[KrisYYC]

Nah, they'll just hear "Port Alberta" and say "Oh that's where Calgary is!"

;) :D

[rapid_business]

It kinda goes with the fact that any magazine that talked about Canadian cities would focus on the big 3. Now it's the big 4. (hint: Edmonton didn't make the cut)

[ExcaliburKid]

Nah, they'll just hear "Port Alberta" and say "Oh that's where Calgary is!"

;) :D

Haha usually "anything" Alberta automatically makes people think Calgary

[Jeffsey500]

Haha usually "anything" Alberta automatically makes people think Calgary

Yay! Go Calgary!!!!!! The next center of the universe!!! (Wow, I just really annoyed myself really fast)

[lubicon]

I have a feeling Port Alberta is gonna be HUGE HUGE for our economy. Think of all the freakin things today that is "made in China".. now if we can tap into that and become a major distribution centre for many Chinese buinesses.. can you say cha-ching!

My only complaint is.. Why did they name it Port Alberta and not Port Edmonton?!

Naming it Port Alberta is not a bad idea actually. It gives the impression that it is the only/main port for the whole province and relegates others to secondary status. It reminds me of the 'Alberta Children's Hospital' in Calgary. The name gives you the impression that it is the only childrens hospital in Alberta.

[JAH]

Naming it Port Alberta is not a bad idea actually. It gives the impression that it is the only/main port for the whole province and relegates others to secondary status. It reminds me of the 'Alberta Children's Hospital' in Calgary. The name gives you the impression that it is the only childrens hospital in Alberta.

ahem STOLLERY ahem... ;)

Well Edm has a far way to go in terms of global recognition and seems to always take a backseat to Calgary. It would just be nice to have the name Edmonton attached to something this BIG. Since the focus has been changing names to include Edmonton (Edm Clinic, Edm Art Gallery).. Port Edmonton sounds good to me :tup: But in fairness, I do probably admit that the name ALBERTA is more recognized than Edmonton.

[tuffyy]

^That it does...

The image in Edmonton needs to change.Everyone is so down about this city and quite frankly I dont get it.
moved From Toronto living and working in Edmonton and this city offers everything any other major centre in Canada does including Toronto.Do I think more marketing could have been done?yes I do.Is Edmonton all bad because Calgarians say so?Nope...
Things are about to change in a real positive way for us up in the ''chuck''.Heck the chinese are taking notice and others aswell.Stand back and enjoy the ride.Its about to get really good...

As I have said before ''I promise''...

[JAH]

^That it does...

The image in Edmonton needs to change.Everyone is so down about this city and quite frankly I dont get it.
moved From Toronto living and working in Edmonton and this city offers everything any other major centre in Canada does including Toronto.Do I think more marketing could have been done?yes I do.Is Edmonton all bad because Calgarians say so?Nope...
Things are about to change in a real positive way for us up in the ''chuck''.Heck the chinese are taking notice and others aswell.Stand back and enjoy the ride.Its about to get really good...

As I have said before ''I promise''...

i'm getting goosebumps where i shouldn't be getting goosebumps

[S_B_Russell]

Hmmm... someone just posted this on C2E:

"I know that wikipedia can be changed be anyone to say anything and someone will probably come on here and say that but i was just wondering if anyone can verify the fallowing routes that i read today.

CDG (Paris) on air transat on june 1st
FLL on westjet
Sydney Tokyo and Beijing on Air Canada
Rome LHR and Santo Domingo on Zoom
and Lufthansa to FRA seasonal starting August 14

Here is the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YEG

I thought it was a little strange but go ahead and pick away at it."

Are we getting hotter?

[KrisYYC]

^^^ Sydney, Tokyo and Beijing on AC??? Bwahahahahaaha! Somebody is out to lunch. I wonder where AC is going to get the extra aircraft for these routes?

When did Zoom get slots at LHR?? :D

I'm not trying to be a party pooper, but come on. Somebody is dreaming.

[rapid_business]

If that is true...all I can say is wow!

[jeremy_haak]

Don't get your hopes up folks. The editor noted that the routes were planned to begin in 2009, which is far beyond the timeframe that AC would solidify plans for a new route. Also, the editor states that the frequencies would only be a few per month, which is completely uncharacteristic of AC's business plan which has been to eliminate those routes and bolster frequencies on better performing routes. Finally, the only edits by this editor have been regarding these routes (and the Air Transat CDG flight, which casts it into doubt as well) on the YEG page and the AC page (from which they were promptly removed). From my experience, Wikipedia is extremely unreliable when it comes to matters such as airline route networks. For a time I monitored the AC routes page, and it was a constant battle to remove destinations that had either been cancelled, or only existed in the imagination of the editor.

Edit: And now they're gone. Praise the powers of wikipedia.

[Rocket252]

Hmmm... someone just posted this on C2E:

"I know that wikipedia can be changed be anyone to say anything and someone will probably come on here and say that but i was just wondering if anyone can verify the fallowing routes that i read today.

CDG (Paris) on air transat on june 1st
FLL on westjet
Sydney Tokyo and Beijing on Air Canada
Rome LHR and Santo Domingo on Zoom
and Lufthansa to FRA seasonal starting August 14

Here is the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YEG

I thought it was a little strange but go ahead and pick away at it."

Are we getting hotter?

That list of routes would be something more likely to happen out of Calgary then Edmonton unfortuntely.

We can only dream.........

[EdmTrekker]

Wonder why EAA has not updated the passengers stats on the wiki site - and mentioned the new non-stop scheduled seasonal flights to MZL etc..

Here is an interesting, but known about article on the expansion:
http://www.journalofcommerce.com/article/id26036

[Coldrsx]

Jan. 16, 2008

Infrastructure

Edmonton International Airport embarks on $1 billion expansion plan

WARREN FREY

correspondent

Edmonton International Airport is embarking on a $1 billion expansion.

The move is designed to ensure that the facility remains competitive and can welcome an increasing number of people coming to live and work in Canada’s northernmost major city.

Alberta’s oil boom has driven growth not only in the construction industry but in practically every other aspect of Edmonton’s economy.

More and more people are arriving in the northern city not only to head north to the oil fields, but for a myriad of other jobs that have become available as the province’s boom continues.

The Edmonton International Airport, built decades ago for a city centered on government work and agriculture, isn’t up to the rapidly increasing demands being placed on its infrastructure.

Paul Garbiar, vice president of Infrastructure and Technology for Edmonton Airports, noted that passenger growth has consistently stayed in the double digits, meaning it has now become necessary to expand the terminal and parking facilities much more quickly than previously expected.

Total traffic was up 17 percent year-to-date as of November 2006, and in August 2007 alone the airport handled more than 600,000 passengers, a record for the facility.

The airport’s expansion will consist of $1 billion invested over a three-phase process which, when completed, will allow the facility to serve nine million passengers a year.

“In addition to an expansion to the south terminal, we’ll also be constructing new offices and a new tower. We’re in the early stages of engineering for the expansion, but some of the main focuses will be around increased food, beverage and retail. The expansion west of the central hall to accommodate the new offices and control tower will add approximately 1,500 square metres of food, beverage and retail facilities,” Garbiar said.

Of course along with increased foot traffic, the airport will also need to address parking issues, and over 1,000 new stalls are being added to the existing facility.

“In 2008, the parkade expansion will be complete, with a new 4,000 stall park and ride facility, and construction of a new hotel is also tentatively scheduled to begin in early 2008,” Garbiar said.

The hotel, a 192-room Marriot, is part of the expansion, but the costs are not part of the $1 billion budget, and will instead be borne by developer Concord Hospitality Enterprises Company.

Increased passenger capacity also means much more foot traffic to and from airplanes, and 13 new bridges will be constructed to and from the new southern hammerhead terminal, so named because of its unique shape. And because more planes will arrive and depart from the airport, the expansion will also include new apron space, the area where planes park to load and unload cargo, baggage and passengers.

Though there is steep competition for skilled labour throughout Alberta, Garbiar said the airport project is sufficiently different from other in-demand areas that they haven’t as of yet run into problems finding workers.

“Rising construction costs and labour are certainly a concern. But although we compete with the oil sands groups for these resources indirectly, the airport industry is more on the commercial than the industrial side of things,” Garbiar said.

He added the Edmonton Airport was looking forward to forming alliances with “key engineering, architectural and construction companies that have demonstrated the capability to carry projects of this size.”

http://www.journalofcommerce.com/article/id26036

[newfangled]

Here is an interesting, but known about article on the expansion:http://www.journalofcommerce.com/article/id26036

So I'm going to assume that this article was based on a press release from ERAA. Assuming that's the case, how did this paragraph make it in:

The Edmonton International Airport, built decades ago for a city centered on government work and agriculture, isn’t up to the rapidly increasing demands being placed on its infrastructure.

Is that actually part of the ERAA's marketing materials? Because it may be true, but why on earth would you write it? Do you want to make it sound like your primary asset is some weird time capsule farm airport?

You wouldn't want to maybe also mention the major expansion from 2000ish that's already been outgrown? Or maybe give the impression that you're a modern organziation that's involved in a continuing evolution process - rather than one that just wakes up once every few decades?

Good article. But PR in this city continues to baffle me.

[IKAN104]

“In addition to an expansion to the south terminal, we’ll also be constructing new offices and a new tower. We’re in the early stages of engineering for the expansion, but some of the main focuses will be around increased food, beverage and retail. The expansion west of the central hall to accommodate the new offices and control tower will add approximately 1,500 square metres of food, beverage and retail facilities,” Garbiar said.

This makes it sound like the tower and the expanded food facilities are part of the same expansion (in other words in the same building), but the plans we saw showed the tower completely separate from the terminal on the other side of the runway. Is that just poor wording in the article or are plans changing?

[Coldrsx]

^tower could mean offices...not control.

[IKAN104]

But it specifically says "control tower"

[Coldrsx]

But it specifically says "control tower"

true...everything i saw was the new tower way out in the middle of the western part of the field.

hmm

[tuffyy]

I hate to say this but who ever posted the changes on wikipedia are playing a game.None of that is true...

There are some developments coming.

[JAH]

So what are the most current popular North American distribution routes thats being used by most Asia markets now? How will Port Alberta compare in terms of time and cost in comparison with these current routes?

[MalcolmTucker]

So what are the most current popular North American distribution routes thats being used by most Asia markets now? How will Port Alberta compare in terms of time and cost in comparison with these current routes?

Depends if your talking about Port Alberta with just the train and truck component or whether you care about air cargo.

If you look at Walmart as an example of a very cost efficient distribution network, you would have to weigh the time value of money for their products.

Is it better to wait longer in China to go on a ship to Prince Rupert, to then have access to an uncongested port and rail line. Or is it better to go through Vancouver, and have the rail line pass close to your Sorting centre. Plus, it might make sense to go through Prince Rupert then have the train not stop at Port Alberta but just continue to Calgary where short haul drivers can move the containers to the SC.

If something is shipped from China on a boat, put on a rail car, why would it do its last mile on air then truck? It doesn't make sense. With TVM calculations, it doesn't make sense to transfer goods to a faster mode, if it was justifiable, it would have been on that mode already from the start.

Port Alberta is more about developing non-air revenue for the EAA than anything else. Even the EAA strategic plan doesn't have YEG handling more cargo than YYC does currently until like 2040.

That doesn't make it bad, just don't get confused with the objectives of expanding the cargo apron, and everything else. YEG will continue to be a major point for transporting things to the far north, but don't expect much airside growth from the Port Alberta concept besides normal growth due to apron expansion.

YEG can grow in other ways, and is (huge PAX #s) for most things, Port Alberta is just a branding concept! (that is until Harper renames it Joe Clark International :haha: )

[JAH]

Well the part that is a little confusing to me is the whole Chinese wanting to set up a warehouse here to assemble things. Thats totally different from the cargo-transport business. So do the Chinese businesses plan on hiring a whole bunch of Canadian workers to work at these warehouses? Or we talking like MAJOR warehouses here with hundreds of workers or a smaller operation? Guess we'll have to wait n see all the details

[IKAN104]

I hate to say this but who ever posted the changes on wikipedia are playing a game.None of that is true...

There are some developments coming.

Can you say approximately when we can expect an announcement?

[JAH]

Seeing how they specifically mentioned China and Walmart as users of Port Alberta, heres an interesting article I found regarding China and its exports for Walmart:

http://www.aflcio.org/corporatewatch/walmart/walmart_5.cfm

Some tidbits from the article:

"Wal-Mart is the single largest importer of foreign-produced goods in the United States, and the majority of its private-label clothing is manufactured in at least 48 countries around the world—and almost none in the United States.

Wal-Mart’s biggest trading partner is China. The world’s largest retailer admits it bought some $18 billion in merchandise in 2004, from China, nearly 10 percent of all Chinese goods sold in this country that year. Through August 2005, the United States was running a $126 billion trade deficit with China.

The company says its inventory of products made in China was expected to hit $18 billion in 2004, the second consecutive year the inventory grew by more than 20 percent. More than 70 per cent of the products sold at Wal-Mart are made in China, according to the China Business Weekly.

More than 80 percent of the 6,000 factories in Wal-Mart's worldwide database of suppliers are in China. If Wal-Mart were a separate nation, it would rank as China’s fifth-largest export market, ahead of Germany and Britain."

[MalcolmTucker]

Seeing how they specifically mentioned China and Walmart as users of Port Alberta, heres an interesting article I found regarding China and its exports for Walmart:


Who specifically mentioned Walmart as a user of Port Alberta?

[JAH]

Maybe I"m jumping to conclusions here. I thought I saw Walmart specifically mentioned.. but maybe the article was just using Walmart as an example. In any case.. if I'm Port Alberta.. I'll have Walmart very high on my list as a list of clients to attract.

[Coldrsx]

^i believe walmart was specifically mentioned as well.

[ZiZiPop]

Is it better to wait longer in China to go on a ship to Prince Rupert

Excuse my ignorance but why would you wait longer in China? Is it just ships to other ports get loaded first? Could this not change as Prince Rupert gets busier. From what I understand there is significant travel time savings to this port.

[JAH]

From Premier Stelmach himself:

http://www.premier.alberta.ca/speeches/speeches-2007-mar-29-Prince_Rupert_Port.cfm

Port of Prince Rupert Connector Event
Edmonton
March 28, 2007

Check Against Delivery

Thank you Bob for that kind introduction.

And good morning to you all.

On behalf of the Government of Alberta, I'd like to welcome you to the Port of Prince Rupert Connector event.

And to those of you from out of province: Welcome to Alberta!

I'd like to offer a special welcome to Mayor Herb Pond of Prince Rupert and Mayor Colin Kinsley of Prince George.

It came as good news to me that mayors Pond and Kinsley later today will be will signing a memorandum of understanding with Mayor Mandel.

I'm very proud of the spirit of cooperation that has grown over the years between the Alberta and British Columbia governments…

And I'm not surprised to see that same spirit is alive and well at the municipal level.

I believe this cooperative arrangement between the three municipalities will provide a tremendous boost in moving the Asia-Pacific Gateway Initiative forward.

My government is a proud sponsor of this event — along with Edmonton Economic Development — because we appreciate the enormous potential the Asia-Pacific Gateway represents.

Expanding and strengthening this important trade corridor is something that will benefit not only Edmonton and Alberta, but the rest of the country as well.

I've often said "What's good for Alberta is good for Canada."

Today I'd like to flip that around and add, "What's good for Prince Rupert and Prince George is good for Alberta."

Because at the end of the day, there is no "us" and "them."

We're all in this together.

I believe our province can both benefit greatly from the expansion of the Asia-Pacific Gateway, and at the same time we can provide a tremendous economic boost to B.C. and the rest of the country.

Our capital region is ideally situated along the Yellowhead route to the coast.

And it's home to government and business leaders with the vision and drive to make great things happen.

All you have to do is look around at the tremendous growth and prosperity around Edmonton.

This didn't happen by accident.

I'm proud to say that Alberta has a rock-solid reputation as a great place for industry to invest and to expand their operations.

And my government is committed to building on that reputation.

Like the folks at city hall and Edmonton Economic Development, were committed to working with industry and other governments to ensure we all benefit from expanded trade through the Asia-Pacific Gateway.

It's no secret that our province relies tremendously on exports to generate wealth and economic growth.

In 2006, Alberta exported more than $80 billion worth of commodities and value-added products.

While much of our trade is with the U.S., exports to Asia, and especially China, have been growing rapidly.

Exports to Asia have increased by more than 50 per cent over the last five years.

And given the distance to major markets, Alberta shippers rely heavily on efficient transportation links to remain competitive…

So our government sees the Port of Prince Rupert as offering a new and extremely effective route for container traffic — especially to Asian ports.

Prince Rupert offers a huge advantage, like sailing times to Asia that are one-and-a-half days shorter than from Vancouver, and about three days shorter than from Los Angeles.

And as we all know: time is money.

Prince Rupert is also at the end of a train route with capacity to absorb future growth.

And of course another key advantage is the terminal itself.

Prince Rupert offers a fast and efficient shipping alternative, and can help relieve some of the volume in Vancouver.

In short, I believe Albertans can and must capitalize on the opportunity that the Asia-Pacific initiative represents.

With the expansion of the Port of Prince Rupert, we can establish Alberta as an important inland terminal and distribution hub.

The federal government predicts that by 2020 container cargo coming through British Columbia ports is projected to increase by up to 300 per cent — from 1.8 million containers to as many as seven million.

And Edmonton, given its proximity to Prince Rupert, would make perfect sense as a key distribution hub along a growing corridor for goods to the west coast.

It could help alleviate congestion at shipping ports…

And Alberta could serve as an essential link in a supply chain that would be efficient and reliable.

We would also have tremendous opportunities to take advantage of the empty import container cars returning to Asia…

Take Alberta's agriculture industry as an example…

The success of this industry relies heavily on exports to Asian markets, with agri-food exports totaling approximately $1.3 billion annually.

For a low cost, Alberta's agriculture producers and shippers have the opportunity to fill many of these empty containers with crops and value-added exports heading back to Asia.

From an agriculture perspective alone, trade through the Port of Prince Rupert represents a huge opportunity for increasing overseas exports.

It has dedicated facilities for grain and specialty agricultural products…

Including an ultra-modern grain terminal, which I'm told has a storage capacity of more than 200,000 tonnes, and can load up to 4,000 tonnes of wheat or grain an hour.

Of course this is just one of the many opportunities that we have all come together to explore today.

I am confident that there will be real progress and tangible results from today's event — and the one scheduled for later this fall…

In closing, I'd like to acknowledge the great work of the folks at Edmonton Economic Development…

And in particular the members of the Transportation and Logistics Cluster — who played a key role in making today's event happen…

You have played an invaluable role over the years in bringing people together to share knowledge and develop partnerships…

Partnerships that benefit not only the capital region, but our province and the entire country.

Today's event is a perfect example.

Thank you all, and enjoy the rest of the day.

© 1995 - 2008 Government of Alberta

[MalcolmTucker]

Excuse my ignorance but why would you wait longer in China? Is it just ships to other ports get loaded first? Could this not change as Prince Rupert gets busier. From what I understand there is significant travel time savings to this port.

Less ships going, so more likely there would be a need to wait to get on a specific ship. Plus out of the however many ports in China, you would have to start at one that was served by a ship going to PR.

Its good for total shipment, don't get me wrong, with significant travel time savings.

It just doesn't make sense to ship things on a ship, then rail, then plane. Except for very specialized products or to destinations in the north. I was using the 'waiting' argument to show that if things are going on a ship, the 'time value of money' is not an obvious concern for the shipper.

Port Alberta will help with the Air cargo at YEG, but don't expect huge numbers, even the airport authority doesn't.

Port Alberta is more for significant non air revenue.

[Edmonchuck]

That is the point.

The synergy of an inland port with proximity to an airfield cannot be understated. You could hotshot goods in by air, then distribute to your local channels by truck.

We all need to understand that the air component is just that - a component. Port Alberta is really Metro Edmonton, and all the pieces being put in place including YEG...

This was why YEG was placed where it was all those years ago. YPR's success is also some 60 years late. Welcome to politics.

[rapid_business]

So why was the Leduc county site chosen over the Ellerslie site x number of years ago?

[CMD UW]

Does the Hawrelak name ring a bell. Edmonchuk to elaborate....now!

[IKAN104]

So why was the Leduc county site chosen over the Ellerslie site x number of years ago?

I heard the nephew of some politician owned the land in Leduc. :rolleyes:

[S_B_Russell]

^That can't be true! ;)

[Edmonchuck]

So why was the Leduc county site chosen over the Ellerslie site x number of years ago?

It had to do with wind data, growth plans, noise abatement plans, the fact that the DND and Americans owned Namao, a large tract of land and few owners...nothing at all to do with alleged politicians and their alleged nephew's brother's buddies' cousin's former college roomate owning land...;) or did it.

[Rocket252]

it was a bad decision at the time.

We lost a lot of traffic to Calgary over the past 30 years because of its location and the issues it created with the muni.

[Edmonchuck]

politics and logic are strange bedfellows. However, it is not the location PER SE that is the issue. That is the boogyman, but the devil is in the details.



NO MASS TRANSIT WHATSOEVER. Not even a trolley on CP.
Political bullshit over Leduc County getting tax revenue. Like Ellerslie, Namao and other sites were any better.
Agreeing to the Transport Canada deal, then backing out, pissing off the feds who just so happened to own, gee, I don't know, the bi-laterals and Air Canada??? Naaaaaaah, there is never revenge and petty griping in politics....;)
Not settling on a N-S express route ANYWHERE. 99, Mill Creek, Cal trail N/S, killing the new DT bridge, and other myopic, stupid, assenine, whaaa whaaa whaa whaa whaa whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa my river vaslley view griping and small time thinking.
Putting stoip light after stop light after stop light after stop light after stop light after stop light after....
buying into PWA's business plan
Telling TC once again in 1970 to go eff itself when they "strongly suggested" closing yxd to scheduled traffic.
shall I go on? This debate is more our fault for letting small minded, myopic, and petty thinking get in the way .


The final location would not have an effect overall with all this crap in the way....the land deal suddenly becomes a minor consequence.

[Rocket252]

But the "location of the airport" caused a lot of the problems you mention in your points.

- Leduc County issues
- Transport and transit issues
- N/S express route

I feel if the airport was located closer to the city there would have been more urgency to get the transportation and other issues dealt with.

But it is too late now and we have to deal with the mistakes that were made back then by people with no vision.

[Edmonchuck]

Where else could you suggest it could be? Short of extending the runways at YXD, no matter where you put YEG, it would be an issue. In the city at the time (remember, it was 1955), the noise issues would have killed it.

So, it had to be far enough outside the city. Aka....county.

Sturgeon county, Strathcona county, Parkland county, pick your county. So, county = moot.

Transport and transit - MacKinnon Ravine dead...bye bye west.

97th and the CF that is the downtown access to that...looks eerily familiar to Calgary Trail N/S

METS dead....east dead too.

Transit - wow, this one is a CF all over town!

People at the time weren't going to be happy no matter what you did. ...and you'd think distance would create urgency, not proximity. Even bus service to YXD sucked sucked sucked sucked sucked.

Nope, location is the boogeyman....a very very very easy boogyman. The real reason - ego.

[Rocket252]

Anywhere closer to the city would have been preferable - max 5 miles from the city limits at the most.

After all it is not the Leduc International Airport.

Bad Decision - Bad location

But nothing can be done now. We have to deal with it and that means closing down the Muni, growing the Port Alberta Concept and Getting LRT to YEG ASAP

[240glt]

I think the location of YEG is fine. It takes no longer to get there than it takes to get to any other city airport, plus with all the unutilized land surrounding it, the Port Alberta vision can be made a reality.

People get so bent out of shape because EIA is physically located in Luduc county. Who cares ? Vancouver International Airport is located in Richmond, but you never hear anyone complaining about that!

[lubicon]

I think the location of YEG is fine. It takes no longer to get there than it takes to get to any other city airport, plus with all the unutilized land surrounding it, the Port Alberta vision can be made a reality.

People get so bent out of shape because EIA is physically located in Luduc county. Who cares ? Vancouver International Airport is located in Richmond, but you never hear anyone complaining about that!

Other than the people in Richmond and surrounding areas that bitch about the noise. And that is one very big plus about YEG's location. Other than taking off over Leduc, there are practically no noise restrictions at YEG meaning the airport can function 24/7 with few restrictions. That is a huge plus, especially for cargo. If YEG was closer in to Edmonton there would be more noise issues today. We are already starting to see that at YYC.

[tuffyy]

Closer to the city would have been great but what if it limited the amount of land that we now see open for projects?YEG has the most land of any airport in Canada open for development.And with city quickly stretching south it really is not far atall.

Driving to YYZ for me from my former home took a minimum of 90 minutes on a good day!I will keep my 15-20 minute drive from the Westend anyday...

[Coldrsx]

with AHD YEG is finally "close" to the city IMO and in 10-20 years from now we will be thankful of its location.

What we do need to do is provide public transit (bus then LRT) and have an improved hwy 2 from YEG to the city limits (lighting) along with a HOV lane or taxi/bus lane.

[Edmonchuck]

Seriously,the whole reason why it was built more than 5 miles outside of the city.

Hello DC-8 and 707. ROAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. 5 miles at 170 knots.is not too long to cover...

Plus, you needed room to grow. Look at the land that they have, and it makes sense.

[rapid_business]

Really though? Ideal? I would have thought the Ellerslie location would have been better.... it coulda been the same size, just closer to the city for noise complaints and all. :)

[dansk]

Funny, somethings in Edmonton don't change. You always bitch about the distance and the muni. Sure the distance sucks...and isn't ideal, but it is there and won't move....deal with it.

[rapid_business]

Someone's got a stick up the ass. Calm down. I'm just saying as they initially planned it X number of years ago, the Ellerslie location would have panned out better IMO. Perhaps not, but I'm just tossing the thought around. That's it.

[feepa]

Could you imagine if they had put it at Ellerslie road? We would hear people complaining about noise. The distance issue is not an issue anymore. At least in my mind. Back in the 80's when 34 ave was where you felt the city started, sure that distance seemed long...

[Rocket252]

^ I agree. The Ellerslie location would have been the preferred location. YEG's present location has hurt us more than helped us. It was crazy for a small city like Edmonton to have an airport so far out at that time in its growth. That caused a lot of problems including the ongoing debate between the International and the Muni - the transit issues. It is one of the reasons among many that Calgary has overtaken us and is the true international Airport of this province with passenger loads almost twice ours. Sure it is great now regarding all the space YEG has but at what cost?

[feepa]

6 million pax is still great for a city of this size. If more and more people stop flying from here to Calgary and then to there destination, our airport will soon be on par with YYC

[Edmonchuck]

I will say it again.

Ellerslie, while feasible and closer, would now be saddled by noise abatement. There is no guarantee that YEG won't either, but it is protected.

The BEST choice was Namao - no bridge to build - but it is where it is. The location is a complete and utter boogyman that is about 1/10th of the problem.

Politics and infighting are 9/10ths. No location would be immune from that.

[dansk]

6 million pax is still great for a city of this size. If more and more people stop flying from here to Calgary and then to there destination, our airport will soon be on par with YYC


No it wouldn't.

[ZiZiPop]

No it wouldn't.

Such a well thought out argument. Convinced me!:rolleyes:

I don't think it would be on par because of the corperate travel that Calgary attracts. Also Calgary is a HUB.

However I believe it would be a lot closer (maybe a million). Anyone actually have the numbers for that?

[MalcolmTucker]

Such a well thought out argument. Convinced me!:rolleyes:

I don't think it would be on par because of the corperate travel that Calgary attracts. Also Calgary is a HUB.

However I believe it would be a lot closer (maybe a million). Anyone actually have the numbers for that?

I remember in one of the High speed rail studies, that flights between Calgary and Edmonton amounted to something like 600k people a year.

If you assume 100% of those people are coming through Calgary on connections and being 'stolen' it wouldn't increase Edmonton's pax numbers at all since those people would just be taking flights out of Edmonton, it just might change the mix a bit.

By car, I have never seen a study that shows how significant the loss is. ERAA assumes it is large but only back it up by 'common sense and anecdotal evidence.

I would assume this loss is limited by the size of the parking lots at YYC, which is lets say approximately 5000 spots (just looking at the google maps of the park and fly and park and jet lots there are around 3000 spots, plus 1000 in the parkade. I added the 'extra spots' to inflate the results, since I still think they are much smaller than one would think. )

If even half those spots are used by people from Red Deer north, thats 2500 spots, with lets say an average of 1 week stay (might be high but would account for lower than capacity usage most of the time). Thats 130,000 cars. Being generous at 3 persons per car, that is 390,000 pax. Double counting for inbound and outbound thats 780,000 pax.

In this case, Edmonton may be loosing 1.4 million pax a year to Calgary (600,000 aren't really lost, they are just hubbing through Calgary and are still counted on Edmonton's numbers). Hubbing customers aren't lost, only people that drive to Calgary are lost truely.

I think the loss to Calgary numbers are much lower than what many people at the ERAA and just general Edmontonians think. 3 hours is a long drive, and I would be surprised if the number I predicted isn't even a big overshot.

[Coldrsx]

^i still know many many people who fly thru or out of YYC from Edmonton.

I wouldnt be suprised if it is 750,000-1,000,000 annually.

[feepa]

^i still know many many people who fly thru or out of YYC from Edmonton.

I wouldnt be suprised if it is 750,000-1,000,000 annually.

Me neither. I know of lots of people who'll drive from edmonton area to calgary to catch a flight, I also known of many that are forced to fly through calgary from yeg cause there is no other way, and a lot of the deals on ac or wj make you fly through Calgary as well.

though I don't dispute the numbers has been provided above, I wonder how old those numbers are, and how many people actually drive down to calgary just to fly.

[Coldrsx]

however with that said...we would only say be at 7,000,000 and calgary at 11,000,000....

YYC has significantly more aircraft movement and much larger planes on many routes.

YEG is flying but YYC is a step above

i gots no probs with dat

[Edmonchuck]

In this case, Edmonton may be loosing 1.4 million pax a year to Calgary (600,000 aren't really lost, they are just hubbing through Calgary and are still counted on Edmonton's numbers). Hubbing customers aren't lost, only people that drive to Calgary are lost truely.

I think the loss to Calgary numbers are much lower than what many people at the ERAA and just general Edmontonians think. 3 hours is a long drive, and I would be surprised if the number I predicted isn't even a big overshot.




Actually, in this numbers game, 600,000 passengers = 1.2 Million "passengers" as enplanned and deplanned passengers in hubs are double counted. So, the numeric "loss" is always greater than the actual number of physical beings. That inflates Calgary's numbers.

As for the ERAA numbers, they come from more than anecdotal evidence and common sense. They've commissioned independant studies in the past and have back up information from other sources. The numbers are extrapolated and approximate.


As for 3 hours being "long". 3 hours is the time that I will still drive over fly...given check in, parking, security, etc.

[tuffyy]

Dansk, is clearly from the center of the universe...

Dare I say Calgary!!!

I am sorry your right dansk, we will never ever be anything like you...

LOL.

Oh how fun 2008 is gonna be.

[ZiZiPop]

:tantrum: When is the anouncement?

[Edmonchuck]

just after you explode from anticipation.

[feepa]

just after you explode from anticipation.
I was hoping for just before myself...

[KrisYYC]

Dansk, is clearly from the center of the universe...

Dare I say Calgary!!!

I am sorry your right dansk, we will never ever be anything like you...

LOL.

Oh how fun 2008 is gonna be.

So are you saying that this new announcement will double YEG's passenger numbers??? That's what it would take to be up to par with YYC.

[Plus15]

So are you saying that this new announcement will double YEG's passenger numbers??? That's what it would take to be up to par with YYC.

I don't think this announcement could possibly live up to the hype being generated. These days its practically sounding like YEG will usurp YVR in one fell swoop. :rolleyes:

[jeremy_haak]

I don't think this announcement could possibly live up to the hype being generated. These days its practically sounding like YEG will usurp YVR in one fell swoop. :rolleyes:

Yeah, this announcement is going to have to be quite incredible. I recall awhile ago on another forum, someone apparently had insider knowledge that YEG was supposed to receive a direct flight to FRA in 2007 (or something like that), generating a flurry of talk. Then, lo and behold, 2007 went by and nothing happened. And of course, the guy who knew for a fact that this was happening was nowhere to be found. Ever since then, I've learned to digest this sort of news with a gigantic grain of salt. Until the company (whichever it is) has a news release, it ain't happening.

[rapid_business]

I don't think this announcement could possibly live up to the hype being generated. These days its practically sounding like YEG will usurp YVR in one fell swoop. :rolleyes:

and YYZ...combined. :tup:

[KrisYYC]

Yeah, this announcement is going to have to be quite incredible. I recall awhile ago on another forum, someone apparently had insider knowledge that YEG was supposed to receive a direct flight to FRA in 2007 (or something like that), generating a flurry of talk. Then, lo and behold, 2007 went by and nothing happened. And of course, the guy who knew for a fact that this was happening was nowhere to be found. Ever since then, I've learned to digest this sort of news with a gigantic grain of salt. Until the company (whichever it is) has a news release, it ain't happening.

That was Wolsingerjet over at Airliners.net if I recall correctly. He even bet another user a case of beer :D Of course, since no announcement, and to add insult to injury LH announced YYC-FRA he decided to go into hiding. But I have a hunch he came back with the user name "Flyb"

I know YEGers get mad when other people piss on the party, but there's been so many of these "for sure" announcements regarding YEG that never materialize that it's getting really hard to take any of them even remotely seriously.

I hope YEG gets more flights. The more business to Alberta the better.

Kris

[ZiZiPop]

Funny, the tantrum doesn't work with my daughter either.:)

I don't think anyone expects any anouncment to bring YEG on par with YYC. That would be unreasonable. After all, it took Calgary a few years to go from 6mil to 12mil and I don't think Edmonoton will do it quite as quickly. Will YEG ever pass YYC? Who knows? Not in the near future, but 20 years from now? Maybe.

Most (if not all) of the hype has been generated from speculation and people having fun with the guessing game. Any anouncment that has the potential to make YYC jealous, as hinted at, will only be giving YEG somthing that they don't already have.

[CMD UW]

6 million pax is still great for a city of this size. If more and more people stop flying from here to Calgary and then to there destination, our airport will soon be on par with YYC
On par, no...close the gap, yes. Calgary's larger corporate presence and gateway to the Rockies is a draw that YEG just can't compete with.

[CanadianCentaur]

Apart from a few international flights, about the only thing that I could consider truly incredible off the top of my head is the city and ERAA agreeing to close the damned City Centre Airport much, much sooner than expected.

I don't think anyone expects any anouncment to bring YEG on par with YYC. That would be unreasonable. After all, it took Calgary a few years to go from 6mil to 12mil and I don't think Edmonoton will do it quite as quickly. Will YEG ever pass YYC? Who knows? Not in the near future, but 20 years from now? Maybe.

FYI, YYC was handling 6 million pax/year way back around mid-1995. This means it took about 12 years for YYC to go from 6 million to 12 million. YEG might be even faster, because Alberta's and Edmonton's economies are growing even faster compared to a decade ago.

The EAA's latest prediction is for 9 million pax/year by 2012, so this assumes a growth rate of roughly 615,000 -625,000 pax/year. (yes, that's really lowballing it!) That's at or close to 12 million passenger by 2016, or 8 years from now. I have a feeling that their prediction of 9 million might be a bit conservative, but this is understandable, as a lot can change within the airline industry. But like you said, that doesn't mean YEG will catch up to YYC anytime soon!

[Edmonchuck]

I don't think this announcement could possibly live up to the hype being generated. These days its practically sounding like YEG will usurp YVR in one fell swoop. :rolleyes:

le sigh

People people people, your scope is too narrow!

No one said ANYTHING about usurping. Y'all came to that lil' ol' conclusion by yer lil' selves. It's more about legitimacy, expansion, and becoming a bigger player, and maybe a dominant player in certain areas. From backwater to mainpage.

[IKAN104]

So has the hotel firmed up a construction start date yet?

[rapid_business]

It's more about legitimacy, expansion, and becoming a bigger player, and maybe a dominant player in certain areas. From backwater to mainpage.

I like the sound of that.

[Plus15]

le sigh

People people people, your scope is too narrow!

No one said ANYTHING about usurping. Y'all came to that lil' ol' conclusion by yer lil' selves. It's more about legitimacy, expansion, and becoming a bigger player, and maybe a dominant player in certain areas. From backwater to mainpage.


I'm glad thats cleared up then. I'll get back to blowing my jug and playing the fiddle.

[Edmonchuck]

no, washboards... ;)

Seriously though, I quoted yours since it was the latest in a long string of questions of airline hub moves,taking over other statuses, and becoming Pearson overnight followed by the needed sarcastic comment on how impossible any good news at YEG is.

[Kevin_foster]

I still want Newfangled's space port. :|

[IKAN104]

I still want Newfangled's space port. :|

Anything less ... is uncivilized. (or am I the only one here old enough to remember those commercials?) :)

[ExcaliburKid]

^The SpeedStick ones with Hulk Hogan? haha I definitely remember those

[Kevin_foster]

Anything less ... is uncivilized. (or am I the only one here old enough to remember those commercials?) :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTJd_N-mu1M

[IKAN104]

Oh, they got Bosworth doing them now? I was remembering the Hulk Hogan versions. :D

[Coldrsx]

i still laugh at how it has taken 10 yrs from 1st "proposal" to realistically getting a shovel in the ground for the hotel.

1998-2008

jesus

[Edmonchuck]

That is an easy one...

Again, politics - hello Nisku businesses whining and crying.

Hello the Feds owning the land and investors (especially US lenders) not liking that arrangement at all.

Hello ERAA with multiple irons in the fire, and the inevitable "let's reopen the muni, you know it is a jewel" conversation that derails everything to get its 6 weeks of attention every quarter.

Funny how politics keeps coming up?

[big W]

le sigh

People people people, your scope is too narrow!

No one said ANYTHING about usurping. Y'all came to that lil' ol' conclusion by yer lil' selves. It's more about legitimacy, expansion, and becoming a bigger player, and maybe a dominant player in certain areas. From backwater to mainpage.

Does this announcement have anything to do with large foreign investment into "Port Alberta" or an FTZ?

[Jasper and one o nin]

Edmonton International leads Canadian airports in passenger growth
International passenger traffic up an incredible 85 per cent over 2006

EDMONTON – A record-breaking 6.1 million passengers flew to and from Edmonton International Airport (EIA) in 2007, an increase of 16.3 per cent over 2006.

This is the second year in a row that EIA has led all major Canadian airports in passenger growth. Last year, passenger traffic increased by 15.5 per cent over 2005. In just two years, the airport has served an additional 1.5 million passengers.

“Edmonton International has grown from a small, regional airport to a medium-sized international hub,” said Reg Milley, President and CEO of Edmonton Airports. “The incredible growth in the number of passengers using Edmonton International as their gateway of choice to other destinations is evidence that our airport is coming of age.”

EIA experienced significant growth in passenger volumes across all market segments during 2007, with international growth leading the way at 85.4 per cent, followed by transborder (travel between Canada and the U.S.) at 16.8 per cent, and domestic at 13.5 per cent.

Edmonton International Airport Passenger Statistics 2005 – 2007
2005 2006 % increase 2007 % increase
Domestic 3,772,952 4,349,081 15.2 4,937,099 13.5
Transborder 594,803 693,378 16.6 809,991 16.8
International 143,696 171,533 19.5 318,027 85.4
Total 4,511, 451 5,213,992 15.5 6,065,117 16.3

The impressive growth in international traffic is due in large part to the success of Air Canada’s daily non-stop service between Edmonton and London-Heathrow (U.K.).

The increase in passengers at EIA is impressive even by world standards. Airports Council International reports a 5.7 per cent increase in worldwide passenger volume for the first 11 months of 2007, the most recent statistic available, placing EIA well ahead of global trends.


Emerging regional and international hub
Growth in passengers using EIA as a gateway to connect to other destinations has been particularly strong. In the past 12 months, the number of passengers using the airport as a connection hub to other destinations has increased by 36 per cent from 569,347 connecting passengers over a 12-month period to 774,082 passengers.

Passengers from Grande Prairie, Fort McMurray, Yellowknife and Saskatoon using EIA to connect to other destinations increased by 33 per cent in the past year, following 44 per cent growth the previous year (2006).

Overall, passenger levels (EIA as final destination and connections through EIA combined) from these four important markets increased by 10.6 per cent in the past 12 months.

Capacity increases fuel growth
In 2007, airlines made significant increases to capacity (seats available) to/from EIA. The number of international seats increased by 86 per cent over 2006, followed by transborder with 16 per cent growth, and domestic with nine per cent growth.

Several new non-stop destinations were announced in 2007, bringing the total non-stop destinations served by EIA to 52, including 17 daily non-stops to 10 destinations in the United States. This winter, the airport had its best-ever service to sun destinations, with 26 non-stops per week to 11 destinations in Mexico and the Caribbean.

“We have more air carriers, more non-stop destinations, and higher service levels than at any time in our history,” said Milley. “Airlines have responded to regional demand for air service by increasing capacity and Edmonton and northwestern Canadian travellers are enjoying the best air service in our region’s history.”

2008 outlook remains strong
Edmonton Airports is forecasting above-industry-average passenger growth in 2008, and airlines are expected to continue to add capacity and routes to the Edmonton Region market. Several new or expanded services are already on tap for 2008.

January 7, United Airlines added an additional daily non-stop to San Francisco.
March 30, United Airlines will add an additional daily non-stop to Denver.
May 18, WestJet begins new daily non-stop seasonal service to Ottawa.
May 18, WestJet launches new direct (one-stop via Toronto) service to Quebec City.

[CMD UW]

In the past 12 months, the number of passengers using the airport as a connection hub to other destinations has increased by 36 per cent from 569,347 connecting passengers over a 12-month period to 774,082 passengers.
This is a very important stat.....VERY important.

[Coldrsx]

^agreed and IMO a stat that needs to be reinforced with all parties.

[Rocket252]

Air Canada announced more flights for Ottawa, Toronto and Calgary today but nothing for YEG.

Ironic they did this on the same day YEG had their press release.

Air Canada never surprises me anymore how they treat YEG.

[Edmonchuck]

Neither am I...good thing the ERAA is thinking past them...

[CanadianCentaur]

I could care less about AC, because there's always other carriers from outside Canada. For Texas, there's always AA or Continental, for example. After all, Edmonton Airports has always done the right thing in not worrying about concentrating on AC or WestJet in getting new flights.

[Coldrsx]

regardless how much we hate them or want to ignore them, air canada is IMO the most vital airline at YEG so perhaps we should change our tune...and although they havent treated us like we wanted them to, they have restored some faith.

[EdmTrekker]

regardless how much we hate them or want to ignore them, air canada is IMO the most vital airline at YEG so perhaps we should change our tune...and although they havent treated us like we wanted them to, they have restored some faith.

Change my tune? Here is how I have developed my strategy (posted to C2E)

That is why when I booked Europe this year (last week)- I am flying AC into Heathrow non-stop from YEG - but then have purchased a separate ticket from Lufthansa from Heathrow to Cologne for all of 29 Euros - non-stop. Most travellers flying to Europe don't think this is an option - as most discount carriers (if not all) fly out of Gatwick - but the mainliners also offer cheap fares from HUB cities on separate tickets. If you book on AC they run you into Frankfurt or Munich and then to Cologne but this is through YYC, YVR YYZ and takes much longer, more money etc. While I will go through customs at Heathrow and then check in again, it is cheaper and MUCH faster this way. I would have gone through customs in Frankfurt so what’s the difference? Lufthansa are not the only carrier offering these cheap rates from Heathrow- but you won't see them unless you use skyscanner.net or ebooker.com or check out the websites of the mainliners from Heathrow. I save 6-8 hours minimum, fly when I want on AC, and save $400-500.00 per ticket. I support flying non-stop to Europe on AC - but I enjoy depriving AC of routing me through YYC,YVR,YYZ

[Edmonchuck]

Fly Edmonton First...

[Jasper and one o nin]

Change my tune? Here is how I have developed my strategy (posted to C2E)

That is why when I booked Europe this year (last week)- I am flying AC into Heathrow non-stop from YEG - but then have purchased a separate ticket from Lufthansa from Heathrow to Cologne for all of 29 Euros - non-stop. Most travellers flying to Europe don't think this is an option - as most discount carriers (if not all) fly out of Gatwick - but the mainliners also offer cheap fares from HUB cities on separate tickets. If you book on AC they run you into Frankfurt or Munich and then to Cologne but this is through YYC, YVR YYZ and takes much longer, more money etc. While I will go through customs at Heathrow and then check in again, it is cheaper and MUCH faster this way. I would have gone through customs in Frankfurt so what’s the difference? Lufthansa are not the only carrier offering these cheap rates from Heathrow- but you won't see them unless you use skyscanner.net or ebooker.com or check out the websites of the mainliners from Heathrow. I save 6-8 hours minimum, fly when I want on AC, and save $400-500.00 per ticket. I support flying non-stop to Europe on AC - but I enjoy depriving AC of routing me through YYC,YVR,YYZ

I did the exact same thing last year. except Alitalia to Rome - it was around 120 euro round trip

[KrisYYC]

Here we go again :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[tuffyy]

Ahheeemmmm...

As a member of the cool-aid drinkers at the EAA, we are thinking past Air Canada and I am not complaining about AC's continued growth at YYC, good for them!!!

[dansk]

LOL^ People don't realize how much Air Canada is vital to Edmonton. How would you increase service out of Edmonton with out sacrificing the hub system? Sorry but the more you know about Air Canada and West Jet the more you realize that YEG is being treated extremly fair.