[cllew]

The CP Transcona lead on Hwy 59 services the Star Building ready to move homes factory. You see a few of the center beam flat cars filled with lumber in their compound from time to time each month.

There is also going to be a NEW crossing on HWY 15 between the East Perimeter and HWY 207 to service the new hydro station at the end of bipole 3 next to the floodway.

The environmental impact report for the project stated that the tracks will be left on both sides of highway 15 but the crossing will be removed once the new transformers have been delivered and accepted as working. The crossing would go back in if and when the transformers have to be taken back out for service in the future years.

The reason for the removal is the Highways department is requiring the crossing to be signaled if it was to be left in and Manitoba Hydro / CN did not want to pay the monthly cost for that as it would be only used a few times a century. I think Highway were willing to allow the crossing to be "flagged" during the delivery period instead of signals.

[GORDBO]

The CP Transcona lead on Hwy 59 services the Star Building ready to move homes factory. You see a few of the center beam flat cars filled with lumber in their compound from time to time each month.

There is also going to be a NEW crossing on HWY 15 between the East Perimeter and HWY 207 to service the new hydro station at the end of bipole 3 next to the floodway.

The environmental impact report for the project stated that the tracks will be left on both sides of highway 15 but the crossing will be removed once the new transformers have been delivered and accepted as working. The crossing would go back in if and when the transformers have to be taken back out for service in the future years.

The reason for the removal is the Highways department is requiring the crossing to be signaled if it was to be left in and Manitoba Hydro / CN did not want to pay the monthly cost for that as it would be only used a few times a century. I think Highway were willing to allow the crossing to be "flagged" during the delivery period instead of signals.



was wondering why they'd put a crossing there. only thing south of hwy 15 in that area is the water resevoirs

[alittle1]

was wondering why they'd put a crossing there. only thing south of hwy 15 in that area is the water resevoirs

And, the GWWDRR has there own railway cars and a bridge across the floodway, but, it is not the same gauge as the CN tracks.

Hydro in its wisdom, doesn't think trucks can haul the transformers from the CN line, so they built their own rail line to be used once or twice a century. The extra 10 bucks will be added each month to your Hydro bill for the next 10 years. Manitoba Hydro, the wizards of wire.

[rrskylar]

Got stuck turning (trying to turn) from the CP Trail extension onto Gateway north once again, wonder who the brainiac was that thought eliminating two lanes of Raleigh and leaving two lanes on Gateway to Sun Valley was adequate for that amount of traffic. Winnipeg transportation motto should be " building it half-assed the first time so that we can re-do it three years later"!

As I mentioned before, have also seen traffic routinely backed up from the CP Trail extension to Grassie on Lag., where exactly did city traffic planners expect this substantial increase in traffic think the added cars would go?

[cllew]

[QUOTE=alittle1;5704221]And, the GWWDRR has there own railway cars and a bridge across the floodway, but, it is not the same gauge as the CN tracks.


GWWD is standard gauge rail, they interchange off of Dawson Road tank cars full of chemicals for the Deacon treatment plant with CN and CP .

The reason Hydro is not using GWWD is the track and bridge over the floodway can not take the weight of the new transformers. The railway was designed to branch line standards not main line ones.

I tried to find the report that was filed about the rail delivery options but it has expired off of the Manitoba Conservation web site.

As for the rail spur costs, I bet it would cost as much if not more to construct a proper concrete road to hold the weight of the transformers from the CN Transcona main line into the station. PR 207 was only upgraded (paid for by the city of Winnipeg) in load capacity from Highway #1 to the water treatment plant entrance to allow it to be built.

[cllew]

As for the Peguis extension now that Canada One RV is gone the city should buy the building and land as it runs from Ravelston to Regent and it runs right beside where it was suppose to go before that block of land was turned into a tall grass nature reserve.

[Biff]

As for the Peguis extension now that Canada One RV is gone the city should buy the building and land as it runs from Ravelston to Regent and it runs right beside where it was suppose to go before that block of land was turned into a tall grass nature reserve.

The City is planning to use that exact right of way (Bradley St) to connect the Edward Schreyer Parkway to Regent. Apparently there is enough room - i would imagine eliminating the ditches, to run 4 lanes into Regent.

[alittle1]

[QUOTE=alittle1;5704221]And, the GWWDRR has there own railway cars and a bridge across the floodway, but, it is not the same gauge as the CN tracks.


GWWD is standard gauge rail, they interchange off of Dawson Road tank cars full of chemicals for the Deacon treatment plant with CN and CP .

The reason Hydro is not using GWWD is the track and bridge over the floodway can not take the weight of the new transformers. The railway was designed to branch line standards not main line ones.

Balderdash! That railway bridge was built to the same standards as every other bridge built over the floodway in 1964 to 1966. I have watched a 100 loaded gravel cars pass over that bridge and its still standing. Who is to say that ALL the transformers have to be brought over the bridge at the same time? In your opinion, what weighs more, a transformer or a grain elevator? Ever hear of multi-tired trucks with up to 72 tires per truck.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJEWHNh-R4I & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqPoQD3vOZE&feature=related
I tried to find the report that was filed about the rail delivery options but it has expired off of the Manitoba Conservation web site.

As for the rail spur costs, I bet it would cost as much if not more to construct a proper concrete road to hold the weight of the transformers from the CN Transcona main line into the station. PR 207 was only upgraded (paid for by the city of Winnipeg) in load capacity from Highway #1 to the water treatment plant entrance to allow it to be built.

And, the Northern half of PR207 from GWWD tracks to Dugald Rd. was paid for by me and every other tax paying Manitoban, which was used 99% of the time by trucks, cranes, and machinery that went to the Hydro property. I fact, the Chabot trucks that hauled rip-rap to Hydro, used the Municipal road one mile east, turned on to Southwyn Rd. and crossed 207 to get there, because of road restrictions on 207. In the process, they cut up the unpaved side road so bad that the RM had to rebuild the corners and re-gravel them at Taxpayers expense.

Just for argument's sake, Hydro hauled in limestone from Stonewall for TWO years and covered over 1000 acres of farm land with a layer SIX FEET thick of rip-rap and limestone (3" and down) to make the area in question suitable for their transfer station. Why didn't they just build the f'ing thing at Stonewall and save the gas, haulage and raw materials. The short answer: Hydro thinks it is King Shit and can do no wrong. Your great-grandchildren will be paying for this project.

Okay, rant over. And how was your day?

[alittle1]

As for the Peguis extension now that Canada One RV is gone the city should buy the building and land as it runs from Ravelston to Regent and it runs right beside where it was suppose to go before that block of land was turned into a tall grass nature reserve.

The tall grass prairie located on the east side of (Constant Macaroni, Uncle Ben's Brewery, Coldstream, and other noteable businesses) Canada One is a Councillor Rick Boychuk felicity of misinformation and bullscript. When the Bradley property was acquired in the early 1960's by Metro, it was filled and leveled to grade from sources in the area. In the mid-60's, it was used for test plots by the Weed Control Branch to test soil sterilents and weed control compounds. First testing was done by Sam Hutchings, a weed inspector, the last testing was done by myself in 1974. The only original part of the property not used was a patch about 10 X 100 feet on the NW corner.

The property is no more tall grass prairie then the cricket field at City Park or the Saskatchewan Avenue dump at Westview service yard. So, have at 'er, boys, build a road there as you see fit.

[cllew]

The City is planning to use that exact right of way (Bradley St) to connect the Edward Schreyer Parkway to Regent. Apparently there is enough room - i would imagine eliminating the ditches, to run 4 lanes into Regent.

Thanks for the information.

For some reason I was thinking the Schreyer Parkway was connecting into Plessis by the MPI compound because the original ROW had been lost to the tall grass reserve.

[Biff]

Thanks for the information.

For some reason I was thinking the Schreyer Parkway was connecting into Plessis by the MPI compound because the original ROW had been lost to the tall grass reserve.


Hey, if you ask me your idea makes more sense. They have just finished upgrading Plessis to a 4 lane divided roadway and it actually connects to something - a new Plessis Underpass. The Edward Schreyer Parkway will run parallel to Plessis no more than 3/4 of a km away dead ending at Regent.

.......good old City planning for ya.

[cllew]

I was wrong and Alittle1 was right, Hydro and Highways partnered to improve 207 north of the Deacon treatment plant.

I found a one line reference to highway 207 infrastructure improvement partnership in an environment report that was still online.

They sure don't make it easy to find things like this.

[original]

Those lights that CPT added to Lag made the NB flow of traffic just awful.

I was traveling NB and the traffic at the Grassie lights was backed up almost all the way to the Concordia overpass. This was Thursday afternoon at about 1:30pm. During rush hour, the traffic backs up to the Concordia overpass. Not to mention causes gridlock at Grassie when the short stretch between Grassie and CPT gets full of traffic.

Is anything going to be done about this? It took 5 or 6 red lights to get thru on Thursday afternoon. Does this amount of traffic not permit an overpass? What were they thinking putting a new at grade intersection so close to Springfield and Grassie?

I know I'm just ranting, and the reality is nothing will get done about this major traffic issue for many many years. :cheers:

[rrskylar]

Those lights that CPT added to Lag made the NB flow of traffic just awful.

I was traveling NB and the traffic at the Grassie lights was backed up almost all the way to the Concordia overpass. This was Thursday afternoon at about 1:30pm. During rush hour, the traffic backs up to the Concordia overpass. Not to mention causes gridlock at Grassie when the short stretch between Grassie and CPT gets full of traffic.

Is anything going to be done about this? It took 5 or 6 red lights to get thru on Thursday afternoon. Does this amount of traffic not permit an overpass? What were they thinking putting a new at grade intersection so close to Springfield and Grassie?

I know I'm just ranting, and the reality is nothing will get done about this major traffic issue for many many years. :cheers:

Your preaching to the choir here, not only is Lag. a clusterfuck, so is Gateway now (traffic reduced from 4 lanes N and S down to two with the elmination of Raleigh betweem Springfield and McIvor) Gateway now heavily congested , traffic turning off Lag. to Grassie now backs up to the CPT extension, poor planning at it's best brought to you by the city of Winnipeg traffic dept.


Lag. was fine with four lanes when it was built back in the mid 1960's unfortunatly it can no longer handle the volume of traffic at peak times now, stretches of Lag. should have been built to 6 lanes long ago. Maybe the city of Winnipeg could hire some traffic engineers from Fargo or Saskatoon to help us improve our current
roadways to at least 1990 standards.

[original]

Lag. was fine with four lanes when it was built back in the mid 1960's unfortunatly it can no longer handle the volume of traffic at peak times now, stretches of Lag. should have been built to 6 lanes long ago. Maybe the city of Winnipeg could hire some traffic engineers from Fargo or Saskatoon to help us improve our current
roadways to at least 1990 standards.

From what I can tell, the CPR overpass by Regent has 6 lanes right over the bridge. It cuts out to 2 right after the bridge ends. Was this done intentionally to somewhat future-proof for a 6 lane Lag? I think another lane in each direction would be great start for improving Lag.

Speaking of improvements, their finally resurfacing Lag from the Concordia overpass to Reenders Dr. They got rid of that left handed fault in the road surface that caused your vehicle to veer in and out of the center median. That was so awful for so many years... Unfortunately, it seems to be taking them forever to do this small stretch.

[Spocket]

The tall grass prairie located on the east side of (Constant Macaroni, Uncle Ben's Brewery, Coldstream, and other noteable businesses) Canada One is a Councillor Rick Boychuk felicity of misinformation and bullscript. When the Bradley property was acquired in the early 1960's by Metro, it was filled and leveled to grade from sources in the area. In the mid-60's, it was used for test plots by the Weed Control Branch to test soil sterilents and weed control compounds. First testing was done by Sam Hutchings, a weed inspector, the last testing was done by myself in 1974. The only original part of the property not used was a patch about 10 X 100 feet on the NW corner.

The property is no more tall grass prairie then the cricket field at City Park or the Saskatchewan Avenue dump at Westview service yard. So, have at 'er, boys, build a road there as you see fit.

You know , it's funny that you point this out because I've always thought it was exceptionally strange that this little patch of land somehow managed to go completely unutilized despite being surround by heavy industrial for years .

I remember years ago when they first announced that this parcel of grass basically tossed the city's long term traffic plan out the window and thinking to myself "If it's so special , why does it look exactly like every other unused plot of land ?"

Unfortunately , the city has sold off a rather important plot south of Regent that makes a direct extension of the ESP somewhat pointless . The city rejigged the whole thing and seems to have settled on rerouting the E. S. Parkway eastward to join up with Panet . Unless they've changed the plan again and decided there's no need for a south-eastern leg of the inner beltway .

[Biff]

Maybe the city of Winnipeg could hire some traffic engineers from Fargo or Saskatoon to help us improve our current
roadways to at least 1990 standards.

I feel bad for anyone who comes out of school with a civil engineering degree hoping to become a traffic engineer. rrskylar I'm sure they know how to properly design city streets an highways. It musy be the most frustrating job in the world to design an intersection properly (grade separated) only to be told tha we don't have the money for that, now go back and design it with as many stop lights as you can.

[The Jabroni]

Just to get a handle on what everybody is talking about so far... (and as previously posted many pages back, albeit slightly different)

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/276/eastwpg.png

The purple line is the proposed route of Chief Peguis Trail, extending towards the Perimeter.

The yellow line is Ed Schreyer Parkway.

The red area is the so-called "protected area" with that rare species of... whatever.

The blue area is the Vickar Chevrolet/Mitsubishi dealership.

The orange area is the in-filled housing.

The yellow area are apartments.

Had those areas not been occupied, ESP would have extended all the way down south through those areas and realign with Plessis. Now that those areas have been occupied, ESP could either realign with Ravelston Ave. West, just north of the red protected area which would eventually terminate at Plessis, or Bradley St., directly west of the protected area, and then ESP would terminate at Regent. The problem with that is justifying the ESP route when Plessis is not too far away.

So yes, it's quite a mess on how our transportation network is less-than-stellar.

As for the traffic northbound Lagimodiere on Grassie, it's a major mess. The lights on Grassie are far too short with the amount of volume traffic tossed around. Then you have Gateway and McLeod being a mess on its own.

...and this again brings up a wider, broader, and bigger issue on money. It's agreed that our roads need to be fixed, but that obviously comes at a cost. Then you have people who complain that our taxes are too high. Yes, that is true to some extent as well. It's another topic to discuss, but it's these clashing mindsets that make everything here a deadlock, or at the very least, progress at a snails pace.

[EastK]

Just to get a handle on what everybody is talking about so far... (and as previously posted many pages back, albeit slightly different)

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/276/eastwpg.png

The purple line is the proposed route of Chief Peguis Trail, extending towards the Perimeter.

The yellow line is Ed Schreyer Parkway.

The red area is the so-called "protected area" with that rare species of... whatever.

The blue area is the Vickar Chevrolet/Mitsubishi dealership.

The orange area is the in-filled housing.

The yellow area are apartments.

Had those areas not been occupied, ESP would have extended all the way down south through those areas and realign with Plessis. Now that those areas have been occupied, ESP could either realign with Ravelston Ave. West, just north of the red protected area which would eventually terminate at Plessis, or Bradley St., directly west of the protected area, and then ESP would terminate at Regent. The problem with that is justifying the ESP route when Plessis is not too far away.

So yes, it's quite a mess on how our transportation network is less-than-stellar.

As for the traffic northbound Lagimodiere on Grassie, it's a major mess. The lights on Grassie are far too short with the amount of volume traffic tossed around. Then you have Gateway and McLeod being a mess on its own.

...and this again brings up a wider, broader, and bigger issue on money. It's agreed that our roads need to be fixed, but that obviously comes at a cost. Then you have people who complain that our taxes are too high. Yes, that is true to some extent as well. It's another topic to discuss, but it's these clashing mindsets that make everything here a deadlock, or at the very least, progress at a snails pace.

I still am trying to comprehend why the city thinks it is necessary to build the ESP when Lag is still such a gong show. I am no engineer but wouldn't 2 or 3 diamond interchanges on Lag cost around the same amount as building (as your map shows) a road which will end in front of a car dealership?

[rrskylar]

I feel bad for anyone who comes out of school with a civil engineering degree hoping to become a traffic engineer. rrskylar I'm sure they know how to properly design city streets an highways. It musy be the most frustrating job in the world to design an intersection properly (grade separated) only to be told tha we don't have the money for that, now go back and design it with as many stop lights as you can.

I hear you, obviously city engineers are hampered by a lack of funding and the political will to do things the right way the first time. I just find it astonishing that city planners have allowed Lag. to become such a shit show, leaving the intersection with traffic signals intact at Lag. and Springfield was proof at just how inept our city planners (or politicians) truly are.

[Biff]

I hear you, obviously city engineers are hampered by a lack of funding and the political will to do things the right way the first time. I just find it astonishing that city planners have allowed Lag. to become such a shit show, leaving the intersection with traffic signals intact at Lag. and Springfield was proof at just how inept our city planners (or politicians) truly are.

Believe me, i agree with you 100%. They have completely fucked up Lag and will continue to make it worse. I am no traffic engineer but adding more turn lanes at each light is like trying to put a band-aid on an amputation. The only way i can see them fixing it is by grade separating the majority of the intersections.

We all know when that will happen......with the City as backwards as it is, they will start grade separating our highways right when flying cars become common place.

[cllew]

I hear you, obviously city engineers are hampered by a lack of funding and the political will to do things the right way the first time. I just find it astonishing that city planners have allowed Lag. to become such a shit show, leaving the intersection with traffic signals intact at Lag. and Springfield was proof at just how inept our city planners (or politicians) truly are.

Springfield signals were left in place I believe because it is the west end of the truck route that comes out on the east side of hwy 101 via Gunn Road.

Having Kilcona park off of Springfield and also all the traffic coming out of the Kitchen Craft plant at quitting time may have also factored into it.

[cllew]

talking about placement of traffic signals sometimes they get added or not removed for political reasons.

Watt St. and Washington Ave is a good example. In June 1961 The City of East Kildonan paid to have school hour signals installed after a young boy was killed there.

This is after the Metro Corp said the traffic counts did not warrant having them with another set of signals at Munroe being 2 blocks north.

Fast forward to June 2004 and the city administration recommends the signals be removed and replaced with a pedestrian corridor to allow safe crossings 24 hours a day.

Councilor Lillian Thomas moved that the signals could go as long as principal at the school a few blocks away agreed.

The signals are still there so I guess that a school administrator with no background in traffic management said no to removing them.

[alittle1]

Springfield signals were left in place I believe because it is the west end of the truck route that comes out on the east side of hwy 101 via Gunn Road.

Having Kilcona park off of Springfield and also all the traffic coming out of the Kitchen Craft plant at quitting time may have also factored into it.

Where have you ever seen the City give a crap about the worker's ride home? Unless the workers are heading down to buy a car from Larry Vickar, ESP won't do them a damn bit of good. If they came off the CP roadway right where the sheep farmer is at Plessis and Grassie, knocked down the six houses that should have never been built there and then added two more lanes to Plessis all the way to Hwy #1; then you would have a roadway for the next 25 years.

The problem with the City is, they are always trying to get someone else to pay for it. The people of Winnipeg have to own-up-to-it, we need NEW roadways to carry the traffic in this city properly and the people of this city have to understand that. This isn't St.James where you have a Portage Ave. running right to downtown with six to eight lanes, this is left turn, right turn, deadend, around the bend, through the woods to Gramma's house EK/Transcona. Nothing runs straight here!

Back in the 60's when we had METRO, the Road Builders, directing things in this town; we received some of the benifits in the North/South East. St.James, River Heights, Fort Garry received the bounty, because of their population growth and devine intervention by the all mighty power of GREASE. The influential could almost phone up Bonnycastle and order a road.

The City of Winnipeg, at the same time period, just went about paving its back lanes in the North and West ends. The Other Seven Cities except for St.James, just spent their time filling potholes and grading gravel roads. St.James was the only City that entered amalgamation with a surplus in its coffers and demanded that the monies be spent for their betterment, which it was.

It is my feeling that road building should be taken out of the hands of the City and entrusted to a more capable arms-length authority that would be more suitable to the future needs of the City and the Province. Because ALL people of Manitoba use the Streets of Winnipeg, ALL the people of Manitoba should pay for the Major roadways.

Do others see this differently?

[Biff]

My theory is we should use some of the model that the USA uses (i know they are in a shitload of trouble right now, but....). The Federal Govt should maintain and upgrade Hwy 1 from border to border to freeway standards and the same for Hwy 75 from Emerson to the Perimeter (major truck routes). The Province should maintain the Perimeter, Hwy 59, Route 90, Bishop Grandin and Chief Peguis all to freeway standards (major truck routes). The City is responsible for all the remainder of the streets within its boundary's.

This way the feds operate a major north/south and east/west highway in the Province. The Province then handles all major hwy trucking routes in the Winnipeg metro area.

Just my 2 cents.

[Bdog]

We all know when that will happen......with the City as backwards as it is, they will start grade separating our highways right when flying cars become common place.

Gold!

[Bdog]

My theory is we should use some of the model that the USA uses (i know they are in a shitload of trouble right now, but....). The Federal Govt should maintain and upgrade Hwy 1 from border to border to freeway standards and the same for Hwy 75 from Emerson to the Perimeter (major truck routes). The Province should maintain the Perimeter, Hwy 59, Route 90, Bishop Grandin and Chief Peguis all to freeway standards (major truck routes). The City is responsible for all the remainder of the streets within its boundary's.

This way the feds operate a major north/south and east/west highway in the Province. The Province then handles all major hwy trucking routes in the Winnipeg metro area.

Just my 2 cents.

Very interesting. I like the idea of the province maintaining the inner-ring road - it would provide an incentive to keep it limited access (similar to how MIT has been protecting the Perimeter for some time now). Freeway standards for the ringroad is likely impossible at this point - not even in terms of cost (which would be hundreds of millions, considering there are several dozen at grade intersections on the ring-road). The real problem is that much of the land around the intersections is already heavily built up, making on-ramps, or even simple flyovers impossible. Grading would be impossible without expropriating tonnes of private land, especially along routes like Kenaston. Relocation of utilities would also be a nightmare, and the cost of building a pumping station every few hundred metres would be prohibitive, I'd think.

[Techman224]

My theory is we should use some of the model that the USA uses (i know they are in a shitload of trouble right now, but....). The Federal Govt should maintain and upgrade Hwy 1 from border to border to freeway standards and the same for Hwy 75 from Emerson to the Perimeter (major truck routes). The Province should maintain the Perimeter, Hwy 59, Route 90, Bishop Grandin and Chief Peguis all to freeway standards (major truck routes). The City is responsible for all the remainder of the streets within its boundary's.

This way the feds operate a major north/south and east/west highway in the Province. The Province then handles all major hwy trucking routes in the Winnipeg metro area.

Just my 2 cents.

I would also put the Perimeter Highway under the Federal government, as it is important as the only high-speed bypass of the city. The whole Perimeter is currently a core route of the NHS.

[The Jabroni]

Very interesting. I like the idea of the province maintaining the inner-ring road - it would provide an incentive to keep it limited access (similar to how MIT has been protecting the Perimeter for some time now). Freeway standards for the ringroad is likely impossible at this point - not even in terms of cost (which would be hundreds of millions, considering there are several dozen at grade intersections on the ring-road). The real problem is that much of the land around the intersections is already heavily built up, making on-ramps, or even simple flyovers impossible. Grading would be impossible without expropriating tonnes of private land, especially along routes like Kenaston. Relocation of utilities would also be a nightmare, and the cost of building a pumping station every few hundred metres would be prohibitive, I'd think.

That's pretty much the billion dollar question. Yes, billion with a b!

[alittle1]

That's pretty much the billion dollar question. Yes, billion with a b!

And why would you start worrying about that now. Its not your problem, your children and grandchildren are going to be paying for the rest of their lives and maybe their children too.

Believe it or not, Manitoba's only hope is to start charging others for the right to pass through here. There is only one way from East to West and that is the #1 HWY. Put in the proper roadway and then charge the bastards that use the roadway. Did I just say, TOLL ROAD?

[The Jabroni]

^Perhaps we are already doomed... 20 years ago. Everything else is just icing on the cake from this point on. :shrug:

[Biff]

I would also put the Perimeter Highway under the Federal government, as it is important as the only high-speed bypass of the city. The whole Perimeter is currently a core route of the NHS.

Yeah, i was thinking the feds should run the Perimeter too. My justification for the Province to run it was to try and be fair to the feds for maintaining 1 N/S and 1 E/W highway in each Province. This to TRY and avoid petty inter-provincial squabbles over percentage of federal money.

Very interesting. I like the idea of the province maintaining the inner-ring road - it would provide an incentive to keep it limited access (similar to how MIT has been protecting the Perimeter for some time now). Freeway standards for the ring road is likely impossible at this point - not even in terms of cost (which would be hundreds of millions, considering there are several dozen at grade intersections on the ring-road). The real problem is that much of the land around the intersections is already heavily built up, making on-ramps, or even simple flyovers impossible. Grading would be impossible without expropriating tonnes of private land, especially along routes like Kenaston. Relocation of utilities would also be a nightmare, and the cost of building a pumping station every few hundred metres would be prohibitive, I'd think.

I know making the inner ring road limited access would be cost prohibitive but if you start to do it where you can it will make it a bit better. There are definitely places where it could be done fairly easily and relatively inexpensively (as overpass construction goes). Almost all of Bishop would be easy to do limited access. Kenaston to the underpass should be fairly easy. Lag could be easy up to the Marion area. I don't want to look down on people or areas of lower income but the City/Province could expropriate most of those run down houses (with tarps as roofing material) between Marion and Dugald and come up with one proper interchange there (closing Marion at Lag). Lag and Regent is already being contemplated. North Lag shouldn't be too difficult either.

Believe me, i know it wont happen, I'm just saying.....

......and the Perimeter shouldn't be too bad. Most intersections would only require simple diamond interchanges (recently estimated at between $10 and $20 million each). So if the Province could devote, say $40 mill each other year they could probably do 2 per year. Within 10 to 20 years you could have the perimeter done.

[pollswpg]

Yeah, i was thinking the feds should run the Perimeter too. My justification for the Province to run it was to try and be fair to the feds for maintaining 1 N/S and 1 E/W highway in each Province. This to TRY and avoid petty inter-provincial squabbles over percentage of federal money.



I know making the inner ring road limited access would be cost prohibitive but if you start to do it where you can it will make it a bit better. There are definitely places where it could be done fairly easily and relatively inexpensively (as overpass construction goes). Almost all of Bishop would be easy to do limited access. Kenaston to the underpass should be fairly easy. Lag could be easy up to the Marion area. I don't want to look down on people or areas of lower income but the City/Province could expropriate most of those run down houses (with tarps as roofing material) between Marion and Dugald and come up with one proper interchange there (closing Marion at Lag). Lag and Regent is already being contemplated. North Lag shouldn't be too difficult either.

Believe me, i know it wont happen, I'm just saying.....

......and the Perimeter shouldn't be too bad. Most intersections would only require simple diamond interchanges (recently estimated at between $10 and $20 million each). So if the Province could devote, say $40 mill each other year they could probably do 2 per year. Within 10 to 20 years you could have the perimeter done.

Since South Kenaston would be so difficult to work with...what about just expanding Bishop Grandin further west?

Then the inner ring road could loop up north/west passing the currently undeveloped land west of Fort Whyte? It could easily connect up with the proposed Moray extention to Wilkes.

I assume it would save on expropriation costs (is farm land cheaper to expropriatiate than residential properties?) and there would be more room to develop diamond interchanges...although that's wishful thinking.

edit: I forgot my plan would run into the RM on the south-west side of the city...therefore not really being within Winnipeg, I guess.

[Biff]

Since South Kenaston would be so difficult to work with...what about just expanding Bishop Grandin further west?

Then the inner ring road could loop up north/west passing the currently undeveloped land west of Fort Whyte? It could easily connect up with the proposed Moray extention to Wilkes.

I assume it would save on expropriation costs (is farm land cheaper to expropriatiate than residential properties?) and there would be more room to develop diamond interchanges...although that's wishful thinking.

edit: I forgot my plan would run into the RM on the south-west side of the city...therefore not really being within Winnipeg, I guess.

No, actually, you are right. That is the future plan - extend Bishop west to curve around Fort Whyte and connect up with the William Clement Parkway. They are already planning for this in the design for the new flyover they will be building next year at the corner of Kenaston SB and Bishop Grandin WB.

[alittle1]

Since South Kenaston would be so difficult to work with...what about just expanding Bishop Grandin further west?

Then the inner ring road could loop up north/west passing the currently undeveloped land west of Fort Whyte? It could easily connect up with the proposed Moray extention to Wilkes.

There is a golf course in the way, but hell just put up condos to buffer the traffic noise. It's doable.

I assume it would save on expropriation costs (is farm land cheaper to expropriatiate than residential properties?) and there would be more room to develop diamond interchanges...although that's wishful thinking.

The Anseeuw Bros. sold that land to the developers back in '79. The 'farm land' is rented waiting for development.

edit: I forgot my plan would run into the RM on the south-west side of the city...therefore not really being within Winnipeg, I guess.

The City is in full control of any land contained within the perimeter, and the provincial rubber stamp get applied at their say-so.



You still need someone to control the City an Province on some of the anal moves that they make.

[Bdog]

I know making the inner ring road limited access would be cost prohibitive but if you start to do it where you can it will make it a bit better. There are definitely places where it could be done fairly easily and relatively inexpensively (as overpass construction goes). Almost all of Bishop would be easy to do limited access. Kenaston to the underpass should be fairly easy. Lag could be easy up to the Marion area. I don't want to look down on people or areas of lower income but the City/Province could expropriate most of those run down houses (with tarps as roofing material) between Marion and Dugald and come up with one proper interchange there (closing Marion at Lag). Lag and Regent is already being contemplated. North Lag shouldn't be too difficult either.

Believe me, i know it wont happen, I'm just saying.....

......and the Perimeter shouldn't be too bad. Most intersections would only require simple diamond interchanges (recently estimated at between $10 and $20 million each). So if the Province could devote, say $40 mill each other year they could probably do 2 per year. Within 10 to 20 years you could have the perimeter done.

Definitely agreeing with most of what you're saying. While doing Bishop would for sure be easier than Century, I'm wondering how much prime land would have to be expropriated. While the north side of Bishop is ROW, the south side (at key intersections) would need to be expropriated for the grading. Also, intersections along Southdale and Island lakes would pose logistical challenges because of the T intersections. As for the price, $10 M seems on the extreme low end. Pump stations alone would likely be about $5 - 8$ M, and utility relocation (in areas like River Heights, lets say) would be quite costly as well.

But I agree that devoting a set, yearly amount for interchanges would be a great move. Then, interchanges could be tackled based on priority (e.g. Lag/Regent, and soon, Bishop/Waverley). Key interchanges would be nice, even if an entire free-flowing ring-road is out of reach.

[roccerfeller]

My theory is we should use some of the model that the USA uses (i know they are in a shitload of trouble right now, but....). The Federal Govt should maintain and upgrade Hwy 1 from border to border to freeway standards and the same for Hwy 75 from Emerson to the Perimeter (major truck routes). The Province should maintain the Perimeter, Hwy 59, Route 90, Bishop Grandin and Chief Peguis all to freeway standards (major truck routes). The City is responsible for all the remainder of the streets within its boundary's.

This way the feds operate a major north/south and east/west highway in the Province. The Province then handles all major hwy trucking routes in the Winnipeg metro area.

Just my 2 cents.


Very much agree with this. That would be very straight forward.

[Biff]

Definitely agreeing with most of what you're saying. While doing Bishop would for sure be easier than Century, I'm wondering how much prime land would have to be expropriated. While the north side of Bishop is ROW, the south side (at key intersections) would need to be expropriated for the grading. Also, intersections along Southdale and Island lakes would pose logistical challenges because of the T intersections. As for the price, $10 M seems on the extreme low end. Pump stations alone would likely be about $5 - 8$ M, and utility relocation (in areas like River Heights, lets say) would be quite costly as well.

But I agree that devoting a set, yearly amount for interchanges would be a great move. Then, interchanges could be tackled based on priority (e.g. Lag/Regent, and soon, Bishop/Waverley). Key interchanges would be nice, even if an entire free-flowing ring-road is out of reach.

The $10 to $20 million figure is for simple diamond interchanges on the Perimeter. No need for lift stations and ample room for ramps. Yes it would be a different story for tighter areas in the city.

I think the solution for the Royalwood and Island Lake "T" intersections would be for Bishop to go over a simple half diamond interchange. This would alleviate the lack of distance for approach work into the sub-divisions. There is ample room all along Bishop for detours on the nature areas. They can restore it after construction ins over.


......at the end of the day, it is fun to talk about, playing traffic engineer but we all know very little of this will ever get done.

[Mininari]

......at the end of the day, it is fun to talk about, playing traffic engineer but we all know very little of this will ever get done.

Which is why if we ever want to see any major federal investment into roads around here, we need to hope that CentrePort Canada takes off in the coming years and attracts some new manufacturing / transportation companies. That coupled with the various north-south CANAMEXtrade corridors could help the city & Province make the case for federally funded improvements to Hwy 1, 101 and 75 to help support the whole scheme. Federal funding typically gets allocated to things that have a net benefit to the whole economy (especially with our current government), and if we can show a net benefit to the country by building up CentrePort, then we may be eligible for some funding via programs like the Asia-Pacific Gateway Initiative. Example: The South Fraser Perimeter Road and new Pitt River Bridge in the GVRD received federal money under this auspice, both since they are critical pieces of infrastructure that are missing to support the transportation / Port activities on the coast. The SFPR is the missing highway link between Highway 1 / 91 / 99 and Deltaport (unfortunately its not being built as a full freeway now, but is planned to be one day). Point is, the squeaky economic wheel gets the grease, and we need to get ours going before it gets squeaky.

[cllew]

All along Bishop Grandin on the North side next to the nature reserve, there is the Branch II aqueduct that goes to the water storage reservoir @ Waverly and Wilkes. If Bishop was expanded wider to the north, I don't know if the aqueduct was designed to withstand that ground load over it.

Any time there is work done near branch I (the original one to McPhillips) or Branch II (vintage 1960's) the city gets very particular as to the type of digging near them or driving construction equipment over them.

[alittle1]

Which is why if we ever want to see any major federal investment into roads around here, we need to hope that CentrePort Canada takes off in the coming years and attracts some new manufacturing / transportation companies. That coupled with the various north-south CANAMEXtrade corridors could help the city & Province make the case for federally funded improvements to Hwy 1, 101 and 75 to help support the whole scheme. Federal funding typically gets allocated to things that have a net benefit to the whole economy (especially with our current government), and if we can show a net benefit to the country by building up CentrePort, then we may be eligible for some funding via programs like the Asia-Pacific Gateway Initiative. Example: The South Fraser Perimeter Road and new Pitt River Bridge in the GVRD received federal money under this auspice, both since they are critical pieces of infrastructure that are missing to support the transportation / Port activities on the coast. The SFPR is the missing highway link between Highway 1 / 91 / 99 and Deltaport (unfortunately its not being built as a full freeway now, but is planned to be one day). Point is, the squeaky economic wheel gets the grease, and we need to get ours going before it gets squeaky.

Apparently, some people don't read posts thoroughly, perhaps we should put in more paragraphs.

It's always been about the G R E A S E ! This town has always been this way since people were living in tents. Even Duff Roblin's old man built the 'invisible bridge' back in the 20's. The 'Lege' building was also corrupt politicians trying to make a buck. If I had all the whiskey that was bought by all the construction companies, I could float the Paddle wheel Queen and the Rouge with it.

There is no way that you can compare Vancouver with Winnipeg. The last time they came close was back in 1948. Winnipeggers, in order to survive, have to have hard-core manufacturing done here(period). CANAMEXtrade and CentrePort will do nothing substantial for Winnipeg, except create a few jobs and add some buildings. You need some bricks and mortar, back up with machinery that spins Manitoba raw materials into GOLD.

The focal point of Winnipeg is its geographical position. As I said in other posts, tax the bastards that make use of our services. The roads across this Province should be paid for by all of Canada, because we are the only way across this Country. Every rail car that passes through Winnipeg, should be taxed. We have to build over/under passes to accommodate our surface traffic and the railways. We, the people, have to put up with the inconvenience of the rail lines as they pass through the City and our communities. The Railways constantly tell us that they are moving out, yet, over a hundred years later, they are still here. Make them pay to stay.

[Mininari]

Apparently, some people don't read posts thoroughly, perhaps we should put in more paragraphs.

It's always been about the G R E A S E ! This town has always been this way since people were living in tents. Even Duff Roblin's old man built the 'invisible bridge' back in the 20's. The 'Lege' building was also corrupt politicians trying to make a buck. If I had all the whiskey that was bought by all the construction companies, I could float the Paddle wheel Queen and the Rouge with it.

There is no way that you can compare Vancouver with Winnipeg. The last time they came close was back in 1948. Winnipeggers, in order to survive, have to have hard-core manufacturing done here(period). CANAMEXtrade and CentrePort will do nothing substantial for Winnipeg, except create a few jobs and add some buildings. You need some bricks and mortar, back up with machinery that spins Manitoba raw materials into GOLD.

The focal point of Winnipeg is its geographical position. As I said in other posts, tax the bastards that make use of our services. The roads across this Province should be paid for by all of Canada, because we are the only way across this Country. Every rail car that passes through Winnipeg, should be taxed. We have to build over/under passes to accommodate our surface traffic and the railways. We, the people, have to put up with the inconvenience of the rail lines as they pass through the City and our communities. The Railways constantly tell us that they are moving out, yet, over a hundred years later, they are still here. Make them pay to stay.

Okay. I have only lived here for five years now, and I'm only seeing the most-recent developments / proposals / scandals, etc. Sorry if I don't know the entire history of Winnipeg.

CentrePort Canada and the Foreign Trade Zone that is associated with it have the potential to bring in "hard-core" manufacturing companies, as so you state. Theres no guarantee that the whole thing is going to work, but if it does bring in manufacturing, then it very well could spin out some gold.

From what I understand, this whole "Inland Port" idea has been around since the 70's. Now its finally actually happening, with all levels of government support.

[alittle1]

Okay. I have only lived here for five years now, and I'm only seeing the most-recent developments / proposals / scandals, etc. Sorry if I don't know the entire history of Winnipeg.

CentrePort Canada and the Foreign Trade Zone that is associated with it have the potential to bring in "hard-core" manufacturing companies, as so you state. Theres no guarantee that the whole thing is going to work, but if it does bring in manufacturing, then it very well could spin out some gold.

From what I understand, this whole "Inland Port" idea has been around since the 70's. Now its finally actually happening, with all levels of government support.

You do not have to know the whole history of Wpg, just some of it.

Ask yourself, if its being around since the 70's, why are they just acting on it now?

I hate going off topic in someone else's thread, but the Federal government took more out of Winnipeg, than it ever put back. Because of geographical location, Winnipeg should be paramount in the aviation and transportation business, but the Feds prefer to subsidize Corn grow in Ontario and shipped back as corn flakes to Winnipeg.

[The Jabroni]

You do not have to know the whole history of Wpg, just some of it.

Ask yourself, if its being around since the 70's, why are they just acting on it now?

I hate going off topic in someone else's thread, but the Federal government took more out of Winnipeg, than it ever put back. Because of geographical location, Winnipeg should be paramount in the aviation and transportation business, but the Feds prefer to subsidize Corn grow in Ontario and shipped back as corn flakes to Winnipeg.

If it took them 40 years to finally take action, then whatever we have planned now, with that logic, will take another 40 years to actually happen?

I don't see that as an issue. It seems to be the norm in fact. :frog:

[Mininari]

You do not have to know the whole history of Wpg, just some of it.

Ask yourself, if its being around since the 70's, why are they just acting on it now?

I hate going off topic in someone else's thread, but the Federal government took more out of Winnipeg, than it ever put back. Because of geographical location, Winnipeg should be paramount in the aviation and transportation business, but the Feds prefer to subsidize Corn grow in Ontario and shipped back as corn flakes to Winnipeg.

My take on things (prior to my existence on this planet, and during my earlier days) is that our past federal governments have been based out of an Eastern power base. They did what is good for Ontario / Quebec / Atlantic Canada, while the west got screwed. My inlaws, for example, are very bitter about the lack of federal government funding for transportation in the west... e.g. just now struggling to twin more of the Trans-Canada in BC, while Ontario and Quebec have soaked up infrastructure money for a long time. The $2.46B upgrade of Highway 1 and the Port Mann Bridge (also critical elements to the west coast port system) are being paid for 100% through the Province and tolls. No help there. Heck, Quebec City has a comparably over-built freeway system (relative to other Canadian cities) for a city of its size (its quite easy to drive around the metro area there). But infrastructure spending is just a proxy of how the feds have treated the East versus west on many other fronts.

Well, now we have a conservative Majority, whose Prime Minister and roots are from the West. The economy is being shifted westward with the continued rapid development of the energy and resources sectors. This is a priority (given the recent streamlining of environmental regulation, and associated science programs), and with this kind of development, you can expect additional transportation and even manufacturing to come out of it.

Why did they wait for 40 years to *finally* build CentrePort? I don't know, I'm no expert on the topic, but I would be willing to guess that having a federal government whose priorities may favour Western Canada a bit more would be willing to support the program. Further to this, the Province had a rough time during the 80's and 90's (which arguably the feds could have done more about to support manufacturing and the aerospace industries). However, now things seem to be moving forward at a sustainable pace here; the economy is growing at a healthy rate, unemployment is low.

At the end of the day, whats passed is past. What matter is what is happening today, and for the future.

Back to Chief Peguis for a second... are we going to start seeing planning processes start for further extensions of the roadway?

[wpgcityone]

Does anyone know when/if they'll start paving all the pathways around the new extension. They've been putting down gravel the last week or so, including across Lag into Harbour View North. I suspect when they're done that they'll start paving?

Left turn lane on southbound Lag at Grassie will be closed for the next two weeks. Are they adding a second turning lane there to reduce the logjam of traffic?

I'll be at an APEGM luncheon in two weeks where Luis Escobar (the city's Manager of Transportation) will talk about the City of Winnipeg Transportation Master Plan. I wonder if anyone will ask him if he is consulted before city hall makes ad hoc decisions on what to do.

[alittle1]

Does anyone know when/if they'll start paving all the pathways around the new extension. They've been putting down gravel the last week or so, including across Lag into Harbour View North. I suspect when they're done that they'll start paving?

Left turn lane on southbound Lag at Grassie will be closed for the next two weeks. Are they adding a second turning lane there to reduce the logjam of traffic?

I'll be at an APEGM luncheon in two weeks where Luis Escobar (the city's Manager of Transportation) will talk about the City of Winnipeg Transportation Master Plan. I wonder if anyone will ask him if he is consulted before city hall makes ad hoc decisions on what to do.

If the City is building more bike paths, that just tells me that they will be raising taxes again and you will be peddling your bike and your ass for the next couple of years to make ends meet.

Putting a second turning lane in, still isn't going to help. What they need is a 'flipper button' like on a pinball machine; those cars that start up using the 20 second rule should be 'flipped' ahead so at least 7 or 8 of us can get around in the light cycle. Double flippers would be grand!

Biff, our regular transportation Master should go as our delegate and pose a few questions, and Bdog could act as his consul. My only request would be is, try and get a written copy of the Master Plan and ask Luis Escobar to sign it. We could later put fire to his feet with the pages that we would burn when he does go through with the written material contained within it.

Anyone know why Katz gave up smoking? Didn't want to start a GREASE Fire.

[h0twired]

If the City is building more bike paths, that just tells me that they will be raising taxes again and you will be peddling your bike and your ass for the next couple of years to make ends meet.

Thanks grandpa. God forbid we build infrastructure other than roads.

I for one am not 70+ years old and would love to be able to commute to work using a connected series of bike pathways like I used to in Calgary.

The majority of young people (aka "those still paying taxes") actually like the idea of more bike paths and rapid transit options.

[Mininari]

Thanks grandpa. God forbid we build infrastructure other than roads.

I for one am not 70+ years old and would love to be able to commute to work using a connected series of bike pathways like I used to in Calgary.

The majority of young people (aka "those still paying taxes") actually like the idea of more bike paths and rapid transit options.

I think I'm one of the few 30 and under crowd at my work that doesn't cycle to work (I've been carpooling, and soon will drive as I have to start taking my son to daycare)... but nearly everyone else rides their bike in. A couple even brave winter...

[roccerfeller]

That specific experience does depend on the person though.

That is, we all have different friends circles so our experiences are different.

There is a case to be made on both sides; perhaps certain areas in Winnipeg are just more accessible by bikes than others

[alittle1]

Thanks grandpa. God forbid we build infrastructure other than roads.

I for one am not 70+ years old and would love to be able to commute to work using a connected series of bike pathways like I used to in Calgary.

The majority of young people (aka "those still paying taxes") actually like the idea of more bike paths and rapid transit options.

I bike too. You can see me peddling my bike on the 207, I'm the one with the big butt crack. Stop and take pictures next time. If your around to see 70, give me a shout.


PS, My taxes dollars already paid for the roads I drive on!

[armorand93]

I bike too. You can see me peddling my bike on the 207, I'm the one with the big butt crack. Stop and take pictures next time. If your around to see 70, give me a shout.


PS, My taxes dollars already paid for the roads I drive on!

How old are you again? Just wondering. :P

[cllew]

Quick question about the extension of Chief Peguis via the ESP to Regent.

Its going to have to cross the CP Molson main line so what do you think the chances are of a grade separation at that point or do you think the the city will cheap out and do a level crossing?

I would guess that for the CEMR Pine Falls line it will be a level crossing as there are only a couple of trains a week on it.

[Biff]

Quick question about the extension of Chief Peguis via the ESP to Regent.

Its going to have to cross the CP Molson main line so what do you think the chances are of a grade separation at that point or do you think the the city will cheap out and do a level crossing?

I would guess that for the CEMR Pine Falls line it will be a level crossing as there are only a couple of trains a week on it.

It's Winnipeg, you can't build a project with out a "future phases" so the initial crossing would be at grade. That way they can totally inconvenience everyone driving on the new road after it is built with the construction of an underpass.

[rrskylar]

It's Winnipeg, you can't build a project with out a "future phases" so the initial crossing would be at grade. That way they can totally inconvenience everyone driving on the new road after it is built with the construction of an underpass.

Sad but SO true.:(

[alittle1]

Quick question about the extension of Chief Peguis via the ESP to Regent.

Its going to have to cross the CP Molson main line so what do you think the chances are of a grade separation at that point or do you think the the city will cheap out and do a level crossing?

I would guess that for the CEMR Pine Falls line it will be a level crossing as there are only a couple of trains a week on it.

If you look at the rails on the line you will see that there is a good layer of rust in place. The only place the tracks is being used is up by Griffin.

In the future, rail lines won't run through the City. Trucks will carry freight into the City.

[cllew]

If you look at the rails on the line you will see that there is a good layer of rust in place. The only place the tracks is being used is up by Griffin.

If your taking CEMR, they hold up traffic a few times a week on Regent when they interchange with CN. On the north end they are the only rail line into the Imperial Oil terminal in East St. Paul and there are always tank cars in there.

And about a month ago they were pushing potash cars into storage by the Manitoba Hydro steam plant in East Selkirk. I think that most of the sidings from East Selkirk to Pine Falls are now being used for their rail car storage program.

[Biff]

Sad but SO true.:(

You know what frustrates me the most is how other jurisdictions can do things properly. For instance, look up the details for Circle Drive in Saskatoon.

http://www.saskatoon.ca/DEPARTMENTS/Infrastructure%20Services/Transportation/TransportationPlanning/CircleDriveSouthProject/Pages/CircleDriveSouthProject.aspx

In brief they are making 8km of 4 to 6 lane FREEWAY with 4 grade separated interchanges, a 6 lane river crossing, 3 railway grade separations and sound walls in 5 years from design to completion for just over $300 million.

To compare Chief Peguis is approximately 3.5 km with 1 grade separation, 2 signalized intersections and some sound walls for $110 million.

Why is it that we cannot do things properly here? I know Sask has more money than us but try and compare apples to apples here. Their FREEWAY is just slightly over twice as long as ours but it has a 6 lane river crossing, 3 rail underpasses and 3 more grade separated intersections than ours.

So to triple ours (remember this is very rough) we would spend $330 million get 9 km of 4 lane road with 3 total grade crossings. They some how get 7 grade separations and a river crossing. We are doing something wrong here.

[h0twired]

You know what frustrates me the most is how other jurisdictions can do things properly.

Other jurisdictions have oil and potash money to burn.

[alittle1]

You know what frustrates me the most is how other jurisdictions can do things properly. For instance, look up the details for Circle Drive in Saskatoon.

http://www.saskatoon.ca/DEPARTMENTS/Infrastructure%20Services/Transportation/TransportationPlanning/CircleDriveSouthProject/Pages/CircleDriveSouthProject.aspx

In brief they are making 8km of 4 to 6 lane FREEWAY with 4 grade separated interchanges, a 6 lane river crossing, 3 railway grade separations and sound walls in 5 years from design to completion for just over $300 million.

To compare Chief Peguis is approximately 3.5 km with 1 grade separation, 2 signalized intersections and some sound walls for $110 million.

Why is it that we cannot do things properly here? I know Sask has more money than us but try and compare apples to apples here. Their FREEWAY is just slightly over twice as long as ours but it has a 6 lane river crossing, 3 rail underpasses and 3 more grade separated intersections than ours.

So to triple ours (remember this is very rough) we would spend $330 million get 9 km of 4 lane road with 3 total grade crossings. They some how get 7 grade separations and a river crossing. We are doing something wrong here.

Biff,

I would guess that the reason that THEY can do it, is because they build more efficiently then we do. And example is this:

http://www.saskatoon.ca/DEPARTMENTS/Infrastructure%20Services/Transportation/Documents/PedestrianWalkwayStandpoint.jpg

[alittle1]

Dang, that's a big picture.

We would build a separate foot-bridge, like we did at Provencher and put a Salisbury House on it. Where all we needed was a foot-bridge.

[original]

You know what frustrates me the most is how other jurisdictions can do things properly. For instance, look up the details for Circle Drive in Saskatoon.

http://www.saskatoon.ca/DEPARTMENTS/Infrastructure%20Services/Transportation/TransportationPlanning/CircleDriveSouthProject/Pages/CircleDriveSouthProject.aspx

In brief they are making 8km of 4 to 6 lane FREEWAY with 4 grade separated interchanges, a 6 lane river crossing, 3 railway grade separations and sound walls in 5 years from design to completion for just over $300 million.

To compare Chief Peguis is approximately 3.5 km with 1 grade separation, 2 signalized intersections and some sound walls for $110 million.

Why is it that we cannot do things properly here? I know Sask has more money than us but try and compare apples to apples here. Their FREEWAY is just slightly over twice as long as ours but it has a 6 lane river crossing, 3 rail underpasses and 3 more grade separated intersections than ours.

So to triple ours (remember this is very rough) we would spend $330 million get 9 km of 4 lane road with 3 total grade crossings. They some how get 7 grade separations and a river crossing. We are doing something wrong here.

Since this was PPP, I'm guessing DBF2 is going to make a killer amount of cash over 30 years maintaining CPT.

You can see that they used every possible way to cut costs. That sound wall is a joke, it's what 9 ft tall and made of recycled milk juggs?

Also, they didn't even use concrete for the extension. The shitty asphalt they laid down is already starting to get tire grooves at the controlled intersections. The Disraeli "Freeway" (I don't know why it's even classified a Fwy) seems to be using the same shitty asphalt... Great stuff.

[Bdog]

You know what frustrates me the most is how other jurisdictions can do things properly. For instance, look up the details for Circle Drive in Saskatoon.

http://www.saskatoon.ca/DEPARTMENTS/Infrastructure%20Services/Transportation/TransportationPlanning/CircleDriveSouthProject/Pages/CircleDriveSouthProject.aspx

In brief they are making 8km of 4 to 6 lane FREEWAY with 4 grade separated interchanges, a 6 lane river crossing, 3 railway grade separations and sound walls in 5 years from design to completion for just over $300 million.

To compare Chief Peguis is approximately 3.5 km with 1 grade separation, 2 signalized intersections and some sound walls for $110 million.

Why is it that we cannot do things properly here? I know Sask has more money than us but try and compare apples to apples here. Their FREEWAY is just slightly over twice as long as ours but it has a 6 lane river crossing, 3 rail underpasses and 3 more grade separated intersections than ours.

So to triple ours (remember this is very rough) we would spend $330 million get 9 km of 4 lane road with 3 total grade crossings. They some how get 7 grade separations and a river crossing. We are doing something wrong here.

Would be very interesting to track this project over time. It seems amazing that you could get all that for a mere $300 M. Unless I'm misreading it, that's 1 bridge over the Saskatchewan River, 5 interchanges, and 3 railroad bridges? Plus 10 Km of road? If it can be done, we'll definitely have to take notes - I'm not sure how it's possible to build all that for that cheap...

[rrskylar]

Since this was PPP, I'm guessing DBF2 is going to make a killer amount of cash over 30 years maintaining CPT.

You can see that they used every possible way to cut costs. That sound wall is a joke, it's what 9 ft tall and made of recycled milk juggs?

Also, they didn't even use concrete for the extension. The shitty asphalt they laid down is already starting to get tire grooves at the controlled intersections. The Disraeli "Freeway" (I don't know why it's even classified a Fwy) seems to be using the same shitty asphalt... Great stuff.

But it was super asphalt they used on CP Trail extension!;) But yeah grooves have already appeared on the half-assed surface. You must love the stink weed growing in the medians though.;)

On Saskatoon getting 5 times the amount of work (including a 6 lane bridge) for only 3 times the price of the CP Trail extension, guess the politicians there could learn a thing or two from Sam and his gang on how to line their own pockets.

[alittle1]

But it was super asphalt they used on CP Trail extension!;) But yeah grooves have already appeared on the half-assed surface. You must love the stink weed growing in the medians though.;)

On Saskatoon getting 5 times the amount of work (including a 6 lane bridge) for only 3 times the price of the CP Trail extension, guess the politicians there could learn a thing or two from Sam and his gang on how to line their own pockets.

You know that the city is too dumb to write there own spec for asphalt, they rely on the paving companies to do it for them.

[cllew]

Not sure if this is because Molson does not connect to CPT and traffic has to go east to get get to it, but the city has put out a tender for a full size traffic circle at Molson ST. and Grassie Blvd.

[rrskylar]

Not sure if this is because Molson does not connect to CPT and traffic has to go east to get get to it, but the city has put out a tender for a full size traffic circle at Molson ST. and Grassie Blvd.

Both the Molson-Grassie, Grassie -Lag. intersections have been unable to handle the volume of traffic they service for the past 20 years. Molson should have been upgraded to 4 lanes (Grassie to Concordia) years ago. The city now does yearly repairs to Molson just to keep it drivable.

[Biff]

They were supposed to tender that traffic circle last year. They were having issue with one of the property owners of the four corners not wanting to sell the city a sliver of his/her land.

[The Jabroni]

^Seeing the 2012 capital projects budgets and map, they have that intersection tendered, and yet nothing so far, as per the issues you mentioned.

The stretch of Molson down to Concordia really needs to be upgraded. I nearly bottomed out because of the ruts on that road.

[alittle1]

They were supposed to tender that traffic circle last year. They were having issue with one of the property owners of the four corners not wanting to sell the city a sliver of his/her land.

Condo project going in on the N/E corner, land was jut sold.

Jabroni,

If you would sell that Corvette and buy a 4 X 4 like the rest of the people in Wpg, you would have no problem. Shedding 50 pounds would help also.....

[The Jabroni]

Condo project going in on the N/E corner, land was jut sold.

Jabroni,

If you would sell that Corvette and buy a 4 X 4 like the rest of the people in Wpg, you would have no problem. Shedding 50 pounds would help also.....

Nice. I now have an impractical car and weigh 50 pounds heavier.

[rrskylar]

Not the CP Trail but: (Yeah, we need our own SSP: Local Winnipeg and file this under Transportation & Infrastructure)



Plessis Road widening, bridge eyed for funding: Toews

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/Plessis-Road-widening-bridge-eyed-for-funding-Toews-160397175.html

[Biff]

The Plessis Rd underpass is farther along than most people realize. The RFP for Functional Design closed in May.

[Biff]

I know i'm in back to back posts, but these are different thoughts.....

I live by the Chief Peguis Trail and Gateway area and walk the soon to be paved walking trails almost daily, which are great by the way. So many different paths to take, different routs to walk. This has to be one of the most expensively landscaped projects i have seen in this city. Having recently built an new house and paid for a few 10ft + trees i know how expensive they are. My point is the sheer amount of trees they are planting is immense. They are planting hundreds of 10ft to 20ft trees everywhere. It will be very nice when all is finished. Also, to compliment the Northeast Pioneers Greenway trail system i just read that the Provincial Govt has put a pedestrian overpass spanning the N Perimeter Hwy in their 3 year budget.

[rrskylar]

I know i'm in back to back posts, but these are different thoughts.....

I live by the Chief Peguis Trail and Gateway area and walk the soon to be paved walking trails almost daily, which are great by the way. So many different paths to take, different routs to walk. This has to be one of the most expensively landscaped projects i have seen in this city. Having recently built an new house and paid for a few 10ft + trees i know how expensive they are. My point is the sheer amount of trees they are planting is immense. They are planting hundreds of 10ft to 20ft trees everywhere. It will be very nice when all is finished. Also, to compliment the Northeast Pioneers Greenway trail system i just read that the Provincial Govt has put a pedestrian overpass spanning the N Perimeter Hwy in their 3 year budget.


I too am pleasantly surprised by the amount of trees that have been planted alongthe CP Trail, even the hills alongside the ped. overpass are now treed in poplars. Glad to hear those gravel pathways will be paved, pretty tough to ride them on my bike.

[h0twired]

I too am pleasantly surprised by the amount of trees that have been planted alongthe CP Trail, even the hills alongside the ped. overpass are now treed in poplars. Glad to hear those gravel pathways will be paved, pretty tough to ride them on my bike.

Hopefully they put a couple posts in the middle of the entrances of the walking paths.

I watched a minivan driving down the path one day. Some really old guy with a long beard was behind the wheel only to get stopped by a cyclist headed in the opposite direction. Must have thought it was a service road.

[cllew]

I know i'm in back to back posts, but these are different thoughts.....

I live by the Chief Peguis Trail and Gateway area and walk the soon to be paved walking trails almost daily, which are great by the way. So many different paths to take, different routs to walk. This has to be one of the most expensively landscaped projects i have seen in this city. Having recently built an new house and paid for a few 10ft + trees i know how expensive they are. My point is the sheer amount of trees they are planting is immense. They are planting hundreds of 10ft to 20ft trees everywhere. It will be very nice when all is finished. Also, to compliment the Northeast Pioneers Greenway trail system i just read that the Provincial Govt has put a pedestrian overpass spanning the N Perimeter Hwy in their 3 year budget.

At one point there was a plan to use the old CP rail bed that makes up the Pioneers Greenway go through East St Paul to Lockport and then a side link to a trail connecting to Birds Hill Park near the Dunning Road Floodway crossing. Not sure if it was just a conceptual plan by one of the biking groups or there was real money behind it.

[original]

The added turning lane on Lag to Grassie has been done for 3 weeks but still remains closed off. All the crews have vanished form the site weeks ago, yet its still closed. What's up with this? At least the speed camera isn't there anymore.

[The Jabroni]

The added turning lane on Lag to Grassie has been done for 3 weeks but still remains closed off. All the crews have vanished form the site weeks ago, yet its still closed. What's up with this? At least the speed camera isn't there anymore.

I'm assuming that speed camera was removed because of the construction that was going to happen. I won't be surprised if the city puts the camera back.

As for opening that lane, your question is as good as mine.

Also, I seriously hope they make those lights a bit longer on Grassie and Lagimodiere, in terms of the amount of time it stays green on Lag. I know it may be a "band-aid" solution to a long term fundamental problem, but you got to improve the traffic situation in some way. :shrug:

[cllew]

I wonder if they are waiting for the concrete to set before letting traffic on it, or does it have to do with the improvements at Gateway also driven by Chief Peguis. There may be signal changes that have to be coordinated even though the intersections are some distance apart.

Regarding the red light camera, this is not the only location to be removed after construction. I noticed that the camera on Disraeli Fwy at Lily is also gone.

I don't think it is going back in as there is no provision for the foundation bases for the camera or strobe lights in the sidewalk pour. I know the concrete could be broken later for it but usually in new construction the bases are poured the same time as the signals are done.

These locations are both involved with PPP infrastructure projects (Disraeli more so) so I wonder if that has any influence in their removal.

[The Jabroni]

Hmm. It might also have to do with the new roundabout they're building on Grassie and Molson.

[original]

I wonder if they are waiting for the concrete to set before letting traffic on it.
I think its safe to say its set. It's been dry and 30 degrees almost daily for the last few weeks.

On a side note, the landscaping along CPT is going pretty well. The amount of trees they planted is great.

[The Jabroni]

I think its safe to say its set. It's been dry and 30 degrees almost daily for the last few weeks.

On a side note, the landscaping along CPT is going pretty well. The amount of trees they planted is great.

That's an understatement.

Years from now, CPT will look even better, especially when walking or biking along the paths along the road.

[cllew]

Any idea what's going on with the pedestrian overpass over Peguis Trail for the NE Pioneers Greenway by Gateway Rd?

It was open earlier this spring but I see that it is now fenced off and has been that way for a while.

[original]

Any idea what's going on with the pedestrian overpass over Peguis Trail for the NE Pioneers Greenway by Gateway Rd?

It was open earlier this spring but I see that it is now fenced off and has been that way for a while.

They were installing some weird posts on both sides of the bridge and paving the pathway that leads up to the bridge. They seem to have finished a few weeks ago, yet it remains closed.

I have some info about the east bound turning lane onto Grassie that was added on Lag a couple of weeks ago. Apparently it will open up when the construction on Molson and Grassie is done. I assume when that oversized round about is complete.

[MrGrinch]

I know that the NW part of the ring road is still far away but some interesting developments in my area in preparation for this. The first is the recent completion of paving of a portion of Pipeline Road just north of Leila that stops in the middle of nowhere where CPT will eventually run. It looked like they were going to do both lanes, but stopped after only one lane. Clearly room for a second in the future.

The second is the development of (bursting) Amber Trails north of Templeton and new lots on Amberstone Road and Mosselle Drive backing on to future CPT. These lots have backyards that are "ridged" I'm assuming to support future sound barrier as these properties will back onto the expressway. I wonder if these people even realize this when purchasing their new homes...? Here's the Amber Trails concept map with CPT running north/west of it...

http://genstar.com/public/documents/27/02-003-AmberTrails11x17P%28250%29%28Feb21.pdf

[The Jabroni]

Yeah, some of us knew that already. We know that Leila Ave. will eventually connect to CPT. It's still years away though.

[Reed Solomon]

Yeah, some of us knew that already. We know that Leila Ave. will eventually connect to CPT. It's still years away though.

Why would Leila need to connect to CPT? They run parallel.

[lilwayne]

Why would Leila need to connect to CPT? They run parallel.

he prolly meant either mcphillips or route 90 i forsee them connecting to mcphillips by 2015 and route 90 by 2017

[MrGrinch]

No, he's right. CPT will run north of Templeton and wrap around Amber Trails to the north and then west. So it will intersect both McPhillips and Leila. Check out the link to the map in my post above.

Further maps are available in the link below. And note the timeline to completion... up to 2021 to McPhillips and 2031 to Route 90. Yikes, I hope I am still alive to see this happen!

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/132842593.html

[cheswick]

No, he's right. CPT will run north of Templeton and wrap around Amber Trails to the north and then west. So it will intersect both McPhillips and Leila. Check out the link to the map in my post above.

Further maps are available in the link below. And note the timeline to completion... up to 2021 to McPhillips and 2031 to Route 90. Yikes, I hope I am still alive to see this happen!

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/132842593.html

Council voted recently to move those dates up to help with transportation out of centreport. I believe the timeline is now 2016.

As for Leila not sure what you're talking about. . The map on the link you provided showing the Chief Peguis expansion (the second map on the page) clearly shows the expansion going well north of Leila and diverting South well past the end of Leila.

Page 31: http://transportation.speakupwinnipeg.com/files/2011/11/2011-11-01-TMP-ExecutiveSummary.pdf

[MrGrinch]

As for Leila not sure what you're talking about. . The map on the link you provided showing the Chief Peguis expansion (the second map on the page) clearly shows the expansion going well north of Leila and diverting South well past the end of Leila.

Leila has been extended with the high growth of Amber Trails. The representation of Leila in the city's "speak up" plan even as of today are out of date. Leila at this very moment runs well west of where it shows it stops on page 31 of the plan and will continue to be extended to CPT. Again, refer to the Genstar map above.

You can even see Leila's extension on google maps... plus where it will connect to future CPT running north and west of Amber Trails...

http://maps.google.com/?ll=49.965245,-97.180853&spn=0.021836,0.038581&t=h&z=15

[cheswick]

Leila has been extended with the high growth of Amber Trails. The representation of Leila in the city's "speak up" plan even as of today are out of date. Leila at this very moment runs well west of where it shows it stops on page 31 of the plan and will continue to be extended to CPT. Again, refer to the Genstar map above.

You can even see Leila's extension on google maps... plus where it will connect to future CPT running north and west of Amber Trails...

http://maps.google.com/?ll=49.965245,-97.180853&spn=0.021836,0.038581&t=h&z=15

I live close to the end of Leila so know where it ends. I definetely read that city map wrong assuming they had Leila's extension to Ritchie was on there.

I didn't know there was any plans of extending Leila though. Considering when they paved the portion of Leila west pipeline about 10 years ago they deliberately made it narrow to limit it to a residential traffic despite there being a tonne of space to make it wider. Seems like an odd decision to then extend it to Cheif Peguis. You would think accessing it via Pipeline or Jefferson would be easy enough.

There is also is a new community planned for the area east of King Edward, both South and North of Jefferson. I got a flyer not that long ago for a community meeting. I think it's called meadows something. Looks like the extension of Chief Peguis will jut right upto it (if I'm reading the map right)

[Mininari]

Theres still a right-of-way to widen Leila to 4 lanes all the way through. Theres nothing stopping them from doing that in 5-10 years.

[The Jabroni]

Yeah, I drew a route map on Google Earth a while back and posted it here somewhere. It shows where Leila will eventually and actually terminate once they get CPT west of Main St. up and running, and how CPT will terminate on Route 90 Brookside Blvd.

...and that's interesting how there's a new neighbourhood being planned east of King Edward and goes north and south of Jefferson. It may justify extending Keewatin/Jose Rizal onto where CPT will eventually be laid, and that could extend Leila into this new neighbourhood even further.

Still, this is like what, 10 or 20 years from now?

[original]

Found some cool aerial CPT construction pictures at chiefpeguistrail.com

Some of the images are huge.

http://chiefpeguistrail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/CPT-Construction-pics.jpg

http://chiefpeguistrail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/DSC_4686.jpg

http://chiefpeguistrail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/DSC_4687.jpg

http://chiefpeguistrail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/DSC_4688.jpg

http://chiefpeguistrail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/DSC_4690.jpg

http://chiefpeguistrail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/DSC_4693.jpg

http://chiefpeguistrail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/DSC_4695.jpg

http://chiefpeguistrail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/DSC_4701.jpg

http://chiefpeguistrail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/SEPT-CPT-looking-west.jpg

http://chiefpeguistrail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Sept-at-Gateway.jpg

http://chiefpeguistrail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Sept-at-Rothesay.jpg

[MrGrinch]

One good picture deserves another.

Any guesses where this picture of "future" CPT is taken from...?

Photos taken by me.

http://i50.tinypic.com/34zx9no.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/34zm79t.jpg

[Biff]

One good picture deserves another.

Any guesses where this picture of "future" CPT is taken from...?

Photos taken by me.

http://i50.tinypic.com/34zx9no.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/34zm79t.jpg

NW of Templeton and Pipeline looking east (just north of the newest Amber Trails homes).

[original]

Is that a little mound where the sticks are in for a future noise barrier wall?

CPT is going to curve around Amber Trails?

[plrh]

Those are for the top of the berm grades.