[trueviking]

From todays Free Press:

I have long been a proponent of an idea like this...their plan is to close only one block of albert, which i support as a first step, but i can envision one day all of albert from the park to notre dame closed off, with shops all along it.

specialty clothing stores and boutiques are popping up in the exchange, as well as across the city on streets like corydon and academy.....if the city closed off this street and did some renderings showing a destination boutique strip, i think it might work.

waterfront drive, 100 main and now the avenue building RFP shows that winnipeg business steps up for these ideas...it seems they just need the first push....show them the potential and they get on board.

maybe this should be an initiative for the urban advocacy group that you guys are trying to form...i am going to try and contact them to throw my support their way....maybe help them with some renderings.

what are your thoughts?

Power to the pedestrian
Petitioners want to close off a block of Albert Street for foot traffic only

Sat Mar 31 2007

Sitelines / By Ian Tizzard

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/ips_rich_content/340-X00014_9.JPG

Susanne Klueppel and Anders Swanson on the stretch of Albert Street they’d like to see closed to vehicular traffic.


SUSANNE Klueppel and Anders Swanson want a first for Winnipeg -- a permanent street closure that would create a pedestrian mall in the middle of a downtown commercial and residential area.
About three weeks ago, they circulated a petition that asks the public works department to study the idea of barring vehicle traffic on a 100-metre stretch of Albert Street between Bannatyne and McDermot avenues.

"We don't want to block emergency vehicles, and there's no getting around delivery trucks, but we'd like to limit it to just that," says Klueppel.


To get the process started, she and Swanson need signatures from 70 per cent of the building and business owners at seven addresses along the block.

"We've been closing the street for Car Free Day two years in a row," says Klueppel, who works at Natural Cycle, a bike shop and messenger service located in one of the petitioned buildings. "It would be nice to have it permanently closed."
Klueppel notes that a number of cities have a pedestrian mall, including Victoria, Ottawa, Montreal, Regina and Calgary.

The initial supporters of the idea are still developing a detailed plan. But the information delivered with the petition showed a small artist's rendition of the block as it looks today, except with people instead of cars on the street.

"If the idea is just to close the street and keep the same streetscape, I won't be for it," says Chad Garchinski, owner of the Fyxx, a restaurant next door to the building in which Klueppel and Swanson work. He says he plans to sign the petition, although with some reservations. "Do they expect many people are going to walk around for the six months of winter?"

"I assume everybody's going to have ideas," says Klueppel, who envisions having benches, public art, street vendors and a place where people who have attended nearby events can congregate. Gino Distasio, director of the Institute of Urban Studies at the University of Winnipeg, agrees that the block as a pedestrian mall could become an added draw for people attending the fringe festival or the jazz festival.

He says urban planners generally accept the need to allow some vehicular traffic on a pedestrian mall during off-peak hours.

But the small distance the block on Albert covers and the small number of vehicles that uses it make a unique combination.

"Traditional pedestrian malls are bigger than what they're proposing, but it might lend itself to being an interesting experiment," says Distasio, who suggests the city could try it out for a month without too much controversy.

"The project needs a traffic study, but it's hard to find fault with the idea on the face of it." Back on Albert Street, business owners see some potential drawbacks.

"It's a nice and simple idea and we're a pedestrian-friendly business," says Bryson Maternick, who owns the Lineup restaurant, across from the Fyxx. "We get a lot of walk-in traffic in the restaurant. But we get drive-up traffic, too," he says, adding that, for now, he supports studying the idea only.

Maternick's concern is well-founded, according to Lisa Holowchuk, executive director of the Exchange District BIZ.

"It's a concept that's worked really well in some cases, and failed miserably in others," she says.

"This isn't something that just affects the businesses facing this block," says Holowchuk, whose organization is trying to maintain an ideal commercial climate in an area where businesses share a lot of customers. "People have to really understand what they're getting into, especially in a city where people love their cars so much."

For his part, Swanson prefers biking and walking to driving, and suggests an argument that mixes his ideals with commerce.

"It's a pretty easy idea to wrap your head around; it's a short block, already cobblestoned," he says. "People associate cars with money. It's true, but it's a matter of whether you depend on people parking directly in front of your door. A Wal-Mart needs cars. A heritage area like this, people prefer to see it on foot."


ian.tizzard@freepress.mb.ca

[rgalston]

Why mess with a good thing? That block appears to be the city's best example of where cars, bicylces and pedestrians can sucessfully co-exist.

I really don't think half as many of the businesses that opened up on or near Albert Street in the last couple of years would have done so if there was a pedestrian mall.

"I assume everybody's going to have ideas," says Klueppel, who envisions having benches, public art, street vendors and a place where people who have attended nearby events can congregate.
If the park across the street isn't enough "gathering space" for you, I suppose.

[Lee_Haber8]

Why mess with a good thing? That block appears to be the city's best example of where cars, bicylces and pedestrians can sucessfully co-exist.

I really don't think half as many of the businesses that opened up on or near Albert Street in the last couple of years would have done so if there was a pedestrian mall.

"I assume everybody's going to have ideas," says Klueppel, who envisions having benches, public art, street vendors and a place where people who have attended nearby events can congregate.
If the park across the street isn't enough "gathering space" for you, I suppose.

You may be right. I fear there is not enough of a critical mass of people living in the area and good enough transit near by to ensure opening the street to pedestrians will be successful. For now one block may work, but in the future when tens of thousands of people are living in the area then I could possibly see the entire exchange district becoming a pedestrian village

[flatlander]

I'd prefer to see more carrots for pedestrians than sticks for cars. Make it as pedestrian friendly as possible and ensure that people have priority over cars. Is there an example of a really great pedestrian-only street that works? Sparks Street and Stephen Avenue don't do much for me.

[rgalston]

I'd prefer to see more carrots for pedestrians than sticks for cars. Make it as pedestrian friendly as possible and ensure that people have priority over cars. Is there an example of a really great pedestrian-only street that works? Sparks Street and Stephen Avenue don't do much for me.

Good point. The presence of motor vehicles on roadways is not the problem. The problem is when the rapid movement of motor vehicles comes at the expense of other uses--parking, dropping off, shopping, walking, resting--that the street's vibrancy dies out. Albert Street presently strikes a good balance of uses, and that's why it's becoming so popular (and why my wife is spending my money there as we speak). Corydon, a street with higher traffic volumes, also strikes a good balance. Streets with even larger volumes can do that: Manhattan avenues and Parisian boulevards do; Portage Avenue and Main Street used to.

Temporary street closures can be a good thing: they close Bannatyne from Arthur to King during Fringe Fest (don't they close King from Bannatyne to William, too?) and it's great. They could do the same for Albert and Arthur during Fringe, Jazz, and other big events, but I don't think a full time closure is neccessary in making the street more nicer, or would be better for business.

[trueviking]

i dont know...last time i was in calgary, stephen ave was packed....and it was -3C.

i dont agree that it would be messing up a good thing.....i dont consider what is happening in the exchange to be a "good thing" yet...i see about 5% of its potential being met....is it 'so popular'?...99% of winnipegers couldnt find albert street....less have ever shopped there.

i think winnipeg needs a push to develop things like the exchange district...it is busy in the summer during the week, but beyond that people do not go there....i look at a pedestrian street as a marketing tool almost....it will get into the consciousness of winnipeg's public and retailers...look at waterfront drive...it took the city to say, here, build residential in the exchange around this unique feature that we have created.... and they did.....if the city hadnt done that, there would have been no spark for it to happen....and it would not have.

a pedestrian strip might be a similar catalyst....if i am looking to set up a women's clothing boutique, i might think about that street, as it is something different....instead of next to the IGA on taylor....the exchange is not the first place that comes to mind for these retailers or shoppers...but to be part of something unique in the city, it might become an attraction for them....

right now boutique retail is spread across the city...there is no single node...a good marketing campaign along with this idea could begin to create interest in that sector to come together to form something unique.....they wont do it individually...it will take a single bold move to get them to think that way...like waterfront drive.....i am sure that half the people living there never considered living downtown before that developemnt

the west exchange is becoming reasonably attractive, but there is a long long way to go...i would hardly call it successful....the injection of something unique might also give another node, besides the river to develop residential around....marketing a building that overlooks winnipeg's first pedestiran strip might make it attractive beyond just the normal warehouse property.

really, i figure what is there to lose....it might fail, but it might totally work...what is the worst that could happen?...trying new things is the only way to achieve more.

stephen ave was a failure for a decade, but now it is the centre of life in downtown calgary.

the exchange needs a push...something like this might be it....the park has reasonable success....this would draw it further into the neighbourhood....even if it was only seasonal.

[1ajs]

steven ave is nice thats somthing that calgary has i kinda wish we had...
but albert street why not the one a block over... then you can do the hole block from notre dame to old market square fill in the surface lots.....

[newflyer]

i dont know...last time i was in calgary, stephen ave was packed....and it was -3C.

i dont agree that it would be messing up a good thing.....i dont consider what is happening in the exchange to be a "good thing" yet...i see about 5% of its potential being met....is it 'so popular'?...99% of winnipegers couldnt find albert street....less have ever shopped there.

i think winnipeg needs a push to develop things like the exchange district...it is busy in the summer during the week, but beyond that people do not go there....i look at a pedestrian street as a marketing tool almost....it will get into the consciousness of winnipeg's public and retailers...look at waterfront drive...it took the city to say, here, build residential in the exchange around this unique feature that we have created.... and they did.....if the city hadnt done that, there would have been no spark for it to happen....and it would not have.

a pedestrian strip might be a similar catalyst....if i am looking to set up a women's clothing boutique, i might think about that street, as it is something different....instead of next to the IGA on taylor....the exchange is not the first place that comes to mind for these retailers or shoppers...but to be part of something unique in the city, it might become an attraction for them....

right now boutique retail is spread across the city...there is no single node...a good marketing campaign along with this idea could begin to create interest in that sector to come together to form something unique.....they wont do it individually...it will take a single bold move to get them to think that way...like waterfront drive.....i am sure that half the people living there never considered living downtown before that developemnt

the west exchange is becoming reasonably attractive, but there is a long long way to go...i would hardly call it successful....the injection of something unique might also give another node, besides the river to develop residential around....marketing a building that overlooks winnipeg's first pedestiran strip might make it attractive beyond just the normal warehouse property.

really, i figure what is there to lose....it might fail, but it might totally work...what is the worst that could happen?...trying new things is the only way to achieve more.

stephen ave was a failure for a decade, but now it is the centre of life in downtown calgary.

the exchange needs a push...something like this might be it....the park has reasonable success....this would draw it further into the neighbourhood....even if it was only seasonal.

I agree with you ... I think that would be a great place for a pedestrian mall. Its right next to P&M .. so if it were marketed correctly it could easily turn into Winnipeg's very own Stephen Avenue Mall. Restaurants, bars, shops, street venders and cafes .. all combining to make for a really comfortable and vibrant environment.

Just keep in mind when Steven Ave was converted to a pedestrian mall it was a dive ... very grubby. With some good marketing as well as new commericial highrises in the area it has turned out to be extremely successful. The Flames will be opening there new sports bar in the old Palace Theater in the next week or two. I saw them turn on the video screens today, they've placed on the marque. It will raise the level of the strip once it opens. I got a little peak and it is going to be great!! Once it warms up a few degrees Stephen Avenue will be packed ... even on weekends.

If Albert Street becomes as successful as Stephen Ave Mall .. it will become a destination place... and drive up interest in redevloping the older buildings in the area. I really think this is a great idea.

[newflyer]

maybe this should be an initiative for the urban advocacy group that you guys are trying to form...i am going to try and contact them to throw my support their way....maybe help them with some renderings.

Once again you are reading my mind... the group should be a business proponant group. As this role is not really filled directly in terms of downtown revitilization.

You have the Chmaber, which is a business organization, aimed at sharing resources and advocating business interests.

You have Centre Venture which is a city run property marketing group.

... and you have alot of individual businesses which are looking for new ideas and concepts. There is a gap between the three.

If the group could fill the roll of marring the three groups, where concepts and ideas drive new interst in downtown, then you'd have something.

Just saying how you hate parking lots .. or you wished more poeple would live and work downtown ... doesn't really mean much, without solid ideas to drive the demand. It could easily turn into a complaint club, which is not what you want. Keep in mind it is increased demand which leads to developement.

The mission of the group should be to drive demand for downtown revitilization through creative ideas and concepts, communicating and selling those concepts to the business community, development community and the general public.

I realize that a tall order, but with that in mind the possibilities to assist in revitalizing downtown could be much closer to reality.

[newflyer]

Oh and True Viking .. stop thinking like me. It creeps me out. :D

[Lee_Haber8]

I'd prefer to see more carrots for pedestrians than sticks for cars. Make it as pedestrian friendly as possible and ensure that people have priority over cars. Is there an example of a really great pedestrian-only street that works? Sparks Street and Stephen Avenue don't do much for me.

Rue Prince Arthur in Montreal seems to work just fine. There was a piece I read about how Hong Kong transportation is pedestrianizing streets there. They say there are several criteria you need to make a pedestrian-only street. For instance you can only use fairly narrow streets and you need to have a dense variety of uses nearby

[good_dude]

RE: albert street closure
I can't believe some business owners are concerned about closing that block off to cars - there's only like 5 spots on the whole street! This is friggin unreal

Close the bastard off it'll do car-bound folks some good to walk 10 paces from the car to their favourite shop - oh - and maybe interact with some human beings in the open air in a cobblestone street

[newflyer]

RE: albert street closure
I can't believe some business owners are concerned about closing that block off to cars - there's only like 5 spots on the whole street! This is friggin unreal

Close the bastard off it'll do car-bound folks some good to walk 10 paces from the car to their favourite shop - oh - and maybe interact with some human beings in the open air in a cobblestone street

I agree .. the pedestrain concept for this street would far outweigh the car traffic benefit.

From a business point of view this is a very good idea.

[newflyer]

In many ways this pedestrian mall could be a massive boost to downtown.

Imagine hundreds of people staying after work and dinning and shopping after work... or coming outside during lunch.

Add in a few new restaurants and cafes on the strip... and it could spin into something very exciting.

[Andy6]

- and maybe interact with some human beings in the open air in a cobblestone street

I guess the question is what sort of interactions and what sort of human beings one is likely to find on a closed street in that area.

It could work, but Winnipeg's short summer means that a business that is built on walk-in traffic is going to have to also find a way to attract customers in November, December, January etc.

[Only The Lonely..]

I wouldn't mind if they closed Albert St. on Saturday's during the summer months and had a farmers market or something like that.

Otherwise, I don't see a need to close the street, especially during the winter months.

[SpongeG]

ooh it looks bustling in that pic

[Boris2k7]

*Ahem*

Stephen Ave in November... overcast and generally chilly day...
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/4644/dscn1830mg1.jpg

Now, I know that Winnipeg may get a bit, well, colder, but this can work people. Listen to Trueviking, he knows what he's talking about...

[Jolly]

Banker's Hall, Scotia Centre and the Home and Dome Towers are in complexes adjacent to Stephen Avenue. I suspect those five towers house *substantially* more office workers than the complexes at P&M. And of course there are more office towers within a few blocks. I don't think Albert Street has the concentrations at a hand to make it the next Stephen Avenue.

Whatever the merits of blocking off Albert St., comparisons with Calgary seem somewhat pointless.

[1ajs]

aww you would be surprized how many plp work around that area that go and have lunch around there spend a day in the exchange some time and watch the plp...

now if the bay in downtown calgary would get some serious renovations its a tad bit run down...

[rgalston]

This issue looks like it will be on CTV News tonight.

I wonder, would anyone here live on a street that was closed entirely to car traffic?

[fengshui]

Not if it were lined with outdoor patios open until 2:00 am (like Prince Arthur in Montreal - love the street, wouldn't live on the street). Sadly, traffic noise seems a lot less intrusive than people noise.

[someone123]

The real question is whether or not removing vehicles actually generates pedestrian traffic.

Stephen Ave in Calgary may be busy but it would probably be busy anyway if there were cars, or at least that pedestrian traffic would still be present in the downtown in some form and would give rise to the same sorts of businesses. The level of pedestrian traffic present in that photo is not anything that couldn't be comfortably accommodated with regular sidewalks.

I don't think there are any examples of streets that were made busier simply because cars were eliminated, but there are plenty of example of areas that have been killed off by cutting off vehicular traffic.

Sparks Street, Ottawa:
http://static.flickr.com/99/257215380_5a6dee88c1.jpg

[newflyer]

The real question is whether or not removing vehicles actually generates pedestrian traffic.

Stephen Ave in Calgary may be busy but it would probably be busy anyway if there were cars, or at least that pedestrian traffic would still be present in the downtown in some form and would give rise to the same sorts of businesses. The level of pedestrian traffic present in that photo is not anything that couldn't be comfortably accommodated with regular sidewalks.

I don't think there are any examples of streets that were made busier simply because cars were eliminated, but there are plenty of example of areas that have been killed off by cutting off vehicular traffic.

Sparks Street, Ottawa:
http://static.flickr.com/99/257215380_5a6dee88c1.jpg

Its not just a matter of cutting off traffic, Its also invloves a markeing campaign, in which public awareness is the focus. Once you can combine the outdoor patio businesses with the surounding people (both works and residents) you have a very good shot at success.

Calgary is an excellent expample of a city which took a rundown strip and made it vibrant again.

Regina has also had strong success with its Scarth Street Mall. Winnipeg's downtown corporate community is many times larger than Regina's, so discounting Winnipeg's chances because it "only" has a handfull of highrise office towers within a block of Albert Street just doesn't have merit.

If it has a good design and is marketed correctly to both users and also the business community as a whole this thing would take off I am pretty sure.

[Marc B.]

This sounds like an idea that WUI could get behind. I'd be interested in the results of the petition and to hear more from the other businesses and stakeholders. I'd also like to see a bit more of a detailed plan than simply a street without cars.

[rgalston]

It would be a great make-work project for landscape architects.

[bc2mb]

of course, it's just the gay community who wants to close the street...

http://winnipeg.craigslist.org/rnr/304989113.html

homosexual agenda! :rolleyes:

[Boris2k7]

Stephen Ave in Calgary may be busy but it would probably be busy anyway if there were cars, or at least that pedestrian traffic would still be present in the downtown in some form and would give rise to the same sorts of businesses. The level of pedestrian traffic present in that photo is not anything that couldn't be comfortably accommodated with regular sidewalks.


http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/7397/stephenavevo3.jpg
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/7837/thebayei2.jpg
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5741/dscn0052wegu0.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5296/dscn0044wegp1.jpg

Wait, what was that about your silly little sidewalks?

[newflyer]

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/7397/stephenavevo3.jpg
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/7837/thebayei2.jpg
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5741/dscn0052wegu0.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5296/dscn0044wegp1.jpg

Wait, what was that about your silly little sidewalks?


6th, 9th and 5th... all have next to nothing to offer.


8th is so popular because it attracts the kind of businesses which can capitalize on pedestrain traffic. Infact just look at what you have on 8th further down ... its nothing like the pedestrain mall. Its really crap.

[Boris2k7]

6th, 9th and 5th... all have next to nothing to offer.


8th is so popular because it attracts the kind of businesses which can capitalize on pedestrain traffic. Infact just look at what you have on 8th further down ... its nothing like the pedestrain mall. Its really crap.

I can't tell if you are speaking with me or against me here... but I am arguing in favour of the pedestrian mall... :???:

[newflyer]

I can't tell if you are speaking with me or against me here... but I am arguing in favour of the pedestrian mall... :???:

really??? ... me too. :cheers:

Just wanted to recognize that it takes more than just removing the cars.

It would take a marketing campaign to draw attention. Paper ads, radio ads .. promotional events .. what ever. Just get the word out.

Also attract some more pedestrain feiendly businesses .. such as padio restaurants or cafes.

[newflyer]

That pic of the McNally's on 8th should inspire the exchange district. Having more main stream retail would be a big boost.

[viperred88]

That pic of the McNally's on 8th should inspire the exchange district. Having more main stream retail would be a big boost.

I agree

[CCF]

newflyer asked for some pictures of Regina's pedestrian mall in downtown Regina.

http://www.joefafard.com/joe%20web%20page/publicworks/publicworkphotos/airbuf.jpg

http://library2.usask.ca/srsd/chronology/images/Pride-Committee_jpg.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/179/414341084_203e29bbf4.jpg?v=0

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/23/31965496_bf48d3e904.jpg?v=0

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/97/221696479_daf87506bd.jpg?v=0

http://l.yimg.com/www.flickr.com/images/spaceball.gif

http://l.yimg.com/www.flickr.com/images/spaceball.gif

http://www3.worldisround.com/photos/4/372/355.jpg

http://www3.worldisround.com/photos/4/291/416.jpg

http://www3.worldisround.com/photos/4/291/364.jpg

Wasn't able to find pictures where it's actually busy though...

[trueviking]

hmmm...is it successful?....i have never seen that.

[CCF]

hmmm...is it successful?....i have never seen that.

Actually it's kind of odd, because it's quite successful.

I believe there is only one vacant building open for rent. It has quite an array of uses; restaurants, a gallery, the globe theatre, salons, clothing shops, condos, a newspaper, comic book store, etc. It get really busy during the summer.

[BrannyMuffin]

Actually it's kind of odd, because it's quite successful.

I believe there is only one vacant building open for rent. It has quite an array of uses; restaurants, a gallery, the globe theatre, salons, clothing shops, condos, a newspaper, comic book store, etc. It get really busy during the summer.

Then there's the summer stage there, too. There's nothing like it in summer. Those pictures look quite old...I've seen great pictures online but can't seem to find any right now???

[newflyer]

hmmm...is it successful?....i have never seen that.

It is successful ... especially in summer, but various attempts to make it attractive in the winter as well.

They used to put a public skating rink between the two MacCallum towers (twin towers)... I haven't been back in winter for years, but it was an interesting concept. A tiny reflection of Rockefeller Centre in NYC.

[CCF]

It is successful ... especially in summer, but various attempts to make it attractive in the winter as well.

They used to put a public skating rink between the two MacCallum towers (twin towers)... I haven't been back in winter for years, but it was an interesting concept. A tiny reflection of Rockefeller Centre in NYC.

I'd like to see them put a public skating rink in again in downtown. But, I'll refrain from turning this into a Regina thread. Sorry Winnipeg!

[ReginaGuy]

here are some newer pics of Regina's Scarth Street


http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/1492/1060684s6pa.jpg

this one shows that people still use it in cold weather (almost as bad as Winnipeg winters), so you guys should be able to pull it off
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/1821/83561840ec7cfcd366odi1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This one looks old
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4185/airbufkx3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This is actually south of the pedestrian-only portion of Scarth street, but the city often extends the pedestrian mall by closing this street off to vehicles for social events, farmer's market, etc.. The actual perminent pedestrian mall starts at the base of the "slanty" glass towers
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/3249/22545171510f65f06c8oqo5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Lee_Haber8]

here are some newer pics of Regina's Scarth Street


http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/1492/1060684s6pa.jpg

this one shows that people still use it in cold weather (almost as bad as Winnipeg winters), so you guys should be able to pull it off
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/1821/83561840ec7cfcd366odi1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This one looks old
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4185/airbufkx3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This is actually south of the pedestrian-only portion of Scarth street, but the city often extends the pedestrian mall by closing this street off to vehicles for social events, farmer's market, etc.. The actual perminent pedestrian mall starts at the base of the "slanty" glass towers
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/3249/22545171510f65f06c8oqo5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Wow, that's pretty impressive. You know things are bad when Regina and Saskatcewan are kicking your ass!

[CCF]

Wow, that's pretty impressive. You know things are bad when Regina and Saskatcewan are kicking your ass!

You also know things are bad when people can't spell.

[newflyer]

If Albert Street can be converted into something like this :

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/7778/scarthdg0.jpg


Winnipeg will have a pedestrain mall to be very proud of.

I love all the patios, plants and beautified street/landscaping. :tup:

[newflyer]

Imagine if Can West Global Place, and hense all of P&M opened up to our pedestrain mall. Giving thousands of workers access to outdoor patios and retail.


Might look something like this:

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/8386/scarth2zx6.jpg

[Lee_Haber8]

You also know things are bad when people can't spell.

Wow, I forgot an 'h'. Saskatchewan, are you happy now?

[spiritedenergy]

You also know things are bad when people can't spell.

maybe he's just jelous...:rolleyes:

[1ajs]

i think the ped street should be graham.......... but sinceits the bus coridor that will never happen

[newflyer]

i think the ped street should be graham.......... but sinceits the bus coridor that will never happen

I don't think Graham would be very good as a pedestrain mall There are too many large buildings on it. The successful pedestrian malls I have been on were mostly made up of smaller buildings which could easily be used for retail or cafes.

I think Graham is really starting tp become successful as a transit corridore. With the new developments lining the street... it has really moved up in attractiveness. Once the Hydro Building opens it will further mark the advancement of this narror street. In many ways it is becoming a very pedestrain friendly street with wide sidewalks... all that needs to happen to complete this street into something great is to fill in the empty lots. Although condiering the landvalues and the locations it will have to wait for demand for highrises creates a viable building.

[biguc]

Albert Street doesn't need to become a pedestrian street--cars rarely use it anyway. rgalston is right, it's a great example of a balanced city street. If you want to make it more neato for pedestrians, lose the curbs and replace them with bollards.

[trueviking]

that'll be a magnet to draw new pedestrian activity and new retail to the area....bollards.

the sidewalk on that street is already 30' wide...it is perfect for pedestrians as is, but that is not the point....to draw attention to the area so it gets into the conciousness of joe q. white ridge, something unique has to be implemented...like waterfront drive did for the east exchange.

this idea is more about marketing the resource that is the exchange district....it doesnt exactly bustle with these pedestrians and bikes that you guys say it is perfect for.

it is sad that the exchange needs gimmicks like this, but it does.

[newflyer]

that'll be a magnet to draw new pedestrian activity and new retail to the area....bollards.

the sidewalk on that street is already 30' wide...it is perfect for pedestrians as is, but that is not the point....to draw attention to the area so it gets into the conciousness of joe q. white ridge, something unique has to be implemented...like waterfront drive did for the east exchange.

this idea is more about marketing the resource that is the exchange district....it doesnt exactly bustle with these pedestrians and bikes that you guys say it is perfect for.

it is sad that the exchange needs gimmicks like this, but it does.

I don't see pedestrain malls as gimmicks... if you lived in a city with a successful one you would see the huge difference between it and a lightly traveled roadway. It opens up to street vendors and large patios. It gives a city a more cosmopolitain feel... a street full of activeity... with a dense retail strip... bars and restaurants and cafe's. It would also help increase the demand to revitalize the exchange district. Currently there is very little main stream retail in the exchange, as its not seen as a viable location. Add a few hundred workers to the area... and enhance the image of this still relatively unknown area, but many Winnipegers. They know it exists, they just avoid it as an unknown area.

[biguc]

that'll be a magnet to draw new pedestrian activity and new retail to the area....bollards.

the sidewalk on that street is already 30' wide...it is perfect for pedestrians as is, but that is not the point....to draw attention to the area so it gets into the conciousness of joe q. white ridge, something unique has to be implemented...like waterfront drive did for the east exchange.

this idea is more about marketing the resource that is the exchange district....it doesnt exactly bustle with these pedestrians and bikes that you guys say it is perfect for.

it is sad that the exchange needs gimmicks like this, but it does.

Bollards: they have shit like that in Europe. As far as gimmicks go, it's a lot less lame than a pedestrian mall--and a lot more urbanly smart. Besides, you can have either a one block pedestrian mall, which is pointless, or you can wizard away the cars from the Canwest parkade. Good luck with that.

But whatever, forget bollards, I'd do nothing. You say something unique needs to be implemented; why? The west exchange is already unique. People already know that. So fuck Joe Q White Ridge: downtown doesn't need Applebees and TJ Maxx, or wherever those idiots shop. Look at the progress in the neighourhood over the last few years. It doesn't need a grand gesture--especially on an already successful retail strip.

And empirically speaking, aren't you a little premature in declaring Waterfront Drive an unqualified boon to the East Exchange?

[trueviking]

Bollards: they have shit like that in Europe. As far as gimmicks go, it's a lot less lame than a pedestrian mall--and a lot more urbanly smart. Besides, you can have either a one block pedestrian mall, which is pointless, or you can wizard away the cars from the Canwest parkade. Good luck with that.

But whatever, forget bollards, I'd do nothing. You say something unique needs to be implemented; why? The west exchange is already unique. People already know that. So fuck Joe Q White Ridge: downtown doesn't need Applebees and TJ Maxx, or wherever those idiots shop. Look at the progress in the neighourhood over the last few years. It doesn't need a grand gesture--especially on an already successful retail strip.

And empirically speaking, aren't you a little premature in declaring Waterfront Drive an unqualified boon to the East Exchange?

you consider that a successful retail strip?.....been anywhere else lately?

the exchange district is realizing 5% of its potential...maybe less.....what, like 500 people live there?......and fewer shop there....we've got a puny art store, a handful of antique shops and a few clothing stores?.....its a regular robson.

and yes, i consider 200 new residential units anywhere in winnipeg's downtown a boon.

[The Diva]

Pedestrian Malls are hit and miss. Is Graham Avenue a success? A role model?
Sparks Street in Ottawa is not doing very well either; but Byward Market is, and vehicles are allowed there. Let's focus on filling the buildings and beautification (for starters, Mondragons needs to clean the grafitti off its building; nothing says stay away more than nasty grafitti all over your otherwise charming heritage building).

[biguc]

you consider that a successful retail strip?.....been anywhere else lately?

the exchange district is realizing 5% of its potential...maybe less.....what, like 500 people live there?......and fewer shop there....we've got a puny art store, a handful of antique shops and a few clothing stores?.....its a regular robson.

and yes, i consider 200 new residential units anywhere in winnipeg's downtown a boon.

Nowhere in the exchange will ever look like Robson Street. Robson is a retail strip first; putting retail in warehouses will never achieve the same retail intensity. As far as these things go, then, Albert is a success.

I'm not disputing that the residential units are a boon. But we've yet to see any spillover benefit to the rest of the east exchange.


EDIT: the only thing redemptive about Mondragon is that they haven't cleaned the graf off their building. Smelly hippies suck. Graffiti is cool and typically ubiquitous in healthy, diverse urban settings. See Montreal, New York, or hell, Paris and London.

[Lee_Haber8]

Nowhere in the exchange will ever look like Robson Street. Robson is a retail strip first; putting retail in warehouses will never achieve the same retail intensity. As far as these things go, then, Albert is a success.

I'm not disputing that the residential units are a boon. But we've yet to see any spillover benefit to the rest of the east exchange.


EDIT: the only thing redemptive about Mondragon is that they haven't cleaned the graf off their building. Smelly hippies suck. Graffiti is cool and typically ubiquitous in healthy, diverse urban settings. See Montreal, New York, or hell, Paris and London.

You can't call any street in downtown Winnipeg a success. You'd be hard pressed to name a street in the whole city that is truly alive with pedestrian activity - Corydon and Osborne aren't that great even though they are busiest ones in the city.

Robson is probably the busiest street I have been on so I agree with you that it is unrealistic that Albert St will ever match it. It could still become very busy - just not Robson-busy with a lot of retail and residential added nearby. I don't see why a lot of people don't like this idea. I think this is a great idea, though I don't see it as a high priority right now

[biguc]

I think we're talking past each other when we use 'success'. As far as crowds of people go, you might be right. Albert street, though, has several successful businesses along it. The stretch discussed in the article, in particular, is doing fairly well is this respect.

Since you mention crowds of people, though, I don't really think Albert Street is long enough to generate crowds of pedestrians. Especially not a one block stretch.

[The Diva]

^^Spilling over into a rejuvinated Market Square, yes.

Grafitti does not make the cities you listed as "cool". Given the sheer size and number of buildings in those cities, it is not possible for them to be grafitti-free; snot-nose little punks suck...those who pretend they are something they are not--hmmm, maybe that is why you were beaten up along Osborne because of your attitude, Biguc?

[bc2mb]

^ uh, i can see we have a new ***hole on the forum?

[bc2mb]

graffiti is a part of urban life... you'd be an idiot to think you can stop it.

and in mondragon's case, it adds character to the building. if the owners wanted it gone, they would deal with it... this has been debated before.

might as well move out to melita if you need to shield your eyes from graffiti.

[ReginaGuy]

graffiti is a part of urban life... you'd be an idiot to think you can stop it.

and in mondragon's case, it adds character to the building. if the owners wanted it gone, they would deal with it... this has been debated before.

might as well move out to melita if you need to shield your eyes from graffiti.

You realise that removing grafitti costs quite a bit of money, right?

[biguc]

^^Spilling over into a rejuvinated Market Square, yes.

Grafitti does not make the cities you listed as "cool". Given the sheer size and number of buildings in those cities, it is not possible for them to be grafitti-free; snot-nose little punks suck...those who pretend they are something they are not--hmmm, maybe that is why you were beaten up along Osborne because of your attitude, Biguc?

welcome back WinnipegPatriot. Enjoy getting banned again.

[The Diva]

^^Whatever that means

[1ajs]

^^Whatever that means

some one who got band thats on skyscrapercity.com forums now that does not get along with biguc

[The Diva]

So anyone who disagrees with him is called "Winnipegpatriot"? Kind of like when a girl sleeps around she's called a slut? I see...okaaay...I think we need a shrink here...one who is up for a challenge-LOL

Anyhoo, I would not be upset if Albert was transformed into a pedestrian only area, but I see no real purpose. Again, Centreventure is planning on (hopefully soon) transforming Market Square, and that is sufficient for the masses.

[biguc]

Um, no. You actually are WinnipegPatriot. And Phoenix. And kwhy. and Stealth. And so on.

You've been banned from this site at least half a dozen times. Find a new hobby, dude.

And for the record, you're the one who flipped his wig over an aesthetic disagreement--like always. Your characteristic inability to maintain any sense of decorum is a dead giveaway. In any case, I'm not going to justify myself to a grown man who goes on a message board and acts like a child.

[1ajs]

biguc who gives a rats ass if it realy is wp for all ya know it could be someone els in witch case what a way to welcome a new forumer.......

[newflyer]

I think we're talking past each other when we use 'success'. As far as crowds of people go, you might be right. Albert street, though, has several successful businesses along it. The stretch discussed in the article, in particular, is doing fairly well is this respect.

Since you mention crowds of people, though, I don't really think Albert Street is long enough to generate crowds of pedestrians. Especially not a one block stretch.

The prime reason that Albert Street may be a success, is its realation to P&M. If a few hundred have ther lunch and perhaps a few drinks after work, it may create enough demand to attract further retail and restaurants into the area. As it is now .. this isn't what I would consider an modest attraction to the white collar folk.

This may become irrelivent if Waterfront Drive turns into a retail strip of this nature. I don't think downtown Winnipeg could support more than one of these at this point. Perhaps after the first is established a second could begin, but that is getting way ahead of where I want to focus, which is we need something to keep people downtown after work.

[The Diva]

It all comes down to critical mass. There are still many under-utilized spaces in the Exchange, and they need to be converted to residential. I get pissed off everytime I walk or drive by the Ryan Block. Such prime location wasted, with no hint of redevelopment.

[trueviking]

^amen.

[rgalston]

Success on this forum is measured by the number of flashy renderings and impressive figures ($30-M...; 20,000 square feet... 200 units... three blocks...), regardless of how adverse or tacky the outcome is. Yes, the day-to-day street life on Albert Street pales in comparison to those of great cities, but can you think of any better local examples downtown?

[The Diva]

It is a fine area indeed, but there is much room for improvement. I hope to see some plans for a rejuvinated Market square soon. The city also needs to enforce its derilect buildings bylaw; just because the Reiss Family covered the windows on the Ryan Block and painted the boards red, they technically "show" that they are maintaining the structure; this is stupid. The city needs to force them to either develop it or the city should seize it; prior, being Mr. Nice City by allowing these buildings to rot has gotten the city nowhere, so let's use the iron fist, and force building owners to develop or get outta here!

[drew]

^ I totally agree. The city needs to start to stand up to building owners who are simply sitting on properties and not developing them.

There should be a new by-law that prohibits any new surface lots in the downtown core, and that also gives all new and current property owners 12 months to begin developing their properties/buildings or forfet their ownership of said property to the city for fair market value.

[1ajs]

^ I totally agree. The city needs to start to stand up to building owners who are simply sitting on properties and not developing them.

There should be a new by-law that prohibits any new surface lots in the downtown core, and that also gives all new and current property owners 12 months to begin developing their properties/buildings or forfeit their ownership of said property to the city for fair market value.

your suggestion is way to vague

[drew]

^ It's only an idea. I am not trying to submit it to city hall...

[1ajs]

^ It's only an idea. I am not trying to submit it to city hall...

hint hint.......

[jimj_wpg]

Perhaps after the first is established a second could begin, but that is getting way ahead of where I want to focus, which is we need something to keep people downtown after work.

And what may that be? Lower taxes? :lmao:

[The Diva]

Out of all the (and I do not know specific numbers as of now) Doctors, Professors, support staff at the U of W, and Health Sciences Centre, how many live downtown? These professionals are the ones we want downtown because they have the $$$ to attract the higher end stores, etc. Whenever I think of our downtown population, I think of lower end apartment buildings, and a few lofts scattered throughout, and not a whole lotta professionals. I am sure many live in Wolseley.

[newflyer]

And what may that be? Lower taxes? :lmao:

I'm taking about vibrant centres of activity ... try to keep up. :koko:

[newflyer]

^ I totally agree. The city needs to start to stand up to building owners who are simply sitting on properties and not developing them.

There should be a new by-law that prohibits any new surface lots in the downtown core, and that also gives all new and current property owners 12 months to begin developing their properties/buildings or forfet their ownership of said property to the city for fair market value.

Go ahead and tell Hartly Richardson to develope his blocks and blocks of property downtown .. :koko:


Any property owner worth anything willl tell you he will develope his property when there is demand. This is basic economics ... demand dictates supply. Not the other way around... except when it involves government financing.

You want to have less empty buildings .. less surface lots??

Here is the formula ... pay close attention.

Case 1) Improve the economic factors ...
.......... companies have increased revenue .. and increased profits .. companies want to capitialize on opportunity and seek to expand operations ... companies want in meet the new demand by expanding.. in order to expand, companies need more staff.. in order to employ more staff they need more space... companies goto the real estate market for that additional space. If there is not space which meets there requirements the company must deside if it wants to develope new space (development)
one more development = one less under-used lot.

Case 2) Improve the economic factors ..
.............. there is an increase demand of labour (ie: people willing to work for those who find economics too cold) .. increased demand of labour drives up the level of commericial activity (adds more demand for retail) .. more demands further increases the demand for more labour ... once the demand of labour exceeds supply of labour the price of labour increases (wages go up). As more people are earning a better wage they will be in a position to live in better housing. This will increase the demand for housing. Increased demand for housing will attract businesses who recognize this demand. If the demand is high enough there will be development of new housing.
one more development = one less under-used lot.

While this is the extremely.. very simplified version of how development occurs in the real world .. it does the reflect reality of economics.

Its not forcing investors at gun point .. it is drawing out the money through improving the economic conditions which allows for a profitable investment. The sooner you guys realize this, the less fustrated you'll be when you walk past the vast sea of surface lots and under-used buildings... known as downtown.

Of course I expect some of you to justify the lack of economic progress .. by saying its good for society. :rolleyes:

Socialism is funny.
High taxes and government interferance kills off private investment .. but good for the people?? :shrug: Maybe .. if surface lots are what is meant by good for the people.

Winnipeg must be very good for the people .. as it doens't interest many investors.

[The Diva]

OK, but the current situation is not yielding anything. I'm sorry, but if you choose to be the owner of a heritage building in a designated district, you should not be permitted to allow it to deteriorate.

The housing market in this city is strong enough, and of course Waterfront's success is testimony, that Reiss can develop lofts in the Ryan Building and they would sell; it is the family's ignorance and perhaps desire to tear the Ryan Block down for a parking lot that prevents this. The same can be said of other buildings. They are either holding out to suck as much money as they can from potential buyers of their buildings/land, or are just f*cken assholes who do not care about this city and its heritage buildings.

Look around this forum, and in other cities where there is little demand for office space, empty buildings are being converted to residential. There is no reason why this should not happen here; building owners here are pretty stupid and ignorant. Greentree cannot find tenants to fill the Union Bank Building...Okay, so it will sit idle. Um, well, our rental vacancy rate for apartments is so low that, like the Lindsay Building, it would fill fast. Even Detroit is converting so many vacant buildings into residential because it does not need office space.

With a 25 year exemption from rent control, the many vacant buildings we have can be converted. I think there is something that exists only here...some strange ignorance or refusal to follow what other cities are doing. Housing market is strong, vacancy rate is low, population growth = economic factors conducive to filling empty buildings and surface lots. With about 2,000 well-paid Hydro employees coming downtown, I have faith that some would want to relocate nearby, but wait, there is nowhere to move to.

I do not buy your economics theory newflyer.

[trueviking]

Yes, the day-to-day street life on Albert Street pales in comparison to those of great cities, but can you think of any better local examples downtown?

it pales in comparison to average cities....edmonton, calgary, ottawa, quebec, victoria and from the looks of it even regina have urban retail strips that make albert look like a back lane.

graham, broadway, portage and osborne have more street life, but just because it has minimal success doesnt mean it can be considered successful or that we should not search for ways to actually meet its potential.

a third line centre man on a tier four hockey team can hardly say there is nothing to strive for....

[trueviking]

buildings that have been designated as 'heritage structures' should have an increasing tax levy every year as they sit empty and if someone buys one and renovates it they should recieve a tax break in the same sliding scale.

this might be tough with normal buildings, but a plan like that could be implemented for historically listed buildings.

[DizzyEdge]

buildings that have been designated as 'heritage structures' should have an increasing tax levy every year as they sit empty and if someone buys one and renovates it they should recieve a tax break in the same sliding scale.

this might be tough with normal buildings, but a plan like that could be implemented for historically listed buildings.

What has been done with a building or two in Calgary is the city has agreed to freeze taxes (for example for 15 years), if someone renovates, so they can enjoy the increased revenue from the renovated building for 15 years at the tax rating the less valuable dilapidated version was assessed at.

[IntotheWest]

Closing that street to traffic would be great! Then, you can grab your burger at Albert Street Burgers, and cross the street to go sit down without looking for cars :-)

Seriously, I think this a good idea - at least somewhere in the Exchange - and Albert street actually makes great sense being so close to Portage and Main.

[The Diva]

What has been done with a building or two in Calgary is the city has agreed to freeze taxes (for example for 15 years), if someone renovates, so they can enjoy the increased revenue from the renovated building for 15 years at the tax rating the less valuable dilapidated version was assessed at.


Well, the city is going to create anytime now incentives, as posted a couple of pages back, to spur residential activity; if that doe snot work, we might as well close up shop and abandon this city because I am affraid the people we have left in this city (the ones who have NOT moved to Alberta and BC) are not smart enough to realize that what works in Detroit can work here. I am hopeful that Centreventure (the city's downtown redevelopment agency) has a new President who (gasp) has the vision and knowledge of what downtown needs. For instance, we are not in a situation (like Vancouver--but that is another story) where we need office space, but potential residents of downtown do complain about parking (esp. safe parking) so Centreventure is going to have a few parkades built at strategic points downtown; I have travelled across the states and have seen numerous modern, funky parking garages with glass cladding, shrubs, etc atop, retail on the main level...you better believe I will take this over a surface lot adorned with weeds.

[drew]

The housing market in this city is strong enough, and of course Waterfront's success is testimony, that Reiss can develop lofts in the Ryan Building and they would sell; it is the family's ignorance and perhaps desire to tear the Ryan Block down for a parking lot that prevents this. The same can be said of other buildings. They are either holding out to suck as much money as they can from potential buyers of their buildings/land, or are just f*cken assholes who do not care about this city and its heritage buildings.


^ well said.

I understand Newflyer's economics argument - but here in Winnipeg, you cannot discount the delinquent owner factor. I think it is a very safe assumption that many of the blocks in the exchange/downtown have been held tight by your typical "looking for a deal" Winnipeggers, who bought these properties for next to nothing years ago, and won't relinquish them till they get some outrageous offer that's never coming.

[The Diva]

Yes. For instance, I met a gentleman about a year ago who owns 112 Market Avenue:
http://www.virtual.heritagewinnipeg.com/jpgs/window/nowThen/077-now.jpg

I asked him about converting the building to residential, and his response was "ugh, no" I asked why. He really did not have a reason, but this guy is incredibly cheap, so I assumed that was why. I talked to him a couple of months ago, and he actually warmed up to the idea. I think he is typical of building owners who just do not care about the area. We need people with vision to buy and renovate these buildings. This is where the city needs to come in.

[DizzyEdge]

Yes. For instance, I met a gentleman about a year ago who owns 112 Market Avenue:
http://www.virtual.heritagewinnipeg.com/jpgs/window/nowThen/077-now.jpg

I asked him about converting the building to residential, and his response was "ugh, no" I asked why. He really did not have a reason, but this guy is incredibly cheap, so I assumed that was why. I talked to him a couple of months ago, and he actually warmed up to the idea. I think he is typical of building owners who just do not care about the area. We need people with vision to buy and renovate these buildings. This is where the city needs to come in.

That would be a cool residential building.

[newflyer]

With a 25 year exemption from rent control, the many vacant buildings we have can be converted. I think there is something that exists only here...some strange ignorance or refusal to follow what other cities are doing. Housing market is strong, vacancy rate is low, population growth = economic factors conducive to filling empty buildings and surface lots. With about 2,000 well-paid Hydro employees coming downtown, I have faith that some would want to relocate nearby, but wait, there is nowhere to move to.

I do not buy your economics theory newflyer.

You say you don't buy my "theory", which is really economic fact, but with that aside you suggest factors such as population, restrictive rent control, population growth, and the relocation of MB hydro are all factors to be considered.

All these are economic factors .. which do/has and will impact the realestate market. It really all comes down to supply vs demand .. and the return of investment in the Winnipeg market verus other forms of investment. Most investors have held properties waiting for the economic factors to improve.

As we are seeing business taxes slowly decline, as well as suggestions of cutung the capital tax, Manitiba is still among the most taxes places on the continient. To be blunt many investment dollars are bypassing Manitiba or leaving Manitoba, for greener pastures, as we aren't very investment friendly, nor is there much demand for downtown development. You can tell yourself it can't be this all you wish, but the reality definatly would agree with me.

If investors would make a good return on investment by filling demands for new buildings they would be lining up. I don't think I've ever met a businessman who would snub a profitable opportunity.

The laws of economics don't bypass Winnipeg .. its really very alive and well. If we want better than things have to change. Pushing for government to make Manitoba a "have province" is probibly the biggest thing you could do to make downtown a better place. As the MB Chamber is pushing.

-------------------------------------------

The Manitoba Chamber of Commerce holds its 76th annual meeting this weekend in Winnipeg.
Chamber president Graham Starmer says they'll be sticking to their theme of making Manitoba a "HAVE" province..
Starmer also told the Winnipeg Business report on CJOB Tuesday night they plan to make an announcement Friday about the Museum of Human Rights. He says they'll be attempting to form a partnership with other Chambers and businesses around the province with the aim of raising funds towards the construction of the facility..

Starmer adds the keynote speakers at the Annual Conference are from Chicago, Toronto and Atlantic Canada..

CJOB's Robert Holland reporting


------------------------------------------------------------

[viperred88]

NOw if the underground mall would close down then u would see positive effects to this albert st. plan.

[The Diva]

Quebec is burdened with high taxes, and a not-so-hot economy. Have you seen the projects being developed there (Montreal)? The country of Quebec--sorry, the province of Quebec...he he...receives many Immigrants of course. So, at the end of the day, it is not always a matter of taxes. The fact of the matter is that we are growing, and the number of people wanting an urban lifestyle here is on the rise, but (again) when you have no new apartments being built downtown, it makes it challenging to increase the population of downtown. We have a sizeable workforce downtown, and in order to brng them downtown to live, the housing needs to be built.

If investors would make a good return on investment by filling demands for new buildings they would be lining up. I don't think I've ever met a businessman who would snub a profitable opportunity.

If you are talking office space, I agree. I still say though that the market downtown is ripe for increased residential development. I think the property owners we have are disgustingly cheap, and are waiting for Centreventure to buy their land/buildings, or they are asking too much (like that idiot who owns the former McDonalds across from CBC on Portage). Another building that has sat vacant for so long is a charming little building on Fort:

http://www.jjb.com/Client/JJB/JJBNA%20Web%20Listing%20db.nsf/5b1d91a237abc91f852570d800775fbc/0366cedc7509e0da852571f700705ae5/Picture/0.142!OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=jpg

It has been on the market for a reeeealy long time; convert this into a few apartments. That would involve vision. With a apartment vacancy rate as low as ours, come on, there is your supply and demand. The demand IS present, but no freakin' supply.

It is too easy to blame "economics" as you repeatedly preach NewFlyer; I do agree our tax environment is not good; so are many other jurisdictions. Small business is important; well, we do have the lowest small business tax in the country. Has that really helped?

[Lee_Haber8]

What's holding Winnipeg back is not just the underlying conditions, but image as well. Being such a miserable place for so long (it still is, but less so), Winnipeg is the 'laughing stock' of the country. Someone asked me where I was from and I said Winnipeg. He then replied 'I would've said cool, but it's Winnipeg'
Anybody who knows people from other parts of the country know that is very common. Even though stories about the city are often exaggerated, there are mostly based on a grain of truth; Winnipeg is a poor city with a dead downtown and boring, ugly suburbs.

How do you reverse the city's image? You have to 'flip the table' and completely change the things that cause the negative image. How do you solve mediocrity - build a spectacular museum at the Forks. Dead Downtown - Get tens of thousands of people living there, kickstarting with tax incentives. Ugliness - Give city planners power and listen to them! Poverty - Improve the economy by getting of regressive taxes. Poor transportation - Build a state of the art rapid transit system. Boring place to live - Greenbelt to stop sprawl and again good city planning.

Now that I think about it, the way you reverse image is you reverse the underlying problems. The only way Winnipeg will be seen as dynamic, beautiful , prosperous city is if it institutes the necessary (and likely unpopular) reforms that will make it one.

[The Diva]

My brother in law, his wife and new baby are moving here from Halifax, and the first question out of the mouths of many people was "why"? He is a Dentist, and he is coming here to go to school to become a periodontist. Some of their initial reactions to touring the city included questioning the decrepit neighborhoods around the HSC (where he will be attending his classes). Halifax, with a smaller population, and not the best economy, has a downtown that is much hipper and a lot more attractive than our hideous downtown. Then again, most cities across this country do not have numerous Aboriginals staggering around downtown scaring people away (not me of course). Our civic leaders over the decades have allowed our downtown and its surrounding areas (Spence, Point Douglas, etc) to become nasty ghettos. As soon as Aboriginals strted coming to our city from reserves about 30 years ago, affordable housing should have been built throughout the city for them; rather, they took what they could get, and we know what the result was. Now, we are desperately trying to play catch up, and creating more opportunites for urban Aboriginals. The Neeginan expansion sounds wonderful. Apparently, there will be some sort of office building built at the north west corner of Main, and designs of this are underway. Once Main Street is filled, and Portage Avenue is rejuvinated, so many things will change.

When I was in Halifax a year ago, walking around downtown, I felt like I did not want to return to Winnipeg because of how it pales in comparison. Throughout downtown Halifax, I found awesome little pubs, and restaurants, etc.

Many parts of the North End need to be razed, and the people relocated.

[drew]

Halifax is beautiful, and the downtown is really cool - but they also have their own troubles with homeless people and begging in their downtown.

When I was there about 6 years ago, the amount of homeless people in the downtown there really surprised me.

[1ajs]

My brother in law, his wife and new baby are moving here from Halifax, and the first question out of the mouths of many people was "why"? He is a Dentist, and he is coming here to go to school to become a periodontist. Some of their initial reactions to touring the city included questioning the decrepit neighborhoods around the HSC (where he will be attending his classes). Halifax, with a smaller population, and not the best economy, has a downtown that is much hipper and a lot more attractive than our hideous downtown. Then again, most cities across this country do not have numerous Aboriginals staggering around downtown scaring people away (not me of course). Our civic leaders over the decades have allowed our downtown and its surrounding areas (Spence, Point Douglas, etc) to become nasty ghettos. As soon as Aboriginals strted coming to our city from reserves about 30 years ago, affordable housing should have been built throughout the city for them; rather, they took what they could get, and we know what the result was. Now, we are desperately trying to play catch up, and creating more opportunites for urban Aboriginals. The Neeginan expansion sounds wonderful. Apparently, there will be some sort of office building built at the north west corner of Main, and designs of this are underway. Once Main Street is filled, and Portage Avenue is rejuvinated, so many things will change.

When I was in Halifax a year ago, walking around downtown, I felt like I did not want to return to Winnipeg because of how it pales in comparison. Throughout downtown Halifax, I found awesome little pubs, and restaurants, etc.

Many parts of the North End need to be razed, and the people relocated.

raze only what is to far gone to fix aka fucked......

whats still good why not get more school programs going like what rb russle is doing with its building construction and get the students out in the real world with hands on experiance get the schools working together on projects and bring people in from the feild to teach the students........ instead of just having them sit in a school and make things that make you feel good but don't realy acomplish anything inless your going to make furnature.... but then you can get thoughs students making custom wood working for people at cost....
ect??

has sujested that to some teachers at techvoc but they said the unions would protest


witch point douglas you talking about the civic ward or the one i call home?
(when i talk pointdouglas i talk the area from redwood to the museam of man and nature, and main st to the red....)

[DizzyEdge]

Anyone have any pics of what the 'north end' looks like, as far as razing, assuming any of these buildings were once jewels, I've seen amazing pics of burnt out husks in detroit restored to unbelievable homes.

[1ajs]

Anyone have any pics of what the 'north end' looks like, as far as razing, assuming any of these buildings were once jewels, I've seen amazing pics of burnt out husks in detroit restored to unbelievable homes.

rgalston has some..

the north end is a vast area of the city it has every thing from gehto to well kepted homes

manitoba ave for instance (bad rep) has blocks and blocks of slum lords with little pockets of owners who take pride in their homes that have hung on... you find that all over the north end..

the bigest blight in the north end is the slum loards manitoba housing is also part of the problem.........

heres a set with some of the worst homes in the north end... also one nice 1960's home also in the north end but way off in gardencity per say...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/odessa_who_rox/sets/72157600063757843/

witch reminds me bike ride through winnipeg....... hmm slurpees hmm so home sick :(

[rgalston]

Many parts of the North End need to be razed, and the people relocated.

Hey Maureen O' Hara, here's a photo of a part of the North End that needed to be razed 45 years ago. Thousands or residents and dozens of businesses were displaced, and it rapidly developed into the city's most dangerous ghetto.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/73/221703603_fdae0c546e_o.jpg

It's at the corner of King Street N. and Dufferin Avenue. Been there lately?

[1ajs]

Hey Maureen O' Hara, here's a photo of a part of the North End that needed to be razed 45 years ago. Thousands or residents and dozens of businesses were displaced, and it rapidly developed into the city's most dangerous slum.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/73/221703603_fdae0c546e_o.jpg

It's at the corner of King Street N. and Dufferin Avenue. Been there lately?

theres a thing on that project in winnipeg modern

would be nice to raze that mess and build student housing......