[Beltliner]

Some recent idle speculation in the Calgary Public Transit thread led to the thought of building a new stadium on the site of the Victoria Park bus barns. Though I don't foresee a successor to McMahon Stadium being built there, it might be a good spot for a nice little snakepit for the Vipers, similar to Autozone Park (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AutoZone_Park) in Memphis, or Principal Park (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principal_Park) in Des Moines, or Isotopes Park (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotopes_Park) in Albuquerque. Points I'm considering with this train of thought:


The footprint of a 12,000-seat baseball stadium is considerably smaller that that of a minimum-50,000-seat CFL pitch, making it easier to fit physically into the site;
Moving no more than 12,000 fans on 40 Vipers' game days would be far less likely to overwhelm the transportation infrastructure than 50,000-plus fans on 10 Stampeders' game days;
The LRT is already in place near McMahon Stadium, and already jammed to the rafters on Stampeder game days;
A new snakepit would be far easier to scale into the overall redevelopment of East Vic Park, and to tie into the redevelopment of Stampede Park;
Cultural and small business amenities would have a far better chance of developing organically adjacent to a site with at least 40 visits a year;
The hue and cry from East Village, East Vic Park, Inglewood, and Ramsay residents would be deafening in response to a new playpen for the Stampeders in the area;
There would be no space at all for Stampeders' tailgaters to set up shop in East Vic Park;

and last but not least,


Foothills Stadium is coming down the nanosecond after City Council commits to building the Crowchild-24 Street interchange.

I can see a pedestrian-scaled baseball park fitting nicely within the context of a comprehensive Railtown development. Now if only the Vipers were playing before more than friends and family, they might actually have a shot at promotion back to the PCL!

[Wooster]

Not part of Remington's plans so not going to happen. It will be a mixed use residential, retail and commercial neighbourhood. A ballpark is pretty land intensive and certainly not the best utilization of this site. Baseball is not very popular here either.

[Distill3d]

Isotopes Park (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotopes_Park) in Albuquerque

interesting idea. considering the 'Topes used to be the Calgary Cannons.


Personally a multi-use stadium would be a better concept (Soccer, high school Football) then a dall diamond. however, Josh is right here, its not going to happen, not there anyways.

[Riise]

Now if only the Vipers were playing before more than friends and family, they might actually have a shot at promotion back to the PCL!

That's the question, can baseball survive in this town? After hearing that little league was only having a 33% return rate I think it's dead in this city. Personally I'd love to see a new footy (soccer) park. After the city demolished Metawa Park the game hasn't had a half decent place to play, Foothills Park is pure crap. Last week I started thinking about a very interesting location and design of a new 8,000 seat football park. It's a project I hope to work on once the semester is over. Since I think the idea is so cool I'll spill a few of the details, it'll be part of a TOD redevelopment close to the core, combine two completely different land-uses in what can only be described as a radical mixed-use project, and I drew my inspiration from the very innovative Belson Stadium in Jamica, New York. Stadium Info. (http://www.sportsvenue-technology.com/projects/belson/)

[mersar]

The question though is the bus barns site part of the railtown development? Or is it simply next door?

If its the latter, if the city wanted to go this route (which I personally wouldn't expect them to try), all Remington could do is possibly complain, but thats about it.

[skrish]

interesting idea. considering the 'Topes used to be the Calgary Cannons.


Personally a multi-use stadium would be a better concept (Soccer, high school Football) then a dall diamond. however, Josh is right here, its not going to happen, not there anyways.

Agreed. This city is in dier need of a new soccer/multi use stadium. Baseball isn't popular enough to warrant a new stadium.

[krazycanuck]

Agreed. This city is in dier need of a new soccer/multi use stadium. Baseball isn't popular enough to warrant a new stadium.

They made it work in Winnipeg with a new stadium! The same could have been said about their involvement with baseball before they got CanWest park.

[krazycanuck]

Foothills Stadium is coming down the nanosecond after City Council commits to building the Crowchild-24 Street interchange.



I believe when the Vipers moved into foothills there was a 25 year lease signed, so the city couldn't tear down the stadium if they wanted to.

[walli]

Agreed. This city is in dier need of a new soccer/multi use stadium. Baseball isn't popular enough to warrant a new stadium.

Yeah ... we lost out getting Soccer under 20 world cup matches most recently, and that have been a long standing pattern. Has happened numerous times for various world cup qualifying matches. Edmonton get these things all the time. It is one of Calgary's biggest deficiencies!

http://www.canadasoccer.com/eng/U20WC_2007/index.asp?top=banner_legs&sub=9
"The FIFA U-20 World Cup Canada 2007 will take place from June 30 - July 22, 2007 in Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Edmonton, Burnaby, and Victoria."

How about change the WLRT TOD at that ugly mall into a stadium instead?

[Boris2k7]

Well, if we wanted to go by popularity of sports here in Calgary, we would be better off spending money on better curling and lacrosse facilities long before soccer and baseball...

I remember I was volunteering at the Brier a few years back (I was also in a junior curling league at the time) and had a chance to watch a bit in the Dome. Thing is, that kind of facility is pretty good for hockey, not so much for curling. The Winter Club is nice but a little out of the way. The Calgary Curling Club (I think that's what is called) is just across the River on Memorial Drive but it doesn't have much seating.

Meh, I dislike watching curling anyways, it's just that it is still more popular than soccer and baseball here.

[Distill3d]

Well, if we wanted to go by popularity of sports here in Calgary, we would be better off spending money on better curling and lacrosse facilities long before soccer and baseball...


Lacrosse is an outdoor sport, lets play it on our new multiuse facility

[walli]

Well, if we wanted to go by popularity of sports here in Calgary, we would be better off spending money on better curling and lacrosse facilities long before soccer and baseball...

We have two large soccer centre complexes that would suggest otherwise. How many kids 12 and under play soccer? How many play lacrosse? Soccer is quite possibly the most, or second most, played sport in Calgary! No joke! Every soccer facility in Calgary is over-utilized, and there is no premier facility what so ever.

[freeweed]

They made it work in Winnipeg with a new stadium! The same could have been said about their involvement with baseball before they got CanWest park.

This cannot be repeated enough. Winnipeg's ballpark is the envy of every minor-league team (and many of the majors, other than seating capacity!).

Baseball really sucks here because the facilities are terrible. I used to go to 15-20 games every summer in the 'Peg, but I've been to maybe 3 since moving here. Foothills is a disgrace.

Although to be fair, Winnipeg was pretty supportive of their team already, even when it was playing in the endzone of the Bombers' stadium. :haha:

The only real hit against baseball here is that the evenings are so darned cold. Show up in shorts, go home in a jacket. :(

[Boris2k7]

We have two large soccer centre complexes that would suggest otherwise. How many kids 12 and under play soccer? How many play lacrosse? Soccer is quite possibly the most, or second most, played sport in Calgary! No joke!

Most kids play soccer in fields and don't go on to be professionals. There's a big difference in facility requirements.

[skrish]

Well, if we wanted to go by popularity of sports here in Calgary, we would be better off spending money on better curling and lacrosse facilities long before soccer and baseball...

I remember I was volunteering at the Brier a few years back (I was also in a junior curling league at the time) and had a chance to watch a bit in the Dome. Thing is, that kind of facility is pretty good for hockey, not so much for curling. The Winter Club is nice but a little out of the way. The Calgary Curling Club (I think that's what is called) is just across the River on Memorial Drive but it doesn't have much seating.

Meh, I dislike watching curling anyways, it's just that it is still more popular than soccer and baseball here.

Curling may be more popular in terms of viewership, but in terms of participating it does not come anywhere near the number of registered soccer players within the city. This is why a multi use outdoor facility would be a better choice.

[Riise]

Well, if we wanted to go by popularity of sports here in Calgary, we would be better off spending money on better curling and lacrosse facilities long before soccer and baseball...

I think the biggest difference between footy and baseball in this city and country is the fact that baseball has already reached its peak popularity while football is no where close to reaching its peak, or post-peak stabilized level.

With regards to a multi-use stadium, I'm opposed. Why? Sightlines. A football match is easily ruined by poor sightlines caused by the presence of a track. I wouldn't mind lacrosse being included in a new footy park but I wouldn't include baseball or athletics. I believe the City and Stamps should invest in a new large scale multi-use stadium. It would allow the Stamps to play in a decent stadium and the city to host numerous events (both Athletics and International Football friendlies).

[Distill3d]

Well, if we wanted to go by popularity of sports here in Calgary, we would be better off spending money on better curling and lacrosse facilities long before soccer....

Tell that to Owen Hargraves....

[Riise]

Most kids play soccer in fields and don't go on to be professionals. There's a big difference in facility requirements.

That's because the Canadian Soccer Association and pretty much every Soccer Association or F.A. in Canada is shite and has absolutely no idea what they are doing. Calgary, as well as the rest of Canada, desperately needs infrastructure for the amateur level of the game. Crappy F.A. or not, we need the infrastructure! It's complete horse shit that due to there only being two indoor facilities I have to play games at 10:00 at night while the city is shitting out arenas like they eat a box of bran cereal a day.

[walli]

With regards to a multi-use stadium, I'm opposed. Why? Sightlines. A football match is easily ruined by poor sightlines caused by the presence of a track. I wouldn't mind lacrosse being included in a new footy park but I wouldn't include baseball or athletics. I believe the City and Stamps should invest in a new large scale multi-use stadium. It would allow the Stamps to play in a decent stadium and the city to host numerous events (both Athletics and International Football friendlies).

Football, soccer and lacrosse multi-use can work.

[Beltliner]

With regards to a multi-use stadium, I'm opposed. Why? Sightlines. A football match is easily ruined by poor sightlines caused by the presence of a track.

Not to mention the clash between football and baseball sightlines. Exhibition Stadium in Toronto was an exercise in making chicken salad out of chicken--errm, feathers when it came to accommodating both the Argonauts and the Blue Jays.


I believe the City and Stamps should invest in a new large scale multi-use stadium. It would allow the Stamps to play in a decent stadium and the city to host numerous events (both Athletics and International Football friendlies).

My inclination would be to refurbish and expand McMahon Stadium from 35,600 to 50,000 one grandstand at a time. Seems a pity they didn't follow through with the plan they'd mooted before the Winter Olympics to tack upper decks onto the facility--even though the engineering and construction would have been pricey during the mid-80s, and astronomically expensive these days....

[skrish]

That's because the Canadian Soccer Association and pretty much every Soccer Association or F.A. in Canada is shite and has absolutely no idea what they are doing. Calgary, as well as the rest of Canada, desperately needs infrastructure for the amateur level of the game. Crappy F.A. or not, we need the infrastructure! It's complete horse shit that due to there only being two indoor facilities I have to play games at 10:00 at night while the city is shitting out arenas like they eat a box of bran cereal a day.

Couldn't have said it better. People fail to realize that soccer is the number one particpant sport in terms of registered player (yes it is higher than hockey) in this country, but without the proper infrastructure there is no place for our ametuer players to develop.

[Bigtime]

Isotopes Park (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotopes_Park) in Albuquerque. Points I'm considering with this train of thought:

Am I the only one that is remembering the Simpsons episode when they wanted to move the Springfield Isotopes to Albuquerque? :D

I didn't know it had some basis in reality! Not to mention the Calgary connection!

"They'll play what I tell them to play. For I am the mayor of Albuquerque."

[mersar]

Football, soccer and lacrosse multi-use can work.

Quite well. We have a soccer/lacrosse indoor facility out in Cochrane (part of our regional sports facility which also has 1[soon to be 2] ice surfaces and a indoor track, gym and fitness centre), and the plans are to double it to 2 fields since its booked solid (numerous of the Calgary lacrosse teams use it for their regular practices as its a good practice field, but has just about zero seating). Guaranteed that if such a facility, with optimal number of seats is built it will be booked solid and barely make a difference in the overall demand for playing surfaces.

[IntotheWest]

Soccer would be cool here - it is very popular in Canada (yes, with fans...near 50k at Commonwealth a few years ago for the U19 Womens Championship).

We'll see how well MLS is supported in Toronto - that would likely be the only level that may be supported here to warrant a larger stadium.

[Riise]

Football, soccer and lacrosse multi-use can work.

Multi-use facilities can work but multi-use stadiums (all purpose in this case) are a different story. The Stamps are going to require a stadium with a capacity of at least 35,000, which is about eight times the needed capacity for footy, or outdoor lacrosse. I attended most of the Mustangs S.C.'s' games at McMahon and it was cavernous. Like I said before, this city needs at least two new stadiums.

[walli]

We'll see how well MLS is supported in Toronto.

All of their 14,000 season tickets sold out really quick. Their current stadium holds 20,000, and tickets are $30 to $100 per game.

http://web.mlsnet.com/news/mls_news.jsp?ymd=20070315&content_id=85697&vkey=news_mls&fext=.jsp

http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/t280/tickets/

[You Need A Thneed]

Am I the only one that is remembering the Simpsons episode when they wanted to move the Springfield Isotopes to Albuquerque? :D

I didn't know it had some basis in reality! Not to mention the Calgary connection!

"They'll play what I tell them to play. For I am the mayor of Albuquerque."

The Albuquerque Isotopes (formerly Calgary Cannons) were named after the Simpsons reference.

Regarding a baseball stadium - I'm totally against anything baseball. We need less baseball stadiums in this city. We should ban baseball from TV too.

I'd love to see a better football stadium, or a soccer pitch, or something like that. I don't know where it should go though.

[walli]

Regarding a baseball stadium - I'm totally against anything baseball. We need less baseball stadiums in this city. We should ban baseball from TV too.

Philosophically, I'm with you. I have a tough time with that 'sport'. In my mind, banning it from TV is nothing lost. Those interested in watching can simply tape a poster of a field to their TV screens :)

[ScottFromCalgary]

It's complete horse shit that due to there only being two indoor facilities I have to play games at 10:00 at night while the city is shitting out arenas like they eat a box of bran cereal a day.

Well there's a lot of kids that have to play hockey at 10:00 at night too. When I was playing minor hockey, my team had to go to Crossfield and Airdrie a lot of the time to practice because there wasn't enough ice to go around in Calgary, and that was 10 years ago! Growth in minor hockey participation has far outpaced arena building in the last few years.

[Jay in Cowtown]

and I quote Jim Rome... "Just go away Soccer!!!"

I'm all for a new baseball stadium, football too! I think Calgarians would show up to Viper games in a better facility like Winnipeg has, I would. And I know god damn well 50 000 would show up for Stamps games in a new football stadium with all the trimmings... providing it's not -30 out.

[walli]

Well there's a lot of kids that have to play hockey at 10:00 at night too. When I was playing minor hockey, my team had to go to Crossfield and Airdrie a lot of the time to practice because there wasn't enough ice to go around in Calgary, and that was 10 years ago! Growth in minor hockey participation has far outpaced arena building in the last few years.

Of course, there are already plans and on-going construction to at least partially respond to the hockey arena challenges. There are no plans in place for certain other sports. At the same time, there are several prime venues for hockey already, whereas there are zero for something like soccer.

[walli]

and I quote Jim Rome... "Just go away Soccer!!!"

I'm all for a new baseball stadium, football too! I think Calgarians would show up to Viper games in a better facility like Winnipeg has, I would. And I know god damn well 50 000 would show up for Stamps games in a new football stadium with all the trimmings... providing it's not -30 out.

I think the key for the next facility premier facility is that it could be football, lacrosse and soccer - whereas a baseball facility would only be for baseball.

You know - railtown was tossed up as an option, but Firepark is really the best option in my mind for a premier facility!

[Riise]

and I quote Jim Rome... "Just go away Soccer!!!"

And disappear like Baseball has? I didn't want to bring out my hate for baseball but I have to agree with You Need A Thneed, baseball sucks and needs to be banned from television! No offense to you, but it's because of people like you who are in senior and high up positions at Sportsnet why baseball, with its far inferior ratings compared to footy, is on so God damn much! Nobody freakin' cares about baseball, you hear me Sportsnet?!?! Take it off primetime, or at least the tickers because nothing is more infuriating then looking for a hockey or football score and having to wait a few minutes for the ticker to go through the billion baseball games that are played EVERY night.

[Jay in Cowtown]

And disappear like Baseball has? I didn't want to bring out my hate for baseball but I have to agree with You Need A Thneed, baseball sucks and needs to be banned from television! No offense to you, but it's because of people like you who are in senior and high up positions at Sportsnet why baseball, with its far inferior ratings compared to footy, is on so God damn much! Nobody freakin' cares about baseball, you hear me Sportsnet?!?! Take it off primetime, or at least the tickers because nothing is more infuriating then looking for a hockey or football score and having to wait a few minutes for the ticker to go through the billion baseball games that are played EVERY night.

400 games including playoffs this season on Sportsnet, good on em'...

Unless you had access to the Rogers Cable or American Satellite exclusive "Extra Innings"... most Canadians only had a handful of games available to them, mostly the Jays. Now there's plenty, and you can bet it's because of viewer demand.

I personally think it's great... Soccer fans have Fox World, Basketball has Raptors TV, now baseball fans have way more games because of Sportsnet.

[IntotheWest]

Baseball sucks. Can't stand it. Playing isn't too bad, but watching is terrible. Only in the US can a "sport" like Baseball and the World Poker Tour thrive.

[bob1954]

I realize that most of you folks don't care for baseball, but Calgary has probably the best climate in North America (summertime) for baseball! Warm and no humidity! Pro baseball has 81 home stands each year, if the stadium is downtown it really adds to the activity, resturaunts, nightlife, ect., IMO.

[You Need A Thneed]

I realize that most of you folks don't care for baseball, but Calgary has probably the best climate in North America (summertime) for baseball! Warm and no humidity! Pro baseball has 81 home stands each year, if the stadium is downtown it really adds to the activity, resturaunts, nightlife, ect., IMO.

Pretty good climate for baseball, except the the season is a little short.

I'm almost shocked how many anti-baseball people there are. I think I'm developing an allergy to it. I used to enjoy following the Expos a bit, but since they've been gone, I've payed less and less attention. Now I just can't stand it any longer.

[Xelebes]

Baseball sucks. Can't stand it. Playing isn't too bad, but watching is terrible. Only in the US can a "sport" like Baseball and the World Poker Tour thrive.

You obviously haven't seen cricket.

[Xelebes]

Pretty good climate for baseball, except the the season is a little short.

I'm almost shocked how many anti-baseball people there are. I think I'm developing an allergy to it. I used to enjoy following the Expos a bit, but since they've been gone, I've payed less and less attention. Now I just can't stand it any longer.

To be honest, it is part bungling by the MLB and the players. The exhorbitant salaries, the lack of enticing gameplay and the gimmicking of the game has watered it down over the last decade.

[walli]

You obviously haven't seen cricket.

Cricket is actually a lot more complex than baseball. Most of the people who make comments like this don't know all the rules, and generally speaking are baseball folks. As an example, the strategy behind hitting different ways to score different runs vis-a-vis the race against the overs - and the whole concept of partnerships. Fielding in cricket is also a lot more strategic and varied relative to baseball.

[Riise]

Cricket is actually a lot more complex than baseball. Most of the people who make comments like this don't know all the rules, and generally speaking are baseball folks. As an example, the strategy behind hitting different ways to score different runs vis-a-vis the race against the overs - and the whole concept of partnerships. Fielding in cricket is also a lot more strategic and varied relative to baseball.

I'm with Walli, cricket is actually a decent sport. Some might find it weird how I despise baseball yet enjoy watching cricket. One reason why I prefer cricket to baseball is the duration of exciting plays/moments. In baseball you can quite easily miss the homerun that wins the game and even a grand-slam can occur quite quickly. However, in Cricket these plays, hitting a century for example, build up and take some time to play out. In baseball you can't tell your friend who's in the other room to come watch the homerun that's about to be hit but you can when a cricketer is about to go for the century.

[Bigtime]

You obviously haven't seen cricket.

This man speaks the truth! I had the fortunate coincidence of being in India last month as the World Cup of Cricket was going on. That whole country was crazy for the game, but try as I might I couldn't figure it out(even with locals explaining it to me) or even get into it watching a game. I saw one amazing catch by a fat guy from Barbados but that was pretty much the only exciting part.

Hoo boy was India pissed when they got eliminated though! Burning effigies of players in the streets and demanding blood(or answers) for the shoddy play!

[freeweed]

I realize that most of you folks don't care for baseball, but Calgary has probably the best climate in North America (summertime) for baseball! Warm and no humidity! Pro baseball has 81 home stands each year, if the stadium is downtown it really adds to the activity, resturaunts, nightlife, ect., IMO.

Calgary has a terrible climate for WATCHING baseball. Even with the Northern League's much shorter schedule (40 home games ish?) it's damn cold at games during the beginning and end of the season. It's really only "nice" for baseball here for about 2 months - and even that's iffy. Going to a game when its 27C outside, and leaving when it's +10... how do you dress for this?

I'm personally a huge fan of watching live baseball, especially the minor leagues. It's relaxing, and most of the guys look like they're just out to have a good time - not bump their $15 million contract by another 10% next year. We don't have enough in the way of outdoor spectator sports in Canada - sorry, but the drunken screaming hordes at a football game get old very quick. I prefer my drunken hordes to be subdued and quiet ;)

I'd personally LOVE a pro soccer league in Canada, even though I've never really been into the sport. But watching outdoor sports in the summer is a ton of fun.

[IntotheWest]

You obviously haven't seen cricket.

Actually, I started typing that - and then thought I'd leave it just at baseball :-) All sports are personal preference, so, I retract saying "baseball sucks" - it does to me. Cricket is a game that can be played for days, with no real outcome (i.e. no winner)...that alone loses my interest.

Some argue British Football (yes, Premier league) is one of the most boring to watch, because 95% of games end with just one goal...Riise, you talk about missing the "grand-slam" in baseball - well, you have to admit, that its just as easy to miss that one goal ;-) (and hey, I really do like real football).

To me, I find any sport that stops/starts as frequently as baseball rather - well, slow. American (Canadian) Football is also like that to me.

Nothing compares to hockey (go Flames!), but soccer, basketball, and arguably lacrosse are some of the only sports I can actually sit down to watch.

[yads]

People fail to realize that soccer is the number one particpant sport in terms of registered player (yes it is higher than hockey) in this country, but without the proper infrastructure there is no place for our ametuer players to develop.

What you fail to realize is that the reason it has such high participation here and in the US, is because a lot of parents would rather have their kids playing soccer than football or hockey. This results in kids who don't really care that much about the sport after they are done with it. This is one of the reasons that soccer has never caught on as a spectator sport in North America. This also means that soccer will continue to be a low priority sport when it comes to funding.

[walli]

What you fail to realize is that the reason it has such high participation here and in the US, is because a lot of parents would rather have their kids playing soccer than football or hockey. This results in kids who don't really care that much about the sport after they are done with it. This is one of the reasons that soccer has never caught on as a spectator sport in North America. This also means that soccer will continue to be a low priority sport when it comes to funding.

Right ... that's why Toronto's new MLS team sold out their 14,000 season tickets so fast, and that's why qualifying games in Edmonton always get over 55,000 watching.

BTW there were 841,466 registered players in Canada in 2005, up from 483,686 in 1995. Your theory does not explain the amazing growth in popularity.

[Thunderball]

Right ... that's why Toronto's new MLS team sold out their 14,000 season tickets so fast, and that's why qualifying games in Edmonton always get over 55,000 watching.

BTW there were 841,466 registered players in Canada in 2005, up from 483,686 in 1995. Your theory does not explain the amazing growth in popularity.

Yep, its not soccer that is unpopular... its the quality of soccer considered "professional" that is unpopular. Why go to rickety Foothills/McMahon Stadium to watch some A-League/PDL duffers when you can go to the pub and watch Man U/Chelsea/Juventus/Real, et.al play?

MLS and World Cup qualifiers are the closest we can get to that level, and its actually pretty good. If Calgary got off their collective asses and scored some U-20 games rather than not actually bid.... you'd see how popular it can be. MLS might be the key to Canadian soccer taking off, since its a good level of soccer that is deemed top notch and will be televised. Hopefully Calgary doesn't sit on its ass and watch that opportunity fly by when/if it comes.

[walli]

If Calgary got off their collective asses and scored some U-20 games rather than not actually bid.... you'd see how popular it can be. MLS might be the key to Canadian soccer taking off, since its a good level of soccer that is deemed top notch and will be televised. Hopefully Calgary doesn't sit on its ass and watch that opportunity fly by when/if it comes.

The U-20 World Cup + the MLS team together resulted in Toronto getting their new soccer stadium. You're right ... the U-20 World Cup was a good opportunity lost for Calgary :(

[for those who are not aware, McMahon's surface is not appropriate for soccer]

[Riise]

If Calgary got off their collective asses and scored some U-20 games rather than not actually bid.... you'd see how popular it can be. MLS might be the key to Canadian soccer taking off, since its a good level of soccer that is deemed top notch and will be televised. Hopefully Calgary doesn't sit on its ass and watch that opportunity fly by when/if it comes.

I will agree with you that Calgary missed a big opportunity but I have to disagree with your view on the MLS. When will North America learn that a Professional League will not spur interest and help the development system because those two things are prerequisites for a professional league? How many failed attempts must we go through? We need a better youth development system and amateur leagues for the graduates to play in. There they can be spotted by top European clubs who can give these kids the first class professional training we cannot provide. After we start developing enough skilled players to fill a professional pool, and the interest has organically grown to form and large enough fan base, we can then consider forming professional leagues. Leagues that will grow out of mature amateur leagues. The EPL, Eredivisie, and even the NHL and NLL all had strong amateur roots before they were formed, how is football in North America any different?

The U-20 World Cup + the MLS team together resulted in Toronto getting their new soccer stadium. You're right ... the U-20 World Cup was a good opportunity lost for Calgary :(

[for those who are not aware, McMahon's surface is not appropriate for soccer]

I do believe they have field turf now, however, I'm not sure if its the FIFA approved type.

[walli]

I do believe they have field turf now, however, I'm not sure if its the FIFA approved type.

Well ... if it is FIFA approved, I would hope they would have tried to get one of the games here! My suspicion is that the field was not up to snuff.

[ibz]

Toronto's new field is being built with Fieldturf, so it must be approved for the FIFA U20, not sure if Calgarys is the same stuff though.

[walli]

BTW - just as we were comparing popularity of sports, and there was suggestion that baseball is more or as popular as soccer. Blue Jays game - 22,106 in attendance in a stadium built for over 50,000 in a city with 5,000,000 people.

[ibz]

You cant compare the two at all, apples and oranges. There are 81 home games a year in baseball...and the Jays last year averaged over 28,000 last year. Thats 2.3 million fans in the seats over the course of the season.

[walli]

You cant compare the two at all, apples and oranges. There are 81 home games a year in baseball...and the Jays last year averaged over 28,000 last year. Thats 2.3 million fans in the seats over the course of the season.

Good point. Without bogging us down in too much Toronto talk, I'll end by saying, perhaps a 30,000 stadium for baseball would have made better sense for them.

Back to Calgary, looking at the size of the site, probably only a medium baseball diamond could get in there. As my personal view is that a better soccer/football/lacrosse facility is needed, it is probably better filling this spot with more density. The new stadium can go in fire park.

[ibz]

A mixed stadium for Calgary would be allright, but I have no idea why anyone there would want to build a new baseball diamond, especially not one that holds more then 10,000 people. There is not a chance in hell AAA baseball will be returning to Alberta, and Im sure this experiment called the Northern League wont survive many more seasons. Even if it does, thats only a few thousand fans tops. Edmonton has a wonderful 10k seat ballpark in the river valley...too bad the only way to enjoy it now is watching a crumby baseball team run by clowns..its quite underused since the Trapper left.

[Jay in Cowtown]

Good point. Without bogging us down in too much Toronto talk, I'll end by saying, perhaps a 30,000 stadium for baseball would have made better sense for them.

Back to Calgary, looking at the size of the site, probably only a medium baseball diamond could get in there. As my personal view is that a better soccer/football/lacrosse facility is needed, it is probably better filling this spot with more density. The new stadium can go in fire park.

Not that Rogers Center is a dog or anything, but I'd bet more people would show up to games in a new outdoor park like most teams have... opposed to that oversized echoing culvert they play in now.

[CalgaryViper]

Well ... if it is FIFA approved, I would hope they would have tried to get one of the games here! My suspicion is that the field was not up to snuff.

McMahon's field cannot be FIFA approved as it has permanently painted football lines. I know that the Stamps pushed hard in favour of this are the primary tenant and this measure would save time and money. To keep the lines presentable on the old turf, it had to be repainted several times throughout the year.

Ottawa's Frank Clair Stadium can host FIFA matches as the football lines aren't permanent.

[Distill3d]

McMahon's field cannot be FIFA approved as it has permanently painted football lines. I know that the Stamps pushed hard in favour of this are the primary tenant and this measure would save time and money. To keep the lines presentable on the old turf, it had to be repainted several times throughout the year.

Ottawa's Frank Clair Stadium can host FIFA matches as the football lines aren't permanent.

f**king McMahon...

[Beltliner]

McMahon's field cannot be FIFA approved as it has permanently painted football lines. I know that the Stamps pushed hard in favour of this are the primary tenant and this measure would save time and money. To keep the lines presentable on the old turf, it had to be repainted several times throughout the year.

Ottawa's Frank Clair Stadium can host FIFA matches as the football lines aren't permanent.

If the McMahon Stadium Society really wanted to lay down a FIFA-friendly surface for a World Cup match, they could either install an unmarked FieldTurf surface or put in grass tiles à la Giants Stadium or the Pontiac Silverdome as happened in 1994. Given this town's prior support for the Boomers--um, errr, Kickers--um, errr, Storm--um, errr, Mustangs--

[/belabouring the point]

--in previous incarnations of professional footy, however, a soccer-specific facility scalable over the long term to MLS specifications might be a better fit--perhaps as part of the eventual redevelopment of the GSL site.

[Thunderball]

If the McMahon Stadium Society really wanted to lay down a FIFA-friendly surface for a World Cup match, they could either install an unmarked FieldTurf surface or put in grass tiles à la Giants Stadium or the Pontiac Silverdome as happened in 1994. Given this town's prior support for the Boomers--um, errr, Kickers--um, errr, Storm--um, errr, Mustangs--

[/belabouring the point]

--in previous incarnations of professional footy, however, a soccer-specific facility scalable over the long term to MLS specifications might be a better fit--perhaps as part of the eventual redevelopment of the GSL site.


Exactly... thanks to shortsightedness and ineptitude, we're missing out and giving Edmonton something else to shove in our faces. Typically, support for soccer in Calgary, despite the Boomers, Kickers, Storm, Mustangs, et. al meeting their demise has actually been quite good. I remember when the Storm were in the playoffs, it was standing room only at Foothills, it was packed.

These teams failed typically for four reasons, poor ownership, fly-by-night league, shunning by media, and poor stadia. I love watching soccer, but I have to admit, watching it at Foothills and McMahon was painful.

There really should have been a compromise on the fieldturf. If hockey and lacrosse can co-exist in the same venue, then surely football and soccer could have. McMahon would be fine for MLS/Int'l Soccer if it had proper turf. Not exactly scenic or memorable as far as soccer stadia go, but still passable.

[lubicon]

Crappy F.A. or not, we need the infrastructure! It's complete horse shit that due to there only being two indoor facilities I have to play games at 10:00 at night while the city is shitting out arenas like they eat a box of bran cereal a day.

First off the city is not shitting out arenas. Other than Max Bell there is no other ice surface currently under construction. There are several others under consideration (Centennial, COP) but they have not been approved yet nor has the money been found to build them. The city is currently 8-10 ice surface's short as it stands and we lost 2 arenas this past winter.

My kids play out of Bowness and our arena was shut down this winter due to a mechanical problem. I went to a meeting last week regarding the fixing of the problem and Dale Hodges was there. He stated that the next Leisure Centre the city will build will be in the NE (Saddleridge I think) and it will have soccer facilities rather than hockey. The next one planned after that will be in NW Calgary just east of the Royal Oak shopping centre and will contain 2 more ice surfaces.

[freeweed]

The next one planned after that will be in NW Calgary just east of the Royal Oak shopping centre and will contain 2 more ice surfaces.

That's too bad. That area is one of the few naturally treed bits of land in this city. We even had a moose family wander in last year. :haha:

[Riise]

f**king McMahon...

I concur! Fucking wankers! But none the less, Go Stamps Go!

--in previous incarnations of professional footy, however, a soccer-specific facility scalable over the long term to MLS specifications might be a better fit--perhaps as part of the eventual redevelopment of the GSL site.

I feel like a newb, what is the GSL site? I think I might know what it is. If so, you nad I are thinking about the same location which is a really nice location for a new stadia!

Typically, support for soccer in Calgary, despite the Boomers, Kickers, Storm, Mustangs, et. al meeting their demise has actually been quite good. I remember when the Storm were in the playoffs, it was standing room only at Foothills, it was packed.

These teams failed typically for four reasons, poor ownership, fly-by-night league, shunning by media, and poor stadia. I love watching soccer, but I have to admit, watching it at Foothills and McMahon was painful

You should add a fifth reason:

5. Lack of people, especially those high up in the hierarchy knowing a thing about football. Hence the lack of proper organization and structure.

We need to take a page from Australia's book. The state of the game down under was a hell of a lot better than it is up here, and their Football Association wasn't that bad. However, they did away with the F.A. and formed a new Federation. I truly believe that a partnership of numerous National Football Associations, such as the English, Dutch, Swedish, Czech, Brazilian, and Australian, should work with the Canadian Government on a study to form a new Canadian F.A. and path for the game in Canada. However, that requires vision...

First off the city is not shitting out arenas.

Maybe my wording was a bit harsh but their is a massive sporting bias in the city. In the last 15 years the city has only built two Indoor Soccer Facilities and the strain on them is massive! How much has been built and planned for hockey in that time?

Personally, I think the Calgary Minor Soccer Association should move away from Indoor Soccer and embrace Futsal. It's an indoor variation of outdoor football that is played on gym floors and without arena style boards. The game could be played in the hundreds of gyms the city already has and better yet, the game is actually better for skills development than indoor soccer! However, this change would require a knowledge of the game and foresight...

[Beltliner]

I feel like a newb, what is the GSL site? I think I might know what it is. If so, you nad I are thinking about the same location which is a really nice location for a new stadia!

The GSL Chev City dealership is what's sitting smack in the middle of the West Park concept area from the Centre City Plan (2007:65)--fifth page of the PDF (http://www.calgary.ca/DocGallery/BU/planning/pdf/centre_city/proposed_centre_city_plan_seven.pdf). Just west of the Greyhound depot and across from the Sunalta LRT station.

There's no statutory provision for a pitch on that spot, but if that's where you had it in mind to put your Jamaica project, it would be a peach of a location with a great river view.

[Jay in Cowtown]

That's too bad. That area is one of the few naturally treed bits of land in this city. We even had a moose family wander in last year. :haha:


I agree... build shit where there's ugly, bald, rolling hills... leave what few trees this city has alone!

[trueviking]

calgary and edmonton both recently had reasonably high level soccer franchises...both were short lived.

the goldeyes in winnipeg are definately popular, but for the most part people like to go to the ballpark...it isnt really a die hard love for baseball.

Canwest Global Park, home of the Winnipeg Goldeyes of the Northern League (independent AA)
opened in 1999, seats 7000.

the Goldeyes have had for the past number of years, the highest attendance among all 58 teams in the six independent leagues and
higher than 13 of the 30 teams playing AAA baseball.


http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/9744/untitled1am4.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/charliesballparks/stadiums/ph/canwest2.jpg
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/921/ball3gp5.jpg
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/5339/ball4rv9.jpg
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/1124/downtown69cn1.jpg

a decent ballpark in calgary would greatly increase interest in the sport, i think....both alberta cities have far more baseball history than winnipeg (AAA franchises) and it has become the place to be here because of the ambiance of the ballpark...it is just a nice way to spend a summer evening.

maybe losing AAA baseball affects the attendance for the present team....like the moose in winnipeg after the jets left...the downgrade in leagues made most people turn off.

Northern League Attendance Average

Winnipeg 6,504
Kansas City 5,852
Joliet 4,334
Schaumburg 4,268
Fargo-Moorhead 3,736
Gary 3,399
Edmonton 1,436
Calgary 1,088

[freeweed]

:previous: What's funny is that KC often sees as many people at its independent minor league game as at the Royals' latest snoozer.

There's something to be said for a bunch of guys making less than they'd make at Timmy's, just trying to make a living at something they enjoy.

And yeah, for everyone bemoaning baseball in Calgary, you HAVE to check out Winnipeg's park. It's an amazing facility, and full most nights. Helps that their summer nights stay above +5, though. ;)

[IntotheWest]

^And Hu's on First...not a bad place to eat and watch the game (go early though)..

[Innersoul1]

It is quite the situation that we are in here in Calgary. With the popularity of both soccer and hockey it seems to have pitted the two sports against each other which is unfortunate.

Soccer is HUGELY popular in this city, as is hockey. I am not at liberty to talk about hockey, but I will say that we NEED new arenas. As a teacher it kills me when grade 5 kids come to class tired because they had a 5 am hockey practice. We need arenas. That being said, soccer need fields, both indoor and outdoor. Calgary recently lost a major youth level outdoor soccer tournament to edmonton because of the low quality of outdoor surfaces. I would suggest that this is largely because many of our fields are shared by soccer and football. Seriously, our outdoor fields suck. I have played at a high level of soccer for some time now (Youth, Varisity and Club) in fact my competitive career was ended playing on a shitty field at Shouldice (torn MCL) so this accounts for my bitterness.

in addition to this we need indoor fields. I was choked when the partnership between the UofC and CMSA was broken off...that facility planned for the west campus would have been something else. The new bubble is a wasted investment. Good for the time being but iti is built on city land a nd will be torn down when that land comes up for development. Futsall is a good alternative, but I have trouble seeing it catchin on here. One would be surprised at the number of gyms in the city that don't allow soccer to be played.

....I have to leave work for the day so I will continue my thoughts later!

sorry :(

[bob1954]

Nice shot of Winnepeg! Thy've got a nice looking DT. NIce looking Ballpark too! I also like the location, it's great to have near DT. and or other central areas! And people think a nice ballpark in DT Calgary would be a waist!! It would add some energy to the whole area IMO!!

[craner]

Well ... if it is FIFA approved, I would hope they would have tried to get one of the games here! My suspicion is that the field was not up to snuff.

From what I understand the Field Turf itself was not the issue but the crown or drainage hump in the middle of the field was too high

[craner]

One little pipe dream I had was for a new football stadium for the Stamps to be incorporated into the "Bridges" redevelopment after the General Hospital was Blown up.
I would be agreeable to a new ballpark in the downtown area as well - bus barns, east village, GSL would all be good choices. But again, using east village land for a ball park doesn't likely make economic sense.
My hope would be that any new stadium remains "open air" - nothing better than a Stamps game.

[Innersoul1]

It is quite the situation that we are in here in Calgary. With the popularity of both soccer and hockey it seems to have pitted the two sports against each other which is unfortunate.

Soccer is HUGELY popular in this city, as is hockey. I am not at liberty to talk about hockey, but I will say that we NEED new arenas. As a teacher it kills me when grade 5 kids come to class tired because they had a 5 am hockey practice. We need arenas. That being said, soccer need fields, both indoor and outdoor. Calgary recently lost a major youth level outdoor soccer tournament to edmonton because of the low quality of outdoor surfaces. I would suggest that this is largely because many of our fields are shared by soccer and football. Seriously, our outdoor fields suck. I have played at a high level of soccer for some time now (Youth, Varisity and Club) in fact my competitive career was ended playing on a shitty field at Shouldice (torn MCL) so this accounts for my bitterness.

in addition to this we need indoor fields. I was choked when the partnership between the UofC and CMSA was broken off...that facility planned for the west campus would have been something else. The new bubble is a wasted investment. Good for the time being but iti is built on city land a nd will be torn down when that land comes up for development. Futsall is a good alternative, but I have trouble seeing it catchin on here. One would be surprised at the number of gyms in the city that don't allow soccer to be played.

....I have to leave work for the day so I will continue my thoughts later!

sorry :(

Sorry for my lengthy delay in continuing this. :)

As many of you have pointed out, although soccer is popular at the youth level, it has yet to catch on at a professional or semi professional level across most of the country. Exceptions certainly lie in markets such as Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal. It really is a shame that Calgary franchises such as the Kickers, Mustangs and Storm never really went anywhere or did anything. I think for the most part that we could garner enough support to have 10,000 spectators watch games. BUT we have been plauged in Calgary by a lack of suitabel stadia to support the sport. REALLY, when you think of it we don't have one field in the city that would be suitable to really support a franchise and its fans (the ones that come to mind are Glenmore, Foothills and Broadview and all of these are marginal.).

Calgary really does need a soccer specific stadium. One might say that we don't have a team so why bother putting one up? But given the number of major tournaments, and events that this city has forfeited it really would be a boost to, not only the sport, but the profile of the city.

Here is what I would like to see as far as a SSS for Calgary:

1) Stadium Capacity of 10,000-15,000 with room for expansion
2) Tight seating (ie seating snug to the field) for an intimate feeling
3) The seating areas should be covered
4) Press boxes
5) Some luxury boxes or space for expansion for the purpose of luxury boxes.
6) A FIFA 2-Star Field Turf installation
I will go into some detail on this further on.
7) A possible partnership with the UofC Soccer program

Let me start by saying that I am NOT a fan of Toronto's new BMO field. Personally, for the cost incurred to build this stadium I think that it looks pretty cheap compared to some of the new MSL stadia (70 million). I don't like that the main grandstand isn't covered. This is our national stadium and it is really MARGINAL! I like that there are press boxes and views are nice but it really is nothing special. I am torn witht he filedturf installation. This being the national facility grass would have been nice but I recognize the costs associated with this.

I think that BMO would be better suited for Calgary :notacrook:


I don't think that Calgary's stadium should be too large, mainly because of costs and the fact that it will not support a city team at this time. Room for expansion is a must. I like the idea of tight/snug seating so that every seat in the house is a good one. It was one of the things I hated about watching the Mustangs at McMahon, it really felt like an airplane hanger, not atmospher. Press boxes are a must and Luxury boxes would be a nice option and room to make more of them is a must. If this stadium and any future soccer franchises are to be successful then we need corporations to buy in. Luxury boxes are a great way to accomodate this.

The biggest thing is that this stadium MUST have a FIFA 2 star turf installation. Grass is just not viable in this city especially with our wonky climate. The cost to maintain such a field would be crazy. FIFA 2 star Turf is the only turf that Fifa will allow sanctioned games to be played on. It undegoes rigourous testing to meet Fifa's certification. So as pointed out, McMahon didn't opt for a field with the painted on lines possibly because of the costs to put in a true 2-star installation. CONCACAF now has 5 official 2-star installations and they are ALL in Canada (BMO Field is the newest addition). For more on 2 star installations please see the following links:

http://www.fifa.com/en/development/pitchsection/0,1350,9,00.html

http://www.fifa.com/documents/static/development/FIFA-guideM.pdf

I think that having a partnership with the University of Calgary would and could be beneficial. However, if this was to happen, the filed should be SS and used by the men's and women's varsity teams for games and practices. It can be said that this partnership might be bad as well a-la the Stampeders and McMahon, but at least at this point some of the costs would be absorbed.

Let me conclude by saying that a Canadian soccer league is viable, just not in the near future. I think that all attempts for a domestic league have been marginal ones. Cities need to buy in, this means having SSS that can support teams and make watching the sport interesting and comfortable Pushing the focus from large markets to some of the smaller ones may be a good way of doing this but not a necessity. Team in Victoria, Vancouver, Kelowna, Calgary, Edmonton, Regina, Winnipeg, Ottawa, Quebec City, Halifax and St. John's would be nice (obvioiusly some more Ontario teams could be added). But this demands commitment from all the cities involved.


Lastly, here is a link to the thread on BMO field from SSC. There is a good discussion on the stadium itself along with a domestic Canadian league. Be sure to see the discussion on pg 5 of Stadia that look way better than the one in TO and built for less ;)

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=405215


Sorry about all of the Spelling mistakes.= :D

[walli]

^^ excellent and thoughtful comments, Innersoul1.

With respect to your suggestion about it being affiliated with the UofC (and I agree), would not the current McMahon site be appropriate (IE when a McMahon replacement is built perhaps at firepark or the GSL lands)? It might even be possible to re-use some of the infrastructure there.

[Innersoul1]

Cheers mate!

Yeah, if and when a redevelopment takes place that would be a fine location. Even a redevelopment of the athletic fields at Foothills. If the project is done with the UofC i suspect that they would like something close to the campus, I don't think that the West campus is a good choice as it would be serviced soley by car as the university LRT is far away. I loved when SAIT did their expansion, they incorperated the soccer pitch in the middle of the campus. That really invited loitering students to enjoy games. i like the idea of the GSL site BUT I would prefer seeing that developed for something else. I think that if you were to put in a stadium there the site would be quite bogged down by parking. It is nice that the 10th St LRT is close though (especially with future expansion).

If the project is done with the UofC i suspect that they would like something close to the campus, I don't think that the West campus is a good choice as it would be serviced soley by car as the university LRT is far away. I loved when SAIT did their expansion, they incorperated the soccer pitch in the middle of the campus. That really invited loitering students to enjoy games.

[Beltliner]

...would not the current McMahon site be appropriate (IE when a McMahon replacement is built perhaps at firepark or the GSL lands)? It might even be possible to re-use some of the infrastructure there.

If memory serves, the Stampeders' owners (Forzani, Hellard, et alia) have a medium-term plan to expand skybox seating across the top 18 rows of the existing McMahon Stadium structure to lower overall capacity to about 30,000. Their first order of business seems to be to replace the locker room at the south end of the stadium, and to build a south concourse linking the two grandstands. Getting all this past the U of C and the McMahon Stadium Society will be the fun part, of course.... ;)

Over the long term, I suppose it would be possible to tack about 10,000 seats of club and upper-deck seating over each grandstand, though chances are you'd need even more skybox revenue to make that project even halfway affordable. The advantage to McMahon is that it's there, and that they actually built things to last in 1960.

[walli]

The advantage to McMahon is that it's there, and that they actually built things to last in 1960.

Yeah - something it shares with the former Berlin Wall.

That fact that something is there and is built to last, doesn't mean it should remain!

[Innersoul1]

Don't see McMahon going anywhere anytime soon. I agree that new boxes need to be added and the south concourse would be fantastic. It would be great if they could somehow widen the councourses, they are just sooooo packed. The dressing rooms are horrible. I have played 3 city championship football games there and couldn't believe that a CFL dressign room could look so bad (actually the visitors dressing room at the saddledome is pretty bad also).

Would be nice is some sort of roof covering the seating areas could be added.

And for Jesus Mary and Joseph, we need the city to allow big outdoor concerts there!

[Beltliner]

Yeah - something it shares with the former Berlin Wall.

The other, more pertinent advantage that I neglected to identify in my prior posting is that the McMahon Stadium site combines a central, transit-accessible location with a facility that even with a theoretically-feasible expansion would still be surrounded with the space to accommodate tailgating and other game-day activities. F-Troop were ridden out of town on a rail partly because they wanted mondo concessions to start a stadium site from scratch in some Bogforsaken inaccessible location out by the airport. If Foothills Stadium weren't a decrepit firetrap one hairy eyeball away from collapse, I'd suggest an onsite upgrade there as well, but rebuilding a ballpark on the bus-barn site, much like constructing an MLS-grade pitch on the GSL lands, would to my mind in any event allow for the establishment of intimate venues that would at the very least reinforce urban densification and create streetscapes for the resurgence of a downtown-area population.

I would suggest performing arts centres, but my pop took me to Cats once, and the actors backstage were all drunk, and....

[walli]

The other, more pertinent advantage that I neglected to identify in my prior posting is that the McMahon Stadium site combines a central, transit-accessible location with a facility that even with a theoretically-feasible expansion would still be surrounded with the space to accommodate tailgating and other game-day activities.

Of course, sites such as Firepark and the GSL lands also would provide existing or planned direct access to LRT, and central / accessible locations.

The part many of the McMahon supports fail to highlight is the limited events that are hosted there, precisely because of the facility limitations or the location. Think of concerts and various international events. How many days out of the year is McMahon used? How does that compare to, lets say, Commonwealth? What use is tailgate space when you only use the darn thing a dozen times a year?

[Innersoul1]

Urban diversification would be a good thing.....

....how bout a stadium built over the CPR tracks like the Original whitecaps design in Vancouver?

[Beltliner]

Of course, sites such as Firepark and the GSL lands also would provide existing or planned direct access to LRT, and central / accessible locations.

The part many of the McMahon supports fail to highlight is the limited events that are hosted there, precisely because of the facility limitations or the location. Think of concerts and various international events. How many days out of the year is McMahon used? How does that compare to, lets say, Commonwealth? What use is tailgate space when you only use the darn thing a dozen times a year?

The main reason they first ploughed under the grass at McMahon for artificial turf in the 70s was that a natural surface couldn't take the pounding from the Stampeders, Dinos football and soccer, Colts junior football, and various and sundry other high-school and recreational uses for football, soccer, field hockey, and other events. Usage at McMahon is not the problem. The Banff Trail and University Heights community leagues make it difficult at best for stadium rock acts like Disaster Area to use it as a concert venue (though given the hue and cry surrounding the 1970 Festival Express, they might have a case), but anyone seriously advocating relocating the Stamps to the back of beyond on the grounds that McMahon Stadium is underutilised is going to have to make a substantially stronger case than I've seen so far.

[Beltliner]

Urban diversification would be a good thing.....

....how bout a stadium built over the CPR tracks like the Original whitecaps design in Vancouver?

Could work as part of an overall redevelopment of the +30 space above the tracks, if it were scalable and if the superstructure could stand the strain. Bonus points if you could make it work over 11 Street SW, if for no other reason than it might actually trigger a grade separation there....

[Innersoul1]

I think that it would be a pretty complex undertaking but the final prodect could be soo cool! I love downtown stadia.

[Riise]

The GSL Chev City dealership is what's sitting smack in the middle of the West Park concept area from the Centre City Plan. Just west of the Greyhound depot and across from the Sunalta LRT station.

There's no statutory provision for a pitch on that spot, but if that's where you had it in mind to put your Jamaica project, it would be a peach of a location with a great river view.


Cheers, that was the spot I had in mind!


Sorry for my lengthy delay in continuing this. :)

As many of you have pointed out, although soccer is popular at the youth level, it has yet to catch on at a professional or semi professional level across most of the country...

Here is what I would like to see as far as a SSS for Calgary:

1) Stadium Capacity of 10,000-15,000 with room for expansion
2) Tight seating (ie seating snug to the field) for an intimate feeling
3) The seating areas should be covered
4) Press boxes
5) Some luxury boxes or space for expansion for the purpose of luxury boxes.
6) A FIFA 2-Star Field Turf installation
I will go into some detail on this further on.
7) A possible partnership with the UofC Soccer program

The biggest thing is that this stadium MUST have a FIFA 2 star turf installation. Grass is just not viable in this city especially with our wonky climate. The cost to maintain such a field would be crazy. FIFA 2 star Turf is the only turf that Fifa will allow sanctioned games to be played on. It undegoes rigourous testing to meet Fifa's certification. So as pointed out, McMahon didn't opt for a field with the painted on lines possibly because of the costs to put in a true 2-star installation. CONCACAF now has 5 official 2-star installations and they are ALL in Canada (BMO Field is the newest addition).

Innsersoul, I really like some of your ideas and simply love your passion! You are spot on about the need for a SSS in Calgary. Here's what I'd like to see, let's start off with some visuals:

Nene Park
Location: Irthlingborough, UK
Capacity: 6,441

http://ucalgary.ca/~daprevat/nene_01.jpg

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/park/yfh45/rushden21.jpg

SAS Arena
Location: Herning, DK
Capacity: 12,500

http://ucalgary.ca/~daprevat/sas_a_02.jpg

Belson Park
Location: Jamaica, US
Capacity: 2,600

http://www.sportsvenue-technology.com/projects/belson/images/Belson02.jpg

1. Style: Closed Square.
The park would be a mix of Nene Park (capacity and style), SAS Arena (style), and Belson Park (capacity-wise). As with any SSS the close proximity to the pitch and play is an essential element in creating that football atmosphere. The close square layout adds to that atmosphere by taking the shape of the pitch and enclosing the crowd creating a cozy park. The roof also protects spectators from the elements, you know the ones that show 10 minutes before kick-off...

2. Location: The West End (Greyhound Site Redevelopment Project)
It would be part of a mixed-use TOD development. After I finish my last group project I'll start work on a fantasy proposal.

3. Capacity: 6,000-8,500
The purpose of the stadium is to provide a home for amateur football and possibly in the future, be the starting and temporary home for semi-professional clubs. I've modelled my league system (see below) so that the amateur clubs would be similar to Football Conference clubs (Level 5-6 in the UK football pyramid) and PDL teams. Looking at the attendance of Calgary F.C. (The Storm), during the beginning phase the average attendance would be around 3,000. So with growth during the other phases local football would grow into the stadium.

4. Pitch Type/Field Surface: Natural Grass
Although I'm only 21, I'm kinda old school when it comes to footy. Why have fake grass when you can have the real stuff? Yeah, it might be expensive but without a doubt worth it! Part of the football experience is the smell of the grass. One of my fondest memories last summer was the smell of the pitch at The Valley and White Heart Lane. I think baseball fans would agree, natural grass is the shit! In addition, while type II Field Turf might be FIFA approved many top flight club teams and National Senior teams still refuse to play on it.

5. Tenants and Special Events: Premier Amateur League Clubs, Canadian National Teams' Matches & Friendlies, National & Provincial Championships, Collegiate Tournaments, Minor and Amateur League Playoffs & Cup Finals, Various Over-capacity Matches, and Semi-professional League (Future).


Let me conclude by saying that a Canadian soccer league is viable, just not in the near future. I think that all attempts for a domestic league have been marginal ones. Cities need to buy in, this means having SSS that can support teams and make watching the sport interesting and comfortable Pushing the focus from large markets to some of the smaller ones may be a good way of doing this but not a necessity. Team in Victoria, Vancouver, Kelowna, Calgary, Edmonton, Regina, Winnipeg, Ottawa, Quebec City, Halifax and St. John's would be nice (obvioiusly some more Ontario teams could be added). But this demands commitment from all the cities involved.

Sorry about all of the Spelling mistakes.= :D

I also agree with you that a Canadian League can be set up but only in the future. However, before we can even start thinking of a National League, major changes must occur, both regionally and nationally. First off, the game needs to be better organized so that progress can be made. For example, I've heard that Bronconcrete is interested in a new stadium but told the associations they must first get their shit together. Before we can build a pretty little park for amateur, semi-pro, or professional clubs we need a top-down restructuring. Changes would be both regional and local. I could go into great detail but I’ll skip the minor and youth leagues and talk briefly about the senior league structure.

The structure for senior league football, players aged 18 and over, would comprise of both regional amateur leagues and local Sunday leagues. For the latter, CUSA and CWSA could still operate but without the Premier and Major leagues, these would become part of the Amateur league structure. The Amateur league structure would have three levels, Premier (Inter-Regional), Conference (Regional), and District (Local).

The Premier level (Step One) would be the clubs that playing out of the SSSs and would attract the most spectators. Calgary would have two clubs and they would be the major tenants of the new park. This would be the league for skilled players that don’t make it to Europe and need a place to stay and play. It would give them a league where they could develop their skills and possibly eventually make the jump to pro-leagues. The league would also be the home for the elite players in the regions. Over time the league would split up and one part would merge with parts of other split Inter-Regional leagues, from around the country, to form a national semi-pro league. (This is how some Premier European Leagues got their start, even part of the NHL did!)

I’d love to go on about the other two levels but it’s getting late, in addition I would also like to do some more research so I can refine my ideas, and those who ever has managed to read this far is probably getting bored. Sorry for the length post, but I did include pictures! :cucumber:

[Innersoul1]

Riise!!! I love what you are throwing down mate!

SAS Arena is the stadium that I had in my mind when I was thinking about all of this. It is intimate, covered and looks sleek and modern. I love the lighting standards!

I am totally with you on natural grass fields, I love the smell of the natural turf but the one thing I love the most are the amazing mow jobs that the ground guys do. My friend made a samm soccer pitch on his yard in Bearspaw his dad splurged on nice grass and we would take turn mowing it weekly and trying to out-do each other.

http://www.forester.net/images/ec0201_52.jpg

I really like your idea about the league system. It would seems that CUSA would act like a feeder or development league for the major and premier teams. That is brilliant. It makes soccer at the senior levels purposeful!

Mind is numb now with thoughts of stadia! MMMMMM!

On a closing note, the Home Depot Centre in California is a pretty nice stadium. It seats 27,000 so a bit large for our needs but it is well concieved and pefect for expansion

http://www.jpmorganchaseopen.com/images/homedepot_photo.jpg

http://www.vanguard.edu/uploadedImages/PR/vtour/homedepotcenter.jpg

http://www.concacaf.com/competitions/goldcup/2005/downloads/HOME_DEPOT_CENTER/HomeDepot2.jpg
:previous:

Nice mow job too! :tup:

[Innersoul1]

I spent a good chunk of time reading about the U-20 Finals being held in Canada this summer. It really is a shame that we weren't on the ball for this. It could have been a great opportunity to showcase the city to soccer fans and expose a high level of soccer to Calgarians.

I was looking at the venues that will be hosting the games:

Victoria - Royal Athletic Park OMG this place is a hole!
Burnaby -Swangard Stadium great venue
Edmonton - Commonwealth should be great when it is packed
Ottawa- Frank Clair Awesome location should be neat
Toronto -BMO Field The crown jewel?
Montreal - Stade Olympique Not happy about this one....such a borning place but I am sure the fans will be into it

So let is be said that Edmonton, Ottawa and Montreal and the marqee stadia we could have easily trumped Victoria if we had had something worthwhile.

:(

[h0twired]

The only real hit against baseball here is that the evenings are so darned cold. Show up in shorts, go home in a jacket. :(

Herein lies the REAL problem. In Winnipeg people hang out in the stands and it is more about the social atmosphere than it is about the baseball.

Beer and food is reasonably priced, tickets are cheap, and you get to sit out in the warm summer evenings close to downtown watching a game in a top notch ballpark.

In Calgary the summer nights are far too cold.

[walli]

Herein lies the REAL problem. In Winnipeg people hang out in the stands and it is more about the social atmosphere than it is about the baseball.

Beer and food is reasonably priced, tickets are cheap, and you get to sit out in the warm summer evenings close to downtown watching a game in a top notch ballpark.

In Calgary the summer nights are far too cold.

Heated seats?

[Innersoul1]

Skydome part deux? :jester:

[Riise]

I really like your idea about the league system. It would seems that CUSA would act like a feeder or development league for the major and premier teams. That is brilliant. It makes soccer at the senior levels purposeful!

Mind is numb now with thoughts of stadia! MMMMMM!

On a closing note, the Home Depot Centre in California is a pretty nice stadium. It seats 27,000 so a bit large for our needs but it is well concieved and pefect for expansion...

I'm glad that you like my idea. It's the product of a little research on the football pyramids in England, Denmark, and Sweden. I'm trying to create a pyramid where teams can move between leagues/divisions and in theory make it to the top, similar to the structures in Europe. The system also needs to be able do adapt to allow the introduction of semi-pro and fully professional to the top of the pyramid. One of the problems with trying to envision a system that is structured around promotion/relegation is that cities in that type of system have multiple teams, however, in this part of North America most leagues are structured around single franchise cities. Anyway, it'll be a pet project for me this summer!

HDC is a top class facility! I only have a few complaints, the first row is set back a touch too far and a wee bit too high; and I heard they have benches as opposed to seats, wtf? Otherwise, I love the place!

[Innersoul1]

Benches just plain SUCK! :koko: