Austin | Domain/North Austin

[Boris]

North Burnet's future outlined
Austin Business Journal - 2:54 PM CDT Tuesday, March 20, 2007by A.J. Mistretta

It's an area of Austin dominated by a multitude of uses with no clear vision and poor transportation infrastructure. It's also a part of town that could boom in coming years with projects that have the potential to drastically reshape where many Austinites shop, work and live.

The 2,500-acre North Burnet/Gateway area--increasingly referred to as Austin's second downtown--along MoPac Expressway is the subject of a recently-completed study that provides a framework to help realize its untapped promise.

In the next three decades the area targeted in the new master plan could become home to 42,000 residential units and 13.2 million square feet of commercial space including office, retail and industrial, according to an executive summary. In its highest-density areas, buildings could reach a height of 30 stories, creating a significant second core in Austin convenient to the burgeoning northwest part of the region as well as downtown.

http://austin.bizjournals.com/austin/stories/2007/03/19/daily14.html?jst=b_ln_hl

.........................

It's beginning to look a lot like Houston ........

[MichaelB]

Sorry, I still think this is all developer spin. Marketers wishing it to be true. It will be a suburban town center as best...... all separated by large highways. Not a second downtown. ( I will be glad to revisit this in 20 years with all of you.... it's a date.)

[TDoss]

Sorry, I still think this is all developer spin. Marketers wishing it to be true. It will be a suburban town center as best...... all separated by large highways. Not a second downtown. ( I will be glad to revisit this in 20 years with all of you.... it's a date.)


MichaelB - I hear what you are saying, but I think that we should give credit where it is due.
This area will change for the better. I really see some possibilities with what is going on.

[KevinFromTexas]

I know what he's saying, though. It's still a retail development with a lot of space and amenities, not really an urban district - a neighborhood. Perhaps in time that will take hold, though, and we will see it become a true neighborhood which will truly be urban in character.

[MichaelB]

I think I may be stuck in what I consider a downtown. I get that. There is an energy and density and texture and depth that a "downtown" has. I look at mid-town in Atlanta as a "second" downtown. It has highrise and lowrise. Old neigborhood restaurant and new. Hotels,Offices, Housing, THeatre, museums..... parks (ok, kinda nearby)

I do think the Arbor/Domain area will continue to grow as a commercial center. And it will be a hub of retail. But the format of things around there is by and large suburban. It would take a lot of undoing for the region, in general, to undo what has been done in the last 15 years in the way of vast parking lots that separate developments, yes/no? It will even be interesting to see how the arboretum will progress now that there has been an exodus to the domain.

Do you think the area will infill with housing, offices, entertainment, culture, recreation, condos? Or just more retail and rentals..... all of which lacks some permanance?

[Mopacs]

Do you think the area will infill with housing, offices, entertainment, culture, recreation, condos? Or just more retail and rentals..... all of which lacks some permanance?

If the city of Austin has its way, I think the Domain/Gateway districts will develop as you hope. As for offices, The Domain will consist of close to a million sq ft of offices when built-out (including a 175,000 sq ft office building nearing completion, near Macy's). Parks and a 5,000 seat ampitheater are planned for the eastern edge of the development. There are also early plans for 25-30+ story condo towers (probably 5-10 years down the road). Also, I spoke with one of the store managers, who indicates that the adjacent second phase, "Domain Crossing" will incorporate more of an entertainment component, including a bowling alley (Lucky Strike?) and arthouse cinema, among many others, as yet unnamed.

I do agree, its hard to 'create' a true urban texture from scratch, especially when mall developers like Simon are playing an integral role. I'm still very optimistic that The Domain will fulfill its potential!

As for the Arboretum... I think it will hold its own. Simon owns and manages both properties, and they certainly have a vested interest in keeping the Arboretum viable! The bigger impact has been on the non-simon properties nearby, such as Arboretum Crossing (which lost Circuit City and DSW to the Shops at Arbor Walk, and Great Hills Station, which lost Borders). The Arboretum/Gateway district is still a hot commodity, and most of the abandoned boxes should be backfilled soon. (Including a Target in the vacated Home Depot building, on Great Hills Trail).

[GoldenBoot]

If the city of Austin has its way, I think the Domain/Gateway districts will develop as you hope. As for offices, The Domain will consist of close to a million sq ft of offices when built-out (including a 175,000 sq ft office building nearing completion, near Macy's). Parks and a 5,000 seat ampitheater are planned for the eastern edge of the development. There are also early plans for 25-30+ story condo towers (probably 5-10 years down the road). Also, I spoke with one of the store managers, who indicates that the adjacent second phase, "Domain Crossing" will incorporate more of an entertainment component, including a bowling alley (Lucky Strike?) and arthouse cinema, among many others, as yet unnamed.

I do agree, its hard to 'create' a true urban texture from scratch, especially when mall developers like Simon are playing an integral role. I'm still very optimistic that The Domain will fulfill its potential!

As for the Arboretum... I think it will hold its own. Simon owns and manages both properties, and they certainly have a vested interest in keeping the Arboretum viable! The bigger impact has been on the non-simon properties nearby, such as Arboretum Crossing (which lost Circuit City and DSW to the Shops at Arbor Walk, and Great Hills Station, which lost Borders). The Arboretum/Gateway district is still a hot commodity, and most of the abandoned boxes should be backfilled soon. (Including a Target in the vacated Home Depot building, on Great Hills Trail).

Just a few things…

First, Simon Property Group does not own The Domain; Endeavor Real Estate Group does. Currently, they just manage the leasing for Phase I. However, I believe Endeavor sold the land for the Domain Crossing to Simon a year or two ago and thus, Simon may own and manage that property.

Additionally, as far as I know, Endeavor has not chosen to partner with Simon for Phase II of The Domain. Rumor has it that Endeavor will be teaming-up with another retail developer for the management/leasing of Phase II. At least that is what I heard several months ago.

Second, The Domain (http://www.thedomainaustin.com/) (Endeavor Real Estate Group's portion) will have over 3 million SF of office space when completely built-out (by 2017). In addition to the office space, the overall plan is to include 300+ hotel rooms, 3,000-4,000 residential units, a 7,000 seat amphitheatre, 1.6 million SF of retail, and a 10+ acre park. Again, this does not include the Domain Crossing (which is solely a Simon Property Group development). Plus, the office space being constructed across from Macy’s (in Building H) is actually 75,000 SF – not 175,000 SF.

Obviously, there will be further developments and redevelopments in the Gateway/N. Burnet neighborhood in the coming couple of decades. By roughly 2030, the City of Austin and the Gateway/N. Burnet neighborhood residents and business owners are envisioning the 2,243-acre (3.5 sq. mi) planning area to be one of high-density, mixed-use developments which will include as many as 82,000 residents (or 24,429 people/sq. mi.); 41,000 apartment, condo and town home units (0 single-family homes); and in excess of 51,500 jobs. Thus, the Arboretum will eventually feel the hurt as the center of commerce moves to its north and east… I wouldn’t be surprised if Simon, in the very near future, decides to sell their stake in the Arboretum. Its value will never be higher than it is today and as the Gateway/N. Burnet area develops, its sells price may reflect this new shift. The glory days of the once great Arboretum are pretty much over…

[MichaelB]

If the city of Austin has its way, I think the Domain/Gateway districts will develop as you hope. As for offices, The Domain will consist of close to a million sq ft of offices when built-out (including a 175,000 sq ft office building nearing completion, near Macy's). Parks and a 5,000 seat ampitheater are planned for the eastern edge of the development. There are also early plans for 25-30+ story condo towers (probably 5-10 years down the road). Also, I spoke with one of the store managers, who indicates that the adjacent second phase, "Domain Crossing" will incorporate more of an entertainment component, including a bowling alley (Lucky Strike?) and arthouse cinema, among many others, as yet unnamed.

I do agree, its hard to 'create' a true urban texture from scratch, especially when mall developers like Simon are playing an integral role. I'm still very optimistic that The Domain will fulfill its potential!

As for the Arboretum... I think it will hold its own. Simon owns and manages both properties, and they certainly have a vested interest in keeping the Arboretum viable! The bigger impact has been on the non-simon properties nearby, such as Arboretum Crossing (which lost Circuit City and DSW to the Shops at Arbor Walk, and Great Hills Station, which lost Borders). The Arboretum/Gateway district is still a hot commodity, and most of the abandoned boxes should be backfilled soon. (Including a Target in the vacated Home Depot building, on Great Hills Trail).

As always, Mopacs, you make good points......

[Mopacs]

Just a few things…

Second, The Domain (http://www.thedomainaustin.com/) (Endeavor Real Estate Group's portion) will have over 3 million SF of office space when completely built-out (by 2017). In addition to the office space, the overall plan is to include 300+ hotel rooms, 3,000-4,000 residential units, a 7,000 seat amphitheatre, 1.6 million SF of retail, and a 10+ acre park. Again, this does not include the Domain Crossing (which is solely a Simon Property Group development). Plus, the office space being constructed across from Macy’s (in Building H) is actually 75,000 SF – not 175,000 SF.

Obviously, there will be further developments and redevelopments in the Gateway/N. Burnet neighborhood in the coming couple of decades. By roughly 2030, the City of Austin and the Gateway/N. Burnet neighborhood residents and business owners are envisioning the 2,243-acre (3.5 sq. mi) planning area to be one of high-density, mixed-use developments which will include as many as 82,000 residents (or 24,429 people/sq. mi.); 41,000 apartment, condo and town home units (0 single-family homes); and in excess of 51,500 jobs. Thus, the Arboretum will eventually feel the hurt as the center of commerce moves to its north and east… I wouldn’t be surprised if Simon, in the very near future, decides to sell their stake in the Arboretum. Its value will never be higher than it is today and as the Gateway/N. Burnet area develops, its sells price may reflect this new shift. The glory days of the once great Arboretum are pretty much over…

You're right... I may have mixed up the sq-footage of this office building with the one proposed along Burnet Rd (which is in the 175k neighborhood). Transwestern lists the building at 125k sqft, which I take to include the 1st floor shops, and approx 90k of offices. I also understand that a local/regional law firm has leased a good chunk of that.
http://austin.transwestern.net/pdfassets/pdf_374.pdf

As for Simon... I was probably thinking of Domain Crossing with their stake in ownership. Thats a shame about The Arboretum. The setting is second to none, but competing for high-end tenants will be a challenge I'm sure. The nearby Gateway center had plans several years back of expanding, reconfiguring and adding more upscale/lifestyle retailers (Crate & Barrell, etc). I'm guessing much of that is out the window? This was perhaps prior to Simon purchasing the property. How do you see The Arboretum evolving over time?... re-tenanting with less upscale retailers or different uses altogether? Just curious... I guess there are a lot of variables that could play out.

[rad707]

I'm with MichaelB on the difference between a downtown and a retail destination. Apartments are as transient as the shoppers who come in by day and leave for their homes (neighborhoods) at night.

One of my major issues with the Domain is that it is a master plan. Very few "downtowns" were built in this way. The master plan is still synonymous with mall culture, even if the mall has been turned inside out and people pushed to the streets. Without a critical mass of homeownership in this area (which may actually happen) and the fragmentation of retail ownership (which won't) the Doman will never become a downtown.

Downtowns are both smooth and rough. They have shining facades and dark alleyways. They have crumbling edges and polished fronts. Some landowners are slumlords and others becons of civility.

Culture needs room to grow; a chance to make mistakes; a chance to express itself. It doesn't need building standards implemented by a master developer. A downtown has to have dicotomy to be reflective of the human condition - nobody is perfect so why do we seek utopian ideals in our building practices?

Good intentions or not, master planners fail to understand the subconscious importance of the seedy, smelly, dirty underbelly of a downtown. For them, the safe route is to seek profits from all gloss and no soul. Hummers. Lattes. Boob jobs. Jesus...

[Mopacs]

Another observation... the overal site plans show the large, sprawling 2-3 story IBM building (closest to the Burnet/Braker intersection) integrated into their 5-10+ year plans? I'm assuming IBM still owns and operates this structure?

EDIT: Here is a Massing/Conceptual Plan for The Domain. Notice the tall 25-30 floor tower in the center, and the existing retail center along Mopac, on the right-hand side of the image

From Nelsen Partner's website...
http://www.nelsenpartners.com/

http://images21.fotki.com/v755/photos/5/54967/2949615/Domain_ConceptualPlan-vi.jpg

Site Plan... Existing Domain retail complex at the bottom center, along Mopac, and the aforementioned IBM building at the top-right corner (light red):

http://images22.fotki.com/v754/photos/5/54967/2949615/Domain_ConceptualSiteplan-vi.jpg

[MichaelB]

I'm with MichaelB on the difference between a downtown and a retail destination. Apartments are as transient as the shoppers who come in by day and leave for their homes (neighborhoods) at night.

One of my major issues with the Domain is that it is a master plan. Very few "downtowns" were built in this way. The master plan is still synonymous with mall culture, even if the mall has been turned inside out and people pushed to the streets. Without a critical mass of homeownership in this area (which may actually happen) and the fragmentation of retail ownership (which won't) the Doman will never become a downtown.

Downtowns are both smooth and rough. They have shining facades and dark alleyways. They have crumbling edges and polished fronts. Some landowners are slumlords and others becons of civility.

Culture needs room to grow; a chance to make mistakes; a chance to express itself. It doesn't need building standards implemented by a master developer. A downtown has to have dicotomy to be reflective of the human condition - nobody is perfect so why do we seek utopian ideals in our building practices?

Good intentions or not, master planners fail to understand the subconscious importance of the seedy, smelly, dirty underbelly of a downtown. For them, the safe route is to seek profits from all gloss and no soul. Hummers. Lattes. Boob jobs. Jesus...

NO.... I agree with you. I think of That area as "Downtown Disney".,,, and that is fine for many folks. Truly. But it's like thinking you're really a rock star when it's only Karaoke. ( Or thinking it's "kerry-okey" when it is really Karaoke!) Just be honest about what it is.

And speaking of Jesus..... "God" forbid they actually develope a homeless population!

[Saddle Man]

There will never be a homeless population, because it's all private property. That's why it could never truely be a 'second downtown'. When the streets in the domain are maintained by the city of Austin, then it could possibly be a 'second downtown'. But never if the streets remain private property.

[michobq]

While we are on this topic, pardon me if this is a stupid question, but where is what is considered uptown and midtown Austin. I think I had heard that the University of Texas area was the "midtown" area, but no talk of an uptown. Why would Austin call it a 2nd downtown? Is uptown and the Med Center in Houston considered 2nd and 3rd downtowns as well because they have high- and mid-rise buildings and areas of retail?

[MichaelB]

There will never be a homeless population, because it's all private property. That's why it could never truely be a 'second downtown'. When the streets in the domain are maintained by the city of Austin, then it could possibly be a 'second downtown'. But never if the streets remain private property.

ah, good point.... again

[MichaelB]

While we are on this topic, pardon me if this is a stupid question, but where is what is considered uptown and midtown Austin. I think I had heard that the University of Texas area was the "midtown" area, but no talk of an uptown. Why would Austin call it a 2nd downtown? Is uptown and the Med Center in Houston considered 2nd and 3rd downtowns as well because they have high- and mid-rise buildings and areas of retail?

Yeah, I live there (here) and I'm not sure. I have heard the area from the Capitol to UT refered as both Uptown and Midtown..... I usually call it midtown ..... but there doesn't seem to be any one consistant term. Technically, I believe (oh, gods of the forum correct me in my doubt) that up to MLK is considered the CBD. ( I know my taxes think we are!) I have also heard many folks call the area between downtown and UT the "Capitol complex".

I'll stick with Midtown.

It is...... complex. Somebody tell me where I liveeeeeee!!!!!!!!

[Mopacs]

Yeah, I live there (here) and I'm not sure. I have heard the area from the Capitol to UT refered as both Uptown and Midtown..... I usually call it midtown ..... but there doesn't seem to be any one consistant term. Technically, I believe (oh, gods of the forum correct me in my doubt) that up to MLK is considered the CBD. ( I know my taxes think we are!) I have also heard many folks call the area between downtown and UT the "Capitol complex".

I'll stick with Midtown.

It is...... complex. Somebody tell me where I liveeeeeee!!!!!!!!

Thats funny... I don't think there has ever been an agreed-upon label for areas north of the CBD. The terms midtown and uptown have been thrown around randomly for various areas of central and north-central Austin. For instance, I have heard many refer to the state Health and Human Services complex and "Triangle" area as midtown (centered around the confluence of Guadalupe and Lamar)... and some have referred to the urbanizing Burnet Road corridor as " Uptown" (and a few call it midtown!). I guess it could be worse....downtown Charlotte is referred to as "uptown Charlotte" by the locals. I'm sure there's a reason, but for the tourist I found it a bit perplexing :koko: :koko:

[Mopacs]

As for the Domain, I think rad707 makes a good point in reference to "fragmentation of retail ownership." As discussed earlier, the whole of the complex is owned by only 1 or 2 entities. No 'town center' developed by Simon properties will ever be a 'true' downtown (especially at street-level). In time, as (or if) lots are sold off to various groups, then you will find more variety in the individual developments , instead of a strictly 'Disney' facade.

I think we're all (including myself) getting caught up in the semantics of 'downtown'... I envision The Domain developing along the lines of an Atlantic Station (Atlanta), somewhere between a 'traditional' downtown, and a Las Colinas.

[Mopacs]

The aforementioned example of Atlantic Station, in Atlanta, GA.... a former brownfield (steel mill) site. Not exactly another downtown Atlanta, but not half bad either:

http://www.atlanticstation.com

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/05/24/business/24atlantic.xlarge1.jpg

http://www.raisethehammer.org/images/atlantic_station_01.jpg

http://www.raisethehammer.org/images/atlantic_station_02.jpg

http://www.raisethehammer.org/images/atlantic_station_commons_park.jpg

Now this would be nice... a real Grocery store (hell, the 'first' downtown Austin could use one too!):
http://www.raisethehammer.org/images/atlantic_station_03.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g130/bzorch/atlantic_station1.jpg

http://www.raisethehammer.org/images/atlantic_station_map_sm.jpg

40+ story Novare condo tower on the way (Atlantic Residences):

http://www.novaregroup.com/images/portfolio/atlantic.jpg

Photos from: http://www.raisethehammer.org/index.asp?id=305
Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Station

[GoldenBoot]

As for the Domain, I think rad707 makes a good point in reference to "fragmentation of retail ownership." As discussed earlier, the whole of the complex is owned by only 1 or 2 entities. No 'town center' developed by Simon properties will ever be a 'true' downtown (especially at street-level). In time, as (or if) lots are sold off to various groups, then you will find more variety in the individual developments , instead of a strictly 'Disney' facade.

I think we're all (including myself) getting caught up in the semantics of 'downtown'... I envision The Domain developing along the lines of an Atlantic Station (Atlanta), somewhere between a 'traditional' downtown, and a Las Colinas.


I agree... But, there's another thing we're forgetting here. This whole "second downtown" concept pertains to the entire Gateway/N. Burnet planning area; in which The Domain project makes up slightly less than 10% of the total area. It seems to me that some forumers are viewing The Domain as Austin's "second downtown." Which is not the case.

Furthermore, the initial rezoning of The Domain’s phase II has yet to be finalized; let alone the remaining 2,000 acres in the planning area. At the outset, The Domain is going to be limiting the height of its buildings to 308’. However, in the years to come, a taller building could come along in either The Domain or in another section of the planning area.

[southsideatx04]

I agree... But, there's another thing we're forgetting here. This whole "second downtown" concept pertains to the entire Gateway/N. Burnet planning area; in which The Domain project makes up slightly less than 10% of the total area. It seems to me that some forumers are viewing The Domain as Austin's "second downtown." Which is not the case.

Furthermore, the initial rezoning of The Domain’s phase II has yet to be finalized; let alone the remaining 2,000 acres in the planning area. At the outset, The Domain is going to be limiting the height of its buildings to 308’. However, in the years to come, a taller building could come along in either The Domain or in another section of the planning area.

Your are right Goldenboot plus I don't like the term 2nd downtown. I don't think it makes much sense to call a place a 2nd downtown a city should only have one downtown, call it uptown or mid-town. The soon-to-be vacant Concordia area what about that. Screw the domain concentrate the growth in the the public area not private companies.

[TDoss]

Your are right Goldenboot plus I don't like the term 2nd downtown. I don't think it makes much sense to call a place a 2nd downtown a city should only have one downtown, call it uptown or mid-town. The soon-to-be vacant Concordia area what about that. Screw the domain concentrate the growth in the the public area not private companies.

This whole thread is strange to me. I feel like the developers of this visionary project are catching flack.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that the area of "The Domain" - WAS/IS a very ratty industrial warehouse area.


I think some of the criticisms are not very well thought out. I am tickled pink with the projects that are moving forward in an otherwise unliveable part of town.

[Mopacs]

This whole thread is strange to me. I feel like the developers of this visionary project are catching flack.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that the area of "The Domain" - WAS/IS a very ratty industrial warehouse area.


I think some of the criticisms are not very well thought out. I am tickled pink with the projects that are moving forward in an otherwise unliveable part of town.

I agree, this is making great use out of an area of town that is far from aesthetically pleasing. In a city where large scale developments face frequent neighborhood opposition, the Burnet/Gateway planning area presents a unique opportunity that is largely immune from such forces. The area also encompasses the large swaths of industrial/warehouse complexes between Burnet and Metric. I'm sure a good chunk of that will see redevelopment over the next 10-20 years.

[Mopacs]

On another note... what are the long-term prospects for the Arboretum Crossing shopping center (anchored by Dave & Busters)? I've always found that to be somewhat of an awkward location for a retail center, due to limited visibility and access from the freeways. The center has lost at least 4 anchors over the past few years, two of which moved across the street to Simon's Arbor Walk (circuit city and DSW). The adjacent Gateway Shopping center would seem fine for now, but I also wonder about its long-term prospects.

[TDoss]

On another note... what are the long-term prospects for the Arboretum Crossing shopping center (anchored by Dave & Busters)? I've always found that to be somewhat of an awkward location for a retail center, due to limited visibility and access from the freeways. The center has lost at least 4 anchors over the past few years, two of which moved across the street to Simon's Arbor Walk (circuit city and DSW). The adjacent Gateway Shopping center would seem fine for now, but I also wonder about its long-term prospects.

Long-term it is still fundamentally good real estate. Although it has some visibility issues, it is still at the intersection of 2 freeways and the demos are superb.
There are lots and lots of retailers that haven't even entered the market yet. And with Austin's retail occupancy at 95%- Big Box retailers don't have as many choices on where they can go as you think. I would be willing to bet that there will be LOI's working on the Circuit city and DSW spaces soon (if there aren't already)

[southsideatx04]

This whole thread is strange to me. I feel like the developers of this visionary project are catching flack.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that the area of "The Domain" - WAS/IS a very ratty industrial warehouse area.


I think some of the criticisms are not very well thought out. I am tickled pink with the projects that are moving forward in an otherwise unliveable part of town.

It does matter when the only way to access these artifical areas is to have the availabile resources such as the automobile and mainly the money. These areas are excluding a large portion of the population of Austin.

[Mikey711MN]

It does matter when the only way to access these artifical areas is to have the availabile resources such as the automobile and mainly the money. These areas are excluding a large portion of the population of Austin.

Have you even bothered to look at the North Burnet/Gateway redevelopment website? The whole point of it is to tie together land-use and transportation planning, which includes elements such as commuter rail, pedestrian/bicycle accommodation, bus system integration, and even streetcars.

[Mopacs]

Long-term it is still fundamentally good real estate. Although it has some visibility issues, it is still at the intersection of 2 freeways and the demos are superb.
There are lots and lots of retailers that haven't even entered the market yet. And with Austin's retail occupancy at 95%- Big Box retailers don't have as many choices on where they can go as you think. I would be willing to bet that there will be LOI's working on the Circuit city and DSW spaces soon (if there aren't already)

Thats good to hear... we do have a very strong retail market, and the Arboretum submarket has always been very desireable. Speaking of, is Target still on track to occupy the former Home Depot (Great Hills/183)? Nothing much seems to be happening at this time.

Ok, this is going off topic..Are there any prospects for the 12+ former Albertsons? I only know of one that has been filled (Fiesta Mart at 35/Stassney). I wonder if Ross snatched up any of the stores?

[Mopacs]

Have you even bothered to look at the North Burnet/Gateway redevelopment website? The whole point of it is to tie together land-use and transportation planning, which includes elements such as commuter rail, pedestrian/bicycle accommodation, bus system integration, and even streetcars.

That is true... the city is playing a very active role in planning and redevelopment. As GoldenBoot mentioned, The Domain comprises a relatively small fraction of the planning area. If nothing else, the retail center can provide a jump-start and momentum toward the overall redevelopment process

[TDoss]

Thats good to hear... we do have a very strong retail market, and the Arboretum submarket has always been very desireable. Speaking of, is Target still on track to occupy the former Home Depot (Great Hills/183)? Nothing much seems to be happening at this time.

Ok, this is going off topic..Are there any prospects for the 12+ former Albertsons? I only know of one that has been filled (Fiesta Mart at 35/Stassney). I wonder if Ross snatched up any of the stores?

I too heard that there is a target deal working at the former Homedepot.

Regarding Albertsons - I have heard a rumor that there is a Grocer looking to take 10 of the stores.(don't know who it is) More power to them.
I know I wouldn't want to go head-to-head with the 400LB Gorilla that is HEB.

[Mikey711MN]

From an email received...


We hope to see you tomorrow morning for a presentation of the North
Burnet/Gateway Draft Plan.





North Burnet/Gateway Draft Plan Presents a Vision for Redevelopment



The City of Austin Neighborhood Planning and Zoning Department invites
you to a community meeting to learn about the North Burnet/Gateway Draft
Plan and share your comments on the plan. The North Burnet/Gateway area
is in North Central Austin, bordered by Hwy. 183 to the south and
southwest, Metric Blvd. to the east and Hwy. 183/Braker Lane/MoPac (Loop
1) to the west.



Presentation of the North Burnet/Gateway Draft Plan

Saturday, March 24, 2007, 9:00 am - 11:00 am

ACC Northridge Campus

11928 Stonehollow Drive, Austin, TX

Bldg. 4000, Lecture Hall Room 4136



The Draft Plan presents a long-term vision for the area to redevelop the
low-density auto-oriented commercial and industrial uses into a higher
density mixed-use neighborhood that is more pedestrian-friendly and
takes advantage of the links to future rail transit. The plan will
serve as a framework for infrastructure improvements and changes to
zoning that will guide future development. A preview of the March 24th
Draft Plan presentation is available on the web at:
www.ci.austin.tx.us/zoning/north_burnet.htm. A map of the North
Burnet/Gateway planning area and a map of the ACC Northridge campus are
also available on the web.



For more information about the North Burnet/Gateway Draft Plan or the
March 24th meeting, contact Molly Scarbrough at the phone number or
email listed below.



Thanks,



Molly Scarbrough

Senior Planner

City of Austin, Neighborhood

Planning & Zoning Department



505 Barton Springs Road

Austin, TX 78704

Tel: 512-974-3515

Fax: 512-974-6054

Email: molly.scarbrough@ci.austin.tx.us

[Boris]

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http://www.impactnewspaper.com/www/docs/195.1484


http://www.impactnewspaper.com/images/photos/gateway.jpg

[M1EK]

Have you even bothered to look at the North Burnet/Gateway redevelopment website? The whole point of it is to tie together land-use and transportation planning, which includes elements such as commuter rail, pedestrian/bicycle accommodation, bus system integration, and even streetcars.

I crackplogged about this aspect, titled "The Great Interconnections Lie" (http://mdahmus.monkeysystems.com/blog/archives/000401.html). In short, circulators are a huge disincentive for choice commuters; and a plan that relies on them to carry a non-trivial amount of the load is doomed to failure.

[southsideatx04]

That is true... the city is playing a very active role in planning and redevelopment. As GoldenBoot mentioned, The Domain comprises a relatively small fraction of the planning area. If nothing else, the retail center can provide a jump-start and momentum toward the overall redevelopment process

Do you think that the neighborhoods and the people reflect the development or does the development reflect the neighborhoods and the people?

[TDoss]

Do you think that the neighborhoods and the people reflect the development or does the development reflect the neighborhoods and the people?

I think that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I bet if you were to survey the people who work and live in the Domain, they would probably tell you how much they love the neighborhood and it's amenities.

Southsidetx04 - Do you think that you are stretching here looking for a problem which doesn't exist????

Would I personally want to live in the Domain?? - NO - But that is MY choice.
The same way it is the choice of the people who live in the Domain neighborhood.

I can tell you from experience that leasing is no cakewalk!!!! If there isn't a demand for people to live in the Domain neighborhood - then they will fall on their ass.

Again- Do not lose sight of the fact that where the Domain sits Was/Is a ratty industrial office warehouse area. I am glad that Simon, Endeavor, etc.. are stepping up to create a quality development.

[southsideatx04]

I think that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I bet if you were to survey the people who work and live in the Domain, they would probably tell you how much they love the neighborhood and it's amenities.

Southsidetx04 - Do you think that you are stretching here looking for a problem which doesn't exist????

Would I personally want to live in the Domain?? - NO - But that is MY choice.

The same way it is the choice of the people who live in the Domain neighborhood.

I can tell you from experience that leasing is no cakewalk!!!! If there isn't a demand for people to live in the Domain neighborhood - then they will fall on their ass.

Again- Do not lose sight of the fact that where the Domain sits Was/Is a ratty industrial office warehouse area. I am glad that Simon, Endeavor, etc.. are stepping up to create a quality development.

The look of the Domain "reminds" me of Disney World the way its built around looking real or feeling real but in reality everything is fake and at the end they really just want you to buy their stuff.

Are you saying the only people that matter is the people that can afford to shop and live there?
In terms of the Domain and the Domain itself, A quote from James Howard Kunstler " The true public realm then, for the sake of argument, is that portion of our everyday world which belongs to everybody and to which everybody would to have equal access most of the time. The public realm is therefore a set of real places possessing physical form".

[Lextx97]

The look of the Domain "reminds" me of Disney World the way its built around looking real or feeling real but in reality everything is fake and at the end they really just want you to buy their stuff.

Are you saying the only people that matter is the people that can afford to shop and live there? . . .I agree with TDoss. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some people may prefer living and hanging out in places far remote from what the Domain offers, and some people prefer "Disney World." And . . . so what? Does it bother people that much that a place like the Domain exists? It serves it purpose for the people that like it. Those that don't like need not visit it. And, duh, of course in the end they really just want you to buy their stuff. Otherwise, what's the point in its development? There are plenty of "real" places left in Austin that all of us can enjoy as well. Or, are you saying that Austinites have to choose between "Disney World" or the "real world"?

[rad707]

Or, are you saying that Austinites have to choose between "Disney World" or the "real world"?

Perhaps some clarity from a South Austinite could help here.

Austin doesn't extend beyond Anderson. Anything further north is Dallas.

Everyone down here knows that.

[Mopacs]

Perhaps some clarity from a South Austinite could help here.

Austin doesn't extend beyond Anderson. Anything further north is Dallas.

Everyone down here knows that.

In the case of the Arboretum and Domain districts, I would definitely agree.. Yuppie districts ..vs.. Quintessential Austin. But as I've stated, I like The Domain and what it has to offer. Time will tell what happens, but for now, whats built is an upscale mall in the form of a town center. It serves its purpose.

[Lextx97]

Perhaps some clarity from a South Austinite could help here.

Austin doesn't extend beyond Anderson. Anything further north is Dallas.

Everyone down here knows that.Yeah, I kinda understood where he was going, my sarcasm was weak without emoticons. [missing winky emoticon] I lived on William Cannon 20 years ago when it was considered "North San Antonio" and when North and South Austinites were stilling having the tug-of-war contests at town lake with wine (north) and Lone Star beer (south). I still get a chuckle when I hear "Hell, I don't go north of the river." Still, fact of the matter is that Austin has developed beyond these artificial city limits. People need to accept it and move on.

There's "disney world" development in South Dallas that can be enjoyed and there's also the "real" development in North San Antonio at Slaughter and I-35 that can be enjoyed. There, now we can all be happy. :D

[KevinFromTexas]

Perhaps some clarity from a South Austinite could help here.

Austin doesn't extend beyond Anderson. Anything further north is Dallas.

Everyone down here knows that.

Hear, hear.

North Austin - yuppies.
South Austin - hippies, myself included :haha:

I kid, I kid. North Austin is fine, and South Austin has started getting more "North Austinesque" developments lately. While I am in the camp of the old Austinites, (born and raised in South Austin), and proud of it, I'm totally cool with more development, even modern stuff. ;) I really just hope that whatever does come along is good quality stuff and affordable to people.

and when North and South Austinites were stilling having the tug-of-war contests at town lake with wine (north) and Lone Star beer (south).

Yuck to both of those, but do pour a tall glass of whatever foreign beer you have. Particularly English or German if you have it. :)

[Boris]

born and raised in South Austin

I thought you were born in SA?

[KevinFromTexas]

Heh, I was. I don't know why I said that. :koko:

My folks had a family friend who was a doctor so they went to San Antonio to have me. I've always been proud of the fact that I was born there. I feel like having been born in San Antonio and growing up in Austin and calling it home, two of the most important cities in Texas history, that it's made me love Texas even more. That's also why I can't stand the fueds between Austin and San Antonio whenever they come up. I don't want to take sides.

[Boris]

Haha, can't get an inconsistency past an attorney.

[Mopacs]

Extensive article from this month's NW Austin Community Impact newspaper. Includes interesting rendering of North Burnet Rd, near 183:

http://www.impactnewspaper.com/www/docs/226.1576

New zoning increases density

North Austin neighborhood target of growth
By Rachel Youens


http://www.impactnewspaper.com/images/photos/NWA_APR/Picture_1.png

In the next 20 years, the Austin population will nearly double in size, and those 1.5 million people are all going to need a place to live. Since the Austin city limits aren’t getting any bigger, city officials recognize their only choices are to grow taller and denser, and their eyes are set on Northwest Austin for a bold style of zoning that could put 20-story buildings along the streets you drive every day.

This 2,300 square acre area, known as the North Burnet/Gateway Neighborhood Planning Area, is bordered by Metric Boulevard to the east, MoPac to the west and US 183 to the south.

“The North Burnet/Gateway neighborhood is a huge area the size of downtown, the state office complex and UT planning areas combined,” Planning and Zoning Director Molly Scarbrough said. “It’s also an area where two rail lines come into pretty close proximity, half a mile to a mile of one another. There are really only two other areas in Austin where that happens.”


Neighborhood planning

Since 1996, the city has used the neighborhood planning process to take input from residents and developers in creating zoning, land use maps and building standards. The neighborhood plan is then reviewed by the planning commission and adopted by the city council as an amendment to the city plan.


The planning for the North Burnet/Gateway neighborhood, technically two neighborhoods lumped together, began in February 2002. For most neighborhood plans, the process is small and starts with community input and ends with simple zoning. For North Burnet/Gateway, the planning and zoning department saw the unique public transit, land and road features of the area and decided to do something bigger. They hired a consulting firm to look at the viability of the neighborhood being redeveloped to shoulder Austin’s growth.

This neighborhood is larger than any other in the city, but besides simply size and transportation access, planning and zoning has a number of reasons it has chosen this area for what one consultant calls a “second downtown.”

All the right elements

The North Burnet/Gateway neighborhood uses the term “neighborhood” lightly. The area holds commercial developments such as the Arboretum and Gateway shopping centers, and industrial areas like IBM and UT’s Pickle Research campus, but no single-family residences, only apartments.

The 2000 census showed 4,800 residents, an extremely low population density compared to other neighborhoods such as the North Austin Civic Association neighborhood, the one closest to North Burnet/ Gateway, with 22,000 residents. This means development there is less likely to disturb existing homeowners.

The bulk of North Burnet/Gateway also lies just outside the Edwards Aquifer Recharge zone, making it less
environmentally sensitive. For a well developed area, this neighborhood still has a large amount of vacant land and publicly-held land that serve as ideal catalyst sites for introducing a new style of development.

A new type of zoning for north Austin

After a community vision meeting in July 2006, the consultants took residents’ suggestions and went to the drawing board. When they presented their draft plans to the public March 24, renderings showed tall buildings, townhouses and mixed-use developments similar to the Domain.

The Domain has become a test case for what planning and zoning wants to do with the area, but while mixed-use may be the wave of the future, it is plagued by outdated zoning laws.

“The Domain case is interesting because they came in and they had to jump through a lot of hoops to do the kind of development that they’re doing. The zoning system isn’t set up for that, and we haven’t made it easy for them,” Scarbrough said. “Even though we as a community are supporting this kind of development, our rules and regulations were created in the past without this type of development in mind.”

Consequently, this neighborhood plan will be the first in north Austin to use a zoning overlay, a type of zoning more commonly used in areas such as Town Lake and the Capitol building.

“A zoning overlay creates a sense of place. There’s a vision to a particular area that we’re trying to achieve,” Neighborhood Planning and Zoning Department Director Greg Guernsey said. “In the University neighborhoods of West Campus, a zoning overlay allowed higher buildings. In some respects that’s kind of what’s being suggested here.”

Unlike traditional zoning, where a specific purpose is assigned to a specific piece of property such as residential or commercial, the zoning overlay allows multiple uses to exist simultaneously and assigns general zoning subdistricts over large areas.

“What we’re trying to do is create the type of regulatory environments to facilitate [the Domain’s] type of development without everyone jumping through the hoops,” Scarbrough said.

Neighborhood concerns

While the North Burnet/Gateway Neighborhood has no single-family homes, the outlying areas are filled with residential neighborhoods.

“The area would benefit from zone overlay and there are a lot of positives to the plan. But my neighborhood’s concern is when you put in a zone overlay where you could add tens of thousands of people, you need to consider traffic impact not just within the boundaries of the plan but on the people immediately outside the plan as well,” said Milwood Neighborhood Association president Dustin Lanier. “What happens to the Duval exit [impacts the] quality of life in Milwood.”

The draft does include some new road construction and offsets the high density with strict building codes requiring tall buildings to be set back allowing light into the street. Construction over a certain height would require developers to contribute to greenspace or drainage.

“The thought of bringing potentially 80,000 new residents in this area in 30 years is scary,” Scarbrough said. “But the key here is a) in thirty years and b) the regulatory framework that we’re creating could accommodate that. It doesn’t mean that every building is going to be 20 stories, most likely they’re not.”

While Lanier is a supporter of public transportation and dense living, he wants to make sure that the quality of life in the city doesn’t compromise the quality of life in his neighborhood.

“If Duval Road is not well planned, and is set up to be one of the main mouths to the “second downtown,” it will reduce the value of our properties, and raise the daily agitation level of everyone trying to get home,” Lanier said.

“Conversely, if it is planned for, and we can still get home without waiting and waiting, we have a lot to look forward to in what the Domain and North Burnet/Gateway will bring.”

---------------------------------------------

EDIT: Link to full PDF April edition of above Community Impact Newspaper. Includes addtional materials/graphics

http://www.impactnewspaper.com/images/user/NWA%20March%201-20.pdf

[Mopacs]

Associated Blog from Blogspot.com, via Community Impact NP

http://www.northburnetgateway.blogspot.com/

Wednesday, April 25, 2007

Interview: Molly Scarbrough (http://northburnetgateway.blogspot.com/2007/04/interview-molly-scarbrough.html)

Molly Scarbrough a senior planner with the city's Neighborhood Planning and Zoning Department, heading up the North Burnet/Gateway plan.

Contact Molly at:
molly.scarbrough@ci.austin.tx.us
(512) 974-3515

What is the North Burnet Gateway redevelopment in short?
A plan to redevelop a lot of the existing light industrial warehouse and retail uses in the area now into a more vibrant mixed-use neighborhood. The plan really seems to accommodate a lot more residents in the area and particularly because our region is expected to double in population in the next twenty years. This plan hopes to capture, or at least accommodate, that growth in a much more urban, mixed-use fashion.

Why here and why now?
Why now, we’re expecting pop to double in twenty years, so the city is faced with that in general and why here because it’s an area that’s served by potentially two future passenger rail lines the first being the capital metro rail line, which will open in 2008, a commuter rail from Leander to downtown and then potentially also an Austin San Antonio commuter rail. Now that rail isn’t funded yet but a lot of people are talking about planning for it in the future. This area is an area where those two rail lines come into pretty close proximity, half a mile to a mile of one another, and there are really only two other areas of Austin where that happens and that is near downtown where the rail line goes to Seaholm, and the rail line goes to the convention center. And the other is at the Robbinson ranch area. So it’s a good place to capitalize on that, and the potential circulator transit which sort of spurs of that which capital metro will use to get people to and from he stations. Not only will we have the rail lines we’ll also have rapid bus lines running through the area.

Secondly it currently has no single-family residence in it, it’s a huge area the size of downtown Austin, the state office complex and UT combined. It’s a pretty huge area that doesn’t accommodate almost any resident at all, a few apartment complexes.

Are the people living in these dense housing developments likely to be single people and retiring couples?
Honestly at first that would probably be true just because of the market and it’s just a new type of development in this area. I believe that over time that’s going to change. The reason I saw “at first it’s going to be like that” is because it’s part of the Austin mentality that if you have a family with children, you want a single family house, I think that mentality is going to take a while to shift. So I don’t think it’s that it can’t be accommodated, I don’t know that the market is there now, however our plan encourages and I think there are several places for town homes, residential uses, things that are a little more dense. Mixed use but maybe a little more family oriented. As Austin grows and people begin thinking about Austin in a more urban fashion I think the demand for that kind of housing is going to increase.

UT stand out from the rest of the development like an island. What will become of this land?
So UT owns the main Pickle research campus, the shops at arbor walk and they also own this western tract. That’s mostly vacant right now, the MCC building is there.

We’ve had a lot of discussions with UT through this plan, asking them what they want to do with that land, and they really don’t know. Because they don’t know and don’t’ have a real solid plan for the area at this time they don’t want to commit to any plans through our planning process. What we were able to uncover in the planning process is that most likely in the future the main pickle campus will remain for UT purposes. That seems pretty set, nothing is set in stone, but it seems pretty certain that this area will not be opened up for private development. Obviously the shops at arbor walk have opened for private dev and the western tract was one of those that they didn’t really have plans for yet and they were hesitant to commit it to our planning process and they wanted to make it clear that they don’t have any plans to redevelop it at this time, but it seems a little more likely that that’s in the realm of possibility for that. Before they make any plans it has to go through their board of regents, facilities management team, etc. etc. So there’s no plans for that now, but just like they sold off the shops at Arbor Walk it has potential to do that, so we wanted ot have a plan in place in case they did. UT had a master plan made a few years ago and it was never adopted, it was really an exciting plan because it was a much more urban environment.

Even with these rail lines going through there’s still not a direct connection between this campus and the other. Although a walk from the rail station to the edge of the pickle campus will would be about 15 minutes, there will be buses that connect that station to the campus and that will connect the two campuses.

How has the Domain project influenced the North Burnet/Gateway project?
For us the Domain has been a nice market reality, because they are seeing demands for office, for high-rise residential, for commercial retail. It’s kind of nice because a lot of times we plan things and hope we’re planning it right. The Domain case is interesting because they came in and they had to jump through a lot of hoops to do the kind of development that they’re doing, the zoning system isn’t set up for that. They were able to do it because they have a really large piece of land, and well established developers that know the system in and out and have been able to finagle their way through our system, which we haven’t made it easy for them even though we as a community are supporting this kind of development it’s just that our rules and regulations were developed in the past without this in mind.

What we’re trying to do is create the type of regulatory environments to facilitate that type of development without everyone jumping through the hoops so that you get smaller developers and property owners who an do this kind of development that can do it without having to hire a law firm just to get through the zoning system.

What reaction are you hearing from the community?
We’re getting a wide range of reaction, some people very supportive because they support the idea of accommodating growth, recognizing that the city can’t keep sprawling out and that we need to start densifying in areas and this is a good place to do it. Because there are no single family residences and some natural and unnatural buffers around the area created by the highways and the creeks other commercial industrial projects. A lot of people say ‘you know we’ve got to accommodate growth’, this is a good place to do it without disrupting single-family residential neighborhoods. We get a lot of support for that, then we have some people concerned about traffic, we have some existing business owners in the area worried what zoning changes will mean to them, regardless of zoning changes the city has an overall non-conforming use policy which means that if you have existing biz and you stay in same building footprint and don’t make any major changes you can stay in the same business from here on out no matter how zoning changes. No one is getting pushed out. Really effects redevelopment as things change over time.

A lot of people excited about creating a neighborhood in this area because it really not a neighborhood now, parks and open space, industrial land that has been largely ignored the environment and trying to uncover it again. It’s not going to go back to a completely natural state, that’s not the point of this plan, but in bringing in urban development and new business parks and open space are going to be key.

Can you explain the idea of the Gateway shopping center build-out your consultants developed?
Consultants did a really interesting study, the study showed that you could leave the existing buildings where they are, take the surface parking and replace it with structured parking garages at key locations, you could infill development and it’s got a pretty good potential street network already built in. You could infill residential development here and then leave the existing buildings where they are. Then over time as the life of the buildings expires after ten or fifteen years, development can slowly grow higher.

It was an interesting study because a lot of people see this area and they say ;oh but it’s already built out’ but the fact is Home Depot has moved across MoPac, DSW has moved across MoPac, whole foods is going to move across MoPac. By no means is Gateway in a decline, I don’t want to imply tat at all, but the fact is that things change over time and people are appealed by the new domain development, and shops find it more appealing too. So it amy be that the owners of Gateway say “hey, how can we do this” and there a way to do it without reconstructing, extensively, what’s there already.

What would you like people to know about the North/Burnet Gateway plan?
What people are concerned about, and I think it might be over-inflated concern, is traffic, you will always hear that at planning meetings. Because the thought of bringing potentially 80,000 new residents in this area in 30 years. The key here is a) in 30 years and b) is the regulatory framework that we’re creating could accommodate that, it doesn’t mean that every building is going to be twenty stories most likely it’s not. You see downtown where there is no height limit right now and you see a total mix of heights of buildings and that’s just how things evolve over time.

I don’t want people to be too scared by that number but the other thing is that the traffic, yes there will be more people here they’ll also have much greater access to transit, they’ll be able to walk to places instead of getting in their car instead of everyone funneling into the street. There will be some attraction for people to come to this area, but I don’t know if it’s going to be that much greater than what is already here. People are already coming to gateway shopping center, they’re already coming to the Domain.

We’re not proposing Disney world here, people will be attracted to live and work in this area, but it’s not going to be every development as a huge retail destination. Yes some people will want to drive to the Domain and they’ll want to drive to work, but is there are a reason for them to drive through these neighborhoods to get somewhere else: probably not. So there will be a little increase in traffic, like on Duval and Braker, but I don’t anticipate a whole 80,000 people are going to flood the residential neighborhood. The numbers seem scary but if you think about traffic patterns people trying to get from one destination to another, I don’t anticipate that throughway (in neighborhoods) as much as people fear.



Posted by ImpactNews at 2:26 PM (http://northburnetgateway.blogspot.com/2007/04/interview-molly-scarbrough.html) 1 comments (http://www2.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=5162078162326171347&postID=3987636413975964184)

[Mopacs]

And another, from March '07

http://www.northburnetgateway.blogspot.com/

Wednesday, March 28, 2007

What is the North Burnet Gateway Redevelopment? (http://northburnetgateway.blogspot.com/2007/03/what-is-north-burnet-gateway.html)


http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u305/impactnews/Picture3.png
WHAT:
The City of Austin is planning to rezone and set the bar for a new type of mixed-use growth in this North Austin area of town that would possibly turn it into a high-rise, metropolitan district.The North Burnet Gateway neighborhood district is larger than both the Robert Mueller redevelopment (http://www.muelleraustin.com/) and the Downtown Central Business district (http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/downtown/). Through rezoning and transportation planning the city hopes to eventually turn this area into a pedestrian friendly transit oriented development that would incorporate 30-story buildings right next to bike paths.

WHERE:
The North Burnet Gateway Planning Area is located in the north part of Austin's Urban Core. The boundaries for the planning area are Walnut Creek on the north, Metric Boulevard on the east, US 183 (Research Boulevard) on the south and west, and Loop 1 (Mopac) on the west.

WHY:
This 2,300 acre area of North Austin originated as an industrial district that was home to IBM (http://www.impactnews.com/www/docs/211.1463), The University of Texas' JJ Pickle research facility and other large business developments. Over time shopping centers such as Gateway and the Aboretum have helped the area grow to support retail as well as office. With a unique location along MoPac, US 183 and Braker Lane and a future stop of the MetroRail (http://www.impactnews.com/www/docs/195.1464) commuter line the North Burnet Gateway stands to become a major transit hub. This area of town is also far less ecologically sensitive and is primarily outside of the Edwards Aquifer Recharge Zone.

HOW:
Last summer the neighborhood planning and zoning department took community input during a week-long workshop. They used this input along with help from consultants to create a draft plan that includes zoning, subdistricts, road projects and areas targeted for development. The city presented this draft to citizens March 24 for feedback at a public meeting which all businesses and homeowners in the affected area were invited to. The city is still taking feedback (http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=892293549110) until April 14. The next step is for the plan to be completed and then submitted to the city's boards and subcommittees before adoption by the city council.

WHO:
The City of Austin has hired Carter+Burgess as the prime consultant for the North Burnet/Gateway Plan. The Carter+Burgess (http://www.c-b.com/) team includes Land Design Studio, HDR Engineering, WHM Transportation Engineering, GMSA Management, Estilo Communications, and Raymond Chan & Associates.

WHEN:
Most of the plan's initiatives aim to take effect over the next 20 to 30 years.




Posted by ImpactNews at 1:06 PM (http://northburnetgateway.blogspot.com/2007/03/what-is-north-burnet-gateway.html) 0 comments (http://www2.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=5162078162326171347&postID=4971422314224607519)

[Mopacs]

Pardon my flood of posts, but here is a supplemental graphic, captured from the PDF version of the aforementioned article:

http://www.impactnewspaper.com/images/user/NWA%20March%201-20.pdf

http://images5.fotki.com/v84/photos/5/54967/300796/IMpact_DomainGateway-vi.jpg

[sakyle04]

^ Wow.

[KevinFromTexas]

Oh my.

[rad707]

man, look at the size of that park system! that looks beautiful. i'm so glad to learn that this "new downtown" will have a civic center.

[Onward]

Wow what a great project, Can't wait to see it move along.

[austintilIdie]

The potential seems to be there. It could turn out to be an interesting sector. It will take some years before the grand vision is in place. But folks, the word of the day is 'fruition'.

[arbeiter]

Can anyone give me details about this NW Impact magazine? It seems pretty thoughtful and decently put together. Usually Austin's suburban publications are either highly amateur or highly conservative/reactionary/Christian. Has anyone from NW Austin ever read "The Good Time News" or whatever? My high school newspaper looked like the Manchester Guardian compared to that piece of fundamentalist clip art trash.

Ironically, on page 9, there is an article about the Rutledge family. That's my surname, Rutledge, but I am unrelated to this specific branch, as I am first generation American. There is or was a road on 620 called Rutledge Spur that we always used to laugh about. Small world.

[Jdawgboy]

I love it...:banana:

[JRCool]

Does anyone know if there is a completion date for the Westin hotel?

[RobDSM]

Can anyone give me details about this NW Impact magazine? It seems pretty thoughtful and decently put together. Usually Austin's suburban publications are either highly amateur or highly conservative/reactionary/Christian. Has anyone from NW Austin ever read "The Good Time News" or whatever? My high school newspaper looked like the Manchester Guardian compared to that piece of fundamentalist clip art trash.

Ironically, on page 9, there is an article about the Rutledge family. That's my surname, Rutledge, but I am unrelated to this specific branch, as I am first generation American. There is or was a road on 620 called Rutledge Spur that we always used to laugh about. Small world.

It's a free local business report for NW Austin that comes out every month, for about the last 3 months I believe. It's mostly ads, but the content is pretty good, including some interesting non-business articles. I look forward to reading about the new business developments in it every month. Pretty high quality. There also appears to be Community Impact papers for Round Rock/Pflugerville and Cedar Park/Leander.

[Mopacs]

It's a free local business report for NW Austin that comes out every month, for about the last 3 months I believe. It's mostly ads, but the content is pretty good, including some interesting non-business articles. I look forward to reading about the new business developments in it every month. Pretty high quality. There also appears to be Community Impact papers for Round Rock/Pflugerville and Cedar Park/Leander.

Correct, it is delivered directly to residential mailboxes thoughout the Zip Codes serviced. I receive the Cedar Park/Leander edition here. The paper begain with its first edition (Round Rock/Pflugerville) in Fall 2005. To view back copies in PDF format for Round Rock, Cedar Park and NW AUstin editions:

http://www.impactnewspaper.com/www/docs/5/archives.htm

I personally look forward to this every month (comes mid-month here in CP/L)

[OhioGuy]

Looks pretty good as long as it has decently frequent rapid rail access to/from the real downtown Austin.

[Boris]

Here's a recent article on Austin's "Second Downtown"


...................................

Building Austin’s Future

Many anticipate that Endeavor Real Estate Group’s newest project will stimulate the creation of a second downtown in Texas’ capital city.
Lindsey Walker

When Austin, Texas-based Endeavor Real Estate Group purchased 230 acres in North Austin from IBM in 1999, the company had plans to demolish the existing manufacturing and service-center buildings and create a new, state-of-the-art office complex for dot-com companies. Due to the ensuing dot-com bust in March 2000, that strategy “quickly failed,” according to managing principal Kirk Rudy, and Endeavor had to figure out how to create value on the land. Their decision: a mixed-use community that could be a major catalyst for the creation of Austin’s second downtown.

http://www.texasrebusiness.com/articles/MAY07/feature8.html

[ATXboom]

Thanx for the post Boris!

I think this area will be great for business travellers right off the bat. The key will be geting the hotels built ASAP. Plenty of shopping and good food/drink there now. It is a very convenient location to get to major companies [Dell, IBM, National Instruments, Sematech, etc].

I can't see it being full of nightlife like downtown for many years - at least until there are a few thousand residents in there and rail established [next year!].

[Mopacs]

The 2nd phase of The Domain now has anchor tenants associated with it; Dillards (a 200,000 sq ft -3 story store, Austin's 5th), Dick's Sporting Goods (1st of 2 planned), an 8 screen theater and the aforementioned Westin Hotel. I'm assuming this is for the phase located to the south of the existing center? Here's an article from today's paper:

http://www.statesman.com/business/content/business/stories/other/05/19/19dillards.html


Dillard's to open fifth Austin store at Domain

Movie theater, Dick's Sporting Goods also moving into center.

By Shonda Novak, Lilly Rockwell
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Saturday, May 19, 2007

Central Texas is getting a fifth Dillard's store, as part of an expansion of the upscale Domain shopping center in North Austin.

The new part of the center, which is scheduled to open in the spring of 2009, will have a 200,000-square-foot, three-story Dillard's store, along with a Dick's Sporting Goods and also a movie theater with eight auditoriums.

Indianapolis-based Simon Property Group Inc. announced the tenants Friday.
The first part of the Domain, which opened in March, includes a Neiman Marcus, a Macy's and a variety of high-end retailers, plus office space and 390 luxury apartments that are integrated into the outdoor shopping center.

The new section is expected to encompass 300,000 square feet of shops and restaurants, 75,000 square feet of office space, 350 luxury apartments and a Westin hotel.
Dillard's Inc. has three stores in Central Texas: at Highland Mall, Barton Creek Mall and Lakeline Mall.

A fourth store will co-anchor the Hill Country Galleria shopping center in the Village of Bee Cave. That center is scheduled to open in September.
A news release from Simon says the store's design and merchandise will reflect the department store chain's "renewed focus on upscale and contemporary fashion."
Dillard's did not return calls Friday.

Jill Rowe, president of Rowe Investments, an Austin-based retail brokerage, said it's common to see a Dillard's near a Macy's.
"While they compete, the synergy complements one another also," Rowe said. "It will make the area an even more dominant trade area. "
Rowe said Dillard's has been aggressive in Central Texas, "positioning themselves as a leader in all of the dominant trade areas of Austin."

"I predict we will see additional expansion from them in the near future in the suburbs," she said. "The region can easily support the Domain store, as well as additional stores in outlying areas."
"The Domain area is positioned to be the dominant retail trade area of Austin. This is only the beginning."

Dick's, a Pittsburgh-based sporting goods chain, will enter the Austin market with its 75,000-square-foot, two-story Domain store.
The company, which had $3.1 billion in sales last year, has 294 stores but plans to grow to as many as 800.

The chain sells a full-line of sporting goods including traditional bats and gloves, shoes, elliptical exercise machines and golf equipment, including indoor driving ranges.

Dick's recently acquired Golf Galaxy Inc., which is a major competitor to Austin-based Golfsmith Inc.

The Domain's movie theater will be a Village Roadshow Gold Class Cinema.
Simon says the theater will be "unlike anything else offered in Austin," with food and alcohol served in its auditoriums that each will seat about 40 people.

snovak@statesman.com; 445-3856

[GoldenBoot]

The 2nd phase of The Domain now has anchor tenants associated with it; Dillards (a 200,000 sq ft -3 story store, Austin's 5th), Dick's Sporting Goods (1st of 2 planned), an 8 screen theater and the aforementioned Westin Hotel. I'm assuming this is for the phase located to the south of the existing center? Here's an article from today's paper:

http://www.statesman.com/business/content/business/stories/other/05/19/19dillards.html


Dillard's to open fifth Austin store at Domain

Movie theater, Dick's Sporting Goods also moving into center.

By Shonda Novak, Lilly Rockwell
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Saturday, May 19, 2007

Central Texas is getting a fifth Dillard's store, as part of an expansion of the upscale Domain shopping center in North Austin.

The new part of the center, which is scheduled to open in the spring of 2009, will have a 200,000-square-foot, three-story Dillard's store, along with a Dick's Sporting Goods and also a movie theater with eight auditoriums.

Indianapolis-based Simon Property Group Inc. announced the tenants Friday.
The first part of the Domain, which opened in March, includes a Neiman Marcus, a Macy's and a variety of high-end retailers, plus office space and 390 luxury apartments that are integrated into the outdoor shopping center.

The new section is expected to encompass 300,000 square feet of shops and restaurants, 75,000 square feet of office space, 350 luxury apartments and a Westin hotel.
Dillard's Inc. has three stores in Central Texas: at Highland Mall, Barton Creek Mall and Lakeline Mall.

A fourth store will co-anchor the Hill Country Galleria shopping center in the Village of Bee Cave. That center is scheduled to open in September.
A news release from Simon says the store's design and merchandise will reflect the department store chain's "renewed focus on upscale and contemporary fashion."
Dillard's did not return calls Friday.

Jill Rowe, president of Rowe Investments, an Austin-based retail brokerage, said it's common to see a Dillard's near a Macy's.
"While they compete, the synergy complements one another also," Rowe said. "It will make the area an even more dominant trade area. "
Rowe said Dillard's has been aggressive in Central Texas, "positioning themselves as a leader in all of the dominant trade areas of Austin."

"I predict we will see additional expansion from them in the near future in the suburbs," she said. "The region can easily support the Domain store, as well as additional stores in outlying areas."
"The Domain area is positioned to be the dominant retail trade area of Austin. This is only the beginning."

Dick's, a Pittsburgh-based sporting goods chain, will enter the Austin market with its 75,000-square-foot, two-story Domain store.
The company, which had $3.1 billion in sales last year, has 294 stores but plans to grow to as many as 800.

The chain sells a full-line of sporting goods including traditional bats and gloves, shoes, elliptical exercise machines and golf equipment, including indoor driving ranges.

Dick's recently acquired Golf Galaxy Inc., which is a major competitor to Austin-based Golfsmith Inc.

The Domain's movie theater will be a Village Roadshow Gold Class Cinema.
Simon says the theater will be "unlike anything else offered in Austin," with food and alcohol served in its auditoriums that each will seat about 40 people.

snovak@statesman.com; 445-3856


Just to make sure things are CLEAR (the media keeps screwing this up)…

The development being referred to in the article above is the “Domain Crossing” and not actually the second phase of the “Domain!”

The ACTUAL second phase of the “Domain,” which includes the hotels, Nordstrom, and a fourth anchor, is not expected to open until late 2010 or early 2011.

It bugs the heck out of me that the media is being so lazy about properly identifying these as two completely separate developments – which they are.

The design and tenant mix of the “Domain Crossing” will not be on the same par as is seen in the “Domain.” For anyone who has been to Dallas, it’s similar to comparing the Dallas Galleria to Valley View Mall. Both are right next to each other, but have different tenant mixes.

Also, Simon Property Group is the sole developer of the “Domain Crossing,” while Endeavor Real Estate group is developing the “Domain.” Try to think of it this way, the Hill Country Galleria is being developed by one group – at the same time, the Shops at the Galleria are being developed by a completely separate company. The only difference here is that there is not a major road separating the two developments.

In any case, both the “Domain” and “Domain Crossing” are going to awesome places to live, work and play in the coming years!

[Mikey711MN]

Just to make sure things are CLEAR (the media keeps screwing this up)…

The development being referred to in the article above is the “Domain Crossing” and not actually the second phase of the “Domain!”

The ACTUAL second phase of the “Domain,” which includes the hotels, Nordstrom, and a fourth anchor, is not expected to open until late 2010 or early 2011.

It bugs the heck out of me that the media is being so lazy about properly identifying these as two completely separate developments – which they are.

The design and tenant mix of the “Domain Crossing” will not be on the same par as is seen in the “Domain.” For anyone who has been to Dallas, it’s similar to comparing the Dallas Galleria to Valley View Mall. Both are right next to each other, but have different tenant mixes.

Also, Simon Property Group is the sole developer of the “Domain Crossing,” while Endeavor Real Estate group is developing the “Domain.” Try to think of it this way, the Hill Country Galleria is being developed by one group – at the same time, the Shops at the Galleria are being developed by a completely separate company. The only difference here is that there is not a major road separating the two developments.

In any case, both the “Domain” and “Domain Crossing” are going to awesome places to live, work and play in the coming years!

Actually, I, too, shared in your frustration until I came across this document (www.simon.com/mall/LeasingSheet/Domain1207.pdf). (a pdf, but see page 2) At least that appears to be the verifiable source of info that the media is using.

Otherwise, in spite of this document, I was always under the impression that the Domain Phase II was going to encompass the development to points south and east of where Phase I is. Thanks again for your clarification--or attempt thereof--all the same.

[ATXboom]

http://www.austinchronicle.com/gyrobase/Issue/story?oid=oid:543305



HOME: SEPTEMBER 28, 2007: NEWS
The Making of Downtown North
The Domain may sound like just another fancy mall – but planners say it's the seed of a second Austin
BY RICHARD WHITTAKER





These two design plans show the Domain project in its current state and what's envisioned 10 years down the road, assuming this multiphase centerpiece of "Downtown North" stays on course. Under the development and retail aegis of Endeavor Real Estate Group and Simon Property Group (with a Phase I start-up carrot from the city), this onetime IBM campus is being transformed into a mix of shops, residences, offices, and hotels. The first retail phase of the project – the upscale Domain I shopping district – opened this year with anchors Neiman Marcus and Macy's. Simon and Endeavor are working separately on adjacent developments – both named Domain II, for now.It's been derided as a shopper's Disneyland and pre-emptively dismissed by many Central Austinites as a strange, upmarket interloper, more suited for the tonier districts of Dallas or Houston. But if the developers and the city planners manage to deliver what they say they have in mind, the still-sprouting Domain shopping and residential complex on what is now the near north side will start to look a lot more like Austin. And – what may strike greater fear in the hearts of the Faithfully Weird – Austin may begin to look a lot more like the Domain.

At the moment, the development itself doesn't look like much, at least on the long approach. Driving in from Braker Lane, visitors progress along the uninvitingly named Domain Drive, where the only visible green is the cloth barrier that hides the demolition work. Beyond that is what looks like an industrial wasteland, accompanied in the distance by the gentle sound of backhoes and wrecking balls. A dusty expanse of concrete pad and gravel is interrupted by a forest of electrical pylons and mounds of rubble.

Then, suddenly, there's a brand-new Macy's. Park, and walk around it, and there's what appears to be a recently refurbished, meandering European town street – three- and four-story buildings with apartments above street-front stores, broken up by small plazas and shaded by well-established trees. Except – most small European streets don't have a Neiman Marcus. Nor a Tiffany's. Nor a Louis Vuitton. But then, neither do most Austin streets.

Welcome to the Domain, where it's not like most of Austin. Yet.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What's in a Name?
When it comes to urban development, it's hard to hear the word "domain" without sticking "eminent" in front of it. But for all its recent negative associations of diminishing private-property rights, the place name for this project actually dates back to the heady days of the dot-com boom – and shortly thereafter, which tells the whole tale. In 1999, the newly formed Endeavor Real Estate Group, in partnership with private equity investors the Blackstone Group and JER Partners, acquired the 304-acre former IBM campus on North MoPac. With its shift away from manufacturing to support at the site, the computer behemoth needed less of a construction footprint for its 6,200 employees. At that point, according to Endeavor principal Kirk Rudy, "the plan was to demolish the buildings and put up offices for the dot-com industry. Literally, within a matter of months, that strategy was proven to be a failure. Then we thought, 'We've got a significant power and fiber infrastructure, so let's build a 2-million-square-foot telecom hotel.' And then the telecom market collapsed. So we were really scrambling to get some value from the land."




The Domain development is just one component of a much more expansive vision city and neighborhood planners have laid out in a draft master plan of the North Burnet/Gateway area, which City Council is scheduled to consider Oct. 18. The entire planning area, including a segment west of MoPac, is about the size of Downtown and the UT campus combined.So while the planning ground shifted, the cyberspace name persisted – for a "domain" that turned back to its future as a commercial and residential fiefdom. A 55-acre slice of the site, adjoining MoPac, was basically free of tenants and ripe for quick redevelopment. Realizing that its high tech plans were dead, Endeavor took the project in a completely new direction: a mixed-usage or "new urbanist" community, combining retail and residential in a neatly defined neighborhood. One problem: The old partners weren't interested in this new kind of development. So Endeavor refinanced with RREEF Alternative Investments and started looking for partners. They settled on Illinois-based Simon Property Group Inc., experts in mall development who already ran several sites around Austin including the Arboretum and Highland Mall.

But this project would be as different from those malls as it was from Endeavor's original plan. It would be what urban planners, and increasingly the city of Austin's neighborhood gurus, call "vertical mixed use": stores below, residences above. More importantly, the shopping demographic would be far removed from the traditional low-key Austin approach. The developers would court A-list commercial tenants like Barneys New York Co-op and Sur la Table and thereby create a "regional shopping destination" – a commercial venture that in recent decades had been confined by definition to the suburbs, not the new urban core.

The immediate appeal for the city to rezone this light industrial property to attract a bunch of tony stores, in turn dragging in the big-city swells and high-end shoppers, was simple: sales tax. According to Fred Evins, redevelopment project manager for the city's Economic Growth and Redevelopment Services Office, "We'd seen more retail sales go to Round Rock and San Marcos and surrounding areas. The city's share of sales-tax dollars in the region was shrinking, and it was hoped this would turn that tide by providing a unique destination."

It wasn't just about getting out-of-town shoppers spending their tax dollars within city limits; it was also about keeping the city's own affluent shoppers here. "One of the things I always appreciated about Austin was the laid-back, comfortable approach," said Evins, "But there's more than one facet to Austin, and there are more black-tie events, more fashion, and more money coming in with the tech companies. This is meeting the market demand. It may not be the traditional Austin, but it's appealing to a market sector."

For Endeavor and Simon, the obvious downside was the upfront cost. This wasn't going to be a bolt-together strip mall, nor even a high-end strip mall but an "integrated retail environment" meant to attract demanding tenants with a world-class reputation. Increased residential density means more people, which means more parking, but the initial point of the project had been to get better use from IBM's massive areas of old surface parking. The new direction meant costly structured parking. The city was also looking for improved public amenities, like wide, pedestrian-friendly sidewalks, public art, and trees. To facilitate these goals and to help underwrite them, Endeavor and the city struck a deal: $25 million (notably, in 2003 dollars), paid out over 20 years to the developers, and based on sales- and property-tax receipts.

The incentive cash was in part intended to allow the developers to spend extra money on finishings to attract high-end retailers like Neiman Marcus. However, it was also an incentive package to get small local businesses and affordable housing into the development. "Simon told me that, if they'd approached this, they'd only have worked with national retailers," said Evins. But with a million dollars in promised incentives, seven local businesses either opened or moved on-site. (That still accounts for only around 10% of the stores currently planning to open along the Domain's main shopping street.)




The Steeping Room owners Emily Morrison (l) and Amy March are among a few locally based shopkeepers at the Domain.
Photo by John AndersonAccording to Amy March, co-owner of teahouse the Steeping Room, not only would her firm probably never have moved to the Domain without those incentives, but it might never have opened at all. March had helped set up Central Market's specialty tea program at the north store and had been looking to open a gourmet tearoom that would also serve food. She and her business partner, Emily Morrison, had been looking in South and Central Austin for a site for their new business. But finding somewhere affordable where they could serve the menu they wanted to the clientele they needed seemed impossible. "All these places were interested in us," said March, "but we were an upstart start-up, and they'd whittle us down into a space that wouldn't give us any business." In December 2005, they saw the plans for the Domain and found the developers were already negotiating with a national tea chain. The incentive package helped get them through the door instead. It still wasn't going to be cheap, but as March noted, "Real estate is expensive everywhere. For a more established business, they might have said, 'that's expensive.' But for us, as the first teahouse in Austin, we needed somewhere that was going to get big attention and support us."

Even though the number of local vendors is relatively small, they have always felt well-served by the Domain, said Craig Staley, owner of fellow tenant Bettysport. "We add something different to what the chains bring," Staley said. "They make it like every other shopping center, and we're making it unique." With the first branch of their women's sportswear store already open Downtown just off Lamar, he and co-owner Stephanie Terrell were looking to expand, and like the city planners, they had their eyes on out-of-town customers. "We were looking to Georgetown and Round Rock," said Staley, "population centers that, with Austin's growth, are now so far from Downtown. For the people out there, getting into Downtown is such a headache, with the travel and the parking. So for us, this was just about gaining access to a segment of the population that we weren't touching." They were keen to avoid getting stuck in a low-density strip mall, so the Domain's combination of mixed-usage and high-end retail neighbors with national profiles was part of the appeal. "We're a destination shop," said Staley, "so for us to be in the middle of that, it puts us in with our direct market – females 35 to 55, with the means and the time to be going to yoga, gyms, and Pilates."

Of course there are also the nationally recognized names. Among the first tenants Simon attracted was McCormick & Schmick's, and the seafood restaurant held a grand opening of its second Austin site in August. If the Domain seemed like a change from the chain's normal locations, near to office and after-work dining, it was. "I've been doing this for 36 years, and when we go into a new community, our preference is always to move into downtown," said Doug Schmick, CEO and co-founder of the chain. Yet with the planned mix of office and residential, the Domain felt like a downtown. "What we've found over the last five or six years is that there are a lot of quasi-lifestyle centers that start to create a sense of community and destination within the suburban environment," said Schmick.

Which is exactly what the city would like to hear.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If You Build It, They Will Stay
Big as it is, the Domain is only a small portion of a much bigger plan being formulated by the city of Austin. Technically, it's called the North Burnet/Gateway area. But there's a simpler name for it: Downtown North.

"A second downtown was inevitable," says Council Member Brewster McCracken. "It's just that if you didn't plan for it, it would be like Las Colinas or the three satellite downtowns in Houston, where it's an office park next to a regional power center next to several gated apartment complexes – and they're a failure. So, if this is going to happen anyway, let's get ahead of the curve and plan it so it functions like a true urban core."




McCormick & Schmick's recently opened its second Austin restaurant at the Domain with a ceremonial fish toss.
Photo by John AndersonThe North Burnet/Gateway area is the end result of a 10-year series of studies and consultation exercises by the city. Currently, it only exists as a draft master plan, but its scope – and its potential impact on North Austin – could be enormous. An unevenly shaped zone, it covers 2,300 acres between MoPac, Metric, and Research (plus a bulge west of MoPac, including the Gateway shopping center). That's roughly equal to Downtown plus the UT campus. It's what is now officially known as a transit-oriented development – in the new-urban newspeak, a "TOD." The idea is that people will be able to take either highways or mass transit, such as Capital Metro's new Capital MetroRail, to the area. Once there, the integrated nature of the larger neighborhood, with its mixed-usage, pedestrian-friendly design, and broad selection of entertainment and employment opportunities, will mean they'll be able to walk, cycle, or (still at least in theory) use public transport to get where they want to be.

The city is not going to be doing the developing itself: Nor is it likely to create another subsidy sweetener like the one accorded the Domain. There has been a sharp and continuing public outcry against these particular incentives (see "Giving Incentives a Bad Name"), and city officials themselves now argue that the Domain deal was a product of a particular economic time and place. In a Finance Commission's Audit Committee meeting on Aug. 28, the council made it clear that such economic incentive packages will probably remain restricted to industrial and not retail developers. Instead, said Molly Scarbrough, senior planner with the urban design division of the Neighborhood Planning and Zoning Department, "We'd change the zoning and design standards in the area to encourage the kind of developments we're looking for. But in our plan, we think that by doing these changes, the area could accommodate up to 40,000 new units: 80,000 people. That's probably aggressive, but the city's regulations would allow for that level of development."

There are, of course, technical issues, and by formulating a master plan now, rather than responding to developments piecemeal as they go in, the city hopes to avoid simple but damaging problems like mismatched-water-pipe bores or moving electric cables from out of the way of one development and straight into another. But that will take policy changes. "Our infrastructure policy is traditionally big on rewarding ex urbis [i.e., suburban] developers," said McCracken, "so that's an example where our infrastructure policy is 180 degrees from our land-use policies. People who develop density will have to be rewarded equally to subdivision builders."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I, II ... Many Domains
So how do a bunch of swanky stores and condos fit into this grand urban vision? Technically, what is open now is not "the Domain," but "Domain I," the first stage of a much larger plan. The site breaks down into four sections. After selling the campus to Endeavor, IBM leased back five buildings, totaling a million square feet of real estate. Simon has already opened Domain I, and now both Simon and Endeavor are working on their own separate second-stage developments (both called, confusingly, "Domain II").

The plans are elaborate and large-scale. Domain I is a compact and self-contained development; attempting to fill the remaining acreage with something the same but almost five times the size was a nonstarter. "If you overlay the boundaries of the Domain over Downtown, it would stretch from Town Lake to north of the Capitol and four blocks either side of Congress," said Rudy. "It has the potential to become something significant."

The current plan is not to extend Domain I but to turn it into the shopping district for a new, larger community. There will be more vertical mixed use, with residential over retail, but there will also be separate apartment buildings, as well as offices and hotels. On Endeavor's 170-acre second stage, there's already a commitment to a 10-acre park with a small lake at its heart. A mile-and-a-half jogging track will roam through the area, and there's even a proposal for a 7,000-seat outdoor amphitheatre. In total, Endeavor is looking at 6,000 new residents and 17,500 employees on-site. "The first area was exclusive, and this will be much more diverse," said Rudy. "Our tagline is, 'Austin Continued.'"




Endeavor's Kirk Rudy stands at ground zero of the second development phase of the Domain. An old warehouse in the background is on its way out to make room for a new structure.
Photo by John AndersonTransferring over to mixed- and vertical-mixed-usage would allow space for this big population, but then there's the ever-persistent question of where they all will park their inevitable (two?) cars. A large part of why the IBM campus looked so sparsely populated and underutilized were the large tracts of open-air parking. "Our consultants found that you could take the existing parking lots, put in some structured parking garages, and start infilling that surface," said Scarbrough. "Then you could keep some existing retail and then infill with residential over time." For Endeavor, structured parking wasn't simply helpful, but essential in order to cram everything in. "If we were to replicate this in the suburbs with surface parking lots," said Rudy, "it would require 700 acres, not 170."

A core part of this plan is dependent on something Austinites do not do very much but at least measurably more than most other urban Texans – they walk. Domain I was always intended to be foot-friendly and walkably sized. Domain II will require even more design to support those purposes, including retention and replanting of mature trees to provide cover and shade. For the area plan to work will take some major re-engineering. "We're looking at a redesign of Burnet to make it a little more pedestrian-friendly," said Scarbrough, "because it's got pretty fast-moving traffic that could be quite scary if you were a pedestrian or on a bike."

According to Evins, this transfer to foot may take some effort and a culture shift. "Texans, for the last generation or two, haven't been big on walking." However, lessons are being learned from other projects around town. "2nd Street is a prime example of how we've taken an 80-foot right-of-way and reapportioned it. We've taken away from the car and given it to the pedestrians, without restricting vehicular access," he added.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Sense of Place
For McCracken, the fact that Austin is already very pedestrian-friendly makes the proposed plan more likely to work here than most other cities and a lot more "Austin" than the early and voluble detractors consider Domain I. Few southern or Texas cities have large, walkable areas like the Drag, South Congress, or Town Lake, or so many of them. "I was driving around with my family in Corpus Christi this weekend," McCracken said, "and I realized the enormous progress we have made and the futility of trying to do in Corpus what we've done here. There's no way."

So a pivotal part of the plan is that the entire development remains integrated rather than isolated bubbles that become virtually gated communities. "We talk with Simon often," said Rudy, "and we agree that when someone comes to the Domain, they feel like it's 'the Domain.' Not Simon's Domain, not Endeavor's Domain; so it will all be connected." The city and the developers are hoping for a cascade effect: If Domain I succeeds, that will help make Domain II successful. If the Domain works out, it will attract the other developers the North Burnet/Gateway area needs.

But being a test bed for a much bigger development has its risks. If the hope is that Domain I will trigger further construction, then Domain I is also dependent on that new growth for long-term success, especially if, as this first stage is situated, it's currently an oasis of consumerism in the middle of an industrial wasteland. Doug Schmick in fact describes that uniqueness as part of the early appeal. "In my business, we've always felt that coming in a little earlier has its advantages, and we have long-term faith in the viability of the project. To be one of the first ones in, some people may perceive you as taking a risk, but you're establishing a sense of place, and you become known and deeply entrenched in the overall development."

For Schmick, using regional destinations like Domain I is a way to kick-start a sense of community in an ailing city center or a new urbanist setting. "One of the issues of living in suburbia was that there wasn't any heartbeat or central core, and these kind of developments are an attempt to bring that into play. I think from a city-planning point of view it's pretty unique, and it began in Reston, Virginia, about 20 years ago."

However, Reston could also serve as a warning for the city and the developers. The unincorporated municipality was a model for new urbanism, and between 1970 and 2000 its population exploded from 5,700 to 57,000. But residents of surrounding, more suburban communities like Hunter Mill are now opposing what they see as high-density urban sprawl from their mixed-use neighbor. Many Fairfax County residents complain about Reston's skyline, now dominated by tall office towers. While the majority of buildings proposed at the Domain would be between four and eight stories, Endeavor has already closed a deal with Novare Group Holdings LLC (the firm behind 360 Towers in the "old" Downtown) to do a 28-story tower containing 145 hotel rooms and 360 condos on Domain II.

It's also worth keeping in mind that this is the third proposal for the land since the developers took over from IBM, only eight years ago. There is no definitive ground plan for the whole Domain; the city has not yet adopted the area master plan – and another economic downturn could again throw everything into disarray.

October will be a big month for both the Domain and the North Burnet/Gateway area. Endeavor breaks ground on the first significant new component of Domain II, a 137,000-square-foot office building. They'll also start the design process for a number of four- to eight-story residential blocks, totaling around 240 rental units averaging 900 square feet. On Oct. 18, the Neighborhood Planning and Zoning Department will present its master plan for the area to the City Council. But the full Domain project, and the greater area plan, will depend on that idealized walkability and whether even Austinites can be consistently separated from their cars. The Steeping Room's Amy March was optimistic, having already seen foot traffic in front of her tearoom. "A lot of people say, 'Oh, it's an outside mall in Texas; no one will come,' but they came. Yeah, we were lucky with the weather this summer, but it's Texas: You get used to the heat."

[M1EK]

I responded to these articles from the transportation perspective on my crackplog (http://mdahmus.monkeysystems.com/blog/archives/000444.html).

[ATXboom]

Second Austin Downtown at Domain by 2035
October 19, 2007 20:35 Filed in: News
As we have reported in the past, developers and the city have announced ambitious plans for the second phase of the Domain: the new mini-city rising off Mopac just north of 183. Between now and 2015, one developer alone plans to build 50, yes FIFTY, new buildings with heights ranging from 2-26 stories (as tall as 310 feet). When complete, The Domain will form a second Austin "downtown" with as many as 82,000 residents and 50,000 daytime workers. To put these numbers in context, Mayor Will Wynn has working hard towards a big goal: getting 25,000 people to live in the real downtown by 2015, the same timeframe.

The Domain capitalizes on a an ongoing trend in large scale development: Pleaseantville-like mini-cities that blend ground-floor retail with rental, condo and commercial properties on the upper floors. The goal is to create a disneyesque main street development that becomes a destination for retail and entertainment while making the development an attractive place to live and work. Envision multiple city blocks with street-side parking (and plenty of garages).

Today, the City of Austin took a step forward by approving phase 1 of a master plan for the area which will officially strive to create a second downtown on a 2,300 acre parcel adjacent to the domain by 2035.



Here is the summary from the Austin Business Journal:


City Council preliminarily approved phase 1 of the North Burnet/Gateway master landuse plan, which will create a so-called second downtown in the area around the Domain luxury shopping center by 2035.Final approval by City Council for Phase 1 is expected on Nov. 1.The North Burnet/Gateway plan's vision is to ultimately create clusters of dense, mixed-use, pedestrian-friendly neighborhoods in the 2,300-acre area north of U.S. 183 bounded by Walnut Creek, Metric Boulevard, Braker Lane and MoPac Expressway.The final plan will allow developers to build denser than anywhere outside of downtown and as high as 15 stories or 180 feet, and up to 30 stories or 360 feet in areas closest to planned commuter rail stops.Phase 1 immediately designates a zoning overlay district in the area to allow vertical mixed uses and other urban design elements, and to preclude interim development not in concert with the plan.



The initial Domain site consists of 57 acres and stands on the former site of Century Oaks Park, a multi-purpose recreational facility for IBM employees and their families. The park was so named for the century-old trees contained within. The land was purchased from IBM, and demolition of the park began in 2004.

Additional land for The Domain is being reclaimed from vacant IBM manufacturing and administrative buildings, as well as driveways and parking lots that were once part of the original IBM campus.

The developers were granted tax subsidies in 2003 from the City of Austin and Travis County. Total developer compensation from taxpayer money over the life of the agreement could reach $60 million. The developer keeps 80 percent of the city's sales tax for the first five years and 50 percent for the next 15 years. Plus, 25 percent of the property tax is rebated back to the developer for the entire 20-year period. The city of Austin expects to take in about $40 million in sales and property taxes over the 20 years of the incentive agreement.

[Jdawgboy]

I am really excited about what they are doing up there and I can't wait to see some of the cranes for these larger buildings to pop up. Has anybody heard any updated news about the Twelve Hotel at the Domain? When is construction on it supposed to start and is it still slated to be 28 stories?

[KevinFromTexas]

What I'm really excited about is the idea of being able to go downtown, park there, and take a train to the Domain and vise-versa. Can you imagine? Also if they ever get a line coming south of the river you'd pretty much not even need a car then for your transportation all the way to North Austin. Amazing.

[M1EK]

What I'm really excited about is the idea of being able to go downtown, park there, and take a train to the Domain and vise-versa. Can you imagine? Also if they ever get a line coming south of the river you'd pretty much not even need a car then for your transportation all the way to North Austin. Amazing.

GRRR. M1EK SMASH.

Try parking downtown, riding shuttle bus to Convention Center (no parking at train station itself or any of the next three), riding infrequently running train up to Domain (every half hour during rush hour but limited reverse commute support; only one trip in middle of day; probably none on weekends), transferring to shuttle bus, riding shuttle bus to Domain, then getting off.

Versus just driving to Domain.

[DrewDizzle]

What I'm really excited about is the idea of being able to go downtown, park there, and take a train to the Domain and vise-versa. Can you imagine?

No, I can't imagine downtown as an ideal park-and-ride lot. :koko:

http://imatt.us/mt/archives/orly.JPG

[totheskies]

Man, I love the sound of all this, but I-35 is going to be a nightmare, and the toll projects won't do enough to relieve it. How are the mass transit plans correlated with this new area???

[ATXboom]

The first commuter rail line will link downtown and this domain/arboretum area.

Personally I can and do walk anywhere downtown from the convention center [the downtown stop location]. From the Burnet Rd. stop [5 stops from downtown I believe] I would be more than happy to walk anywhere in the Domain.

M1 will follow proven analytical methods with his distances and I agree with these... however with the train running so infrequently you will have a few hundred poeple that wil do that type of walking. If the train ran more frequently I would be concerned.

[M1EK]

The first commuter rail line will link downtown and this domain/arboretum area.

Personally I can and do walk anywhere downtown from the convention center [the downtown stop location]. From the Burnet Rd. stop [5 stops from downtown I believe] I would be more than happy to walk anywhere in the Domain.

Have you ever actually tried to walk anywhere up there? Granted, fifty years from now, if the area is redeveloped, it might not be horrible (would still be way too long), but right now you'll spend about half of the walk in a ditch.

Hint: I used to work in the pink IBM buildings, and rode my bike up/down both Burnet and Metric a few times. Even guys like me would drive to the rec site on the other side (where the Domain is now) because the walk was so unpleasant.

[Jdawgboy]

Man, I love the sound of all this, but I-35 is going to be a nightmare, and the toll projects won't do enough to relieve it. How are the mass transit plans correlated with this new area???

Glad you brought up about the traffic on I-35. Its been more than a month since SH130 opened from 290 E to 71 near the airport and it just proves my assumption that these toll roads are not going to do Jack crap in lessening I-35 traffic. The state swore it would help but it hasnt. Its just as bad as ever and no toll road is going to change that. We need to do something about I-35 and we need to do it now. The city government should push the state and Federal Governments to do something about it make it a top priority on the national transportation system for upgrading.

[M1EK]

NO new road is ever going to clear up I-35, because people will just fill in the empty space on I-35. The point of SH-130 is to give people an alternative to I-35, but the state couldn't get past its developer-loving split personality enough to build a good bypass, so it's doing a poor job at both being a bypass and being a sprawl-inducer.

And, no, I-35 will never be expanded downtown. If/when the magical tens of billions of dollars show up, oil prices will make it moot.

[Dragonfire]

The state and/or federal governments won't do anything to fix I-35. They suggested a quadruple-decker freeway, so that tells you what's going through their mind. :koko:

And it's not I-35 we should be worrying about when talking about this second downtown... 183 and Mopac are the two freeways we should be concerned about. For example, South Mopac at 183 goes from 3 lanes to 2 lanes because the 183 flyover is an exit-only lane. I've never seen that flyover backed up in the 8 years I've lived here.

Oh, and don't forget the frontage roads that don't cross over the RR tracks between Braker and Burnet. Who the heck thought of that?

[KevinFromTexas]

No, I can't imagine downtown as an ideal park-and-ride lot. :koko:

Well now, of course not. I'm not saying downtown should be a park and ride lot. lol That came out wrong. I was more excited about the idea of being able to take a train between downtown and The Domain, or to any point in between.

[M1EK]

Well now, of course not. I'm not saying downtown should be a park and ride lot. lol That came out wrong. I was more excited about the idea of being able to take a train between downtown and The Domain, or to any point in between.

OK, except you can't.

You can take the train from the Convention Center to a train station behind the pink buildings at IBM - which is nowhere near The Domain. Shuttle-bus ride on each end (maybe walk the downtown end). Only if reverse-commute service is running that time of day. And the spots in between you can hit? Plaza Saltillo, to which you could take a bus in about three minutes. And don't forget Lamar at Airport. YEE-HAW!

[Mopacs]

Just curious... Where will the initial stations be located? I've seen a list, but I'm not sure if all will open at the time the line begins service. Highland Mall's stop comes to mind as one that will not open initially.

[M1EK]

Initial stations are:

1. Convention Center
2. Plaza Saltillo
3. MLK (way out east)
4. Lamar/Airport
5. Behind IBM
6. Northwest Park-and-Ride
7. Leander P&R

Stations mentioned sometime:

3a. Manor Road (still out in middle of nothing appealing - mentioned in streetcar study)
4a. Highland Mall (across Airport Blvd from mall entrance - mentioned in EA but unlikely)
5a. "Howard Lane" (recently roundly rejected by neighborhood folks - would most lately have been a small strip along FM1325 - mentioned in EA as farther out on Howard but unlikely in either location I think)

I would not bet on any but the first list (read more in the Environmental Assessment (http://allsystemsgo.capmetro.org/downloads/Final_EA.pdf))

The only ones of these with ANY pedestrian potential are the Plaza Saltillo station (too bad neighbors strongly resist additional redevelopment) and the one at Airport/Lamar (neighbors starting to fight back against that area's redevelopment as well). Highland Mall station has zero potential; everything else is far away from streets and/or activity centers. Take a look at the section for "notional stations" and you can see for yourself.

[KevinFromTexas]

Speaking of trains, the first one arrived yesterday in Austin.

http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/10/23/1023capmetro.html?imw=Y

[Mikey711MN]

"The Domain" != North Burnet/Gateway planning area

Phase II of the Domain != North Burnet/Gateway planning area

However, both are subsets of the greater planning area. As such, while comments about not being able to take the train directly to The Domain are entirely valid, keep in mind that a significant area to the east of Burnet is included in this plan and, as such, its development caters very well to TOD.*

* the point is, however, not lost that said "T" must be of high-quality for equally high-quality development

[M1EK]

The part of the planning area near the commuter rail station is unlikely to be non-trivially redeveloped within our working lifetimes, as unlike the west-of-Burnet part of the old IBM site, it's still being used very profitably by a lot of individual owners and tenants (IBM itself; a lot of smaller companies on the Metric side).

[ATXboom]

Friday, November 2, 2007 - 10:25 AM CDT
City approves plan for "second downtown"Austin Business Journal
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Austin's City Council gave final approval of phase 1 of the North Burnet/Gateway master land use plan, which will create a so-called second downtown in the area around the Domain luxury shopping center by 2035.

The North Burnet/Gateway plan's vision is to ultimately create clusters of dense, mixed-use, pedestrian-friendly neighborhoods in the 2,300-acre area north of U.S. 183 bounded by Walnut Creek, Metric Boulevard, Braker Lane and MoPac Expressway.

The final plan will allow developers to build denser than anywhere outside of downtown, as high as 15 stories or 180 feet, and up to 30 stories or 360 feet in areas closest to planned commuter rail stops.

Phase 1 immediately designates a zoning overlay district in the area to allow vertical mixed uses and other urban design elements, and to preclude interim development not in concert with the plan.

A draft plan of Phase 2 -- outlining ordinances implementing the plan -- is expected in six months, says Molly Scarbrough, a city senior planner. Final approval for the entire plan is expected in a year.

[ATXboom]

Endeavor to start building its piece of Domain by end of year
Whole Foods construction to begin early next year, add momentum to project


AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF


Wednesday, November 28, 2007

Construction is to start by year's end on the first office building at Endeavor Real Estate Group's mammoth Domain project in North Austin, where 8.5 million square feet of housing, hotel rooms, offices and restaurants are planned.

Next year, the project will gain momentum when work starts on a Whole Foods store, the first 240 apartments and a 9-acre park and pavilion, Kirk Rudy, an Endeavor principal, said Tuesday.

Endeavor Real Estate Group is looking for a second department store anchor in addition to Nordstrom for its Domain project in North Austin. Work on the first building of the 8.5 million-square-foot project will start in December.

Rudy said he is in talks to bring a second department store anchor in addition to Nordstrom, along with a third hotel, to the 176-acre project.

Endeavor also is talking to several prospective tenants for the first office building. Called Domain Gateway, the 175,000-square-foot building eventually will be part of 3.5 million to 4 million square feet of space at the project near MoPac Boulevard (Loop 1) and Burnet Road.

A second office building with 225,000 square feet will sit partially atop a new 70,000-square-foot store that Whole Foods Market Inc. plans to open in early 2010, Rudy said.

Endeavor's site is just east of Simon Property Group Inc.'s upscale shopping center that opened in March near MoPac and Braker Lane. Simon's project, also called the Domain, is anchored by a Macy's and Austin's first Neiman Marcus store, plus dozens of other high-end retailers and 390 luxury apartments.

Endeavor originally planned that 700,000-square-foot shopping center and brought on Simon Property as a partner.

Indianapolis-based Simon acquired Endeavor's partnership interest a month after it opened.

Rudy said sidewalks and roads will connect the two projects, so they will feel like a continuous development.

"The goal is you'll feel like you're in one community, one project," Rudy said.

Endeavor expects its mixed-use village to house more than 6,000 residents and 17,500 office workers when it is completed over the next 10 to 12 years at an estimated cost of $1.5 billion.

Plans call for 4,500 to 6,000 apartments, townhomes and condominiums, he said.

Rudy said Endeavor is not currently seeking public investment from the city or county for the project, but it hasn't made a final decision.

Meanwhile, work is under way at the site, where a former IBM Corp. building is being demolished, Rudy said.

The Whole Foods store is planned for the project's main, north entrance. Whole Foods considered a site just south of Simon's shopping center, Rudy said, but opted for Endeavor's development because of easier access and "to capitalize on the energy" of the project.

Rudy said Austin-based Whole Foods is a good fit for the Domain. The specialty grocer's "strong commitment to environmental stewardship" will blend with a project Endeavor plans to make ecologically responsible by adhering to national and local green-building standards.

Having a locally based grocer also underscores Endeavor's commitment to a strong presence of retailers and restaurants unique to Austin, he said.

Whole Foods said its store will have expanded product selections and services for a growing part of the city.

The one-story store will have two levels of underground parking, plus surface parking. Whole Foods plans to start construction in the fourth quarter of 2008 and expects an early 2010 opening, Rudy said. The store will replace Whole Foods store in the Gateway shopping center.

In the second or third quarter, Endeavor plans to start work on a 240-unit apartment building. In January 2009, Endeavor plans to begin construction on 450 apartments atop shops and restaurants in a district that could have 800,000 square feet of retail and 200,000 square feet of office space.

Anchoring the district will be a 144,000-square-foot Nordstrom store that is scheduled to open in late 2010, along with the rest of the stores, Rudy said. He said he is working on a second department store anchor.

Endeavor also plans to have three hotels, including one with 145 rooms housed in a 28-story condominium/hotel tower that would be Austin's tallest building outside downtown.

Novare and its Austin development partner, Andrews Urban, hope to break ground on the tower, Twelve Domain, in late spring.

Taylor Andrews, president of Andrews Urban, said prices for the 360 units haven't been determined. But he said they will be similar to those for a 44-story condo tower Novare/Andrews Urban is building downtown, where one-bedrooms go for $190,000 to $350,000 and two-bedrooms go for $270,000 to $550,000.

There also will be an Aloft , a boutique brand of Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide Inc. The six-story Aloft is being developed as a joint venture between Open Hospitality Partners, a Dallas-based development firm, and Lodgeworks of Wichita, Kan.

Rudy said he is in talks with another chain to build a 200-room hotel but said he could not identify the brand.

Another hotel, Austin's first Westin, is planned in the next phase of Simon's shopping center, which will have a Dillard's and a Dick's Sporting Goods store.

snovak@statesman.com; 445-3856

[jordan]

This is wonderful for that area. I can't wait to see if completed. Austin is long over due for a Westin. I just hope in that area, the desgin really stand out.

[Jdawgboy]

I would like to hear of more highrise projects other than the Twelve. One 28 story building by itself is going to seem a bit strange here in Austin, would like to see at least 2 or 3 other buildings around the same height in the area.

[arbeiter]

Of course I would want to see more high-rises, but I like high-rises standing all alone. Reminds me of the Williams Tower in Houston.

[travelinmiles]

This is cool for Austin. How is retail downtown? I know 2nd Street is coming up but are there any more proposals?

[bgrn198]

Talking about the uptown districts of diffrent city's the uptown district of Houston isn't north of downtown it's actually west of downtown around the Galleria like around Westheimer and Post Oak but I think it would be cool to see the north Burnet/Gateway area to turn into an uptown kinda like the area around the Galleria in Houston every time I go to Houston to visit I end up staying in uptown around the Galleria.

[Jdawgboy]

I havn't been up to the Domain recently, how much progress are the on the next phase?

[austin242]

I was wondering if they are still going to build the big apitheater that would be just what a new downtown would need.

[KevinFromTexas]

I've merged these two threads.

The one by Boris Austin's Second Downtown and the one by ATXboom The Making of Downtown North

All the same subject. Boris' was posted first since it's the oldest.

[bgrn198]

I was looking through the website at the buildings that were never built in Austin and there was supposed to be 2 24 story office towers up around Gateway they were gunna be called One and Two Stonebridge Gateway Tower and there was also supposed to be a 15 story Lincoln hotel too part of the Stonebridge Gateway Galleria. Does anyone know what it's talking about the Stonebridge Gateway Galleria? was Gateway supposed to be a Galleria mall like in Houston and Dallas? cause it's not called a Galleria now.

[KevinFromTexas]

From what I understand they were supposed to be part of the Gateway Shopping Center development on Mopac near 183 where the CompUSA is. I think they had bolder visions for the development than what happened. Besides the towers, I think they wanted more of a pedestrian oriented project than a typical strip center.

[paulsjv]

Speaking of Gateway shopping center. What's going to happen with that center now that some of the major stores are either going out of business, moving across mopac, or to the domain?

[JAM]

Speaking of Gateway shopping center. What's going to happen with that center now that some of the major stores are either going out of business, moving across mopac, or to the domain?

I've been over there recently but didn't notice any major stores leaving. Who are they?

[Raining Inside]

CompUSA closed its doors nationwide and Whole Foods is moving to new digs across MoPac.

[Mikey711MN]

CompUSA closed its doors nationwide and Whole Foods is moving to new digs across MoPac.

Not to mention Circuit City going across MoPac to Arbor Walk, which leaves a fairly good-sized chunk of retail directly adjacent to the MoPac-183 interchange pretty under-utilized.