[Waders]

That is exactly it. This is not a Translink project. It is a project dreamed up by the city of Vancouver and people are now throwing rocks at Translink for not swooping down and picking it up as their own project with the highest priority. Translink has many of their own transit projects and initiatives to worry about currently.

Of course I also support the street car and feel if the city wants it they should fund and build it, but Translink should then integrate it into the system.

Nothing against streetcar, but as far as I know, public transport is the responsibility of Translink. I have no idea why City of Vancouver would want to dictate what is a priority. Translink has just said today the UBC line extension is on hold because there is no money. They are still trying to find out how to fill the funding gap for the Evergreen Line project.
So unless the city knows how to print money, tax the citizens or able to find a rich 'donor', the streetcar will be 'mothballed' indefinitely if not 'dead' after the Winter Game.

[SpongeG]

well West Vancouver has its own Blue Bus system - Vancouver could have its own system too

Coquitlam in the late 90's was looking at starting its own bus service because transit was so bad for the area

[Waders]

well West Vancouver has its own Blue Bus system - Vancouver could have its own system too

Coquitlam in the late 90's was looking at starting its own bus service because transit was so bad for the area

Ah, I forgot about West Vancouver's Blue Bus. A decade ago I actually had the wrong impression they belongs to Translink. They still work very closely with Translink though. And I am not sure their operation is as cost effective as it should be.
I think a good and integrated transport system in the region should be done by a regional organization like Translink or the Ministry of Transport. Otherwise they might not integrate well.
Unfortunately Translink's structure is not work well at all. I find it funny that Translink said they haven't find all the money required for Everygreen line project and yet Ministry of Transportation is going full stream ahead with the initial design and public consulation process.

[Rusty Gull]

Please - stop quoting Portland - the ridership is not that good and other than downtown it has had very little effect in shaping the city.

If anything, quote Calgary C-train as a much better LRT model.

Are you referring to Portland's LRT or streetcar? They are two different things, you know. There is no parallel between Vancouver's streetcar and Calgary's C-Train. They serve two entirely different functions.

Not that I want to spell it out for you, but here goes: A streetcar and LRT are not the same thing.

In the bigger scheme of things, Portland is probably an appropriate comparison.

[Okstate]

If Vancouver can embrace streetcars as PDX has (with two separate lines set to open in a few years.) you all will be in great shape. Now if only we could emulate TOD like you guys have...

[metroXpress]

^ I would love to see the PDX style of streetcar...what a gem!!

[agrant]

The ones we are using for the demo, from Brussels, are not too shabby. They seem pretty versatile, and I like the seating layout.

[paradigm4]

The federal and provincial governments CANNOT fund the streetcar, even if they wanted to, without TransLink's support, because TransLink controls all public transit-directed funding from senior governments. In other words, the streetcar is caught in a vicious cycle of zero-funding as long as it is given the cold shoulder by TransLink.

And those stimulus bucks from Ottawa? Well, they went to other parts of the country.

We received our fair share of stimulus. A large amount of which went to the SFPR, as well as additional funding for Evergreen.

The federal and provincial governments CAN fund whatever they want. TransLink is simply an authority with the deemed responsibility of planning and operating certain regional roads and transit operations. There is absolutely no legislation saying that TransLink controls any and all money that is destined for transport in the Metro.

If Vancouver can embrace streetcars as PDX has (with two separate lines set to open in a few years.) you all will be in great shape. Now if only we could emulate TOD like you guys have...

Ultimately, I believe this is the solution.

The City of Portland wanted to build a streetcar, but it's regional authority Tri-Met didn't want to fund it. So, the City itself got together the money and built the thing, while Tri-Met was willing to aid in dealing with the fare infrastructure. They are still two separate entities, but work together in unison for residents. The streetcar has proved to be an investment and economic stimulus for the City, as it has aided in $2 billion worth of redevelopment in what is now Portland's Yaletown; the Pearl District.

[deasine]

The City of Portland wanted to build a streetcar, but it's regional authority Tri-Met didn't want to fund it. So, the City itself got together the money and built the thing, while Tri-Met was willing to aid in dealing with the fare infrastructure. They are still two separate entities, but work together in unison for residents. The streetcar has proved to be an investment and economic stimulus for the City, as it has aided in $2 billion worth of redevelopment in what is now Portland's Yaletown; the Pearl District.

That's exactly the case that could happen here.

Notice, Portland is also rolling out it's incredibly aggressive plan to expand the Streetcar system. I have to say the projected ridership is quite low, but fair considering Metro Portland is still quite an automobile dependent city, despite the fact that it's better than most American cities.

On September 9th, a massive report was released documenting a variety of ideas regarding the master plan of the streetcar network in the coming years. There is an impressive amount of lines that are being proposed, on various levels of priority. All costs and resulting effects of each line are explored in great detail, from potential ridership to neighborhood impact.

You can go here to download and view the impressive 100 page document in its entirety.

http://www.portlandonline.com/Transportation/index.cfm?c=46134

Here is a glimpse into the document:


Green- 1st level corridor, Orange- 2nd level corridor, Red- 3rd level corridor
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2531/3969572320_d08e97bfe0.jpg

1st level corridor line designations
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2516/3969602974_a3cbd3b461.jpg

Concept Corridors and Comprehensive Corridors
System with Loop, Lake Oswego and Concept Corridors= 31.7 Miles
Total System with Comprehensive Corridors= 72.8 Miles
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3435/3968851855_85863875fc.jpg


CONCEPT PLAN INDIVIDUAL ROUTE BREAKDOWN
(All cost projections are in 2009 dollars)

NW 23rd TO HOLLYWOOD (2.0 miles new track construction)
Cost: $60-70 Million (includes 6 new vehicles)
2035 Ridership Projections: 6,600/day
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2559/3968874615_5a2bd4d0a8.jpg

KILLINGSWORTH TO RIVERPLACE (3.3 miles new track construction)
Cost: $60-70 Million (includes 6 new vehicles)
2035 Ridership Projections: 3,200/day
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2456/3969667466_16c2a42d0a.jpg

THURMAN TO HOLLYWOOD TC (4.7 miles new track construction)
Cost:
NW 18/19th - $30-40 Million (includes 2 new vehicles)
Burnside/Couch - $90-100 Million (includes 6 new vehicles)
Sandy - $65-75 Million (includes 4 new vehicles)
2035 Ridership Projections: 10,000/day
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2449/3969693164_b676dc2888.jpg

LAKE OSWEGO CORRIDOR TO TACOMA ST MAX STATION (1.5 miles new track construction)
Cost: $60-70 Million (includes 2 new vehicles)
2035 Ridership Projections: 1,700/day
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3511/3969722020_d827f9f5b5.jpg

GOOSE HOLLOW MAX STATION TO 50TH (4.7 miles new track construction)
Cost: $170 to 190 million (includes 10 new vehicles)
2035 Ridership Projections: N/A
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2542/3969737418_141164ee02.jpg

GATEWAY TC TO MAIN/99TH (1.9 miles new track construction)
Cost: $60-70 Million (includes 4 vehicles)
2035 Ridership Projections: 1,000/day
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2584/3968979149_9d218a1dab.jpg


This is just a small glimpse into this document. There is great detail looking into every conceptual route and every possible impact. I think these ridership projections are extremely underestimated (when looking ahead to 2035), especially when you see how the starter line exploded way above their expectations in ridership.
From SSP: Portland

[SpongeG]

Ah, I forgot about West Vancouver's Blue Bus. A decade ago I actually had the wrong impression they belongs to Translink. They still work very closely with Translink though. And I am not sure their operation is as cost effective as it should be.
I think a good and integrated transport system in the region should be done by a regional organization like Translink or the Ministry of Transport. Otherwise they might not integrate well.
Unfortunately Translink's structure is not work well at all. I find it funny that Translink said they haven't find all the money required for Everygreen line project and yet Ministry of Transportation is going full stream ahead with the initial design and public consulation process.

there is federal money involved and I think if the province didn't act on it right away the feds would pull their money - better to use it than not

VGH stood as an empty shell for years because they had been given funding to do the building but not the interior so they built it and it stood unused for many years and slowly as more funding came along they fitted it out - my sister was a nurse there and her unit was one of the first put into it - she said it was weird cause it was so empty

[officedweller]

The streetcar can now whistle in emergencies at Moberley Road:

http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/20091103/documents/a5.pdf

[BCPhil]

The streetcar can now whistle in emergencies at Moberley Road:

http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/20091103/documents/a5.pdf

Haha, for some reason an Anti-Whistle blowing bylaw seems so BC appropriate (with all the obvious puns and jabs intended).

[kylemacmac]

I think we should look at getting high capacity streetcars on the Burrard Street Bridge and Granville Street Bridge as soon as possible. This would really send a message that quality public transit is a priority and people's mental maps of transit in the city could be cemented to awesome fixed systems and stations....along colorful lines on a map. Wow, do people ever enjoy taking transit when it's on simple to understand colorful lines that show the location of a frequent service mode. You know what would be a popular streetcar line? Granville Street. From Broadway to Waterfront. Especially when the UBC skytrain makes Broadway/Granville an even more major transfer location.

[kylemacmac]

Um, maybe because it's a freakin' pipe dream in the heads of the HO scale crowd that have no sense of the lack of economics behind running a system like this through this part of the city.

Yeah, it'd be kinda nice to see a streetcar down Robson...or Granville, or some other axis in the central part of downtown that people actually travel along. And could help fund itself.

[raggedy13]

I think it would be perfect if they had a route that circulated around the West End, something like Davie>Denman>Robson. I imagine it would be super popular with residents and really compliment the vibe of the neighbourhood.

[Rusty Gull]

I think we should look at getting high capacity streetcars on the Burrard Street Bridge and Granville Street Bridge as soon as possible. This would really send a message that quality public transit is a priority and people's mental maps of transit in the city could be cemented to awesome fixed systems and stations....along colorful lines on a map. Wow, do people ever enjoy taking transit when it's on simple to understand colorful lines that show the location of a frequent service mode. You know what would be a popular streetcar line? Granville Street. From Broadway to Waterfront. Especially when the UBC skytrain makes Broadway/Granville an even more major transfer location.

Pardon my naievete, but could the streetcar operate on Granville's existing trolley lines? I do like the idea of having the streetcar run down Granville... Much better than buses!

[deasine]

Pardon my naievete, but could the streetcar operate on Granville's existing trolley lines? I do like the idea of having the streetcar run down Granville... Much better than buses!

They could, but it's not common to have trolley wires for streetcars. But since streetcars don't run at high speeds anyway, I think trolley wires should be fine.

[Rusty Gull]

Well, then (and thank you for the feedback), let me be the first to advocate for booting the buses off Granville back onto Seymour, to make way for a streetcar running up and down Granville. That would be an amazing sight, and would truly transform the neighbourhood for the better.

[Metro-One]

To bad street cars running up and down Granville were not part of the Granville Mall design. I think Granville would be a great street for streetcars.

[jlousa]

Would prefer to see the streetcars along all of Davie and Cordova, leave the buses on Seymour and Howe thus leaving Granville transit free but reopened to cars (for now). The stretch isn't that long and it's best for businesses that it's walked, not ridden past on a tram. With no transit on it, it would be very easy to close down to traffic for events.

[Metro-One]

That is a good point.

[SpongeG]

Would prefer to see the streetcars along all of Davie and Cordova, leave the buses on Seymour and Howe thus leaving Granville transit free but reopened to cars (for now). The stretch isn't that long and it's best for businesses that it's walked, not ridden past on a tram. With no transit on it, it would be very easy to close down to traffic for events.

I agree i like the way the busses are working now and have granville as is bus free

[Rusty Gull]

Unfortunately, it won't happen. TransLink has invested much $$ into the Granville redesign, and thus will be insistent that the buses go down Granville.
I would love to see a true, pedestrians-only mall, but it isn't going to happen for a long, long time -- at least if TransLink is going to have a say in the matter.

[kylemacmac]

Unfortunately, it won't happen. TransLink has invested much $$ into the Granville redesign, and thus will be insistent that the buses go down Granville.
I would love to see a true, pedestrians-only mall, but it isn't going to happen for a long, long time -- at least if TransLink is going to have a say in the matter.

But where are they going to hold the festivals every weekend when the buses start running again?

[s211]

let me be the first to advocate for booting the buses off Granville back onto Seymour, to make way for a streetcar running up and down Granville. That would be an amazing sight, and would truly transform the neighbourhood for the better.

Uh,riiiiiiiiight. Flowers will be more colourful, children will smile more, bunnies will hump more often and ice cream costs will go down.

Seriously.

[DKaz]

I hate how the buses aren't on Granville, it sucks having to go all the way to Richards to catch a #5 or 6. I can't wait for them to return to the Mall.

[Rusty Gull]

Uh,riiiiiiiiight. Flowers will be more colourful, children will smile more, bunnies will hump more often and ice cream costs will go down.

Seriously.

That's right s211. Aim low. This way, you'll always exceed expectations. If we plan for mediocrity, Vancouver can fulfill your wish for it - to be an "Edmonton on the coast".

[Rusty Gull]

I hate how the buses aren't on Granville, it sucks having to go all the way to Richards to catch a #5 or 6. I can't wait for them to return to the Mall.

I don't understand why the 5 or 6 can't travel south down Howe. For a city that is supposedly going green, there is way too much capacity for cars downtown.

Streetcar future notwithstanding, Granville should be pedestrians-only, and the buses should utilize the one-way streets that run adjacenet.

[bulliver]

That's right s211. Aim low. This way, you'll always exceed expectations. If we plan for mediocrity, Vancouver can fulfill your wish for it - to be an "Edmonton on the coast".

Hey now...speaking of low, as in below the belt. We are well aware of our own shortcomings, thanks. Happy we can be your example of what not to do...

As for Granville, what's the ratio of trolleys to diesel buses? Perhaps there could be a compromise. Trolleys only on Granville to enhance the street vibe, and keep the diesels to Howe and Seymour.

[officedweller]

It was the businesses on Granville that originally wanted to open up the street to traffic - leading to the revitalization study whiich concluded that transit capacity needed to be maintained so no cars would be allowed.
Then came the Canada Line construction and the closure of Granville to transit vehicles too (diverted to Howe & Seymour) - and the businesses complained.

Anyone know if the City monitored the businesses on Granville in the absence of transit on Granville Mall?

[trofirhen]

I don't understand why the 5 or 6 can't travel south down Howe. For a city that is supposedly going green, there is way too much capacity for cars downtown.

Streetcar future notwithstanding, Granville should be pedestrians-only, and the buses should utilize the one-way streets that run adjacenet.

Precisely!

[Rusty Gull]

Hey now...speaking of low, as in below the belt. We are well aware of our own shortcomings, thanks. Happy we can be your example of what not to do...

I was being unduly harsh on Edmonton. If only this city had its sports tradition, its civic values, its business climate. But I will take a pass on its vision of mass transit.

As for Granville, what's the ratio of trolleys to diesel buses? Perhaps there could be a compromise. Trolleys only on Granville to enhance the street vibe, and keep the diesels to Howe and Seymour..

Ugh. You reminded me that there will be diesel buses running up and down Granville -- ie, the #50. How embarrassing. Almost as shameful as the stale pizza they sell there for a buck a slice. But your right, at the very least the diesels should be given the boot.

[bulliver]

^ S'OK, man, you're right, and we're used to it ;)

[officedweller]

FRom the Courier -
I'm not quite clear on what the wire is used for. It says it will be covered in concrete - so its not overhead caternary wire just sittng around.
Maybe it's to take stray current away from the rails?
(Apparently stray current is an issue with LRT systems so modern LRT rails have insulators under them to prevent stray current from entering the ground and causing corrosion of underground water pipes, etc.)

Thieves pilfer Olympic Line copper
False Creek resident criticizes project cost, security

Janaya Fuller-Evans
Special to Vancouver Courier

Friday, November 13, 2009

Concord Security Corporation is guarding the Olympic Line 24 hours a day after thieves stole copper wire from the construction site.

The ground wire was taken from the 1.8 kilometre tramcar line, where it was being used for underground electrical wiring.

The city's Olympic transportation director, Dale Bracewell, could not say how much wire had been stolen but said it was a significant enough problem to require full-time security.

"It's a sad story," Bracewell said. "We're just in the process of getting it all ready."

The Vancouver Police Department is investigating the thefts, he added.

Concrete coverings will be poured over the areas where underground electrical work is being done within the next few weeks. The track will be activated in the near future, Bracewell said, adding he was worried that people attempting to steal wire could be injured. The contractor covered the cost to replace the wire, but the additional security cost is covered by the $8.5 million budget for the project.

Signs will be erected along the track once it is activated and security guards are no longer patrolling the area, Bracewell added.

Two Flexity Outlook streetcars, on loan from Brussels, Belgium and sponsored by Bombardier Transportation Canada, are scheduled to arrive in early December. Security will monitor the trains from midnight to 6 a.m., according to Bracewell, but there will not be any additional security for the line once construction is complete. Police will patrol the area as part of the city's Olympic security commitment.

Gordon Robertson, a False Creek resident, thinks patrolling the tracks during construction is unnecessary and the project could have been planned better. "I think the whole thing's a farce," Robertson said. "Those of us living near False Creek, we shake our heads."

The cost of the Olympic Line is too much for such a little section of track, he added. "It is the best section of track in town."

Robertson has seen equipment along the track, and said he thinks security could be better managed if expensive materials were not left out. "There was rail inspection equipment just sitting there."

The Olympic Line runs from Granville Island to Cambie Street, along historic tram tracks. The tramline has had problems with copper wire theft in the past, as mentioned in the Courier in June 2006. Replacing the copper wire--which connected the tracks--cost about $40,000 in repair costs at the time. The estimated street value of the wire was $1,000. The line was leased by the City of Vancouver to the Transit Museum Society until construction began this year. After the track renewal is complete, the line will be able to run both heritage and modern tramcars.

The demonstration streetcar line is part of the City of Vancouver's plans for a downtown streetcar project in the future. The 60-day demonstration will be free for riders and run from 6:30 a.m. to 12:30 a.m. from Jan. 21 to March 21, 2010. Once the demonstration is complete, the streetcars will be shipped back to Belgium.

The proposed Downtown Streetcar project would connect Granville Island, Gastown and Chinatown via streetcar routes.

janayafe@gmail.com

© Vancouver Courier 2009

[nname]

The Olympic Line would be numbered as Route 979...
Eastbound Schedule (http://tripplanning.translink.ca/hiwire?LineDirId=147550&.a=iHeadwaySheet)
Westbound Schedule (http://tripplanning.translink.ca/hiwire?LineDirId=147551&.a=iHeadwaySheet)

Click on the link on Monday-Friday to see weekday schedule, Saturday to see Saturday schedule, and Sunday to see Sunday schedule
So.. currently, only Saturday schedule is shown :D

[jsbertram]

The Olympic Line would be numbered as Route 979...
Eastbound Schedule (http://tripplanning.translink.ca/hiwire?LineDirId=147550&.a=iHeadwaySheet)
Westbound Schedule (http://tripplanning.translink.ca/hiwire?LineDirId=147551&.a=iHeadwaySheet)

Click on the link on Monday-Friday to see weekday schedule, Saturday to see Saturday schedule, and Sunday to see Sunday schedule
So.. currently, only Saturday schedule is shown :D

8 minutes to go from Granville St to Cambie St?
WTF?!?
Using dedicated rails, and no other stop, and no traffic interference except crossing Moberly Rd?
Really?!?

The 84 in Rush Hour traffic makes the same Granville / Cambie run in 3 minutes.

The 50 makes the same run, including the loop at Heather Square and waiting for the lights at Moberly & 6th) in only 6 minutes.

If CoV was serious about showing this off as a better solution to buses, AT LEAST they should run as fast as the buses they want to compete against.

This may be fine for a lookie-looo demonstrator, but wouldn't fly in the real world.

[SFUVancouver]

Looking at the west-bound schedule the travel time appears to be seven minutes. This is also just a guess on Translink's part. The model of streetcar was not even known when they built the foundation for the station at the Granville Island end of the run. The tram will be 33 metres long, the foundation looks to be maybe 12-15metres in length.

Plus don't forget that Translink hates this Olympic Streetcar. They fought it tooth and nail and refused to allow fare integration, which is why it is running as a free service. I wouldn't put it past Translink to overestimate the travel time rather than underestimate it. I also wouldn't be surprised if that time difference affects what mode shows up in its trip planner.

Also, December 5th is the arrival day for the streetcars. There will be a press event. More details to come.

[BCPhil]

I think that is a bit of a over estimation on travel time. But even if it is a bit accurate, it's still very efficient. These 2 streetcars during the Olympics will be great for what they are doing: taking people to/from Granville Island. They'll be more efficient than 5 or 6 buses doing the same thing, and won't get stuck in any Olympic Traffic.

Now if only they had a Streetcar between the Canada Line and the Olympic Oval in Richmond or the Canada Line and the Curling rink.

[Yume-sama]

So, how long will it take, supposedly, to go from OV - Granville Island?

Is the station right nearby the Olympic Village skytrain station?

[metroXpress]

^ Good question. I hope they don't put it somewhere else and, on the map, tell people to walk for 2 mins to transfer. (Just like what they did with Granville and VanCity Centre)


There is also one at Science World, where you can transfer to Expo Line :)

[nname]

^ Good question. I hope they don't put it somewhere else and, on the map, tell people to walk for 2 mins to transfer. (Just like what they did with Granville and VanCity Centre)


There is also one at Science World, where you can transfer to Expo Line :)

No, they treat it as a direct transfer, but they made the distance of the streetcar trip really really long, as if it goes to "MacDonald Island" :D

The map:
http://www.translink.ca/~/media/Images/content/olympics/maps/ctl_olympic_transit_map.ashx

[BCPhil]

The streetcar platform is being built (probably done by now) directly to the North of the Station. It will be a very short walk across a parking lot, or down a small bikepath/greeway. I think the city is setting up a nice path that will take people from OV station, past the Streetcar platform (as the historic railroad will operate their vintage interurbans on the line in the summer) and on to the Seawall. It should be very nice when it's all done.

[jsbertram]

^ Good question. I hope they don't put it somewhere else and, on the map, tell people to walk for 2 mins to transfer. (Just like what they did with Granville and VanCity Centre)


There is also one at Science World, where you can transfer to Expo Line :)

In this google map you can see the outline of the C-Line Olympic station (under construction when this was taken), with the demo streetcar rail track running diagonally north of the C-Line station and under the Cambie bridge.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=vancouver,bc&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=29.910058,56.513672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Vancouver,+Greater+Vancouver+Regional+District,+British+Columbia,+Canada&ll=49.266873,-123.114853&spn=0.000751,0.002747&t=k&z=19&iwloc=0x548673dc178fe6d3:0xd1abe8cc74e1570f

Because of the Oly village construction most of 1st Ave between Cambie and Quebec was ripped up and rebuilt. The old streetcar track was also ripped up to make 1st Ave wider, but a new track will be laid in the boulevard between WB and EB 1st Ave traffic.

Since 1st Ave and the Oly village are closed security zones, the new tracks will be done after the Olys are over. The track & station along Quebec at Science World are orphaned until the 1st Ave track is in place & connects again to the Granville-Cambie Demo line and Quebec track.

[Rusty Gull]

Plus don't forget that Translink hates this Olympic Streetcar. They fought it tooth and nail and refused to allow fare integration, which is why it is running as a free service. I wouldn't put it past Translink to overestimate the travel time rather than underestimate it. I also wouldn't be surprised if that time difference affects what mode shows up in its trip planner.


I'm not arguing with you on this point, but wouldn't that be called sabotage? TransLink is really doing a disservice to the region by stonewalling this project.

[allan_kuan]

This sort of brings us back to some of the reasons why Vancouver is in charge of the project and not TransLink:

- TransLink has almost no money to spend on the project
- The streetcar competes with several bus routes in the area, particularly the 50
- TransLink doesn't want to be seen as dedicating all its money to Vancouver and not to needy areas like South of Fraser

[officedweller]

Posted by WK Lis over at UrbanToronto:

Bombardier video of the streetcars being loaded:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9INMS9u8lg

[zivan56]

Nice find. Why is it going to Tacoma first??? Wouldn't it have to go through import procedures twice and a longer distance due to offloading/border/etc?
It's not like its being shipped to some Eastern port.

Is shipping through there+trucking it up here really *that* much cheaper?

[officedweller]

I think there was an article earlier that said that the ship could not be unloaded in Vancouver for some reason - maybe container size or something.

Found it:


September 25, 2009

Bombardier streetcars land in Tacoma before Vancouver

Olympic trains to arrive in December

By BOB MACKIN, 24 HOURS

Vancouver’s 2010 Streetcars will be unloaded at the Port of Tacoma instead of VANOC sponsor Port Metro Vancouver’s docks.

The two 32-metre Bombardier Flexity vehicles from Brussels are being shipped from Bremen, Germany through the Panama Canal for arrival in the first week of December. Bombardier spokeswoman Kathryn Nickerson said logistics giant Prangl ships to Tacoma, not Vancouver.

“Ours is only a small part of their cargo.” she said. “We’ve used them for many years and they ship our freight all over the world.”

The streetcars will run Jan. 21 to March 21 on new $9 million tracks from Granville Island to the Canada Line’s Olympic Village station.

[Rusty Gull]

This sort of brings us back to some of the reasons why Vancouver is in charge of the project and not TransLink:

- TransLink has almost no money to spend on the project

No, but the federal government did have money to spend on it when they were looking for stimulus projects. Unfortunately, since government funding for all transit projects go through TransLink, the project received nothing.


- The streetcar competes with several bus routes in the area, particularly the 50

The combination of Canada Line and streetcar renders the #50 obsolete.


- TransLink doesn't want to be seen as dedicating all its money to Vancouver and not to needy areas like South of Fraser

See discussion in UBC Skytrain thread about relationship between urban density and investment in public transit.

[BCPhil]

Personally I think the #50 bus is the most horrible route in the city. I take transit all the time, but when I see it, I'm never sure of where it's going or how long it will take me just to get to Granville Island. And for tourists, the bus says nothing of Granville Island, and I think if you catch it at OV Station it says it is going downtown (how helpful). And where is the best place to catch it near the OV station? Walk across the road where I think the bus then loops around to Broadway, or walk over to leg and boot (and who would know that?).

I think most people just take any bus over the Granville bridge and then walk.

The difference between the 50 and the streetcar would be that the Streetcar would hit a lot of good tourists stops, in a fairly straight, logical line. It would go from Waterfront through Gastown and Chinatown, down Quebec street (past Main Street Station and Science World) through the Olympic Village, past OV Station, and to Granville island. It's a fairly different, more entertainment and leisurely oriented route.

If it were extended to Stanley park on one end and Vanier Park on the other, it would a single line could take tourists to most of the Vancouver sightseeing points in one trip. And that is just the tourists potential, locals could use it for their own leisure trips while out shopping and dinning (or to and from work for those in Gastown, Coal Harbour and Olympic Village).

[jsbertram]

...

If it were extended to Stanley park on one end and Vanier Park on the other, it would a single line could take tourists to most of the Vancouver sightseeing points in one trip. And that is just the tourists potential, locals could use it for their own leisure trips while out shopping and dinning (or to and from work for those in Gastown, Coal Harbour and Olympic Village).

It's my understanding that the streetcar track(s) will continue west on Cordova after passing through Gastown, past Waterfront station (making connections to the SkyTrain, SeaBus and WCE), continue west on Cordova, do a jog on Bute to Pender, Pender to Cardero, another jog on Cardero to Georgia, and then along the north edge of Georgia to Stanley Park (more likely Lost Lagoon).

This is after the initial tracks from Granville Island, Olympic Village, Science World, Chinatown and Gastown are installed and in use for a while.

[WarrenC12]

If it were extended to Stanley park on one end and Vanier Park on the other, it would a single line could take tourists to most of the Vancouver sightseeing points in one trip. And that is just the tourists potential, locals could use it for their own leisure trips while out shopping and dinning (or to and from work for those in Gastown, Coal Harbour and Olympic Village).

Yes, there's great potential for that line. I just hope it doesn't get dropped by Translink after the Olympics.

[twoNeurons]

What a gorgeous tram.
http://www.railway-technology.com/contractor_images/bombardier/1-Brussels-metro.jpg

[flight_from_kamakura]

If it were extended to Stanley park on one end and Vanier Park on the other, it would a single line could take tourists to most of the Vancouver sightseeing points in one trip. And that is just the tourists potential, locals could use it for their own leisure trips while out shopping and dinning (or to and from work for those in Gastown, Coal Harbour and Olympic Village).

exactly. it's just too much of a good idea not to do.

[WarrenC12]

What a gorgeous tram.


How big will our street car be? Certainly nothing that size right?

[mr.x]

How big will our street car be? Certainly nothing that size right?

Our streetcar is exactly the same one you see there. And I believe it's 34-metres long...same length as a 2-car Mark II and not far off from the Canada Line trains.

[WarrenC12]

Our streetcar is exactly the same one you see there. And I believe it's 34-metres long...same length as a 2-car Mark II and not far off from the Canada Line trains.

So more like half the length of what we see there (which actually goes way off the picture). Just checking. :)

[twoNeurons]

How big will our street car be? Certainly nothing that size right?

You can see the whole thing in the video officedweller posted:
S9INMS9u8lg

[WarrenC12]

Nice, can't wait to check it out.

Still having trouble being in agreement with the LRT zombies on this one. :cheers:

[Zassk]

So more like half the length of what we see there (which actually goes way off the picture). Just checking. :)

The train ends about 5 feet beyond the right edge of the picture... that is the actual 34 meter train.

[Vancity]

I'm pretty excited to see the streetcar come to Vancouver :) Too bad it's only going to be here for 2 months, and then it goes back to Belgium. Those are nice looking streetcars. Wish we'd have something like that permanently over here.

[BCPhil]

What a gorgeous tram.
http://www.railway-technology.com/contractor_images/bombardier/1-Brussels-metro.jpg

It is pretty nice, but the great thing about these Bombardier trains is that the exterior is completely customizable to meet the visual needs of clients. Every Flexity system implemented looks different. It's a neat touch. The mock ups for the trams in Toronto really evoke the image of their current streetcars. And I think we could design an even better look than this that would fit in well with the feeling of Vancouver.

A simple google image search returns many different designs
http://images.google.ca/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=bombardier+flexity&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=uHwVS5LCEJOusgOtweCEBA&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBAQsAQwAA

I could see something like this travelling down Water Street in Gastown past the Steam Clock.
http://hampage.hu/trams/TdT2/04050102.JPG
source: http://hampage.hu/trams/TdT2/e_graz.html
(Flexity Outlook in Graz, Austria)

And here is the Toronto Design
http://www.webcitation.org/getfile?fileid=46dc9498d964a8f0bfb42c7f28184c03c84d0b43
Source: Bombardier's bid.

[flight_from_kamakura]

ugh, there should be a forum rule that explicitly prohibits the posting of images as nice as the one of the streetcar in austria. it's really too depressing.

[BCPhil]

It would be nice to have Flexity Streetcars in downtown, and on weekends in the summer supplement their service with our heritage streetcars/interurbans. It would be an amazing sight for tourists just stepping off a cruise ship or Canada Line from the Airport.

[jsbertram]

I'm pretty excited to see the streetcar come to Vancouver :) Too bad it's only going to be here for 2 months, and then it goes back to Belgium. Those are nice looking streetcars. Wish we'd have something like that permanently over here.

Now you know why Bombardier wants this demo train here for the Olympics:

a) They can show off their system to visiting govt officials who are here for the Olys and also thinking of new or updated streetcars /trams /trollies /lrts for 'back home'

b) It gets Vancouverites revved up to build the Downtown Streetcar system PDQ.

Straight out of "Marketing 101"

[Metro-One]

I still really wish that these two trams were being bought, not loaned, and that the short demo was a permanent regular transit feature after the Olympics (akin to Ottawa's demo O-train line). Even if the train only ran from Olympic Village (making a hub with the C-Line) to Granville Island it would still get lots of regular use.

[jsbertram]

I still really wish that these two trams were being bought, not loaned, and that the short demo was a permanent regular transit feature after the Olympics (akin to Ottawa's demo O-train line). Even if the train only ran from Olympic Village (making a hub with the C-Line) to Granville Island it would still get lots of regular use.

After the Olympics, when the 1st Ave track is put in & connects to the Granville-Cambie demo track and to the Quebec St track again, the heritage streetcars will use this track to keep interest going until the rest of the downtown segment (Chinatown, Gastown, Waterfront Stn.) is built.

Even if the City gave approval today to purchase the cars & start construction in March 2010, we'd likely have to wait for Toronto's order to be fulfilled first.

I've heard a stop-gap might be to get a half-dozen of Toronto's almost-retired streetcars lightly refurbished so they can to run for five or ten years out here while we wait for our new Bombardier cars to arrive (which will be after 2018 when Toronto gets all of their new streetcar fleet).

Who knows ... if the recession causes a transit system to go bankrupt or cancel their order, we might pick up some Bombardier cars on the cheap ...

[officedweller]

Or we buy Skoda streetcars because Bombardier can't deliver within the time frame we want.

[Locked In]

^ I entirely agree with OD. If the City/Translink decides to go ahead with this, it would be absurd to wait almost 10 years for work to start on our streetcars solely because Toronto has an order in. That said, I rather doubt Bombardier would say "sure, we'll have the trains ready for you in a decade" if we placed a big order - is the Toronto order really taking up all their production capacity?

[twoNeurons]

Or we buy Skoda streetcars because Bombardier can't deliver within the time frame we want.

Since VAG (VW) owns Skoda... does that mean we can have trams in the shape of the VW Minibus? ;)

EDIT: Apparently, VW only owns Skoda Auto.

[SpongeG]

Olympic streetcars from Europe arrive Monday

has video at link: http://www.bclocalnews.com/news/78373627.html

[deasine]

Great to see.

[officedweller]

I can't see there being any negatives from the trial.
It's on its own ROW (so it can pick up speed) and there is only one level crossing on the trial route (low risk of crashes).
There may be some overcrowding - but that can be chalked up to the Olympics.

Incidentally - look what they're discussing over at Urban Toronto regarding the St Clair Streetcar ROW:

Come Dec 20, we get a chance to take a wacky ride on the eastbound great track work from Westmount Ave to Glenholme Ave.

I have call this section the section design by a drunken sailor. There were a lot of red flags put on the work by inspectors in regard to the construction of this section, but were ignored to get this ROW built on time.

This section sees no straight track work at all considering it was very straight before construction.

Between the City and the contractor, various sections were almost a foot off out of alignment since they were built at different times. The contractor was blaming TTC for putting the tracks in the wrong location and had to laugh at that considering TTC lays the tracks after all the base concrete is pour with the placement of the man holes and vault location at that time. In some cases, the City layout the ROW wrong since they set the positioning of it in the first place.

It will be interesting to see if this section has an operation impact requiring streetcars to travel a a lower speed than the rest of the line. You may get that roller coast ride feeling. When the New LRT's start using this section, it will be a snake looking as it travels east.

This section should had been rebuilt.
http://davidfisher.biz/photo/2009/dec/2009_12_01/IMG_dec-01-09-0038.jpg

http://davidfisher.biz/photo/2009/dec/2009_12_01/IMG_dec-01-09-0028.jpg

http://davidfisher.biz/photo/2009/dec/2009_12_01/IMG_dec-01-09-0042.jpg

[lightrail]

I can't see there being any negatives from the trial.
It's on its own ROW (so it can pick up speed) and there is only one level crossing on the trial route (low risk of crashes).
There may be some overcrowding - but that can be chalked up to the Olympics.

Incidentally - look what they're discussing over at Urban Toronto regarding the St Clair Streetcar ROW:

Amazing what you can do with telephoto - it's most likely fine for streetcar operation.

[WarrenC12]

Amazing what you can do with telephoto - it's most likely fine for streetcar operation.

Sorry I don't think there's any excuse for that track. That's absolutely terrible.

[twoNeurons]

Sorry I don't think there's any excuse for that track. That's absolutely terrible.

At least on one of the pictures, the curves are exaggerated due to a combination of camera angle and hill slope, where the section would normally look straight.

[twoNeurons]

double post

[Zassk]

Even if the lens is exaggerating the problem, it's still incredibly shoddy work. Look at the concrete curb. It looks like a bunch of five year olds shaped it by hand out of clay. How many T.O. winters will that last? It's an incredible black mark on the overseeing engineers.

[officedweller]

The forummers on Urban TO said that the pics are a good representation of what it looks like in person.
You can see that one set of tracks is straighter than the other.

[tGill]

the streetcars at port of tacoma
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2743/4156360418_356d197117_b.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2572/4155603863_d05a54b6a4_b.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2630/4155616197_c87319a57c_b.jpg
credit: ydereky of flickr

[jsbertram]

the streetcars at port of tacoma

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2743/4156360418_356d197117_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2572/4155603863_d05a54b6a4_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2630/4155616197_c87319a57c_b.jpg

credit: ydereky of flickr

Am I correct in thinking only one trainset was shipped over?

[Zassk]

^ The youtube videos of loading clearly showed two identical trainsets being loaded end-to-end in the ship.

[mr.x]

Maybe, just maybe, if we pee on them the Belgians won't want their trains back.

[LeftCoaster]

I'm sure that will be taken care of...

[tGill]

Am I correct in thinking only one trainset was shipped over?
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2681/4155596207_28ac0c6bbc_b.jpg
credit: ydereky of flickr

[MalcolmTucker]

Or we buy Skoda streetcars because Bombardier can't deliver within the time frame we want.
If you don't care that the Bombardier Flexities are built in Thunder Bay, you could likely speed up delivery by giving no specific factory origin in the contract. Bombardier has plants that are capable of building flexities in Quebec and I believe New York. Can also build them in Europe somewhere.

Could also go with Siemens, but they have a reasonably big order backlog right now too (at least in the North America plants).

[WarrenC12]

Are there 2 trains in case one breaks down? The whole section is single tracked, so... :sly:

[metroXpress]

why can't they just ship it to Port of Vancouver ? :D

[agrant]

Are there 2 trains in case one breaks down? The whole section is single tracked, so... :sly:There is a small double tracked section. Not sure exactly how long it is.

[Canadian Mind]

why can't they just ship it to Port of Vancouver ? :D

Cheaper?

[MalcolmTucker]

Cheaper?

Maybe inviting some Sound Transit people over to take a look....

[SFUVancouver]

why can't they just ship it to Port of Vancouver ?


Two reasons.

One, the shipping line Bombardier uses does not call on the Port of Vancouver.
Two, the class of ship used to transport the trams is a "Ro-Ros", which means roll on/roll off, and the Port of Vancouver's Ro-Ros facilities are for designed to accept the delivery of cars from Asia and is not configured for the sub-class of vessel used by Bombardier's shipping partner.

Monday there will be an arrival ceremony and press event by the Olympic Village station.

I am so excited for this part of the Games!

[metroXpress]

^ that makes sense, thanks

[Kwik-E-Mart]

After looking at the actual pics:

Put them along False Creek S/Gastown/W 4th/Arbutus/41st? Sure!

Put them along Broadway to UBC? HELL NO!

[deasine]

Put them along Broadway to UBC? HELL NO!

I'm not going to say no to that IF there is SkyTrain underground =)

[officedweller]

Thanks for the pics!

[Vancouver_Highrise]

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e114/peterWEST/470_bc_streetcars1_091207.jpg
The first of two Bombardier Flexity streetcars is unveiled in False Creek. Dec. 7, 2009. (CTV)

New Vancouver streetcars unveiled in False Creek
Updated: Mon Dec. 07 2009 13:18:09

ctvbc.ca

The first of two Bombardier Flexity streetcars, which will operate for free in Vancouver beginning in January, 2010, was unveiled on Monday in False Creek.

The streetcars are the first 100 per cent low-floor vehicles to be used in North America.

"This is the latest state-of-the-art modern European streetcar design," Bombardier General Manager Steve Hall said.

The streetcars will transport passengers from the Athletes Village Canada Line stop to Granville Island from January 21 to March 21.

The service will run 18 hours a day, seven days a week -- for free.

"We want everybody to enjoy it and have fun," Hall said. "It's a demonstration for all the people in Metro Vancouver to see what this transit option is really like, to ride it, feel it, and have a sense of what could be possible here."

A permanent streetcar service, running 21 stops from Main Street to Stanley Park through the downtown core, has also been proposed.

Hall said he hopes the streetcars will help combat climate change by drawing people out of their cars.

"There's a whole wave of effort to make transit vehicles as attractive and comfortable as possible," Hall said. "Big windows, open, and comfortable."

The Flexity streetcars are on loan from Belgium's Brussels Transport Company and will run on existing Downtown Historic Railway infrastructure, which was upgraded for $8.5 million from the City of Vancouver.

More information on Flexity streetcars can be found at the Bombardier website.

[deasine]

Global TV Link:
http://www.globaltvbc.com/video/index.html?releasePID=wk_Sw6JrRT22Sa9JWT8JusbsSrxLrFxF

[Canadian Mind]

Seems to me the news broadcast about the streetcars had a slightly negative vibe to em.

[SpongeG]

global being negative? how can that be?