[waterloowarrior]

The preliminary routes and station locations are out!!

(note that it could also still be BRT, but from what I've heard from public officials it seems to be that LRT will be the likely choice - if funding is provided of course)

http://transitea.region.waterloo.on.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=23

[FazDeH]

^^ This is great for KW. makes me jealous though haha. I have to admit, traffic in KW is FAR worse than in London

[clynnog]

The preliminary routes and station locations are out!!

(note that it could also still be BRT, but from what I've heard from public officials it seems to be that LRT will be the likely choice - if funding is provided of course)

http://transitea.region.waterloo.on.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=23

What would happen to CKMS studios...looks like the Research Park station could bulldoze a broadcasting icon

[waterloowarrior]

What would happen to CKMS studios...looks like the Research Park station could bulldoze a broadcasting icon

the RT park has a site plan that shows where the station would go if they get one, and I think it's south of CKMS, but I can double-check.

[Tony]

I have to admit, traffic in KW is FAR worse than in London

Are you kidding me? London traffic going N-S is damned near impossible during most times of the day. KW has a ring highway system.

[Snark]

..

[upinottawa]

I am rarely in Waterloo, but when I am -- almost exclusively during a weekend -- the freeway always seems busy and the popular interchanges backed up.

Outside of rush hours, driving through London is a breeze (Fanshawe Park Road between Wonderland and Richmond excepted).

[upinottawa]

Is the light rail project going to fly? What is the estimated cost of building (the first phase of) the light rail line?

[waterloowarrior]

it's still in the planning phases... have to decide whether it's LRT or BRT (but everyone is calling it LRT), route, phasing, and actually get the funding, but they did a cost estimate earlier

"Building a light-rail transit system between Conestoga Mall in Waterloo and Fairview Park mall in Kitchener has been roughly estimated to cost $306 million. The cost of extending rails southeast into Cambridge hasn't been estimated."

[FazDeH]

traffic getting into Kitchener off the 401 is a nightmare especially around 5pm I've been stuck in that mess for over an hour before I even got near downtown. London has its problems but we have better road systems and it never takes me more than 45 minutes to get from one end of the city to the other regardless of time of day.

[Deez]

:hell: how come the region didn't send me any emails about this! I signed up!

Can't wait to see KW get a real transit system.

[waterloowarrior]

I went to the public workshop tonight.. pretty good! It was great to see how many people knew about all the recent Uptown developments and the potential for light rail redevelopment, really wanted rapid transit and helping to provide alternatives to the car, and were really interested in the future of Waterloo Region!

My group had a pretty good consensus on what we wanted for routes/stations and which ones were out of the question. We wanted to make things as central as possible in Kitchener and make sure to serve Uptown Waterloo (no Weber route). We also suggested trying to connect the Universities via University Ave (or a nearby route) rather than trying to chose between one or the other (other groups also said this, so hopefully there is the possibility to consider it) - but it may not be possible for technical reasons. Had a great time overall!

edit: also, it was really well attended too! every table for the workshop was full

[the dude]

good luck. just don't steal our funding! we're getting ready to start planning lrt in the hammer.

[WaterlooInvestor]

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[Waterlooson]

Not exactly a ring. They put it where it fit into the available land. And, that very freeway is often jammed to a dead stop during morning and evening rush hours and backed up many, many kilometers long. People are actually forced to avoid the freeway on many days because it's impassable. A lot of the problem is caused the commuters going to and from Toronto.

London has a much better and wider road network that is very well laid out, but no freeway.

KW has the freeway, but the rest of the network is generally much poorer - much of that due to its irregular layout and lack of multilane roads, thus forcing too many cars onto the freeway in order to get accross town or to Toronto.

Both cities have their problems in this regard. Six of one, a half dozen of the other.


Driving south to north is a nightmare in London (from one end to the other); through K/W this is a breeze most of the time due to the expressway.

It's ridiculous to claim that commuters to/from Toronto are a significant cause for traffic problems in K/W when just over 2% of the workforce (of K/W) commutes between those cities.

Obviously you don't know much about K/W's transportation network because it has numerous multi-lane roads. Getting around town by car is much easier in K/W than in London - once you are familiar with the road network in both cities. The network is more "irregular" in K/W to be sure, but that is only a difficulty for the newbie.

[Cambridgite]

To settle the commuting issue, here are the stats for out-of-region commuting destinations.

WHERE WE COMMUTE

Top commuting destinations for residents of Waterloo Region (and percentage of total commuters):

Wellington County -- 11,465 (42 per cent)

Peel Region -- 4,610 (17 per cent)

Toronto -- 2,970 (11per cent)

Halton Region -- 2,140 (eight per cent)

Brant County -- 1,230 (four per cent)

Hamilton -- 1,140 (four per cent)

Perth County -- 1,080 (four per cent)

SOURCE: STATISTICS CANADA, 2001 CENSUS

In total, all of these represent about 12% of Waterloo Region's labour force. The only ones that surprised me for being so high were Brant (Brantford) and Perth (Stratford). Otherwise, this is what I would expect. As you can see, lots of people are taking the 401 eastbound, but they're not all going to the City of Toronto. Lots of them are going to Peel, Halton, and Hamilton (to Hwy 6 south). If you work in the south end of Guelph, you probably take the 401 as well. Since this doesn't even include Cambridge (it's part of the region), I will also say from experience that there are many Cambridgers who commute to KW and vice versa. Most of them take the highways, which include the 401 and highway 8. Hope this cleared up confusion about commuter traffic.

[WaterlooInvestor]

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[Cambridgite]

Good point, Waterloo Investor. I live in Cambridge and regularly commute to UofW for school. I have driven the 401 regularly for a couple years now and I find it to be heavy in both directions between 4-6pm. Strangely though, it seems you suddenly hit a wall coming into Kitchener at 5pm, while the other direction is flowing much more fluidly (unless you're at the flyover at the other end of hwy 8). I would like to compare these numbers to 2006 stats when they come out, to see what the trends are. I doubt that commuting to the city of Toronto has actually increased that much, since most of the GTA's employment growth is taking place in the outer suburbs. In recent years, there has been an influx in Mississauga commuters moving in (at least in the Townline/401 area of Cambridge). Mississauga has little room left to grow, so I think we'll increasingly become more connected with Milton in the coming years, which would increase the number of commuters between Waterloo Region and Halton. But don't forget, Waterloo Region and Guelph, which have a large base population (unlike Barrie or Orangeville), are also seeing substantial employment growth, so I wouldn't be surprised if traffic gets busier in both directions. Given current trends, I would expect the Cambridge-Milton stretch to get a lot busier in the coming years as we become more integrated with Guelph and the GTA. This is only my hypothesis and the only way to judge these trends is by actually having the data available to you.

With all of that said, Waterloo Region should have inter-regional co-operation in mind when building the LRT. I think GO transit will be needed, with connections throughout Guelph, Brantford, Hamilton, and the GTA. The 2 should be transferable to give people an option other than their cars. It will also mean avoiding car-oriented business parks whenever possible. Employment lands in particular, should be oriented to higher-order transit whenever they can be. I have briefly discussed the GO-train transfer idea with the Regional chair at the first LRT meeting I went to. My impression was that he wasn't too keen on the idea of GO service in Waterloo Region. He is worried about it becoming a "bedroom community". I share those same worries and I don't think this place would be as good to live in if people had no connection to their local community and kids were left without parents as they drive excessively for the "good life". We can't prevent commuters from moving here and out-of-towners from working here, so ignoring the problem is futile. Traffic is building in both directions and something needs to be done. I don't think it will do us any good to pretend we live in a bubble the way Mississauga does and I think we need to work together with the whole western half of the Greater Golden Horseshoe if we are to fully achieve the results we want.
Any thoughts?

[WaterlooInvestor]

-

[Cambridgite]

There is one question I'd like to ask when looking at commuting paterns. How is Wilmot (Baden, New Hamburg, New Dundee) not included in Kitchener's CMA? In my opinion, it's clear that it should be included. If that happened, we'd already officially be Canada's 10th largest metro, and have the extra attention that brings.

Wilmot (TP) / Toronto (C) 45 35 0
Wilmot (TP) / Mississauga (C) 85 70 15
Wilmot (TP) / Guelph (C) 95 45 55
Wilmot (TP) / Hamilton (C) 20 15 10
Wilmot (TP) / North Dumfries (TP) 95 70 30
Wilmot (TP) / Cambridge (C) 425 320 105
Wilmot (TP) / Kitchener (C) 1,910 910 1,000
Wilmot (TP) / Waterloo (C) 995 405 585
Wilmot (TP) / Wilmot (TP) 2,120 1,020 1,100
Wilmot (TP) / Wellesley (TP) 55 40 20
Wilmot (TP) / Woolwich (TP) 135 80 55
Wilmot (TP) / Stratford (C) 150 75 80
Wilmot (TP) / Perth East (TP) 45 30 15
Wilmot (TP) / East Zorra-Tavistock (TP) 35 20 10
Wilmot (TP) / Woodstock (C) 50 40 15
Wilmot (TP) / Blandford-Blenheim (TP) 30 10 30
Wilmot (TP) / London (C) 40 10 35

Patience WaterlooInvestor. Even without insignificant Wilmot, we'll still be hitting the 500,000 mark pretty soon. But yes, I agree with you. At less than 100,000, if over 30% of your labour force commutes to the urbanized core, doesn't that make you part of that CMA? I think Statscan needs to review their CMA boundaries. There's a lot of new development around Baden and New Hamburg right now as they are becoming popular exurbs. They are definitely not large enough to attract any substantial amount of inbound commuting, so I'm assuming many of these new residents are commuting into the tri-cities.

Back to the topic again, when I went to the last meeting, my group discussed the idea of a car free King Street from Victoria to Cedar, as the LRT would have difficulty sharing the road with cars along that narrow stretch. When one of the planners read it out to everyone people just laughed and said it'll never happen. A lot of other groups proposed running it along Duke or Charles Streets, where it wouldn't have exposure to the main street of retail. Any thoughts?

[WaterlooInvestor]

=

[Waterlooson]

There is one question I'd like to ask when looking at commuting paterns. How is Wilmot (Baden, New Hamburg, New Dundee) not included in Kitchener's CMA? In my opinion, it's clear that it should be included. If that happened, we'd already officially be Canada's 10th largest metro, and have the extra attention that brings.

Wilmot (TP) / Toronto (C) 45 35 0
Wilmot (TP) / Mississauga (C) 85 70 15
Wilmot (TP) / Guelph (C) 95 45 55
Wilmot (TP) / Hamilton (C) 20 15 10
Wilmot (TP) / North Dumfries (TP) 95 70 30
Wilmot (TP) / Cambridge (C) 425 320 105
Wilmot (TP) / Kitchener (C) 1,910 910 1,000
Wilmot (TP) / Waterloo (C) 995 405 585
Wilmot (TP) / Wilmot (TP) 2,120 1,020 1,100
Wilmot (TP) / Wellesley (TP) 55 40 20
Wilmot (TP) / Woolwich (TP) 135 80 55
Wilmot (TP) / Stratford (C) 150 75 80
Wilmot (TP) / Perth East (TP) 45 30 15
Wilmot (TP) / East Zorra-Tavistock (TP) 35 20 10
Wilmot (TP) / Woodstock (C) 50 40 15
Wilmot (TP) / Blandford-Blenheim (TP) 30 10 30
Wilmot (TP) / London (C) 40 10 35

Not only is Wilmot not included in the CMA, but neither is Wellesley! Ridiculous.

[WaterlooInvestor]

=

[Cambridgite]

I'd look to Calgary and Edmonton for some advice. They both built LRT at around 500,000 in population. (same as Waterloo Region)

I would prefer to build the Downtown section underground. (aka Edmonton) The Region has a enough money if they make this a priority, however the Province and the Feds probably wouldn't go for it.

If that's the case, my second option would be closing Halls Lane, and using it as the Downtown Route. (i believe this is similar to Calgary?)

I don't want the LRT line going above ground on King Street. 1) It will make it harder to expand areas for events. (ie. right now for the blues and new years festivals, King Street is shut down in front of City Hall to expand the venue. 2) I don't want the sight of train wires on King. 3) We need more pedestrian traffic before shutting down King Street for cars.

I just asked people on the Calgary transit forum what they did to accomodate their LRT downtown. It turns out they DID close off a mixed-use street to cars (7th Avenue) and made it a pedestrian and transit only road. However, this was not their main street and the road being used isn't extremely narrow like King. Over time, the street has become pretty functional and stores have adjusted to cater to the LRT commuters.

Since Kitchener's downtown has such a small footprint and has only 1 mixed-use street, suddenly taking cars off the road is a risky prospect. I like your idea about using Halls lane. However, is it wide enough to accomodate an LRT in each direction though? Are there too many obstacles (ie. fire escapes) getting in the way? Somehow I have a feeling that the LRT is going to veer off to Charles Street and King Street businesses will have to deal with getting no LRT exposure. But at least the one-block walk from Charles still makes them easily accessible.

[dunkalunk]

Halls Lane is essentially an alley and is riddled with fire escapes and entrances to parking garages. The right of way would only feasibly wide enough to run one transit line, even then entrances for numerous underground parking garages and service entrances back onto the street.

Although I would personally prefer an underground section at least from Francis street to Queen, dependant on the technology used, closing King for a dedicated transit line would not be that bad of a fate. If trams used were a hybrid overhead electric/battery/diesel/natural gas ect, overhead wires could be kept off King Street alltogether and only be used on dedicated right of ways. Alternately, the vehicles used could be entirely grid independant, having no need for overhead wires.

On events such as the Oktoberfest Parade, Blues Festival, Buskers, ect. The line could be run right up to the event's bounds and then reverse in the other direction. Temporary platforms could be erected. There would be extra express bus service to run around the event (as there is currently for Oktoberfest) but forcing people to transfer vehicles will draw people to the event. These events also run during off-peak travel times.

Traffic from King Street through downtown Kitchener could be redirected toward Charles street by streamlining lights on Francis or Water streets and then be merged back to King Street South of Ottawa where the current terminus lies. Traffic could also be funnelled onto Duke for accessing downtown, but Charles and Weber would remain the main NW-SE road mains.

Check out http://www.kitchener.ca/king_street_master_plan.html
For information on a proposed streetscape for Downtown Kitchener.

Sadly, Despite all of this, there will always be people opposed to closing King Street to vehicle traffic.

[kitchener-lrt]

MORE PUBLIC CONSULTATIONS COMING UP!!! It's not the conventional RT meeting, but a brief open house. There are 6 places where you can voice your opinion on route selections, and the new GRT business plan. Enourage others to go!!!
http://transitea.region.waterloo.on.ca/ (go down to news)

[WaterlooInvestor]

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[kitchener-lrt]

I really hope that our region thinks into the future, and plans out RT systems like this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zksmklkEjvY

[WaterlooInvestor]

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[kitchener-lrt]

I really like how Portland's spending money to beautify their system. Earlier this year Waterloo Region decided against spending money for aesthetics on the Fairway Road Bridge. At the time I was in favour of the Region saving money on that project, since I personally prefer any extra money we have to be spent on the LRT line. I still feel this way, and would love to see millions of dollars spent on our transit line to make it a showcase project. In other words, I want there to be a "wow" factor to our system. I want our line to be a 1st rate experience.

Just to add on something to your post. I'm also all for saving money where money can be saved, but an area is defined by it's architecture. If we build beautiful bridges, it'll showcase us in a positive manner.

Regarding Portland, that city is amazing. Can anyone see King St. being sort of like that pedestrian mall? We're all aware that King will be made more pedestrian friendly, but are we also looking at it also being more transit friendly? I really hope transit recieves better priority on King (and I'm not just talking about nicer shelters). Some jump lanes, or priority signals should lead us in the direction that Portland's in.

[jeremy_haak]

Just to add on something to your post. I'm also all for saving money where money can be saved, but an area is defined by it's architecture. If we build beautiful bridges, it'll showcase us in a positive manner.

Regarding Portland, that city is amazing. Can anyone see King St. being sort of like that pedestrian mall? We're all aware that King will be made more pedestrian friendly, but are we also looking at it also being more transit friendly? I really hope transit recieves better priority on King (and I'm not just talking about nicer shelters). Some jump lanes, or priority signals should lead us in the direction that Portland's in.

What is the proposal? I recall a photo (I believe of the Fairway bridge) that was a standard bridge, but with these arches added on, ostensibly as a gesture to the heritage of the area. It was ugly. I feel the same way about the pedestrian bridge they built over the 401. If they want to build something beautiful, spend enough money on it to make it so. Those two examples were half-hearted, embarrassing gestures that the region would be entirely better off without.

[go_leafs_go02]

I hope you guys get a LRT system. It's about time that we start looking away from buses and BRT and get some rail systems in place. I don't mind buses, but you must admit, there is a certain stigma about riding buses and how they are viewed as transportation for the lower class. for some reason, riding light rail or subways seems sleeker, more attractive, and I bet it can attract the middle class suburbanite if made affordable much much quicker than placing bus routes everywhere.

All the best on this endeavour. I know Hamilton is looking into it, though that is a pipe dream as far as I'm concerned (they seem to be going to the BRT route) And as for London. Our transit system works for a city like London, they're upgrading the system to some BRT lines as early as next year, but seeing light rail in London is a huge stretch. We need a ring road first in my opinion. :)

[dunkalunk]

Honestly, I don't know whatever happened to the monorail idea. :P
(we really don't have the density or the capital. link to a somewhat biased, yet still engaging read on light rail vs. monorail (http://www.lightrailnow.org/features/f_monorail006.htm))



I do admit however that having a fixed track is better than having a busway system; higher capacity, denser growth encouraged around set stations, overall appeal ect.

I would personally love to see King Street downtown becoming pedestrian only, or even transit only, however there are many hurdles to be overcome to make it a success and the grungy image we currently have in our downtown won't do much to encourage a change to a pedestrian format. I do agree that in the long term it would become successful but public sentiment would never go for it at this time.

To agree with haak, that proposed bowstring arch monstrosity was absolutely horrid, it's no wonder that the single span beam was chosen. I recall the series of diagrams in the paper as well.

[WaterlooInvestor]

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[kitchener-lrt]

http://transitea.region.waterloo.on.ca/pdfs/PCC_HANDOUT_P2S2_EVALUATION_RESULTS_-_with_all_appendices.pdf
:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

[dunkalunk]

^BTW, That's the paperwork for the final route alternatives.

I'm glad to see that the Railway Corridor-University-King Street route got shorlisted :D

here here, I'll reserve further judgement until I actually read the thing.

[Cambridgite]

In that report, it lists traffic congestion and frequency of lights as an issue on some of those routes. Why would that make a difference on speed if the LRT is supposed to have its own RIGHT-OF-WAY? They're not planning to just make it a glorified streetcar, are they?

Btw, who's going to the next consultation? Where and when? I think we should all go together if possible.

[dunkalunk]

I also noticed that they said that a more direct route would have less potential ridership due to the lack of number of stations (namely between Ottawa and Fairview). I would think that a more direct route with higher relative service speeds would encourage riders to travel across the length of the system. Also, a station at Montgomery would be redundant due to the proximity of Ottawa Street and the lack of redevelopment potential to the east, south and west due to a 7/8 interchange and the Rockway neighborhood. I would think the Kingsway Route would be listed first, considering it has the lowest capital cost.

As for meeting, I would be able to attend the one at First United on the Thursday. I think we should meet as well.

[kitchener-lrt]

Btw, who's going to the next consultation? Where and when? I think we should all go together if possible.

I'm planning on going to the Market consultation next Saturday. I love their proposal for bypassing Hespeler, and travelling in that "ditch", next to Hespeler!:cheers:

I'm confused about BRT being ranked 1st for the "south Kitchener to Preston":koko:

[dunkalunk]

When I was looking through the alignments, I noticed that some of the most preferred alignments were also some of the most indirect. Also, many of them used the centre of the street causing more disruption to traffic than if it were placed off to the side.

The King-Kingsway Route between Ottawa and Fairview park mall because the routing that was chosen for it operated in mixed traffic going through the centre of one of an incredibly busy intersection, and also was slowed down by the number of bends in it. So i decided to use my Photoshop skills to create an alternate routing with a better dedicated right of way.

Charles to Fairway Road Routing
http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/2483/charlestofairwayag9.th.gif (http://img128.imageshack.us/my.php?image=charlestofairwayag9.gif)

I also thought the route from Sportsworld to Preston core was a bit too out of the way, even if it does serve Toyota. IMO, the north Cambridge industrial park is not dense enough to warrant a stop, especially due the proximity of Sportsworld Station. I believe it would be better served by a shuttle bus service which would travel through the park between Sportsworld and Preston Stations. I included both the King Street Route and the Rail ROW Route as opting to travel through Preston.

Highway 8 to Preston Routing
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/7676/sporstworldtoprestonxc1.th.gif (http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sporstworldtoprestonxc1.gif)

I'm planning to send these images to the region for consideration. I'd like to get some feedback before I do however, If there is anything you think should be added, feel free to say so.

[waterloowarrior]

For the Waterloo section, the part that goes on Northfield could be tricky... that whole area around the interchange is pretty messed up, with lane changes, people crossing 6 lanes of traffic to get to the other side... no signals... etc. The hydro corridor was also an option earlier on as a connection. However, perhaps this is best addressed during the detailed design. McCormick also seems to be a pretty busy stop for the Ixpress since the universal bus pass (in the Waterloo context... not sure if it's good enough to deserve an RT stop though)

[kitchener-lrt]

When I was looking through the alignments, I noticed that some of the most preferred alignments were also some of the most indirect. Also, many of them used the centre of the street causing more disruption to traffic than if it were placed off to the side.
I know! First, the RT team wants a direct route, then they rank an indirect 1st? We need to make sure we attend the public consultations, so that this indirect route is not chosen!



I also thought the route from Sportsworld to Preston core was a bit too out of the way, even if it does serve Toyota. IMO, the north Cambridge industrial park is not dense enough to warrant a stop, especially due the proximity of Sportsworld Station. I believe it would be better served by a shuttle bus service which would travel through the park between Sportsworld and Preston Stations. I included both the King Street Route and the Rail ROW Route as opting to travel through Preston.

Highway 8 to Preston Routing
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/7676/sporstworldtoprestonxc1.th.gif (http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sporstworldtoprestonxc1.gif)

I agree that this proposal is too out of the way. Instead of using the existing rail ROW, the region should build a new, shorter rail ROW. BTW, nice map.


Personally, this is what I'd like to see happen:
NOTE* all routes chosen by me would be LRT

Segment 1: 1-4 (only to Uptown Waterloo)

Segment 2: 2-2

Segment 3: 3-1 (I can't see how 3-2 was ranked 1st, when it's quite indirect)

Segment 4: 4-5 (using existing rail corridor. Also, it's very stupid that 4-3 doesn't connect to Sportworld:koko: )

Segment 5: 5-7

Segment 6: 6-5 (The only problem is that connecting to buses would be difficult, unless the transit planners would build a terminal there.)

Segment 7: 7-4 (it would connect to the Dundas/Samuelson Station)

[kitchener-lrt]

When I was looking through the alignments, I noticed that some of the most preferred alignments were also some of the most indirect. Also, many of them used the centre of the street causing more disruption to traffic than if it were placed off to the side.
I agree that the option that ranked 1st wasn't very direct. I still think that the Kingsway option should be first, even if that means that the people in their cars will take even longer getting to their destinations.

I also thought the route from Sportsworld to Preston core was a bit too out of the way, even if it does serve Toyota. IMO, the north Cambridge industrial park is not dense enough to warrant a stop, especially due the proximity of Sportsworld Station. I believe it would be better served by a shuttle bus service which would travel through the park between Sportsworld and Preston Stations. I included both the King Street Route and the Rail ROW Route as opting to travel through Preston.

Highway 8 to Preston Routing
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/7676/sporstworldtoprestonxc1.th.gif (http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sporstworldtoprestonxc1.gif)

I agree that the current rail ROW option is too out of the way. The region should build a new rail ROW, one that's shorter, and will get a RT vehicle from Kitchener to Preston quicker (like you're suggestion).

Personally, here's what I like the best:
Note*, all of my suggested routes would be LRT

Segment 1: 1-4 (only to Uptown Waterloo)

Segment 2: 2-2

Segment 3: 3-1

Segment 4: 4-5 (using the existing rail corridor. Also, 4-3 is my preferred option, but it doens't connect to Sportsworld:koko: )

Segment 5: 5-7

Segment 6: 6-5 (something would need to be done to connect the Pinebush station with buses)

Segment 7: 7-4 (connecting to the Dundas/Samuelson Station).

[dunkalunk]

Personally, here's what i'm going for alignment wise:
Segment 1: 1-6 King-University-Rail-King
Segment 2: 2-2 King-Charles (Although I'd have it connect to Charles VIA Francis St.)
Segment 3: 3-8 + 3-1 Charles-Floral Crescent-7/8 Underpass-Kingsway
Segment 4: Not listed 8-King-8-401-rail see previous diagram
Segment 5: 5-5 King-Coronation or 5-2 Rail-Coronation Connect back to rail ROW Before Delta
Segment 6: None
Segment 7: 7-4

[kitchener-lrt]

No posts from WaterlooInvestor yet? :P

[Cambridgite]

Alright here's my selection. Note that all sections are LRT with a right-of-way from vehicles and traffic lights operating for a constant green so that the LRT doesn't stop.

Segment 1: 1-4 (but align LRT back to King street once it comes Uptown)

Segment 2: 2-2

Segment 3: 3-1 (it boggles my mind why this was ranked dead last. What is their obsession with Courtland and Fairway?)

Segment 4: 4-4 (find a way to get it to align back on King when it gets into Preston)

Segment 5: 5-5 (using Coronation to get to the Delta)

Forget segment 6....it's just stupid. Although, perhaps there could be a second BRT route connecting it to sportsworld station using the 6-1 model. I wouldn't want it to replace the Preston LRT though.

Segment 7: 7-3 (why was it ranked #4?)

[kitchener-lrt]

Segment 3: 3-1 (it boggles my mind why this was ranked dead last. What is their obsession with Courtland and Fairway?
I'm hearing you. They're so obsessed with picking up the most people. Sure that's important, but so is speed and directness.

Segment 4: 4-4 (find a way to get it to align back on King when it gets into Preston)
You said that all of your choices would be LRT, but would a LRT on a ROW on highway 8 be feasible? Putting trains on highway 8 seems a bit "out there".

Segment 5: 5-5 (using Coronation to get to the Delta)
I have another question:haha: . Why not put the LRT on the existing tracks right next to Coronation? Wouldn't that be cheaper to build, and less distruptive to traffic?

Forget segment 6....it's just stupid. Although, perhaps there could be a second BRT route connecting it to sportsworld station using the 6-1 model. I wouldn't want it to replace the Preston LRT though.
I'm surprised that you would forget segment 6, when there is a tremendous oppourtunity for redevelopment. The region already has plans for Hespeler redevelopment (The Record). Image, right now, Hespeler Road is a suburban dump. In 10 years, it could be an example to cities all across Canada, with lots of high density housing, great retail, and high quality public transit.
Take a look at GRT's system map, and you'll notice how the majority of bus routes in Cambridge connect to a terminal on Hespeler road. Everything's on Hespeler!:cool:


Segment 7: 7-3 (why was it ranked #4?)
Probably because it doesn't connect to a future GO train station:P .

[Cambridgite]

You said that all of your choices would be LRT, but would a LRT on a ROW on highway 8 be feasible? Putting trains on highway 8 seems a bit "out there".

They wouldn't put the trains on highway 8. They'd put them on Kingsway, using Montgomery and First Avenue to get there from King.

I have another question:haha: . Why not put the LRT on the existing tracks right next to Coronation? Wouldn't that be cheaper to build, and less distruptive to traffic?

Perhaps it would, but you have to consider how that lines up with downtown Preston....it doesn't. Before it gets to the mixed-use part of King street, the train tracks curve around and go through residential areas. It makes better sense to keep it along King and Coronation. Another problem is that Toyota regularly uses those tracks.

I'm surprised that you would forget segment 6, when there is a tremendous oppourtunity for redevelopment. The region already has plans for Hespeler redevelopment (The Record). Image, right now, Hespeler Road is a suburban dump. In 10 years, it could be an example to cities all across Canada, with lots of high density housing, great retail, and high quality public transit.
Take a look at GRT's system map, and you'll notice how the majority of bus routes in Cambridge connect to a terminal on Hespeler road. Everything's on Hespeler!:cool:

There's no way Hespeler Road will become a grand mixed-use boulevard within 10 years. And why would we prioritize Hespeler Road as a future downtown when we neglect existing downtowns like Preston? Also, there's few residential neighborhoods abutting Hespeler Road as most of what surrounds it is industrial. You also have to consider the redevelopment process. A lot of businesses are on Hespeler Road and are doing well because of its car-oriented nature. They're not going to like being expropriated (which is expensive) so that their establishments can be torn down, even if the end result is something more pleasant, walkable, and ends up being the largest downtown in the Region.

Probably because it doesn't connect to a future GO train station:P .

Dundas and Samuelson doesn't make sense for a GO-train station for a couple of reasons. One of those is the lack of room for parking. Another is that it's on a residential street that is relatively narrow and quiet and things will get congested when commuters start flooding onto it around 6-7am. The Delta is much more logical because it already has lots of parking, is at a major intersection and is a much safer-feeling area at night if you're waiting for someone (Dundas and Samuelson feels a little sketchy, especially at night). It also allows the LRT to take a much more direct pathway to downtown Galt.

[kitchener-lrt]

They wouldn't put the trains on highway 8. They'd put them on Kingsway, using Montgomery and First Avenue to get there from King.
I was referring to the Fairview-Sportsworld section.


There's no way Hespeler Road will become a grand mixed-use boulevard within 10 years. And why would we prioritize Hespeler Road as a future downtown when we neglect existing downtowns like Preston? Also, there's few residential neighborhoods abutting Hespeler Road as most of what surrounds it is industrial. You also have to consider the redevelopment process. A lot of businesses are on Hespeler Road and are doing well because of its car-oriented nature. They're not going to like being expropriated (which is expensive) so that their establishments can be torn down, even if the end result is something more pleasant, walkable, and ends up being the largest downtown in the Region.

Hespeler may not become a grand boulevard in the next 10 years, but possibly within 20-30 years from now. You have to consider that at the end of the day, the region is the one that holds the power, and if they plan on redeveloping the road, it'll probably happen. Also, Preston wouldn't be neglected, as it would have its own station. All of the residents east of Coronation would be neglected if the RT line doesn't travel along Hespeler, as would many bus routes, and all of the places they connect to (Pineush, Hespeler terminal, Cambridge Centre)

[WaterlooInvestor]

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[kitchener-lrt]

Dundas and Samuelson doesn't make sense for a GO-train station for a couple of reasons. One of those is the lack of room for parking. Another is that it's on a residential street that is relatively narrow and quiet and things will get congested when commuters start flooding onto it around 6-7am. The Delta is much more logical because it already has lots of parking, is at a major intersection and is a much safer-feeling area at night if you're waiting for someone (Dundas and Samuelson feels a little sketchy, especially at night). It also allows the LRT to take a much more direct pathway to downtown Galt.
I agree with you on this, but it doesn't look like the GO train station will end up being at the Delta. Regarding the feeling at night, better lighting and more traffic (pedestrian) can solve this problem.


Light Rail Transit (LRT) - uses rail technology for vehicles in dedicated transit lanes, exclusive off road route or mixed on-off road route, and using overhead electric or on-board diesel propulsion

It was mentioned at the last public meeting that the entire RT line will have its own ROW:cheers: .

[Cambridgite]

I agree with you on this, but it doesn't look like the GO train station will end up being at the Delta. Regarding the feeling at night, better lighting and more traffic (pedestrian) can solve this problem.

Well, as far as 'pedestrian traffic' and the feeling of safety is concerned, let me describe the area to you. Essentially, right next to Samuelson street for a good length, you have a railyard...and that's not going to be redeveloped by the looks of things. the railyard crosses Samuelson at multiple points and train tracks cover a large portion of the other side of the street. An overpass (Dundas street) spans over Samuelson and there's graffiti on it and all around. Nearby, there's delapidated old housing, abandoned factories, vacant lots with broken down cars lying in them. It's one of the few places in this Region that resembles Detroit. It will take more than a bit of lighting to make it feel like a nice area.

I think that Cambridge could maybe have 2 GO stations. One would be at the Delta, where it connects to the LRT. Another would be east of Franklin in the industrial park, where a proper park and ride could be situated for people who can't conveniently use the LRT to get to GO. One could be named 'Delta station' and the other could be named 'Dobbie station'.

By the way, I think I'll be going to the Thursday meeting in Cambridge since I'll be working on Saturday. Unless you guys change your mind and decide to go to another meeting that I can get to more easily.

[kitchener-lrt]

Well, as far as 'pedestrian traffic' and the feeling of safety is concerned, let me describe the area to you. Essentially, right next to Samuelson street for a good length, you have a railyard...and that's not going to be redeveloped by the looks of things. the railyard crosses Samuelson at multiple points and train tracks cover a large portion of the other side of the street. An overpass (Dundas street) spans over Samuelson and there's graffiti on it and all around. Nearby, there's delapidated old housing, abandoned factories, vacant lots with broken down cars lying in them. It's one of the few places in this Region that resembles Detroit. It will take more than a bit of lighting to make it feel like a nice area.

Thanks for the description of the area, as I now have a better sense of what the area looks like. I can tell you what will make this area become a better place, as well as a more vibrant place to be. And that is a LRT station, and a GO train station. I think that these stations would add density/vibrancy to the area, and encourage the city to improve this area.


I think that Cambridge could maybe have 2 GO stations. One would be at the Delta, where it connects to the LRT. Another would be east of Franklin in the industrial park, where a proper park and ride could be situated for people who can't conveniently use the LRT to get to GO. One could be named 'Delta station' and the other could be named 'Dobbie station'.

I doubt that Cambridge will get 2 GO stations immediately...maybe later on. Too bad CP is so stubborn regarding letting GO run trains on their tracks.


Just a question. Would you consider supporting 5-4 for segment 5, and 6-3 for segment 6? This route would serve Preston more, as well as the major transfer point known as Cambridge Centre :P .

[dunkalunk]

In a previous post on page 2 i neglected to include a link to my vision of the RT ROW between Sportsworld and Preston. Take a gander
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/6492/sporstworldtoprestonux2.th.gif (http://img137.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sporstworldtoprestonux2.gif)

Concerning a Cambridge GO line; there is more priority to extend the current Georgetown rail line into Kitchener VIA Guelph. Also, GO has already made a priority to double track the system from Union to Georgetown which is essential to improve system efficiency. It's only a matter of time before the system is expanded into Kitchener (with double track I hope). However nice it would be to have the GO train system to run into Cambridge it is currently not a priority, however I feel that the region could make this priority. GO transit currently has a lot of strides it must make in improving system speed and efficiency on its current network before it can effectively expand.

As for location of the station, I like the idea of a dual station approach, one central Galt station and another Park and Ride on Franklin. I have no real opinion over the exact location of a Galt station, but it would need to be integrated directly into Rapid transit whether it be at Samuelson or the Delta (I'd prefer the Delta but eh..)

Aside, Imagine something like this at the delta (in 10 or 20 years); a traffic controlled roundabout with a below surface RT line and station with pedestrian access tunnels.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b2/Roundabout.bristol.arp.jpg/800px-Roundabout.bristol.arp.jpg
(i'm sure many of you have seen this picture before, taken from Roundabout on Wikipedia)

The main reason I prefer the Coronation route over the Hespler route is because it is the most direct route between Kitchener and Galt, also it serves established town centres.
Hespler Road as it exists today is a very unfriendly place for pedestrians, with large parking lots, limited road crossings for pedestrians, and overall auto supremacy. The Hespler corridor is not dense enough to support a rapid transit line with limited stops and would be difficult to create such density in the corridor. With time, this may change, but currently it is a typical, suburban, sprawling strip mall.

Preston, however provides more promise for creating a destination for pedestrians, already posessing history and retaining its town identity.

In the future, my dream would be for the RT line to extended from the Galt Core up along Hespler Road and into the town of Hespler proper. This would likely be at least 10 years off from the completion of the current RT system. But, along with the RT system, there is also going to be improvements to bus systems to travel along major corridors with more efficient crosstown service, there is no doubt that the demand will be there.

[WaterlooInvestor]

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[WaterlooInvestor]

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[WaterlooInvestor]

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[WatDot]

"This is to help meet a provincial demand that 40 per cent of new homes be built in urban areas by 2015."

That 60/40 policy is the best thing since sliced bread! :worship:

[kitchener-lrt]

The main reason I prefer the Coronation route over the Hespler route is because it is the most direct route between Kitchener and Galt, also it serves established town centres.

Preston, however provides more promise for creating a destination for pedestrians, already posessing history and retaining its town identity.

You make a good point. Preston does seem like a more established downtown, but I feel that if we miss out on Pinebush and the CC, we're ignoring around 10-15 bus routes:( . CC needs a RT connection, not only for the retail, but for the bus connections. Either way, we're getting RT (most likely LRT!!!!:notacrook: :cheers: ), so I'm happy:cheers:.




Waterloo Region will be building a LIGHT RAIL TRANSIT SYSTEM!

:D :D :D :D :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :P :P :P :P

:upload_71700: :upload_71700:

It looks like it. Watch out for the old fashioned people who'll side with BRT just because it's cheaper:rolleyes: . Like Yanick Cyr
mentioned below, LRT seems more permanent.
Speaking of timing, I wonder if at the meeting the Region will be able to provide us with an estimated time per segment. I'd be curious to know exactly how long they're predicting each route will take.

I actually asked this question at the last meeting, and the guy said until the line is built, and the vehicles are tested, timing will be unknown.

Which other meetings work well for you/everyone else?
It looks like I can't make Saturday's meeting. I'll most likely be attending next Thursday's meeting in Waterloo, that way I can give my input on the GRT 2008-2010 master plan. I'm not completely sure yet.

Is region on the right track?
A new study ranks 94 possible options for better public transit in Waterloo Region. Leading the list is a rapid-rail system with a first-phase cost of more than $300 million
January 08, 2008
JEFF OUTHIT AND KEVIN SWAYZE - RECORD STAFF - WATERLOO REGION

Costly electric trains are strongly favoured over cheaper buses in the latest study on a proposed rapid transit system.

Planners have now ranked 94 options for dozens of possible routes still under review in Kitchener, Waterloo and Cambridge.

Trains are favoured in six of the seven top options.

"The advice from others is that the light rail is probably the preferred route to go," Regional Chair Ken Seiling said yesterday. "It gives you a higher degree of ridership. It has a better track record of attracting investment."

Planners who took part in the regional study are pitching rapid transit as a way to lure buildings to neighbourhoods near transit stations.

This is to help meet a provincial demand that 40 per cent of new homes be built in urban areas by 2015.

"Rail has a better ability to focus development around stations," said Yanick Cyr, rapid transit project director. "It's seen as more permanent.

"Even if it's a more expensive system, it brings more benefits to the community."

Rapid transit has yet to be approved, and construction remains several years away at the earliest.

It's estimated rail transit would cost up to $306 million to build for just a first phase in Kitchener and Waterloo. That's in 2004 dollars.

Planners contend rapid transit will draw the riders it needs to be viable, even though few residents use public transit today.

Cambridge residents offered support but also skepticism in interviews near Hespeler Road.

Hans Hansen grew up in Toronto and laments the lack of rapid public transit in Cambridge.

"Here, I'm trained to drive because transit isn't developed," he said, while pumping gas into his truck at a filling station.

He doesn't like driving on Hespeler Road to head south into old Galt because "it really looks junky," traffic is thick and Grand River Transit service isn't convenient to his house.

Guy Weatherston agrees Hespeler Road is "pretty congested" with traffic but isn't convinced there's much government can do to change it.

He's indifferent to rapid transit plans -- he wouldn't use it.

Of the options, a rapid transit route "down the middle would be good," he said. "I don't know how much it would be used."

Christina Lahey sees little hope for rapid transit on car-centric Hespeler Road.

"They're dreaming," said Lahey, who walks the busy road after work. "I won't be around to see it."
It has not been determined if a Cambridge rapid transit route should travel along Hespeler Road, through Preston, or through both areas.

In the latest findings of a $2-million transit study, 94 bus and train options are ranked by 21 criteria, including ridership, cost, environmental impact and community benefits.

The only place where buses outperform trains is in the Sportsworld area of south Kitchener and north Cambridge. There, buses have the edge because they would draw more riders at much less cost.

In most other places, planners contend trains will draw more riders and also outperform buses in other ways, despite costing more.

Later this year, planners intend to narrow rapid transit options to five complete routes. These would include train routes, bus routes, and possibly a route mixing both.

"The next step is to do a cost-benefit analysis on complete systems," Cyr said.

The provincial government has pledged to pay two-thirds of construction costs for an approved first phase in Kitchener and Waterloo.

Regional council wants the federal government to pay the remaining one-third of costs but has yet to secure a commitment.

You should've seen the reactions from people in my Civics class today:haha: . "Electric trains...sweeet":cheers: . Some people were confused regarding BRT being ranked first from Fairview to Preston. Some were like "so we'll need to take the bus to Fairview, then the electric train".

He's indifferent to rapid transit plans -- he wouldn't use it.

Of the options, a rapid transit route "down the middle would be good," he said. "I don't know how much it would be used."

Christina Lahey sees little hope for rapid transit on car-centric Hespeler Road.

"They're dreaming," said Lahey, who walks the busy road after work. "I won't be around to see it."
This pissed me off. How do they know they'll never use Rapid Transit?

[sbwoodside]

Hi I'm a member of the Hamilton Light Rail group which is meeting roughly monthly to get the ball rolling in hammer town for light rail/streetcar/trams. We're basically a group of interested "citizens" who are pushing Hamilton in the light rail direction. We've already had some impact, the city is officially studying rail as an option now, and we're developing basically a pitch and a network of groups & politicians etc. to talk to. One part of that is probably a good idea to talk to other groups in similar circumstances.

What's the organization like in Waterloo, is there any kind of group of interested (non government) people pushing LRT?

I work in Waterloo (I have a small tech startup at the Research & Technology Park) so I'm planning on going to public consultation centre on Thursday afternoon, probably around 4pm ish, will anyone be there who I should talk to?

[WaterlooInvestor]

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[WaterlooInvestor]

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[kitchener-lrt]

Hey Cambridgite, how was the firt meeting? It's great to see LRT have this much momentum.

[Cambridgite]

Well, I thought there would be workshops, but there weren't. Nevertheless, I got to ask some questions and I got some answers.

One of the questions I asked was whether or not the lights would be timed so that the LRT can continue without stopping. They said the lights would time themselves to give priority to the LRT. So by the sounds of it, it wouldn't quite be stalled at all the lights, but would just have to wait for smaller time periods than it otherwise would have to. Also, it will have its own right-of-way so competing with traffic is not an issue.

I asked whether or not the Hespeler Road or Preston route has been chosen as the preferred option through Cambridge and she didn't know.

One really interesting bit of information I was told is that the Region has already been called up by a large number of developers who want to know when and where the stations are being placed. So expect some nice developments as the LRT begins construction, as the lack of mass transit is presently a barrier. This also helps confirm the truth that LRT does and will spur additional high-density development. :)

[WaterlooInvestor]

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[kitchener-lrt]

Well, I thought there would be workshops, but there weren't. Nevertheless, I got to ask some questions and I got some answers.

One of the questions I asked was whether or not the lights would be timed so that the LRT can continue without stopping. They said the lights would time themselves to give priority to the LRT. So by the sounds of it, it wouldn't quite be stalled at all the lights, but would just have to wait for smaller time periods than it otherwise would have to. Also, it will have its own right-of-way so competing with traffic is not an issue.

I asked whether or not the Hespeler Road or Preston route has been chosen as the preferred option through Cambridge and she didn't know.

One really interesting bit of information I was told is that the Region has already been called up by a large number of developers who want to know when and where the stations are being placed. So expect some nice developments as the LRT begins construction, as the lack of mass transit is presently a barrier. This also helps confirm the truth that LRT does and will spur additional high-density development. :)


GREAT! Thanks for posting your responses. I'm estatic to hear what you said regarding developers:banana: :banana: :banana: . LRT, here we come!
I can't wait until next Thursday's meeting.

[kitchener-lrt]

So WaterlooInvestor, what was the Market RT consultation like?

[Waterlooian4Life]

Hey All

I thought that I would Let you all know that Last year I was on the Public Advisory Committee for Regional Growth Management and Rapid Transit. While I was on the Committee all the information that was given to me was under priviledge but now that I am not on the Committee there is some information that I can give you if you have questions please ask and I can tell you what i can

[WaterlooInvestor]

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[kitchener-lrt]

Hey All

I thought that I would Let you all know that Last year I was on the Public Advisory Committee for Regional Growth Management and Rapid Transit. While I was on the Committee all the information that was given to me was under priviledge but now that I am not on the Committee there is some information that I can give you if you have questions please ask and I can tell you what i can

I've got a few questions:cool: . Like WI mentioned, is there any plan for a new VIA station? Will the RT line get it's own transit priority signals, since Cambridgite heard that it'll just get signals that will shorten the wait at red lights:koko:? We all probably know this answer, but is the committe favouring LRT?

Did you hear anything else interesting?
:cheers:

[kitchener-lrt]

Cambridgite and WI, what was the turnout at each of the meetings so far? Thanks.

[Cambridgite]

Cambridgite and WI, what was the turnout at each of the meetings so far? Thanks.

I don't have the exact numbers, but it was moderate. Given how significant the project is, it always amazes me how few locals know about it. I hope this doesn't result in a backlash from angry taxpayers.

[WaterlooInvestor]

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[kitchener-lrt]

Given how significant the project is, it always amazes me how few locals know about it. I hope this doesn't result in a backlash from angry taxpayers.

Well, this project is getting more and more media attention. What I'd suggest, and this is probably something I'll end up doing, is writing a letter to the editor, pushing for LRT.
Plus, tell people that you know about it. I've been doing that at school:P .

[Rathgrith]

You know what the sad thing is; Waterloo (or K-dub) will probably get their LRT built before Ottawa does. I will probably be another 100 years before Ottawa gets an LRT built and a tunnel for that matter the way things are going.

[kitchener-lrt]

Just a reminder, tomorrow is the 2nd last RT meeting!! If you can make it, please be there, and encourage others to go!

[rapid_business]

Is it not just visualizations of what is already up on the website with the whole preferred route?

[WaterlooInvestor]

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[WaterlooInvestor]

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[WaterlooInvestor]

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[dunkalunk]

So I went to the public consultation at First United today and provided a whole lot of input. I stressed the importance of running a direct, dedicated line in order to increase service speed and reliability. I also proposed the relocation of the VIA rail station and the construction of a terminal at UW.

[kitchener-lrt]

I also went to the public consultation yesterday. I asked about a new train station at King/Victoria, and the guy told me that ultimately, GO, when they come, will decide where to build their station. The problem with this is that GO doesn't really build beautiful train stations, but rather just two long platforms, with transit shelters. It would also be mostly up to VIA to decide about a new station location, and the feds to provide the funding. There is some bad news that I learned about! The RT EA is BEHIND schedule by 6 MONTHS!

I was also talking to Yannic Cyr about the RT line on Hespeler, and he said that if it does travel along Hespeler, they'd add features that would make the street look less like an "ocean of concrete". He mentioned things like trees, flowers, and planter beds. He also explained about how LRT is more permanent, and that people living around LRT tend to invest more in their properties, as opposed to BRT.

There were some ladies there, that were getting on my, as well as some RT people's nerves :haha:. This was what the conversation was like:

Ladies: I don't like overhead wires, I think BRT would be better.
RT Person: There is technology out there that you don't necessarily need overhead wires.
Ladies: Where exactly will the Uptown station be?
RT Person: We didn't really get to that part of the study yet.
Ladies: You're involved in this project, so you should know where the sation will be. (I was laughing at this point).

Then a while later, she started up again:
Lady: Will parking along King be removed, when the ROW is installed?
RT Person: We're not sure yet.
Lady: What do you mean you're not sure? Will parking be removed or not? We need parking.
RT Person: It's a possibility. You seem pretty involved in this section of the RT line (RT Person tries to relax the situation :P)
Lady: Yea, I'm on the Uptown King St. committee.

[WaterlooInvestor]

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[WaterlooInvestor]

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[kitchener-lrt]

was that mentioned by any chance?
Route 7, along with Ixpress ridership wasn't mentioned during the meeting. However, I did take GRT the meeting, to build up ridership for RT:P. Going north, the 7C was full at around 3:30, then coming down, the 7B was 3/4 full, and the 22 was half full.

:( So the Final Report goes to Regional Council in the Fall now? Did he say anything about a timeline for the next steps?

I doubt it. It looks like it'll go to the province late this year (December). The guy did mention that they'll be holding another RT meeting later this year, with full route options:).

[WaterlooInvestor]

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[dunkalunk]

The region put up the video that they were showing at the public consultation centres
http://transitea.region.waterloo.on.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=30&Itemid=1000002

[WaterlooInvestor]

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[WaterlooRegioner]

I can't wait for groundbreaking of this project, although that may be a bit of a pre-emptive thought. Do you think a fall 2009 to mid summer 2010 is a realistic window to expect constrction to begin? It is almost a sure thing now that it will be starting in the near future due to the 2/3 funding secured by the province, and 1/3 likely to come from the feds. And as well, once groundbreaking begins do you think development along the future line will begin? Or do you think this will only start once the line is done?

[DHLawrence]

It's tough to say. Some development is already in the works it seems, with all the growth in Waterloo and some of the development in Preston, one of the preferred routes. Naturally there will be some late-comers, but I think that it will complement existing redevelopment in the beginning.

I'd say groundbreaking will be likely in 2010 or 2011 rather than sooner. After the assessment is done, all the contract granting and equipment tenders are going to have to be done, plus all the negotiations with land owners and with the province will be necessary. They'll also have to decide whether to build it at once or do KW first and Cambridge later (I've heard both options). It might be ready to run the first trains in 2015 or '16 if they really work at it.

[rapid_business]

Thinking of construction even is still a ways off. Until real numbers are crunched out and all the funding is secured, it means very little.

[Waterlooian4Life]

I think 2015 - 2016 may be pushing it.

-Finalizing the route and the EA is probably a good 6 months off
-the council approval process
-Then purchasing the land necessary depending on where and who owns it would be exptremely time consuming
-engineer selection whether is is designed in house or contracted out which involves another council approval
-Then the design process which could possibly take year worth of time depending on how they phase it
-then the tendering process and how many contractors will be working on it
-then X number of years to construct the whole system which will involve construction of tracks reconstruction of major roads if the route chosen is in the centre of a road. and if you think about that it takes 4-5 months to reconstruct half a kilometer of a 4 lane major road in the summer time think about how long it will take to re build major roads as well as building a transit system.


- also don't forget the construction of a service depot there region doesn't park any of its busses outside so think about how big a service depot would have to be to house a number of light rail trains. lastly don't forget all the administrative people that will have to go along with this

[kitchener-lrt]

I think 2015 - 2016 may be pushing it.


I'd think the exact opposite. We should have the system running by 2011/2012. Consider this:

The whole study will be finished by late fall/early winter (2008)
It'll go to regional council by either late fall/early winter (2008/2009)
The designing phase should take about 1 year and a half (2009-2010)

Construction of phase 1 (Conestoga-Fairview) should take about 2 years, considering they don't work on one section at a time, but rather parts of the line at once.

[jcollins]

Transit plans could pick up speed under proposed provincial changes

April 07, 2008
Jeff Outhit
RECORD STAFF

WATERLOO REGION

Regional council may soon choose to put its $306-million rapid transit plan on the fast track.

Ontario has proposed a law to streamline transit approvals to six months, with tight timelines for public input and challenges.

This could dramatically speed planning.

Council is into the third year of a $2-million rapid transit study that may not conclude this year.

"There are absolutely some potential opportunities," said Donna Serrati, the region's project director for rapid transit.

The streamlined process is expected to become law this spring. Council would then have two months to adopt it or stick with the slower pace.

"If it would reduce the time, get us to an actual beginning of a rapid system, then I would be in favour of considering it," Kitchener Mayor Carl Zehr said.

Council is studying a system of rapid buses or electric trains, linking Kitchener to Waterloo in a first phase. The province has agreed to pay two-thirds of costs.

The streamlined process would let council drop rapid buses, assert its desire for electric trains, unveil a route, and pitch it to the public.

Revisions and public input would be limited to four months. The public would have one month to object. The environment minister would have 35 days to consider objections.

This timeline alarms Jackie Van de Valk, an environmental consultant in Waterloo.

"My main concern is that the Ontario government is limiting public debate and sound, environmental planning." She agrees transit planning takes too long, but says the province is going too far.

Locally, fast-track planning for transit could also speed up:

GO Transit studies on extending commuter buses or trains to Waterloo Region.

A study of high-speed trains between Windsor and Quebec.

The public has until May 12 to comment. Details can be found online on Ontario's environmental registry.


Should be something to keep an eye on. Could make things a lot more interesting a lot sooner than anticipated

[DHLawrence]

Let's hope so!

This article says that a KW line is the first phase, again. When I went to the public consultation meeting, they said that a single construction project was planned rather than building in phases. Who's got the wrong info?

[Waterlooian4Life]

Now I think that 2012-2013 is possible

[dunkalunk]

Regardlessof fastracking (i want to see it), I would still like to provide input on shortlisted complete route alternitives that are supposed to be due for public viewing sometime this month. Fingers crossed.

[WaterlooInvestor]

=

[DHLawrence]

Yeah, I kinda figured that's what was going to happen; thankfully, we were right!

[kitchener-lrt]

The region doesn't have to streamline the whole EA process, so we could still end up with the final resuls late this year.