[Frisco_Zig]

I have a bad feeling about this line.

650 million should get you more than a lightrail that is as slow as the bus it is replacing and which serves a relatively low density area

Add another 1.5 billion for the central subway and this could be one of the biggest boondoggles in the history of transit planning

Let hope they can improve the performace a lot and push through some big land use changes to maximize this investment

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/04/02/BAG04OVSE91.DTL



SAN FRANCISCO
3rd St. rail line goes full-time on Saturday
Rachel Gordon, Chronicle Staff Writer

Monday, April 2, 2007


The San Francisco Municipal Railway will remove the training wheels from the new Third Street streetcar line when it begins full service Saturday, and only then will officials know whether their promise of improved transit service for the city's southeastern neighborhoods will be fulfilled.

One of the biggest questions is whether the $648 million rail project will provide a faster ride than the workhorse 15-Third bus line that has served the corridor for 67 years and will be retired when the streetcar takes over.

If a Chronicle reporter's ride two weekends ago was any indication, there's a lot of work to do. It took one hour to get from the end of the line in the Visitacion Valley neighborhood near the Daly City border to Fourth and King streets near the Giants ballpark in San Francisco's South of Market neighborhood. That's double the time that Muni hopes to achieve with the new line.

But officials are quick to point out that the new streetcar line, officially known as the T-Third, is in the test phase and that the slower running times were anticipated during the period. Still under way, they say, is training for the operators learning the new stretch of track, tweaking of the new high-tech signals and testing the electrical system to make sure it can handle the load without shutting down.

"We're still in testing mode and knocking out the kinks, getting through the myriad of things that could go wrong,'' said San Francisco Municipal Transportation Agency chief Nathaniel Ford.

Muni began weekend testing of the new streetcar line in January as part of a soft-launch, temporarily allowing passengers to ride for free. On Saturday, the 5.1-mile T-Third will join the rest of the Metro light-rail system full-time, and within a decade is expected to carry 71,000 riders per day.

Ford said the travel-time goals are: 23 minutes between Visitacion Valley and the ballpark, and 47 minutes between Visitacion Valley and the Castro Station. During the trial period, the run times have averaged 27 minutes and 54 minutes, respectively, Ford said.

During the weekend tests, passengers have been allowed to ride for free and ridership has been light -- two factors that speed boarding -- and traffic hasn't been as heavy as it would be on weekdays, meaning that the trains don't have to contend with as much time-consuming congestion.

On the other hand, Ford said the trains deliberately have been running at a slower-than-optimal speed, partly as a precaution because people driving cars in the area still are getting used to the fact that trains are running down the middle of Third Street and new traffic rules are in place.

Ford predicted success come opening day.

"It took decades to get to this point,'' said Ford, who inherited the project when he took the top post at Muni 14 months ago. "We're very proud of getting to this milestone.''

Janet Tyler, a 24-year-old receptionist who recently moved back into her mother's Bayview district home and works downtown, now rides the 15-Third -- a trip she said now usually takes her about 45 minutes -- and hopes the change will make her commute swifter and smoother.

"What I heard from friends is that the train is slow,'' Tyler said Thursday morning as she waited for the bus on Third Street. "But Muni says it will get better. I hope they're right. People out here have waited a long time for this.''

Completion of the project was more than a year behind schedule and ran more than $150 million over the original cost estimate. It has been in the works for more than 20 years -- construction began in 2002 -- and represents more than just another capital project.

It also represents a real and symbolic link between neighborhoods in the city's economically struggling and largely black and Asian southeastern neighborhoods with the political and financial strongholds downtown. The project even has a slogan: "Connecting people. Connecting communities.''

Mayor Gavin Newsom has a lot riding on the project. Newsom, running for re-election in the fall, has made improving the city's troubled transit system a top priority and the T-Third line can be used to showcase an accomplishment or be held up by critics as a failure.

The mayor said last week he is confident that the new light rail line won't disappoint.

"No one expects it to be perfect from day one; people have to be a little patient,'' he said. "But there will be better service, better on-time performance, more convenience. Otherwise, we made a $648 million miscalculation -- but I don't believe that to be the case."



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[coyotetrickster]

Not that Muni needs the excuses, really. But simple cost-benefit ratios for infrastructure like this (or handwringing over the shakedown) are fallacious. The traffic signalling system is new to SF, so a bit of caution is not a bad think. The longer transit (From Visitacion V to the Castro) is semi-problematic but not without reason to reach the earlier benchmarks. Anything, I repeat, anything that creates the possibility for long-term change in an uber-depressed area cannot be dismissed as a simple boondoggle because the initial shakedown period is not a bright shining light. Who knows where the delays are. It could be in queueing in the stations. Problems near the ballpark (traffic gets heavy). The rail is not dedicated and we aren't able to put laser cannons on the front of the cars to vaporize folks in the wrong lanes:-)


650 million should get you more than a lightrail that is as slow as the bus it is replacing and which serves a relatively low density area

Add another 1.5 billion for the central subway and this could be one of the biggest boondoggles in the history of transit planning

Let hope they can improve the performace a lot and push through some big land use changes to maximize this investment

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/04/02/BAG04OVSE91.DTL

I have a bad feeling about this line.


SAN FRANCISCO
3rd St. rail line goes full-time on Saturday
Rachel Gordon, Chronicle Staff Writer

Monday, April 2, 2007


The San Francisco Municipal Railway will remove the training wheels from the new Third Street streetcar line when it begins full service Saturday, and only then will officials know whether their promise of improved transit service for the city's southeastern neighborhoods will be fulfilled.

One of the biggest questions is whether the $648 million rail project will provide a faster ride than the workhorse 15-Third bus line that has served the corridor for 67 years and will be retired when the streetcar takes over.

If a Chronicle reporter's ride two weekends ago was any indication, there's a lot of work to do. It took one hour to get from the end of the line in the Visitacion Valley neighborhood near the Daly City border to Fourth and King streets near the Giants ballpark in San Francisco's South of Market neighborhood. That's double the time that Muni hopes to achieve with the new line.

But officials are quick to point out that the new streetcar line, officially known as the T-Third, is in the test phase and that the slower running times were anticipated during the period. Still under way, they say, is training for the operators learning the new stretch of track, tweaking of the new high-tech signals and testing the electrical system to make sure it can handle the load without shutting down.

"We're still in testing mode and knocking out the kinks, getting through the myriad of things that could go wrong,'' said San Francisco Municipal Transportation Agency chief Nathaniel Ford.

Muni began weekend testing of the new streetcar line in January as part of a soft-launch, temporarily allowing passengers to ride for free. On Saturday, the 5.1-mile T-Third will join the rest of the Metro light-rail system full-time, and within a decade is expected to carry 71,000 riders per day.

Ford said the travel-time goals are: 23 minutes between Visitacion Valley and the ballpark, and 47 minutes between Visitacion Valley and the Castro Station. During the trial period, the run times have averaged 27 minutes and 54 minutes, respectively, Ford said.

During the weekend tests, passengers have been allowed to ride for free and ridership has been light -- two factors that speed boarding -- and traffic hasn't been as heavy as it would be on weekdays, meaning that the trains don't have to contend with as much time-consuming congestion.

On the other hand, Ford said the trains deliberately have been running at a slower-than-optimal speed, partly as a precaution because people driving cars in the area still are getting used to the fact that trains are running down the middle of Third Street and new traffic rules are in place.

Ford predicted success come opening day.

"It took decades to get to this point,'' said Ford, who inherited the project when he took the top post at Muni 14 months ago. "We're very proud of getting to this milestone.''

Janet Tyler, a 24-year-old receptionist who recently moved back into her mother's Bayview district home and works downtown, now rides the 15-Third -- a trip she said now usually takes her about 45 minutes -- and hopes the change will make her commute swifter and smoother.

"What I heard from friends is that the train is slow,'' Tyler said Thursday morning as she waited for the bus on Third Street. "But Muni says it will get better. I hope they're right. People out here have waited a long time for this.''

Completion of the project was more than a year behind schedule and ran more than $150 million over the original cost estimate. It has been in the works for more than 20 years -- construction began in 2002 -- and represents more than just another capital project.

It also represents a real and symbolic link between neighborhoods in the city's economically struggling and largely black and Asian southeastern neighborhoods with the political and financial strongholds downtown. The project even has a slogan: "Connecting people. Connecting communities.''

Mayor Gavin Newsom has a lot riding on the project. Newsom, running for re-election in the fall, has made improving the city's troubled transit system a top priority and the T-Third line can be used to showcase an accomplishment or be held up by critics as a failure.

The mayor said last week he is confident that the new light rail line won't disappoint.

"No one expects it to be perfect from day one; people have to be a little patient,'' he said. "But there will be better service, better on-time performance, more convenience. Otherwise, we made a $648 million miscalculation -- but I don't believe that to be the case."



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[fflint]

What makes me especially concerned about this new line's cost-benefit ratio is the fact that it runs for vast stretches through very low density areas--and the "progressive" stupidvisors have all but banned the new, high-density housing construction along unused and under-used stretches of the T Third that could make the line an eventual success.

[coyotetrickster]

What makes me especially concerned about this new line's cost-benefit ratio is the fact that it runs for vast stretches through very low density areas--and the "progressive" stupidvisors have all but banned the new, high-density housing construction along unused and under-used stretches of the T Third that could make the line an eventual success.


Yeah, but land is long, the current board of supes is short (term-limited) and Sue Hestor and Calvin Welch have got to die sooner or later:hell:

[BrianSac]

I agree, this train is incredibly slow. But is it slower than the N-Judah when it hits the avenues? :shrug:

[BTinSF]

I have a bad feeling about this line.

650 million should get you more than a lightrail that is as slow as the bus it is replacing and which serves a relatively low density area



I have not such great feelings about it myself because I think the Geary corridor should have been served first with either a light rail line or BRT, whichever is determined to make the most sense.

I think it's understood that Third St. got rail transit before Geary because of--dare I say it?--racial politics and the fact that Willie Brown thought San Francisco owed something to the BayView. And, to be fair, a lot of people agreed with him.

But your question is a fair one. Having spent the money, did we get something worth having? I think we did. First of all, the article suggests the service will not be as slow as the bus once it's "up to speed". And to the extent that it isn't as much faster as some might think it should be, that really doesn't surprise me since it's main speed advantage is the exclusive right of way (along with fewer stops, perhaps), which really only confers an advantage in places with substantial traffic. Only part of the route has that--the southern part. There's a long stretch along the central waterfront area where there's no reason to think a bus couldn't keep pace with the train. But the train carries more people in more comfort. And if the Board of Supervisors ever comes to its senses and realizes SF's days as a light industrial city are over, Third St. has the potential for Wilshire Blvd. style development. In that case, exclusive-right-of-way light rail will be essential because of its capacity.

[Frisco_Zig]

It looks like I messed up my title for this thread

[Frisco_Zig]

Anything, I repeat, anything that creates the possibility for long-term change in an uber-depressed area cannot be dismissed as a simple boondoggle because the initial shakedown period is not a bright shining light.

Of course I hope it helps the Bay View but it seems that when transit planning is driven 100% by politics this is what you end up with. Was it simply a symbolic gesture of "hey we care"?

Political reality is such but hopefully for 600 million we get more than a smoother ride for residents

Anyhow it seems to me in rational world an electrified CalTrain, with stops in Vis Valley and Oakdale Avenue could bring downtown workers to a TransBay terminal in half the time, with buses working as locals for the neighborhood

I wonder if this streetcar will never be appreciably faster than the bus considering there is very little traffic congestion on 3rd street

[Frisco_Zig]

What makes me especially concerned about this new line's cost-benefit ratio is the fact that it runs for vast stretches through very low density areas--and the "progressive" stupidvisors have all but banned the new, high-density housing construction along unused and under-used stretches of the T Third that could make the line an eventual success.


As I recall this was the whole argument (other than helping to connect poor people I guess) as to why we planned a 3rd street light rail rather than on the Geary corridor where we all know the ridership is high was potential for these huge new neighborhoods

[Frisco_Zig]

I think it's understood that Third St. got rail transit before Geary because of--dare I say it?--racial politics and the fact that Willie Brown thought San Francisco owed something to the BayView. And, to be fair, a lot of people agreed with him

This is SF but it seems both phases of this massive infastructure project are based of politics and not sound transit planning; bringing rail to Chinatown and bringing rail to the BayView has little to do with moving people effectively

[LongBeachUrbanist]

Political reality is such but hopefully for 600 billion we get more than a smoother ride for residents

Million, not billion.

[gallo]

People on the 15 bus are pissed that the 15 is going away. Nobody really knows how they're going to get from North Beach / Chinatown to South of Market. I expect confusion and massed hysteria on April 7th in my neck of the woods.

[coyotetrickster]

Million, not billion.

600 billion, we'd get light and heavy rail down Geary, a second transbay tube, high-speed rail and a tunnel under the ggate connecting Marin to SF underground, plus maybe a really cool circle line that connects x-town (say down divis or, hell, Along Park Presidio/19th. and connects with the T-line in both endpoints.

[LongBeachUrbanist]

This is SF but it seems both phases of this massive infastructure project are based of politics and not sound transit planning; bringing rail to Chinatown and bringing rail to the BayView has little to do with moving people effectively

Ridership should not be the sole indicator of success for a project like this. Much of this project's expense was used for things that make a neighborhood livable and effective. Things like landscaping and street furniture, sidewalks finally fixed after years of neglect, etc. Not to mention the maintenance yard that will be used by the entire system.

[BTinSF]

First of all, hey Zig, how about renaming this to reflect it's about the Third Street Rail line.

Anyway, here's a story about the other benefits of the project.

Third Street merchants optimistic
Streetcar line's construction took heavy toll, they say, hoping sacrifices will now pay off

Rachel Gordon, Chronicle Staff Writer
Thursday, April 5, 2007

Eugene Vincent watched his business slowly evaporate five years ago when construction crews ripped up the roadway in front of his Third Street shop to build a new streetcar line.

Today he's sensing opportunity as he looks out the window of his storefront in San Francisco's Hunters Point neighborhood. He sees a spruced-up streetscape that could lure more shoppers and residents to the area and spark an economic renaissance.

For the merchants along Third Street, the $648 million light-rail project has been bittersweet. Some closed their shops and restaurants during construction. Others barely hung on. A handful took a chance and opened new businesses.

Vincent has lived all three.

In 2004, he closed a 99-cent store he ran on Third Street because, he said, the construction project drove away business. Since then, however, he has opened a new produce shop across the street and has managed to scrape by, hoping that business will start to pick up.

"It was terrible during construction. They tore up the sidewalk, they took away parking, there was dust everywhere," said Vincent, 51, who grew up in a Hunters Point public housing project and now owns a home in the neighborhood. "But I have hope. I've got to."

Construction of the 5.1-mile T-Third streetcar line began in 2002. On Saturday, the line officially opens with service seven days a week, bridging the city's southeastern neighborhoods with the Market Street corridor.

And while buses ran down Bayshore and Third Street for decades, city officials say the new light-rail line signals San Francisco's willingness to commit resources to the southeastern neighborhoods that long have been troubled by poverty and violent crime.

The city didn't just lay track down the middle of the street, but planted new trees, installed new street lamps, added public art, repaved the sidewalks with decorative brick designs and helped pay for new awnings and signs for businesses along the train route -- a path along which new residential development already is sprouting.

The new streetcar line is expected to serve as a vital transit artery. The train ride from the end of the line in Visitacion Valley to the Financial District is supposed to take 31 minutes, shaving 10 minutes off the running time of the 15-Third Street bus.

Geary Brown, who owns a trucking business, is hoping to cash in on the anticipated boom. This week he was busy transforming an empty storefront on Third Street near Revere Avenue into a gourmet deli and international food market. The 55-year-old entrepreneur hopes to open within two months.

"If you're going to do something in this neighborhood, you better do it now," said Brown, who has a five-year, $3,500-a-month lease on his store, which is approximately 1,800 square feet. "I have a feeling this train is going to change the neighborhood."

Ernestine Howard said the streetcar line has already changed the neighborhood -- for the worse.

The disruption caused by construction caused a 50 percent loss in business, said Howard, co-owner of the family-run Wendy's Cheesecake Bakery at the corner of Third Street and Quesada Avenue.

"I'm hoping and praying that when the train starts running full time, it will bring my business back and things will get better," she said.

She listed a handful of businesses that have shuttered. One, a former barbecue joint down the block, had an official-looking printed sign over its front door that said, "Merchants Open for Business."

One of the biggest gripes among merchants concerns parking. The T-Third project resulted in a loss of 300 parking spaces fronting their businesses on Third Street and Bayshore Boulevard. City officials say that couldn't be helped. But, they point out, parking was added on adjacent side streets, resulting in an overall net gain of about 100 parking spaces in the corridor.

Another concern is a new restriction on left-hand turns from Third Street, although officials say they will be allowed at least every four blocks.

Vince Lorenzo, vice president of the family-owned Mazzei's Hardware store, which opened in 1936 during the Great Depression, described the construction project as a nightmare, particularly when the street was torn up and there was no parking in front of his store.

"Thank God we have loyal customers," he said.

Lorenzo figures the store lost $100,000 in business over the two years that construction was in full swing. "It's not something we can make up," he said.

But, like other shopkeepers and restaurant owners interviewed, he voiced optimism.

"Business is already coming back, and there seems to be a lot of new stuff opening. Hopefully things will pick up," Lorenzo said. "Now they just have to figure out how to stop the violence."

http://www.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2007/04/05/ba_wb_streetcar02_0005.jpg

E-mail Rachel Gordon at rgordon@sfchronicle.com.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/04/05/BAGGVP2T3A1.DTL

[Frisco_Zig]

First of all, hey Zig, how about renaming this to reflect it's about the Third Street Rail line.

Anyway, here's a story about the other benefits of the project.

I think the inital title is locked from edits

[Frisco_Zig]

Ridership should not be the sole indicator of success for a project like this. Much of this project's expense was used for things that make a neighborhood livable and effective. Things like landscaping and street furniture, sidewalks finally fixed after years of neglect, etc. Not to mention the maintenance yard that will be used by the entire system.

The maintenance yard might be a great an indicator of success but the rest seems to be a stretch. If the transit itself is not effective how about just fixing sidewalks?

[J_Taylor]

I saw a few of the "T" line with T-Sunnydale the other day..
Anyone know if that was a one off fluke or what?

[Frisco_Zig]

Even if it ran perfectly it would be no improvement and its been closer to disaster

It's pushed me back to my car this week

next up 1.6 billion Central Subway! Get from Bay View to Chinatown in just under 2 hours!

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/04/13/MNGVFP852O1.DTL

San Francisco's new streetcar line was designed with a safety device that officials blame for many of the exasperating delays commuters experienced this week.

Municipal Railway officials scrambled for a temporary fix and unsnarled streetcar travel Thursday through the peak periods. Now they must come up with a long-term strategy to keep the system on track.

At the intersection of Fourth and King streets, the T-Third line crosses in front of the J-Church line, creating a potential for train collisions. In an effort to prevent such accidents, engineers devised an automatic system that locks the T-line trains in place if an approaching J-Church train is at a boarding platform a block away.

But the system has created a bottleneck during the peak morning and afternoon commutes, backing up trains and causing service delays. The $648 million T-Third line started full service Monday, and problems rippled through the entire Muni Metro rail system.

Officials said they didn't foresee the extent of the problems during the planning process or the three months of limited weekend test runs.

"We're looking at making adjustments," Municipal Transportation Agency chief Nathaniel Ford said Thursday. "But safety will always come before speed."

For now, Muni has deployed extra supervisors and parking control officers at the intersection during the morning and evening commutes to help manage the streetcar traffic. And while it appeared to help in the morning commute Thursday, it's not a permanent solution for the short-staffed agency.

For the long term, Ford said the agency is looking at retiming traffic signals and moving the point at which the track lock kicks in. Ultimately, time could be saved if the trains wait closer to the intersection. Now, when they get backed up, they often miss several traffic signal cycles, and the delays build.

Officials have decided not to use a special traffic-signaling system that gives streetcars priority to move through the Fourth and King intersection. They fear that would create a major tie-up for vehicles heading off of and onto Interstate 280 down the block, said Muni spokeswoman Maggie Lynch.

Also, Caltrain commuters who want to transfer to a Muni streetcar have two choices during the peak commutes: the J-Church or the T-Third, each with a separate boarding platform, forcing people to guess which train will arrive first. People have been dashing from one platform to the other, putting them at risk of getting hit by traffic.

The continued frustration and ire of Muni riders was evident Thursday as Ford stood on the J-Church boarding platform at Fourth and King to monitor the morning commute.

"Do you have anything to do with this mess?" one man said as he rushed onto a train, pointing his finger at Ford's face. "You better fix it."

Since the T-Third weekday service was launched Monday, problems have rippled through the rest of the Muni Metro rail system.

Ford -- who posted a "Dear Muni Customers" apology online Wednesday that was soon pulled back -- issued another apology letter Thursday. He said fixing the problem is exactly what he intends to do.

Trains have been backing up in the Market Street tunnel, particularly at the Castro and Embarcadero stations, where the trains can turn around. One reason is that the two-car N-Judah trains, which used to run through to Fourth and King streets, are being turned around at the Embarcadero. That takes longer than turning around the one-car trains used on other Metro lines.

Small disturbances also can cause delays.

On Thursday during the morning commute, the trains from all the rail lines were pulling into the Embarcadero every 30 seconds or so, one after another. And then, without notice, a driver briefly parked his train at the platform and took a bathroom break. Three streetcars behind him had to wait, throwing the schedule off.

"Not that I begrudge him," said Ford, who arrived at the station a little after dawn, "but at this time, during the morning commute? It's not good."

Ford was back at the Embarcadero during the evening commute and reported the operation was running more smoothly than in previous days.

Broken train doors, restroom breaks, power outages, switching hang-ups on the tracks -- any of those problems can throw the Metro system into disarray. "There's not a lot of wiggle room," he said.

Starting with the Wednesday evening commute, Muni deployed managers and supervisors to problem areas in an attempt to keep the heavily used rail system from collapsing. The effort seemed to be paying off as the number and length of delays weren't as bad as on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday mornings.

"It's a little better, but I'm not holding my breath," Derek Joe, a 38-year-old computer programmer, said as he got off an N-Judah train Thursday morning. "The last few days were pretty miserable. I hope they've got the problems figured out and fixed."

Monica Love was still irritated.

"I might be late to school," said Love, a 40-year-old student who was riding the T-Third from Bayview to downtown. It was 8:14 a.m. She said she had gotten to her streetcar stop an hour earlier, and she had yet to reach the Market Street tunnel. Class started at 8:30 a.m.

"When I took the 15-Third, I could get downtown in a half hour,'' she said. Muni discontinued the 15-Third bus line when service began on the T-Third.

Even before the introduction of the T-Third, Muni was grappling with serious reliability problems.

"We knew we already were stretching the limits from a people standpoint and from an equipment standpoint," Ford said.

Shortages of streetcars and drivers contribute to the problems, because when there are too few of either, runs are missed, causing delays. But at least this week, all the runs have been staffed. Spare streetcars are ready in case of breakdowns, and Muni employees are working overtime to keep shifts filled.

So why expand service when the existing operation is teetering? "The people of Bayview and the other neighborhoods the T-Third serves have waited long enough,'' Ford said. "It was one of those things where we just had to jump in the water and start to swim."



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pressure point in Muni Metro system

1 At Fourth and King streets, the T-Third crosses the J-Church, presenting the potential for accidents.

2 Muni-installed track locks keep the T-Third in place while the J-Church passes through the intersection. The system has created a logjam of trains during the morning and afternoon commutes.

3 Caltrain commuters can choose between the J-Church and T-Third to get downtown. Commuters have rushed between the two platforms hoping to catch the first departing train, putting them in danger of getting hit by a car.

What's next: Muni officials are looking at several solutions, including adjusting the automatic track locks so the trains don't get backed up and changing the timing of the traffic signals at the intersection.

[ozone]

I want to know where the 650 million is coming from.

[StevenW]

:D :notacrook: :banana: :whip: :jester: 600 billion, we'd get light and heavy rail down Geary, a second transbay tube, high-speed rail and a tunnel under the ggate connecting Marin to SF underground, plus maybe a really cool circle line that connects x-town (say down divis or, hell, Along Park Presidio/19th. and connects with the T-line in both endpoints.

Why stop there? Throw in a couple of monorail lines, a maglev line and some jet packs people can rent. :yes: :tup: :haha: :cheers: ;)

[Frisco_Zig]

I want to know where the 650 million is coming from.

Is this a trick question? Mostly local sales tax and also State and some Federal money

[BTinSF]

On Thursday during the morning commute, the trains from all the rail lines were pulling into the Embarcadero every 30 seconds or so, one after another. And then, without notice, a driver briefly parked his train at the platform and took a bathroom break. Three streetcars behind him had to wait, throwing the schedule off.

"Not that I begrudge him," said Ford, who arrived at the station a little after dawn, "but at this time, during the morning commute? It's not good."



:hell: This was the part I loved when I read the article. It's so very "Muni". Gotta go? Then park your vehicle at the absolutely most critical bottleneck in the system and block everything. Screw the riders; the union will protect you. And management? "Well, gee, um, well, we wish he hadn't done that.":hell:

Does anyone know how a "real" transit system, like maybe New York's subways, handle the drivers' need to relieve themselves? Catheters maybe?

[ozone]

Is this a trick question? Mostly local sales tax and also State and some Federal money

No trick I'd just like to see the break down . In others words I'd like to know what precentage of state and federal tax dollars is going for this.