[Only The Lonely..]

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/15/chiefpeguistrailextensi4fe.jpg

[Only The Lonely..]

March 29, 2007 | The Herald


The City has begun tip-toeing towards extending Chief Peguis Trail to Lagimodiere Boulevard and other major capital projects in the area.

The City’s 2007 preliminary capital budget, released Jan. 12, pegged planning to begin on Chief Peguis Trail this year with major construction set to start in 2008 and end in the autumn of 2009.

The bridge connecting Henderson Highway with Main Street was completed 16 years ago as the first phase of a route designated in a 1960s transportation study that would provide an inner-beltway to move traffic across the city. Currently, Springfield Road carries 16,000 cars a day, far more than it was designed to do said ward Coun. Jeff Browaty.

“Other streets nearby like McIvor and McLeod take far more traffic than they are designed to because there is no east-west route,” he said.
Winnipeg Fire and Paramedic Services applauds the decision after they’ve expressed their concerns to the City about receiving higher call volumes in an area littered with speed-bumps and crammed streets.

Deputy chief Ken Sim said the service is currently comparing travel times to historical records and are looking for ways “that make life less challenging for us.”

“Any improvement to (using Springfield Road) we would support because as you know that’s a fairly heavily travelled street and it means us having to oftentimes not take the most direct route,” he said.

But the green light was given to other major capital projects as well. The budget includes funding to the Disraeli Freeway rehabilitation project, a $91-million venture to improve the degrading roadway.

And Coun. Browaty also said the City’s planning property and development department set money aside for trail development, including the Marconi Trail, which a local grassroots group has been designing for months. The group presented its plan to the East Kildonan-Transcona community committee on Jan. 15.

“We’re very excited,” Sigrun Bailey, co-chair of the River East Neighbourhood Network Trail Committee said.

“It’s very good news for North Kildonan,” Coun. Browaty added.

[fengshui]

The RFP for detailed design and construction administration closes Apr. 4 and calls for construction to start in the spring of 2008 and the road to be open in 2009. 'Tis keeping a few lucky ones quite busy in the office right now getting a bid ready.

[CCF]

This couldn't have gone in one of the other 800 threads?!

[The Jabroni]

Hmmm, I wonder who made that Google image? :rolleyes: Nah, just kidding.;)

Anyways, it is definitely much needed. Springfield was NOT originally intended to hold that much traffic. The expressway is needed, and can cut down time by like 5 minutes at peak times, and make the intersection of Rothesay and Springfield potentially less dangerous than what it should be, because as I've said before, traffic is a nightmare at times.

[ReginaGuy]

This couldn't have gone in one of the other 800 threads?!

Maybe we should just start a new thread for every development in Regina :P

[Greco Roman]

This couldn't have gone in one of the other 800 threads?!

Tee Hee :notacrook:

Well, who knows. Maybe this might be a sign that Manitoba will get it's own forum after all. :)

[rgalston]

There's no proven benefit to building fancy new roads. Traffic levels don't neccicitate it, and once the novelty factor has died off, the city will bear the huge cost of maintaining it.

Build the economy first, roads later.

[ReginaGuy]

There's no proven benefit to building fancy new roads. Traffic levels don't neccicitate it, and once the novelty factor has died off, the city will bear the huge cost of maintaining it.

Build the economy first, roads later.

I'm sure if the city transportation engineers have decided a road is needed, then that means the road is needed. Cities don't typically build infrastructure for pure "novelty factor"

[newflyer]

I'm sure if the city transportation engineers have decided a road is needed, then that means the road is needed. Cities don't typically build infrastructure for pure "novelty factor"

I agree that roadway expansion is needed in that area. It is also part of a long term strategy to build the north part of an inner express loop.

North .. Chief Peguis (incomplete)
West .. Route 90
South .. Bishop Grandin
East .. Lagamodiere

Once this inner loop is completed it will fulfill the needs as outlined in a former traffic study, with consultaion of the transportation industry. ie: the shorter time to transport goods the more efficent city business con operate.

I am just glad to see this roadway expand. :tup: Also look for an interchange at Lag .. at a future date.

[Only The Lonely..]

What's the dollar amount being set aside for new construction? I think I heard something like 30+ million.

That seems a little on the cheap side doesn't it?

I'm also curious what will happen when the road crosses Springfield, Molson, and then meets Hwy 59. Will there be over passes or at grade crossings? In the case of Hwy 59 will there be a cloverleaf or some other kind of interchange?

I know Rothesay is supposed to become an overpass.

[fengshui]

Roughly $38 million. It will be partially depressed, pass under Rothesay and include new intersections at Henderson, Gateway and Lag. Also, active transportation to be incorporated.

[Greco Roman]

I agree that roadway expansion is needed in that area. It is also part of a long term strategy to build the north part of an inner express loop.

North .. Chief Peguis (incomplete)
West .. Route 90
South .. Bishop Grandin
East .. Lagamodiere

Once this inner loop is completed it will fulfill the needs as outlined in a former traffic study, with consultaion of the transportation industry. ie: the shorter time to transport goods the more efficent city business con operate.

I am just glad to see this roadway expand. :tup: Also look for an interchange at Lag .. at a future date.


Are you sure that this will be an "expressway" with interchanges? I thought Winnipeg was an anti-expressway city?

[Only The Lonely..]

Roughly $38 million. It will be partially depressed, pass under Rothesay and include new intersections at Henderson, Gateway and Lag. Also, active transportation to be incorporated.

Ohh no not another light on hwy 59!! Stop murdering what's left of a fine expressway.

[fengshui]

Likely the Springfield and new Chief Peguis intersections will be configured so that no new lights are required.

[Only The Lonely..]

:previous:

Trying hard to imagine how that would work..

Ohh my brain hurts.

[fengshui]

It will be a challenge for the engineers.

[Only The Lonely..]

Fengshui, your pretty knowledgeable on the subject..

Tell me, is there really enough room along the banks of Sun Valley lake for an expressway?

I drive by the site all the time and figure that it's going to be a pretty tight fit between the highway and the backyard of some of those homes.

[Biff]

Fengshui, your pretty knowledgeable on the subject..

Tell me, is there really enough room along the banks of Sun Valley lake for an expressway?

I drive by the site all the time and figure that it's going to be a pretty tight fit between the highway and the backyard of some of those homes.

The largest amount of room for the whole project has been set aside by the lake. Where it will be tightest is the portion from Rothesay to Gateway.

I can't believe they are planning for lights at Gateway/Raleigh. How expensive can it be to build a simple "diamond" style over/underpass?

[fengshui]

Biff is right. It's very tight between Rothesay and Raleigh - espically because the City wants divided parkway with separate ped/cycling paths similar in design to the Charleswood Parkway.

It's good they are looking at Springfield/Lag intersection though. Highest collision rate in the City in 2002, and consistently in the top 10 worst intersections for collisions. Some type of relocation/partial closure of the intersection is probable.

[Only The Lonely..]

The largest amount of room for the whole project has been set aside by the lake. Where it will be tightest is the portion from Rothesay to Gateway.

I can't believe they are planning for lights at Gateway/Raleigh. How expensive can it be to build a simple "diamond" style over/underpass?

I was wondering about what would happen at Gateway / Raleigh too.

More importantly, if the city ever decides to add some form of BRT / LRT to the Marconi line then you'd have a real mess on your hands.

As someone living in NK, I'd rather the city put off this project for another 5 years and do it right. It seems like too many short cuts are being taken to appease a small handful of voters.

[Only The Lonely..]

All of this talk reminds me of the fabled new interchange the province was supposed to build at the Perimeter and Lag.

What the heck ever happened to that proposal anyways?

I heard that it would've been pretty elaborate with several flyovers.

[Greco Roman]

All of this talk reminds me of the fabled new interchange the province was supposed to build at the Perimeter and Lag.

What the heck ever happened to that proposal anyways?

I heard that it would've been pretty elaborate with several flyovers.

Well, if it took 30 years to build the two-lane connection of the perimeter, then you shouldn't be shocked on the slowness of that interchange progression. I'm actually expecting them to say the cost is too high and that there will be just a set of lights to control the intersection :rolleyes:

[Biff]

All of this talk reminds me of the fabled new interchange the province was supposed to build at the Perimeter and Lag.

What the heck ever happened to that proposal anyways?

I heard that it would've been pretty elaborate with several flyovers.

It is being built in 2009. The province has set aside over $80 mil for the balance of the NE portion of the Perimeter (Twinning and Bridge - and there is very little twinning left, so the bulk of that money is for the interchange) est at approx $50-60 mil. Preliminary grading happened last summer and design is supposed to occur in 2008.

[rrskylar]

There's no proven benefit to building fancy new roads. Traffic levels don't neccicitate it, and once the novelty factor has died off, the city will bear the huge cost of maintaining it.

Build the economy first, roads later.



Look at a map of Winnipeg and you will notice that there is no major east-west roadway from the Disraeli to the north perimeter. All of the minor east-west routes in this quadrant of the city experience traffic volumes for which they were never designed. (ie. McLeod, Munroe, McIvor etc.) The novelty factor you cite is what, less traffic on these once quiet residential streets as it will have shifted to the new Chief Peguis corridor?


Have you been to Vancouver lately where for 20 years they did nothing to upgrade their roadways and are now left with 24 hour gridlock and the loss of productivity it has caused.

[newflyer]

I was wondering about what would happen at Gateway / Raleigh too.

More importantly, if the city ever decides to add some form of BRT / LRT to the Marconi line then you'd have a real mess on your hands.

As someone living in NK, I'd rather the city put off this project for another 5 years and do it right. It seems like too many short cuts are being taken to appease a small handful of voters.

This project has been on the books for decades.

[Jimbo]

I really hope they make the expansion.

I live in Eaglemere, and trust me, Mcleod is a nice quiet street, but during rush hour is unbelieavle how far back he line ups go.

Same with Molson.

[Only The Lonely..]

:previous:
Springfield Rd. is a freakin disaster too..

Knowing how visionary our city is, I have a hunch this new 'expressway' will be riddled with lights and at-grade crossings.

They'll probably throw up a few photo camera's for good measure just to ensure that nobody gets anywhere quickly.

[fengshui]

The only lights would be at Raleigh/Gateway and of course, Henderson and Lagimodiere.

Raleigh will be downgraded to local access (from McIvor to Springfield) will tie in to Gateway which will become the main thoroughfare.

Lagimodiere intersection will initially be a T, Phase 2 would include a four-way design and long range plans call for an interchange. Springfield Road will likely be severed and terminate in cul-de-sac either side of the new Chief Peguis Trail. Douglas Avenue will be partially closed between Raleigh and Rothesay.

Henderson long range plans also call for an interchange and park and ride lot.

[Only The Lonely..]

The only lights would be at Raleigh/Gateway and of course, Henderson and Lagimodiere.

Raleigh will be downgraded to local access (from McIvor to Springfield) will tie in to Gateway which will become the main thoroughfare.

Lagimodiere intersection will initially be a T, Phase 2 would include a four-way design and long range plans call for an interchange. Springfield Road will likely be severed and terminate in cul-de-sac either side of the new Chief Peguis Trail. Douglas Avenue will be partially closed between Raleigh and Rothesay.

Henderson long range plans also call for an interchange and park and ride lot.

Very interesting fengshui, you've been a real asset to the conversation..

One question, when you say long term are we talking about in my lifetime or my grandchildren's? ;)

[fengshui]

Long range likely means 15+ years...
Our firm did not win the design competition, so I'm afraid that is the end of any more detailed info from me.

[Greco Roman]

The only lights would be at Raleigh/Gateway and of course, Henderson and Lagimodiere.

Raleigh will be downgraded to local access (from McIvor to Springfield) will tie in to Gateway which will become the main thoroughfare.

Lagimodiere intersection will initially be a T, Phase 2 would include a four-way design and long range plans call for an interchange. Springfield Road will likely be severed and terminate in cul-de-sac either side of the new Chief Peguis Trail. Douglas Avenue will be partially closed between Raleigh and Rothesay.

Henderson long range plans also call for an interchange and park and ride lot.

Every intersection on ths Trail should be interchanges, and if not, then no access and build a bridge over the Trail. Screw the lights. This should be a full-blown expressway!

[newflyer]

Every intersection on ths Trail should be interchanges, and if not, then no access and build a bridge over the Trail. Screw the lights. This should be a full-blown expressway!

Yup .. that sounds good to me. Winnipeg would really look good with a few expressways.

[Biff]

Long range likely means 15+ years...
Our firm did not win the design competition, so I'm afraid that is the end of any more detailed info from me.

Who won?

[fengshui]

U M A

[bimbamboom]

I'm wondering if this project will be cancelled due to rising construction costs. This project should be given priority over the twinning of Inkster Blvd.

[rrskylar]

Do you think the Chief Peguis Trail extension would have been postponed if it was in south Winnipeg, chances are NO!

[The Jabroni]

They shouldn't. It's desperately needed. Springfield Rd is already bursting in its seams.

It would be a big mistake if they cancelled it, let alone postpone it.

[berzerkled]

I live near the area and have very recently noticed traffic counters on every west/east street south of where it would be..

[Mrj]

Do you think the Chief Peguis Trail extension would have been postponed if it was in south Winnipeg, chances are NO!

I don't think that's true - how many years did it take to get the Kenaston underpass built??? Rest assured Chief Peguis will be built, the question is how long it will take, since new projects will probably have a hard time competing for money with repairs given the construction inflation right now.

[newflyer]

I would be very suprised if the extension didn't start on schedule. This is a priority for the city.

[Spocket]

Actually , they've tabled this project for construction over the last ten or fifteen years. Every time it went up before council it got pushed back to the next capital expenditures round (every five years I believe) Now that Harbourview South has gone ahead as well as so much more in East St. Paul they've pretty much left themselves with no choice but to build the thing finally. Lastly, I saw in the paper a month or so ago that the city is finally looking at filling in that gap between Transcona and the Kildonans (well, they're looking at the neighbourhood structure plan but that's generally a precursor to green-lighting development)

In other words, it looks like the city has no choice at this point but to build the extension or the voters in those areas will start booting people out of office.

[The Jabroni]

Like I said, they'll have to. Unless they already have someone under a P3 partnership, they'll have to build it sooner than later, or else the damn thing will never be built with rising construction costs and shortage of labour these days.

[newflyer]

Like I said, they'll have to. Unless they already have someone under a P3 partnership, they'll have to build it sooner than later, or else the damn thing will never be built with rising construction costs and shortage of labour these days.

I believe it is a P3 project ... as the Charleswood Parkway is. The City's contribution to construction will only be a fraction of the total cost.

[Jets4Life]

to be honest I'm a little embarrassed for Winnipeg that it's taken half a century for this project to finally be started. I've been hearing talk about the extension being built every couple of years since they built the bridge in 1990.

[swolfe]

Is there any sort of timeline for completing the Cheif Peguis west to Route 90, or even McPhillips?

[fengshui]

There are rumours floating around that Peguis will be tied to another road project and bundled as a P3 to make it worthwhile for bidders. On it's own, it doesn't have enough dollar value to warrant a P3.

[The Jabroni]

Is there any sort of timeline for completing the Cheif Peguis west to Route 90, or even McPhillips?

About 6 years ago, they expropriated land around Highland Avenue, moving or tearing down the houses that were in the path of the potential extension of Chief Peguis Trail west of Main St. Although, I don't think it will be built in the next 5 years. Maybe 10 years down the road for sure, but I think the east/west route of Chief Peguis/Main/Leila/McPhillips/Inkster/Route 90 is "okay" for now, but there might be some side effects to this route if the western extension to Route 90 is built.

[dennis]

Wasn't there an article in the FP recently that stated the Chief Peguis trail extention will be delayed due to a lack of funds from the City?

[newflyer]

Wasn't there an article in the FP recently that stated the Chief Peguis trail extention will be delayed due to a lack of funds from the City?

It actually stated that the expected cost of the list of planned infrastructure projects had risen. It didn't not suggest this project would be delayed.

I have heard this is a high priority project.. and will progress.

The fact is as Winnipeg becomes more efficient, by contracting out major projects to the private sector, or better still tie them into a P3 contract agreement Winnipeg will get a better bang for its money. Since this efficiency process is still at an early stage the city is still finding the financing of its long list of projects a challenge, but I expect to see many more P3's in the future.

[rrskylar]

ue Dec 18 2007

By Bartley Kives

Dark line shows route $64-million extension will take.

ST. Boniface Coun. Dan Vandal is calling for an audit into the increasingly costly Chief Peguis Trail extension, as council votes to approve the $64-million link between Henderson Highway and Lagimodière Boulevard.
FREE PRESS POLL
Is the Chief Peguis Trail extension, where projected costs have risen to $64M from $34M in less than a year, “out of control” as Coun. Dan Vandal says.
Yes
No


City council meets this morning to debate the 2008 capital budget, a blueprint for $2.1 billion in spending on roads, bridges, buildings and water treatment over the next six years.

The second-largest road-construction project in the budget is the Chief Peguis Trail extension, with a projected cost that ballooned from $34 million to $64 million in less than a year.

In November, Mayor Sam Katz decried the faulty calculations that led to the initial low-ball of the Chief Peguis estimate, and complained that Winnipeg routinely gets nailed by construction inflation rates that far exceed those that plague the private sector.
Katz pledged to reform in the way Winnipeg tenders projects, but Vandal now says he wants the city auditor to dissect the Chief Peguis planning process right away.

In the meantime, the St. Boniface councillor will attempt to strike the Chief Peguis Trail extension from the capital budget.

"We could finance the additional $30 million or we could get the real story and find out what went wrong. If this was the private sector, heads would roll and people would lose their jobs," Vandal said.

"Council needs to regain the public's confidence, and the only way to do that is an audit. As far as I'm concerned, the whole project is out of control."

However, city auditor Shannon Hunt is already in the midst of reviewing the way Winnipeg plans major construction projects. Back in the spring, the auditor's office identified capital projects as an area of significant risk, given the rapid rate of construction inflation in Western Canada.

Deputy auditor Brian Whiteside said his office is reviewing how the city selects and approves capital projects and will also review eight completed projects "from the cradle to the grave."

This audit process began well before September, when the city's chief financial officer and acting chief administrator placed a freeze on capital spending and conducted a review that found the city already faced a $50 million shortfall on construction projects that had not even started, thanks to inflation.

That review led city number crunchers to build inflationary pressures into the 2008 capital budget and also led the city to explore new ways to tender major projects, partly with the help of a new infrastructure specialist, Henry Hunter.

"I can emphatically tell you our staff has acknowledged the problem," said Katz, claiming the cost overruns on Chief Peguis Trail were only discovered as a result of the capital spending freeze and subsequent review.
"If we hadn't already been fixing the system, Coun. Vandal wouldn't even know there was a problem," the mayor continued.

"I welcome his sudden interest in capital cost overruns, but he should know from documents passed by council, the city auditor is looking into capital budgets. She's been doing so long before Coun. Vandal sought to make it an issue or seek press coverage."

Katz surmised Vandal's real issue with the Chief Peguis Trail extension may be that the city plans to finance the project through a public-private partnership, a mechanism unpopular with left-leaning members of council.

Vandal, however, said Winnipeggers are simply being left in the dark.

"When the mayor of the city doesn't have an answer, there's usually something wrong," he said.

bartley.kives@freepress.mb.ca

[1ajs]

City Approves Capital Budget
DEC 18 2007 01:00 PM
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The 2008 Capital Budget has been approved at City Hall.
Councillors voted 12-4 in favour of the five year plan which has a big focus on construction projects. Among those projects is the Chief Peguis Trail which will now cost 60-million dollars to build, up from an estimated 35-million and will be a public/private partnership or P3, with a target completion date of 2010.

The McGillivray widening project will no longer be a P3, but will be cash financed to provide room for the Chief Peguis Trail.

Councillors Jenny Gerbasi, Harvey Smith, Lillian Thomas and Dan Vandal voted against the budget.

CJOB's Chris Reid reporting.

[The Jabroni]

That's great. It will go ahead as planned.

So do we expect to see them digging as early as next year or the year after?

[Biff]

That's great. It will go ahead as planned.

So do we expect to see them digging as early as next year or the year after?


Site clearing and prep work should start in spring. Excavation in summer & fall and paving in 2009. Apparently the overpass at Rothesay will most likely be scrapped.

[1ajs]

thats a shame about the over pass...
lage should become elivated highway...

[MooseJets]

Apparently the overpass at Rothesay will most likely be scrapped.

I wonder how many sets of traffic lights the Chief Peguis extension will have? :sly:

[Greco Roman]

I wonder how many sets of traffic lights the Chief Peguis extension will have? :sly:


It's Winnipeg; you know there will be at least 20 :rolleyes:

[newflyer]

I am very happy to see this project deal finally get done. :D
2.1 Billion in new capital spending ... including this new expressway!!

Of course Vandal proved once again he's willing to put his union buddies ahead of the city. Anything to block a P3 agreement. What a shame such a bottom feeder made it back into council.... but luckily the city council still had overwelming support for the capital budget. Funny we heard nothing from Vandel when numerous Murray lead union built projects when miles over budget. I guess thats what is to be expected from a guy with such little integrity. I praise Katz for bringing in someone specialized who will oversee how the city will project capital costs in the future, including placing a buffer for inflation.

As far as the overpass .. I had not heard it was cancelled. In fact I believe it was part of the P3 agreement. If it has been taken out I will be disappointed, but hopefully it will still be an option in the future.

Now lets gets this baby started!! :cool:

[Only The Lonely..]

I am very happy to see this project deal finally get done. :D
2.1 Billion in new capital spending ... including this new expressway!!


WhOa! , Anything with as many traffic lights and at grade crossings as thing can hardly be considered an expressway.

Second, as a life long resident of NK (Gilmore Ave specifically) I can attest that traffic in this neighbourhood is hardly problematic. Even in the height of rushhour I can still get downtown in about 10 mins. To drive out to say, Crossroads, it takes no more than 7 mins.

This project came to be because 10 people living around a Cul De Sac made the world's biggest stink about (gasp) cars actually using their street. If you listened to those guys on Ragsdill you'd swear they were living on Portage Ave. Gilmore is at least twice as busy as that street and I find it quite manageable.

I wish our politicians worked nearly as hard to solve the very real traffic problems that exist along Pembina. For the same amount of money we could have bought the first line of a Rapid Transit link out to the university.

[Pootkao]

Is there any sort of timeline for completing the Cheif Peguis west to Route 90, or even McPhillips?

Because this is a REALLY REALLY great idea if we want to rejuvinate downtown.
Make it even easier for suburbanites to avoid it completely.

[Biff]

I wonder how many sets of traffic lights the Chief Peguis extension will have? :sly:


4 - Henderson Hwy, Rothesay, Gateway and Lagimodiere.

[The Jabroni]

edit

[flatlander]

There is no way this project can be justified given current construction costs. Wait for the next recession, if ever.

[rrskylar]

There is no way this project can be justified given current construction costs. Wait for the next recession, if ever.

^ I would venture to guess that you don't live in NE Winnipeg, those of us living in NE Winnipeg have waited for close to 30 years for this project to proceed as south Winnipeg roadways were transformed and modernized, ex. Sterling Lyon, Bishop Grandin, etc. We too pay taxes, some of us more than most in south Winnipeg!

[Spocket]

There is no way this project can be justified given current construction costs. Wait for the next recession, if ever.

Actually , there's probably a good case to be made that it's the cheaper alternative in the long run. The roads that carry all the East/West traffic right now were never meant to and the solution is to either reconstruct them all (and in the very short term probably) or allow them to slip beyond tolerable maintenance standards.

[flatlander]

I'm just saying that at some point, when the cost of a project doubles, you have to reevaluate it's value. I would say the same for any project in south Winnipeg. I don't live in the north or south end, but more central.

I suppose the only rationale I can find for doing it now, is that it may cost more to do it later. But I have a hard time thinking this is the best way to spend $65M.

[Corndogger]

I believe it is a P3 project ... as the Charleswood Parkway is. The City's contribution to construction will only be a fraction of the total cost.

You would think that would be a given if the city is only going to spend $65 million and people are expecting more than one interchange. How long is the extension supposed to be? Realistically, $65 million is not going to get you much.

[The Jabroni]

You would think that would be a given if the city is only going to spend $65 million and people are expecting more than one interchange. How long is the extension supposed to be? Realistically, $65 million is not going to get you much.

About 3 km, give or take a few.

[newflyer]

I'm just saying that at some point, when the cost of a project doubles, you have to reevaluate it's value. I would say the same for any project in south Winnipeg. I don't live in the north or south end, but more central.

I suppose the only rationale I can find for doing it now, is that it may cost more to do it later. But I have a hard time thinking this is the best way to spend $65M.

The fact is they were using labour rates from an 80's report.. of course it was out of date. Prices have gone up since 1986.

Buracrats basing there estimates on out of date info just doesn't work.

[MooseJets]

4 - Henderson Hwy, Rothesay, Gateway and Lagimodiere.


That's already too many lights. :yuck: According to the drawing in yesterday's Free Press the Peguis extension will also cross Religh and Springfield Road. So we're looking at possibly 6 sets of lights!

[The Jabroni]

Down with downsizing! :(

[newflyer]

That's already too many lights. :yuck: According to the drawing in yesterday's Free Press the Peguis extension will also cross Religh and Springfield Road. So we're looking at possibly 6 sets of lights!

Living in cowtown, I don't have access to everything. Is there design picks you can post online?

[Only The Lonely..]

4 - Henderson Hwy, Rothesay, Gateway and Lagimodiere.

I heard somewhere that Rothesay is going to be a no-access flyover.

I wish they budgeted a little bit more to create a simple overpass at Raleigh / Gateway.

[Biff]

That's already too many lights. :yuck: According to the drawing in yesterday's Free Press the Peguis extension will also cross Religh and Springfield Road. So we're looking at possibly 6 sets of lights!

The plan is actually to sever Raliegh at Donwood to the south and Gilmore to the North (so no intersection). They are also severing Springfield Rd after the access to Dunits Drive to the West and just after the automotive businesses on the east end by the lake (so no intersection). There is only the possibility of 4 intersections - Henderson, Rothesay, Gateway and Lagimodiere.

The Rothesay flyover might be a no go because they underestimated the cost of moving all of the utilities in the area to accomodate the underpass. Apparently the actual flyover would only cost approx $4 to $5 mil but the prep work might make it cost prohibitive.

[The Jabroni]

Well, at least the traffic lights should be synchronized by then. Going down Route 90 on Kenaston the other day was a breeze. :)

[rrskylar]

Rising costs force changes in city's Chief Peguis plans
Residents fear trail's new design will end quiet neighbourhood

By: Joe Paraskevas

Updated: March 17, 2008 at 02:00 AM CDT


Residents of North Kildonan and people who attend a church there fear the latest plans for the proposed Chief Peguis Trail extension will signal an end to their quiet neighbourhood.

Rising infrastructure costs have forced the city to drastically alter the project, surprising residents of Douglas Avenue and Rothesay Street and members of the Douglas Mennonite Church.





Residents had been led to believe the major new road would sweep underneath Rothesay, but new plans now have Chief Peguis east from Henderson Highway to Lagimodiere Boulevard meeting Rothesay at a level, traffic-light-controlled intersection.

City sources say building an underpass as initially planned would cost millions of dollars more than had been expected.

The change is a huge cause of concern for residents in the area, many of whom will now find their homes behind a 3.6-metre-high concrete sound barrier as they also face increased traffic jams and pedestrian safety concerns.

Even to area residents who had known since they bought their homes that the Chief Peguis extension was on the drawing board at city hall, the design changes are disappointing.

"We bought the house knowing the freeway was coming, but not a barrier in our front yard and not a four-way (intersection), which I'm deeply concerned about because we have elementary school children and they'll be crossing six lanes of traffic," said one resident whose house will look onto the new road and who asked not to be identified.

"I'm not sure who would buy our house after we have such a thing to look out on," the resident added, referring to the concrete sound barrier.

An engineer with the city's public works department said the same number of houses would be hidden behind the barriers whether the city built an underpass or a level intersection. The same official admitted, however, that an underpass would have meant Chief Peguis would be built about five metres below the level of Rothesay, further buffering the sound.

Recently, the city held an open house at Douglas Mennonite. The city revealed plans for a level intersection as well as plans for the new road and it solicited feedback from the public.

The church is situated at what would be the corner of Rothesay and the Chief Peguis Trail. Under the new plan, the pulpit of the church will be less than a stone's throw from a major traffic-light intersection of double-lane roads.

More than 500 people attended the meeting at Douglas Mennonite Church and by Friday the city had received more than 250 replies to its survey and request for comments.

The city originally gave residents eight days to be heard, but it extended that deadline on the public works department web page to March 19.

"This is still in the preliminary design stage," said Neil Myska, streets planning engineer for the department of public works.

"So, that's the option that has been presented to the public to get comments," Myska added, referring to the level-crossing design. "Based on the comments that we get back, there can be a number of changes made to the plan. So, it's not set in stone yet. There's a possibility of change."

George Klassen, a spokesman for Douglas Mennonite's 500-member congregation on the new road plans, said the church would lose some of its property for a turning lane with a four-way intersection. Such a move could hamper the church's growth, he added.

"I really question the wisdom of (a level intersection)" said Klassen, a project manager for a Winnipeg construction company.

Don Rempel Boschman, the church's senior pastor, said traffic lights at Rothesay and Chief Peguis would lead to congestion, traffic noise and safety problems for children heading to three area schools.

"The design change changes a lot of things," Rempel Boschman said. "For our church, in summer and late spring you have your windows open on a Sunday morning. Right now it's very quiet, but suddenly our church windows will be open on a very, very busy intersection."

The first design of an underpass at Rothesay and Chief Peguis would almost double the cost of the entire extension project, increasing it by $40 million to $60 million, Myska said.

Asked if the city now rejected the possibility of an underpass, Myska was unsure. "I can't answer that, at this point," he said.

The proposed $64-million Chief Peguis Trail extension is one of the biggest infrastructure projects on the city's horizon.

It is scheduled to be completed by 2010.

North Kildonan Coun. Jeff Browaty said the addition of land drainage pumps and other construction costs had pushed up the price of an underpass at Chief Peguis and Rothesay.

Civic officials made the decision to replace the underpass with traffic lights after a private company conducted a design study last year, said Browaty.

"It certainly is an inconvenience for the church," he added.

Final designs for Chief Peguis aren't slated to be ready until early 2009, Browaty added. Residents have until next Wednesday to submit feedback for the current design, he said. There is no hurry to submit feedback for the final design plans.

joe.paraskevas@freepress.mb.ca

Chief Peguis Trail history

Chief Peguis Trail was identified as part of the city's Inner Ring Route in the 1968 Winnipeg Area Transportation study.

Phase 1 of the trail linking Main Street and Henderson Highway, including the Kildonan Settlers Bridge, opened in October 1990.

More than 26,000 daily trips are made over the bridge today. Springfield Road, a collector street, carried about 5,900 vehicles per day before the bridge opened. Now, it carries more than 18,000.

The Chief Peguis Trail extension is being planned with accompanying paved multi-use paths and a 200-space Transit Park Ride stop at Henderson Highway.

Plans call for the closure of Raleigh Street between Donwood Drive and Gilmore Avenue and between Algonquin Avenue and Knowles Avenue.

City council chose the Peguis project for a public-private partnership.

[Only The Lonely..]

What a joke.

Although, its not like any of us didn't see this one coming. Winnipeg has a proud history of doing things half assed to save a few bucks, why break that tradition?

[j.online]

Should NK residents be concerned that an at-grade highway will do to their neighborhood what the Disraeli did to Point Douglas?

[Spocket]

^That's apples and oranges though.

The Disraeli isn't at grade. Point Douglas was already in decline (although it's certainly fair to point out that the freeway didn't help) There has always been a plan to construct the CPT extension and its construction doesn't actually change the fact that there is a corridor that bisects the area already.

Anyway, we can argue about cost as well but in the long run this is the cheaper route even with cost-overruns. Sprinfield, McLeod, Knowles...all of these streets are carrying the traffic that the CPT extension is supposed to. These strees aren't designed for the kind of traffic they are handling. If we have to rebuild all of them it will cost us far more than to simply construct the CPT extension. Aside from that, these streets are residential collectors not arteries meaning that this also presents a safety concern as traffic increases. If we want to stop any future CPTs then the solution is to re-think the planning principles down at city hall. It's too late for this particular area but in future we might be able to avoid this sort of dilemma.

[The Jabroni]

What a joke.

Although, its not like any of us didn't see this one coming. Winnipeg has a proud history of doing things half assed to save a few bucks, why break that tradition?

Well, this city is already known for being the frugal and thrifty type out of the other cities in Canada, so we're bound with it. One of many reasons why we have a Red Apple downtown.:koko:

I'm no traffic engineer, but I think an at-grade crossing of Rothesay and Chief Peguis is a bad idea, and I mean, very bad. If the city wants things done right, they have to stick to the original plan!

Unfortunately, that last part is null, all because the city caved in due to rising costs. "Oh man, the costs are rising! Better take out that underpass instead!"

It would be very unusual to be stopping every 900 metres with the speed limit at 80 km/h at every intersection between Henderson and the Lag. Then again, they should implement traffic light synchronization to it by then.

[j.online]

Good point about the differences between the 2 neighborhoods, Spocket. PD likely would be in the same situation today with or without the Disraeli.

I can't help but think, though, that we might be missing a few lessons learned from the countless highways that have bisected existing neighborhoods across North America. I know the trail has been planned since the 60s, but no matter how it's put, building a highway blocks from 3 major schools that hundreds of kids walk/bike to every day is concerning. Building it below grade helped mitigate this - I can see why residents are a bit miffed now.

All that being said, when looking at Winnipeg's big picture, with the number of large scale capital projects on the horizon with little to no money to complete them, I question the judgement of building this highway now. Me thinks putting this capital into rapid transit, or a proper trucking transport system, or even expanded convention center would currently be a better return of investment for the city in terms of growth rather than another suburban commuter highway.

[MooseJets]

This is garbage. Build the CPT right, or don't build it at all. We don't need anymore freakin traffic lights in this city. :hell:

[Greco Roman]

What a joke.

Although, its not like any of us didn't see this one coming. Winnipeg has a proud history of doing things half assed to save a few bucks, why break that tradition?


No, I'm not surprised at all. In fact, weren't there rumors months back about these overpasses being scrapped, along with overpasses proposed for the new Kenaston extension? This gives Calgarians and those who are like-minded yet another reason to proclaim their superiority over Winnipeg, and I'm so frustrated at this point that I almost don't blame them for doing so.

Honestly, as much as I love Winnipeg, I am losing hope with each passing day that things will ever be done (planned, constructed, maintained) properly in that city, and that my decision to move to Edmonton on a permanent basis is an appropriate one.

[TSN]

No, I'm not surprised at all. In fact, weren't there rumors months back about these overpasses being scrapped, along with overpasses proposed for the new Kenaston extension? This gives Calgarians and those who are like-minded yet another reason to proclaim their superiority over Winnipeg, and I'm so frustrated at this point that I almost don't blame them for doing so.

Honestly, as much as I love Winnipeg, I am losing hope with each passing day that things will ever be done (planned, constructed, maintained) properly in that city, and that my decision to move to Edmonton on a permanent basis is an appropriate one.

Bang on. Edmonton can seem to do things on the cheap compared to most other cities but its nothing like Winnipeg. Just like you, it seems like it's getting harder and harder for me to defend this place and after coming back a few months ago after being away for several years, it's disappointing to see other cities move forward while here, it's all stuck in time.

Every city wrestles with project costs but no place dwells on the short term as much as Winnipeg. Seems to be a failure to take into account 'the long term costs of not doing things right' on everything. I guess there's always hope but its fading.

[The Jabroni]

Bang on. Edmonton can seem to do things on the cheap compared to most other cities but its nothing like Winnipeg. Just like you, it seems like it's getting harder and harder for me to defend this place and after coming back a few months ago after being away for several years, it's disappointing to see other cities move forward while here, it's all stuck in time.

Every city wrestles with project costs but no place dwells on the short term as much as Winnipeg. Seems to be a failure to take into account 'the long term costs of not doing things right' on everything. I guess there's always hope but its fading.

Agreed.

It's like we're being set up to fail, and most of the time, we do. Even when we get "lucky," things get half-assed.

[Only The Lonely..]

All that being said, when looking at Winnipeg's big picture, with the number of large scale capital projects on the horizon with little to no money to complete them, I question the judgement of building this highway now. Me thinks putting this capital into rapid transit, or a proper trucking transport system, or even expanded convention center would currently be a better return of investment for the city in terms of growth rather than another suburban commuter highway.


I agree, this is a good recession make work project.

[rrskylar]

Good point about the differences between the 2 neighborhoods, Spocket. PD likely would be in the same situation today with or without the Disraeli.

I can't help but think, though, that we might be missing a few lessons learned from the countless highways that have bisected existing neighborhoods across North America. I know the trail has been planned since the 60s, but no matter how it's put, building a highway blocks from 3 major schools that hundreds of kids walk/bike to every day is concerning. Building it below grade helped mitigate this - I can see why residents are a bit miffed now.

All that being said, when looking at Winnipeg's big picture, with the number of large scale capital projects on the horizon with little to no money to complete them, I question the judgement of building this highway now. Me thinks putting this capital into rapid transit, or a proper trucking transport system, or even expanded convention center would currently be a better return of investment for the city in terms of growth rather than another suburban commuter highway.



Just out of curiosity, what part of the city do you live in?

[j.online]

In the village now, but proudly grew up in the NK hood. Don't get me wrong, I know how much a better commuter freeway is needed out there every time I go visit my parents. I just question the prioirity of building it now over some of the other major capital project facing our city.

[Spocket]

^I think the reasoning is that if we don't build it now , we'll be stuck with the cost of building it in the near future anyway as well as a total rebuilding of the streets that are handling the traffic currently (Springfield in particular) The other reason is probably (well, almost certainly) because growth has resumed on the other side of Lagimodiere right about where the CPT will terminate for the time being. The added traffic will simply be too much on those streets (which isn't to say that it isn't already too much)

Personally I would prefer to see North/South corridor running between Raleigh and Gateway turned into a rapid transit line first but I suppose it's fair to point out that that wouldn't solve the East/West traffic problems we currently have in EK.

[Biff]

I didn't see this coming...




City approves ring road concept
By: Bartley Kives

Updated: March 19 at 12:34 PM CDT

Winnipeg city council has approved the principle of completing an inner ring road and upgrading Winnipeg's transportation infrastructure despite minority concerns about the costs.


Council voted 10-4 this morning to approve the final report of the Mayor's Trade Council, a nine-member body appointed explore ways the city can take advantage of global trade opportunities.

Councillors Jenny Gerbasi, Dan Vandal, Harvey Smith and Lillian Thomas argued it would be folly to approve the report in principle before city staff figure out how much it would cost to build the new roads in question.

Mayor Sam Katz and his allies countered city staff will study the report in detail before adding any new major projects to Winnipeg's long-term construction plan.

The fractious debate, which saw some councillors resort to personal jabs, sucked up 75 minutes of a city council session that will also see local politicians decide whether to alter a development deal with volunteer group Friends of Upper Fort Garry, who want to build a heritage park at 100 Main St.

That debate is slated to take place after 1:30 p.m.

bartley.kives@freepress.mb.ca

[Greco Roman]

I didn't see this coming...




City approves ring road concept
By: Bartley Kives

Updated: March 19 at 12:34 PM CDT

Winnipeg city council has approved the principle of completing an inner ring road and upgrading Winnipeg's transportation infrastructure despite minority concerns about the costs.


Council voted 10-4 this morning to approve the final report of the Mayor's Trade Council, a nine-member body appointed explore ways the city can take advantage of global trade opportunities.

Councillors Jenny Gerbasi, Dan Vandal, Harvey Smith and Lillian Thomas argued it would be folly to approve the report in principle before city staff figure out how much it would cost to build the new roads in question.

Mayor Sam Katz and his allies countered city staff will study the report in detail before adding any new major projects to Winnipeg's long-term construction plan.

The fractious debate, which saw some councillors resort to personal jabs, sucked up 75 minutes of a city council session that will also see local politicians decide whether to alter a development deal with volunteer group Friends of Upper Fort Garry, who want to build a heritage park at 100 Main St.

That debate is slated to take place after 1:30 p.m.

bartley.kives@freepress.mb.ca

But again, this doesn't define what "kind" of ring road is being considered: an at-grade traffic light Winnipeg-style roadway, or a freeflowing traffic light-free efficient roadway.

Oh, and again, down with the Friends! :D

[Spocket]

I'm not really surprised about the ring road. Actually, I don't understand why this is even on the discussion itinerary. It's pretty much always been on the boards to build an inner ring road. You just need to look at a map to see where it's going to go for that matter. So they must be talking about actually building it (or really, completing it) Umm....that part I don't really get. Improving what's there right now makes sense and I always advocate for these improvements. There's no hurry for the Kildonan Corridor (that's from the CPT over the northwest of the city to Brookside Blvd)

Mind you, all they said was that they agreed with the idea in principle. Sure, whatever. I agree with Bill Gates making a large cash deposit into my bank account in principle too.

[rrskylar]

From todays Freep, letters to the editor:


North versus south

Only in north Winnipeg would planners decide to implement a controlled level crossing at an intersection of a freeway and a small residential street (Rising costs force changes in city's Chief Peguis plans, March 17). Either reinstate the original underpass plans, cut the street off and install an overhead pedestrian bridge or junk the entire project. I can't imagine a more dangerous situation. A ludicrous modification to this much needed roadway would never even be considered in south Winnipeg.

Jeff Couch

Winnipeg

[The Jabroni]

Jeff Couch is right on the money.

[Greco Roman]

From todays Freep, letters to the editor:


North versus south

Only in north Winnipeg would planners decide to implement a controlled level crossing at an intersection of a freeway and a small residential street (Rising costs force changes in city's Chief Peguis plans, March 17). Either reinstate the original underpass plans, cut the street off and install an overhead pedestrian bridge or junk the entire project. I can't imagine a more dangerous situation. A ludicrous modification to this much needed roadway would never even be considered in south Winnipeg.

Jeff Couch

Winnipeg

Au contraire, mon frere.

Again, I bring up the junking of the overpasses on the proposed Kenaston Blvd. extention. Only in the city of Winnipeg would this BE considered :rolleyes:

[theruler462]

Exactly, I'm trying to picture even one overpass in the south of Winnipeg and I can't seem to be able to...

[thegreattait]

Bishop and Pembina, but there are still lights on Pembina so I don't know how much of an overpass that is its a 50% job on that one.

[rypinion]

Bishop and Pembina, but there are still lights on Pembina so I don't know how much of an overpass that is its a 50% job on that one.

I would expect the Bishop and Pembina overpass to be exactly as they had optimally designed. It is a Parclo A4 interchange as described in:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parclo_interchange

They are considered safer than (and the successor to) the cloverleaf. My assumption is that this is exactly as originally designed, although I could be wrong.

[trueviking]

this project is a stupid idea....is this really a top priority for the city?....check the long list of valuable things cut from the city budget in the paper today....how can building a suburban freeway from nowhere to nowhere be tops on the list?...its not even in the top 50 things winnipeg needs most...i hope it dies a horrible death.

slash the tree maintenance budget in half so we can afford a pointless freeway that seemingly accomplishes nothing.

[rrskylar]

Makeover ordered for Chief Peguis extension

By: Joe Paraskevas

Updated: March 25 at 12:55 AM CDT

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A north Winnipeg councillor has sent city staff back to the drawing board over a controversial intersection planned for the Chief Peguis Trail.

North Kildonan Coun. Jeff Browaty said Monday he has asked city administrators to look into alternatives to the proposed design of an intersection between Rothesay Street and the planned extension of Chief Peguis Trail, a four-lane road meant to be a major east-west route across the city's northern reaches.

Rather than build an underpass at Rothesay and have Chief Peguis traffic flow virtually unimpeded, the city proposed building a traffic-light controlled intersection due to skyrocketing construction costs. The city asked the public for feedback at a public meeting three weeks ago.

Browaty, who lives along the trail's proposed route, said he was "disappointed" when he saw details of the $64-million new road at the meeting.

"(The intersection with) Rothesay isn't good," he said, noting he is concerned about young people crossing the roads to go to nearby schools.

He suggested alternatives.

One involves blocking off Rothesay on each side of Chief Peguis. Traffic could use on- and off-ramps to access the new road, Browaty suggested, and emergency vehicles could be rerouted.

Pedestrians would have a dedicated overpass.

"It would probably (cost) less..." Browaty said.

He also suggested a "scaled-down underpass." Under that option, planners would narrow the boulevard separating traffic on Chief Peguis. A bike path would cross Rothesay at a level intersection, rather than follow Chief Peguis through the underpass, Browaty said.

The city has estimated the underpass would cost as much as $60 million.

Construction of Chief Peguis from Henderson Highway east to Lagimodi ®re Boulevard will start next year.

joe.paraskevas@freepress.mb.ca