Tyler Florence is going to be putting in a restaurant in the Pinnacle on Main when it gets built. :)

[glowrock]

I assume you are joking, right? Since you brought the malls up, yesterday I actually visited Haywood Mall in Greenville for the first time in a couple years, and I don't think there is really a comparison between them anymore. The recent renovations at Haywood are spectacular and the stores are great.:tup:

Maybe the renovations are more recent than the last time I was out there (probably about 2 years ago when I was out visiting my parents in Spartanburg)... If not, then no, of all things Greenville has over Spartanburg (a LOT, for what it's worth), the Westgate Mall is modern, clean, and actually has some decent architecture, for a mall at least... ;)

Aaron (Glowrock)

[Skyliner]

Maybe the renovations are more recent than the last time I was out there (probably about 2 years ago when I was out visiting my parents in Spartanburg)... If not, then no, of all things Greenville has over Spartanburg (a LOT, for what it's worth), the Westgate Mall is modern, clean, and actually has some decent architecture, for a mall at least... ;)

Aaron (Glowrock)It is completely different from your last visit then. Trust me, Haywood Mall is much better now.:tup:

[jklewis88]

G-man, that's interesting about Tyler Florence...I'll have to look for it and give it a try once it's built. :)

I'm hoping that sometime in the future (not in a great hurry) there will be a new condo building proposed-- something that is high-end, attention to detail, maybe even where the buyer hires an architect to design the interior.
I saw that the 98 East McBee sold quickly, but from what I understand there are still units available in the Bookends. Do you have any idea why the Bookends didn't have the interest that some of the other condos have had?

If you learn about some proposed downtown condos I'd really appreciate it if you could clue me in early. Possible?

[Skyliner]

G-man, that's interesting about Tyler Florence...I'll have to look for it and give it a try once it's built. :)

I'm hoping that sometime in the future (not in a great hurry) there will be a new condo building proposed-- something that is high-end, attention to detail, maybe even where the buyer hires an architect to design the interior.
I saw that the 98 East McBee sold quickly, but from what I understand there are still units available in the Bookends. Do you have any idea why the Bookends didn't have the interest that some of the other condos have had?

If you learn about some proposed downtown condos I'd really appreciate it if you could clue me in early. Possible?
Last time I checked, The Bookends had only one unit remaining to be sold, yet that was a few months ago and it now appears to be full. There is a second phase of this project to be built "soon." It is on the Washington Street side of the parking garage. Other notable residential projects in the works downtown include an eight-story building on Rhett Street in the west end, a 4 or 5-story mixed-use building very nearby on RiverStreet, a 9-story building on East Court Street, and of course the future phases of RiverPlace, which are nearing construction. McBee Station is another that has a sizable residential component just beginning construction. There are many other new residential developments either under construction or proposed, but I only mentioned the major ones I could think of off hand. Most new developments downtown include residential, so it should be very easy to locate one you like.;)

[erm1981]

The Fieldhouse condos at the Ballpark, and The Terrace at Riverplace. Also poinsett corners is fairly new also. Lots of developement at woodruff road in the future if that is what floats your boat!

[jklewis88]

Woodruff Road looks like it has a lot to offer (however, it looks like traffic congestion is a problem), but I definitely prefer the downtown area. Terrace at Riverplace is a great location, but not quite the architectural look I'm hoping to find. Terrace at Riverplace looks a little too commercial architecturally. I'm looking for something a little more contemporary classic...
i.e. clean traditional.

I used to own a house in Seaside, FL...pretty much the granddaddy of TND's (Traditional Neighborhood Development). If you're interested in town development and aren't familiar with that development, you might like to check it out:

www.seasidefl.com

Ever see The Truman Show with Jim Carrey?...it was filmed at Seaside.

Seaside is in the panhandle, about 20 miles east of Destin, FL.

[neilson]

Woodruff Road looks like it has a lot to offer (however, it looks like traffic congestion is a problem), but I definitely prefer the downtown area. Terrace at Riverplace is a great location, but not quite the architectural look I'm hoping to find. Terrace at Riverplace looks a little too commercial architecturally. I'm looking for something a little more contemporary classic...
i.e. clean traditional.

I used to own a house in Seaside, FL...pretty much the granddaddy of TND's (Traditional Neighborhood Development). If you're interested in town development and aren't familiar with that development, you might like to check it out:

www.seasidefl.com

Ever see The Truman Show with Jim Carrey?...it was filmed at Seaside.

Seaside is in the panhandle, about 20 miles east of Destin, FL.
The Truman Show creeped me out. Too cleancut. Too fake. This is why I like going east of Panama City when I go to the beach.

[jklewis88]

G-man...

Thanks for the info about Rhett St and River St. Could you tell me who to contact about those?

[g-man435]

^^I don't know who is doing the project on River Street. Perhaps Skyliner knows. The one on Rhett Street is being built by Tom Croft, but unfortunately I don't know his phone number or anything. Be sure to check this out too: http://www.bookends.us/

[g-man435]

G-man, that's interesting about Tyler Florence...I'll have to look for it and give it a try once it's built. :)

I'm hoping that sometime in the future (not in a great hurry) there will be a new condo building proposed-- something that is high-end, attention to detail, maybe even where the buyer hires an architect to design the interior.
I saw that the 98 East McBee sold quickly, but from what I understand there are still units available in the Bookends. Do you have any idea why the Bookends didn't have the interest that some of the other condos have had?

If you learn about some proposed downtown condos I'd really appreciate it if you could clue me in early. Possible?

A new, high-end one could be coming to the gateway site: http://www.wyff4.com/news/11591253/detail.html I think the price is kind of high for the amount of space you get in the bookends is why those haven't sold as well as other projects, but they are starting to move forward in sales now.

[glowrock]

It is completely different from your last visit then. Trust me, Haywood Mall is much better now.:tup:

The next time I'm out in the area visiting my dad, I'll make sure to check it out...

Aaron (Glowrock)