[rapid_business]

Any letters make it to the journal yet? I've yet to write mine.

[Jasper and one o nin]

http://www.nadc.gov.ab.ca/seminars/CN-CAANA.pdf
If these clowns ever decide to play hardball then they'll be burried. What's the city/eaa waiting for, just do it now?

[Jasper and one o nin]

I was having drinks with an engineer who is well known in the area. We got talking about the City. In the fifties, Edmonton was poised to become the oil capital of canada. many of the major companies had offices here. When the sixties came and oil companies were becoming very serious about alberta - one of the key reasons the HO's went to calgary is there were too many restrictions for building in downtown Edmonton - specifically building height created by the muni.
So... seems to me that the time would be right to do something now and, as a minimum, close one runway!!!

[Coldrsx]

^one of many reasons.....but Calgary things going for it as well.

[Jasper and one o nin]

yeah, but at the time - it made lots of sense to be in Edmonton. Government, location (in terms of close to the resource), University, manpower, etc.. The major hurdle was the red tape and restrictions

[ExcaliburKid]

The muni is Edmontons achilles heel. Its got great history, but should have been shut down the minute YEG opened its doors

[Edmonchuck]

That's the part that I don't understand. Removing 12/30 will be the nail in the coffin, but removing all the passenger facilities wasn't?



It was, but the fact that everything else is still there and intact (you conceivably could have YXD up and running again in a year) gives people hope. Terminals are just garages with seats....especially non-international ones.

[Jasper and one o nin]

Muni’s glory days are past. Get over it
Re: “Muni has a larger role to play,” Letters, Nov. 23.


Friday’s letters on the City Centre Airport reek of special interest groups that can’t even get their facts straight.


Let’s start with the notion that air service was better when the Muni was open. One must remember that in the past, the federal government subsidized airline service to markets that could not sustain routes. Once the air industry was deregulated, Edmonton’s split service soon succumbed to flight cancellations many years before consolidation.


Comparisons to multiple airports in Toronto and Vancouver are inapplicable. We have a smaller population base than either city and both have major airports serving tens of millions of passengers as hubs. Furthermore, when Denver was considering its options, Edmonton was cited in reports as an example of how divided service is detrimental.


Finally, bringing up drive time to the International is useless unless the only airport one wants to compare us to is Calgary. Whether it be Toronto, Vancouver, Denver, Chicago, or any other city, a travel time of 30 to 40 minutes, depending on traffic, is not bad at all.


It’s time we move on. The whining forces of the Muni memorial movement are doing nothing but securing its fate. It is time to blow the thing up and stop shooting ourselves in the foot.


The International Airport is growing, we are finally ceasing to be a feeder to Calgary, and things are getting better.


Edmonton is on the verge of being a truly great city and it is time for people to focus on what is best for the city and not sabotage us all for a few personal business interests.

[Jasper and one o nin]

Close the entire airport
Edmonton needs to take steps to reform its image and fix its infrastructure problems. Todd Babiak was right on the mark in his column (“Inspiring designs offer hope: If Edmonton wants to shed its ugly image, we need more risktakers,” Nov. 18), in which he stated that Edmonton suffers from poor planning.


The issue of keeping the City Centre Airport open is an example of this poor planning.


How many significant cities have a secondary airport so close to downtown that it affects the construction of highrises and takes up valuable land? Not many. How many cities have an International Airport as difficult to reach from downtown as ours? Also not many.


Mayor Stephen Mandel has said that he wants Edmonton to start thinking big. One idea would be to plan a freeway that links downtown and the International Airport. The current route of Gateway Boulevard/Calgary Trail to the city centre is cumbersome, slow, unsightly, and in need of a major overhaul. Visitors arriving are introduced to the city along an initial unlit stretch of roadway, followed by a commute through many traffic lights and past uninspired industrial buildings. The first impression remains drab and blighted, despite attempts by the city to beautify Gateway Boulevard.


Contrast this to Calgary, where visitors whisk in on the Deerfoot Trail with shiny office towers in view and easy to reach. Calgary’s energy is instantly palpable. If you were scouting out places to set up shop, which locale would you pick?


Promising suggestions have been made to diversify Edmonton’s economy away from its reliance on energy servicing and towards knowledge-based industry. TEC Edmonton, developed to transform innovation into business, is part of the University of Alberta’s Enterprise Square in the old Bay building. One hope is to spin off industry in the downtown area, finally giving us a critical mass of commerce there.


However, the downtown is difficult to reach from the International Airport, making this prospect less feasible. A quick connection between the two would be vital, as such industry would rely on air links to technology centres like Seattle and San Francisco, which the International Airport currently serves on a non-stop basis.


The City Centre Airport is often used as a pawn by the heavily Calgary-weighted provincial government, which prefers the ease of the downtown airport. Since the province currently funds two roads in Calgary (Deerfoot and Stony Trails) and only one in Edmonton (Anthony Henday), it seems only fair that the province fund a second major roadway in Edmonton, namely an International Airport-downtown connector. This would go a long way towards resolving the problematic route into our city.


Perhaps a high-speed rail link along this hypothetical new freeway could be added if we want to think really big and stray from our automobile dependence.

[Jasper and one o nin]

Consolidation a success
I found many of the arguments in last Friday’s letters about the City Centre Airport to be too general or fallacious. In response, I have a few questions: Sure, the growth of the International Airport has benefited Leduc and Nisku. But has it really taken away any growth from Edmonton? How many more people attend conventions or conferences in Edmonton as a result of direct air links with other major centres?


Why do Grande Prairie or Fort McMurray feel hard done by having to fly to the International Airport? Since consolidation, there is more direct scheduled and more affordable air service to these cities. Flights on WestJet or Air Canada last about 52 minutes, compared with one hour and 15 minutes from a private carrier leaving the City Centre Airport.


Whydosome Edmonton travellers still concede that Calgary is the hub for air travel? They will drive to Calgary to “save time and money” rather than flying direct from Edmonton. We are Canada’s fastest-growing airport, with nearly 50per-cent growth in the past two years. We have secured many Canadian, U.S. and international destinations, and will continue to secure more if we support Edmonton’s International Airport. Further, if Edmonton has to provide a downtown airport, perhaps Calgary should do the same for us. The time difference in travel from Edmonton or Calgary to their respective International Airports has been reduced significantly with the gradual opening of the Anthony Henday Drive. It’s about 30 minutes from Sherwood Park.


How many downtown commercial or business projects have been turned down as a result of the height restrictions placed on them because of the neighbouring airport? These office towers would bring in significant tax dollars to our city.


Edmonton’s International Airport has grown significantly, and the city’s economy is starting to diversify. Consolidating air service at the International Airport has resulted in an annual capacity of more than six million passengers — a marked increase from the three million about a decade ago and the $1-billion expansion at the International is another step in the right direction.


The City Centre Airport had its time, but it’s time we look to the future and leave this issue in the past.

[Jasper and one o nin]

International meets needs
I continue to read letters about why Edmonton’s City Centre Airport should be re-opened to regular scheduled air service.


With the International Airport embarking on a billion-dollar expansion that is clearly needed, as seen by the growing passenger count and congestion the terminal, I do not understand how City Centre Airport lobby groups can say that consolodation has failed and the City Centre Airport needs to be reopened to more flights.


Several carriers have seen the benefit of being at the International in terms of being able to carry both business and connecting traffic. The International airport offers several transborder flights. Also it’s traffic continues to soar with the daily service to England’s Heathrow airport and an expanded array of sun destinations.


Hearing people say Calgary is the only “hub” for Alberta is ridiculous.


General aviation and medivac traffic continue to grow at a very rapid pace, displaying the diversity of flights that can be handled at the International.


I see another “hub” on the horizon.

[Jasper and one o nin]

Close one runway
Yes, the International Airport could be closer, and any airport in the centre of a city has many negative effects on the urban development that surrounds it. In a perfect world, we would have one airport somewhere between the two.


The International is the fifth-busiest in the county and traffic is nearly double that of the sixth-busiest airport. There’s a direct scheduled flight to Europe and more direct flights to the U.S. than at any time in history.


Clearly, the International has established itself as a sustainable, self-supporting, successful major airport and there is no doubt the region has benefited.


Consolidating scheduled air traffic at the International was critical to keep Edmonton on the North American map.


Today, the region is poised to become a major international city because of Port Alberta, and its economically beneficial location. Without consolidation, the International would likely have closed because of the inefficiency of having airlines service two airports within a region of one million people. The region likely would not have the investment it does in refineries, medical research, businesses and educational institutions if it had a small commuter airport with limited capacity.


There is only one airport in the region able to handle scheduled air traffic. Let’s deal with it, and move forward.


Neither of the two airports can be moved, but steps can be made to ameliorate the negatives. For starters, let’s think regionally and provide LRT to the terminal.


Close one of the two runways at the City Centre in order to restrict the flight paths over urban areas and, at the same time, loosen the restrictions on downtown development.

[Edmonchuck]

YAY!!!! Good job everyone!

[ExcaliburKid]

^I'll say! Made my morning that much brighter :tup:

[tuffyy]

Wow! when they edit your letter it kinda looks like a 5 year old did it....Oh well I made my point.:tup:

[Coldrsx]

nice work guys

[CanadianCentaur]

Cool! Nice to see pro-consolidation letters for a change!!

[Edmonchuck]

BTW - contacted the ERAA...they say thank you!

[rapid_business]

I have to ask, who's letter was the "freeway to downtown" one?

[brento79]

Ottawa, EU pursue 'open skies' deal
Bloomberg

November 28, 2007

Canada and the European Union have started negotiating to deregulate transatlantic air travel, a step that would expand competition. The "open skies" talks that began yesterday may lead to a treaty letting European airlines fly to Canada from any airport in the 27-nation EU within a "couple of months," Transport Minister Lawrence Cannon said yesterday. An open skies agreement between the EU and Canada would lower fares and increase the number of air travellers between the two regions, Mr. Cannon said. Canada already has air-travel pacts with 19 of the 27 countries. Current rules require EU-based carriers to serve Canada from their home country.

[ExcaliburKid]

^Well its about bloody time. Step up ERAA.

[Canadian74]

If the negotiations are successful, Vancouver will get Air France and Calgary will get KLM. What will YEG get? FRA? But who will fly it? I doubt AC/LH will come before 2009.

[jeremy_haak]

If the negotiations are successful, Vancouver will get Air France and Calgary will get KLM.

Calgary could get KLM right now, and it has had it in the past. The current bilateral agreement with the Netherlands (http://www.cta-otc.gc.ca/air-aerien/agreements/html/netherlands_e.html) permits flights between Amsterdam and Halifax, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Calgary and Vancouver.

Strictly speaking Vancouver could also see AF (http://www.cta-otc.gc.ca/air-aerien/agreements/html/france_e.html) right now as well, though it would have to be routed through Tahiti. ;)

It's worthwhile pointing out that AC could start a flight from any point in Canada to CDG or AMS.

[tuffyy]

Your really arent serious now are you canadian74 are you???Oh wait your from Calgary so you must be correct and totally accurate in your airline management skills..Good job!!!

[brento79]

Martinair/KLM would finally be able to enter the Edmonton market on scheduled terms as the requested a few years ago...and then a few years before that.

[tuffyy]

Martinair has wanted to turn the Edmonton and Calgary routes into scheduled service for a number of years.It would be nice to see...

[Edmonchuck]

As soon as KLM applies, AC will protest as they did in 2005....

[brento79]

But under the new EU agreement, they won't have much say.

[rapid_business]

Damn AC purposely screwing YEG for their own bottom line :hell:

[tuffyy]

With AC being a very hub driven carrier as most airlines are it is very normal to see them not want this agreement to happen.It means that carriers who see a good route would likely launch it (aircraft permitting) and that does not mean a city with a AC hub or some other carriers gateway city...If it will make money ''launch it'' will be the thought.That poses a problem because it stands a very good possibilty at drawing some traffic away from the hubs, not ideal for carriers like AC.

[rapid_business]

Exactly! Screw AC if they want to pass over Edmonton for their hub-system!

[brento79]

Funny thing is if someone like LOT or another Star Alliance partner entered the Edmonton market Air Canada would probably codeshare.

[Edmonchuck]

Same would go for LH though... ;)

[ExcaliburKid]

I could very much see LOT coming into YEG, if economics are right. It makes sense for the Eastern European pop. anyway.

[rapid_business]

Man, Excalibur, you really need to change your avatar. I get scared just looking at that thing.

[ExcaliburKid]

Lol thats sorta the point, but I catch your drift. It will be a short lived experiment.

[Canadian74]

Same would go for LH though... ;)

Lufthansa will be coming to YYC from April 2008. Can't see them coming to YEG for the next few years (or a decade?:P ).

[ExcaliburKid]

^Dont worry, when they fly over Edmonton, approaching YYC, 2/3 of the plane will look for their houses down below

[tuffyy]

^Wow how old is this kid???I mean seriously canadian74???

In other news.

AeroMexico is back again with the Mexico city-Edmonton nonstops again in June 08.Guess they are a hit as this will be the third year in a row for them...By the way AM does not serve YYC so we got something to say there...;)

[Bigtime]

^Dont worry, when they fly over Edmonton, approaching YYC, 2/3 of the plane will look for their houses down below

Actually on the majority of the times I've flown the AC FRA-YYC run we never pass directly over Edmonton. Although there was one time when we did but unfortunately it was cloud covered.

Why did I feel like commenting on this? Heck even I don't know anymore! :haha:

And come on Canadian74, at least try to make an argument instead of gloating about what we're getting.

[Edmonchuck]

Lufthansa will be coming to YYC from April 2008. Can't see them coming to YEG for the next few years (or a decade?:P ).

WTF????????????????????

I was talking about codeshare and bi-laterals....awh forget it...

[Edmonchuck]

Actually on the majority of the times I've flown the AC FRA-YYC run we never pass directly over Edmonton.


You wouldn't....more Cold Lake....

[KrisYYC]

Damn AC purposely screwing YEG for their own bottom line :hell:

AC is a business, not a social service. Because they are a BUSINESS and not a CHARITY of course they will work for their own bottom line.

Don't forget about AC starting YEG-LHR.

I thought we were through with this whiney crap? I sure hope this isn't the attitude of the majority of Edmontonians. If that is the case, then why the hell would AC want to serve such a market anyway?

Kris

[rapid_business]

Thanks Kris :tup: , let me expand on this a bit.

AC has in the past made a case to the governing authorities to not allow certain carriers into the Edmonton market as it would jeopardize the Canadian industry. Their partnership in the Star Alliance has pressured associated airlines to avoid direct flights to the expanding market of YEG as well.

AC is dead set on protecting it's model of efficiency of hub cities which essential puts YEG at a disadvantage. If I was short-sighted and cared about my quarterly reports alone 1 year out at the max, I'd do the same.
The problem is, this isn't how a true free-market economy works, nor how the changing landscape of emerging airline markets work and will so in the future.

I could care less if AC gives YEG gives us the privilege of another direct euro or US flight. The LHR route was way over due, I'm not the guy bowing down to AC thanking them for it. I do care that they have parameters in place to discourage other airlines who see the monetary potential of said routes.

[Edmonchuck]

I thought we were through with this whiney crap? I sure hope this isn't the attitude of the majority of Edmontonians. If that is the case, then why the hell would AC want to serve such a market anyway?

Kris


...as onishenko says, it is about AC filing against new routes and service for Edmonton, not so much that AC doesn't serve us.

It is an historic problem.

So, "whiny crap"...not so much. There are very legitimate grievances Edmonton has with our national carrier.

Now, yes, they did start LHR - some 10 years late. Plus, their first few attempts were so set up for failure, and then they blame the market? Same with their LAX and SFO flights...

[Riise]

...as onishenko says, it is about AC filing against new routes and service for Edmonton, not so much that AC doesn't serve us.

But as Kris pointed out, AC is a private business. As such they act in ways that will protect their investment, which in this case they believe will be harmed by the aggregate of new routes to airports such as YEG. A single KLM route to YEG might not cause serious damage to AC but if this was combined with AF being allowed to fly into YYC, Cathay Pacific to Winnipeg, and Qantas to Hamilton this could cause serious damage to AC. It could end up preventing services such as YEG to YYZ and YYC to YVR, which would be disastrous for Canada as a whole compared to the inconvenience for Edmontonians of not being allowed to fly direct on KLM.

[tuffyy]

I agree that some people litterally ''whine'' about the airport issue...For me it isnt so.I came to Edmonton from Toronto a while ago and work at the airport for a FBO.I also have a airline management degree and also fly aircraft for the joy of flight.I personally dont whine about Edmonton's degree of airline service we have links to most of the ''major'' U.S hubs aswell as a large variety of sun destinations and the scheduled service to London Heathrow along side the summer charters to AMS,FRA,LGW etc.Do I however think this city could and can support several other routes?Yes I do...The buisness I work for also supplies fuel and services to some of the major's who serve YEG and we work closely with airlines who have shown a interest in serving YEG.I am from YYZ and worked there for many years before coming ''west''.Believe me when I say YYZ has little to no problems convincing airlines to serve that point, YEG is no YYZ but neither is YYC.The fact is YYC is a AC hub and that does alot for a city with the airline itself and its partner's (through star alliance) adding and considering YYC before YEG.Carriers outside of that may look to YEG before YYC however and that is my point.It has happened in the past with NW serving YEG nearly a decade before YYC and YVR,LO also flew WAW-YEG for almost a decade prior to 9/11 and it was the carriers western most point in N.america at the time, AM also continues to fly MEX-YEG (next summer will be the 3rd year) I dont see people saying ''we got AM'' and YYC doesnt, do you?I think the gloating from YYC'ers is what get's most with its almost arrogant twist.Although not all are guilty I have seen it several times.Yes some of us sound like whiners, some dont.But people in Edmonton want better air-service and I dont think there is anything wrong with that.

[Edmonchuck]

(...) It could end up preventing services such as YEG to YYZ and YYC to YVR, which would be disastrous for Canada as a whole compared to the inconvenience for Edmontonians of not being allowed to fly direct on KLM.

Now THAT is alarmist...sorry, I don't buy it. I'd see better service for many major centers. It is not like Edmonton is pathetically small compared to Calgary or Ottawa. It is AC protecting AC under the legislation it can utilize to prevent them from competing in a full service world. Westjet is only "discount". If you'd actually read their objections as filed, you'd see a different action outside simply "protecting their investment".

So, it is not whining, it is more looking for an open skies arrangement that prevents AC from blocking Edmonton service under the guise of protecting their investment.

Yes, AC needs to make sure it is viable, and there are good points to how they operate. Maybe I still have a CAI hangover...

...and this does not excuse the acts by Edmonton itself that placed them in this position...namely YXD.

[Coldrsx]

edmonton should have more flights and be the hub cause we are the capital and we have wem

[tuffyy]

I should have said aviation management degree...Not airline management...Yet:D

[newfangled]

edmonton should have more flights and be the hub cause we are the capital and we have wem

Are you still drunk? :tup:

[rapid_business]

After my attempt and being eloquent, it looks like Cold takes the cake. (or keg if you prefer)

[Coldrsx]

McLellan lands job with airports board
The Edmonton Journal
Published: 3:06 am

Former federal cabinet minister Anne McLellan has been named to the Edmonton Airports board by city council.

She is one of three new city appointees to the 15-member board, which governs both the Edmonton International Airport and the City Centre Airport. Edmonton has a total of six seats on the board.

Joining McLellan as city representatives are accountant Brian Bailey and Tom Redl, president of Chandos Construction.
Email to a friendEmail to a friendPrinter friendlyPrinter friendly
Font:

* *
* *
* *
* *

AddThis Social Bookmark Button

McLellan was a member of the Liberal federal cabinet until she lost her Edmonton-Centre seat in the last election. She is currently with the Bennett Jones law firm.

Other Edmonton Airports board members come from the federal government and the City of Leduc, as well as Leduc, Strathcona, Sturgeon and Parkland counties.


© The Edmonton Journal 2007

[IKAN104]

That's interesting. The article says all the surrounding counties have members on the board but does Edmonton have any representation?

[noodlenoodle]

Article quoted states Edmonton controls 6 out of 15 seats. Sounds a little low, but reasonable.

[lubicon]

I agree that some people litterally ''whine'' about the airport issue...For me it isnt so.I came to Edmonton from Toronto a while ago and work at the airport for a FBO.I also have a airline management degree and also fly aircraft for the joy of flight.I personally dont whine about Edmonton's degree of airline service we have links to most of the ''major'' U.S hubs aswell as a large variety of sun destinations and the scheduled service to London Heathrow along side the summer charters to AMS,FRA,LGW etc.Do I however think this city could and can support several other routes?Yes I do...The buisness I work for also supplies fuel and services to some of the major's who serve YEG and we work closely with airlines who have shown a interest in serving YEG.I am from YYZ and worked there for many years before coming ''west''.Believe me when I say YYZ has little to no problems convincing airlines to serve that point, YEG is no YYZ but neither is YYC.The fact is YYC is a AC hub and that does alot for a city with the airline itself and its partner's (through star alliance) adding and considering YYC before YEG.Carriers outside of that may look to YEG before YYC however and that is my point.It has happened in the past with NW serving YEG nearly a decade before YYC and YVR,LO also flew WAW-YEG for almost a decade prior to 9/11 and it was the carriers western most point in N.america at the time, AM also continues to fly MEX-YEG (next summer will be the 3rd year) I dont see people saying ''we got AM'' and YYC doesnt, do you?I think the gloating from YYC'ers is what get's most with its almost arrogant twist.Although not all are guilty I have seen it several times.Yes some of us sound like whiners, some dont.But people in Edmonton want better air-service and I dont think there is anything wrong with that.

A small clarification needs to be made here I think. AC's 2 main hubs are Toronto and Vancouver. Calgary and Montreal are not true hubs but act a smaller regional hubs for their respective regions. You will not see flights to Asia or the Europian cities (other than LHR and FRA) from Calgary for this reason.

[craneSpotter]

A small clarification needs to be made here I think. AC's 2 main hubs are Toronto and Vancouver. Calgary and Montreal are not true hubs but act a smaller regional hubs for their respective regions. You will not see flights to Asia or the Europian cities (other than LHR and FRA) from Calgary for this reason.

Just to further clarify, Montreal IS a major Air Canada hub. Air Canada has direct scheduled service to 8 European airports from Montreal, including 4 Star Alliance hubs! Follow the link and click on go to map then click on Canada.

Air Canada Interactive Route Map (http://www.aircanada.com/en/travelinfo/destinations/maps/interactive_route_map.swf)

Calgary is a mini-hub.

[jeremy_haak]

Just to further clarify, Montreal IS a major Air Canada hub. Air Canada has direct scheduled service to 8 European airports from Montreal, including 4 Star Alliance hubs! Follow the link and click on go to map then click on Canada.

Air Canada Interactive Route Map (http://www.aircanada.com/en/travelinfo/destinations/maps/interactive_route_map.swf)

Calgary is a mini-hub.

I'm not quite certain I would call Montreal a major hub for AC, though it certainly is a hub. Most of its flights rely heavily on O&D passengers rather than connecting passengers, at least compared to Toronto and Vancouver and its domestic feed is relatively small.

Also, I'm not sure where you got the idea that Montreal has AC service to 8 European destinations. The only destinations to Europe served by AC are London, Paris, Frankfurt, and recently, Rome. Lufthansa has service to Munich, and Swiss has service to Zurich.

[brento79]

However in Air Canada's world YUL is on of the big three's Calgary is a hub but mini and growing.

[4unot2no]

Any word on the actual numbers for november??
Or any renderings of the new hotel to be built at EIA?

[Jasper and one o nin]

no, and
no

[4unot2no]

I was reading article on the Port of Prince Rupert yesterday, and how ships and cargo are starting to come in? Made me realize that we are dragging our feet on getting the Port of Alberta off the ground.

I know a lot of planning goes into this, getting all parties invloved committed,

I would have thought that the facilites that are needed to make this successful would have been put in place as soon the fairview port was scheduled to open to take advantage.

Once i heard about the rail car derailment outside of edm, it made me realize that the cargo heading east was probably from Price george and that it simply bypassed edmonton.

i hate to be pessimistic, and am glad that the people involved are taking steps now but i hope we dont get burned with our poor planning\

Here is the link to the article
http://www.businessedge.ca/article.cfm/newsID/16776.cfm

[4unot2no]

Has a anyone else seen this

I was trying to book a flight, and say an adviertisment for YEG , saying book a ticket to 10 sunny places

Show a pic of YEG airport and plance taking off in the background and in the other half of the pic it shows a tropical island, kinda cool

[4unot2no]

Does anyone know if aircanada will be adding a 2nd flight or upgrade the plane to LAX anytime soon?

[Edmonchuck]

I was reading article on the Port of Prince Rupert yesterday, and how ships and cargo are starting to come in? Made me realize that we are dragging our feet on getting the Port of Alberta off the ground.

I know a lot of planning goes into this, getting all parties invloved committed,

I would have thought that the facilites that are needed to make this successful would have been put in place as soon the fairview port was scheduled to open to take advantage.

Once i heard about the rail car derailment outside of edm, it made me realize that the cargo heading east was probably from Price george and that it simply bypassed edmonton.

i hate to be pessimistic, and am glad that the people involved are taking steps now but i hope we dont get burned with our poor planning\

Here is the link to the article
http://www.businessedge.ca/article.cfm/newsID/16776.cfm


Port Alberta has a lot of momentum. I just wish the City and others would learn how to communicate faster and clearer...they leave the impression that they are doing nothing.

[CMD UW]

I was reading article on the Port of Prince Rupert yesterday, and how ships and cargo are starting to come in? Made me realize that we are dragging our feet on getting the Port of Alberta off the ground.

I know a lot of planning goes into this, getting all parties invloved committed,

I would have thought that the facilites that are needed to make this successful would have been put in place as soon the fairview port was scheduled to open to take advantage.

Once i heard about the rail car derailment outside of edm, it made me realize that the cargo heading east was probably from Price george and that it simply bypassed edmonton.
No we are not dragging our feet. And no the trains don't bypass Edmonton. CN built a large intermodal facility on the westend (184 Street) a few years back, this is a major staging ground for TEU's.

CP Rail is in the process of building their large intermodal facility on the southside of the City (41 Ave SW and QEII).

This is on top of developers assembling land to construct distribution centres and warehouses.

[4unot2no]

I agree to an extent

They are leaving a negative impression

But there were a few meeting that EDC went to when Fairview opened in Prince George, and
a seminar at the Shaw shorly after

this is not enough, they need more substatial plans, giving details where we are at and what the next steps being planned, and when they will be implemented.

Like i said these things should have been in put in motion prior to the opening of the port in BC. Where the facilities would have opened for business here in edmonton in conjuction with the BC port opening

I dont want edmonton to lose this opportunity for something big to another market, which is why i am concerned

[Aylmer]

Comment;
In the first pictures of the expantion, the parking lot is glass-like!
Wish we had that here...

[craneSpotter]

I'm not quite certain I would call Montreal a major hub for AC, though it certainly is a hub.

OK, you don't call YUL a major hub. However, Air Canada does consider YUL a major hub. :D

I'm not sure where you got the idea that Montreal has AC service to 8 European destinations. The only destinations to Europe served by AC are London, Paris, Frankfurt, and recently, Rome. Lufthansa has service to Munich, and Swiss has service to Zurich.

opps yep only 5 direct AC european routes (London,Paris,Frank,Rome and Munich by AC) 8 including other carriers.

[tuffyy]

YUL also has many carriers no other canadian cities see such as;Egyptair,Air Algerie,Royal air Maroc and will likely see Air France A380's very soon...

[noodlenoodle]

Considering Air France is not getting their first A380s until late 2009, "soon" may not be the correct word.

[Bigtime]

YUL also has many carriers no other canadian cities see such as;Egyptair,Air Algerie,Royal air Maroc and will likely see Air France A380's very soon...

I still hear that the AF 380 to YUL rumour may not come to pass. But I don't want to sidetrack the YEG discussion. Carry on!

[jeremy_haak]

I still hear that the AF 380 to YUL rumour may not come to pass. But I don't want to sidetrack the YEG discussion. Carry on!

I'll sidetrack it a bit longer... ;)

The economics of the A380 don't really benefit a relatively shorthaul route like YUL, so it's likely that they won't see service permanently; however, it is likely they will see service as a proving ground for testing the aircraft and getting crew familiar with the plane, not unlike AC and YYZ-LHR.

That said, none of these peripheral things make YUL an important hub for AC. Strictly speaking, a hub is a location where passengers connect to other flights. While YUL does get connecting traffic, and enough that it should be considered a hub, most of its European service is sustained by strong O&D traffic (traffic between Montreal and Europe). It's domestic connections are relatively weak (actually less than 50% of the traffic there).

[Edmonchuck]

Yeah, I don't see a 380 to UL...I just don't.

[4unot2no]

No we are not dragging our feet. And no the trains don't bypass Edmonton. CN built a large intermodal facility on the westend (184 Street) a few years back, this is a major staging ground for TEU's.

CP Rail is in the process of building their large intermodal facility on the southside of the City (41 Ave SW and QEII).

This is on top of developers assembling land to construct distribution centres and warehouses.

Do you have any idea when the intermodal facility on the southside is starting development. Would this not be better situated if it were closer to the airport??? Is this not what port alberta is all about. 3 modes of transportation (Train, Air, Truck )at single point.

[4unot2no]

Just a thought i was hoping someone could clarify

How does increased cargo traffic or capacity impact our chances if any at
securing addition commercial traffic? Will Port Alberta have any significant impact?

I am under the impression if i was an airline looking to add a new route
and need to pick a route between 2 different options

I would go with the route that i could potential make money on the cargo as well

Thoughts

[jeremy_haak]

Just a thought i was hoping someone could clarify

How does increased cargo traffic or capacity impact our chances if any at
securing addition commercial traffic? Will Port Alberta have any significant impact?

I am under the impression if i was an airline looking to add a new route
and need to pick a route between 2 different options

I would go with the route that i could potential make money on the cargo as well

Thoughts

It could have an affect if the cargo revenue is high enough, though it would more likely result in an existing flight to a larger aircraft than an new route. If the passengers aren't there, it makes more sense to fly a cargo jet on the route, or route the cargo through another airport.

[4unot2no]

My thinking is,

if the cargo is coming off the trains and needs to be shipped via air
that we stand to gain either a larger plan on existing routes or additional routes to handle the increased cargo that needs to be shipped.

Someone was saying on another thread that we actually lost cargo capacity?
This made me think if when airlines are making decisions to increase routes or provide service to a destination how much of the decison is in fact dictated by cargo revenue.

[Canadian74]

Yeah, I don't see a 380 to UL...I just don't.

Care to eloborate? :rolleyes:

[Edmonchuck]

Why? ...and that answers both questions...

[tuffyy]

AF operates a few daily flights to YUL last time I checked so a 380 could be on YUL's horizon sooner than we think...

[noodlenoodle]

Not till 2009 on the inside, and I don't think YUL is the first place they'll use their big new toy.

[tuffyy]

From what I have read it sounds like JFK will see the first AF 380 route,YUL was on the list aswell but JFK would be before YUL I am sure...NRT is also slated for AF 380's.

[CMD UW]

Do you have any idea when the intermodal facility on the southside is starting development. Would this not be better situated if it were closer to the airport??? Is this not what port alberta is all about. 3 modes of transportation (Train, Air, Truck )at single point.
CP is in the engineering design phase.

Why closer to the airport? The location of their planned facility is along a major highway, the mainline doesn't need to cross QEII, it's within a close proximity to the labour pool.

[jeremy_haak]

Well, technically AF has already flown to YUL with an A380, albeit not with their own metal. ;)

S-vh0aJt83A

I'm not sure if JFK or YUL will see it first, but YUL will definitely see it on occasion for crew and a/c testing.

[Edmonchuck]

So? The 380 also went to Iqaluit...does that mean a route there too?

noodlenoodle, I agree. With all the routes to choose from with much higher yeilds on better frequencies, YUL = no in teh short term...

[jeremy_haak]

So? The 380 also went to Iqaluit...does that mean a route there too?

Well, the major difference would be that AF carried passengers on this flight and Airbus didn't on the flight to YFB, but that's rather unimportant. The little winky face was supposed to indicate that I knew I was being ridiculous and silly. I'm sorry you overlooked that fact.

[Jasper and one o nin]

the day is just FULL of news

Good afternoon.

Please find attached the November 2007 Passenger Traffic Report for Edmonton International Airport.

HIGHLIGHTS:
- 485,466 passengers reports (419,781 in November 2006)
- Our rolling 12-month passenger total is 6,026,425 - the first time we have surpassed 6 million passengers!

GROWTH%:
- Overall 15.6% (November) and 17.1% (YTD)
- Domestic 14.9% (November) and 14.2% (YTD)
- Transborder 2.1% (November) and 16.8% (YTD)
- International 75.7% (November) and 101.8% (YTD)

If you would like further information about these results, please contact me.

Have a great day.
Deana

[ExcaliburKid]

Wow. Over 6 mil!

[Canadian74]

Why? ...and that answers both questions...

I meant why do you think YUL cannot get A380 service from Air France? There's a lot of demand on the YUL-CDG route. I think AF already has 3 or 4 daily flights in the summer.

The only problem that I think there is that the A380 will have a lot of premium seats and YUL isn't that high yield market for AF. But YUL will eventually get the A380 after JFK and NRT when AF gets their second batch delivered.

So? The 380 also went to Iqaluit...does that mean a route there too?

It went to Iqaluit for cold weather testings. Not route proving.

[jeremy_haak]

The only problem that I think there is that the A380 will have a lot of premium seats and YUL isn't that high yield market for AF. But YUL will eventually get the A380 after JFK and NRT when AF gets their second batch delivered.

The problem has more to do with the economics of the A380 which are better suited to longer haul flights than YUL.

[Edmonchuck]

The problem has more to do with the economics of the A380 which are better suited to longer haul flights than YUL.

Bingo.

[Edmonchuck]

It went to Iqaluit for cold weather testings. Not route proving.


Sarcasm aside, it seems every wannabe airline scheduler thinks a 380 will appear because they "tested something or other there"...YUL is no exception.

[Coldrsx]

how about some yeg talk?

[Edmonchuck]

OK

YEG won't see a 380 route..good enough for ya? :)

[Coldrsx]

^ha...no.

[Edmonchuck]

Slacker :P

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAnyway, was at YEG last night. There was some confusion for the LAS WJ passengers that connected from another flight. Yes, I said CONNECTED FROM ANOTHER FLIGHT. Anyway, they seemed to be a bit confused as to where to pick up their bags so that they could take them though to Customs.

YEG - you're getting more connecting passengers. Maybe ensure your connection sinage is up to par? ;)

On another note, I saw the new WJ walkthru check in counters on the domestic side as well. Nice easy flow thru for the passengers. Now to fill the old check in counters to the north!

[tuffyy]

^The only A380's we will see would be diversions for medical reasons etc...Or potentially freighter versions if port Alberta gets the go ahead.

Connections via YEG are a big reason for the growth we are seeing.On my last flight to CUN several of the passengers had connected from Grande prarie,Ft.Mac,Saskatoon,and Regina.

*Some YEG news

AC has slightly boosted the YEG-LAS flight with a A321 up from a A319 for the winter season.

Integra air will be adding more flights in the coming months as it adds more aircraft to its fleet.YQL-YEG-YQU,YQL-YEG-YXS-YXJ would be new and the YQL-YEG-YMM route is also to be increased.

Ameristar air cargo who currently operates cargo charters to YEG will start a weekly IAH-YEG cargo only flight using a DC-9 Freighter.The flight will carry mainly petroleum related products and parts for the projects near and north of Edmonton.

Thats all I got...

[Coldrsx]

"Ameristar air cargo who currently operates cargo charters to YEG will start a weekly IAH-YEG cargo only flight using a DC-9 Freighter.The flight will carry mainly petroleum related products and parts for the projects near and north of Edmonton."

good start...keep it coming

[Coldrsx]

Please find attached the November 2007 Passenger Traffic Report for Edmonton International Airport.

HIGHLIGHTS:
- 485,466 passengers reports (419,781 in November 2006)
- Our rolling 12-month passenger total is 6,026,425 - the first time we have surpassed 6 million passengers!

GROWTH%:
- Overall 15.6% (November) and 17.1% (YTD)
- Domestic 14.9% (November) and 14.2% (YTD)
- Transborder 2.1% (November) and 16.8% (YTD)
- International 75.7% (November) and 101.8% (YTD)