[HockeyFan]

If this is in the wrong place or the wrong board generally, please let me know -- thanks!

I am seriously considering a move to Toronto in the coming months. My background... I am Canadian, born in Canada, and currently living in Southern California. For a variety of reasons, Toronto has always appealed to me, and my job situation may allow me to make a move in the coming months. More than likely, I will be self-employed or operating some kind of small business in Toronto, so the job market is not key, but I am still interested in how strong the job market is.

As far as housing costs go, they are far below what I see in Southern California, that's not a concern. It's hard to find anything new under $800K (US) here, in the GTA, it seems $500-600K would find a nice place. Fortunately, that will be doable, especially when selling a house in SoCal!

What are people like in Toronto? I have visited several times when I was younger, but not for 15 years now. I always liked Toronto and Torontonians, and I've met many of them here in SoCal. The city is remarkably diverse, much like SoCal, and that is very important to me. How easy is it to meet people? I have heard comments and stereotypes of reserved Torontonians, but I have never seen that personally -- I've always found quite the opposite, I've had an easy time talking to people in Toronto. I'm a big hockey fan and a Leafs fan, that may help! :) Is it easy to meet people and start talking to people, or does the culture tend to be more introverted?

What are some nice areas with new construction? A 2000-3000 square foot house would be one option, another is a townhome. Condos, probably not, simply because of the space issue. It's hard to move into a 800 square foot condo with enough stuff to fill a 2700 square foot house, unfortunately! What I'd be looking for... somewhere with relatively easy access to downtown (keep in mind, by my current standards, an hour at a non-peak time would be acceptable), a safe neighborhood, and preferably an area with stores, restaurants, services nearby. Some kind of vibrant downtown -- even a small suburban one -- is nice, but not required.

Also... to anyone with allergies... how bad are outdoor allergies? I am allergic to molds, grasses, weeds, and some trees. The relatively compact layout of the GTA appeals to me -- there are not acres of open, undeveloped land like some cities, especially American Midwestern cities.

Hopefully I am not the only one with similar questions... I know this isn't really a moving board, but I can't find any boards of that type, so hopefully this is somewhat relevant to this board. If not, I apologize!

Thank you very much for your time. Go Leafs Go! :cheers:

[LordMandeep]

for 500-600k you would get a first class house in Rosedale....

The people are okay, no one bothers you and if you require help they would help even if it doesn't really help you at all (wrong directions)

I remember on the Subway a poor lady who was blind, said "help me, I am blind i am lost", four people got off the subway to help her. I rarely see things like that in the outer suburbs where i live.

THe Job Market is decent now, but is expected to pick up.

[MonkeyRonin]

for 500-600k you would get a first class house in Rosedale....

Dude, houses in Rosedale cost multiple millions of dollars. If you're looking for a 2000-3000 sq.ft. house for that price.. then the suburbs are all I can think of.

You said you don't mind suburban areas though, so perhaps Mississauga centre? Not too sure of prices there, but there is plenty of retail, and is easily under an hour away from the city by car.


Is it easy to meet people and start talking to people, or does the culture tend to be more introverted?

As with pretty much any city, people's attitudes have a pretty wide range. On a daily basis I see countless assholes, and countless polite people. Typically though, people seem to be about in the middle (ie, not bitchy, but not friendly either).

[401_King]

Sauga is a decent suburb. About the people--- You will get nice people, and you will get assholes. Lots of variety. At the end of the day, I just have a laugh , thats what its all about.

[shappy]

not to sound pretentious but as with anywhere, your success with meeting people starts with your own attitude.

As for the other stuff... for $500,000 you could definitely get a victorian in Cabbagetown or maybe even in the Annex. But it sounds like perhaps Mississauga or Scarborough could be a good fit. There are some nice hoods near the lake in both areas.

Check out mls.ca (http://www.mls.ca/) for real estate listings.

[Sacamano]

for $500,000 you could definitely get a victorian in Cabbagetown or maybe even in the Annex.

maybe 1200 - 1500 square feet of house


how bad are outdoor allergies

pretty bad

[Taller Better]

Allergies are pretty specific, but are probably everywhere. I think it would be a good idea to come visit for awhile and get a feel for the place, to determine if you want to move back to Canada, and if so which neighbourhood. for 500 G's you can get a nice house here... maybe not as big as you are expecting, but there are an amazing array of housing styles here, going back 150 years. Job market is good, and it is a pretty "up" place, in the middle of a huge building boom.

[Tony]

Also... to anyone with allergies... how bad are outdoor allergies? I am allergic to molds, grasses, weeds, and some trees. The relatively compact layout of the GTA appeals to me -- there are not acres of open, undeveloped land like some cities, especially American Midwestern cities.

I've developed allergies since I've moved here, thankful we have free health-care. :D

[401_King]

dammit health care ISNT free! its a lie

but yea i have bad allergies, but it only acts up when i go somehwere ELSE than T.O for ome reason

[asher11]

A friend of mine was born and raised in S. Cal. but lives in Toronto now. The one thing that really really gets to him is the weather. He says the weather seems to be a big factor in everything, whereas, in California, it's always nice so it's not a concern. I guess what I'm saying is that the weather is taken into consideration here moreso than there -- people bitch about it, talk about it in general, plan for it, dress for it, etc.

If you're going to move here be prepared for more, umm, weather, most of which isn't as nice as what you're used to.

[Gerrard]

You transition wouldn't be that difficult. Except for the weather, "culturally", Toronto is very similar to southern California, more so than say Vancouver.

[Taller Better]

dammit health care ISNT free! its a lie

but yea i have bad allergies, but it only acts up when i go somehwere ELSE than T.O for ome reason

You'd think of it as "free" if you ever had to cough up hundreds of dollars per month in the States because your work didn't cover you with a Blue Cross plan!
True, the weather is going to be an adjustment. I know some guys from California who are here making a film and they nearly died during that cold snap at the end of February. :haha:
But that is all part of moving North. A person would have to put up with something similar if they moved to New York City or Chicago.

[HockeyFan]

I actually grew up in Saskatchewan, so Toronto's weather doesn't intimidate me too much. :) I also spent some time in the Midwest where 110 F and dewpoints of 85 F were not uncommon, so the summers don't scare me either! :)

Tony -- where did you move from? If you didn't have allergies there, maybe I should investigate that place... :)

To me, it seems Toronto should be a lot better for allergies than similar American cities of the similar latitude/climate(Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, etc), simply because the city is more compact. In other words, you don't get the groves of trees and ragweed in the city -- check out Google Earth to see. Compare, for example, Mississauga, Brampton, or even Pickering to the newer suburbs of American Midwestern cities, it's quite a difference. And while pollen "can" travel miles, it's generally accepted 90% of pollen falls less than a block from the source, so the immediate surroundings are the most important, at least that's what I've found.

Also, in Canada, you can actually buy Reactine, Allegra, Cromolyn, etc. over the counter. In the US, they're by prescription, and based on the plan I'd be going to soon, it would run 5-10 times the cost of what it would be OTC in Canada. Only Claritin of the newer generation (post-1990) antihistamines is sold OTC in the US.

Regarding the US healthcare, TallerBetter, you are absolutely right. If you don't work for a large company (and I never have), you pay a lot of the monthly premium in any case. And if you're self employed, you're buying the Blue Cross/Blue Shield plans, which are costly and far from comprehensive. The Canadian medical system may not be perfect, but I will take it over the American system every day. Greatest good for the greatest number is far better than top notch for the richest any day, in my opinion, even though I've been fortunate until now to have good quality care in the U.S. I just don't understand why health care, the most basic human right, should be something people can be shut out of. Don't even get me started on pre-existing conditions......

Culturally, I do anticipate Toronto to be a lot like SoCal. In both places, the population is known as tolerant, open-minded, and diverse. I've often said California, in many ways, has more in common with Canada than it does with much of the United States. California is liberal, forward-thinking, diverse, housing is compact, people spend a lot of time away from their homes -- going out to eat, the beach, games, or whatever. Compare that to much of the Midwest, which tends to be conservative, largely segregated, spread out, and entertainment revolves around the home... it's just very different.

Toronto and SoCal also seem to have a connection as dominant cultures in their respective countries, loved by some and hated by others. They both are significant in the film industry, they both are lightning rods for the country, and centers of immigration. Toronto seems to have almost everything I like about SoCal, but perhaps without the "me first" attitude found among some (but not all) people in SoCal. Also, Toronto is a much better sports (particularly hockey) town, and that really is important to me.

Socially, I tend to be a very outgoing person. I enjoy talking, I will talk to anyone who sits around me at a game, in a bar, whatever. Generally, I don't have trouble meeting people, other than my mistaken time in Minnesota, where people are remarkably introverted. I'm a 30ish single male, so I think I'd find a lot of people like me in Toronto. Like SoCal, Toronto does not seem to be a place where everyone feels they have to be married by 21 (Kansas and Oklahoma present the opposite, apologies to anyone offended by that comment!), so it seems there's a social scene for singles in their 30s.

At the same time, I like my space. I've lived in places where the attitude is "what's mine is yours, but what's yours is mine." I've had people tell me when they'll be staying with me, without asking if it's okay, or even if I'd be in town! And in some cases, if I'm out of town, people will ask for the keys -- and they're not people I know that well. That's not me.. I need space. I'm a social person, but I'd prefer to socialize at a game or a restaurant, and then go home.

Thank you for all the replies so far!

[Dude from Rio]

Thank you Hockeyfan for such an informative post and to all who answered.

I´ve recently got a permanent resident visa after more than a year of waiting and will finally be arriving in Toronto in June with my wife.

I´m really fed up with Rio and with Brazil for countless reasons, so Canada seems like a great place to live in peace and in the company of polite people. It´s really a shame when you can no longer stand to live in a beatiful city like this but for me the bad things here outweight the good 1000 to 1.

Although this forum is absolutely awesome for getting to know what a place looks like through the eyes of the people who live there I rarely see something that informs me of what neighborhoods and day to day living is like so this post is answering a lot of questions for me.

I´ve been loking at some places to rent troughout Toronto and the GTA but I´m having a hard time because the pictures in the sites I´ve visited are usually very low quality. I´m wondering if anyone knows of any websites that list good rental properties and what areas are more desirable. Being close to a LCBO or Vintages store is a plus!:cheers:

Thanks!

[Taller Better]

Thank you Hockeyfan for such an informative post and to all who answered.

I´ve recently got a permanent resindent visa after more than a year of waiting and will finally be arriving in Toronto in June with my wife.

I´m really fed up with Rio and with Brazil for countless reasons, so Canada seems like a great place to live in peace and in the company of polite people. It´s really a shame when you can no longer stand to live in a beatiful city like this but for me the bad things here outweight the good 1000 to 1.

Although this forum is absolutely awesome for getting to know what a place looks like through the eyes of the people who live there I rarely see something that informs me of what neighborhoods and day to day living is like so this post is answering a lot of questions for me.

I´ve been loking at some places to rent troughout Toronto and the GTA but I´m having a hard time because the pictures in the sites I´ve visited are usually very low quality. I´m wondering if anyone knows of any websites that list good rental properties and what areas are more desirable. Being close to a LCBO or Vintages store is a plus!:cheers:

Thanks!

LOL! If you know about LCBO and Vintages, you must be familiar already with Toronto! My b/f came here from Brazil and he loves it. Also if you miss some treats from home, there are Brasilian restaurants and grocery stores here to stock up on goodies. You are right, when he moved here it took him quite a while getting used to the relative safety. I think you will be very happy! :tup:

[WHISTLERINMUSKOKA]

HockeyFan, don't move to the burbs. Toronto is turning more and more into a pedestrian city and as a single 30 something male you'll want to be downtown and not in the burbs. $500-$600 k will get you a really nice condo or loft in the core. Here are some links of places you should look at. All in up and coming areas full of 30 somethings. Great investment areas.

http://www.toyfactorylofts.ca/flash.html

http://www.westsidelofts.ca/

http://www.streetcar.ca/index.htm

[WHISTLERINMUSKOKA]

Long youtube video that shows a few areas of town.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0IQNwZ-zsI&mode=related&search=

[tradlak]

I'm a life-long resident of T.O although I have lived in the SoCal (Laguna Beach), Vancouver, Germany, Florida and Poland for periods of time, and I have to say despite our problems (congestion), this is a city that continues to change and fascinate people. The waterfront is undergoing a huge redevelopment and you'll see more parkland there soon hopefully. Toronto proper has lots of great neighbourhoods or we call them villages like the Annex, High Park, Bloor West Village, Leslieville, Beaches etc. These are all great places to live and even spend your weekends.

Suburbs are another story. Unless you have a family and can't afford downtown (which really isn't that expensive for you), stay away from most suburbs as they are dormitories not communities. Streets are dead and the only people you'll see are in cars stuck in gridlock. There are exceptions: consider Unionville in Markham, Downtown Mississauga, Oakville, Port Credit, Woodbridge, North York and I'm sure there are other nice areas, but you will not find streetlife, diversity, variety of things to do in a pedestrian-friendly way north of Lawrence generally...at least not yet. Anyway, other people may like these areas and I can understand that, but these areas would not probably be for you.

Good luck.

BTW. Leslieville - Queen East west of Coxwell, east of Broadview from Lakeshore up to Ivy Avenue, centred around Leslie Avenue is the latest hottest neighbourhood where prices are still good.

[samne]

best places too live in Toronto are on the Bloor or Yonge Subway or Streetcar lines.

Just to let you know, the Mayor plans on planting 1 million more trees in the city.

[mariokarter]

With that kind of money you could get a place in "old toronto" the most inner borough with some nice space, a small driveway, and in a good neighbourhood no problem. I think going to the burbs would only provide marginal space benefits, do you really a 4 car driveway anyways?

[jeicow]

Places in Mississauga you might consider looking at include Port Credit, Clarkson, Lorne Park, Lakeview, or Mississauga City Centre. Essentially, everything in Southern Mississauga (south of QEW perferably unless its on/near Mississauga Road). The rest of the city is still nice, but the south is the best. I've given some brief blurbs on southern Mississauga from East to West. I've liven in all the major parts of So. Sauga during my life, and love it here.

Lakeview: It's the older suburban part of Sauga. It was the first place that sprawl broke over the Toronto borders. The houses are much older compared to other places, and depending on which part you buy in, some are in need of repairs. You more need a car to get around most the area but it's a quick drive to malls/retail strips of the area. It's about 15/20 minutes to downtown Toronto during non-peak times and 40/50 minutes downtown during rush hour. The public bus transit in the area isn't bad and it's on the GO Transit Lakeshore West Line (all the ones I've listed are) so if you want to take the train downtown it's relativly easy. *BTW, anytime you look at house listings that say it's near a GO Train Station, check to see which line station is on, because most lines only have rush hour service. The best GO lines to look at are Lakeshore West of Lakeshore East b/c they have all day service (tho hourly during the day).

Port Credit/Mineola: It's the old village on the lake. It's got a good mix of incomes and the demographics are relativly mixed (tho it's still relativly white/black). It's got more of the small town main street retail going on and most of the stores are independantly owned, but there is easy access to major chains. It's seeing a condo boom at the minute, but it's still relativly affordable. There are a lot of cocktail bars in the area, but not many clubs (still need to head to dt TO for that). There are lots of parks and it's on the waterfront which is nice. You've got a nice selection of condos and houses to choose from. It's a 20/30 minute drive to TO during non-peak times, and 60 minutes during rush hour.

Lorne Park: It's the "ritzy" neighbourhood of Mississauga. It has a more azn/white demographic generally and most people are professionals of some sort (white collar). LP is becoming more ethnic (new buddhist temple opened, lots more "established/well off" immigrants are coming to area). It's near the QEW (highway downtown) and during non-peak times you can be downtown in 20/30 minutes. During rush hour you can be downtown easily in an hour. It's got the better schools, crime isn't a problem, and the people are generally very friendly. Only downsides are that general bus transit in the area is weak though it's close to GO Commuter Rail so it's a quick drive there and a train downtown (it's the next highway exit after Port Credit, and the next GO train stop too). Also, it's older so there are more trees so depending on your allergies it might not work out for you very well. Public Bus transit in the area isn't bad.

Clarkson: There are two "parts" of Clarkson. "Old Clarkson" which is exactly like/sometimes considered a part of Lorne Park. It has a nice retail strip along in the southern section, that includes both major chains and smaller independent stores.

The other part is "new' Clarkson which is the most multi-cultural of the above. It's about 50/50 white/minorities, which most of the minorities being recently arrived immigrants. Most of the houses are smaller but are cheaper in a lot of ways. There are new infill houses going in that are bigger and more affordable. It's got the 2nd best transit of the above (behind Port Credit) and is right next to Lorne Park. It's a quick drive to major stores, and like Lorne Park it's near a GO Train station (same station as Lorne Park (Clarkson)) and takes about 20/30 minutes downtown during non-peak and 60ish minutes during rush hour.

In all honesty, if you do move to Mississauga, most of your shopping (besides corner store stuff and grocerys) would take place either at Square One or Erin Mills Shopping Centre. They're both large malls (not the smaller ones that I see when I go to the US and am amazed that 20 stores constitutes a mall) and are extremely busy. You've got all you middle class stores there and there is currently an influx of upper class stores, however if your an elite shopper (ie. someone willing to spend $200 on a top) your stuck heading downtown for the most part).

If you're searching the MLS listings, all the areas I've indicated are in either W12 or W13, though they include a lot of places I haven't talked about. Just a warning, stay away from Malton and anything west of the airport (well the western runway if you look on google maps). Malton is disconnected from the rest of Mississauga (by the airport) and isn't a nice place to live if you can choose. Anything immideatly west of the airport's runway is in the flight path and despite what the Airport Authority says, flights don't stop by midnight, and it gets annoying (from what I've heard) to hear planes @ 2am on a Monday morning. The N/S runway isn't as big of a concern b/c it's rarely used. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

Sorry for spelling/grammar mistakes. I'm in a rush and not being too careful :P

[icescraper]

HockeyFan, don't move to the burbs. Toronto is turning more and more into a pedestrian city and as a single 30 something male you'll want to be downtown and not in the burbs. $500-$600 k will get you a really nice condo or loft in the core. Here are some links of places you should look at. All in up and coming areas full of 30 somethings. Great investment areas.

http://www.toyfactorylofts.ca/flash.html

http://www.westsidelofts.ca/

http://www.streetcar.ca/index.htm

I couldn't agree with whistler more. The burbs are lifeless for 30 some males unless hanging around shopping malls turns your crank. Toronto has some truely great old loft projects which are truely the best investment in the condo market you could make. 650k-700K could get you a small nice late townhouse in Davisville area. You could get a smaller house with a half decent lot in a "city-suburban" for 500K near dufferin lawrence wilson area. right beside the subway. Not so classy but not a bad hood. - ice

[HockeyFan]

Thanks for all the input, everyone!

I certainly anticipate I'd spend quite a bit of time in the downtown area, regardless of where I live. I tend to be a "mobile" person, and I've always enjoyed downtown Toronto greatly.

I'm also a hockey nut -- not just the Leafs, but the access to so many other teams (especially the OHL) is huge to me. I know I'd be spending many evenings in Mississauga, Brampton, Oshawa, Kitchener, Barrie, Peterborough, and a few other places!

I'm not really a club person by any means, but I enjoy restaurants and bars. Shopping-wise, I can't ever see spending $200 on a shirt or anything like that, but I do enjoy the atmosphere of shopping in a downtown. Still, I'm more comfortable shopping at Sears or Winners than at Holt Renfrew, so the larger suburban malls probably fit my taste (some would argue lack thereof, LOL).

Honestly, I'd enjoy a lot about downtown condos... but, back to allergies. I'm severely allergic to tobacco, and therefore, cigarette smoke. I've avoided the apartment thing since my early 20s, when I used to often drive in my car for hours at night because smoke drifted into my apartment, and weeks of misery would follow otherwise! Hence, the need for more detached housing is present, and I've found it easier to move into new housing -- again, if the previous owners were smokers or had pets, it means a few months of misery and a lot of renovation (which I'm not good at!) before there's no health issues. However, if there's any infill developments (houses or townhomes) in older areas, that would be extremely interesting.

Thanks again everyone!

[mariokarter]

Wow. those sound like some pretty bad allergies. There are lots of fully detached houses in the older areas, not just condos, so you just gotta pick, suburbs or inner city. In california did you live in burbs or city?

[HockeyFan]

The allergies are frustrating, but hey, what can you do -- you learn to use avoidance as much as possible, since the body eventually builds up resistance to most medications. Still, with a little effort, it doesn't have to affect every day life, you just need to be a little more careful.

In California, I'm in the suburbs. The inner cities here are generally a lot higher in crime, so it's not really a place people move into. Although to be honest, it's not nearly as bad as some people think. Places like St. Louis and Kansas City have areas I find scarier than some of the notorious areas of SoCal.

Having said that, some downtown areas in SoCal in places like San Diego, Long Beach, Santa Monica, Glendale, and Pasadena are very nice -- but they are cost prohibitive. When you see a 280 square foot condo (not a typo) selling for 350-400K, that's too rich for my blood! :) Okay, in that exact case, it's a little too small for me, but it's hard to find much under about 700K.. ouch!

[HockeyFan]

One question regarding suburban prices...

It seems to me once you get into Durham Region -- Pickering, Ajax, etc., the prices seem to drop quite a bit. Yet in terms of distance from downtown Toronto, it is not that different from some of the newer areas in Brampton or Oakville.

What causes the difference in prices? Is there something that makes these communities less desirable -- such as traffic patterns, etc., -- or am I imagining the price difference?

Thanks again!

[CharlesMunroe]

I think its because Toronto grew out to the west first. I think the QEW was the first highway built here going from downtown and around the western lake shore right through Oakville and on to Buffalo. That's where the first commuters were and thats where the first sprawl went.

The west also offers quick and easy access to the US through Buffalo and Detroit as well as to Hamilton, Niagara, London and Windsor making it more desireable early on and today. All Durham offered access to was an obsolete Kingston and to Quebec :yuck: .

All major roads in Toronto continue on through York region to the north making it desireable for commuting early on. Durham is kind of northeast of Toronto and the streets don't really line up. East of Toronto is Lake Ontario, east of Northern Scarborough is Durham. For years Durham only had 4 lanes of road going into Toronto. Now, still only 9.

So geographically, the east was always least desireable for commuting and Durham was the last to get the growth and has seen the least infrustructure spending. This has left Durham with a hicksville reputation, lower desireability and lower housing prices.

Commuting downtown from Pickering/Ajax would be far easier then from Brampton and no worse then Oakville, probably faster.

Pickering/Ajax is a hellish sprawlville however. The 401 divides these towns like a mighty river. Industrial to the south and sprawl to the north with only 3 roads crossing it in each city. There are only 2 main east/west streets, one south of the 401 and one north. Trying to drive around there is pretty sickening. There is no downtowns or centerpoints of any kind, just repetitive sprawl.

Other then decent commute times I don't see much to desire about these places. Pickering was named as a growth center and they are developing plans to become more urban so maybe they will have more to offer in the future.

A few miles further east is Oshawa/Whitby where house prices take another tumble. Commuting becomes far worse with the 401 going from 12 lanes to 6 in Ajax. The GO train would get you downtown in under an hour though.

Oshawa is a city of its own and is much less sprawlville-like and has more to offer with an actual feeling of community but is blue collar with kind of a gritty reputation and lower desireabilty. Whitby is half like Oshawa and half just new subdivisions.

A few miles east is Clarington. A collection of 3 towns, subdivisions and tons of farmland. Your 401 commute gets worse, you lose the GO train but keep the bus.

Thats Durham Region's secret to cheap house prices :D . That and being the proud home of 12 nuclear reactors (10 operational) and more to be announced soon might play a role. More then half of these are in a residential neighborhood in Pickering :tup:

[HockeyFan]

Thank you very much for the recap! So it sounds like Durham Region's major faults are transportation, sprawling, lack of central community feel... kind of what I thought might be the case.

What about other central/eastern Toronto suburbs -- particularly Markham, Richmond Hill, and Vaughan? What are those communities like? Again, they seem to offer a lot more options closer to downtown Toronto than Brampton, Oakville, or the newer parts of Mississauga. Nothing against those last three though -- I'm more familiar with them (albeit it 15 years ago) from staying in those areas in past visits, so I guess I have a better perspective of those places... trying to learn more about some of the areas I'm less familiar with as well.

Thanks again!

[LordMandeep]

Mississauga has very few new subdivisions left sa its built out, however its a good place with very easy acess to downtown.

[paul451]

Do you want to stay in the downtown area?

Because some areas of Mississaugau are really nice and have relitevely good bus transportation to the Airport, Go and to then to the TTC.

Its one of the most accesible towns in terms of public transit in the toronto region, from the experience I have had with others.

Paul.

[HockeyFan]

I just anticipate spending a lot of time in the downtown area. I've always enjoyed urban environments, and I have never found one I enjoy more than Toronto. The sports, shopping, restaurants, bars, energy, people, etc. is unparalleled in any suburb, but at the same time, I've never hated living in suburbs. Yet if I'm going to choose between shopping at a suburban mall or Eaton Centre, I'd enjoy the later a lot more. So staying close to downtown is not necessairly a prerequisite, but good access (freeways and transit) is a plus for any area.

[LFRENCH]

haha i'd do it,

i dun live in toronto but am considering the same question. where you live in so-cal?? i lived in norcal south of san fran, and it was expensive at the end of the day toronto looks to be a better deal. if the weather don't get yeah, then you midas well come on up.

[HockeyFan]

I'm living in the San Diego area, but where I am located, I end up spending as much or more time in the LA area than I do in San Diego. Costs are crazy, very similar to NorCal these days. The housing is expensive to say the least, but even some of the month to month costs are high. A utility bill for a 2,600 square foot house can easily run in the $1,000 (USD) range per month -- I don't know what a similar bill would be in Toronto, but I anticipate it would be less than that.

On the bright side, hockey tickets are cheap in SoCal! :cheers:

[LordMandeep]

lets see in the winter time the gas bill for a 3000 sq foot house can be $400, hydro $120, water $60-70, so about $600 in the winter.

Summer is hydro $200, water around $80-90 and Gas around $100-150, so about $450 in the summer.

IN the spring it can be only $350 for our house.


I live outside Toronto, but there can't be too much of a difference.


However this is only gas water and hydro...

[HockeyFan]

Thanks for the numbers!